Guest guest Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 In a message dated 10/8/01 1:16:50 AM GTB Daylight Time, vaccineinfo@... writes: << October 8, 1999 Flu Vaccine: Stay Out of My Womb! Commentary by Dawn >> I posted this and was told it was to old to be relevant. Oh well for them! They probably eat mercury laden fish every week too! Sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 At 08:56 AM 10/08/2001 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 10/8/01 1:16:50 AM GTB Daylight Time, >vaccineinfo@... writes: ><< October 8, 1999 > Flu Vaccine: Stay Out of My Womb! > Commentary by Dawn >> > >I posted this and was told it was to old to be relevant. >Oh well for them! They probably eat mercury laden fish every week too! >Sara > How old are these people - 17 - sounds like a very adolescent remark. Survival of the fittest may apply here -------------------------------------------------------- Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & UK 530-740-0561 Voicemail in US http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm " All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men ( & women) do nothing " ...Edmund Burke ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE. Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers Education, Homeopathic Education CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 The question here, to me, seems to be not, " could this not have been a definite factor . . . " but is there any way this could NOT have been a factor. Yes. Vaccines are toxic and dangerous to babies. A fetus is a baby. I would think this woman would have had a healthy baby if she had not had the vaccine. My opinion. t On Dec 31, 2008, at 9:51 AM, Lemmon wrote: > > I have a question that I think people here can help me answer. > > Is this a typical story of what can happen when a pregnant woman > gets a flu shot? > > A dear young lady in our church here-- a sports trainer-- just lost > her baby at 33-weeks. This was their first baby. I visited her > yesterday, to see how she was doing. She told me a bit of the > story. It was a " very uneventful " pregnancy, but in the last couple > weeks her baby would become very inactive. It distressed her to the > point that a couple of times she went in to have her baby > monitored. They finally delivered the baby by C-section just before > Christmas. Her white blood cell count was astronomical, and she was > already going through organ failure. The baby survived for two > hours. (She said the nurses there had never seen a case like this-- > with all the care available in the Dallas, TX area, they had never > lost a baby at 33 weeks.) > > She said she had done things just as the doctor told her. That > nothing unusual happened, until the baby stopped moving. She > mentioned the flu, and I felt to ask her if she had gotten the > vaccine. She assured me she certainly had, as everything was fine > and she was in her second trimester at the time, and it's what the > doctor told her she should do. > > I didn't say anything further to her about vaccines. She didn't > need it at the time. Being a mom to three myself, it just seems to > me that, if everything was progressing normally, as it should, and > the toxins of a vaccine are introduced-- could this not have been a > definite factor to what happened to her dear child? > > Thanks for any insight. > > - Lemmon > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 The question here, to me, seems to be not, " could this not have been a definite factor . . . " but is there any way this could NOT have been a factor. Yes. Vaccines are toxic and dangerous to babies. A fetus is a baby. I would think this woman would have had a healthy baby if she had not had the vaccine. My opinion. t On Dec 31, 2008, at 9:51 AM, Lemmon wrote: > > I have a question that I think people here can help me answer. > > Is this a typical story of what can happen when a pregnant woman > gets a flu shot? > > A dear young lady in our church here-- a sports trainer-- just lost > her baby at 33-weeks. This was their first baby. I visited her > yesterday, to see how she was doing. She told me a bit of the > story. It was a " very uneventful " pregnancy, but in the last couple > weeks her baby would become very inactive. It distressed her to the > point that a couple of times she went in to have her baby > monitored. They finally delivered the baby by C-section just before > Christmas. Her white blood cell count was astronomical, and she was > already going through organ failure. The baby survived for two > hours. (She said the nurses there had never seen a case like this-- > with all the care available in the Dallas, TX area, they had never > lost a baby at 33 weeks.) > > She said she had done things just as the doctor told her. That > nothing unusual happened, until the baby stopped moving. She > mentioned the flu, and I felt to ask her if she had gotten the > vaccine. She assured me she certainly had, as everything was fine > and she was in her second trimester at the time, and it's what the > doctor told her she should do. > > I didn't say anything further to her about vaccines. She didn't > need it at the time. Being a mom to three myself, it just seems to > me that, if everything was progressing normally, as it should, and > the toxins of a vaccine are introduced-- could this not have been a > definite factor to what happened to her dear child? > > Thanks for any insight. > > - Lemmon > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 , I want to commend you on visiting this young lady. A lot of people would run from her, not knowing what to say or do. People going through such a thing need someone to just be there, sometimes never saying a word, sometimes hugging, sometimes allowing them to vent frustration, etc. I am in no way compaing myself to this young women, but I have given a child up for adoption and know how that emptiness feels, the loss, the grief and all that goes with it. My social worker at the time had just lost her son after a full term pregnancy due to complications. We had a lot in common and bonded. Anyway, I feel certain due to the garbage they put in the vaccines that this had almost certainly something to do with this precious baby's death. If it effects children outside the womb, it effects the ones inside the womb. Women share everything with their fetuses. If the women eats it, drinks it, smokes it, etc., so does the child. I am praying for this precious family. I am so sorry for them. I do hope that eventually they can use this terrible tragedy to help someone else. "If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as the souls who live under tyranny." - Jefferson ____________________________________________________________ Click to make millions by owning your own franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 , I want to commend you on visiting this young lady. A lot of people would run from her, not knowing what to say or do. People going through such a thing need