Re: THANK YOU - and another request

[Guest guest]

I too am glad to be part of this dynamic group! My

wishes for you all is that you have an incredible ’09!

“STAY INSPIRED –EXPECT MIRACLES!

Dennis

From:

no-forced-vaccination

[mailto:no-forced-vaccination ] On Behalf Of Lemmon

Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 9:59 AM

no-forced-vaccination

Subject: THANK YOU - and another request

Thank you all again for all that you have shared regarding the flu

vaccine in pregnancy! Again, my heart aches for this dear young lady, and

I hope to become better friends with her so that I can help her as they

eventually prepare to have another baby.

I'm just so glad to be among friends of like-minds here, with whom

I can share and from whom I am learning so much!

With all this in mind (and thanks for bringing in aspartame into

this as well-- I've got a growing file on that horrid invention too), I have a

further question for all of you.

I am a member of a multi-million member world-wide church,.

Please understand, of course, that, while I have very strong feelings about and

love for my church, I do not want this to become a religious discussion at

all. What has been weighing on my mind for some time now, and what I've

begun action on this week (hah-- right after Christmas and before New Year's

and everything, like I had nothing else going on!!) is the actual very dated

vaccination policy of my church, which sends missionaries world-wide. My

eldest son is approaching the age where he will want to serve a mission, and I

will not vaccinate my children further. I called the headquarters of the

church to see what they are doing to update their policy (dated 1978). I

had a lengthy conversation with a retired pediatrician who is on the

board, and who is very much for vaccines. He even took the time to e-mail

me, to further confirm his vaccine-supporting opinion-- and on this he included

our church's official vaccine statement as well as other vaccine-supporting

articles. Until I started pouring into this, I hadn't realized how much

my church supports the vaccination effort.

I held my ground, of course, working to be very diplomatic. I

told him I did not come to my decision about vaccination lightly-- that I

took the time to study out carefully both sides of the issue, going to CDC

and FDA sites, not to mention the AAP and other medical sites, as well as

those " on the other side " to carefully weigh things out. And, I

told him, I hope the decision makers at the headquarters of the church are

doing the same. (I kept from the conversation anything about the fact

that I do not trust many of the " conclusive " studies done, because of

what I've learned about conflicts of interest, Simpsonwood, etc.)

And now that this retired physician has taken the time to e-mail

me, I am preparing to e-mail him back.

I do not believe emotions convince anyone of anything, except that

you are emotionally moved by something.

I have been perusing the many files I have been putting together,

the e-mails I've received from here and from the classes I took on vaccine

dangers, the websites I've marked. I've already told him of three books I

have-- _Evidence of Harm_ (Kirby), _The Vaccine Guide_ (Neustaedter), and

_Saying No to Vaccines_ (Tenpenny).

He told me in his e-mail that, in his years of practise (1965 to

1996), in the state of Wyoming, with the thousands of vaccines he gave, he saw

not one case of autism. (Interesting that he was the one who brought up

the vaccine/autism connection, not me.) We all know more behind all this

and how things have also escalated so much since his retirement. But

he and, it seems, all the other members of my church's board are happily

convinced of the effectiveness of vaccines in eradicating disease.

What are some " cold, hard, un-arguable " facts/sources

that you might be able to share with me that I can pass on to him? This

first e-mail I send back, I hope will not be the only one. I need to

keep it short, clear and concise, but with enough information in it to

hopefully pique his curiosity into looking outside of his paradigm.

Thanks again in advance for your input!

- Lemmon

[Guest guest]

Dear :

There will be some overlap of information here, as the vaccine

discussion is something to which I have responded many times, but I

have a good list.

I would order the Mothering vaccine packet. It has both pro and con

arguments, but because the arguments against vaccines are so

compelling, the pro section serves only to validate the fact that the

Mothering folks covered their bases.

Here is a list of other sources as well as one of my recent responses

to my local homeschooling group when this came up (again).

