Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 You're absolutely right! I agree that street drugs causes insanity. A topic I want to further research. Gab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 An agent provocateur....PR working for a drug company? Oh dear, well, I would probably be making more money if I were doing that What exactly would I be getting out of being on this list if I was doing that? I can see you are really angry and hurt by whatever harm drugs have caused to you or one of your family members, and I'm really sorry about that. I can understand you being scheptical about me and I can understant that as you don't know me. I guess if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't be to fond of anyone in the mental health field either. Again, I'm really sorry about all the pain you are going through. Gab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 An agent provocateur....PR working for a drug company? Oh dear, well, I would probably be making more money if I were doing that What exactly would I be getting out of being on this list if I was doing that? I can see you are really angry and hurt by whatever harm drugs have caused to you or one of your family members, and I'm really sorry about that. I can understand you being scheptical about me and I can understant that as you don't know me. I guess if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't be to fond of anyone in the mental health field either. Again, I'm really sorry about all the pain you are going through. Gab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Thank you, Jay. I will take your suggestions. Gab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Thank you, Jay. I will take your suggestions. Gab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Yeah, I have a thought. You're an agent provocateur. I had you pegged the second you started babbling here. You're no licensed mental health counselor. You may very well be a PR though working for a drug company. Rabin Strategic Partners is it? > > > > > Okay, this is what I was told by other therapists at our > facility. > > Please don't shoot the messanger....that's me! I'm only relaying > what I was told. > > Some of you may have already heard this, but I was told that many > > individuals who are in deep depression are already suicidal but they > don't have the > > strength to cary out the act. So, when they are put on medication, > their mood is > > slowly elevated. There is a point during this process when they > have not yet > > reached peak elevation from the medication, but are somewhere in mid > > range....giving them more energy, but yet they are still suicidal. > This is the time > > frame that some people carry out suicidal acts and need to be under > close > > observation. In other words, it is thought that the drug is not > causing the > > suicidal act, because these individuals have been suicidal, so the > drug is only > > increasing their mood elevation to the degree that they now have > enough strangth to > > cary out the act. Any thoughts? I'm open to opposing view points. > > > > Gab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Yeah, I have a thought. You're an agent provocateur. I had you pegged the second you started babbling here. You're no licensed mental health counselor. You may very well be a PR though working for a drug company. Rabin Strategic Partners is it? > > > > > Okay, this is what I was told by other therapists at our > facility. > > Please don't shoot the messanger....that's me! I'm only relaying > what I was told. > > Some of you may have already heard this, but I was told that many > > individuals who are in deep depression are already suicidal but they > don't have the > > strength to cary out the act. So, when they are put on medication, > their mood is > > slowly elevated. There is a point during this process when they > have not yet > > reached peak elevation from the medication, but are somewhere in mid > > range....giving them more energy, but yet they are still suicidal. > This is the time > > frame that some people carry out suicidal acts and need to be under > close > > observation. In other words, it is thought that the drug is not > causing the > > suicidal act, because these individuals have been suicidal, so the > drug is only > > increasing their mood elevation to the degree that they now have > enough strangth to > > cary out the act. Any thoughts? I'm open to opposing view points. > > > > Gab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Yeah, I have a thought. You're an agent provocateur. I had you pegged the second you started babbling here. You're no licensed mental health counselor. You may very well be a PR though working for a drug company. Rabin Strategic Partners is it? > > > > > Okay, this is what I was told by other therapists at our > facility. > > Please don't shoot the messanger....that's me! I'm only relaying > what I was told. > > Some of you may have already heard this, but I was told that many > > individuals who are in deep depression are already suicidal but they > don't have the > > strength to cary out the act. So, when they are put on medication, > their mood is > > slowly elevated. There is a point during this process when they > have not yet > > reached peak elevation from the medication, but are somewhere in mid > > range....giving them more energy, but yet they are still suicidal. > This is the time > > frame that some people carry out suicidal acts and need to be under > close > > observation. In other words, it is thought that the drug is not > causing the > > suicidal act, because these individuals have been suicidal, so the > drug is only > > increasing their mood elevation to the degree that they now have > enough strangth to > > cary out the act. Any thoughts? I'm open to opposing view points. > > > > Gab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Yeah, I have a thought. You're an agent provocateur. I had you