Re: pinnochio awards?

June 17, 2009

Lemmon wrote:

>

> ,

>

> I apologize that I got a bit emotional with my last posting to this

> group. I don't have the opportunity to take part nearly as much as

> I'd like in here.

>

> I am also sorry that you deduced so much from my e-mail that was not

> there. E-mails are basically just words, but emotions can, indeed, be

> portrayed through words-- and emotions can cause false assumptions to

> be made, especially when one doesn't fully agree with what the first

> party emotionally presented.

>

> I know nothing about you personally, , except that, like me, you

> are against forced vaccinations-- at least I am assuming that because

> of your membership on this list.

>

> It can be hurtful, to think that, not knowing me except for what I

> shared in my e-mail here, you assume the only place I get my

> information is from Fox News. We do not have cable or satellite in

> our home-- we do not watch tv. Nor is our radio on much. Shall I

> defend where I do my research? I don't know if that will matter at

> all-- besides, I'll say it again, this is not a political forum.

>

> We homeschool. We work hard to educate our children so that they will

> know for themselves the freedoms they will need to defend, as we are

> working so hard to preserve them today.

>

> I have studied and used homeopathy for years in my family-- it is my

> first medical choice. This is where my biggest worries lie-- the

> gov't's influence by the pharmaceuticals, etc. and what this influence

> will result in, once the gov't manages to take health care out of our

> hands here. Yes, homeopathy has been used successfully not only in

> the UK but throughout Europe. That is not under the threat of being

> taken away there as I predict it will be here, under a

> government-controlled health care system.

>

> I have a son with autism I know he got as a result of vaccinations.

> Homeopathy has brought him very far in his comeback. But he still

> requires a lot of my time.

>

> You seem also to assume that I don't know socialism. My dear, I have

> lived in two countries besides the United States, both of which run

> under socialism. I have seen it in practise first-hand. This is not

> what the United States was built on-- it is what it was built

> against. The very words of our Founding Fathers confirm this.

>

> In short, I have studied vaccines-- read documents from all sides of

> this issue (the only way conclusions can be drawn fairly). I have

> drawn my conclusion that I want no part of these, for myself or for my

> family. This is why I joined this list-- to be among like-minded

> people, to learn from you, to share with you, to feel companionship

> and strength when things happen. I hope not to convey such emotion

> when I have a chance to post again. I meant not to offend anyone.

>

> This is all I will say here.

>

> - Lemmon

>

In this environment we are all a bit sensitive!

June 17, 2009

I'd guess that most of us (or our children) have been burned by vaccs and/or amalscams, and at least in my experience this means a LOT of cognitive problems, inappropriate reactions, and screwy logic, although these are rarely apparent to the victim at the time. Since we're all in the same boat, more or less, it's important to be forgiving and avoid becoming the pong caused by the last ping. Or did I make a bit of sense?

From: shimmygrl8 <shimmygrl8@...>Subject: Re: pinnochio awards?no-forced-vaccination Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 12:07 AM

I just have a comment on 's post. You quoted the following: "I think socialized medicine is the only way to go.". I just have one question for you. Do you know what the definition is for socialized medicine? The definition for Socialized medicine is as follows: Socialized Medicine is a term used primarly in the US to refer to certain kinds of publicly funded health care. The term can refer to any system of medical care that is publicly financed, government administered, or both. Is that what you meant? If so, I one word for you: INSANITY. You must be out of your tree if you think that is the solution to the health care problem in the U.S. I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I think you crossed a line when you replied to 's post. Such harsh words. Hosea 4:6"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge">> ,> > I am not sure that your post doesn't deserve the Pinocchio award for the> emotional hyperbole and attempt to insert your political bias without> taking responsibility for doing just that.> > Some basic definitions seem to be in order here. First of all everything> in our public life is political and people have not choice about it. The > political social institution is simply the way people organize the way they> live together as a society. So as long as people live together in> community,> they will be political. Whether people try to play ostrich with head in> sand or attempt to

stay conscious or apply their awareness to activism> is the choice that we make as individuals. However, our choices are never> as 'free and independent' as we may like to credit ourselves. > > We are all the products of our environment and the type of education we> receive. > In our country, as in others, people are given the type of education that> supports> the economic system that exists. We are educated to not think. There is a> process of dumbing down the public's understanding and sense of> entitlements.> At the very least the public is trained to follow the leader and not take> action.> So your cohorts are being exactly the kinds of people they were trained to> be.> The education system was very successful. People don't research> information.> A study during the invasion of Iraq showed that people who get their primary>

news information from sources like Fox 5 Tv were the most ignorant of the> facts about that invasion. On the opposite end of the spectrum, those who> read independent news sources such as one can find on the internet, proved> to be the best informed people in the public. Is it any wonder they want to> shut down the internet's free access!> > As for socialized medicine, I am appalled at your lack of information. > What is> going on in the UK is the same development that is ongoing here: medical> fascism. How you can liken enforced vaccines to socialized medicine is> beyond > me except for your lack of real understanding. > > As for like-minded people here in this group--I think socialized medicine> is > the only way to go. Homeopathy has survived under the UK health system> for almost 100 yrs. However, the fascist creep ongoing, spear-headed

by> the Codex alimentarius is supporting the attack on this real health building> protocol and other holistic protocols. Vaccines there, as here, are being > pushed onto people in the most unhealthy and cynical manner. Has anyone> read the article on Bloomberg.com (6-12-09) that describes the Lilly drug> zyprexa being sold to senior citizens for dementia when they knew it had> no positive impact and is responsible for deaths? But the FDA approved> the off limits selling of this multi-billion dollar profit drug. If that> isn't > cynicism at work ............ .> > .And everyone on this list seems to agree that the enforced vaccination> program is > a form of corporate, via the government, coercion and medical fascism. An > article read recently indicated that the government has refused to question> the> impact of numerous vaccines, given many at

a time because a real study would> cause the program to falter once the public got wind of the horrific> neurological,> particularly brain damage that is caused by the ingredients of the> vaccines. This> is not socialized medicine at work--it is good old self-centered, greedy> Capitalism> doing exactly what that economic system does best--STEAL!> > So, please when you start to rail against socialism, get your facts> straight and > question your belief/prejudice systems before making comments that can only> befuddle any real discussion.> > > > > tamarque@...>

June 17, 2009

I'd guess that most of us (or our children) have been burned by vaccs and/or amalscams, and at least in my experience this means a LOT of cognitive problems, inappropriate reactions, and screwy logic, although these are rarely apparent to the victim at the time. Since we're all in the same boat, more or less, it's important to be forgiving and avoid becoming the pong caused by the last ping. Or did I make a bit of sense?