Theresa

A few key points:

1. No long term studies have been done or are done on vaccines.

Vaccine related deaths in infants and small children are frequently

attributed to SIDS and not documented as vaccine maimings, in spite of

the fact that the family of any child who has died within 30 days of a

vaccine is entitled to the $250,000.00 compensation mandated by the

Vaccine Injury Act. Therefore, a child who has died from a vaccine

within 30 days of the administering of that vaccine may still not be

documented by the CDC as a vaccine related death, but may still be

compensated by the government.

Drugs which have a greater track record for safety than vaccines are

subject to double blind studies which can last for decades. Not so

with vaccines. Under normal circumstances, significant numbers of

children who have suffered neurological damage during a one year

period after having a drug is sufficient to spark off an intense

investigation. In the case of vaccines, however, such damage has

occurred, and such an investigation has never been launched - ever.

2. Accidental contaminants which have been found in vaccines are:

SV40 monkey virus (in polio vaccines made with monkey kidneys),

chicken viruses (in the MMR), acanthamoeba (brain-eating amoeba) -

found in polio vaccine, enzyme inhibitors, duck, dog and rabbit

viruses (in the rubella vaccine), avian leucosis virus (in flu

vaccine), pestivirus (in the MMR), human hair fragments, human mucus,

bacterial fragments, and unidentified foreign proteins.

Most people do not know that some polio vaccines, adenovirus, rubella,

hep A and measles vaccines have been made with aborted fetal tissue.

3. The medical industry makes the assumption that vaccines are safe.

So when they do investigate, they invariably exonerate the vaccines,

frequently basing their judgments on definitions which automatically

rule out a condemnation of the vaccine.

4. The public needs to understand that in the present climate the

burden of proof in establishing the safety and efficacy of vaccines

SHOULD be on the pharmaceuticals who manufacture and license the

drugs for public use. The burden of proof should not ever be on the

victims of the drugs. In order to prove safety and efficacy, there is

a need for well designed long term studies. However, to date, the

burden of proof consistently has fallen on the victims, and long term

studies have not happened.

5. The standard approach for the allopathic industry is to scare

parents with dire scenarios about what will happen if their kids don't

get shots. They make it seem a crime to refuse vaccines - equating

such choice with bad parenting. This is hardly an environment in

which parents, especially new parents, can make thoroughly informed

choices.

OTHER SOURCES:

Black, Dean. Let's Open our Health Care Options. BioResearch

Foundation 1987

Nova Transcript #1510 Can you still get Polio? 1988. WGBH Educational

Foundation

Leviton, . A Shot in the Dark. Yoga Jounal. May/June 1992.

V. 59

Belkin, . Mindless Vaccination Bureaucracy. Belkin Report.

November 8, 1998

Levinton, . Who Calls the Shots? mandatory Vaccinations . . .

have become the focus of a bitter struggle between lawmakers, health

activists and the medical establishment. East West. November 1988.

Vaccinations. Mothering Special Edition. A Selection of Articles,

letters and resources 1979 - 1989.

Keech, Jill. Chesapeake girl permanently disabled by immunization.

Virginia Daily Press. June 1, 1994

Marchione, Marilynn. Seven years on, debate over vaccines and autism

boils. Ithaca Journal. June 27, 2005

Glatz, Carol. Inoculations need scrutiny. News Analysis. Catholic

Courier. Diocese of Rochester, NY. August, 2005

Kim, Dr. Ben. Death by Lethal Vaccine Injection. Colebeck,

. Story of the death of her 3 month old baby girl, , by

the DPT. May 24, 2006.

Kim, Dr. Ben. Jon Rappoport Interviews a Retired Vaccine Researcher.

May 24, 2006

Families argue autism-vaccine link in special US Court. CNN report.

May 12, 2008.