someone to just be there, sometimes never saying a word, sometimes hugging, sometimes allowing them to vent frustration, etc. I am in no way compaing myself to this young women, but I have given a child up for adoption and know how that emptiness feels, the loss, the grief and all that goes with it. My social worker at the time had just lost her son after a full term pregnancy due to complications. We had a lot in common and bonded. Anyway, I feel certain due to the garbage they put in the vaccines that this had almost certainly something to do with this precious baby's death. If it effects children outside the womb, it effects the ones inside the womb. Women share everything with their fetuses. If the women eats it, drinks it, smokes it, etc., so does the child. I am praying for this precious family. I am so sorry for them. I do hope that eventually they can use this terrible tragedy to help someone else. "If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as the souls who live under tyranny." - Jefferson ____________________________________________________________ Click to make millions by owning your own franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 I agree, the vaccine (and the doctor who recommended it and the doctor who injected it and the manufacturers of the vaccine, and the government officials that allow this to go on, and others I'm sure) killed the baby. On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Theresa <tgeorge1@...> wrote: The question here, to me, seems to be not, " could this not have been a definite factor . . . " but is there any way this could NOT have been a factor. Yes. Vaccines are toxic and dangerous to babies. A fetus is a baby. I would think this woman would have had a healthy baby if she had not had the vaccine. My opinion. t On Dec 31, 2008, at 9:51 AM, Lemmon wrote: > > I have a question that I think people here can help me answer. > > Is this a typical story of what can happen when a pregnant woman > gets a flu shot? > > A dear young lady in our church here-- a sports trainer-- just lost > her baby at 33-weeks. This was their first baby. I visited her > yesterday, to see how she was doing. She told me a bit of the > story. It was a " very uneventful " pregnancy, but in the last couple > weeks her baby would become very inactive. It distressed her to the > point that a couple of times she went in to have her baby > monitored. They finally delivered the baby by C-section just before > Christmas. Her white blood cell count was astronomical, and she was > already going through organ failure. The baby survived for two > hours. (She said the nurses there had never seen a case like this-- > with all the care available in the Dallas, TX area, they had never > lost a baby at 33 weeks.) > > She said she had done things just as the doctor told her. That > nothing unusual happened, until the baby stopped moving. She > mentioned the flu, and I felt to ask her if she had gotten the > vaccine. She assured me she certainly had, as everything was fine > and she was in her second trimester at the time, and it's what the > doctor told her she should do. > > I didn't say anything further to her about vaccines. She didn't > need it at the time. Being a mom to three myself, it just seems to > me that, if everything was progressing normally, as it should, and > the toxins of a vaccine are introduced-- could this not have been a > definite factor to what happened to her dear child? > > Thanks for any insight. > > - Lemmon > > > ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 I agree, the vaccine (and the doctor who recommended it and the doctor who injected it and the manufacturers of the vaccine, and the government officials that allow this to go on, and others I'm sure) killed the baby. On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Theresa <tgeorge1@...> wrote: The question here, to me, seems to be not, " could this not have been a definite factor . . . " but is there any way this could NOT have been a factor. Yes. Vaccines are toxic and dangerous to babies. A fetus is a baby. I would think this woman would have had a healthy baby if she had not had the vaccine. My opinion. t On Dec 31, 2008, at 9:51 AM, Lemmon wrote: > > I have a question that I think people here can help me answer. > > Is this a typical story of what can happen when a pregnant woman > gets a flu shot? > > A dear young lady in our church here-- a sports trainer-- just lost > her baby at 33-weeks. This was their first baby. I visited her > yesterday, to see how she was doing. She told me a bit of the > story. It was a " very uneventful " pregnancy, but in the last couple > weeks her baby would become very inactive. It distressed her to the > point that a couple of times she went in to have her baby > monitored. They finally delivered the baby by C-section just before > Christmas. Her white blood cell count was astronomical, and she was > already going through organ failure. The baby survived for two > hours. (She said the nurses there had never seen a case like this-- > with all the care available in the Dallas, TX area, they had never > lost a baby at 33 weeks.) > > She said she had done things just as the doctor told her. That > nothing unusual happened, until the baby stopped moving. She > mentioned the flu, and I felt to ask her if she had gotten the > vaccine. She assured me she certainly had, as everything was fine > and she was in her second trimester at the time, and it's what the > doctor told her she should do. > > I didn't say anything further to her about vaccines. She didn't > need it at the time. Being a mom to three myself, it just seems to > me that, if everything was progressing normally, as it should, and > the toxins of a vaccine are introduced-- could this not have been a > definite factor to what happened to her dear child? > > Thanks for any insight. > > - Lemmon > > > ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Yes, it is absolutely likely the vaccine caused this baby's death, though the medical community would never admit it. I have heard at least three other stories very similar to this in the last year. One lady on another list I belong to stated that she was having a normal, uneventful pregnancy until the day she got the flu shot. She was 32 weeks along. 6 hours after the vaccine, she was in labor and delivering a premie baby. Thankfully her baby lived, but she has no doubt in her mind that the flu shot caused her to go into permature labor. On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 7:51 AM, Lemmon <cathy@...> wrote: > I have a question that I think people here can help me answer. > > Is this a typical story of what can happen when a pregnant woman gets a flu > shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Yes, it is absolutely likely the vaccine caused this baby's death, though the medical community would never admit it. I have heard at least three other stories very similar to this in the last year. One lady on another list I belong to stated that she was having a normal, uneventful pregnancy until the day she got the flu shot. She was 32 weeks along. 