Re: OFF TOPIC???? Minn. mom fights church ban on her autistic son

June 1, 2008

Here is another article on this deeply disturbing issue. It was written by the some of a good friend of mine.

I keep thinking and wondering where modern day religious teachings went astray from the teachings of acceptance that the man named Jesus taught. ????? I'd like to know how these people who have adopted such ideas, beliefs and policies can get away with calling themselves "Christian???" I'm embarressed in so many ways by this that it isn't even funny. ~~Ruth/REU

===================================Minn. mom fights church ban on her autistic sonBy DAVE KOLPACK (Associated Press Writer)From Associated PressJune 01, 2008 3:01 PM EDT BERTHA, Minn. - Carol Race thinks it's important for her 13-year-old son to be in church on Sundays for Catholic Mass.Leaders of the Church of St. ph once felt the same way, but not anymore. Theysay Race's autistic son Adam is disruptive and his erratic behavior threatensthe safety of other parishioners.The northern Minnesota church has obtained a restraining order to keep Adam away,an action that has been deeply hurtful to the Race family and has brought them supportfrom parents of other autistic children."My son is not dangerous," Carol Race said. The church's action is"about a certain community's fears of him. Fears of danger versus actualdanger," she said.In court papers, church leaders say the danger is real. The Rev. Walz wrotein his petition for the restraining order that Adam - who already is more than 6feet tall and weighs more than 225 pounds - has hit a child, has nearly knocked over elderly parishioners while bolting from his pew, has spit at people and hasurinated in the church."His behavior at Mass is extremely disruptive and dangerous," wrote Walz."Adam is 13 and growing, so his behaviors grow increasingly difficult for hisparents to manage."Carol Race said Walz's claims are exaggerated."He's never actually injured anyone," she said. "He's neverknocked down anyone. He's never urinated on anyone or spit on anyone."Carol Race was cited for attending church May 11 in violation of the restrainingorder, and faces a hearing Monday. She says she can't afford a lawyer and willdefend herself in court. A lay mediator is scheduled to meet with her and churchboard members on Wednesday.Autism is a developmental disorder that affects a person's ability to communicateand interact with others. It is more severe in some people than others. Adam haslimited verbal skills.Walz did not return calls seeking comment, but Jane Marrin, who works for the Dioceseof St. Cloud and is acting as a spokeswoman for the parish, said the church boardtried working with the Races to find "reasonable accommodations." Thatincluded offering a video feed of Mass that could be watched in the church basement.The family refused all suggestions, she said."It's a difficult issue," Marrin said. "There are no easy answers."Carol Race dismissed the church's suggestion that Adam watch a video feed inthe church basement, saying that "does not have the same status as attendingMass. Otherwise we could all just sit home and watch it on TV and not bother to come in.""It's considered a sin in the Catholic church not to attend Mass on Sundaysand every holy day of obligation," she said. "And that's what thisis about. I'm just trying to fulfill my obligations."Adam is one of five children. The family's home in nearby Eagle Bend has separatestudy rooms so the other children can read books and use crayons that Adam couldotherwise destroy.Carol said Adam has two favorite spots in the house, the prayer room and the kitchentable. "He likes to eat," she said, laughing.Adam is prone to anxiety attacks. Carol said some of those outbursts force membersof the family to sit on him to calm him down, or restrain his hands and feet witha strip of felt.In his court petition, Walz said that after one service Adam got into another family'scar, started it and revved up the engine while there were people in front of thevehicle."Adam's continued presence on parish grounds not only endangers the parishioners,it is disruptive to the devout celebration of the Eucharist," Walz wrote. "Ihave repeatedly asked and Carol to keep Adam from church; they have refusedto do so."In fact, Carol told our parish council that she would have to be dragged fromchurch in handcuffs if I tried to keep Adam from attending Mass," he wrote.The Races have received support from other parents, including and Libby Rupp,who brought their autistic daughter from St. on Memorial Day weekend and satin the church's back pew normally occupied by the Races."I think this case is mostly about not understanding autism," Libby Ruppsaid. "I wanted to show them another example. Ultimately, we just need morepeople to truly understand autism."Rupp met the Races and said she could see why some people might be uncomfortablearound Adam, but she added: "Never at one point did I feel that anyone was in danger."=============================Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Re: Minn. mom fights church ban on her autistic son

This article came out a few weeks ago....I didn't post it on our group as it could be considered "off topic'

This is very distrubing for an autistic person to be legally excluded from church service.....surely everyone involved could have come up with sensible alternatives.