Fisher, Barbara Loe. DPT: A Shot in the Dark (Harcourt Brace

Jovanovich 1985; Warner 1986; Avery 1991)

Fisher, Barbara Loe. The Consumer's Guide to Childhood Vaccines

(NVIC 1997)

Fisher, Barbara Loe. Editor of the bi-weekly NVIC Vaccine E-News

More resources - these are from 1989 - so some may be unavailable:

Hahnemann Medical Clinic

1918 Bonita Avenue

Berkeley, CA 94704

415-849-1925

National Center for Homeopathy

1500 Massachusetts Ave. NW

Washington, DC 20005

202-223-6182

Dissatisfied Parents Together

128 Branch Road

Vienna VA 22180

703-938-DPT3

Health Research

70 Lafayette Street

Mokelumne Hill, CA 95245

Honor Publications

P.O. Box 346

Cutten, CA 95534

The National Health Federation

212 W. Foothill Blvd.

PO Box 688

Monrovia, CA 91016

818-357-2181

The Doctor's People

Box 982

ton, IL 60204

312-328-1550

On Jan 1, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Lemmon wrote:

>

> Thank you all again for all that you have shared regarding the flu

> vaccine in pregnancy! Again, my heart aches for this dear young

> lady, and I hope to become better friends with her so that I can

> help her as they eventually prepare to have another baby.

>

> I'm just so glad to be among friends of like-minds here, with whom I

> can share and from whom I am learning so much!

>

> With all this in mind (and thanks for bringing in aspartame into

> this as well-- I've got a growing file on that horrid invention

> too), I have a further question for all of you.

>

> I am a member of a multi-million member world-wide church,. Please

> understand, of course, that, while I have very strong feelings about

> and love for my church, I do not want this to become a religious

> discussion at all. What has been weighing on my mind for some time

> now, and what I've begun action on this week (hah-- right after

> Christmas and before New Year's and everything, like I had nothing

> else going on!!) is the actual very dated vaccination policy of my

> church, which sends missionaries world-wide. My eldest son is

> approaching the age where he will want to serve a mission, and I

> will not vaccinate my children further. I called the headquarters

> of the church to see what they are doing to update their policy

> (dated 1978). I had a lengthy conversation with a retired

> pediatrician who is on the board, and who is very much for

> vaccines. He even took the time to e-mail me, to further confirm

> his vaccine-supporting opinion-- and on this he included our

> church's official vaccine statement as well as other vaccine-

> supporting articles. Until I started pouring into this, I hadn't

> realized how much my church supports the vaccination effort.

>

> I held my ground, of course, working to be very diplomatic. I told

> him I did not come to my decision about vaccination lightly-- that I

> took the time to study out carefully both sides of the issue, going

> to CDC and FDA sites, not to mention the AAP and other medical

> sites, as well as those " on the other side " to carefully weigh

> things out. And, I told him, I hope the decision makers at the

> headquarters of the church are doing the same. (I kept from the

> conversation anything about the fact that I do not trust many of the

> " conclusive " studies done, because of what I've learned about

> conflicts of interest, Simpsonwood, etc.)

>

> And now that this retired physician has taken the time to e-mail me,

> I am preparing to e-mail him back.

>

> I do not believe emotions convince anyone of anything, except that

> you are emotionally moved by something.

>

> I have been perusing the many files I have been putting together,

> the e-mails I've received from here and from the classes I took on

> vaccine dangers, the websites I've marked. I've already told him of

> three books I have-- _Evidence of Harm_ (Kirby), _The Vaccine Guide_

> (Neustaedter), and _Saying No to Vaccines_ (Tenpenny).

>

> He told me in his e-mail that, in his years of practise (1965 to

> 1996), in the state of Wyoming, with the thousands of vaccines he

> gave, he saw not one case of autism. (Interesting that he was the

> one who brought up the vaccine/autism connection, not me.) We all

> know more behind all this and how things have also escalated so much

> since his retirement. But he and, it seems, all the other members

> of my church's board are happily convinced of the effectiveness of

> vaccines in eradicating disease.

>

> What are some " cold, hard, un-arguable " facts/sources that you might

> be able to share with me that I can pass on to him? This first e-

> mail I send back, I hope will not be the only one. I need to keep

> it short, clear and concise, but with enough information in it to

> hopefully pique his curiosity into looking outside of his paradigm.