6 hours after the vaccine, she was in labor and delivering a premie baby. Thankfully her baby lived, but she has no doubt in her mind that the flu shot caused her to go into permature labor. On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 7:51 AM, Lemmon <cathy@...> wrote: > I have a question that I think people here can help me answer. > > Is this a typical story of what can happen when a pregnant woman gets a flu > shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Why would any pregnant woman even consider getting a flu vaccine? This is the typical case where blind trust in a white-coated moron can have fatal consequences. "When a pregnant woman receives the flu vaccine, the fetus receives several hundred times more mercury than federal agencies say is safe for adults. Even the vaccine manufacturers admit the flu vaccine hasn't been adequately tested. The insert on one such vaccine (Fluzone) even stated: "Animal reproduction studies have not been conducted with Influenza Virus Vaccine. It is not known whether Influenza Virus Vaccine can cause fetal harm when administered to a pregnant woman or can affect reproduction capacity." http://www.health-truth.com/130.php In addition, it is a well known fact that another killer of mankind - aspartame - is hidden in more than 5,000 food products, in addition to diet sodas. Aspartame interacts with all vaccines and drugs. In a mail I received from Dr. Betty i today, she says in this respect: " When I think of Thimerosal, I think of a meeting held in the Carolinas with manufacturers and some concerned doctors. As you know, Thimerosal is heavy and sinks to the bottom of the container. So the last child to get the vaccine may not recover. So the end of the meeting was the manufacturer said to just "shake the bottle"! Unbelievable. What about all the doctors not told to shake the bottle? Anybody knows mercury is dangerous. Consider if the child is using aspartame which is a chelating agent, and aspartame also interacts with vaccines as well as drugs. You can understand why autism is 1 in 10 worldwide! I assume you know aspartame is a teratogen and triggers birth defects and mental retardation. It's also an abortifacient and millions of babies have been murdered in their mother's womb. Ingrid I agree, the vaccine (and the doctor who recommended it and the doctor who injected it and the manufacturers of the vaccine, and the government officials that allow this to go on, and others I'm sure) killed the baby. On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Theresa <tgeorge1@...> wrote: The question here, to me, seems to be not, "could this not have been adefinite factor . . . " but is there any way this could NOT have beena factor.Yes. Vaccines are toxic and dangerous to babies. A fetus is a baby.I would think this woman would have had a healthy baby if she had nothad the vaccine.My opinion.t On Dec 31, 2008, at 9:51 AM, Lemmon wrote:>> I have a question that I think people here can help me answer.>> Is this a typical story of what can happen when a pregnant woman> gets a flu shot?>> A dear young lady in our church here-- a sports trainer-- just lost> her baby at 33-weeks. This was their first baby. I visited her> yesterday, to see how she was doing. She told me a bit of the> story. It was a "very uneventful" pregnancy, but in the last couple> weeks her baby would become very inactive. It distressed her to the> point that a couple of times she went in to have her baby> monitored. They finally delivered the baby by C-section just before> Christmas. Her white blood cell count was astronomical, and she was> already going through organ failure. The baby survived for two> hours. (She said the nurses there had never seen a case like this--> with all the care available in the Dallas, TX area, they had never> lost a baby at 33 weeks.)>> She said she had done things just as the doctor told her. That> nothing unusual happened, until the baby stopped moving. She> mentioned the flu, and I felt to ask her if she had gotten the> vaccine. She assured me she certainly had, as everything was fine> and she was in her second trimester at the time, and it's what the> doctor told her she should do.>> I didn't say anything further to her about vaccines. She didn't> need it at the time. Being a mom to three myself, it just seems to> me that, if everything was progressing normally, as it should, and> the toxins of a vaccine are introduced-- could this not have been a> definite factor to what happened to her dear child?>> Thanks for any insight.>> - Lemmon>>>------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Why would any pregnant woman even consider getting a flu vaccine? This is the typical case where blind trust in a white-coated moron can have fatal consequences. "When a pregnant woman receives the flu vaccine, the fetus receives several hundred times more mercury than federal agencies say is safe for adults. Even the vaccine manufacturers admit the flu vaccine hasn't been adequately tested. The insert on one such vaccine (Fluzone) even stated: "Animal reproduction studies have not been conducted with Influenza Virus Vaccine. It is not known whether Influenza Virus Vaccine can cause fetal harm when administered to a pregnant woman or can affect reproduction capacity." http://www.health-truth.com/130.php In addition, it is a well known fact that another killer of mankind - aspartame - is hidden in more than 5,000 food products, in addition to diet sodas. Aspartame interacts with all vaccines and drugs. In a mail I received from Dr. Betty i today, she says in this respect: " When I think of Thimerosal, I think of a meeting held in the Carolinas with manufacturers and some concerned doctors. As you know, Thimerosal is heavy and sinks to the bottom of the container. So the last child to get the vaccine may not recover. So the end of the meeting was the manufacturer said to just "shake the bottle"! Unbelievable. What about all the doctors not told to shake the bottle? Anybody knows mercury is dangerous. Consider if the child is using aspartame which is a chelating agent, and aspartame also interacts with vaccines as well as drugs. You can understand why autism is 1 in 10 worldwide! I assume you know aspartame is a teratogen and triggers birth defects and mental retardation. It's also an abortifacient and millions of babies have been murdered in their mother's womb. Ingrid I agree, the vaccine (and the doctor who recommended it and the doctor who injected it and the manufacturers of the vaccine, and the government officials that allow this to go on, and others I'm sure) killed the baby. On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Theresa <tgeorge1@...> wrote: The question here, to me, seems to be not, "could this not have been adefinite factor . . . " but is there any way this could NOT have beena factor.Yes. Vaccines are toxic and dangerous to babies. A fetus is a baby.I would think this woman would have had a healthy baby if she had nothad the vaccine.My opinion.t On Dec 31, 2008, at 9:51 AM, Lemmon wrote:>> I have a question that I think people here can help me answer.