The attitude toward this family's challenges by a religious organization is offensive and contradictory....to say the least.

Jackiekarla walsh <faerie1952 > wrote:

http://news./s/ap/20080601/ap_on_re_us/church_autistic_child;_ylt=AvtncHg37saUas0IfscCQKtH2ocA

June 1, 2008

Here is another article on this deeply disturbing issue. It was written by the some of a good friend of mine.

I keep thinking and wondering where modern day religious teachings went astray from the teachings of acceptance that the man named Jesus taught. ????? I'd like to know how these people who have adopted such ideas, beliefs and policies can get away with calling themselves "Christian???" I'm embarressed in so many ways by this that it isn't even funny. ~~Ruth/REU

===================================Minn. mom fights church ban on her autistic sonBy DAVE KOLPACK (Associated Press Writer)From Associated PressJune 01, 2008 3:01 PM EDT BERTHA, Minn. - Carol Race thinks it's important for her 13-year-old son to be in church on Sundays for Catholic Mass.Leaders of the Church of St. ph once felt the same way, but not anymore. Theysay Race's autistic son Adam is disruptive and his erratic behavior threatensthe safety of other parishioners.The northern Minnesota church has obtained a restraining order to keep Adam away,an action that has been deeply hurtful to the Race family and has brought them supportfrom parents of other autistic children."My son is not dangerous," Carol Race said. The church's action is"about a certain community's fears of him. Fears of danger versus actualdanger," she said.In court papers, church leaders say the danger is real. The Rev. Walz wrotein his petition for the restraining order that Adam - who already is more than 6feet tall and weighs more than 225 pounds - has hit a child, has nearly knocked over elderly parishioners while bolting from his pew, has spit at people and hasurinated in the church."His behavior at Mass is extremely disruptive and dangerous," wrote Walz."Adam is 13 and growing, so his behaviors grow increasingly difficult for hisparents to manage."Carol Race said Walz's claims are exaggerated."He's never actually injured anyone," she said. "He's neverknocked down anyone. He's never urinated on anyone or spit on anyone."Carol Race was cited for attending church May 11 in violation of the restrainingorder, and faces a hearing Monday. She says she can't afford a lawyer and willdefend herself in court. A lay mediator is scheduled to meet with her and churchboard members on Wednesday.Autism is a developmental disorder that affects a person's ability to communicateand interact with others. It is more severe in some people than others. Adam haslimited verbal skills.Walz did not return calls seeking comment, but Jane Marrin, who works for the Dioceseof St. Cloud and is acting as a spokeswoman for the parish, said the church boardtried working with the Races to find "reasonable accommodations." Thatincluded offering a video feed of Mass that could be watched in the church basement.The family refused all suggestions, she said."It's a difficult issue," Marrin said. "There are no easy answers."Carol Race dismissed the church's suggestion that Adam watch a video feed inthe church basement, saying that "does not have the same status as attendingMass. Otherwise we could all just sit home and watch it on TV and not bother to come in.""It's considered a sin in the Catholic church not to attend Mass on Sundaysand every holy day of obligation," she said. "And that's what thisis about. I'm just trying to fulfill my obligations."Adam is one of five children. The family's home in nearby Eagle Bend has separatestudy rooms so the other children can read books and use crayons that Adam couldotherwise destroy.Carol said Adam has two favorite spots in the house, the prayer room and the kitchentable. "He likes to eat," she said, laughing.Adam is prone to anxiety attacks. Carol said some of those outbursts force membersof the family to sit on him to calm him down, or restrain his hands and feet witha strip of felt.In his court petition, Walz said that after one service Adam got into another family'scar, started it and revved up the engine while there were people in front of thevehicle."Adam's continued presence on parish grounds not only endangers the parishioners,it is disruptive to the devout celebration of the Eucharist," Walz wrote. "Ihave repeatedly asked and Carol to keep Adam from church; they have refusedto do so."In fact, Carol told our parish council that she would have to be dragged fromchurch in handcuffs if I tried to keep Adam from attending Mass," he wrote.The Races have received support from other parents, including and Libby Rupp,who brought their autistic daughter from St. on Memorial Day weekend and satin the church's back pew normally occupied by the Races."I think this case is mostly about not understanding autism," Libby Ruppsaid. "I wanted to show them another example. Ultimately, we just need morepeople to truly understand autism."Rupp met the Races and said she could see why some people might be uncomfortablearound Adam, but she added: "Never at one point did I feel that anyone was in danger."=============================Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Re: Minn. mom fights church ban on her autistic son

This article came out a few weeks ago....I didn't post it on our group as it could be considered "off topic'

This is very distrubing for an autistic person to be legally excluded from church service.....surely everyone involved could have come up with sensible alternatives.