From: shimmygrl8 <shimmygrl8@...>Subject: Re: pinnochio awards?no-forced-vaccination Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 12:07 AM

I just have a comment on 's post. You quoted the following: "I think socialized medicine is the only way to go.". I just have one question for you. Do you know what the definition is for socialized medicine? The definition for Socialized medicine is as follows: Socialized Medicine is a term used primarly in the US to refer to certain kinds of publicly funded health care. The term can refer to any system of medical care that is publicly financed, government administered, or both. Is that what you meant? If so, I one word for you: INSANITY. You must be out of your tree if you think that is the solution to the health care problem in the U.S. I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I think you crossed a line when you replied to 's post. Such harsh words. Hosea 4:6"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge">> ,> > I am not sure that your post doesn't deserve the Pinocchio award for the> emotional hyperbole and attempt to insert your political bias without> taking responsibility for doing just that.> > Some basic definitions seem to be in order here. First of all everything> in our public life is political and people have not choice about it. The > political social institution is simply the way people organize the way they> live together as a society. So as long as people live together in> community,> they will be political. Whether people try to play ostrich with head in> sand or attempt to

stay conscious or apply their awareness to activism> is the choice that we make as individuals. However, our choices are never> as 'free and independent' as we may like to credit ourselves. > > We are all the products of our environment and the type of education we> receive. > In our country, as in others, people are given the type of education that> supports> the economic system that exists. We are educated to not think. There is a> process of dumbing down the public's understanding and sense of> entitlements.> At the very least the public is trained to follow the leader and not take> action.> So your cohorts are being exactly the kinds of people they were trained to> be.> The education system was very successful. People don't research> information.> A study during the invasion of Iraq showed that people who get their primary>

news information from sources like Fox 5 Tv were the most ignorant of the> facts about that invasion. On the opposite end of the spectrum, those who> read independent news sources such as one can find on the internet, proved> to be the best informed people in the public. Is it any wonder they want to> shut down the internet's free access!> > As for socialized medicine, I am appalled at your lack of information. > What is> going on in the UK is the same development that is ongoing here: medical> fascism. How you can liken enforced vaccines to socialized medicine is> beyond > me except for your lack of real understanding. > > As for like-minded people here in this group--I think socialized medicine> is > the only way to go. Homeopathy has survived under the UK health system> for almost 100 yrs. However, the fascist creep ongoing, spear-headed

by> the Codex alimentarius is supporting the attack on this real health building> protocol and other holistic protocols. Vaccines there, as here, are being > pushed onto people in the most unhealthy and cynical manner. Has anyone> read the article on Bloomberg.com (6-12-09) that describes the Lilly drug> zyprexa being sold to senior citizens for dementia when they knew it had> no positive impact and is responsible for deaths? But the FDA approved> the off limits selling of this multi-billion dollar profit drug. If that> isn't > cynicism at work ............ .> > .And everyone on this list seems to agree that the enforced vaccination> program is > a form of corporate, via the government, coercion and medical fascism. An > article read recently indicated that the government has refused to question> the> impact of numerous vaccines, given many at

a time because a real study would> cause the program to falter once the public got wind of the horrific> neurological,> particularly brain damage that is caused by the ingredients of the> vaccines. This> is not socialized medicine at work--it is good old self-centered, greedy> Capitalism> doing exactly what that economic system does best--STEAL!> > So, please when you start to rail against socialism, get your facts> straight and > question your belief/prejudice systems before making comments that can only> befuddle any real discussion.> > > > > tamarque@...>

June 17, 2009

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!!

Socialized health care will lead to forced medicine. If you don't like what the majority thinks because of the brainwashing from so called experts, to the ignorant and or misinformed......your SOL. Right now, the majority believes the so called expert. We need to wake them up and get them thinking for themselves. How do we do that? Many people don't think about these things we talk about. They don't care to deal with it. Do people even realize that your insurance gives you perks for taking drugs and getting vaccinated? I'm so sorry for a little venting here, just can't believe what has been going on in the last 6 months.

Can anyone here write down some specific steps to take, that will help all of us protect ourselves and our family's? I really don't want to offend anyone, so if you can correct me in anyway... I always listen to the other side. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree.....this leads to research and knowledge.

