Re: Re: Funding for ADD kids and...

[Guest guest]

Getting child welfare involved has been a strategy school districts

have used for a long time. Both when the parents are asking for services they

don't want to provide, and for not medicating. One case that I knew of

occurred with a family of three siblings who were hearing impaired and had other

needs. They had all three children in classes that used different modes of

communication. The bottom line was that the kids couldn't talk to each other.

Ridiculous right. Parents were pursuing due process hearings on these grounds

to

have all three children in the same mode of communication. School didn't want

to provide, basically because they didn't have existing classrooms as each

grade level using the same mode, so they started proceedings to get the kids, it

was a long long mess.

Schools want to medicate kids instead of providing smaller classrooms.

For kids whose primary problem is ADD, it would be a simple solution a

contained classroom with fewer distractions, where teachers could integrate

teaching kids to attend, and play the school game, with grade level and above

material.

[Guest guest]

Right Jim, they get services, the cost of which is funded less than

10% by federal dollars. PT, OT, Speech, resource, or self contained classes,

are all much more expensive options for schools than if the immediate problem

can be solved for them by medicating the child. It is certainly cost effective

for them if it can be placated by medication. It is certainly not in the

child's best interest unless it solves all of the child's problems which isn't

likely. I've seen it be very helpful for one of our children for a short

course,

as only a small part of the help he received. But it is not a cure all for

ever, it is much more important to remediate specific disabilities and teach

bypass strategies for those that can't be remediated. Teach the child to

function life long. But, that costs much more money for the schools.

[Guest guest]

Sorry, your rules are nice but that's not what goes on.

Teachers label, schools insist on drugs or will refuse to

teach the children, laws have been passed last session

in Texas and I still hear stories. Basically the laws were already

on the books, the new law makes it more clear but the schools

were breaking the law that was already in place. Teachers are not doctors

but teachers can label a kid as fast as a psych, the drug companies will

send tools for assessment. It's a racket.

SSRI SNRI = POISON period, lets not mince words.

Jim

School nurses dispense medications prescribed by doctors that parents

send to school. School nurses cannot prescribe Schedule II

stimulants. In fact, they are required to keep them under lock.

I do believe there were cases where CYS did threaten to take kids if

parents didn't medicate them but I have no links. However, my friend

whose children go to a school district that regularly reports parents

to CYS for imagined " abuse " has never has never been forced by CYS to

medicate her children. Teachers can report anything they want, the

state finds many of their complaints " unfounded " .

> The school nurse doles it out but in many states a teacher used to

be able

> to label a child and then if the parents didn't comply, call the

state to

> take

> the child along with siblings.

>

> A law just passed preventing that for stimulant drugs but the new

> Strattera is a failed SSRI gone ADHD med, it actually is not covered

> by the law.

>

> Jim

>

>

>

> Under what auspices does the federal government fund children on

> Ritalin??? And it is illegal for a teacher to distribute any

medication.

> Ritalin

> must be administered by a registered nurse.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry, your rules are nice but that's not what goes on.

Teachers label, schools insist on drugs or will refuse to

teach the children, laws have been passed last session

in Texas and I still hear stories. Basically the laws were already

on the books, the new law makes it more clear but the schools

were breaking the law that was already in place. Teachers are not doctors

but teachers can label a kid as fast as a psych, the drug companies will

send tools for assessment. It's a racket.

SSRI SNRI = POISON period, lets not mince words.

Jim

School nurses dispense medications prescribed by doctors that parents

send to school. School nurses cannot prescribe Schedule II

stimulants. In fact, they are required to keep them under lock.

I do believe there were cases where CYS did threaten to take kids if

parents didn't medicate them but I have no links. However, my friend

whose children go to a school district that regularly reports parents

to CYS for imagined " abuse " has never has never been forced by CYS to

medicate her children. Teachers can report anything they want, the

state finds many of their complaints " unfounded " .

> The school nurse doles it out but in many states a teacher used to

be able

> to label a child and then if the parents didn't comply, call the

state to

> take

> the child along with siblings.

>

> A law just passed preventing that for stimulant drugs but the new

> Strattera is a failed SSRI gone ADHD med, it actually is not covered

> by the law.

>

> Jim

>

>

>

> Under what auspices does the federal government fund children on

> Ritalin??? And it is illegal for a teacher to distribute any

medication.

> Ritalin

> must be administered by a registered nurse.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The first time I heard of it, it was part of Goals 2000.