>

> Thanks again in advance for your input!

>

> - Lemmon

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hullo . What a marvelous *mission* you are taking on for your church. One of the simplest lists I feel is very valuable to peak people's interest and wonder, (if you dont already have it) is the History of Vaccines 1712-1993. I think it is an eye opener for those needing to be awakened. And a good begining point for persons to start there own vaccine awareness journey. I hope this helps. Glad Day ~ Karla in IL NOTE: this starts with the first recorded small pox vaccine..but be aware that forms of innoculations or vaccine type processes, even if a scratch variety, have been tried and reported in documentation and writings as far back as pyramids, and in other countries too, such as China etc, and probably even before those times. Why and what was their thinking? I do not know. How well or IF they worked at all... I dont know that either. Even then, I feel they probably caused more

harm than any good. But also note that there are forms of homeopathic vaccines available. I personally wouldn't take one of those either..but that is just me. I would tend to use preventatives and treatments, natural immune boosters, vitamins and sups, and super foods, etc, and take my chances with Nature, not man's greed or arrogance, OR ignorance. Or their gross indifferance to well health or true caring to the masses. We are NOT sheep or cattle to be slaughtered and experimented on mindlessly and unknowingly. We are the People of our earth. Happy New Year!!. http://www.industryinet.com/~ruby/vaccine_history_to_1993.html

[Guest guest]

Hi -

I just bought the DVD DOCUMENTARY VACCINE NATION for the purpose of

educating family and friends. It is hard to put all the info

together. The DVD is a great starting point. Dr's, Scientist,

Lawyers,Congressman Dan Burton, Barbara Loe Fisher, etc.. talk about

the facts. Maybe you can watch it with the mom who lost her baby when

their ready.

Angelique

>

> Thank you all again for all that you have shared regarding the flu

> vaccine in pregnancy! Again, my heart aches for this dear young

lady,

> and I hope to become better friends with her so that I can help her

as

> they eventually prepare to have another baby.

>

> I'm just so glad to be among friends of like-minds here, with whom

I can

> share and from whom I am learning so much!

>

> With all this in mind (and thanks for bringing in aspartame into

this as

> well-- I've got a growing file on that horrid invention too), I

have a

> further question for all of you.

>

> I am a member of a multi-million member world-wide church,. Please

> understand, of course, that, while I have very strong feelings

about and

> love for my church, I do not want this to become a religious

discussion

> at all. What has been weighing on my mind for some time now, and

what

> I've begun action on this week (hah-- right after Christmas and

before

> New Year's and everything, like I had nothing else going on!!) is

the

> actual very dated vaccination policy of my church, which sends

> missionaries world-wide. My eldest son is approaching the age

where he

> will want to serve a mission, and I will not vaccinate my children

> further. I called the headquarters of the church to see what they

are

> doing to update their policy (dated 1978). I had a lengthy

conversation

> with a retired pediatrician who is on the board, and who is very

much

> for vaccines. He even took the time to e-mail me, to further

confirm

> his vaccine-supporting opinion-- and on this he included our

church's

> official vaccine statement as well as other vaccine-supporting

articles.

> Until I started pouring into this, I hadn't realized how much my

church

> supports the vaccination effort.

>

> I held my ground, of course, working to be very diplomatic. I told

him

> I did not come to my decision about vaccination lightly-- that I

took

> the time to study out carefully both sides of the issue, going to

CDC

> and FDA sites, not to mention the AAP and other medical sites, as

well

> as those " on the other side " to carefully weigh things out. And, I

told

> him, I hope the decision makers at the headquarters of the church

are

> doing the same. (I kept from the conversation anything about the

fact

> that I do not trust many of the " conclusive " studies done, because

of

> what I've learned about conflicts of interest, Simpsonwood, etc.)

>

> And now that this retired physician has taken the time to e-mail

me, I

> am preparing to e-mail him back.