The attitude toward this family's challenges by a religious organization is offensive and contradictory....to say the least.

Jackiekarla walsh <faerie1952 > wrote:

http://news./s/ap/20080601/ap_on_re_us/church_autistic_child;_ylt=AvtncHg37saUas0IfscCQKtH2ocA

June 1, 2008

I agree with you Ruth.......it hard enough on parents to face daily challenges and critizism when you have a child with autism or 'odd behaviors'. My children go to church every sunday ( not a catholic church) and their behavior is awful at times.....my older son has asperger's and sensory issues...noise, lights and sounds can overwhelm him and my little guy complains of boredom and preferrs to explore around the church. They are a handful and often cause embarrasment to me and my husband. our congregation understands the issues that we face and they chip in to help. Our church has a children's room where the children go to learn and make crafts during the pastor's sermon. Only those children in third grade and up can sit for the service....and this makes sense since it really is hard on a little person to sit still for so long...any child! But if any child has an "issue' and needs to be removed

from the pews, they are taken for a walk, to the children's room or they can sit with someone else. Nobody say's go home The catholic church is far too stuffy and restrictive.....I remember! I'ts the contents of the bible that matters and the messenger should be mindful of it's contents.....The priest used the reason that service was being interrupted, he couldn't be heard.....this is no excuse for a restraining order........the congregation there should be deeply ashamed.putney1963@... wrote: Here is another article on this deeply disturbing issue. It was written by the some of a good friend of mine. I keep thinking and wondering where modern day religious teachings went astray from the teachings of acceptance that the man named Jesus taught. ????? I'd like to know how these people who have adopted such ideas, beliefs and policies can get away with calling themselves "Christian???" I'm embarressed in so many ways by this that it isn't even funny. ~~Ruth/REU ===================================Minn. mom fights church ban on her autistic sonBy DAVE KOLPACK (Associated Press Writer)From Associated PressJune 01, 2008 3:01 PM EDT BERTHA, Minn. - Carol Race thinks it's important for her 13-year-old son to be in church on Sundays for Catholic Mass.Leaders of the Church

of St. ph once felt the same way, but not anymore. Theysay Race's autistic son Adam is disruptive and his erratic behavior threatensthe safety of other parishioners.The northern Minnesota church has obtained a restraining order to keep Adam away,an action that has been deeply hurtful to the Race family and has brought them supportfrom parents of other autistic children."My son is not dangerous," Carol Race said. The church's action is"about a certain community's fears of him. Fears of danger versus actualdanger," she said.In court papers, church leaders say the danger is real. The Rev. Walz wrotein his petition for the restraining order that Adam - who already is more than 6feet tall and weighs more than 225 pounds - has hit a child, has nearly knocked over elderly parishioners while bolting from his pew, has spit at people and hasurinated in the church."His behavior at Mass is extremely

disruptive and dangerous," wrote Walz."Adam is 13 and growing, so his behaviors grow increasingly difficult for hisparents to manage."Carol Race said Walz's claims are exaggerated."He's never actually injured anyone," she said. "He's neverknocked down anyone. He's never urinated on anyone or spit on anyone."Carol Race was cited for attending church May 11 in violation of the restrainingorder, and faces a hearing Monday. She says she can't afford a lawyer and willdefend herself in court. A lay mediator is scheduled to meet with her and churchboard members on Wednesday.Autism is a developmental disorder that affects a person's ability to communicateand interact with others. It is more severe in some people than others. Adam haslimited verbal skills.Walz did not return calls seeking comment, but Jane Marrin, who works for the Dioceseof St. Cloud and is acting as a spokeswoman for the parish, said the

church boardtried working with the Races to find "reasonable accommodations." Thatincluded offering a video feed of Mass that could be watched in the church basement.The family refused all suggestions, she said."It's a difficult issue," Marrin said. "There are no easy answers."Carol Race dismissed the church's suggestion that Adam watch a video feed inthe church basement, saying that "does not have the same status as attendingMass. Otherwise we could all just sit home and watch it on TV and not bother to come in.""It's considered a sin in the Catholic church not to attend Mass on Sundaysand every holy day of obligation," she said. "And that's what thisis about. I'm just trying to fulfill my obligations."Adam is one of five children. The family's home in nearby Eagle Bend has separatestudy rooms so the other children can read books and use crayons that Adam couldotherwise