>> Is this a typical story of what can happen when a pregnant woman> gets a flu shot?>> A dear young lady in our church here-- a sports trainer-- just lost> her baby at 33-weeks. This was their first baby. I visited her> yesterday, to see how she was doing. She told me a bit of the> story. It was a "very uneventful" pregnancy, but in the last couple> weeks her baby would become very inactive. It distressed her to the> point that a couple of times she went in to have her baby> monitored. They finally delivered the baby by C-section just before> Christmas. Her white blood cell count was astronomical, and she was> already going through organ failure. The baby survived for two> hours. (She said the nurses there had never seen a case like this--> with all the care available in the Dallas, TX area, they had never> lost a baby at 33 weeks.)>> She said she had done things just as the doctor told her. That> nothing unusual happened, until the baby stopped moving. She> mentioned the flu, and I felt to ask her if she had gotten the> vaccine. She assured me she certainly had, as everything was fine> and she was in her second trimester at the time, and it's what the> doctor told her she should do.>> I didn't say anything further to her about vaccines. She didn't> need it at the time. Being a mom to three myself, it just seems to> me that, if everything was progressing normally, as it should, and> the toxins of a vaccine are introduced-- could this not have been a> definite factor to what happened to her dear child?>> Thanks for any insight.>> - Lemmon>>>------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Hullo . Flu vaccines Still contain mercury. Mercury is known to cause both stillbirths and premature delivery. Mercury injected into the already immune compromised body of a pregnant woman (Which should never be allowed), these toxins go right into the blood supply and into the embrionic fluids, so it is just like the unborn fetus is getting the shot too. And the recommendation is not for children under the age of 2 to get a flu shot. So think about that. That may answer your question of Coulda Shoulda Woulda. Was the infant autopsied or tested for cause of death, for things like mercury poisoning or enceph/meningitis? It was a sad story to hear. Glad Day ~ Karla in IL http://www.hpathy.com/papersnew/rebello-vaccines-unsafe-untested.asp Happy New Year Everyone!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Hullo . Flu vaccines Still contain mercury. Mercury is known to cause both stillbirths and premature delivery. Mercury injected into the already immune compromised body of a pregnant woman (Which should never be allowed), these toxins go right into the blood supply and into the embrionic fluids, so it is just like the unborn fetus is getting the shot too. And the recommendation is not for children under the age of 2 to get a flu shot. So think about that. That may answer your question of Coulda Shoulda Woulda. Was the infant autopsied or tested for cause of death, for things like mercury poisoning or enceph/meningitis? It was a sad story to hear. Glad Day ~ Karla in IL http://www.hpathy.com/papersnew/rebello-vaccines-unsafe-untested.asp Happy New Year Everyone!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Thank you so much, everyone who's responded so far to this. I appreciate all you said. My heart just aches for this dear young woman. It pretty much clicked with me what must have happened just as soon as she said she " dutifully " got her flu shot during her to that time uneventful pregnancy. They have sent the baby for autopsies, but they have told her they " may never " know what caused her baby's death. I'm just thinking, with what I've been learning, and with what you all here are confirming, they'll know exactly what caused her baby's death, but they're not going to admit it to any degree. We're new in this area (moved to TX from MT) and are just getting to people and places around here. I'm going to continue to befriend this young lady, and hopefully she'll learn more about how horrible vaccines are, so that she'll be more informed in the decisions she'll make in the future. My husband has a co-worker who was expressing concern about the fact that his son, now about twenty months, was developing normally until they gave him at least four shots at one time (with who knows how many vaccines in these). He only grunts when he wants something, does puzzles remarkably well, and a few other " classic " behaviors. My husband's working on helping this father understand a bit better about the horrors of vaccines now too. I really do cringe when I think of the countless lives now horribly afflicted and families also affected by these vaccines we have been so blindly conditioned to believe are good, safe, and effective. Thank you again, all, for the wonderful support, knowledge, and friendship I'm feeling on this list - Lemmon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Yes, the flu vaccine can cause this - I know doctors that looked into this and they found that flu vaccines can cause spontaneous abortion. I didn't do the research ahead of time, and allowed the flu shot while pregnant. My daughter developed a heart arhythmia in utero after I received the flu shot. She now is labeled with autism and borderline cerebral palsy. Pregnant moms are being told not to smoke, drink alcohol, drink/eat caffeine, etc, yet the same doctors advising that are pushing flu shots with mercury and aluminum and other toxins. > > I have a question that I think people here can help me answer. > > Is this a typical story of what can happen when a pregnant woman gets a > flu shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Exactly Karla. I doubt they would admit to seeing merc poisoning though. There must have been a very short fuse due to an already high toxic load and probably genetic weakness coupled in this case. If she had not had the flu shot, the baby was born and commenced vaxes, it would have been disastrous at that point.....sounds like her philosophy + the baby's sensitivity were doomed no matter what. Give her comfort and love....and perhaps in time instill some ideas of detoxing her body (and the father's) before becoming pregnant again, at least. Then of course to look at the dangers of any vax. I think her eyes will open in time, in wanting some answers. Be well, Liz > > Hullo . Flu vaccines Still contain mercury. Mercury is known to cause both stillbirths and premature delivery. Mercury injected into the already immune compromised body of a pregnant woman (Which should never be allowed), these toxins go right into the blood supply and into the embrionic fluids, so it is just like the unborn fetus is getting the shot too. And the recommendation is not for children under the age of 2 to get a flu shot. So think about that. That may answer your question of Coulda Shoulda Woulda. > Was the infant autopsied or tested for cause of death, for things like mercury poisoning or enceph/meningitis? It was a sad story to hear. Glad Day ~ Karla in IL > http://www.hpathy.com/papersnew/rebello-vaccines-unsafe-untested.asp > > Happy New Year Everyone!!!!!!!!!!! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 The flu during pregnancy increases the risk of schizophrenia in the child, but go ahead & recommend the flu shot!!! ugh!!!! http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp- dyn/content/article/2007/11/23/AR2007112301327.html Over the past several decades, a steady stream of studies has documented that people born in winter and spring have an increased risk for schizophrenia, a serious mental illness characterized by disordered thinking, hallucinations and other psychotic symptoms. Explanations for the increased risk have ranged from the astrological -- different signs of the zodiac have been associated with various mental problems -- to accounts that suggested the risk came from seasonal variations in sunlight. In recent months and years, scientists have developed a different explanation: Studies show the increased risk of schizophrenia appears linked to maternal infections during the first and second trimesters of pregnancy -- especially flu infections. Since the flu peaks in the fall, this might explain why babies born in the winter and spring have the higher risk. The research is both intriguing and troubling. For one thing, it suggests that the origins of diseases such as schizophrenia might start as early as the womb. Indeed, symptoms of schizophrenia, which typically emerge in late adolescence or early adulthood and affects about 1 percent of the population, may only be the very last stage in a long process. " Often what we see in the form of schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and even some of the more neurological disorders like Alzheimer's disease [is] the end stage where people show symptoms, " said Insel, director of the National Institute of Mental Health. " The best model is in Parkinson's disease: You don't show the symptoms until you have lost 80 percent of the neurons in the substantia nigra, " an area of the brain that helps produce the neurotransmitter dopamine. But if research into the links between early maternal infections and schizophrenia might one day provide researchers with clues about how to attack the disease before symptoms become apparent, it also raises difficult public health conundrums. That's because the newest studies suggest the culprit may not be infections such as the flu per se, but pregnant mothers' immune reactions to such infections. Current guidelines recommend that pregnant women get a flu shot -- and the point of the flu vaccine is to set off an immune reaction. If the risk for schizophrenia is increased as a result of maternal antibodies, might protecting mom and baby from the flu raise the risk the child could get schizophrenia years down the road? The research into the links between maternal flu and schizophrenia is still considered preliminary, which makes any policy conclusions premature, but scientists studying the connection are starting to worry. National guidelines issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommend that pregnant women get flu shots. " Obviously, the safe thing to do is to go with the experts, and the experts are the CDC, " said , a professor of biology at the California Institute of Technology and one of the leading researchers into the link between maternal infections and schizophrenia. " However, if it was my wife, I would not [want] her vaccinated. " said he would try to protect a pregnant family member from the flu by suggesting she keep away from infected people and by enforcing a regimen of regular hand-washing among all family members. However, he conceded that such measures might not be as effective as flu shots and that women who get the flu because they don't get a flu shot might not only put their future children at increased risk for schizophrenia, but also incur numerous other risks from the illness. Careful prevention techniques, moreover, are unlikely to help pregnant women who have toddlers, because small children tend to bring home endless streams of viral infections. Insel praised 's research into the connection between infections and schizophrenia, but he warned against rushing to revise flu shot recommendations. Hints about the schizophrenia-winter connection have been around for decades. Epidemiologists have found that children of women who were pregnant during widespread flu epidemics seemed to have higher risk for schizophrenia. But critics have said there's insufficient evidence to assert a causative relationship because such studies did not confirm that the pregnant women had the flu. Besides, other factors seemed to trigger the same effect: One wartime study found that pregnant women whose husbands died were more likely to have children who later developed schizophrenia. A research breakthrough came in 2004 when Alan Brown, a psychiatrist at Columbia University and the New York State Psychiatric Institute, got access to data from a study that collected blood samples between 1959 and 1966 from thousands of pregnant women at different stages of their pregnancy. In an analysis that compared blood samples from the mothers of 64 children who went on to develop schizophrenia with blood samples of similar mothers whose offspring did not, Brown and his colleagues showed that women who had higher levels of influenza antibodies in their first or second trimester of pregnancy had offspring who were three to seven times more likely to develop schizophrenia. Brown calculated that if the women had not had the flu during pregnancy, 14 percent of the schizophrenia cases could have been prevented, an effect he calls potentially enormous for a disease believed to have several complex genetic and environmental factors. Brown and other researchers also began seeking evidence that mothers who contracted other infections during pregnancy also had children who were at increased risk of schizophrenia; they also began looking for common pathways between the infections. One appeared to be an immune system protein, or cytokine, called interleukin-6; cytokines are activated not only through infections but also through stress. Brown, Insel and all hasten to point out that, while schizophrenia is a relatively rare disease, as many as 10 percent of women get the flu while they are pregnant, and many pregnant women contract other infections and experience stress. This suggests that the vast majority of women who have their immune systems triggered during pregnancy will not have children who develop schizophrenia. Insel also cites evidence that genetics may play a more dominant role than the environment in determining who gets schizophrenia: Studies of identical twins show that when one child develops schizophrenia, the other has a 50 