>

> I do not believe emotions convince anyone of anything, except that

you

> are emotionally moved by something.

>

> I have been perusing the many files I have been putting together,

the

> e-mails I've received from here and from the classes I took on

vaccine

> dangers, the websites I've marked. I've already told him of three

books

> I have-- _Evidence of Harm_ (Kirby), _The Vaccine Guide_

(Neustaedter),

> and _Saying No to Vaccines_ (Tenpenny).

>

> He told me in his e-mail that, in his years of practise (1965 to

1996),

> in the state of Wyoming, with the thousands of vaccines he gave, he

saw

> not one case of autism. (Interesting that he was the one who

brought up

> the vaccine/autism connection, not me.) We all know more behind all

> this and how things have also escalated so much since his

retirement.

> But he and, it seems, all the other members of my church's board are

> happily convinced of the effectiveness of vaccines in eradicating

> disease.

>

> What are some " cold, hard, un-arguable " facts/sources that you

might be

> able to share with me that I can pass on to him? This first e-mail

I

> send back, I hope will not be the only one. I need to keep it

short,

> clear and concise, but with enough information in it to hopefully

pique

> his curiosity into looking outside of his paradigm.

>

> Thanks again in advance for your input!

>

> - Lemmon

>

[Guest guest]

How any church could possibly condone and encourage vaccinations, particularly in view of the fact that many vaccines are cultured on aborted fetal tissues, is beyond comprehension. Maybe the retired pediatrician should read what a fellow pastor has to say:

http://www.whale.to/vaccine/deal.html

http://www.vaclib.org/links/religion.htm

He should also read Prof. Horowitz' letter

http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/vaccine_awareness/Vaccination_Waiver.html

Ingrid

Thank you all again for all that you have shared regarding the flu vaccine in pregnancy! Again, my heart aches for this dear young lady, and I hope to become better friends with her so that I can help her as they eventually prepare to have another baby.

I'm just so glad to be among friends of like-minds here, with whom I can share and from whom I am learning so much!

With all this in mind (and thanks for bringing in aspartame into this as well-- I've got a growing file on that horrid invention too), I have a further question for all of you.

I am a member of a multi-million member world-wide church,. Please understand, of course, that, while I have very strong feelings about and love for my church, I do not want this to become a religious discussion at all. What has been weighing on my mind for some time now, and what I've begun action on this week (hah-- right after Christmas and before New Year's and everything, like I had nothing else going on!!) is the actual very dated vaccination policy of my church, which sends missionaries world-wide. My eldest son is approaching the age where he will want to serve a mission, and I will not vaccinate my children further. I called the headquarters of the church to see what they are doing to update their policy (dated 1978). I had a lengthy conversation with a retired pediatrician who is on the board, and who is very much for vaccines. He even took the time to e-mail me, to further confirm his vaccine-supporting opinion-- and on this he included our church's official vaccine statement as well as other vaccine-supporting articles. Until I started pouring into this, I hadn't realized how much my church supports the vaccination effort.

I held my ground, of course, working to be very diplomatic. I told him I did not come to my decision about vaccination lightly-- that I took the time to study out carefully both sides of the issue, going to CDC and FDA sites, not to mention the AAP and other medical sites, as well as those "on the other side" to carefully weigh things out. And, I told him, I hope the decision makers at the headquarters of the church are doing the same. (I kept from the conversation anything about the fact that I do not trust many of the "conclusive" studies done, because of what I've learned about conflicts of interest, Simpsonwood, etc.)

And now that this retired physician has taken the time to e-mail me, I am preparing to e-mail him back.

I do not believe emotions convince anyone of anything, except that you are emotionally moved by something.

I have been perusing the many files I have been putting together, the e-mails I've received from here and from the classes I took on vaccine dangers, the websites I've marked. I've already told him of three books I have-- _Evidence of Harm_ (Kirby), _The Vaccine Guide_ (Neustaedter), and _Saying No to Vaccines_ (Tenpenny).