destroy.Carol said Adam has two favorite spots in the house, the prayer room and the kitchentable. "He likes to eat," she said, laughing.Adam is prone to anxiety attacks. Carol said some of those outbursts force membersof the family to sit on him to calm him down, or restrain his hands and feet witha strip of felt.In his court petition, Walz said that after one service Adam got into another family'scar, started it and revved up the engine while there were people in front of thevehicle."Adam's continued presence on parish grounds not only endangers the parishioners,it is disruptive to the devout celebration of the Eucharist," Walz wrote. "Ihave repeatedly asked and Carol to keep Adam from church; they have refusedto do so."In fact, Carol told our parish council that she would have to be dragged fromchurch in handcuffs if I tried to keep Adam from attending Mass," he wrote.The Races have

received support from other parents, including and Libby Rupp,who brought their autistic daughter from St. on Memorial Day weekend and satin the church's back pew normally occupied by the Races."I think this case is mostly about not understanding autism," Libby Ruppsaid. "I wanted to show them another example. Ultimately, we just need morepeople to truly understand autism."Rupp met the Races and said she could see why some people might be uncomfortablearound Adam, but she added: "Never at one point did I feel that anyone was in danger."=============================Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Re: Minn. mom fights church ban on her autistic son This article came out a few weeks ago....I didn't post it on our group as it could be considered "off topic' This is very distrubing for an autistic person to be legally excluded from church service.....surely everyone involved could have come up with sensible alternatives. The attitude toward this family's challenges by a religious organization is offensive and contradictory....to say the least. Jackiekarla walsh <faerie1952 > wrote: http://news./s/ap/20080601/ap_on_re_us/church_autistic_child;_ylt=AvtncHg37saUas0IfscCQKtH2ocA

June 1, 2008

I agree with you Ruth.......it hard enough on parents to face daily challenges and critizism when you have a child with autism or 'odd behaviors'. My children go to church every sunday ( not a catholic church) and their behavior is awful at times.....my older son has asperger's and sensory issues...noise, lights and sounds can overwhelm him and my little guy complains of boredom and preferrs to explore around the church. They are a handful and often cause embarrasment to me and my husband. our congregation understands the issues that we face and they chip in to help. Our church has a children's room where the children go to learn and make crafts during the pastor's sermon. Only those children in third grade and up can sit for the service....and this makes sense since it really is hard on a little person to sit still for so long...any child! But if any child has an "issue' and needs to be removed

from the pews, they are taken for a walk, to the children's room or they can sit with someone else. Nobody say's go home The catholic church is far too stuffy and restrictive.....I remember! I'ts the contents of the bible that matters and the messenger should be mindful of it's contents.....The priest used the reason that service was being interrupted, he couldn't be heard.....this is no excuse for a restraining order........the congregation there should be deeply ashamed.putney1963@... wrote: Here is another article on this deeply disturbing issue. It was written by the some of a good friend of mine. I keep thinking and wondering where modern day religious teachings went astray from the teachings of acceptance that the man named Jesus taught. ????? I'd like to know how these people who have adopted such ideas, beliefs and policies can get away with calling themselves "Christian???" I'm embarressed in so many ways by this that it isn't even funny. ~~Ruth/REU ===================================Minn. mom fights church ban on her autistic sonBy DAVE KOLPACK (Associated Press Writer)From Associated PressJune 01, 2008 3:01 PM EDT BERTHA, Minn. - Carol Race thinks it's important for her 13-year-old son to be in church on Sundays for Catholic Mass.Leaders of the Church

of St. ph once felt the same way, but not anymore. Theysay Race's autistic son Adam is disruptive and his erratic behavior threatensthe safety of other parishioners.The northern Minnesota church has obtained a restraining order to keep Adam away,an action that has been deeply hurtful to the Race family and has brought them supportfrom parents of other autistic children."My son is not dangerous," Carol Race said. The church's action is"about a certain community's fears of him. Fears of danger versus actualdanger," she said.In court papers, church leaders say the danger is real. The Rev. Walz wrotein his petition for the restraining order that Adam - who already is more than 6feet tall and weighs more than 225 pounds - has hit a child, has nearly knocked over elderly parishioners while bolting from his pew, has spit at people and hasurinated in the church."His behavior at Mass is extremely