pegged the second you started babbling here. You're no licensed mental health counselor. You may very well be a PR though working for a drug company. Rabin Strategic Partners is it? > > > > > Okay, this is what I was told by other therapists at our > facility. > > Please don't shoot the messanger....that's me! I'm only relaying > what I was told. > > Some of you may have already heard this, but I was told that many > > individuals who are in deep depression are already suicidal but they > don't have the > > strength to cary out the act. So, when they are put on medication, > their mood is > > slowly elevated. There is a point during this process when they > have not yet > > reached peak elevation from the medication, but are somewhere in mid > > range....giving them more energy, but yet they are still suicidal. > This is the time > > frame that some people carry out suicidal acts and need to be under > close > > observation. In other words, it is thought that the drug is not > causing the > > suicidal act, because these individuals have been suicidal, so the > drug is only > > increasing their mood elevation to the degree that they now have > enough strangth to > > cary out the act. Any thoughts? I'm open to opposing view points. > > > > Gab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Gab, Sounds good on paper; however, this is not the way it works. At least not for me. I was given Effexor off label without being told what it was. I was not depressed; I was not suicidal. Within the first week of taking it, I became suicidal as well as depressed and stayed that way for the whole 6 years I was on it. It also lowered my activity/energy level to almost zip which is probably why I never actually carried out a suicide attempt. I didn't have the energy to do it. Just the opposite of what you were told. > > Okay, this is what I was told by other therapists at our facility. > Please don't shoot the messanger....that's me! I'm only relaying what I was told. > Some of you may have already heard this, but I was told that many > individuals who are in deep depression are already suicidal but they don't have the > strength to cary out the act. So, when they are put on medication, their mood is > slowly elevated. There is a point during this process when they have not yet > reached peak elevation from the medication, but are somewhere in mid > range....giving them more energy, but yet they are still suicidal. This is the time > frame that some people carry out suicidal acts and need to be under close > observation. In other words, it is thought that the drug is not causing the > suicidal act, because these individuals have been suicidal, so the drug is only > increasing their mood elevation to the degree that they now have enough strangth to > cary out the act. Any thoughts? I'm open to opposing view points. > > Gab > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Gab, Sounds good on paper; however, this is not the way it works. At least not for me. I was given Effexor off label without being told what it was. I was not depressed; I was not suicidal. Within the first week of taking it, I became suicidal as well as depressed and stayed that way for the whole 6 years I was on it. It also lowered my activity/energy level to almost zip which is probably why I never actually carried out a suicide attempt. I didn't have the energy to do it. Just the opposite of what you were told. > > Okay, this is what I was told by other therapists at our facility. > Please don't shoot the messanger....that's me! I'm only relaying what I was told. > Some of you may have already heard this, but I was told that many > individuals who are in deep depression are already suicidal but they don't have the > strength to cary out the act. So, when they are put on medication, their mood is > slowly elevated. There is a point during this process when they have not yet > reached peak elevation from the medication, but are somewhere in mid > range....giving them more energy, but yet they are still suicidal. This is the time > frame that some people carry out suicidal acts and need to be under close > observation. In other words, it is thought that the drug is not causing the > suicidal act, because these individuals have been suicidal, so the drug is only > increasing their mood elevation to the degree that they now have enough strangth to > cary out the act. Any thoughts? I'm open to opposing view points. > > Gab > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 The position of the UK Governments medical regulator is that suicidal ideation can be caused where there was no suicidal ideation before initiation of, change of or termination of treatment with ANY antidepressant > > > > Okay, this is what I was told by other therapists at our > facility. > > Please don't shoot the messanger....that's me! I'm only relaying > what I was told. > > Some of you may have already heard this, but I was told that many > > individuals who are in deep depression are already suicidal but > they don't have the > > strength to cary out the act. So, when they are put on medication, > their mood is > > slowly elevated. There is a point during this process when they > have not yet > > reached peak elevation from the medication, but are somewhere in > mid > > range....giving them more energy, but yet they are still suicidal. > This is the time > > frame that some people carry out suicidal acts and need to be under > close > > observation. In other words, it is thought that the drug is not > causing the > > suicidal act, because these individuals have been suicidal, so the > drug is only > > increasing their mood elevation to the degree that they now have > enough strangth to > > cary out the act. Any thoughts? I'm open to opposing view points. > > > > Gab > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 The position of the UK Governments medical regulator is that suicidal ideation can be caused where there was no suicidal ideation before