Thank you

JOY

From: shimmygrl8 <shimmygrl8@...>Subject: Re: pinnochio awards?no-forced-vaccination Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 12:07 PM

I just have a comment on 's post. You quoted the following: "I think socialized medicine is the only way to go.". I just have one question for you. Do you know what the definition is for socialized medicine? The definition for Socialized medicine is as follows: Socialized Medicine is a term used primarly in the US to refer to certain kinds of publicly funded health care. The term can refer to any system of medical care that is publicly financed, government administered, or both. Is that what you meant? If so, I one word for you: INSANITY. You must be out of your tree if you think that is the solution to the health care problem in the U.S. I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I think you crossed a line when you replied to 's post. Such harsh words. Hosea 4:6"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge">> ,> > I am not sure that your post doesn't deserve the Pinocchio award for the> emotional hyperbole and attempt to insert your political bias without> taking responsibility for doing just that.> > Some basic definitions seem to be in order here. First of all everything> in our public life is political and people have not choice about it. The > political social institution is simply the way people organize the way they> live together as a society. So as long as people live together in> community,> they will be political. Whether people try to play ostrich with head in> sand or attempt to

stay conscious or apply their awareness to activism> is the choice that we make as individuals. However, our choices are never> as 'free and independent' as we may like to credit ourselves. > > We are all the products of our environment and the type of education we> receive. > In our country, as in others, people are given the type of education that> supports> the economic system that exists. We are educated to not think. There is a> process of dumbing down the public's understanding and sense of> entitlements.> At the very least the public is trained to follow the leader and not take> action.> So your cohorts are being exactly the kinds of people they were trained to> be.> The education system was very successful. People don't research> information.> A study during the invasion of Iraq showed that people who get their primary>

news information from sources like Fox 5 Tv were the most ignorant of the> facts about that invasion. On the opposite end of the spectrum, those who> read independent news sources such as one can find on the internet, proved> to be the best informed people in the public. Is it any wonder they want to> shut down the internet's free access!> > As for socialized medicine, I am appalled at your lack of information. > What is> going on in the UK is the same development that is ongoing here: medical> fascism. How you can liken enforced vaccines to socialized medicine is> beyond > me except for your lack of real understanding. > > As for like-minded people here in this group--I think socialized medicine> is > the only way to go. Homeopathy has survived under the UK health system> for almost 100 yrs. However, the fascist creep ongoing, spear-headed

by> the Codex alimentarius is supporting the attack on this real health building> protocol and other holistic protocols. Vaccines there, as here, are being > pushed onto people in the most unhealthy and cynical manner. Has anyone> read the article on Bloomberg.com (6-12-09) that describes the Lilly drug> zyprexa being sold to senior citizens for dementia when they knew it had> no positive impact and is responsible for deaths? But the FDA approved> the off limits selling of this multi-billion dollar profit drug. If that> isn't > cynicism at work ............ .> > .And everyone on this list seems to agree that the enforced vaccination> program is > a form of corporate, via the government, coercion and medical fascism. An > article read recently indicated that the government has refused to question> the> impact of numerous vaccines, given many at

a time because a real study would> cause the program to falter once the public got wind of the horrific> neurological,> particularly brain damage that is caused by the ingredients of the> vaccines. This> is not socialized medicine at work--it is good old self-centered, greedy> Capitalism> doing exactly what that economic system does best--STEAL!> > So, please when you start to rail against socialism, get your facts> straight and > question your belief/prejudice systems before making comments that can only> befuddle any real discussion.> > > > > tamarque@...>

June 17, 2009

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!!

Socialized health care will lead to forced medicine. If you don't like what the majority thinks because of the brainwashing from so called experts, to the ignorant and or misinformed......your SOL. Right now, the majority believes the so called expert. We need to wake them up and get them thinking for themselves. How do we do that? Many people don't think about these things we talk about. They don't care to deal with it. Do people even realize that your insurance gives you perks for taking drugs and getting vaccinated? I'm so sorry for a little venting here, just can't believe what has been going on in the last 6 months.

Can anyone here write down some specific steps to take, that will help all of us protect ourselves and our family's? I really don't want to offend anyone, so if you can correct me in anyway... I always listen to the other side. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree.....this leads to research and knowledge.

Thank you

JOY

From: shimmygrl8 <shimmygrl8@...>Subject: Re: pinnochio awards?no-forced-vaccination Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 12:07 PM

I just have a comment on 's post. You quoted the following: "I think socialized medicine is the only way to go.". I just have one question for you. Do you know what the definition is for socialized medicine? The definition for Socialized medicine is as follows: Socialized Medicine is a term used primarly in the US to refer to certain kinds of publicly funded health care. The term can refer to any system of medical care that is publicly financed, government administered, or both. Is that what you meant? If so, I one word for you: INSANITY. You must be out of your tree if you think that is the solution to the health care problem in the U.S. I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I think you crossed a line when you replied to 's post. Such harsh words. Hosea 4:6"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge">> ,> > I am not sure that your post doesn't deserve the Pinocchio award for the> emotional hyperbole and attempt to insert your political bias without> taking responsibility for doing just that.> > Some basic definitions seem to be in order here. First of all everything> in our public life is political and people have not choice about it. The > political social institution is simply the way people organize the way they> live together as a society. So as long as people live together in> community,> they will be political. Whether people try to play ostrich with head in> sand or attempt to

stay conscious or apply their awareness to activism> is the choice that we make as individuals. However, our choices are never> as 'free and independent' as we may like to credit ourselves. > > We are all the products of our environment and the type of education we> receive. > In our country, as in others, people are given the type of education that> supports> the economic system that exists. We are educated to not think. There is a> process of dumbing down the public's understanding and sense of> entitlements.> At the very least the public is trained to follow the leader and not take> action.> So your cohorts are being exactly the kinds of people they were trained to> be.> The education system was very successful. People don't research> information.> A study during the invasion of Iraq showed that people who get their primary>

news information from sources like Fox 5 Tv were the most ignorant of the> facts about that invasion. On the opposite end of the spectrum, those who> read independent news sources such as one can find on the internet, proved> to be the best informed people in the public. Is it any wonder they want to> shut down the internet's free access!> > As for socialized medicine, I am appalled at your lack of information. > What is> going on in the UK is the same development that is ongoing here: medical> fascism. How you can liken enforced vaccines to socialized medicine is> beyond > me except for your lack of real understanding. > > As for like-minded people here in this group--I think socialized medicine> is > the only way to go. Homeopathy has survived under the UK health system> for almost 100 yrs. However, the fascist creep ongoing, spear-headed

