Re: Detained psych patients have no protection under men...

October 21, 2005

Well, I wish that my suicidal patient had been detained a bit longer

than 48 hours. On Friday, he jumped off an overpass above I-94 freeway.

Someone

saw him walking around above the overpass and called the police. He panicked

when the cops got there and jumped. A police officer was able to grab his

arm when he jumped and pull him back up. He was taken to a psych ward and was

detained for two days. He told them at the psych ward that he was suicidal

when they transfered him to our unit. He committed suicide the following day in

his detox room. He hung himself and I found him. Just maybe his state of

mind might have changed if a therapist would have talked to him for a longer

peiod of time to help him bring hope back into his life. However, he was

homeless

and an alcoholic, so in my opinion, no one cared what happened to him. Why

else would they release him from the psych ward when he said he was going to

kill himself. Then again, should people have the right to end their lives when

there is no hope left? He was homeless with an eighth grade education and had

not worked in 10 years....just drank everyday. What do you do when the

thought of living is worse than the tought of dying? He was tired of being

hungry

and freezing in the winter and had no hope left. He was addicted to alcohol

and used all the money he got pan handling to buy liquor. Also, he had

absolutely no desire to stop drinking and better his life. What do you do with

a

person like this?

Gab

October 21, 2005

I run the scared straight tour at our local county jail and can tell you

that we have a special ward for the mentally ill. In fact, some people who

are labeled mentally ill will walk into the jail and punch a deputy in the face

in order to be put in jail. They figure that at least they have a warm bed

and three meals a day, which in their mind is better than freezing out in the

cold and being hungry. These are individuals who are not able to function in

society nor hold jobs due to hearing voices and being delusional. They have

become homeless as a result of their condition and find jail welcoming. At

least that's what I'm told!

Gab

October 21, 2005

Gab,

I have thought on this issue for a long time. I finally decided that I felt

better with these situations realizing that people do have responsibility

for their own lives. It's like you said, he didn't want to change and that

is a decision that he made. It's terrible but it's the facts. Doesn't mean I

wouldn't try to help him but since he, on his own determinism, drank for

years and didn't work and then killed himself, I have learned from seeing

these things, that if I keep the responsibility for myself I feel terrible

but if I assign it to the person who is actually responsible for it then I

can help all the other people who are really trying and I can keep going. I

find I get more done for me and everyone else when I assign the

responsibility to the person responsible instead of taking it all on me. He

killed himself.

When I was thinking " I could have done this " or " I could have done that " it

was like that song said " chewing gum to fix a flat tire " . Got me nowhere and

prevented me from doing the good I can do now.

Hope that makes sense. I'm sorry you had to be the one to find him.

Jim

Well, I wish that my suicidal patient had been detained a bit longer

than 48 hours. On Friday, he jumped off an overpass above I-94 freeway.

Someone

saw him walking around above the overpass and called the police. He

panicked

when the cops got there and jumped. A police officer was able to grab his

arm when he jumped and pull him back up. He was taken to a psych ward and

was

detained for two days. He told them at the psych ward that he was suicidal

when they transfered him to our unit. He committed suicide the following

day in

his detox room. He hung himself and I found him. Just maybe his state of

mind might have changed if a therapist would have talked to him for a longer

peiod of time to help him bring hope back into his life. However, he was

homeless

and an alcoholic, so in my opinion, no one cared what happened to him. Why

else would they release him from the psych ward when he said he was going to

kill himself. Then again, should people have the right to end their lives

when

there is no hope left? He was homeless with an eighth grade education and

had

not worked in 10 years....just drank everyday. What do you do when the

thought of living is worse than the tought of dying? He was tired of being

hungry

and freezing in the winter and had no hope left. He was addicted to alcohol

and used all the money he got pan handling to buy liquor. Also, he had

absolutely no desire to stop drinking and better his life. What do you do

with a

person like this?

Gab

October 21, 2005

I know I'm in the minority here again, and always have been. But I

decided many years ago while managing the local animal shelter, that

there are a whole lot of things worse than death. I don't think

someone should be considered mentally ill because they would rather

die than live the life they have, whether it is their fault or not. I

believe in mercy killing also. What I don't believe in is suffering.

" Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die. " Tosh

>

> Gab,

>

> I have thought on this issue for a long time. I finally decided

that I felt

> better with these situations realizing that people do have

responsibility

> for their own lives. It's like you said, he didn't want to change

and that

> is a decision that he made. It's terrible but it's the facts.

Doesn't mean I

> wouldn't try to help him but since he, on his own determinism,

drank for

> years and didn't work and then killed himself, I have learned from

seeing

> these things, that if I keep the responsibility for myself I feel

terrible

> but if I assign it to the person who is actually responsible for it

then I

> can help all the other people who are really trying and I can keep

going. I

> find I get more done for me and everyone else when I assign the

> responsibility to the person responsible instead of taking it all

on me. He

> killed himself.

>

> When I was thinking " I could have done this " or " I could have done

that " it

> was like that song said " chewing gum to fix a flat tire " . Got me

nowhere and

> prevented me from doing the good I can do now.