disruptive and dangerous," wrote Walz."Adam is 13 and growing, so his behaviors grow increasingly difficult for hisparents to manage."Carol Race said Walz's claims are exaggerated."He's never actually injured anyone," she said. "He's neverknocked down anyone. He's never urinated on anyone or spit on anyone."Carol Race was cited for attending church May 11 in violation of the restrainingorder, and faces a hearing Monday. She says she can't afford a lawyer and willdefend herself in court. A lay mediator is scheduled to meet with her and churchboard members on Wednesday.Autism is a developmental disorder that affects a person's ability to communicateand interact with others. It is more severe in some people than others. Adam haslimited verbal skills.Walz did not return calls seeking comment, but Jane Marrin, who works for the Dioceseof St. Cloud and is acting as a spokeswoman for the parish, said the

church boardtried working with the Races to find "reasonable accommodations." Thatincluded offering a video feed of Mass that could be watched in the church basement.The family refused all suggestions, she said."It's a difficult issue," Marrin said. "There are no easy answers."Carol Race dismissed the church's suggestion that Adam watch a video feed inthe church basement, saying that "does not have the same status as attendingMass. Otherwise we could all just sit home and watch it on TV and not bother to come in.""It's considered a sin in the Catholic church not to attend Mass on Sundaysand every holy day of obligation," she said. "And that's what thisis about. I'm just trying to fulfill my obligations."Adam is one of five children. The family's home in nearby Eagle Bend has separatestudy rooms so the other children can read books and use crayons that Adam couldotherwise

destroy.Carol said Adam has two favorite spots in the house, the prayer room and the kitchentable. "He likes to eat," she said, laughing.Adam is prone to anxiety attacks. Carol said some of those outbursts force membersof the family to sit on him to calm him down, or restrain his hands and feet witha strip of felt.In his court petition, Walz said that after one service Adam got into another family'scar, started it and revved up the engine while there were people in front of thevehicle."Adam's continued presence on parish grounds not only endangers the parishioners,it is disruptive to the devout celebration of the Eucharist," Walz wrote. "Ihave repeatedly asked and Carol to keep Adam from church; they have refusedto do so."In fact, Carol told our parish council that she would have to be dragged fromchurch in handcuffs if I tried to keep Adam from attending Mass," he wrote.The Races have

received support from other parents, including and Libby Rupp,who brought their autistic daughter from St. on Memorial Day weekend and satin the church's back pew normally occupied by the Races."I think this case is mostly about not understanding autism," Libby Ruppsaid. "I wanted to show them another example. Ultimately, we just need morepeople to truly understand autism."Rupp met the Races and said she could see why some people might be uncomfortablearound Adam, but she added: "Never at one point did I feel that anyone was in danger."=============================Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Re: Minn. mom fights church ban on her autistic son This article came out a few weeks ago....I didn't post it on our group as it could be considered "off topic' This is very distrubing for an autistic person to be legally excluded from church service.....surely everyone involved could have come up with sensible alternatives. The attitude toward this family's challenges by a religious organization is offensive and contradictory....to say the least. Jackiekarla walsh <faerie1952 > wrote: http://news./s/ap/20080601/ap_on_re_us/church_autistic_child;_ylt=AvtncHg37saUas0IfscCQKtH2ocA

June 2, 2008

I'm all for inclusion but this child pissed in the church and spit. I can understand the knocking people over, but what would you have had the church do. I am quite sure that they tried other methods, the mother herself said that she refused to put him in another room, even though that's exactly what she does at home for the sake of her other children!! How contradictory is that?

Re: [no-forced-vaccinat ion] Minn. mom fights church ban on her autistic son

This article came out a few weeks ago....I didn't post it on our group as it could be considered "off topic'

This is very distrubing for an autistic person to be legally excluded from church service..... surely everyone involved could have come up with sensible alternatives.

The attitude toward this family's challenges by a religious organization is offensive and contradictory. ...to say the least.

Jackiekarla walsh <faerie1952 (DOT) com> wrote:

http://news. / s/ap/20080601/ ap_on_re_ us/church_ autistic_ child;_ylt= AvtncHg37saUas0I fscCQKtH2ocA

June 2, 2008

I'm all for inclusion but this child pissed in the church and spit. I can understand the knocking people over, but what would you have had the church do. I am quite sure that they tried other methods, the mother herself said that she refused to put him in another room, even though that's exactly what she does at home for the sake of her other children!! How contradictory is that?