----- Original Message -----

From: Sara

What I disagree with is the allegation that schools receive federal

funds for every kid on a stimulant.

[Guest guest]

I got that, the answer was in my earlier post, it's a long read.

Here is a different link with the same data. (I can't find the other link

http://www.pediatricneurology.com/schoolrx.htm

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/medicating/schools/feds.html

This second one is the good one.

From IDEA and believe me, most schools are crafty in getting those dollars.

Depending on the circumstances, IDEA could cover ADHD under its " other

health impairment, " " serious emotional disturbance, " or " specific learning

disability " categories. Students who qualify for services under IDEA are

entitled to an evaluation and, if it is determined necessary, access to

special education services. These services must be designed to meet each

child's unique educational needs, which are set forth in their

individualized education program (IEP). Depending on the IEP recommendations

set forth for each child, IDEA-eligible students may receive any or all of

the following: appropriate special education and related services, such as

speech and language services, or psychological services and vocational

education; special readers, braillists, typists, and interpreters if

necessary; the ability to attend a private school--at no expense to the

student's family--if the student's educational needs cannot be met through

the public school's special education program.

Till tomorrow,

Jim

I'm not going to disagree with you that school officials regularly

violate the laws and regulations. They can and do because no one is

willing to stop them. The agencies who are suppose to oversee the

schools are likely to serve the schools, not the students.

What I disagree with is the allegation that schools receive federal

funds for every kid on a stimulant.

> > The school nurse doles it out but in many states a teacher used to

> be able

> > to label a child and then if the parents didn't comply, call the

> state to

> > take

> > the child along with siblings.

> >

> > A law just passed preventing that for stimulant drugs but the new

> > Strattera is a failed SSRI gone ADHD med, it actually is not covered

> > by the law.

> >

> > Jim

> >

> >

> >

> > Under what auspices does the federal government fund

children on

> > Ritalin??? And it is illegal for a teacher to distribute any

> medication.

> > Ritalin

> > must be administered by a registered nurse.

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Well again, that's sematics. What I think we are trying to say is ADHD =

Ritalin.

Ritalin and other drugs, including Strattera are the " solution " for ADHD.

Not diet or allergy testing or anything else.

If a school decides a kid is ADHD they can draw down funds.

I would never say that some kids and adults have a hard time concentrating.

But I don't think ADHD is a real drug treatable disease, even if drugs calm

them down.

It looks real good, I know, I was labeled ADD and Ritalin was part of my

diet for

years except in Japan where Ritalin was illegal because it was a stimulant.

I fought all the time when I was on Ritalin, now I can study and learn, I

can

still get excited but it's pretty normal stuff. I never needed the Ritalin.

Jim

Well, for starts, Goals 2000 stopped being funded in 2001 and ended

completely on Dec. 31, 2002.

A quick check located the Eagle Forum site which linked the diagnosis

of ADHD with IDEA and Ritalin as the quick fix. As a few of us

suspected, the federal funding isn't for kids taking Ritalin per se,

but for kids who are special ed student under IDEA which can include

kids diagnosed with ADHD.

> The first time I heard of it, it was part of Goals 2000.

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Sara

> What I disagree with is the allegation that schools receive federal

> funds for every kid on a stimulant.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sure the kids don't have to be drugged but they are way more than

anyone would think, that's all I was saying, IDEA does equal drugging

the kids. In reality.

Semantics has a definition

1. linguistics study of meaning in language: the study of how meaning in

language is created by the use and interrelationships of words, phrases, and

sentences.

So taking apart someones wording and then restating it in 20 posts when the

meaning

is pretty clear from the beginning, at least to me, is a study of semantics.

Jim

No, WE were trying to say that ADHD = Ritalin = IDEA identification,

qualifying it that ADHD identified children do not HAVE to be on a

stimulant in order for the school districts to get special ed funds

for them. Some here were saying there was a pure payout to school

districts for putting kids on Ritalin without regard to IDEA

identification. That is not a true statement.

To call that semantics is about as honest as the drug companies

calling suicide attempts " depression " or homicide attempts

" hostility " .

> > The first time I heard of it, it was part of Goals 2000.

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: Sara

> > What I disagree with is the allegation that schools receive

federal

> > funds for every kid on a stimulant.

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

No Jim, IDEA identified kids will not have the push to be drugged.

Kids identified through educational laws will be served, i.e. have Occupational

Therapy (the best way to train other parts of the brain to do the processing

not normally done in ADD brain) Physical Therapy, Speech Therapy, Resource Room

help part of the day, or a Contained Class. If a child is identified it

costs everyone money. Therefore the push for the school system is not to

identify the kids, but just get by having their parents medicate them. If you

have

good people in schools doing a good job, they will not push just for Ritalin.