by> the Codex alimentarius is supporting the attack on this real health building> protocol and other holistic protocols. Vaccines there, as here, are being > pushed onto people in the most unhealthy and cynical manner. Has anyone> read the article on Bloomberg.com (6-12-09) that describes the Lilly drug> zyprexa being sold to senior citizens for dementia when they knew it had> no positive impact and is responsible for deaths? But the FDA approved> the off limits selling of this multi-billion dollar profit drug. If that> isn't > cynicism at work ............ .> > .And everyone on this list seems to agree that the enforced vaccination> program is > a form of corporate, via the government, coercion and medical fascism. An > article read recently indicated that the government has refused to question> the> impact of numerous vaccines, given many at

a time because a real study would> cause the program to falter once the public got wind of the horrific> neurological,> particularly brain damage that is caused by the ingredients of the> vaccines. This> is not socialized medicine at work--it is good old self-centered, greedy> Capitalism> doing exactly what that economic system does best--STEAL!> > So, please when you start to rail against socialism, get your facts> straight and > question your belief/prejudice systems before making comments that can only> befuddle any real discussion.> > > > > tamarque@...>

June 17, 2009

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!!

Socialized health care will lead to forced medicine. If you don't like what the majority thinks because of the brainwashing from so called experts, to the ignorant and or misinformed......your SOL. Right now, the majority believes the so called expert. We need to wake them up and get them thinking for themselves. How do we do that? Many people don't think about these things we talk about. They don't care to deal with it. Do people even realize that your insurance gives you perks for taking drugs and getting vaccinated? I'm so sorry for a little venting here, just can't believe what has been going on in the last 6 months.

Can anyone here write down some specific steps to take, that will help all of us protect ourselves and our family's? I really don't want to offend anyone, so if you can correct me in anyway... I always listen to the other side. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree.....this leads to research and knowledge.

Thank you

JOY

From: shimmygrl8 <shimmygrl8@...>Subject: Re: pinnochio awards?no-forced-vaccination Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 12:07 PM

I just have a comment on 's post. You quoted the following: "I think socialized medicine is the only way to go.". I just have one question for you. Do you know what the definition is for socialized medicine? The definition for Socialized medicine is as follows: Socialized Medicine is a term used primarly in the US to refer to certain kinds of publicly funded health care. The term can refer to any system of medical care that is publicly financed, government administered, or both. Is that what you meant? If so, I one word for you: INSANITY. You must be out of your tree if you think that is the solution to the health care problem in the U.S. I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I think you crossed a line when you replied to 's post. Such harsh words. Hosea 4:6"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge">> ,> > I am not sure that your post doesn't deserve the Pinocchio award for the> emotional hyperbole and attempt to insert your political bias without> taking responsibility for doing just that.> > Some basic definitions seem to be in order here. First of all everything> in our public life is political and people have not choice about it. The > political social institution is simply the way people organize the way they> live together as a society. So as long as people live together in> community,> they will be political. Whether people try to play ostrich with head in> sand or attempt to

stay conscious or apply their awareness to activism> is the choice that we make as individuals. However, our choices are never> as 'free and independent' as we may like to credit ourselves. > > We are all the products of our environment and the type of education we> receive. > In our country, as in others, people are given the type of education that> supports> the economic system that exists. We are educated to not think. There is a> process of dumbing down the public's understanding and sense of> entitlements.> At the very least the public is trained to follow the leader and not take> action.> So your cohorts are being exactly the kinds of people they were trained to> be.> The education system was very successful. People don't research> information.> A study during the invasion of Iraq showed that people who get their primary>

news information from sources like Fox 5 Tv were the most ignorant of the> facts about that invasion. On the opposite end of the spectrum, those who> read independent news sources such as one can find on the internet, proved> to be the best informed people in the public. Is it any wonder they want to> shut down the internet's free access!> > As for socialized medicine, I am appalled at your lack of information. > What is> going on in the UK is the same development that is ongoing here: medical> fascism. How you can liken enforced vaccines to socialized medicine is> beyond > me except for your lack of real understanding. > > As for like-minded people here in this group--I think socialized medicine> is > the only way to go. Homeopathy has survived under the UK health system> for almost 100 yrs. However, the fascist creep ongoing, spear-headed

by> the Codex alimentarius is supporting the attack on this real health building> protocol and other holistic protocols. Vaccines there, as here, are being > pushed onto people in the most unhealthy and cynical manner. Has anyone> read the article on Bloomberg.com (6-12-09) that describes the Lilly drug> zyprexa being sold to senior citizens for dementia when they knew it had> no positive impact and is responsible for deaths? But the FDA approved> the off limits selling of this multi-billion dollar profit drug. If that> isn't > cynicism at work ............ .> > .And everyone on this list seems to agree that the enforced vaccination> program is > a form of corporate, via the government, coercion and medical fascism. An > article read recently indicated that the government has refused to question> the> impact of numerous vaccines, given many at

a time because a real study would> cause the program to falter once the public got wind of the horrific> neurological,> particularly brain damage that is caused by the ingredients of the> vaccines. This> is not socialized medicine at work--it is good old self-centered, greedy> Capitalism> doing exactly what that economic system does best--STEAL!> > So, please when you start to rail against socialism, get your facts> straight and > question your belief/prejudice systems before making comments that can only> befuddle any real discussion.> > > > > tamarque@...>

June 17, 2009

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!!

Socialized health care will lead to forced medicine. If you don't like what the majority thinks because of the brainwashing from so called experts, to the ignorant and or misinformed......your SOL. Right now, the majority believes the so called expert. We need to wake them up and get them thinking for themselves. How do we do that? Many people don't think about these things we talk about. They don't care to deal with it. Do people even realize that your insurance gives you perks for taking drugs and getting vaccinated? I'm so sorry for a little venting here, just can't believe what has been going on in the last 6 months.