>

> Hope that makes sense. I'm sorry you had to be the one to find him.

>

> Jim

>

> Well, I wish that my suicidal patient had been detained a bit

longer

> than 48 hours. On Friday, he jumped off an overpass above I-94

freeway.

> Someone

> saw him walking around above the overpass and called the police. He

> panicked

> when the cops got there and jumped. A police officer was able to

grab his

> arm when he jumped and pull him back up. He was taken to a psych

ward and

> was

> detained for two days. He told them at the psych ward that he was

suicidal

> when they transfered him to our unit. He committed suicide the

following

> day in

> his detox room. He hung himself and I found him. Just maybe his

state of

> mind might have changed if a therapist would have talked to him for

a longer

> peiod of time to help him bring hope back into his life. However,

he was

> homeless

> and an alcoholic, so in my opinion, no one cared what happened to

him. Why

> else would they release him from the psych ward when he said he was

going to

> kill himself. Then again, should people have the right to end

their lives

> when

> there is no hope left? He was homeless with an eighth grade

education and

> had

> not worked in 10 years....just drank everyday. What do you do when

the

> thought of living is worse than the tought of dying? He was tired

of being

> hungry

> and freezing in the winter and had no hope left. He was addicted

to alcohol

> and used all the money he got pan handling to buy liquor. Also, he

had

> absolutely no desire to stop drinking and better his life. What do

you do

> with a

> person like this?

>

> Gab

>

October 21, 2005

I know I'm in the minority here again, and always have been. But I

decided many years ago while managing the local animal shelter, that

there are a whole lot of things worse than death. I don't think

someone should be considered mentally ill because they would rather

die than live the life they have, whether it is their fault or not. I

believe in mercy killing also. What I don't believe in is suffering.

" Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die. " Tosh

>

> Gab,

>

> I have thought on this issue for a long time. I finally decided

that I felt

> better with these situations realizing that people do have

responsibility

> for their own lives. It's like you said, he didn't want to change

and that

> is a decision that he made. It's terrible but it's the facts.

Doesn't mean I

> wouldn't try to help him but since he, on his own determinism,

drank for

> years and didn't work and then killed himself, I have learned from

seeing

> these things, that if I keep the responsibility for myself I feel

terrible

> but if I assign it to the person who is actually responsible for it

then I

> can help all the other people who are really trying and I can keep

going. I

> find I get more done for me and everyone else when I assign the

> responsibility to the person responsible instead of taking it all

on me. He

> killed himself.

>

> When I was thinking " I could have done this " or " I could have done

that " it

> was like that song said " chewing gum to fix a flat tire " . Got me

nowhere and

> prevented me from doing the good I can do now.

>

> Hope that makes sense. I'm sorry you had to be the one to find him.

>

> Jim

>

> Well, I wish that my suicidal patient had been detained a bit

longer

> than 48 hours. On Friday, he jumped off an overpass above I-94

freeway.

> Someone

> saw him walking around above the overpass and called the police. He

> panicked

> when the cops got there and jumped. A police officer was able to

grab his

> arm when he jumped and pull him back up. He was taken to a psych

ward and

> was

> detained for two days. He told them at the psych ward that he was

suicidal

> when they transfered him to our unit. He committed suicide the

following

> day in

> his detox room. He hung himself and I found him. Just maybe his

state of

> mind might have changed if a therapist would have talked to him for

a longer

> peiod of time to help him bring hope back into his life. However,

he was

> homeless

> and an alcoholic, so in my opinion, no one cared what happened to

him. Why

> else would they release him from the psych ward when he said he was

going to

> kill himself. Then again, should people have the right to end

their lives

> when

> there is no hope left? He was homeless with an eighth grade

education and

> had

> not worked in 10 years....just drank everyday. What do you do when

the

> thought of living is worse than the tought of dying? He was tired

of being

> hungry

> and freezing in the winter and had no hope left. He was addicted

to alcohol

> and used all the money he got pan handling to buy liquor. Also, he

had

> absolutely no desire to stop drinking and better his life. What do

you do

> with a

> person like this?

>

> Gab

>

October 21, 2005

Yes a person has a right to commit suicide.

How do you know that this person was not influenced by

drugs or drug withdraw?

Also, you told us that you discovered that everyone

came up with a different label. What year of school

was this?

john

--- Gabdud@... wrote:

> Well, I wish that my suicidal patient had been

> detained a bit longer

> than 48 hours. On Friday, he jumped off an overpass

> above I-94 freeway. Someone

> saw him walking around above the overpass and called

> the police. He panicked

> when the cops got there and jumped. A police

> officer was able to grab his

> arm when he jumped and pull him back up. He was

> taken to a psych ward and was

> detained for two days. He told them at the psych

> ward that he was suicidal

> when they transfered him to our unit. He committed

> suicide the following day in

> his detox room. He hung himself and I found him.

