Re: Lexapro and Celexa no more effective in children than a placebo.

[Guest guest]

My son tried to kill himself in a psychotic rage induced by Celexa. I

reported it to Medwatch but since I'm just a parent it was probably

dicounted. What do parents know.

[Guest guest]

my daughter has just started on celexa and both my wife and I are

extremely worried. can't tell you much right now but she is such bad

shape she's been hospitalized and has only suicide on her mind. we

are not sure if this stems from withdrawal effects from zoloft or the

celexa.

> My son tried to kill himself in a psychotic rage induced by

Celexa. I

> reported it to Medwatch but since I'm just a parent it was probably

> dicounted. What do parents know.

[Guest guest]

my daughter has just started on celexa and both my wife and I are

extremely worried. can't tell you much right now but she is such bad

shape she's been hospitalized and has only suicide on her mind. we

are not sure if this stems from withdrawal effects from zoloft or the

celexa.

> My son tried to kill himself in a psychotic rage induced by

Celexa. I

> reported it to Medwatch but since I'm just a parent it was probably

> dicounted. What do parents know.

[Guest guest]

Sara, I want your son to be doing fine. Say it's so.

I keep looking at all the press that says SSRI's are not good for the children

and are somehow ok for adults and the only difference I can see between these

two groups is that children have not learned to restrain themselves like adults

have. So it appears to me that all these adults are having to restrain

themselves

from doing things or saying things that is being brought about by the drugs.

Another thing I just have to talk about is what the hell is this " evidence

based " science.

Well after reading the actual process in a few studies it appears to be a

ephemistic way

of saying that the psych's have gotten together and compared notes of personal

observations

and then voted on it and that is how they came to a scientific " evidence based "

solution.

In other words it's horse manure just like the DSM-IV.

Ever hear of " patent medicine " ? looks like the same thing to me.

http://www.fda.gov/cder/about/history/gallery/galleryintro.htm

Jim

Re: Lexapro and Celexa no more effective in children

than a placebo.

My son tried to kill himself in a psychotic rage induced by Celexa. I

reported it to Medwatch but since I'm just a parent it was probably

dicounted. What do parents know.

[Guest guest]

Sara, I want your son to be doing fine. Say it's so.

I keep looking at all the press that says SSRI's are not good for the children

and are somehow ok for adults and the only difference I can see between these

two groups is that children have not learned to restrain themselves like adults

have. So it appears to me that all these adults are having to restrain

themselves

from doing things or saying things that is being brought about by the drugs.

Another thing I just have to talk about is what the hell is this " evidence

based " science.

Well after reading the actual process in a few studies it appears to be a

ephemistic way

of saying that the psych's have gotten together and compared notes of personal

observations

and then voted on it and that is how they came to a scientific " evidence based "

solution.

In other words it's horse manure just like the DSM-IV.

Ever hear of " patent medicine " ? looks like the same thing to me.

http://www.fda.gov/cder/about/history/gallery/galleryintro.htm

Jim

Re: Lexapro and Celexa no more effective in children

than a placebo.

My son tried to kill himself in a psychotic rage induced by Celexa. I

reported it to Medwatch but since I'm just a parent it was probably

dicounted. What do parents know.

[Guest guest]

My son is far better on no medication than he was on any medication.

I hesitate to say he is doing well because I am incredibly

superstitious -- old sports mentality, LOL -- and don't want to jinx

anything. I am convinced that my son has temporal lobe partial

seizures which are triggered by stress and result in the " rages " so

often described in childhood bipolar literature. I believe that the

" suicidal ideation " that he had in his mid teens was nothing more than

what my generation knew as " teen angst " . My son's life is not good,

he has PTSD from the Celexa induced psychosis and the world's reaction

to him and that psychosis. All but one of the drugs he was given

either lowered his seizure threshold (causing more of these seizure

rages) or actually caused " mental illness " (the ADs). He is still

somewhat agoraphobic. Despite a 140 IQ, he is a high school drop out.

But he is taking baby steps to a normal life. He is a neat, neat kid

who is horrified that for a period of his life he would hit me and

wanted to kill people. That's a lot to live down....... But at least

I have him. Others haven't been so fortunate.

> Sara, I want your son to be doing fine. Say it's so.

>

> I keep looking at all the press that says SSRI's are not good for

the children

> and are somehow ok for adults and the only difference I can see

between these

> two groups is that children have not learned to restrain themselves

like adults

> have. So it appears to me that all these adults are having to

restrain themselves

> from doing things or saying things that is being brought about by

the drugs.