Can anyone here write down some specific steps to take, that will help all of us protect ourselves and our family's? I really don't want to offend anyone, so if you can correct me in anyway... I always listen to the other side. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree.....this leads to research and knowledge.

Thank you

JOY

From: shimmygrl8 <shimmygrl8@...>Subject: Re: pinnochio awards?no-forced-vaccination Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 12:07 PM

I just have a comment on 's post. You quoted the following: "I think socialized medicine is the only way to go.". I just have one question for you. Do you know what the definition is for socialized medicine? The definition for Socialized medicine is as follows: Socialized Medicine is a term used primarly in the US to refer to certain kinds of publicly funded health care. The term can refer to any system of medical care that is publicly financed, government administered, or both. Is that what you meant? If so, I one word for you: INSANITY. You must be out of your tree if you think that is the solution to the health care problem in the U.S. I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I think you crossed a line when you replied to 's post. Such harsh words. Hosea 4:6"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge">> ,> > I am not sure that your post doesn't deserve the Pinocchio award for the> emotional hyperbole and attempt to insert your political bias without> taking responsibility for doing just that.> > Some basic definitions seem to be in order here. First of all everything> in our public life is political and people have not choice about it. The > political social institution is simply the way people organize the way they> live together as a society. So as long as people live together in> community,> they will be political. Whether people try to play ostrich with head in> sand or attempt to

stay conscious or apply their awareness to activism> is the choice that we make as individuals. However, our choices are never> as 'free and independent' as we may like to credit ourselves. > > We are all the products of our environment and the type of education we> receive. > In our country, as in others, people are given the type of education that> supports> the economic system that exists. We are educated to not think. There is a> process of dumbing down the public's understanding and sense of> entitlements.> At the very least the public is trained to follow the leader and not take> action.> So your cohorts are being exactly the kinds of people they were trained to> be.> The education system was very successful. People don't research> information.> A study during the invasion of Iraq showed that people who get their primary>

news information from sources like Fox 5 Tv were the most ignorant of the> facts about that invasion. On the opposite end of the spectrum, those who> read independent news sources such as one can find on the internet, proved> to be the best informed people in the public. Is it any wonder they want to> shut down the internet's free access!> > As for socialized medicine, I am appalled at your lack of information. > What is> going on in the UK is the same development that is ongoing here: medical> fascism. How you can liken enforced vaccines to socialized medicine is> beyond > me except for your lack of real understanding. > > As for like-minded people here in this group--I think socialized medicine> is > the only way to go. Homeopathy has survived under the UK health system> for almost 100 yrs. However, the fascist creep ongoing, spear-headed

by> the Codex alimentarius is supporting the attack on this real health building> protocol and other holistic protocols. Vaccines there, as here, are being > pushed onto people in the most unhealthy and cynical manner. Has anyone> read the article on Bloomberg.com (6-12-09) that describes the Lilly drug> zyprexa being sold to senior citizens for dementia when they knew it had> no positive impact and is responsible for deaths? But the FDA approved> the off limits selling of this multi-billion dollar profit drug. If that> isn't > cynicism at work ............ .> > .And everyone on this list seems to agree that the enforced vaccination> program is > a form of corporate, via the government, coercion and medical fascism. An > article read recently indicated that the government has refused to question> the> impact of numerous vaccines, given many at

a time because a real study would> cause the program to falter once the public got wind of the horrific> neurological,> particularly brain damage that is caused by the ingredients of the> vaccines. This> is not socialized medicine at work--it is good old self-centered, greedy> Capitalism> doing exactly what that economic system does best--STEAL!> > So, please when you start to rail against socialism, get your facts> straight and > question your belief/prejudice systems before making comments that can only> befuddle any real discussion.> > > > > tamarque@...>

June 18, 2009

Thanks

Tiffane Coe

(410)371-0076

Customhealth4you.com

From: tiffane coe <imacajunqueen2>Subject: Re: [no-forced-vaccinat ion] pinnochio awards?no-forced-vaccinati ongroups (DOT) comDate: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 1:55 PM

Sorry for the repost but the annoying little

ad is in the way and the previous post

can't be read so here it is below:)

Okay, I happened to read this reply

to an earlier post

(would very much like to see the original post).

I must have missed it.

While I totally agree with that

it is corporate greed at work not s

ocialized medicine, I have to say as

a person who believed in national health

care of some sort (before I learned of the

flat out genocide being waged against us

through the current system). I now would

be absoultely HORRIFIED to have this lying

crooked murderous government in charge of a

"New and Improved" health care system for all.

I have to say I'd probably have to go

underground to find a naturopathic doctor even

if I had to pay (they very seldom are involved

with any of the state health insurance programs if at all).

Because they know they won't get paid, which is why

many doctors won't accept these forms of coverage.

The deadly vaccine scam and all of the other genocidal

attrocities being committed by the Medical Industrial

Complex COULDN'T BE accomplished without a crooked

government willing to allow it for whatever reason be it money

or population reduction.

THIS IS ABOUT SO MUCH MORE THAN JUST MONEY

Yes I agree there are cracks to be fallen through and I should know. I have no insurance I'm one of those people who can't sick. There's no where for me to go. (That's why I have chosen to keep my self well through food as medicine and custom nutrition). My daughter has insurance through the state but I don't qualify. Even still we only use it in emergencies.

The bottom line I guess is that I see both sides. I COULD NEVER TRUST GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE knowing that they are intentionally killing people now and have been for decades. But that's just me.

Tiffane Coe

(410)371-0076

Customhealth4you. com

June 18, 2009

Thanks

Tiffane Coe

(410)371-0076

Customhealth4you.com

From: tiffane coe <imacajunqueen2>Subject: Re: [no-forced-vaccinat ion] pinnochio awards?no-forced-vaccinati ongroups (DOT) comDate: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 1:55 PM

Sorry for the repost but the annoying little

ad is in the way and the previous post

can't be read so here it is below:)

Okay, I happened to read this reply

to an earlier post

(would very much like to see the original post).