initiation of, change of or termination of treatment with ANY antidepressant > > > > Okay, this is what I was told by other therapists at our > facility. > > Please don't shoot the messanger....that's me! I'm only relaying > what I was told. > > Some of you may have already heard this, but I was told that many > > individuals who are in deep depression are already suicidal but > they don't have the > > strength to cary out the act. So, when they are put on medication, > their mood is > > slowly elevated. There is a point during this process when they > have not yet > > reached peak elevation from the medication, but are somewhere in > mid > > range....giving them more energy, but yet they are still suicidal. > This is the time > > frame that some people carry out suicidal acts and need to be under > close > > observation. In other words, it is thought that the drug is not > causing the > > suicidal act, because these individuals have been suicidal, so the > drug is only > > increasing their mood elevation to the degree that they now have > enough strangth to > > cary out the act. Any thoughts? I'm open to opposing view points. > > > > Gab > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 The position of the UK Governments medical regulator is that suicidal ideation can be caused where there was no suicidal ideation before initiation of, change of or termination of treatment with ANY antidepressant > > > > Okay, this is what I was told by other therapists at our > facility. > > Please don't shoot the messanger....that's me! I'm only relaying > what I was told. > > Some of you may have already heard this, but I was told that many > > individuals who are in deep depression are already suicidal but > they don't have the > > strength to cary out the act. So, when they are put on medication, > their mood is > > slowly elevated. There is a point during this process when they > have not yet > > reached peak elevation from the medication, but are somewhere in > mid > > range....giving them more energy, but yet they are still suicidal. > This is the time > > frame that some people carry out suicidal acts and need to be under > close > > observation. In other words, it is thought that the drug is not > causing the > > suicidal act, because these individuals have been suicidal, so the > drug is only > > increasing their mood elevation to the degree that they now have > enough strangth to > > cary out the act. Any thoughts? I'm open to opposing view points. > > > > Gab > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 The position of the UK Governments medical regulator is that suicidal ideation can be caused where there was no suicidal ideation before initiation of, change of or termination of treatment with ANY antidepressant > > > > Okay, this is what I was told by other therapists at our > facility. > > Please don't shoot the messanger....that's me! I'm only relaying > what I was told. > > Some of you may have already heard this, but I was told that many > > individuals who are in deep depression are already suicidal but > they don't have the > > strength to cary out the act. So, when they are put on medication, > their mood is > > slowly elevated. There is a point during this process when they > have not yet > > reached peak elevation from the medication, but are somewhere in > mid > > range....giving them more energy, but yet they are still suicidal. > This is the time > > frame that some people carry out suicidal acts and need to be under > close > > observation. In other words, it is thought that the drug is not > causing the > > suicidal act, because these individuals have been suicidal, so the > drug is only > > increasing their mood elevation to the degree that they now have > enough strangth to > > cary out the act. Any thoughts? I'm open to opposing view points. > > > > Gab > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Gab, So anytime you give someone an antidepressant your playing russian roulette with their lives. Especially when you consider that there are many, many ways to help people feel better from diet and exercise to vitamins and other nutrients. I have a strong feeling that these violently insane people you treat are on the whole victims of the treatment they received back when they were not so violent. Here's some mind blowing statements: There are no chemical imbalances that can be tested for or measured. After much pressure the prez of the APA finally admitted, still in double-speak, " there is no clear cut test " . There are no genes that cause mental illness. I looked at all the studies that made it to press, " gene found for ADHD " " depression gene found " when reading the study it was not conclusive and later not reproducable. Which is interesting because the public is left with the notion that genes are the cause of mental illness and never corrected. The gene for schizophrenia is found about every two years, what happened to the last 10 genes found to cause schizophrenia, they don't ever get mentioned again. There are genetic defects that can cause Tourettes Syndrome and X Syndrome etc that affect mental ability but not the fluctuating symptoms of depression, manic depression and ADHD. Another unproven theory used to sell drugs. I bet a study of the insane and the use of mind altering drugs would find some interesting statistics. Booze, weed, street drugs probably cause more crime and insanity than anything else and yet the psychiatrist answer is to drug them even more when they shoud probably be detoxed to make them sane again. The position of the UK Governments medical regulator is that suicidal ideation can be caused where there was no suicidal ideation before initiation of, change of or termination of treatment with ANY antidepressant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Gab, So anytime you give someone an antidepressant your playing russian roulette with their lives. Especially when you consider that there are many, many ways to