Re: [no-forced-vaccinat ion] Minn. mom fights church ban on her autistic son

This article came out a few weeks ago....I didn't post it on our group as it could be considered "off topic'

This is very distrubing for an autistic person to be legally excluded from church service..... surely everyone involved could have come up with sensible alternatives.

The attitude toward this family's challenges by a religious organization is offensive and contradictory. ...to say the least.

Jackiekarla walsh <faerie1952 (DOT) com> wrote:

http://news. / s/ap/20080601/ ap_on_re_ us/church_ autistic_ child;_ylt= AvtncHg37saUas0I fscCQKtH2ocA

June 2, 2008

Hullo anna. I think there is a principle at stake here. Years ago, people with disabilities were generally hidden away or institutionalized. And the parents or guardians suffered in silence, caring for them, or trying to, physically, emotionally and financially. With more and more sick kids these days, and with autism spectrum in 1 in 150, society has to make room for all these damaged children and adults with special needs and problems. Schools are somewhat doing their part in trying to educate the educatable, even if it just appears to be babysitting at the taxpayers expense. Cities and buildings, etc. are making accessability better. Children and adults seen with disabilites are more commonplace these days. But the point is, if churches and organizations and society sits in judgement of who is acceptable, or who MAY create a danger, there lays the esoteric problem. Fear-mongerers

will prevail. And as I mentioned before, where does it end? Do they get to tell us our unvaccinated children are not allowed in society, because they Might be Dangerous? They certainly are Trying! Perfectly normal seeming people can be Dangerous, without outward signs. That this one or that one is too disfigured or obese, etc, to be seen? These are predjudices like all the others, mostly grown out of fears. There are all kinds of people in the world. Nobody has the right to value their worth. or potential Danger to society. That is the propoganda of the herd mentality. And that is the scary part. IT all contributes to selective segregation.and all the woes of those attempts. History keeps repeating. We dont seem to learn anything much from our past. Man's inhumanity to man. The mother of this autistic son denies that he even did these accused of things. We weren't there.

We don't know. Does a story make us privy to be judge, jury and hangman? OR to pick a side? But she is fighting for her and her childs rights, first of all, and has been denied. Sure, there may be need for a different solution. Help with watching him in a church setting. But banning him from the premises and communty is not the answer. Autistic or not, I am sure he feels that he does not fit in. How many of us have not felt that feeling at some points in our lives, that we aren't good enough, or worthy. Why are suicides so rampant, esp. in our young people? Modern advertisements add to those feelings that we arent pretty enough, smart enough, popular enough, fashionable enough, ETC ETC. It is the same fight we at No_Forced_Vaccinations are fighting. We are fighting for our rights. So I guess we have to remember not to forget about other's personal rights too. None of us wants to be judged for our ideas and values, our

religion or color, lifestyles and choices, let alone be bannished. That type of cast system and superior KKK-like attitudes has never gotten anyone anywhere. It just incites anger and riots and rebellions and wars and tears, that should never have had to happen. Yet they do, and they have, and they will. Predjudice is the downside to human nature, and is the basis to most wars and discourse. That eternal fight for human rights to chose and live the way we want. . And each of us have our own battles, with wins and losses. None of us want to lose those things we hold dear. Nor to have one Universal mind oppressed on us. We are Not the Sheeple YET! Glad Day ~ Karla in IL

June 2, 2008

Hullo anna. I think there is a principle at stake here. Years ago, people with disabilities were generally hidden away or institutionalized. And the parents or guardians suffered in silence, caring for them, or trying to, physically, emotionally and financially. With more and more sick kids these days, and with autism spectrum in 1 in 150, society has to make room for all these damaged children and adults with special needs and problems. Schools are somewhat doing their part in trying to educate the educatable, even if it just appears to be babysitting at the taxpayers expense. Cities and buildings, etc. are making accessability better. Children and adults seen with disabilites are more commonplace these days. But the point is, if churches and organizations and society sits in judgement of who is acceptable, or who MAY create a danger, there lays the esoteric problem. Fear-mongerers

will prevail. And as I mentioned before, where does it end? Do they get to tell us our unvaccinated children are not allowed in society, because they Might be Dangerous? They certainly are Trying! Perfectly normal seeming people can be Dangerous, without outward signs. That this one or that one is too disfigured or obese, etc, to be seen? These are predjudices like all the others, mostly grown out of fears. There are all kinds of people in the world. Nobody has the right to value their worth. or potential Danger to society. That is the propoganda of the herd mentality. And that is the scary part. IT all contributes to selective segregation.and all the woes of those attempts. History keeps repeating. We dont seem to learn anything much from our past. Man's inhumanity to man. The mother of this autistic son denies that he even did these accused of things. We weren't there.