I must have missed it.

While I totally agree with that

it is corporate greed at work not s

ocialized medicine, I have to say as

a person who believed in national health

care of some sort (before I learned of the

flat out genocide being waged against us

through the current system). I now would

be absoultely HORRIFIED to have this lying

crooked murderous government in charge of a

"New and Improved" health care system for all.

I have to say I'd probably have to go

underground to find a naturopathic doctor even

if I had to pay (they very seldom are involved

with any of the state health insurance programs if at all).

Because they know they won't get paid, which is why

many doctors won't accept these forms of coverage.

The deadly vaccine scam and all of the other genocidal

attrocities being committed by the Medical Industrial

Complex COULDN'T BE accomplished without a crooked

government willing to allow it for whatever reason be it money

or population reduction.

THIS IS ABOUT SO MUCH MORE THAN JUST MONEY

Yes I agree there are cracks to be fallen through and I should know. I have no insurance I'm one of those people who can't sick. There's no where for me to go. (That's why I have chosen to keep my self well through food as medicine and custom nutrition). My daughter has insurance through the state but I don't qualify. Even still we only use it in emergencies.

The bottom line I guess is that I see both sides. I COULD NEVER TRUST GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE knowing that they are intentionally killing people now and have been for decades. But that's just me.

Tiffane Coe

(410)371-0076

Customhealth4you. com

June 18, 2009

Thanks

Tiffane Coe

(410)371-0076

Customhealth4you.com

From: tiffane coe <imacajunqueen2>Subject: Re: [no-forced-vaccinat ion] pinnochio awards?no-forced-vaccinati ongroups (DOT) comDate: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 1:55 PM

Sorry for the repost but the annoying little

ad is in the way and the previous post

can't be read so here it is below:)

Okay, I happened to read this reply

to an earlier post

(would very much like to see the original post).

I must have missed it.

While I totally agree with that

it is corporate greed at work not s

ocialized medicine, I have to say as

a person who believed in national health

care of some sort (before I learned of the

flat out genocide being waged against us

through the current system). I now would

be absoultely HORRIFIED to have this lying

crooked murderous government in charge of a

"New and Improved" health care system for all.

I have to say I'd probably have to go

underground to find a naturopathic doctor even

if I had to pay (they very seldom are involved

with any of the state health insurance programs if at all).

Because they know they won't get paid, which is why

many doctors won't accept these forms of coverage.

The deadly vaccine scam and all of the other genocidal

attrocities being committed by the Medical Industrial

Complex COULDN'T BE accomplished without a crooked

government willing to allow it for whatever reason be it money

or population reduction.

THIS IS ABOUT SO MUCH MORE THAN JUST MONEY

Yes I agree there are cracks to be fallen through and I should know. I have no insurance I'm one of those people who can't sick. There's no where for me to go. (That's why I have chosen to keep my self well through food as medicine and custom nutrition). My daughter has insurance through the state but I don't qualify. Even still we only use it in emergencies.

The bottom line I guess is that I see both sides. I COULD NEVER TRUST GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE knowing that they are intentionally killing people now and have been for decades. But that's just me.

Tiffane Coe

(410)371-0076

Customhealth4you. com

June 18, 2009

Thanks

Tiffane Coe

(410)371-0076

Customhealth4you.com

From: tiffane coe <imacajunqueen2>Subject: Re: [no-forced-vaccinat ion] pinnochio awards?no-forced-vaccinati ongroups (DOT) comDate: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 1:55 PM

Sorry for the repost but the annoying little

ad is in the way and the previous post

can't be read so here it is below:)

Okay, I happened to read this reply

to an earlier post

(would very much like to see the original post).

I must have missed it.

While I totally agree with that

it is corporate greed at work not s

ocialized medicine, I have to say as

a person who believed in national health

care of some sort (before I learned of the

flat out genocide being waged against us

through the current system). I now would

be absoultely HORRIFIED to have this lying

crooked murderous government in charge of a

"New and Improved" health care system for all.

I have to say I'd probably have to go

underground to find a naturopathic doctor even

if I had to pay (they very seldom are involved

with any of the state health insurance programs if at all).

Because they know they won't get paid, which is why

many doctors won't accept these forms of coverage.

The deadly vaccine scam and all of the other genocidal

attrocities being committed by the Medical Industrial

Complex COULDN'T BE accomplished without a crooked

government willing to allow it for whatever reason be it money

or population reduction.

THIS IS ABOUT SO MUCH MORE THAN JUST MONEY

Yes I agree there are cracks to be fallen through and I should know. I have no insurance I'm one of those people who can't sick. There's no where for me to go. (That's why I have chosen to keep my self well through food as medicine and custom nutrition). My daughter has insurance through the state but I don't qualify. Even still we only use it in emergencies.

The bottom line I guess is that I see both sides. I COULD NEVER TRUST GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE knowing that they are intentionally killing people now and have been for decades. But that's just me.

Tiffane Coe

(410)371-0076

Customhealth4you. com

June 18, 2009

,

Let me assure you that your well-balanced contributions are highly appreciated and that nothing in your post could possibly be construed as "an attempt to insert your political bias" or "to befuddle any real discussion" and did most certainly not warrant such a rude and appalling response.

Constructive criticism and debate are most welcome, verbal abuse and belittling exercises of other list members will not be tolerated.

For information and educational purposes of those who have not grasped or experienced the flawed and fraudulent concept of socialism yet, please read the excellent article by Byron J. s pasted below.