help people feel better from diet and exercise to vitamins and other nutrients. I have a strong feeling that these violently insane people you treat are on the whole victims of the treatment they received back when they were not so violent. Here's some mind blowing statements: There are no chemical imbalances that can be tested for or measured. After much pressure the prez of the APA finally admitted, still in double-speak, " there is no clear cut test " . There are no genes that cause mental illness. I looked at all the studies that made it to press, " gene found for ADHD " " depression gene found " when reading the study it was not conclusive and later not reproducable. Which is interesting because the public is left with the notion that genes are the cause of mental illness and never corrected. The gene for schizophrenia is found about every two years, what happened to the last 10 genes found to cause schizophrenia, they don't ever get mentioned again. There are genetic defects that can cause Tourettes Syndrome and X Syndrome etc that affect mental ability but not the fluctuating symptoms of depression, manic depression and ADHD. Another unproven theory used to sell drugs. I bet a study of the insane and the use of mind altering drugs would find some interesting statistics. Booze, weed, street drugs probably cause more crime and insanity than anything else and yet the psychiatrist answer is to drug them even more when they shoud probably be detoxed to make them sane again. The position of the UK Governments medical regulator is that suicidal ideation can be caused where there was no suicidal ideation before initiation of, change of or termination of treatment with ANY antidepressant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Gab, So anytime you give someone an antidepressant your playing russian roulette with their lives. Especially when you consider that there are many, many ways to help people feel better from diet and exercise to vitamins and other nutrients. I have a strong feeling that these violently insane people you treat are on the whole victims of the treatment they received back when they were not so violent. Here's some mind blowing statements: There are no chemical imbalances that can be tested for or measured. After much pressure the prez of the APA finally admitted, still in double-speak, " there is no clear cut test " . There are no genes that cause mental illness. I looked at all the studies that made it to press, " gene found for ADHD " " depression gene found " when reading the study it was not conclusive and later not reproducable. Which is interesting because the public is left with the notion that genes are the cause of mental illness and never corrected. The gene for schizophrenia is found about every two years, what happened to the last 10 genes found to cause schizophrenia, they don't ever get mentioned again. There are genetic defects that can cause Tourettes Syndrome and X Syndrome etc that affect mental ability but not the fluctuating symptoms of depression, manic depression and ADHD. Another unproven theory used to sell drugs. I bet a study of the insane and the use of mind altering drugs would find some interesting statistics. Booze, weed, street drugs probably cause more crime and insanity than anything else and yet the psychiatrist answer is to drug them even more when they shoud probably be detoxed to make them sane again. The position of the UK Governments medical regulator is that suicidal ideation can be caused where there was no suicidal ideation before initiation of, change of or termination of treatment with ANY antidepressant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Gab, So anytime you give someone an antidepressant your playing russian roulette with their lives. Especially when you consider that there are many, many ways to help people feel better from diet and exercise to vitamins and other nutrients. I have a strong feeling that these violently insane people you treat are on the whole victims of the treatment they received back when they were not so violent. Here's some mind blowing statements: There are no chemical imbalances that can be tested for or measured. After much pressure the prez of the APA finally admitted, still in double-speak, " there is no clear cut test " . There are no genes that cause mental illness. I looked at all the studies that made it to press, " gene found for ADHD " " depression gene found " when reading the study it was not conclusive and later not reproducable. Which is interesting because the public is left with the notion that genes are the cause of mental illness and never corrected. The gene for schizophrenia is found about every two years, what happened to the last 10 genes found to cause schizophrenia, they don't ever get mentioned again. There are genetic defects that can cause Tourettes Syndrome and X Syndrome etc that affect mental ability but not the fluctuating symptoms of depression, manic depression and ADHD. Another unproven theory used to sell drugs. I bet a study of the insane and the use of mind altering drugs would find some interesting statistics. Booze, weed, street drugs probably cause more crime and insanity than anything else and yet the psychiatrist answer is to drug them even more when they shoud probably be detoxed to make them sane again. The position of the UK Governments medical regulator is that suicidal ideation can be caused where there was no suicidal ideation before initiation of, change of or termination of treatment with ANY antidepressant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Gab If you want to learn as much as possible about the dangers of these drugs then go to www.drugawareness.org and order Dr. Ann Blake 's book, " Prozac, Panacea or Pandora " . Dr. Glenmullen's book, " Prozac Backlash is also a wealth of info. Go to Dr. Glenmullen's website, www.prozacbacklash.com www.alternativementalhealth.com as over a hundred article that explain the possible cause of mental illness. Hypoglycemia for example is the problem that caused my own families bout with depression and anxiety and problem with a number of SSRI medications. You can find my son Corey Baadsgaard's story at www.antidepressantsfacts.com click on casualties scroll down to antidepressants & teen's who kill. Fortunately Corey did harm anyone and was released on probation. He still has no memory of that day. www.prozactruth.com www.breggin.com Jay Baadsgaard Washington State Director International Coalition for Drugawareness --- Gabdud@... wrote: > Joh, > > Please read my earlier emails. I don't have > the energy to argue and > defend myself anymore on this list. I am NOT with a > drug company! I am a bran > new mental health therapist who is AGAINST using > drugs in therapy. I'm on > this list because I want to gain knowledge in the > effects of SSRI medication. > If I'm NOT going to advocate using drugs in therapy, > then I better have solid > reasons for my decision. Just saying that I don't > believe in using drugs and > not being able to back up my decision with facts > will not fly. That will make > me look like an idiot! So, I'm presenting questions > to the group based on > what I have been taught in school and at work in > order to hear the other side of > the story. This is the only way I will gain > knowledge. If I only consult > with other therapists, then I'm not getting YOUR > side of the story. Telling me > to get educated somewhere else and not on this group > may not be the best advice > as I feel that people on this group have a wealth of > information to share > that exposes the truth. You're basically telling > someone who cares to take a > hike! How about helping me gain knowledge so that I > can do things the right way? > That way I can help my patients without sending > them to the shrink to dope > them up. As for me not being educated, I graduated > from the master's LPC > program with a 3.97 GPA and will be starting the > doctoral program next fall. I'm > just not satisfied with my eduation and would like > to further my knowledge the > unconventional way.....listening to stories that > real people have to share. > > Gab > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __________________________________ Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music./unlimited/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Thank you, . I have to do what is right! I could have made tons of money by becoming a Class B Dealer and selling animals for research, but in that case I chose to do what I felt was right and instead I ended up spending thousands of dollars in vet work for animals that I rescued from the hands of sadistic drug companies. I have no regrets. I can sleep at night! Gab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 I suspect you will be more than unpopular...you may find it hard to keep a job. > > Thank you for sharing your story. This is what I need to hear to > back up my decision for not using drugs in therapy. I'm sure I'm going to be > rather unpopular with other therapists in how I treat patients, but oh well. > > Gab > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 I suspect you will be more than unpopular...you may find it hard to keep a job. > > Thank you for sharing your story. This is what I need to hear to > back up my decision for not using drugs in therapy. I'm sure I'm going to be > rather unpopular with other therapists in how I treat patients, but oh well. > > Gab > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Dear Gab, You said: Okay, this is what I was told by other therapists at our facility. Please don't shoot the messanger....that's me! I'm only relaying what I was told. Some of you may have already heard this, but I was told that many individuals who are in deep depression are already suicidal but they don't have the strength to cary out the act. So, when they are put on medication, their mood is slowly elevated. There is a point during this process when they have not yet reached peak elevation from the medication, but are somewhere in mid range....giving them more energy, but yet they are still suicidal. This is the time frame that some people carry out suicidal acts and need to be under close observation. In other words, it is thought that the drug is not causing the suicidal act, because these individuals have been suicidal, so the drug is only increasing their mood elevation to the degree that they now have enough strangth to cary out the act. Any thoughts? I'm open to opposing view points>> ** This is one of those kinds of explanations that is given without any thought whatsoever. Someone once wrote or said this (probably a drug company) and it has become the party line ever since. It's like a doll wher cyou pull the string and it speaks from a limited repertoire. This is poor reasoning for several reasons. First, not all people are suicidal when depressed. Next, not all depression is vegetative; some depression is agitated so the energy to commit the act is already there. Finally, not all people who have become suicidal or hostile on ADs have been depressed (see Healey's writing on this about his small trial giving ADs to non-depressed people and look at theclinical trials using non-depressed subjects). -- Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Dear Gab, You said: <<Thank you for sharing your story. This is what I need to hear to back up my decision for not using drugs in therapy. I'm sure I'm going to be rather unpopular with other therapists in how I treat patients, but oh well.>> ** You're right; you won't be popular at all. In fact, people will try to discredit you and will ostracize you. Be prepared. The up side is that you won't be contributing to the harm being done, you will be vindicated some day, and in the meantime, you'll be able to sleep well at night. -- Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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