>

> Another thing I just have to talk about is what the hell is this

" evidence based " science.

> Well after reading the actual process in a few studies it appears to

be a ephemistic way

> of saying that the psych's have gotten together and compared notes

of personal observations

> and then voted on it and that is how they came to a scientific

" evidence based " solution.

> In other words it's horse manure just like the DSM-IV.

> Ever hear of " patent medicine " ? looks like the same thing to me.

>

> http://www.fda.gov/cder/about/history/gallery/galleryintro.htm

>

> Jim

>

>

>

>

> Re: Lexapro and Celexa no more effective

in children than a placebo.

>

>

> My son tried to kill himself in a psychotic rage induced by

Celexa. I

> reported it to Medwatch but since I'm just a parent it was

probably

> dicounted. What do parents know.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My son is far better on no medication than he was on any medication.

I hesitate to say he is doing well because I am incredibly

superstitious -- old sports mentality, LOL -- and don't want to jinx

anything. I am convinced that my son has temporal lobe partial

seizures which are triggered by stress and result in the " rages " so

often described in childhood bipolar literature. I believe that the

" suicidal ideation " that he had in his mid teens was nothing more than

what my generation knew as " teen angst " . My son's life is not good,

he has PTSD from the Celexa induced psychosis and the world's reaction

to him and that psychosis. All but one of the drugs he was given

either lowered his seizure threshold (causing more of these seizure

rages) or actually caused " mental illness " (the ADs). He is still

somewhat agoraphobic. Despite a 140 IQ, he is a high school drop out.

But he is taking baby steps to a normal life. He is a neat, neat kid

who is horrified that for a period of his life he would hit me and

wanted to kill people. That's a lot to live down....... But at least

I have him. Others haven't been so fortunate.

> Sara, I want your son to be doing fine. Say it's so.

>

> I keep looking at all the press that says SSRI's are not good for

the children

> and are somehow ok for adults and the only difference I can see

between these

> two groups is that children have not learned to restrain themselves

like adults

> have. So it appears to me that all these adults are having to

restrain themselves

> from doing things or saying things that is being brought about by

the drugs.

>

> Another thing I just have to talk about is what the hell is this

" evidence based " science.

> Well after reading the actual process in a few studies it appears to

be a ephemistic way

> of saying that the psych's have gotten together and compared notes

of personal observations

> and then voted on it and that is how they came to a scientific

" evidence based " solution.

> In other words it's horse manure just like the DSM-IV.

> Ever hear of " patent medicine " ? looks like the same thing to me.

>

> http://www.fda.gov/cder/about/history/gallery/galleryintro.htm

>

> Jim

>

>

>

>

> Re: Lexapro and Celexa no more effective

in children than a placebo.

>

>

> My son tried to kill himself in a psychotic rage induced by

Celexa. I

> reported it to Medwatch but since I'm just a parent it was

probably

> dicounted. What do parents know.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

An SSRI is an SSRI. They aren't a whole lot different. The studies

on SSRIs and adolescents clearly show an increase in self harming

behaviors (be they suicidal or not), aggression, hostility, etc over

placebos. Since the placebo is a " sugar pill " , the assumption is made

that any worsening of the child's condition while taking a placebo is

the result of the disorder. Since the SSRIs consistently show more

worsening than the placebo group, that means that giving an SSRI is

worse than doing nothing. Add to that that we have learned that much

of the adverse reactions attributed to the placebo group actually

occurred during the withdrawal period. Clearly these medications are

dangerous for a significant portion of the population.

And SSRI demonstrate no improvement over a placebo for the treatment

of depression. The rate of improvement of the depression for the

control group (placebo) is virtually the same for the drug group in

most of the studies done on children and adolescents. According to

the scientific method, that means that any improvement in a child

which results from an SSRI would have occurred had that child been

given a sugar pill and told it was an antidepressant. The difference

between the improvement in the placebo group and the drug group is not

significant enough to say that the drug is effective. That's what

double blind studies are all about. And that's also why Celexa is not

approved for use in treating adolescent depression.

The drug companies own studies have consistently proved that the

safest, most effective treatment for adolescent depression is the

placbo.