Ingrid Blank

Moderator

OBAMA SNUCK SOCIALIST HEALTH CARE REFORM IN THE STIMULUS BILL

By Byron J. s, CCNFebruary 13, 2009

Under the cover of emergency economic legislation the front wave of an entire new system of health care is being pushed on Americans. The strategy for this ploy was once explained by Obama’s former appointee to head the Department of Health and Human Services, and now exposed tax cheat, Senator Tom Daschle. Daschle spells out the plan on pages 196-197 of his book, Critical – What We Can Do About the Health Care Crisis, “The next president should act immediately to capitalize on the goodwill that greets any incoming administration. If that means attaching a health-care plan to the federal budget, so be it. This issue is too important to be stalled by Senate protocol.” In other words, public debate should be avoided, forget about democracy – so that Obama-care does not meet the same fate as Hillary-care.

In the last few days a debate on this issue has blown up on national TV, talk radio, and the internet. It began with an article published on Bloomberg titled, “Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan” by Betsy McCaughey. McCaughey says the plan could be used to ration care to the elderly, putting government, not doctors, in charge of what care will be delivered. She has been interviewed on Lou Dobbs and Glenn Beck. Fox News, the Drudge Report, and even Rush Limbaugh have spread the news. Limbaugh warned his listening audience that their patient privacy was at stake and that “Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system.” The bottom line of their messages: quality of care and type of care will not be determined by the doctor, but rather by a new system of cost containment implemented by the federal government.

Democrats have found themselves on the defense. While getting grilled on FOX news Sen. Ben Cardin (D-Md.) said, “There is nothing in this legislation that interferes with a doctor making a decision, with the patient, on what is appropriate care. What is in this legislation is an effort to make sure we share information – generically, appropriately – so doctors and medical providers can have the best information, but there’s nothing in this bill that compromises the decision-making between the doctor and the patient.”

Democratic websites have attacked McCaughey, saying she is reading more into the bill than is actually there. She has fired back, saying the health-care language in the bill has nothing whatsoever to do with new jobs and jump starting the economy. She says, “Americans deserve an open and honest debate about creating a federal healthcare infrastructure of this magnitude. These health provisions should be removed from the stimulus bill and offered to Congress in separate legislation.”

We even have Gottlieb getting into the discussion, the former second in command at the FDA, who during his time at the FDA advocated the industry-friendly position that Americans should be exposed to dangerous and expensive drug experiments and have no right to recourse if they are injured. Now he says, “The bill will be used to create guidelines to direct doctors’ treatment of difficult, high-cost medical problems.” His statement means that Big Pharma and Big Biotech are really concerned that their future cash-cow experiments may not be covered by the new plan.

Indeed, Big Pharma was really upset about parts of the plan that called for spending government money to try and compare the effectiveness of drugs, one to another. This provision has now been changed based on intense lobbying over the past few days. Such a provision would have been really bad news for Big Pharma, as it would quickly be discovered that their drugs hardly work at all to produce positive health outcomes, especially in preventive medicine. For a more comprehensive understanding of Big Pharma in relation to the health care handouts in this bill, read my article “Is Obama Bailing Out Big Pharma’s Bursting Bubble.”

The Hill website reported in early December that Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.) wanted health IT in the stimulus bill to help avoid a fight on healthcare early in 2009 when lawmakers were drafting broader healthcare legislation. “There are going to be certain costs of healthcare reform — upfront costs. If I can put some of those upfront costs in the so-called stimulus bill, I’d rather put them there….We’ve got to create a very significant upfront effort early on and keep the momentum going on healthcare,” said Baucus, who added he was in regular contact with the Obama team, Kennedy and other key lawmakers.

Several things are certain. Health IT has nothing to do with meaningful stimulus for the economy. It is in the stimulus bill to get its own financial stimulus, helping to jump start Obama-care without any public debate.

The Scope of Obama’s Health IT

In the 680 page House version of the stimulus bill (H.R.1.E.H., pdf version), almost 200 pages are spent on Health IT (434-627). Right away you can understand that this is a comprehensive piece of legislation, taking up almost 1/3 of the bill. The legislation establishes within the Department of Health and Human Services an Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology, which will be headed by a National Coordinator. This is like creating a new FDA, meaning the size of this new branch of government will end up quite large. It states various admirable purposes, such as ensuring electronic health information is secure and that it is used to better patient care. An overall goal is to have an electronic health record for every American by 2014 (page 445).

This is not a passive IT system that is collecting data. It is intended to be used as a tool to deploy a type of care it deems appropriate based on government employees making policy-related health decisions, with a stated purpose so the IT system “provides appropriate information to help guide medical decisions at the time and place of care.” (page 442)

Anybody reading this legislation quickly realizes that it is much more than a health IT system. It is a new type of health care with a blank check on expanding its regulatory powers to accomplish anything it deems appropriate. For example, on page 447 it reads, “REPORT ON ADDITIONAL FUNDING OR AUTHORITY NEEDED.—Not later than 12 months after the date of the enactment of this title, the National Coordinator shall submit to the appropriate committees of jurisdiction of the House of Representatives and the Senate a report on any additional funding or authority the Coordinator or the HIT Policy Committee or HIT Standards Committee requires to evaluate and develop standards, implementation specifications, and certification criteria, or to achieve full participation of stakeholders in the adoption of a nationwide health information technology infrastructure that allows for the electronic use and exchange of health information.”

A short version of this is “the National Coordinator shall report on any additional authority required to achieve full participation of stakeholders.” In other words, everyone will play ball and or else the National Coordinator must seek more power to be able to get everyone in line.

The legislation makes it clear that this is not just about your personal health. On page 455 it says, “the HIT Policy Committee may consider the following additional areas: The appropriate uses of a nation wide health information infrastructure, including for purposes of biosurveillance and public health.” This approves the use of your health information for military-related needs and other public health measures (meaning did you get all your vaccinations? etc.). It is not at all a stretch of the imagination to interpret this to mean that your electronic health record will be used to ensure you are in compliance with public health initiatives.