This push usually comes from regular classroom teachers, or school counselor,

or principal who do not want to access special services for the child.

Again, it is cheaper for the school just to get by with Ritalin, and

not serve the educational needs of the child. Sweep it under the rug so to

speak.

The best thing for the child is a complete comprehensive evaluation

and services most appropriate for the child, in the setting that allows the

child to learn the most.

[Guest guest]

No Jim, IDEA identified kids will not have the push to be drugged.

Kids identified through educational laws will be served, i.e. have Occupational

Therapy (the best way to train other parts of the brain to do the processing

not normally done in ADD brain) Physical Therapy, Speech Therapy, Resource Room

help part of the day, or a Contained Class. If a child is identified it

costs everyone money. Therefore the push for the school system is not to

identify the kids, but just get by having their parents medicate them. If you

have

good people in schools doing a good job, they will not push just for Ritalin.

This push usually comes from regular classroom teachers, or school counselor,

or principal who do not want to access special services for the child.

Again, it is cheaper for the school just to get by with Ritalin, and

not serve the educational needs of the child. Sweep it under the rug so to

speak.

The best thing for the child is a complete comprehensive evaluation

and services most appropriate for the child, in the setting that allows the

child to learn the most.

[Guest guest]

No Jim, IDEA identified kids will not have the push to be drugged.

Kids identified through educational laws will be served, i.e. have Occupational

Therapy (the best way to train other parts of the brain to do the processing

not normally done in ADD brain) Physical Therapy, Speech Therapy, Resource Room

help part of the day, or a Contained Class. If a child is identified it

costs everyone money. Therefore the push for the school system is not to

identify the kids, but just get by having their parents medicate them. If you

have

good people in schools doing a good job, they will not push just for Ritalin.

This push usually comes from regular classroom teachers, or school counselor,

or principal who do not want to access special services for the child.

Again, it is cheaper for the school just to get by with Ritalin, and

not serve the educational needs of the child. Sweep it under the rug so to

speak.

The best thing for the child is a complete comprehensive evaluation

and services most appropriate for the child, in the setting that allows the

child to learn the most.

[Guest guest]

No Jim, IDEA identified kids will not have the push to be drugged.

Kids identified through educational laws will be served, i.e. have Occupational

Therapy (the best way to train other parts of the brain to do the processing

not normally done in ADD brain) Physical Therapy, Speech Therapy, Resource Room

help part of the day, or a Contained Class. If a child is identified it

costs everyone money. Therefore the push for the school system is not to

identify the kids, but just get by having their parents medicate them. If you

have

good people in schools doing a good job, they will not push just for Ritalin.

This push usually comes from regular classroom teachers, or school counselor,

or principal who do not want to access special services for the child.

Again, it is cheaper for the school just to get by with Ritalin, and

not serve the educational needs of the child. Sweep it under the rug so to

speak.

The best thing for the child is a complete comprehensive evaluation

and services most appropriate for the child, in the setting that allows the

child to learn the most.

[Guest guest]

Agreed, there is no direct funding for kids put on Ritalin to a school

district. There is no mechanism in school funding at any level for medicating

kids.

[Guest guest]

Agreed, there is no direct funding for kids put on Ritalin to a school

district. There is no mechanism in school funding at any level for medicating

kids.

[Guest guest]

Agreed, there is no direct funding for kids put on Ritalin to a school

district. There is no mechanism in school funding at any level for medicating

kids.

[Guest guest]

Agreed, there is no direct funding for kids put on Ritalin to a school

district. There is no mechanism in school funding at any level for medicating

kids.

[Guest guest]

Again, to draw down IDEA funds, the child must be served. Not just

identified. I would disagree that kids with detailed IEP's and being well

served are mostly on antidepressants. They are mostly kids with neurological

deficits, kids needing speech, physical therapy, kids with hearing problems,

visually impaired, along with other disabilities. If a school system provides

what

the child needs, extremely rarely is there a need for a residential placement.

Kids are funded by state and federal funds according to their level of

service. (again only a small percentage of the cost). But the kids needing

considerable resources are more closely funded than kids just in resource

programs or

contained classes without additional services.