Have them wean her off all SSRIs while she is in the hospital where

they can watch her. It may get worse before it gets better. My son

did nothing for two weeks while he went through the acute withdrawal

after stopping the Celexa cold turkey. I barely slept, keeping an eye

on him as much as possible, waiting on him hand and foot because he

was too dizzy to function. But things have been far, far better ever

since.

> > My son tried to kill himself in a psychotic rage induced by

> Celexa. I

> > reported it to Medwatch but since I'm just a parent it was

probably

> > dicounted. What do parents know.

[Guest guest]

An SSRI is an SSRI. They aren't a whole lot different. The studies

on SSRIs and adolescents clearly show an increase in self harming

behaviors (be they suicidal or not), aggression, hostility, etc over

placebos. Since the placebo is a " sugar pill " , the assumption is made

that any worsening of the child's condition while taking a placebo is

the result of the disorder. Since the SSRIs consistently show more

worsening than the placebo group, that means that giving an SSRI is

worse than doing nothing. Add to that that we have learned that much

of the adverse reactions attributed to the placebo group actually

occurred during the withdrawal period. Clearly these medications are

dangerous for a significant portion of the population.

And SSRI demonstrate no improvement over a placebo for the treatment

of depression. The rate of improvement of the depression for the

control group (placebo) is virtually the same for the drug group in

most of the studies done on children and adolescents. According to

the scientific method, that means that any improvement in a child

which results from an SSRI would have occurred had that child been

given a sugar pill and told it was an antidepressant. The difference

between the improvement in the placebo group and the drug group is not

significant enough to say that the drug is effective. That's what

double blind studies are all about. And that's also why Celexa is not

approved for use in treating adolescent depression.

The drug companies own studies have consistently proved that the

safest, most effective treatment for adolescent depression is the

placbo.

Have them wean her off all SSRIs while she is in the hospital where

they can watch her. It may get worse before it gets better. My son

did nothing for two weeks while he went through the acute withdrawal

after stopping the Celexa cold turkey. I barely slept, keeping an eye

on him as much as possible, waiting on him hand and foot because he

was too dizzy to function. But things have been far, far better ever

since.

> > My son tried to kill himself in a psychotic rage induced by

> Celexa. I

> > reported it to Medwatch but since I'm just a parent it was

probably

> > dicounted. What do parents know.

[Guest guest]

that's great to hear.

Jim

Re: Lexapro and Celexa no more effective

in children than a placebo.

>

>

> My son tried to kill himself in a psychotic rage induced by

Celexa. I

> reported it to Medwatch but since I'm just a parent it was

probably

> dicounted. What do parents know.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

that's great to hear.

Jim

Re: Lexapro and Celexa no more effective

in children than a placebo.

>

>

> My son tried to kill himself in a psychotic rage induced by

Celexa. I

> reported it to Medwatch but since I'm just a parent it was

probably

> dicounted. What do parents know.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

A correction and an additional thought:

My statement

" Add to that that we have learned that much of the adverse reactions

attributed to the placebo group actually occurred during the

withdrawal period. "

should have read

" Add to that that we have learned that many of the adverse reactions

attributed to the placebo group (including suicidal ideation, suicidal

attempts, and successful suicides) actually occurred during the period

of withdrawal from the SSRI when the subject was taking a placebo. "

And further, without seeing the studies, I can guarentee that none of

them lasted longer than 12 weeks, many were proabably only 3-4 weeks.

Yet these are medication that people take for YEARS. We are told that

SSRIs increase the number of certain brain cells. For how long? Is

there ever such a thing as too many of these brain cells? Is more

really better? Can there be too much of a good thing? There is very

little long term research on the use of these drugs which are almost

always used in the long term.

And finally, those adverse reactions are undoubtedly grossly under

reported. The British estimate that 1 in 10 adverse reaction is

actually reported. I know our doctor didn't report my son's suicide

attempt as an adverse reaction to Celexa. Most doctors respond to

suicide attempts by increasing the AD, not removing it. After all,

isn't that why ADs are prescribed to begin with? If the doctors can't

recognize and adverse reaction, they certainly don't report them. And

the drug companies like it that way.

[Guest guest]

A correction and an additional thought:

My statement

" Add to that that we have learned that much of the adverse reactions

attributed to the placebo group actually occurred during the

withdrawal period. "

should have read

" Add to that that we have learned that many of the adverse reactions

attributed to the placebo group (including suicidal ideation, suicidal

attempts, and successful suicides) actually occurred during the period

of withdrawal from the SSRI when the subject was taking a placebo. "

And further, without seeing the studies, I can guarentee that none of

them lasted longer than 12 weeks, many were proabably only 3-4 weeks.