He told me in his e-mail that, in his years of practise (1965 to 1996), in the state of Wyoming, with the thousands of vaccines he gave, he saw not one case of autism. (Interesting that he was the one who brought up the vaccine/autism connection, not me.) We all know more behind all this and how things have also escalated so much since his retirement. But he and, it seems, all the other members of my church's board are happily convinced of the effectiveness of vaccines in eradicating disease.

What are some "cold, hard, un-arguable" facts/sources that you might be able to share with me that I can pass on to him? This first e-mail I send back, I hope will not be the only one. I need to keep it short, clear and concise, but with enough information in it to hopefully pique his curiosity into looking outside of his paradigm.

Thanks again in advance for your input!

- Lemmon __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3729 (20090101) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

And dont forget the great video by Tocco. Are Vaccines Safe? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6351515212287981735 and her super informational site. http://childhoodshots.com/Favorite_Links.html

[Guest guest]

Everyone here is just fantastic! These are wonderful resources-- it's

going to take me a bit to go through them all. Some of them I'm

already aware of, but thanks, of course, for the reminder here!

And you're so right, Ingrid. It horrified me when I learned of the

human diploid cell use in vaccines. My church is staunchly pro-life.

When I mentioned my discovery of this use of aborted human fetal

cells to the physician to whom I was speaking, he didn't say a word in

response.

I have some wonderful resources on the use of these cells, if anyone

here would like these. I'm planning on including this in this first

e-mail I send.

I truly think it's pure ignorance on their part, and I will sincerely

love the opportunity to educate not only this board-- which is the

church's health/medical board-- but hopefully the population of the

church as well. It's lofty thinking, perhaps-- and I am just a single

person. But I strongly feel it's got to start somewhere.

Thank you all so very much!

- Lemmon

[Guest guest]

In the generation rescue poster, you can see the difference between

1983, and 2008.

Again 1996 and 2006 are very different. You may want to point that

out to the doctor.

Religion is a very touchy thing for me. I was raised Catholic, I

became a non-denominational Christian (was being brainwashed and

didn't realize it), than I woke up out of that in only 4 to 5

months. I was still considering myself a Christian, until I learned

more about different religions of the world, and than until finally

I learned about the movements of the sun, and different

celebrations. All these mixed feelings kind of make me say, you know

you are better off getting away from a church, simply because they

try to dictate what your beliefs are, it doesn't matter what church,

and we are not humanely in that way, our experiences shapes our

beliefs.

Now you are at a point where you know that vaccines are not

effective. This is another area again were many of us being

brainwashed over the years, we don't realize it. This is how I felt

about vaccines, they work, you give them, I did it with my first

born, I didn't know any better, I was simply reitaring what I heard

on TV and my classroom teachers said.

I relate everything to being brainwashed, even the food we eat.

They have a new documentary out that came out in December 2008, is

called processed people....

I like the trailer, I have not seen it, because basically it says

something like, " Our food is processed for us, our information is

processed for us, and therefore we become processed people. "

The trailer says that is almost like we are in some sort of

experiment where a mad scientist is trying to see how sick and fat

we can actually get and they are succeeding!

http://www.processedpeople.com Watch the trailers!

I feel that our religion is processed, our food is processed, our

medical care is processed...

All this to say that I hope you have patience in dealing with the

doctor that has never seen a case of autism, when we clearly know

that 1996 is different from 2006, and so is the vaccine schedule.

Take care,

Marieliz

[Guest guest]

I have not read all the replies yet, but a great place to start with

someone like this retired Pedi is the PACKAGE INSERTS which list a

huge amount of conditions associated with the particular vaccine.

(http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm)

and individual manufacturers too. Sanofi Pasteur (all) are here

(https://www.vaccineshoppe.com/index.cfm?fa=anon.piexpress)

Indisputable facts are also the amount of aluminum and mercury

contained in each vaccine. And the MSDS sheets and EPA allowable

limits of each of these toxins.

best,

Liora in Beijing