The legislation specifically mandates compliance by the private sector, page 470: “SEC. 4112. APPLICATION TO PRIVATE ENTITIES. Each agency (relating to promoting quality and efficient health care in Federal government administered or sponsored health care programs) shall require in contracts or agreements with health care providers, health plans, or health insurance issuers that as each provider, plan, or issuer implements, acquires, or upgrades health information technology systems, it shall utilize, where available, health information technology systems and products that meet standards and implementation specifications.”

In other words, all health professionals are required to abide by the standards of care that are determined in conjunction with the cost containment and “best practices” ideas of the federal government, whatever they may be. This means that the government is directly telling doctors how to practice medicine, and even what kind of medicine is allowed, contrary to what Senator Cardin told FOX news.

The theme and importance of conforming to the government’s idea of medical care is further spelled out in the section on the MEDICARE PROGRAM - INCENTIVES FOR ELIGIBLE PROFESSIONALS. This section introduces the term “meaningful user,” which is repeatedly used in the context of a health professional who is conforming to whatever the IT system tells them to do with their patients. It offers them bonuses up to $15,000 per year to comply with the IT health guidelines. (page 513) This means your doctor’s bonus could be more important than the right decision for your health.

The goal is to get doctors in the loop and then force them to comply with guidelines of care: “The Secretary shall seek to improve the use of electronic health records and health care quality over time by requiring more stringent measures of meaningful use.” (page 518) This is an open-ended and vaguely defined approach that could mean almost anything.

Freedom and Choice are Being Sacrificed

The price of this legislation cannot be measured in dollars. The price of this legislation should be measured in your loss of freedom, loss of privacy, and loss of choice relating to your own health. The government will want your DNA in its database next. It will want a chip in your arm to really keep track of you and your health. One thing will lead to another.

This legislation represents a broad and sweeping change in the type of care you will be able to receive. And that care will be set by the government, by unelected bureaucrats with who knows what agenda.

If this is what Americans really want then it should be debated and discussed openly on its merits. Freedom is not easily regained once it is lost. Once upon a time the people of Germany had a truly advanced health care system called the “freedom to cure.” It encouraged alternative health practitioners to practice side by side with medical doctors, offering true freedom of choice, all in the best interests of the patient. That was a long time ago.

In the name of public health, those freedoms were set aside for the rise of a socialist system. It was recognized that health freedom fostered mental health and free thinking citizens, and those rights were not compatible with socialism. Health freedom and general health choice were obliterated in the name of the greater good. The government had control. Even though Hitler was stopped, Germany has never regained its health freedom and today has one of the most repressive socialist health care systems on earth.

Certainly we want to do what we can to help Americans who are struggling with health problems, especially when those problems were not created by their own poor choices. It is simply not right to sacrifice our identity as a free people to accomplish that objective.

Emergency Call to Action

The only chance to stop sweeping health care reform, which is being pushed through without any public debate, is to flood the Senate with objection to the Health Care IT portion of the bill – demanding its removal from the Stimulus bill. The Senate is expected to vote on Friday. In addition to calling and faxing your own Senators, also let the three Republican Senators who are supporting this legislation know that you are opposed to Health IT, which is really major health care reform, being included in the Stimulus bill. Simply say, “I adamantly object to the Health IT provision in the Stimulus bill, which are designed to drastically change health care and are not relevant to stimulus.Americans deserve an open and honest debate on this very important topic. These health IT provisions should be removed from the Stimulus bill and offered to Congress in separate legislation.”

Contact Your SenatorsCapitol Switchboard – (202) 224-3121Or find your Senator’s contact information online by clicking here

The Three Key Senators to Also Contact:, M. - (R - ME)—Direct: (202) 224-2523, Fax: (202) 224-2693Specter, Arlen - (R - PA)—Direct: (202) 224-4254, Fax: 202-228-1229Snowe, Olympia J. - (R - ME)—Direct: (202) 224-5344, Fax: (202) 224-1946

,

I apologize that I got a bit emotional with my last posting to this group. I don't have the opportunity to take part nearly as much as I'd like in here.

I am also sorry that you deduced so much from my e-mail that was not there. E-mails are basically just words, but emotions can, indeed, be portrayed through words-- and emotions can cause false assumptions to be made, especially when one doesn't fully agree with what the first party emotionally presented.

I know nothing about you personally, , except that, like me, you are against forced vaccinations-- at least I am assuming that because of your membership on this list.

It can be hurtful, to think that, not knowing me except for what I shared in my e-mail here, you assume the only place I get my information is from Fox News. We do not have cable or satellite in our home-- we do not watch tv. Nor is our radio on much. Shall I defend where I do my research? I don't know if that will matter at all-- besides, I'll say it again, this is not a political forum.

We homeschool. We work hard to educate our children so that they will know for themselves the freedoms they will need to defend, as we are working so hard to preserve them today.

I have studied and used homeopathy for years in my family-- it is my first medical choice. This is where my biggest worries lie-- the gov't's influence by the pharmaceuticals, etc. and what this influence will result in, once the gov't manages to take health care out of our hands here. Yes, homeopathy has been used successfully not only in the UK but throughout Europe. That is not under the threat of being taken away there as I predict it will be here, under a government-controlled health care system.

I have a son with autism I know he got as a result of vaccinations. Homeopathy has brought him very far in his comeback. But he still requires a lot of my time.

You seem also to assume that I don't know socialism. My dear, I have lived in two countries besides the United States, both of which run under socialism. I have seen it in practise first-hand. This is not what the United States was built on-- it is what it was built against. The very words of our Founding Fathers confirm this.

In short, I have studied vaccines-- read documents from all sides of this issue (the only way conclusions can be drawn fairly). I have drawn my conclusion that I want no part of these, for myself or for my family. This is why I joined this list-- to be among like-minded people, to learn from you, to share with you, to feel companionship and strength when things happen. I hope not to convey such emotion when I have a chance to post again. I meant not to offend anyone.

This is all I will say here.

- Lemmon

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4163 (20090617) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com

June 18, 2009