Yet these are medication that people take for YEARS. We are told that

SSRIs increase the number of certain brain cells. For how long? Is

there ever such a thing as too many of these brain cells? Is more

really better? Can there be too much of a good thing? There is very

little long term research on the use of these drugs which are almost

always used in the long term.

And finally, those adverse reactions are undoubtedly grossly under

reported. The British estimate that 1 in 10 adverse reaction is

actually reported. I know our doctor didn't report my son's suicide

attempt as an adverse reaction to Celexa. Most doctors respond to

suicide attempts by increasing the AD, not removing it. After all,

isn't that why ADs are prescribed to begin with? If the doctors can't

recognize and adverse reaction, they certainly don't report them. And

the drug companies like it that way.

[Guest guest]

> my daughter has just started on celexa and both my wife and I are

> extremely worried. can't tell you much right now but she is such

bad

> shape she's been hospitalized and has only suicide on her mind. we

> are not sure if this stems from withdrawal effects from zoloft or

the Celexa.

Its the Zoloft and the Celexa!! Get her off this stuff!! My son was

suicidal coming off Paxil and a close friends daughter committed

suicide while coming off Zoloft. They are all SSRI's and should not

be given to children. Watch her closely!!!!!!!!! My son thought of

death constantly while on Paxil and only by a stroke of luck he

attempted suicide right in front of me and I was able to stop him.

He's now off Paxil for 10 weeks(after a very long wean) and is doing

wonderful. He's back to being a normal teenager. Read all you can and

get her off these drugs to save her life.

[Guest guest]

> my daughter has just started on celexa and both my wife and I are

> extremely worried. can't tell you much right now but she is such

bad

> shape she's been hospitalized and has only suicide on her mind. we

> are not sure if this stems from withdrawal effects from zoloft or

the Celexa.

Its the Zoloft and the Celexa!! Get her off this stuff!! My son was

suicidal coming off Paxil and a close friends daughter committed

suicide while coming off Zoloft. They are all SSRI's and should not

be given to children. Watch her closely!!!!!!!!! My son thought of

death constantly while on Paxil and only by a stroke of luck he

attempted suicide right in front of me and I was able to stop him.

He's now off Paxil for 10 weeks(after a very long wean) and is doing

wonderful. He's back to being a normal teenager. Read all you can and

get her off these drugs to save her life.

[Guest guest]

Be sure to take your child to a doctor that can reduce these poisons

slowly so it does not get worse.

Re: Lexapro and Celexa no more effective in children

than a placebo.

> my daughter has just started on celexa and both my wife and I are

> extremely worried. can't tell you much right now but she is such

bad

> shape she's been hospitalized and has only suicide on her mind. we

> are not sure if this stems from withdrawal effects from zoloft or

the Celexa.

Its the Zoloft and the Celexa!! Get her off this stuff!! My son was

suicidal coming off Paxil and a close friends daughter committed

suicide while coming off Zoloft. They are all SSRI's and should not

be given to children. Watch her closely!!!!!!!!! My son thought of

death constantly while on Paxil and only by a stroke of luck he

attempted suicide right in front of me and I was able to stop him.

He's now off Paxil for 10 weeks(after a very long wean) and is doing

wonderful. He's back to being a normal teenager. Read all you can and

get her off these drugs to save her life.

[Guest guest]

Zoloft and Celexa are essentially the same drugs but they target different

receptor points on the cell so what you are likely experiencing is both

drugs - withdrawal from Zoloft and the addition of Celexa.

I went through all this with my son. We lived through all those horrid

experiences but ultimately got off the drugs and now eat a low carb diet in

line with Atkins - primarily fresh vegatables and meats. No more junk food,

especially all that stuff targeted for kids. My son is blossoming like a

rose. No words can express how happy he is to be off drugs and out of that

insane world of doctors who have no clue what they are doing.

I took another kid in my home recently off the street. She was put on

medications starting when she was six. She hit teenage, 18, and rebelled

with a very firm - no more. No one has listened to her pleas about what the

drugs did to her inside or the withdrawal they caused for her. (And she has

some good stories of those psych hospitals) Her parents are as good people

as they come but the psychiatrist has them convinced she is chemically

imbalanced. They have told her she can not live at home unless she is

medicated. She works but doesn't make enough to be on her own. So far, the

issues with her living here have all been about maturity and making better

decisions - typical teenage issues, and problems she has with carbohydrate

cravings.