percent chance of developing the disorder, too. However, some of the increased risk among identical twins may be a result of maternal infections during pregnancy -- and not genetics, argues. That's because those identical twins who share a common placenta -- and who are, therefore, more likely to receive the same maternal cytokines -- seem to have a higher risk of schizophrenia than identical twins who do not share a common placenta. (While the science assigns no blame to mothers for these risks, the long history of blaming parents for the disorder suggests it might be useful to note that people's immune systems are beyond their control, and pregnant women cannot be held responsible for the flu- schizophrenia link.) E. Fuller Torrey, a Washington psychiatrist with a long interest in schizophrenia, said the link between early maternal infections and schizophrenia is strong. He believes that infections and immune reactions in young children, not just maternal infections during fetal life, might be involved in elevating the risk for schizophrenia. Animal research conducted by Caltech's along with Carpenter and Koenig at the land Psychiatric Research Center at the University of land appears to support the theories of Brown and others. Pregnant rodents given flu infections seem more likely to have offspring that show some of the behavioral symptoms of schizophrenia, such as social withdrawal and anxiety. When the effect of maternal antibodies is blocked, the offspring do not go on to develop such symptoms. said he also hoped to see new epidemiological studies that specifically looked at whether pregnant women given flu shots had offspring with a higher risk of schizophrenia than pregnant women who did not receive flu shots. " It is true that vaccinations do not cause the same degree of immune activation as an infection, " he said. " But if you are recommending universal vaccinations for every woman who is pregnant, you are asking for increased risk for schizophrenia because some women are going to have a very strong reaction. " What should pregnant women do until useful policy conclusions can be drawn? Experts say the best bet is probably to stick to official public health guidelines on the flu shot, and to try to limit infections and stress during pregnancy. " I was raised in the Midwest, so I believe the best motto is, 'Everything in moderation,' " Koenig said. " Keep your life as well balanced as possible. " > > > > Hullo . Flu vaccines Still contain mercury. Mercury is known > to cause both stillbirths and premature delivery. Mercury injected > into the already immune compromised body of a pregnant woman (Which > should never be allowed), these toxins go right into the blood supply > and into the embrionic fluids, so it is just like the unborn fetus is > getting the shot too. And the recommendation is not for children under > the age of 2 to get a flu shot. So think about that. That may answer > your question of Coulda Shoulda Woulda. > > Was the infant autopsied or tested for cause of death, for things > like mercury poisoning or enceph/meningitis? It was a sad story to > hear. Glad Day ~ Karla in IL > > http://www.hpathy.com/papersnew/rebello-vaccines-unsafe-untested.asp > > > > Happy New Year Everyone!!!!!!!!!!! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 One thing I'm certain of is that the main cause of "schizphrenia" is mercury poisoning, mostly from vacs and amalgams, not to deny that other toxins play a role. If the rate of schiz is associated with seasons this does not mean that flu is causing it - so then, are vac rates uniform throughout the year? Or are there MORE of them in the fall when school is starting, or in the spring when the school year is ending? After years of observations on overlapping symptomalogy, it is clear at least to me that autism, bipolar, Alzheimer's, schizophrenia, etc, etc, etc... are actually one and the SAME disorder. Any differences are due to several factors, mostly age, degree and timing of exposures, where interactions with other toxins are important, too. Of course, ANY kind of self inflicted substance abuse will give the MDs an easy way out and likely worsen the effects of mercury... mean while, seasonal associations can be assumed, but that doesn't mean that April flowers or September leaves cause mental illness... From: n <ejoslyn@...>Subject: Re: flu vaccine in pregnancyno-forced-vaccination Date: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 4:10 PM The flu during pregnancy increases the risk of schizophrenia in the child, but go ahead & recommend the flu shot!!! ugh!!!!http://www.washingt onpost.com/ wp-dyn/content/ article/2007/ 11/23/AR20071123 01327.htmlOver the past several decades, a steady stream of studies has documented that people born in winter and spring have an increased risk for schizophrenia, a serious mental illness characterized by disordered thinking, hallucinations and other psychotic symptoms.Explanations for the increased risk have ranged from the astrological -- different signs of the zodiac have been associated with various mental problems -- to accounts that suggested the risk came from seasonal variations in sunlight.In recent months and years, scientists have developed a different explanation: Studies show the increased risk of schizophrenia appears linked to maternal infections during the first and second trimesters of pregnancy -- especially flu infections. Since the flu peaks in the fall, this might explain why babies born in the winter and spring have the higher risk.The research is both intriguing and troubling. For one thing, it suggests that the origins of diseases such as schizophrenia might start as early as the womb. Indeed, symptoms of schizophrenia, which typically emerge in late adolescence or early adulthood and affects about 1 percent of the population, may only be the very last stage in a long process."Often what we see in the form of schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and even some of the more neurological disorders like Alzheimer's disease [is] the end stage where people show symptoms," said Insel, director of the National Institute of Mental Health. "The best model is in Parkinson's disease: You don't show the symptoms until you have lost 80 percent of the neurons in the substantia nigra," an area of the brain that helps produce the neurotransmitter dopamine.But if research into the links between early maternal infections and schizophrenia might one day provide researchers with clues about how to attack the disease before symptoms become apparent, it also raises difficult public health conundrums.That's because the newest studies suggest the culprit may not be infections such as the flu per se, but pregnant mothers' immune reactions to such infections. Current guidelines recommend that pregnant women get a flu shot -- and the point of the flu vaccine is to set off an immune reaction. If the risk for schizophrenia is increased as a result of maternal antibodies, might protecting mom and baby from