We don't know. Does a story make us privy to be judge, jury and hangman? OR to pick a side? But she is fighting for her and her childs rights, first of all, and has been denied. Sure, there may be need for a different solution. Help with watching him in a church setting. But banning him from the premises and communty is not the answer. Autistic or not, I am sure he feels that he does not fit in. How many of us have not felt that feeling at some points in our lives, that we aren't good enough, or worthy. Why are suicides so rampant, esp. in our young people? Modern advertisements add to those feelings that we arent pretty enough, smart enough, popular enough, fashionable enough, ETC ETC. It is the same fight we at No_Forced_Vaccinations are fighting. We are fighting for our rights. So I guess we have to remember not to forget about other's personal rights too. None of us wants to be judged for our ideas and values, our

religion or color, lifestyles and choices, let alone be bannished. That type of cast system and superior KKK-like attitudes has never gotten anyone anywhere. It just incites anger and riots and rebellions and wars and tears, that should never have had to happen. Yet they do, and they have, and they will. Predjudice is the downside to human nature, and is the basis to most wars and discourse. That eternal fight for human rights to chose and live the way we want. . And each of us have our own battles, with wins and losses. None of us want to lose those things we hold dear. Nor to have one Universal mind oppressed on us. We are Not the Sheeple YET! Glad Day ~ Karla in IL

June 2, 2008

Agree with your points. However, the way I read the article the mother stated that he did "not spit ON ANYONE" not that he didn't spit. And that he did not urinate "on anyone" not that he didn't urinate in the church (and clearly not in a toilet).

I have a mentally ill brother who refuses to get treatment and cannot function in normal society. I do not subject my children to him because of his actions. I do not see how this is too far from that, only my brother is schizophrenic and this is autism. The end result is behavior that is unwarranted, uncontrollable and dangerous.

Would you allow this behavior from anyone else? I wouldn't.

And why on earth would it be OKAY for this mother to make her son be in a room by himself at home, but not at church? No one has answered that part of it.

If a child was bi-polar and dangerous are we saying that's okay too, we should just understand?

Sorry, can't buy off on it and I regularly sit through church with two young men who are Down's Syndrome very badly. They make strange noises, they eat while the preacher is talking and they have a tendency to turn and stare. However, they have never pissed in church or spit and they do their very best to be polite. There is a world of difference.

Re: OFF TOPIC???? Minn. mom fights church ban on her autistic son

Hullo anna. I think there is a principle at stake here. Years ago, people with disabilities were generally hidden away or institutionalized. And the parents or guardians suffered in silence, caring for them, or trying to, physically, emotionally and financially.

With more and more sick kids these days, and with autism spectrum in 1 in 150, society has to make room for all these damaged children and adults with special needs and problems. Schools are somewhat doing their part in trying to educate the educatable, even if it just appears to be babysitting at the taxpayers expense. Cities and buildings, etc. are making accessability better.

Children and adults seen with disabilites are more commonplace these days. But the point is, if churches and organizations and society sits in judgement of who is acceptable, or who MAY create a danger, there lays the esoteric problem. Fear-mongerers will prevail.

And as I mentioned before, where does it end? Do they get to tell us our unvaccinated children are not allowed in society, because they Might be Dangerous? They certainly are Trying! Perfectly normal seeming people can be Dangerous, without outward signs.

That this one or that one is too disfigured or obese, etc, to be seen? These are predjudices like all the others, mostly grown out of fears. There are all kinds of people in the world. Nobody has the right to value their worth. or potential Danger to society. That is the propoganda of the herd mentality. And that is the scary part. IT all contributes to selective segregation. and all the woes of those attempts. History keeps repeating. We dont seem to learn anything much from our past. Man's inhumanity to man.