> Just maybe his state of

> mind might have changed if a therapist would have

> talked to him for a longer

> peiod of time to help him bring hope back into his

> life. However, he was homeless

> and an alcoholic, so in my opinion, no one cared

> what happened to him. Why

> else would they release him from the psych ward when

> he said he was going to

> kill himself. Then again, should people have the

> right to end their lives when

> there is no hope left? He was homeless with an

> eighth grade education and had

> not worked in 10 years....just drank everyday. What

> do you do when the

> thought of living is worse than the tought of dying?

> He was tired of being hungry

> and freezing in the winter and had no hope left. He

> was addicted to alcohol

> and used all the money he got pan handling to buy

> liquor. Also, he had

> absolutely no desire to stop drinking and better his

> life. What do you do with a

> person like this?

>

> Gab

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

October 21, 2005

Yes a person has a right to commit suicide.

How do you know that this person was not influenced by

drugs or drug withdraw?

Also, you told us that you discovered that everyone

came up with a different label. What year of school

was this?

john

--- Gabdud@... wrote:

> Well, I wish that my suicidal patient had been

> detained a bit longer

> than 48 hours. On Friday, he jumped off an overpass

> above I-94 freeway. Someone

> saw him walking around above the overpass and called

> the police. He panicked

> when the cops got there and jumped. A police

> officer was able to grab his

> arm when he jumped and pull him back up. He was

> taken to a psych ward and was

> detained for two days. He told them at the psych

> ward that he was suicidal

> when they transfered him to our unit. He committed

> suicide the following day in

> his detox room. He hung himself and I found him.

> Just maybe his state of

> mind might have changed if a therapist would have

> talked to him for a longer

> peiod of time to help him bring hope back into his

> life. However, he was homeless

> and an alcoholic, so in my opinion, no one cared

> what happened to him. Why

> else would they release him from the psych ward when

> he said he was going to

> kill himself. Then again, should people have the

> right to end their lives when

> there is no hope left? He was homeless with an

> eighth grade education and had

> not worked in 10 years....just drank everyday. What

> do you do when the

> thought of living is worse than the tought of dying?

> He was tired of being hungry

> and freezing in the winter and had no hope left. He

> was addicted to alcohol

> and used all the money he got pan handling to buy

> liquor. Also, he had

> absolutely no desire to stop drinking and better his

> life. What do you do with a

> person like this?

>

> Gab

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

October 22, 2005

,

I'm with you on this one! You managed an animal shelter? I have been

doing animal rescue for the past eight years and understand where you are

coming from. I specialize in Pit Bull rescue. I also feel that there are worse

things that can happen than death. I personally would rather be dead than

homeless. I believe that medical assisted suicide is legal in the state of

Oregon.

Gab

October 22, 2005

,

I'm with you on this one! You managed an animal shelter? I have been

doing animal rescue for the past eight years and understand where you are

coming from. I specialize in Pit Bull rescue. I also feel that there are worse

things that can happen than death. I personally would rather be dead than

homeless. I believe that medical assisted suicide is legal in the state of

Oregon.

Gab

October 22, 2005

,

He may have been influenced by alcohol as that was his choice of drug.

He underwent detox at the psych ward while he was strapped down. He had

never been put on any medications in the past, according to his self report....a

form he filled out. He stated he was suicidal because his girlfriend of 15

years kicked him out. He has three children, and she is their mother. He said

he has lost his family and has no reason to live. He had an eighth grade

education and has not worked in 10 years. His girlfriend supported him, so now

he

was homeless. He lost all hope. The students who came up with different

diagnosis were last year students getting ready to graduate. The point is that

our professor said that different therapists can come up with different

diagnosis and no one is right or wrong, it just depends on what we feel the

problem

is. Also, at our rehab center, one of the insurance companies REQUIRES that a

mental illness be the primary diagnosis and alcohol addiction be the secondary

diagnosis in order to cover payment for the patient.

Gab

October 22, 2005

Every situation is different. I'm referring to being homeless when you

have no education, family, support, friends, skills, etc. When you feel

hopeless. If I were homeless in that situation, I would rather be dead.

Gab

October 22, 2005

,

Everybody has a different experience in life and how they deal with

life. Not everyone is as strong as you are. Life is what you make of

it....yes....but some people are self destructive. Shallow? How about living a

sheltered life and trying my best to gain more insight. That's what I'm trying

to do

and it's not easy to admit it. How many people would admit to this? Yes, we

do see the world through our own eyes and guess what, personal experience

palys a lot into how we view the world. Our experience shapes us as to who we

are. That's why every person is unique and no two people will ever agree on

everything. It would be a lot easier for me to just go with the flow in my

profession and hold to my beliefs as most individuals do, but I'm trying to be

open

minded and listen to what others have to say. How many years have you been

focusing on SSRI medications? Has your experience shaped you into the person

you are? Probably so! There are a lot of people out there who would disagree

with what you have to say based on their training and/or experience. Again,

people see things based on their experience, point of view, and what they

choose to believe. I have never been that hard headed because I don't believe I

have all the answers, so I keep an open mind. At least I try to do that and if

someone points out that my thinking is off track, then I listed to what they

have to say and reconsider. I may not always agree with them, but I do take

what they say into consideration.

Gab

October 22, 2005