the flu raise the risk the child could get schizophrenia years down the road?The research into the links between maternal flu and schizophrenia is still considered preliminary, which makes any policy conclusions premature, but scientists studying the connection are starting to worry. National guidelines issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommend that pregnant women get flu shots."Obviously, the safe thing to do is to go with the experts, and the experts are the CDC," said , a professor of biology at the California Institute of Technology and one of the leading researchers into the link between maternal infections and schizophrenia. "However, if it was my wife, I would not [want] her vaccinated." said he would try to protect a pregnant family member from the flu by suggesting she keep away from infected people and by enforcing a regimen of regular hand-washing among all family members.However, he conceded that such measures might not be as effective as flu shots and that women who get the flu because they don't get a flu shot might not only put their future children at increased risk for schizophrenia, but also incur numerous other risks from the illness. Careful prevention techniques, moreover, are unlikely to help pregnant women who have toddlers, because small children tend to bring home endless streams of viral infections.Insel praised 's research into the connection between infections and schizophrenia, but he warned against rushing to revise flu shot recommendations.Hints about the schizophrenia- winter connection have been around for decades.Epidemiologists have found that children of women who were pregnant during widespread flu epidemics seemed to have higher risk for schizophrenia. But critics have said there's insufficient evidence to assert a causative relationship because such studies did not confirm that the pregnant women had the flu.Besides, other factors seemed to trigger the same effect: One wartime study found that pregnant women whose husbands died were more likely to have children who later developed schizophrenia.A research breakthrough came in 2004 when Alan Brown, a psychiatrist at Columbia University and the New York State Psychiatric Institute, got access to data from a study that collected blood samples between 1959 and 1966 from thousands of pregnant women at different stages of their pregnancy.In an analysis that compared blood samples from the mothers of 64 children who went on to develop schizophrenia with blood samples of similar mothers whose offspring did not, Brown and his colleagues showed that women who had higher levels of influenza antibodies in their first or second trimester of pregnancy had offspring who were three to seven times more likely to develop schizophrenia.Brown calculated that if the women had not had the flu during pregnancy, 14 percent of the schizophrenia cases could have been prevented, an effect he calls potentially enormous for a disease believed to have several complex genetic and environmental factors.Brown and other researchers also began seeking evidence that mothers who contracted other infections during pregnancy also had children who were at increased risk of schizophrenia; they also began looking for common pathways between the infections. One appeared to be an immune system protein, or cytokine, called interleukin- 6; cytokines are activated not only through infections but also through stress.Brown, Insel and all hasten to point out that, while schizophrenia is a relatively rare disease, as many as 10 percent of women get the flu while they are pregnant, and many pregnant women contract other infections and experience stress. This suggests that the vast majority of women who have their immune systems triggered during pregnancy will not have children who develop schizophrenia.Insel also cites evidence that genetics may play a more dominant role than the environment in determining who gets schizophrenia: Studies of identical twins show that when one child develops schizophrenia, the other has a 50 percent chance of developing the disorder, too.However, some of the increased risk among identical twins may be a result of maternal infections during pregnancy -- and not genetics, argues. That's because those identical twins who share a common placenta -- and who are, therefore, more likely to receive the same maternal cytokines -- seem to have a higher risk of schizophrenia than identical twins who do not share a common placenta.(While the science assigns no blame to mothers for these risks, the long history of blaming parents for the disorder suggests it might be useful to note that people's immune systems are beyond their control, and pregnant women cannot be held responsible for the flu-schizophrenia link.)E. Fuller Torrey, a Washington psychiatrist with a long interest in schizophrenia, said the link between early maternal infections and schizophrenia is strong. He believes that infections and immune reactions in young children, not just maternal infections during fetal life, might be involved in elevating the risk for schizophrenia.Animal research conducted by Caltech's along with Carpenter and Koenig at the land Psychiatric Research Center at the University of land appears to support the theories of Brown and others.Pregnant rodents given flu infections seem more likely to have offspring that show some of the behavioral symptoms of schizophrenia, such as social withdrawal and anxiety. When the effect of maternal antibodies is blocked, the offspring do not go on to develop such symptoms. said he also hoped to see new epidemiological studies that specifically looked at whether pregnant women given flu shots had offspring with a higher risk of schizophrenia than pregnant women who did not receive flu shots."It is true that vaccinations do not cause the same degree of immune activation as an infection," he said. "But if you are recommending universal vaccinations for every woman who is pregnant, you are asking for increased risk for schizophrenia because some women are going to have a very strong reaction."What should pregnant women do until useful policy conclusions can be drawn?Experts say the best bet is probably to stick to official public health guidelines on the flu shot, and to try to limit infections and stress during pregnancy."I was raised in the Midwest, so I believe the best motto is, 'Everything in moderation,' " Koenig said. "Keep your life as well balanced as possible." > >> > Hullo . Flu vaccines Still contain mercury. Mercury is known> to cause both stillbirths and premature delivery. Mercury injected> into the already immune compromised body of a pregnant woman (Which> should never be allowed), these toxins go right into the blood supply> and into the embrionic fluids, so it is just like the unborn fetus is> getting the shot too. And the recommendation is not for children under> the age of 2 to get a flu shot. So think about that. That may answer> your question of Coulda Shoulda Woulda. > > Was the infant autopsied or tested for cause of death, for things> like mercury poisoning or enceph/meningitis? It was a sad story to> hear. Glad Day ~ Karla in IL> > http://www.hpathy. com/papersnew/ rebello-vaccines -unsafe-untested .asp> > > > Happy New Year Everyone!!!! !!!!!!!> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Mercola says thimerosol has indeed been linked to fetal death. (http://www.jpands.org/vol11no2/ayoub.pdf) And see Ayoub and Yazbak MD's fabulous critical paper about influenza and flu vaccine here (http://www.jpands.org/vol11no2/ayoub.pdf) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Mercola says thimerosol has indeed been linked to fetal death. (http://www.jpands.org/vol11no2/ayoub.pdf) And see Ayoub and Yazbak MD's fabulous critical paper about influenza and flu vaccine here (http://www.jpands.org/vol11no2/ayoub.pdf) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I don't see how there could be any doubt... what was alerting me was "sudden" arrival of this mystery death without any serious gov/med concerns about the why of it, but then my chin really dropped when I saw a gov ad on TV for parents of infants to be sure and make them sleep on their side... so, how did babies change their habits or did old habits suddenly get deadly? That was just before I started to hone in on the family maladies that had been plaguing us, and soon pegged them to vaccinations and amalgams... SIDS is caused by the mercury, and "they" know it... similarly, the sudden numerous deaths where parents are charged with shaking their children's heads... I can't say that doesn't happen, but I wasn't surprised to find that toxic reactions cause brain stem injuries and that this is the reason for at least some, maybe a lot more... didn't parents always shake their infants and kill them, or did that problem just begin? TV influence? From: lioracc <lioracc@...>Subject: Re: flu vaccine in pregnancyno-forced-vaccination Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 6:13 PM Mercola says thimerosol has indeed been linked to fetal death.(http://www.jpands. org/vol11no2/ ayoub.pdf)And see Ayoub and Yazbak MD's fabulous critical paper about influenzaand flu vaccine here (http://www.jpands. org/vol11no2/ ayoub.pdf) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I don't see how there could be any doubt... what was alerting me was "sudden" arrival of this mystery death without any serious gov/med concerns about the why of it, but then my chin really dropped when I saw a gov ad on TV for parents of infants to be sure and make them sleep on their side... so, how did babies change their habits or did old habits suddenly get deadly? That was just before I started to hone in on the family maladies that had been plaguing us, and soon pegged them to vaccinations and amalgams... SIDS is caused by the mercury, and "they" know it... similarly, the sudden numerous deaths where parents are charged with shaking their children's heads... I can't say that doesn't happen, but I wasn't surprised to find that toxic reactions cause brain stem injuries and that this is the reason for at least some, maybe a lot more... didn't parents always shake their infants and kill them, or did that problem just begin? TV influence? From: lioracc <lioracc@...>Subject: Re: flu vaccine in pregnancyno-forced-vaccination Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 6:13 PM Mercola says thimerosol has indeed been linked to fetal death.(http://www.jpands. org/vol11no2/ ayoub.pdf)And see Ayoub and Yazbak MD's fabulous critical paper about influenzaand flu vaccine here (http://www.jpands. org/vol11no2/ ayoub.pdf) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 They say they removed mercury from vaccines but all they did was minimize it so that it's lower than their " standard " lol as if any amount is safe...On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Alan Foossolvesunified.com <cusanusnicolas@...> wrote: I don't see how there could be any doubt... what was alerting me was " sudden " arrival of this mystery death without any serious gov/med concerns about the why of it, but then my chin really dropped when I saw a gov ad on TV for parents of infants to be sure and make them sleep on their side... so, how did babies change their habits or did old habits suddenly get deadly? That was just before I started to hone in on the family maladies that had been plaguing us, and soon pegged them to vaccinations and amalgams... SIDS is caused by the mercury, and " they " know it... similarly, the sudden numerous deaths where parents are charged with shaking their children's heads... I can't say that doesn't happen, but I wasn't surprised to find that toxic reactions cause brain stem injuries and that this is the reason for at least some, maybe a lot more... didn't parents always shake their infants and kill them, or did that problem just begin? TV influence? From: lioracc <lioracc@...>Subject: Re: flu vaccine in pregnancy no-forced-vaccination Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 6:13 PM Mercola says thimerosol has indeed been linked to fetal death.(http://www.jpands. org/vol11no2/ ayoub.pdf)And see Ayoub and Yazbak MD's fabulous critical paper about influenza and flu vaccine here (http://www.jpands. org/vol11no2/ ayoub.pdf) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 They say they removed mercury from vaccines but all they did was minimize it so that it's lower than their " standard " lol as if any amount is safe...On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Alan Foossolvesunified.com <cusanusnicolas@...> wrote: I don't see how there could be any doubt... what was alerting me was " sudden " arrival of this mystery death without any serious gov/med concerns about the why of it, but then my chin really dropped when I saw a gov ad on TV for parents of infants to be sure and make them sleep on their side... so, how did babies change their habits or did old habits suddenly get deadly? That was just before I started to hone in on the family maladies that had been plaguing us, and soon pegged them to vaccinations and amalgams... SIDS is caused by the mercury, and " they " know it... similarly, the sudden numerous deaths where parents are charged with shaking their children's heads... I can't say that doesn't happen, but I wasn't surprised to find that toxic reactions cause brain stem injuries and that this is the reason for at least some, maybe a lot more... didn't parents always shake their infants and kill them, or did that problem just begin? TV influence? From: lioracc <lioracc@...>Subject: Re: flu vaccine in pregnancy no-forced-vaccination Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 6:13 PM Mercola says thimerosol has indeed been linked to fetal death.(http://www.jpands. org/vol11no2/ ayoub.pdf)And see Ayoub and Yazbak MD's fabulous critical paper about influenza and flu vaccine here (http://www.jpands. org/vol11no2/ ayoub.pdf) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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