The mother of this autistic son denies that he even did these accused of things. We weren't there. We don't know. Does a story make us privy to be judge, jury and hangman? OR to pick a side? But she is fighting for her and her childs rights, first of all, and has been denied. Sure, there may be need for a different solution. Help with watching him in a church setting. But banning him from the premises and communty is not the answer. Autistic or not, I am sure he feels that he does not fit in. How many of us have not felt that feeling at some points in our lives, that we aren't good enough, or worthy. Why are suicides so rampant, esp. in our young people? Modern advertisements add to those feelings that we arent pretty enough, smart enough, popular enough, fashionable enough, ETC ETC.

It is the same fight we at No_Forced_Vaccinati ons are fighting. We are fighting for our rights. So I guess we have to remember not to forget about other's personal rights too. None of us wants to be judged for our ideas and values, our religion or color, lifestyles and choices, let alone be bannished. That type of cast system and superior KKK-like attitudes has never gotten anyone anywhere. It just incites anger and riots and rebellions and wars and tears, that should never have had to happen. Yet they do, and they have, and they will. Predjudice is the downside to human nature, and is the basis to most wars and discourse. That eternal fight for human rights to chose and live the way we want.

.. And each of us have our own battles, with wins and losses. None of us want to lose those things we hold dear. Nor to have one Universal mind oppressed on us. We are Not the Sheeple YET!

Glad Day ~ Karla in IL

June 2, 2008

Sorry Karla,

I guess I have been saying pretty much what you have already been

stating..

I cant keep up with reading posts and writing them while they are

happening..

Just wanted to let you know that I TOTALLY agree with what you are

saying, Karla!!!!

Kudos!!!

>

> Hullo anna. I think there is a principle at stake here. Years

ago, people with disabilities were generally hidden away or

institutionalized. And the parents or guardians suffered in silence,

caring for them, or trying to, physically, emotionally and

financially.

> With more and more sick kids these days, and with autism

spectrum in 1 in 150, society has to make room for all these damaged

children and adults with special needs and problems. Schools are

somewhat doing their part in trying to educate the educatable, even

if it just appears to be babysitting at the taxpayers expense. Cities

and buildings, etc. are making accessability better.

> Children and adults seen with disabilites are more commonplace

these days. But the point is, if churches and organizations and

society sits in judgement of who is acceptable, or who MAY create a

danger, there lays the esoteric problem. Fear-mongerers will prevail.

> And as I mentioned before, where does it end? Do they get to

tell us our unvaccinated children are not allowed in society, because

they Might be Dangerous? They certainly are Trying! Perfectly

normal seeming people can be Dangerous, without outward signs.

> That this one or that one is too disfigured or obese, etc, to be

seen? These are predjudices like all the others, mostly grown out of

fears. There are all kinds of people in the world. Nobody has the

right to value their worth. or potential Danger to society. That is

the propoganda of the herd mentality. And that is the scary part.

IT all contributes to selective segregation.and all the woes of those

attempts. History keeps repeating. We dont seem to learn anything

much from our past. Man's inhumanity to man.

> The mother of this autistic son denies that he even did these

accused of things. We weren't there. We don't know. Does a story

make us privy to be judge, jury and hangman? OR to pick a side? But

she is fighting for her and her childs rights, first of all, and has

been denied. Sure, there may be need for a different solution. Help

with watching him in a church setting. But banning him from the

premises and communty is not the answer. Autistic or not, I am sure

he feels that he does not fit in. How many of us have not felt that

feeling at some points in our lives, that we aren't good enough, or

worthy. Why are suicides so rampant, esp. in our young people?

Modern advertisements add to those feelings that we arent pretty

enough, smart enough, popular enough, fashionable enough, ETC ETC.

> It is the same fight we at No_Forced_Vaccinations are fighting.

We are fighting for our rights. So I guess we have to remember not to

forget about other's personal rights too. None of us wants to be

judged for our ideas and values, our religion or color, lifestyles

and choices, let alone be bannished. That type of cast system and

superior KKK-like attitudes has never gotten anyone anywhere. It

just incites anger and riots and rebellions and wars and tears, that

should never have had to happen. Yet they do, and they have, and they

will. Predjudice is the downside to human nature, and is the basis

to most wars and discourse. That eternal fight for human rights to

chose and live the way we want.

> . And each of us have our own battles, with wins and losses. None

of us want to lose those things we hold dear. Nor to have one

Universal mind oppressed on us. We are Not the Sheeple YET!

> Glad Day ~ Karla in IL

>

June 2, 2008