Re: Lexapro and Celexa no more effective in

children than a placebo.

> my daughter has just started on celexa and both my wife and I are

> extremely worried. can't tell you much right now but she is such bad

> shape she's been hospitalized and has only suicide on her mind. we

> are not sure if this stems from withdrawal effects from zoloft or the

> celexa.

>

>

> > My son tried to kill himself in a psychotic rage induced by

> Celexa. I

> > reported it to Medwatch but since I'm just a parent it was probably

> > dicounted. What do parents know.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sara,

My son had the temper - its a family thing with the males on his father's

side for generations. There are also family headaches, ulcers, high blood

pressure, etc. - except no more for my son since we changed diet. Junk food

is an issue now he argues with his friends, most of whom are on one of these

drugs or another. When the kids are over here, they get to eat fresh fruit,

vegatables, meats, or cheeses - none are use to eating such stuff and can't

believe how good my meals taste.

Re: Lexapro and Celexa no more effective

> in children than a placebo.

> >

> >

> > My son tried to kill himself in a psychotic rage induced by

> Celexa. I

> > reported it to Medwatch but since I'm just a parent it was

> probably

> > dicounted. What do parents know.

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

My son is discovering on his own that more natural ingedients and the

fewer prepared foods in his diet, the better he feels ......and acts.

Funny thing, I was just having this conversation on a board with some

other parents who have discovered the same thing.

> > > Sara, I want your son to be doing fine. Say it's so.

> > >

> > > I keep looking at all the press that says SSRI's are not good

for

> > the children

> > > and are somehow ok for adults and the only difference I can see

> > between these

> > > two groups is that children have not learned to restrain

themselves

> > like adults

> > > have. So it appears to me that all these adults are having to

> > restrain themselves

> > > from doing things or saying things that is being brought about

by

> > the drugs.

> > >

> > > Another thing I just have to talk about is what the hell is this

> > " evidence based " science.

> > > Well after reading the actual process in a few studies it

appears to

> > be a ephemistic way

> > > of saying that the psych's have gotten together and compared

notes

> > of personal observations

> > > and then voted on it and that is how they came to a scientific

> > " evidence based " solution.

> > > In other words it's horse manure just like the DSM-IV.

> > > Ever hear of " patent medicine " ? looks like the same thing to me.

> > >

> > > http://www.fda.gov/cder/about/history/gallery/galleryintro.htm

> > >

> > > Jim

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Re: Lexapro and Celexa no more

effective

> > in children than a placebo.

> > >

> > >

> > > My son tried to kill himself in a psychotic rage induced by

> > Celexa. I

> > > reported it to Medwatch but since I'm just a parent it was

> > probably

> > > dicounted. What do parents know.

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

My son is discovering on his own that more natural ingedients and the

fewer prepared foods in his diet, the better he feels ......and acts.

Funny thing, I was just having this conversation on a board with some

other parents who have discovered the same thing.

> > > Sara, I want your son to be doing fine. Say it's so.

> > >

> > > I keep looking at all the press that says SSRI's are not good

for

> > the children

> > > and are somehow ok for adults and the only difference I can see

> > between these

> > > two groups is that children have not learned to restrain

themselves

> > like adults

> > > have. So it appears to me that all these adults are having to

> > restrain themselves

> > > from doing things or saying things that is being brought about

by

> > the drugs.

> > >

> > > Another thing I just have to talk about is what the hell is this

> > " evidence based " science.

> > > Well after reading the actual process in a few studies it

appears to

> > be a ephemistic way

> > > of saying that the psych's have gotten together and compared

notes

> > of personal observations

> > > and then voted on it and that is how they came to a scientific

> > " evidence based " solution.

> > > In other words it's horse manure just like the DSM-IV.

> > > Ever hear of " patent medicine " ? looks like the same thing to me.

> > >

> > > http://www.fda.gov/cder/about/history/gallery/galleryintro.htm

> > >

> > > Jim

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Re: Lexapro and Celexa no more

effective

> > in children than a placebo.

> > >

> > >

> > > My son tried to kill himself in a psychotic rage induced by

> > Celexa. I

> > > reported it to Medwatch but since I'm just a parent it was

> > probably

> > > dicounted. What do parents know.

> > >

> > >

> > >