[Guest guest]

Again, to draw down IDEA funds, the child must be served. Not just

identified. I would disagree that kids with detailed IEP's and being well

served are mostly on antidepressants. They are mostly kids with neurological

deficits, kids needing speech, physical therapy, kids with hearing problems,

visually impaired, along with other disabilities. If a school system provides

what

the child needs, extremely rarely is there a need for a residential placement.

Kids are funded by state and federal funds according to their level of

service. (again only a small percentage of the cost). But the kids needing

considerable resources are more closely funded than kids just in resource

programs or

contained classes without additional services.

[Guest guest]

Again, to draw down IDEA funds, the child must be served. Not just

identified. I would disagree that kids with detailed IEP's and being well

served are mostly on antidepressants. They are mostly kids with neurological

deficits, kids needing speech, physical therapy, kids with hearing problems,

visually impaired, along with other disabilities. If a school system provides

what

the child needs, extremely rarely is there a need for a residential placement.

Kids are funded by state and federal funds according to their level of

service. (again only a small percentage of the cost). But the kids needing

considerable resources are more closely funded than kids just in resource

programs or

contained classes without additional services.

[Guest guest]

Again, to draw down IDEA funds, the child must be served. Not just

identified. I would disagree that kids with detailed IEP's and being well

served are mostly on antidepressants. They are mostly kids with neurological

deficits, kids needing speech, physical therapy, kids with hearing problems,

visually impaired, along with other disabilities. If a school system provides

what

the child needs, extremely rarely is there a need for a residential placement.

Kids are funded by state and federal funds according to their level of

service. (again only a small percentage of the cost). But the kids needing

considerable resources are more closely funded than kids just in resource

programs or

contained classes without additional services.

[Guest guest]

You have found one small piece of the funding requirements. No child

is funded that is not served (unless a school system falsifies that the child

is served).

[Guest guest]

You have found one small piece of the funding requirements. No child

is funded that is not served (unless a school system falsifies that the child

is served).

[Guest guest]

You have found one small piece of the funding requirements. No child

is funded that is not served (unless a school system falsifies that the child

is served).

[Guest guest]

You have found one small piece of the funding requirements. No child

is funded that is not served (unless a school system falsifies that the child

is served).

[Guest guest]

Under IDEA children that qualify as special needs bring additional funds

into the school district. The ADHD label and other learning disabilities

" MAY " qualify a child as " special needs " for this purpose. Many children who

are labeled with ADHD and other learning disabilities are not considered

special needs students, participate in normal classes and activities, and do

not get the additional funds. However, schools often push for children with

ADHD and learning disability labels to get labeled as special needs

students, and in some school districts, the percentage of children with

these labels that are considered special needs is very high.

An additional source of revenue for a school district in a state like Texas

is for a school district to get their students who perform poorly on

standardized tests to be labeled with ADHD and other learning disabilities.

By doing this, the school district often does not have to count the test

scores of these children as part of their overall district testing averages.

The school districts then get to advertise their high average test scores,

which drives up property values in the area. Texas school districts derive

their revenue from property taxes, which are assessed based on the value of

the property. Properties are always assessed at a higher rate, resulting in

higher taxes to the school district, in the areas in which school districts

have shown higher standardized test scores. Scores go up if the poor test

takers do not count against the school district average, on the basis of

disability labels.

So, there are always a couple of ways to manipulate the use of disability

labels to equate to income for a school district. The question is whether or

not an individual school district decides to participate in these methods.

In Texas in late 2003, we were given a copy of an email from one rich Austin

school district, where they had decided to try to get 25% of their fourth

grade class labeled within the school year. That district was known for

manipulating the system.

Jim

I stand by my statement that schools are not given funding for putting

children on Ritalin as claimed by the glitter ( " The schools receive

$500 a kid for each one dx'd with some kind of ADD/ADHA. " http://

health./group/SSRI medications/message/17569 ) and

Starris ( " The school district in Rancho Cordova, CA, gets $873 in

federal funds for every child on ritalin. " http://health.groups.

/group/SSRI medications/message/17587 )

Those statements are not true. It is not semantics.

IDEA does not require that children be on medication to get services

or enable schools to order parents to give their children drugs. In

fact, the recent amendment specifically prohibits it for one class of

drugs, oddly the one under discussion. Nor does it say that any child

taking medication for any reason automatically qualifies them for

IDEA.

We have an obligation to be honest and not repeat misinformation,

something we are very critical of the medical industry for doing.

> > > The first time I heard of it, it was part of Goals 2000.

> > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > From: Sara

> > > What I disagree with is the allegation that schools receive

> federal

> > > funds for every kid on a stimulant.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >