Re: Family relationships hurt by conflicting beliefs on vaccination

[Guest guest]

Yes..

I would bet that a lot of us can relate to your struggle..

I myself have had disagreement conversations with my relatives..

Yes.. I said relatives.. None of them seem to support my method of

detoxing or curing my son..

I have found it frustrating and lonely..

But the good news is.. You are not alone in your struggles.. There

are the rest of us doing the same as you and get a lot of the same

conflict with people around us.. We support you!!!!

I just now finished an email response back to my brother in law who

is very defensive and angry at me.. Ugh..

Not everyone is as fully researched as you or the rest of us in the

group..

A lot of people are very comfortable to believe the lies of their

standard doctors and the big pharma tell.. That is their

prerogative.. You can lead a horse to water..but you can't make it

drink the water..

A lot of people are afraid of doing anything different from what they

have been told to do for years... My dad is demonstrating against

political candidates who take money from tobacco companies..but he

refuses to accept that it would be better to have a homeopathic

health advisor. Yes.. Very frustrating...

Sometimes it is better to just let it go and let them learn for

themselves..

Hahaha.. Funny how I can make it sound like I know what I am talking

about.. I am still learning this lesson myself.. Even as I type

this...

Hugs,

>

> Hi All,

>

> I just knew that this was the place to share my agony. For the past

> few months my dad has been very negative regarding my decision to

> stop vaccination. Granted he works for the military and believes

that

> those in authority usually know best. Although, sometimes he would

> agree with me that it's probably not good he still thinks it is bad

> to not vaccinate...he said, " good luck with that " . Now today, was a

> huge fight, the fight of all fights that I guess I expected to

come.

>

> I mentioned to him that me and hubby decided to homebirth our

second

> child with a CPM and that a great hospital is just down the road

with

> OBs on hand in case of a need to transfer. He lost it and said I

was

> taking a huge risk and that childbirth is the closest to death I'll

> ever be!~ I couldn't believe my ears. And just minutes ago he was

> telling me about how to boil the perfect hard-boiled egg and how he

> researched tips on that. Yet, he doesn't think to research

> vaccination dangers or the natural birth process and has the gaul

to

> say something like that to me, ignorantly. He told me I was

becoming

> rebellious and dangerous and that he supposed I wasn't going to

> vaccinate the second child, to which I responded " no " . It was as

> though he was just disgusted and mad at me and told me if anything

> happened to me during the homebirth he would hold my spouse

> personally responsible! I mean come on!

>

> Finally he told me that we were crazy and going too far with our

life

> changes, which most have to do with drawing closer in our walk of

> faith and love with the Lord and less to do with pleasing the

world.

> When he told me it was like I was jumping out of an airplane with

no

> parachute and that I was just becoming rebellious and being

paranoid

> and anti-establishment, I just told him to wake up; most of the

> medical industry in the US is a big business making lots of profit

> and quality is sliding fast. Then I said, that if this is how he

> feels I don't want to see him anymore.

>

> So, how many of you have experienced these types of clashes over

your

> decisions to do what you feel is right? I know that the right thing

> is sometimes harder to do because of resistance by others. However,

I

> no longer trust my dad and am not sure what he'll do since he was

> insinuating that I am putting the kids and my health at risk; it

> makes me thing he'd be willing to call social services or

something.

> Although I am providing a loving and healthy evironment for my

> family, I just no longer feel I can trust him nor do I want to have

a

> relationship with someone who would rather I risk my children's

> health for conformity. I thought this would be the only place I can

> share this story with and imagine that at least one more of you

have

> relationships strained because of this type of scenario too.

>

> Thanks for being there!!!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes..

I would bet that a lot of us can relate to your struggle..

I myself have had disagreement conversations with my relatives..

Yes.. I said relatives.. None of them seem to support my method of

detoxing or curing my son..

I have found it frustrating and lonely..

But the good news is.. You are not alone in your struggles.. There

are the rest of us doing the same as you and get a lot of the same

conflict with people around us.. We support you!!!!

I just now finished an email response back to my brother in law who

is very defensive and angry at me.. Ugh..

Not everyone is as fully researched as you or the rest of us in the

group..

A lot of people are very comfortable to believe the lies of their

standard doctors and the big pharma tell.. That is their

prerogative.. You can lead a horse to water..but you can't make it

drink the water..

A lot of people are afraid of doing anything different from what they

have been told to do for years... My dad is demonstrating against

political candidates who take money from tobacco companies..but he

refuses to accept that it would be better to have a homeopathic

health advisor. Yes.. Very frustrating...

Sometimes it is better to just let it go and let them learn for

themselves..

Hahaha.. Funny how I can make it sound like I know what I am talking

about.. I am still learning this lesson myself.. Even as I type

this...

Hugs,

>

> Hi All,

>

> I just knew that this was the place to share my agony. For the past

> few months my dad has been very negative regarding my decision to

> stop vaccination. Granted he works for the military and believes

that

> those in authority usually know best. Although, sometimes he would

> agree with me that it's probably not good he still thinks it is bad

> to not vaccinate...he said, " good luck with that " . Now today, was a

> huge fight, the fight of all fights that I guess I expected to

come.

>

> I mentioned to him that me and hubby decided to homebirth our

second

> child with a CPM and that a great hospital is just down the road

with

> OBs on hand in case of a need to transfer. He lost it and said I

was

> taking a huge risk and that childbirth is the closest to death I'll

> ever be!~ I couldn't believe my ears. And just minutes ago he was

> telling me about how to boil the perfect hard-boiled egg and how he

> researched tips on that. Yet, he doesn't think to research

> vaccination dangers or the natural birth process and has the gaul

to

> say something like that to me, ignorantly. He told me I was

becoming

> rebellious and dangerous and that he supposed I wasn't going to

> vaccinate the second child, to which I responded " no " . It was as

> though he was just disgusted and mad at me and told me if anything

> happened to me during the homebirth he would hold my spouse

> personally responsible! I mean come on!

>

> Finally he told me that we were crazy and going too far with our

life

> changes, which most have to do with drawing closer in our walk of

> faith and love with the Lord and less to do with pleasing the

world.

> When he told me it was like I was jumping out of an airplane with

no

> parachute and that I was just becoming rebellious and being

paranoid

> and anti-establishment, I just told him to wake up; most of the

> medical industry in the US is a big business making lots of profit

> and quality is sliding fast. Then I said, that if this is how he

> feels I don't want to see him anymore.

>

> So, how many of you have experienced these types of clashes over

your

> decisions to do what you feel is right? I know that the right thing

> is sometimes harder to do because of resistance by others. However,

I

> no longer trust my dad and am not sure what he'll do since he was

> insinuating that I am putting the kids and my health at risk; it

> makes me thing he'd be willing to call social services or

something.

> Although I am providing a loving and healthy evironment for my

> family, I just no longer feel I can trust him nor do I want to have

a

> relationship with someone who would rather I risk my children's

> health for conformity. I thought this would be the only place I can

> share this story with and imagine that at least one more of you

have

> relationships strained because of this type of scenario too.

>

> Thanks for being there!!!

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Your Dad is uneduacted and therefore afraid. Check out

www.coping.org, and call your Dad when you are of cooler mind set,

and tell him you respect his thoughts, but, as a conerned informed

woman/parent,you are doing what you feel is in the very best intrest

of your children/family. He should therefore be proud of you educated

decisions, and even if not condoning, you would like respect for your

judgement. Anger=fear much of the time.

Good Luck,

DonaIn no-forced-vaccination , " godardam "

<godardam@...> wrote:

>

> Hi All,

>

> I just knew that this was the place to share my agony. For the past

> few months my dad has been very negative regarding my decision to

> stop vaccination. Granted he works for the military and believes

that

> those in authority usually know best. Although, sometimes he would

> agree with me that it's probably not good he still thinks it is bad

> to not vaccinate...he said, " good luck with that " . Now today, was a

> huge fight, the fight of all fights that I guess I expected to

come.

>

> I mentioned to him that me and hubby decided to homebirth our

second

> child with a CPM and that a great hospital is just down the road

with

> OBs on hand in case of a need to transfer. He lost it and said I

was

> taking a huge risk and that childbirth is the closest to death I'll

> ever be!~ I couldn't believe my ears. And just minutes ago he was

> telling me about how to boil the perfect hard-boiled egg and how he

> researched tips on that. Yet, he doesn't think to research

> vaccination dangers or the natural birth process and has the gaul

to

> say something like that to me, ignorantly. He told me I was

becoming

> rebellious and dangerous and that he supposed I wasn't going to

> vaccinate the second child, to which I responded " no " . It was as

> though he was just disgusted and mad at me and told me if anything

> happened to me during the homebirth he would hold my spouse

> personally responsible! I mean come on!

>

> Finally he told me that we were crazy and going too far with our

life

> changes, which most have to do with drawing closer in our walk of

> faith and love with the Lord and less to do with pleasing the

world.

> When he told me it was like I was jumping out of an airplane with

no

> parachute and that I was just becoming rebellious and being

paranoid

> and anti-establishment, I just told him to wake up; most of the

> medical industry in the US is a big business making lots of profit

> and quality is sliding fast. Then I said, that if this is how he

> feels I don't want to see him anymore.

>

> So, how many of you have experienced these types of clashes over

your

> decisions to do what you feel is right? I know that the right thing

> is sometimes harder to do because of resistance by others. However,

I

> no longer trust my dad and am not sure what he'll do since he was

> insinuating that I am putting the kids and my health at risk; it

> makes me thing he'd be willing to call social services or

something.

> Although I am providing a loving and healthy evironment for my

> family, I just no longer feel I can trust him nor do I want to have

a

> relationship with someone who would rather I risk my children's

> health for conformity. I thought this would be the only place I can

> share this story with and imagine that at least one more of you

have

> relationships strained because of this type of scenario too.

>

> Thanks for being there!!!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Great advice, Dona! Thank you!! ~~Ruth/REU

Re: Family relationships hurt by conflicting beliefs on vaccination

,Your Dad is uneduacted and therefore afraid. Check out www.coping.org, and call your Dad when you are of cooler mind set, and tell him you respect his thoughts, but, as a conerned informed woman/parent,you are doing what you feel is in the very best intrest of your children/family. He should therefore be proud of you educated decisions, and even if not condoning, you would like respect for your judgement. Anger=fear much of the time.Good Luck,DonaIn no-forced-vaccination , "godardam" <godardam@...> wrote:>> Hi All,> > I just knew that this was the place to share my agony. For the past > few months my dad has been very negative regarding my decision to > stop vaccination. Granted he works for the military and believes that > those in authority usually know best. Although, sometimes he would > agree with me that it's probably not good he still thinks it is bad > to not vaccinate...he said, "good luck with that". Now today, was a > huge fight, the fight of all fights that I guess I expected to come. > > I mentioned to him that me and hubby decided to homebirth our second > child with a CPM and that a great hospital is just down the road with > OBs on hand in case of a need to transfer. He lost it and said I was > taking a huge risk and that childbirth is the closest to death I'll > ever be!~ I couldn't believe my ears. And just minutes ago he was > telling me about how to boil the perfect hard-boiled egg and how he > researched tips on that. Yet, he doesn't think to research > vaccination dangers or the natural birth process and has the gaul to > say something like that to me, ignorantly. He told me I was becoming > rebellious and dangerous and that he supposed I wasn't going to > vaccinate the second child, to which I responded "no". It was as > though he was just disgusted and mad at me and told me if anything > happened to me during the homebirth he would hold my spouse > personally responsible! I mean come on!> > Finally he told me that we were crazy and going too far with our life > changes, which most have to do with drawing closer in our walk of > faith and love with the Lord and less to do with pleasing the world. > When he told me it was like I was jumping out of an airplane with no > parachute and that I was just becoming rebellious and being paranoid > and anti-establishment, I just told him to wake up; most of the > medical industry in the US is a big business making lots of profit > and quality is sliding fast. Then I said, that if this is how he > feels I don't want to see him anymore.> > So, how many of you have experienced these types of clashes over your > decisions to do what you feel is right? I know that the right thing > is sometimes harder to do because of resistance by others. However, I > no longer trust my dad and am not sure what he'll do since he was > insinuating that I am putting the kids and my health at risk; it > makes me thing he'd be willing to call social services or something. > Although I am providing a loving and healthy evironment for my > family, I just no longer feel I can trust him nor do I want to have a > relationship with someone who would rather I risk my children's > health for conformity. I thought this would be the only place I can > share this story with and imagine that at least one more of you have > relationships strained because of this type of scenario too.> > Thanks for being there!!!> >

[Guest guest]

Our families are supportive of what we are doing which is a huge relief . Only

one though

,my mother-in-law has shown interest in living a holistic life style she is such

loving

caring woman. My wife is 32 weeks along and " mum mum " has sold her house to come

live

with us. which is so awesome the sad part is her husband who is an older fellow

is

addicted to fentanal among other pain killers we can all see the drugs eroding

his health

physically and mentally.We try to point him to alternatives but he refuses.My

mother is

recovering from breast cancer. She has not embraced a holistic lifestyle

although she has

quit smoking & cut way back on drinking she has no clue how to intake proper

nutrition.

She is learning though I think she's scared to take advice from her 30 y.o. baby

son.My

father a military man and anesthesiologist died of cancer 12 years ago it was so

horrible to

watch him go through that. Before the cancer I remember going to an Air Force

base where

he had to take a physical I was very young at the time but I remember he was

concerned

about a shot he had to take he took it though.He believed in the system. His

sister was

diagnosed with lung cancer last september she had recently moved to SC from PA .

I

remember telling her about raw food diet master cleanse etc alternatives to the

norm. She

said Im not a vegan a few months ago she started her radiation treatment and

they burnt

the hell out of her esophogus nearly killing her she is fighting for her life

now not from

the cancer but from the radiation. My wife and I flew down I'm out of work with

a neck

injury she's pregnant lucklily we had some frequent flyer miles we were saving

for a

vacation.We went down and started to give her kombucha and other probiotics

trying to

get some nutrtion into her hemp protein smoothies raw soups among other things

encouraging her to feel better and not give up .We massaged her comforted her

oiled her

up she was so dry. All the rest of the family & hospice nurse wanted to do was

give her

more pain killers and larazapam an anti anxiety drug. No comfort no love we

could only

stay for 3 days she loved every minute of it. We left recipes with what to make

for her what

she liked and didnt like where to buy it etc.Her own children couldnt even

follow that they

gave her soda to drink milkshakes with the hemp protein or ensure and to top it

off were

arguing with her WTF. She is still alive though and fighting so she can see her

grand

nephew.she told my mom the other day she cant wait for us to come back down we

made

her feel so good.

We are not health care providers we deal with love intelligence and nature there

are many

of us out there I feel for you and your situation I wish so much our families

would wake up

to this madness let us pray !!!!!!!

Much love & dont forget we are about 60 million strong according to some

numbers.They

just don't want to give us our proper respect because it would take away from

the profits

of this horrible system. Stay strong in your convictions and we will too!!!!!!!!

Duke

> >

> > Hi All,

> >

> > I just knew that this was the place to share my agony. For the past

> > few months my dad has been very negative regarding my decision to

> > stop vaccination. Granted he works for the military and believes

> that

> > those in authority usually know best. Although, sometimes he would

> > agree with me that it's probably not good he still thinks it is bad

> > to not vaccinate...he said, " good luck with that " . Now today, was a

> > huge fight, the fight of all fights that I guess I expected to

> come.

> >

> > I mentioned to him that me and hubby decided to homebirth our

> second

> > child with a CPM and that a great hospital is just down the road

> with

> > OBs on hand in case of a need to transfer. He lost it and said I

> was

> > taking a huge risk and that childbirth is the closest to death I'll

> > ever be!~ I couldn't believe my ears. And just minutes ago he was

> > telling me about how to boil the perfect hard-boiled egg and how he

> > researched tips on that. Yet, he doesn't think to research

> > vaccination dangers or the natural birth process and has the gaul

> to

> > say something like that to me, ignorantly. He told me I was

> becoming

> > rebellious and dangerous and that he supposed I wasn't going to

> > vaccinate the second child, to which I responded " no " . It was as

> > though he was just disgusted and mad at me and told me if anything

> > happened to me during the homebirth he would hold my spouse

> > personally responsible! I mean come on!

> >

> > Finally he told me that we were crazy and going too far with our

> life

> > changes, which most have to do with drawing closer in our walk of

> > faith and love with the Lord and less to do with pleasing the

> world.

> > When he told me it was like I was jumping out of an airplane with

> no

> > parachute and that I was just becoming rebellious and being

> paranoid

> > and anti-establishment, I just told him to wake up; most of the

> > medical industry in the US is a big business making lots of profit

> > and quality is sliding fast. Then I said, that if this is how he

> > feels I don't want to see him anymore.

> >

> > So, how many of you have experienced these types of clashes over

> your

> > decisions to do what you feel is right? I know that the right thing

> > is sometimes harder to do because of resistance by others. However,

> I

> > no longer trust my dad and am not sure what he'll do since he was

> > insinuating that I am putting the kids and my health at risk; it

> > makes me thing he'd be willing to call social services or

> something.

> > Although I am providing a loving and healthy evironment for my

> > family, I just no longer feel I can trust him nor do I want to have

> a

> > relationship with someone who would rather I risk my children's

> > health for conformity. I thought this would be the only place I can

> > share this story with and imagine that at least one more of you

> have

> > relationships strained because of this type of scenario too.

> >

> > Thanks for being there!!!

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi -

We faced quite a bit of fallout from my husband's family who are very

medically oriented - the births of three of our four children as well

as a miscarriage at 16 weeks were all at home.

My family was curious and open minded; however, my husband's family

was meddlesome. They called frequently and asked if we were close to

a facility with an operating room. They were officious and

bullying. We were actually concerned that if they knew I was in

labor they might call emergency services to our home.

We dealt with them by 1) letting them know that we had done a lot of

research and were comfortable with our decision and that it was not

something that they had any say in and 2) telling them that I was due

2 weeks later than I actually was.

From your previous posts, I believe you may be too far in your

pregnancy to make such a choice, but let me put out a few thoughts.

First, it sounds as if you and your dad may be fairly close with each

other. Be firm with him, but loving and give him some time to get

used to this idea. If you are confident, he will be less afraid.

Bear in mind that medically oriented people have a blind adherence to

the " authority " figure of the doctor. This gives them the ability to

let go of responsibility for their own health and to believe that

someone else will make " it all ok, " when things are not actually ok.

Remember that they are often afraid - think about the endless little

complaints that medically oriented people go tearing off to the

doctor for!

Second, you do not have to justify your choice repeatedly to your

dad. I think it might be very helpful to give him data about the

safety of homebirth - especially including the facts that infections

are rampant in the hospital, that the act of driving to the hospital

can slow down or stop labor and that the interventions in the

hospital put both the mother and the newborn at risk for being

sectioned. However, I would keep this discussion very simple and non

aggressive.

Third, try to realize that, from what you say, going against the norm

is obviously a very difficult concept for your dad; although, I do

know quite a few military families who have had homebirths. I would

try to keep interactions with him very simple, respectful, but clear

and firm. This is your and your husband's decision, no one else's.

Last, it sounds as if you and your dad covered quite a bit of ground

in only one conversation. It's a pretty big step to say you don't

want to see him anymore. Try not to jump the gun with him and

overreact; if you do, then you'll not only be behaving as ignorantly

as he is, and you'll lose credibility.

Your decision is a good one - it's so much safer to birth at home! I

wish you the very best with this - as well as with coming to a fair

and balanced place with your dad. Good luck, and please let us know

how you fare with this and with the coming of your new baby.

Best,

Theresa

On Jun 22, 2008, at 10:02 PM, godardam wrote:

> Hi All,

>

> I just knew that this was the place to share my agony. For the past

> few months my dad has been very negative regarding my decision to

> stop vaccination. Granted he works for the military and believes that

> those in authority usually know best. Although, sometimes he would

> agree with me that it's probably not good he still thinks it is bad

> to not vaccinate...he said, " good luck with that " . Now today, was a

> huge fight, the fight of all fights that I guess I expected to come.

>

> I mentioned to him that me and hubby decided to homebirth our second

> child with a CPM and that a great hospital is just down the road with

> OBs on hand in case of a need to transfer. He lost it and said I was

> taking a huge risk and that childbirth is the closest to death I'll

> ever be!~ I couldn't believe my ears. And just minutes ago he was

> telling me about how to boil the perfect hard-boiled egg and how he

> researched tips on that. Yet, he doesn't think to research

> vaccination dangers or the natural birth process and has the gaul to

> say something like that to me, ignorantly. He told me I was becoming

> rebellious and dangerous and that he supposed I wasn't going to

> vaccinate the second child, to which I responded " no " . It was as

> though he was just disgusted and mad at me and told me if anything

> happened to me during the homebirth he would hold my spouse

> personally responsible! I mean come on!

>

> Finally he told me that we were crazy and going too far with our life

> changes, which most have to do with drawing closer in our walk of

> faith and love with the Lord and less to do with pleasing the world.

> When he told me it was like I was jumping out of an airplane with no

> parachute and that I was just becoming rebellious and being paranoid

> and anti-establishment, I just told him to wake up; most of the

> medical industry in the US is a big business making lots of profit

> and quality is sliding fast. Then I said, that if this is how he

> feels I don't want to see him anymore.

>

> So, how many of you have experienced these types of clashes over your

> decisions to do what you feel is right? I know that the right thing

> is sometimes harder to do because of resistance by others. However, I

> no longer trust my dad and am not sure what he'll do since he was

> insinuating that I am putting the kids and my health at risk; it

> makes me thing he'd be willing to call social services or something.

> Although I am providing a loving and healthy evironment for my

> family, I just no longer feel I can trust him nor do I want to have a

> relationship with someone who would rather I risk my children's

> health for conformity. I thought this would be the only place I can

> share this story with and imagine that at least one more of you have

> relationships strained because of this type of scenario too.

>

> Thanks for being there!!!

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi -

We faced quite a bit of fallout from my husband's family who are very

medically oriented - the births of three of our four children as well

as a miscarriage at 16 weeks were all at home.

My family was curious and open minded; however, my husband's family

was meddlesome. They called frequently and asked if we were close to

a facility with an operating room. They were officious and

bullying. We were actually concerned that if they knew I was in

labor they might call emergency services to our home.

We dealt with them by 1) letting them know that we had done a lot of

research and were comfortable with our decision and that it was not

something that they had any say in and 2) telling them that I was due

2 weeks later than I actually was.

From your previous posts, I believe you may be too far in your

pregnancy to make such a choice, but let me put out a few thoughts.

First, it sounds as if you and your dad may be fairly close with each

other. Be firm with him, but loving and give him some time to get

used to this idea. If you are confident, he will be less afraid.

Bear in mind that medically oriented people have a blind adherence to

the " authority " figure of the doctor. This gives them the ability to

let go of responsibility for their own health and to believe that

someone else will make " it all ok, " when things are not actually ok.

Remember that they are often afraid - think about the endless little

complaints that medically oriented people go tearing off to the

doctor for!

Second, you do not have to justify your choice repeatedly to your

dad. I think it might be very helpful to give him data about the

safety of homebirth - especially including the facts that infections

are rampant in the hospital, that the act of driving to the hospital

can slow down or stop labor and that the interventions in the

hospital put both the mother and the newborn at risk for being

sectioned. However, I would keep this discussion very simple and non

aggressive.

Third, try to realize that, from what you say, going against the norm

is obviously a very difficult concept for your dad; although, I do

know quite a few military families who have had homebirths. I would

try to keep interactions with him very simple, respectful, but clear

and firm. This is your and your husband's decision, no one else's.

Last, it sounds as if you and your dad covered quite a bit of ground

in only one conversation. It's a pretty big step to say you don't

want to see him anymore. Try not to jump the gun with him and

overreact; if you do, then you'll not only be behaving as ignorantly

as he is, and you'll lose credibility.

Your decision is a good one - it's so much safer to birth at home! I

wish you the very best with this - as well as with coming to a fair

and balanced place with your dad. Good luck, and please let us know

how you fare with this and with the coming of your new baby.

Best,

Theresa

On Jun 22, 2008, at 10:02 PM, godardam wrote:

> Hi All,

>

> I just knew that this was the place to share my agony. For the past

> few months my dad has been very negative regarding my decision to

> stop vaccination. Granted he works for the military and believes that

> those in authority usually know best. Although, sometimes he would

> agree with me that it's probably not good he still thinks it is bad

> to not vaccinate...he said, " good luck with that " . Now today, was a

> huge fight, the fight of all fights that I guess I expected to come.

>

> I mentioned to him that me and hubby decided to homebirth our second

> child with a CPM and that a great hospital is just down the road with

> OBs on hand in case of a need to transfer. He lost it and said I was

> taking a huge risk and that childbirth is the closest to death I'll

> ever be!~ I couldn't believe my ears. And just minutes ago he was

> telling me about how to boil the perfect hard-boiled egg and how he

> researched tips on that. Yet, he doesn't think to research

> vaccination dangers or the natural birth process and has the gaul to

> say something like that to me, ignorantly. He told me I was becoming

> rebellious and dangerous and that he supposed I wasn't going to

> vaccinate the second child, to which I responded " no " . It was as

> though he was just disgusted and mad at me and told me if anything

> happened to me during the homebirth he would hold my spouse

> personally responsible! I mean come on!

>

> Finally he told me that we were crazy and going too far with our life

> changes, which most have to do with drawing closer in our walk of

> faith and love with the Lord and less to do with pleasing the world.

> When he told me it was like I was jumping out of an airplane with no

> parachute and that I was just becoming rebellious and being paranoid

> and anti-establishment, I just told him to wake up; most of the

> medical industry in the US is a big business making lots of profit

> and quality is sliding fast. Then I said, that if this is how he

> feels I don't want to see him anymore.

>

> So, how many of you have experienced these types of clashes over your

> decisions to do what you feel is right? I know that the right thing

> is sometimes harder to do because of resistance by others. However, I

> no longer trust my dad and am not sure what he'll do since he was

> insinuating that I am putting the kids and my health at risk; it

> makes me thing he'd be willing to call social services or something.

> Although I am providing a loving and healthy evironment for my

> family, I just no longer feel I can trust him nor do I want to have a

> relationship with someone who would rather I risk my children's

> health for conformity. I thought this would be the only place I can

> share this story with and imagine that at least one more of you have

> relationships strained because of this type of scenario too.

>

> Thanks for being there!!!

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Excellent advice, Theresa!! Thank you for sharing. ~~Ruth/REU

Re: Family relationships hurt by conflicting beliefs on vaccination

Hi -We faced quite a bit of fallout from my husband's family who are very medically oriented - the births of three of our four children as well as a miscarriage at 16 weeks were all at home.My family was curious and open minded; however, my husband's family was meddlesome. They called frequently and asked if we were close to a facility with an operating room. They were officious and bullying. We were actually concerned that if they knew I was in labor they might call emergency services to our home.We dealt with them by 1) letting them know that we had done a lot of research and were comfortable with our decision and that it was not something that they had any say in and 2) telling them that I was due 2 weeks later than I actually was.From your previous posts, I believe you may be too far in your pregnancy to make such a choice, but let me put out a few thoughts.First, it sounds as if you and your dad may be fairly close with each other. Be firm with him, but loving and give him some time to get used to this idea. If you are confident, he will be less afraid. Bear in mind that medically oriented people have a blind adherence to the "authority" figure of the doctor. This gives them the ability to let go of responsibility for their own health and to believe that someone else will make "it all ok," when things are not actually ok. Remember that they are often afraid - think about the endless little complaints that medically oriented people go tearing off to the doctor for!Second, you do not have to justify your choice repeatedly to your dad. I think it might be very helpful to give him data about the safety of homebirth - especially including the facts that infections are rampant in the hospital, that the act of driving to the hospital can slow down or stop labor and that the interventions in the hospital put both the mother and the newborn at risk for being sectioned. However, I would keep this discussion very simple and non aggressive.Third, try to realize that, from what you say, going against the norm is obviously a very difficult concept for your dad; although, I do know quite a few military families who have had homebirths. I would try to keep interactions with him very simple, respectful, but clear and firm. This is your and your husband's decision, no one else's.Last, it sounds as if you and your dad covered quite a bit of ground in only one conversation. It's a pretty big step to say you don't want to see him anymore. Try not to jump the gun with him and overreact; if you do, then you'll not only be behaving as ignorantly as he is, and you'll lose credibility.Your decision is a good one - it's so much safer to birth at home! I wish you the very best with this - as well as with coming to a fair and balanced place with your dad. Good luck, and please let us know how you fare with this and with the coming of your new baby.Best,TheresaOn Jun 22, 2008, at 10:02 PM, godardam wrote:> Hi All,>> I just knew that this was the place to share my agony. For the past> few months my dad has been very negative regarding my decision to> stop vaccination. Granted he works for the military and believes that> those in authority usually know best. Although, sometimes he would> agree with me that it's probably not good he still thinks it is bad> to not vaccinate...he said, "good luck with that". Now today, was a> huge fight, the fight of all fights that I guess I expected to come.>> I mentioned to him that me and hubby decided to homebirth our second> child with a CPM and that a great hospital is just down the road with> OBs on hand in case of a need to transfer. He lost it and said I was> taking a huge risk and that childbirth is the closest to death I'll> ever be!~ I couldn't believe my ears. And just minutes ago he was> telling me about how to boil the perfect hard-boiled egg and how he> researched tips on that. Yet, he doesn't think to research> vaccination dangers or the natural birth process and has the gaul to> say something like that to me, ignorantly. He told me I was becoming> rebellious and dangerous and that he supposed I wasn't going to> vaccinate the second child, to which I responded "no". It was as> though he was just disgusted and mad at me and told me if anything> happened to me during the homebirth he would hold my spouse> personally responsible! I mean come on!>> Finally he told me that we were crazy and going too far with our life> changes, which most have to do with drawing closer in our walk of> faith and love with the Lord and less to do with pleasing the world.> When he told me it was like I was jumping out of an airplane with no> parachute and that I was just becoming rebellious and being paranoid> and anti-establishment, I just told him to wake up; most of the> medical industry in the US is a big business making lots of profit> and quality is sliding fast. Then I said, that if this is how he> feels I don't want to see him anymore.>> So, how many of you have experienced these types of clashes over your> decisions to do what you feel is right? I know that the right thing> is sometimes harder to do because of resistance by others. However, I> no longer trust my dad and am not sure what he'll do since he was> insinuating that I am putting the kids and my health at risk; it> makes me thing he'd be willing to call social services or something.> Although I am providing a loving and healthy evironment for my> family, I just no longer feel I can trust him nor do I want to have a> relationship with someone who would rather I risk my children's> health for conformity. I thought this would be the only place I can> share this story with and imagine that at least one more of you have> relationships strained because of this type of scenario too.>> Thanks for being there!!!> >>>

[Guest guest]

Excellent advice, Theresa!! Thank you for sharing. ~~Ruth/REU

Re: Family relationships hurt by conflicting beliefs on vaccination

Hi -We faced quite a bit of fallout from my husband's family who are very medically oriented - the births of three of our four children as well as a miscarriage at 16 weeks were all at home.My family was curious and open minded; however, my husband's family was meddlesome. They called frequently and asked if we were close to a facility with an operating room. They were officious and bullying. We were actually concerned that if they knew I was in labor they might call emergency services to our home.We dealt with them by 1) letting them know that we had done a lot of research and were comfortable with our decision and that it was not something that they had any say in and 2) telling them that I was due 2 weeks later than I actually was.From your previous posts, I believe you may be too far in your pregnancy to make such a choice, but let me put out a few thoughts.First, it sounds as if you and your dad may be fairly close with each other. Be firm with him, but loving and give him some time to get used to this idea. If you are confident, he will be less afraid. Bear in mind that medically oriented people have a blind adherence to the "authority" figure of the doctor. This gives them the ability to let go of responsibility for their own health and to believe that someone else will make "it all ok," when things are not actually ok. Remember that they are often afraid - think about the endless little complaints that medically oriented people go tearing off to the doctor for!Second, you do not have to justify your choice repeatedly to your dad. I think it might be very helpful to give him data about the safety of homebirth - especially including the facts that infections are rampant in the hospital, that the act of driving to the hospital can slow down or stop labor and that the interventions in the hospital put both the mother and the newborn at risk for being sectioned. However, I would keep this discussion very simple and non aggressive.Third, try to realize that, from what you say, going against the norm is obviously a very difficult concept for your dad; although, I do know quite a few military families who have had homebirths. I would try to keep interactions with him very simple, respectful, but clear and firm. This is your and your husband's decision, no one else's.Last, it sounds as if you and your dad covered quite a bit of ground in only one conversation. It's a pretty big step to say you don't want to see him anymore. Try not to jump the gun with him and overreact; if you do, then you'll not only be behaving as ignorantly as he is, and you'll lose credibility.Your decision is a good one - it's so much safer to birth at home! I wish you the very best with this - as well as with coming to a fair and balanced place with your dad. Good luck, and please let us know how you fare with this and with the coming of your new baby.Best,TheresaOn Jun 22, 2008, at 10:02 PM, godardam wrote:> Hi All,>> I just knew that this was the place to share my agony. For the past> few months my dad has been very negative regarding my decision to> stop vaccination. Granted he works for the military and believes that> those in authority usually know best. Although, sometimes he would> agree with me that it's probably not good he still thinks it is bad> to not vaccinate...he said, "good luck with that". Now today, was a> huge fight, the fight of all fights that I guess I expected to come.>> I mentioned to him that me and hubby decided to homebirth our second> child with a CPM and that a great hospital is just down the road with> OBs on hand in case of a need to transfer. He lost it and said I was> taking a huge risk and that childbirth is the closest to death I'll> ever be!~ I couldn't believe my ears. And just minutes ago he was> telling me about how to boil the perfect hard-boiled egg and how he> researched tips on that. Yet, he doesn't think to research> vaccination dangers or the natural birth process and has the gaul to> say something like that to me, ignorantly. He told me I was becoming> rebellious and dangerous and that he supposed I wasn't going to> vaccinate the second child, to which I responded "no". It was as> though he was just disgusted and mad at me and told me if anything> happened to me during the homebirth he would hold my spouse> personally responsible! I mean come on!>> Finally he told me that we were crazy and going too far with our life> changes, which most have to do with drawing closer in our walk of> faith and love with the Lord and less to do with pleasing the world.> When he told me it was like I was jumping out of an airplane with no> parachute and that I was just becoming rebellious and being paranoid> and anti-establishment, I just told him to wake up; most of the> medical industry in the US is a big business making lots of profit> and quality is sliding fast. Then I said, that if this is how he> feels I don't want to see him anymore.>> So, how many of you have experienced these types of clashes over your> decisions to do what you feel is right? I know that the right thing> is sometimes harder to do because of resistance by others. However, I> no longer trust my dad and am not sure what he'll do since he was> insinuating that I am putting the kids and my health at risk; it> makes me thing he'd be willing to call social services or something.> Although I am providing a loving and healthy evironment for my> family, I just no longer feel I can trust him nor do I want to have a> relationship with someone who would rather I risk my children's> health for conformity. I thought this would be the only place I can> share this story with and imagine that at least one more of you have> relationships strained because of this type of scenario too.>> Thanks for being there!!!> >>>

[Guest guest]

my sympathies....i finally got a point across to one parent by mentioning that UNLESS a person/doctor does a significant amount of research, they USUALLY can believe ONLY WHAT THEY'RE TAUGHT. And, since there is more and more being learned in the medical field every day, it;s been very helpful to find a good site like medline or alternative therapies, to keep up with changes. That's one reason why doctors and nurses and teachers, and veterinarians, etc areBY LAW required to take a certain number of education courses every year inorder to keep their licenses current.hope this helps.....like, how much of the stuff have you learned years ago thathas been revealed recently to be untrue?  (the world is flat)On Jun 22, 2551 BE, at 7:02 PM, godardam wrote:Hi All,I just knew that this was the place to share my agony. For the past few months my dad has been very negative regarding my decision to stop vaccination. Granted he works for the military and believes that those in authority usually know best. Although, sometimes he would agree with me that it's probably not good he still thinks it is bad to not vaccinate...he said, "good luck with that". Now today, was a huge fight, the fight of all fights that I guess I expected to come. I mentioned to him that me and hubby decided to homebirth our second child with a CPM and that a great hospital is just down the road with OBs on hand in case of a need to transfer. He lost it and said I was taking a huge risk and that childbirth is the closest to death I'll ever be!~ I couldn't believe my ears. And just minutes ago he was telling me about how to boil the perfect hard-boiled egg and how he researched tips on that. Yet, he doesn't think to research vaccination dangers or the natural birth process and has the gaul to say something like that to me, ignorantly. He told me I was becoming rebellious and dangerous and that he supposed I wasn't going to vaccinate the second child, to which I responded "no". It was as though he was just disgusted and mad at me and told me if anything happened to me during the homebirth he would hold my spouse personally responsible! I mean come on!Finally he told me that we were crazy and going too far with our life changes, which most have to do with drawing closer in our walk of faith and love with the Lord and less to do with pleasing the world. When he told me it was like I was jumping out of an airplane with no parachute and that I was just becoming rebellious and being paranoid and anti-establishment, I just told him to wake up; most of the medical industry in the US is a big business making lots of profit and quality is sliding fast. Then I said, that if this is how he feels I don't want to see him anymore.So, how many of you have experienced these types of clashes over your decisions to do what you feel is right? I know that the right thing is sometimes harder to do because of resistance by others. However, I no longer trust my dad and am not sure what he'll do since he was insinuating that I am putting the kids and my health at risk; it makes me thing he'd be willing to call social services or something. Although I am providing a loving and healthy evironment for my family, I just no longer feel I can trust him nor do I want to have a relationship with someone who would rather I risk my children's health for conformity. I thought this would be the only place I can share this story with and imagine that at least one more of you have relationships strained because of this type of scenario too.Thanks for being there!!!

[Guest guest]

my sympathies....i finally got a point across to one parent by mentioning that UNLESS a person/doctor does a significant amount of research, they USUALLY can believe ONLY WHAT THEY'RE TAUGHT. And, since there is more and more being learned in the medical field every day, it;s been very helpful to find a good site like medline or alternative therapies, to keep up with changes. That's one reason why doctors and nurses and teachers, and veterinarians, etc areBY LAW required to take a certain number of education courses every year inorder to keep their licenses current.hope this helps.....like, how much of the stuff have you learned years ago thathas been revealed recently to be untrue?  (the world is flat)On Jun 22, 2551 BE, at 7:02 PM, godardam wrote:Hi All,I just knew that this was the place to share my agony. For the past few months my dad has been very negative regarding my decision to stop vaccination. Granted he works for the military and believes that those in authority usually know best. Although, sometimes he would agree with me that it's probably not good he still thinks it is bad to not vaccinate...he said, "good luck with that". Now today, was a huge fight, the fight of all fights that I guess I expected to come. I mentioned to him that me and hubby decided to homebirth our second child with a CPM and that a great hospital is just down the road with OBs on hand in case of a need to transfer. He lost it and said I was taking a huge risk and that childbirth is the closest to death I'll ever be!~ I couldn't believe my ears. And just minutes ago he was telling me about how to boil the perfect hard-boiled egg and how he researched tips on that. Yet, he doesn't think to research vaccination dangers or the natural birth process and has the gaul to say something like that to me, ignorantly. He told me I was becoming rebellious and dangerous and that he supposed I wasn't going to vaccinate the second child, to which I responded "no". It was as though he was just disgusted and mad at me and told me if anything happened to me during the homebirth he would hold my spouse personally responsible! I mean come on!Finally he told me that we were crazy and going too far with our life changes, which most have to do with drawing closer in our walk of faith and love with the Lord and less to do with pleasing the world. When he told me it was like I was jumping out of an airplane with no parachute and that I was just becoming rebellious and being paranoid and anti-establishment, I just told him to wake up; most of the medical industry in the US is a big business making lots of profit and quality is sliding fast. Then I said, that if this is how he feels I don't want to see him anymore.So, how many of you have experienced these types of clashes over your decisions to do what you feel is right? I know that the right thing is sometimes harder to do because of resistance by others. However, I no longer trust my dad and am not sure what he'll do since he was insinuating that I am putting the kids and my health at risk; it makes me thing he'd be willing to call social services or something. Although I am providing a loving and healthy evironment for my family, I just no longer feel I can trust him nor do I want to have a relationship with someone who would rather I risk my children's health for conformity. I thought this would be the only place I can share this story with and imagine that at least one more of you have relationships strained because of this type of scenario too.Thanks for being there!!!

[Guest guest]

,

Coming to the realizations that we have all come to is not an easy road

for sure! Going against mainstream perceptions is a scary proposition

for many, including your dad. I've learned that I cannot push my

beliefs on anyone else, and since then, nobody has pushed their beliefs

on me either. That said, I still say (and do) what I believe is right

but I don't push it onto others. :-)

From what you have said, it seems that your dad genuinely wants the

best for you and your family. Being in the military confirms the

thinking that it's " my way or the highway " , and " never question

authority " . That's been a part of his creed, and has had to be for his

time in the military.

Try to see it from his point of view. He doesn't have the knowledge

that you have, and he has been taught that the authorities always know

best. If he was to open his eyes to what is really going on around

him, it could be a real slap in the face. Everything that he has

preached and thought was correct would be stomped on. Honestly, I

think that's why so many doctors refuse to come to the conclusion that

vaccines are dangerous.

Your dad needs to understand that your kids (first and foremost) are

your responsibility, and (secondly) that every decision you are making

is for their well-being, and has been researched fully to the best of

your ability.

If your dad is willing - show him the information. There are some

really good books and videos about vaccine safety. One video is by Dr.

Sherri Tenpenny. It is online (free I think on You Tube) and full of

great information to back up your decision. Ask him to watch it (and

do it with him), and tell him that you hope that, with this

information, he will better understand your decisions to protect your

kids. Tell him that you aren't necessarily trying to change his

paradigms, but that you want him to just understand that what you are

doing is raising your family in the healthiest way that you know how -

given the most up to date and well researched, unbiased information.

The goal here should be to get him to understand that even though your

views are different, he needs to respect your decisions as much as you

respect his for the way he raised you. It could be that he feels

criticized for his beliefs because what you are doing is so different

from anything that he would do. We are all doing the best we know how,

given our life experiences, beliefs and fears. Maybe if he can see

that you are truly researching this and you have tons of information

(and many doctors) that back up your decisions, he will be less

critical.

Understanding and patience (even though very difficult) has to start

with you so that the both of you can fix this relationship if at all

possible.

I hope this helps a little bit. Let go of the anger and work on

healing. :-)

Jenn

[Guest guest]

,

Coming to the realizations that we have all come to is not an easy road

for sure! Going against mainstream perceptions is a scary proposition

for many, including your dad. I've learned that I cannot push my

beliefs on anyone else, and since then, nobody has pushed their beliefs

on me either. That said, I still say (and do) what I believe is right

but I don't push it onto others. :-)

From what you have said, it seems that your dad genuinely wants the

best for you and your family. Being in the military confirms the

thinking that it's " my way or the highway " , and " never question

authority " . That's been a part of his creed, and has had to be for his

time in the military.

Try to see it from his point of view. He doesn't have the knowledge

that you have, and he has been taught that the authorities always know

best. If he was to open his eyes to what is really going on around

him, it could be a real slap in the face. Everything that he has

preached and thought was correct would be stomped on. Honestly, I

think that's why so many doctors refuse to come to the conclusion that

vaccines are dangerous.

Your dad needs to understand that your kids (first and foremost) are

your responsibility, and (secondly) that every decision you are making

is for their well-being, and has been researched fully to the best of

your ability.

If your dad is willing - show him the information. There are some

really good books and videos about vaccine safety. One video is by Dr.

Sherri Tenpenny. It is online (free I think on You Tube) and full of

great information to back up your decision. Ask him to watch it (and

do it with him), and tell him that you hope that, with this

information, he will better understand your decisions to protect your

kids. Tell him that you aren't necessarily trying to change his

paradigms, but that you want him to just understand that what you are

doing is raising your family in the healthiest way that you know how -

given the most up to date and well researched, unbiased information.

The goal here should be to get him to understand that even though your

views are different, he needs to respect your decisions as much as you

respect his for the way he raised you. It could be that he feels

criticized for his beliefs because what you are doing is so different

from anything that he would do. We are all doing the best we know how,

given our life experiences, beliefs and fears. Maybe if he can see

that you are truly researching this and you have tons of information

(and many doctors) that back up your decisions, he will be less

critical.

Understanding and patience (even though very difficult) has to start

with you so that the both of you can fix this relationship if at all

possible.

I hope this helps a little bit. Let go of the anger and work on

healing. :-)

Jenn

[Guest guest]

Very good advice, Jenn. And I might add, some remarkable insights. ~~Ruth/REU

Re: Family relationships hurt by conflicting beliefs on vaccination

,Coming to the realizations that we have all come to is not an easy road for sure! Going against mainstream perceptions is a scary proposition for many, including your dad. I've learned that I cannot push my beliefs on anyone else, and since then, nobody has pushed their beliefs on me either. That said, I still say (and do) what I believe is right but I don't push it onto others. :-)From what you have said, it seems that your dad genuinely wants the best for you and your family. Being in the military confirms the thinking that it's "my way or the highway", and "never question authority". That's been a part of his creed, and has had to be for his time in the military.Try to see it from his point of view. He doesn't have the knowledge that you have, and he has been taught that the authorities always know best. If he was to open his eyes to what is really going on around him, it could be a real slap in the face. Everything that he has preached and thought was correct would be stomped on. Honestly, I think that's why so many doctors refuse to come to the conclusion that vaccines are dangerous.Your dad needs to understand that your kids (first and foremost) are your responsibility, and (secondly) that every decision you are making is for their well-being, and has been researched fully to the best of your ability.If your dad is willing - show him the information. There are some really good books and videos about vaccine safety. One video is by Dr. Sherri Tenpenny. It is online (free I think on You Tube) and full of great information to back up your decision. Ask him to watch it (and do it with him), and tell him that you hope that, with this information, he will better understand your decisions to protect your kids. Tell him that you aren't necessarily trying to change his paradigms, but that you want him to just understand that what you are doing is raising your family in the healthiest way that you know how - given the most up to date and well researched, unbiased information.The goal here should be to get him to understand that even though your views are different, he needs to respect your decisions as much as you respect his for the way he raised you. It could be that he feels criticized for his beliefs because what you are doing is so different from anything that he would do. We are all doing the best we know how, given our life experiences, beliefs and fears. Maybe if he can see that you are truly researching this and you have tons of information (and many doctors) that back up your decisions, he will be less critical.Understanding and patience (even though very difficult) has to start with you so that the both of you can fix this relationship if at all possible.I hope this helps a little bit. Let go of the anger and work on healing. :-)Jenn

[Guest guest]

Very good advice, Jenn. And I might add, some remarkable insights. ~~Ruth/REU

Re: Family relationships hurt by conflicting beliefs on vaccination

,Coming to the realizations that we have all come to is not an easy road for sure! Going against mainstream perceptions is a scary proposition for many, including your dad. I've learned that I cannot push my beliefs on anyone else, and since then, nobody has pushed their beliefs on me either. That said, I still say (and do) what I believe is right but I don't push it onto others. :-)From what you have said, it seems that your dad genuinely wants the best for you and your family. Being in the military confirms the thinking that it's "my way or the highway", and "never question authority". That's been a part of his creed, and has had to be for his time in the military.Try to see it from his point of view. He doesn't have the knowledge that you have, and he has been taught that the authorities always know best. If he was to open his eyes to what is really going on around him, it could be a real slap in the face. Everything that he has preached and thought was correct would be stomped on. Honestly, I think that's why so many doctors refuse to come to the conclusion that vaccines are dangerous.Your dad needs to understand that your kids (first and foremost) are your responsibility, and (secondly) that every decision you are making is for their well-being, and has been researched fully to the best of your ability.If your dad is willing - show him the information. There are some really good books and videos about vaccine safety. One video is by Dr. Sherri Tenpenny. It is online (free I think on You Tube) and full of great information to back up your decision. Ask him to watch it (and do it with him), and tell him that you hope that, with this information, he will better understand your decisions to protect your kids. Tell him that you aren't necessarily trying to change his paradigms, but that you want him to just understand that what you are doing is raising your family in the healthiest way that you know how - given the most up to date and well researched, unbiased information.The goal here should be to get him to understand that even though your views are different, he needs to respect your decisions as much as you respect his for the way he raised you. It could be that he feels criticized for his beliefs because what you are doing is so different from anything that he would do. We are all doing the best we know how, given our life experiences, beliefs and fears. Maybe if he can see that you are truly researching this and you have tons of information (and many doctors) that back up your decisions, he will be less critical.Understanding and patience (even though very difficult) has to start with you so that the both of you can fix this relationship if at all possible.I hope this helps a little bit. Let go of the anger and work on healing. :-)Jenn

[Guest guest]

Stop telling him this stuff. It's in his DNA to worry as he is your dad. It's also a hard wired response to "believe in and support" military line of thinking. My husband is military and it was a struggle to get him to believe me about vaccines . . . except we have two vaccine injured kids, that made it easier, then he lost hearing in his left ear from his Hep B shots that he could nto get out of (he did get out of third one) and now totally believes me!!!! This is a man who wears hearing protection to MOW his lawn and now he's lost hearing. He's so frustrated he can't see straight and I get pissed trying to figure out if he really can't hear me or if he is ignoring me -- LOL.

Talk to your husband, your friends, maybe even your mom, but leave dad out of this conversations unless he pushes it and wants to know!! Just invite him to meet baby after the fact and GOOD JOB standing strong. Don't forget to breastfeed

Family relationships hurt by conflicting beliefs on vaccination

Hi All,I just knew that this was the place to share my agony. For the past few months my dad has been very negative regarding my decision to stop vaccination. Granted he works for the military and believes that those in authority usually know best. Although, sometimes he would agree with me that it's probably not good he still thinks it is bad to not vaccinate... he said, "good luck with that". Now today, was a huge fight, the fight of all fights that I guess I expected to come. I mentioned to him that me and hubby decided to homebirth our second child with a CPM and that a great hospital is just down the road with OBs on hand in case of a need to transfer. He lost it and said I was taking a huge risk and that childbirth is the closest to death I'll ever be!~ I couldn't believe my ears. And just minutes ago he was telling me about how to boil the perfect hard-boiled egg and how he

researched tips on that. Yet, he doesn't think to research vaccination dangers or the natural birth process and has the gaul to say something like that to me, ignorantly. He told me I was becoming rebellious and dangerous and that he supposed I wasn't going to vaccinate the second child, to which I responded "no". It was as though he was just disgusted and mad at me and told me if anything happened to me during the homebirth he would hold my spouse personally responsible! I mean come on!Finally he told me that we were crazy and going too far with our life changes, which most have to do with drawing closer in our walk of faith and love with the Lord and less to do with pleasing the world. When he told me it was like I was jumping out of an airplane with no parachute and that I was just becoming rebellious and being paranoid and anti-establishment, I just told him to wake up; most of the

medical industry in the US is a big business making lots of profit and quality is sliding fast. Then I said, that if this is how he feels I don't want to see him anymore.So, how many of you have experienced these types of clashes over your decisions to do what you feel is right? I know that the right thing is sometimes harder to do because of resistance by others. However, I no longer trust my dad and am not sure what he'll do since he was insinuating that I am putting the kids and my health at risk; it makes me thing he'd be willing to call social services or something. Although I am providing a loving and healthy evironment for my family, I just no longer feel I can trust him nor do I want to have a relationship with someone who would rather I risk my children's health for conformity. I thought this would be the only place I can share this story with and imagine that at least one more of you

have relationships strained because of this type of scenario too.Thanks for being there!!!

[Guest guest]

Very Good Points..

My dad refuses to listen to what I tell him.. He was former Navy..

He prefers to use his Kaiser Permanente Drs.. His prerogative..

Ugh..

I just happened to marry a Coast Guardsman..now retired.. I have

just recently made the conclusion that in a sense.. I married my

dad..(a younger version of him..) How frustrating..

It is hard to speak against the long ingrained military mindset..

Ugh..

I can attest to that..

Hugs,

>

> Stop telling him this stuff. It's in his DNA to worry as he is your

dad. It's also a hard wired response to " believe in and support "

military line of thinking. My husband is military and it was a

struggle to get him to believe me about vaccines . . .  except we

have two vaccine injured kids, that made it easier, then he lost

hearing in his left ear from his Hep B shots that he could nto get

out of (he did get out of third one) and now totally believes me!!!!

This is a man who wears hearing protection to MOW his lawn and now

he's lost hearing. He's so frustrated he can't see straight and I get

pissed trying to figure out if he really can't hear me or if he is

ignoring me -- LOL.

> Talk to your husband, your friends, maybe even your mom, but leave

dad out of this conversations unless he pushes it and wants to know!!

Just invite him to meet baby after the fact and GOOD JOB standing

strong.. Don't forget to breastfeed

>

>

>

> Family relationships hurt by

conflicting beliefs on vaccination

>

>

> Hi All,

>

> I just knew that this was the place to share my agony. For the past

> few months my dad has been very negative regarding my decision to

> stop vaccination. Granted he works for the military and believes

that

> those in authority usually know best. Although, sometimes he would

> agree with me that it's probably not good he still thinks it is bad

> to not vaccinate... he said, " good luck with that " . Now today, was

a

> huge fight, the fight of all fights that I guess I expected to

come.

>

> I mentioned to him that me and hubby decided to homebirth our

second

> child with a CPM and that a great hospital is just down the road

with

> OBs on hand in case of a need to transfer. He lost it and said I

was

> taking a huge risk and that childbirth is the closest to death I'll

> ever be!~ I couldn't believe my ears. And just minutes ago he was

> telling me about how to boil the perfect hard-boiled egg and how he

> researched tips on that. Yet, he doesn't think to research

> vaccination dangers or the natural birth process and has the gaul

to

> say something like that to me, ignorantly. He told me I was

becoming

> rebellious and dangerous and that he supposed I wasn't going to

> vaccinate the second child, to which I responded " no " . It was as

> though he was just disgusted and mad at me and told me if anything

> happened to me during the homebirth he would hold my spouse

> personally responsible! I mean come on!

>

> Finally he told me that we were crazy and going too far with our

life

> changes, which most have to do with drawing closer in our walk of

> faith and love with the Lord and less to do with pleasing the

world.

> When he told me it was like I was jumping out of an airplane with

no

> parachute and that I was just becoming rebellious and being

paranoid

> and anti-establishment, I just told him to wake up; most of the

> medical industry in the US is a big business making lots of profit

> and quality is sliding fast. Then I said, that if this is how he

> feels I don't want to see him anymore.

>

> So, how many of you have experienced these types of clashes over

your

> decisions to do what you feel is right? I know that the right thing

> is sometimes harder to do because of resistance by others. However,

I

> no longer trust my dad and am not sure what he'll do since he was

> insinuating that I am putting the kids and my health at risk; it

> makes me thing he'd be willing to call social services or

something.

> Although I am providing a loving and healthy evironment for my

> family, I just no longer feel I can trust him nor do I want to have

a

> relationship with someone who would rather I risk my children's

> health for conformity. I thought this would be the only place I can

> share this story with and imagine that at least one more of you

have

> relationships strained because of this type of scenario too.

>

> Thanks for being there!!!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Theresa wrote in her post:

> Second, you do not have to justify your choice repeatedly to your

> dad. I think it might be very helpful to give him data about the

> safety of homebirth - especially including the facts that infections

> are rampant in the hospital, that the act of driving to the hospital

> can slow down or stop labor and that the interventions in the

> hospital put both the mother and the newborn at risk for being

> sectioned. However, I would keep this discussion very simple and non

> aggressive.

,

I wanted to let you know about a couple of things that may help if your

dad is willing to read some information. The first is a book

called " Gentle Birth Choices " by Barbara Harper RN. The first three

chapters are titled

1. Gentle Beginnings

2. The Medicalization of Childbirth

3. Dispelling the Medical Myths

The first two myths listed are:

The Hospital is the Safest Place to Have a Baby and

Maternity Care Should Be Managed Only By a Physician

These were very helpful to my mother and put her mind at ease when I

was planning my homebirth with my son. Now, even after the fact my mom

says " wow, you are so brave " and I say " no, I was empowered by

knowledge through research. "

The second thing I wanted to let you know about is a petition that is

about keeping homebirth legal. The petition is at

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/birthathome/

The reason I am letting you know about this is because thousands of

women and men have signed it already and there are a lot of great

comments that people have written about homebirth and how great it is.

Again, if he is willing maybe reading those comments from people who

have had a homebirth may help to put his mind at ease and let him know

that you are not crazy. There are MD's and Nurses that have signed it

and lawyers and I am sure military people also. When I first found out

about the petition 4 days ago only about 360 people had signed it, now

there are almost 4000 people.

The third thing is about vaccinations, I wanted to suggest the

book " Vaccines, Are they Really Safe and Effective " by Neil Z. .

I of course do not know if you have heard about it, but it is a very

easy read and has lots of great information.

Good luck with your dad, I hope that your relationship survives this

struggle and disagreement about these two issues.

[Guest guest]

As my family (three brothers and 1 sister, both parents have gone on) and I have not spoken since my father passed on in 94 I frankly don't care what their opinion is of our decisions. The same goes for my husbands family. My M-I-L does support our choices even if she doesn't understand them all. My B-I-L and his wife know of our choices but keep their opinions to themselves.

What you have to ask yourself is this: "If I do as my father wants and my child in neurologically damaged who will take care of him/her?" (Much along the same line of presenting that famous vaccine responsibility letter to your pediatrician. ) If the answer is you then what you father thinks or says should have no bearing on your decision. Your child is YOUR responsibility and YOU must be the one to make the decisions not someone who is too afraid to take the blinders off.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Be At Peace,Deborah A & Rodney E Delp Sr AEPs of: (13, Mercury Toxic)JR (10 VERY Mercury Toxic)E-Mail Me @ delpfamily@...Phone: 717-440-5341

Autism-Hope Websitewww.autism-hope.150m.com

Autism & Vaccinations autism_and_vaccinations

"It's Not Enough 2 act Like We Care; WE MUST CARE ENOUGH TO ACT...!!!"

If God Brings you to itHe will bring you thru it.

==================================================================>> Hi All,> > I just knew that this was the place to share my agony. For the past > few months my dad has been very negative regarding my decision to > stop vaccination. Granted he works for the military and believes that > those in authority usually know best. Although, sometimes he would > agree with me that it's probably not good he still thinks it is bad > to not vaccinate...he said, "good luck with that". Now today, was a > huge fight, the fight of all fights that I guess I expected to come. > > I mentioned to him that me and hubby decided to homebirth our second > child with a CPM and that a great hospital is just down the road with > OBs on hand in case of a need to transfer. He lost it and said I was > taking a huge risk and that childbirth is the closest to death I'll > ever be!~ I couldn't believe my ears. And just minutes ago he was > telling me about how to boil the perfect hard-boiled egg and how he > researched tips on that. Yet, he doesn't think to research > vaccination dangers or the natural birth process and has the gaul to > say something like that to me, ignorantly. He told me I was becoming > rebellious and dangerous and that he supposed I wasn't going to > vaccinate the second child, to which I responded "no". It was as > though he was just disgusted and mad at me and told me if anything > happened to me during the homebirth he would hold my spouse > personally responsible! I mean come on!> > Finally he told me that we were crazy and going too far with our life > changes, which most have to do with drawing closer in our walk of > faith and love with the Lord and less to do with pleasing the world. > When he told me it was like I was jumping out of an airplane with no > parachute and that I was just becoming rebellious and being paranoid > and anti-establishment, I just told him to wake up; most of the > medical industry in the US is a big business making lots of profit > and quality is sliding fast. Then I said, that if this is how he > feels I don't want to see him anymore.> > So, how many of you have experienced these types of clashes over your > decisions to do what you feel is right? I know that the right thing > is sometimes harder to do because of resistance by others. However, I > no longer trust my dad and am not sure what he'll do since he was > insinuating that I am putting the kids and my health at risk; it > makes me thing he'd be willing to call social services or something. > Although I am providing a loving and healthy evironment for my > family, I just no longer feel I can trust him nor do I want to have a > relationship with someone who would rather I risk my children's > health for conformity. I thought this would be the only place I can > share this story with and imagine that at least one more of you have > relationships strained because of this type of scenario too.> > Thanks for being there!!!> >

[Guest guest]

,

My husband and I decided to have homebirths for our children and when

we made this declaration to our family, it was met w/disbelief and concerns for

our babies' safety. I understand how they could feel this way w/o the info

necessary to make this decision. Despite my best efforts to educate them and

give them all manner of info, they declined to read or hear of my alternative

ideas.

My sister-in-law was a pharmaceutical rep, and I come from a strong medical

field from my dad's side (my grandfather was a doctor) and I have

a few nurses on both sides. Not everyone weighed in, but I definitely felt my

views were being challenged. I stuck to my guns and we went the route of

homebirth, which I'll always be grateful for.

The only thing I submitted to was a PKU test that my midwife offered and I could

have declined, but decided to go ahead. Looking back, I could have refused this

one, and my kids would have been fine nonetheless.

My mother in all the years our kids were growing up refused to read any of the

info I would leave w/her and would always encourage me to 'do the right thing'

and get my kids vaccinated. My dad stayed silent on this front. On her

deathbed, she actually asked me (thinking I couldn't deny a dying woman her last

wish) if I would do her a favor and vaccinate my kids!! I thought about it and

could have lied to make her happy, but said, 'you know how I feel Mom, that's

something I can't do.' She didn't say another word, but I know she is looking

down from heaven or wherever, and knowing I made the right choice.

I think your dad is feeling his control of you is slipping as parents sometimes

feel this way when their kids don't appear to need them anymore. I'm sure it's

scary for him and he's feeling insecure about his lack of authority w/you. I

applaud you for standing up to him as difficult as that might be. However, you

have to be true to yourself and your baby and do what YOU feel is best. I've

never regretted my decision even w/my well-meaning family and friends who

thought otherwise. I didn't waver, and I eventually met several doctors who

don't vaccinate their own kids nor recommend them to their patients. I also met

families of vaccine-damaged children and they would tell me heart-breaking

stories of how beautiful and bright their kids 'once were.' I just couldn't

believe that these kids would never have a normal life, although the facts were

such that they wouldn't.

Stick to your guns and eventually when your baby grows into this beautiful,

healthy, bright little being, that will speak volumes to everyone who doubted

your decision. That's what happened w/our kids

and they have turned out beautifully without one vaccine. No one said

a word after they were born, except my mom, as they could see how wonderful

they were turning out. Case closed.

[Guest guest]

,

My husband and I decided to have homebirths for our children and when

we made this declaration to our family, it was met w/disbelief and concerns for

our babies' safety. I understand how they could feel this way w/o the info

necessary to make this decision. Despite my best efforts to educate them and

give them all manner of info, they declined to read or hear of my alternative

ideas.

My sister-in-law was a pharmaceutical rep, and I come from a strong medical

field from my dad's side (my grandfather was a doctor) and I have

a few nurses on both sides. Not everyone weighed in, but I definitely felt my

views were being challenged. I stuck to my guns and we went the route of

homebirth, which I'll always be grateful for.

The only thing I submitted to was a PKU test that my midwife offered and I could

have declined, but decided to go ahead. Looking back, I could have refused this

one, and my kids would have been fine nonetheless.

My mother in all the years our kids were growing up refused to read any of the

info I would leave w/her and would always encourage me to 'do the right thing'

and get my kids vaccinated. My dad stayed silent on this front. On her

deathbed, she actually asked me (thinking I couldn't deny a dying woman her last

wish) if I would do her a favor and vaccinate my kids!! I thought about it and

could have lied to make her happy, but said, 'you know how I feel Mom, that's

something I can't do.' She didn't say another word, but I know she is looking

down from heaven or wherever, and knowing I made the right choice.

I think your dad is feeling his control of you is slipping as parents sometimes

feel this way when their kids don't appear to need them anymore. I'm sure it's

scary for him and he's feeling insecure about his lack of authority w/you. I

applaud you for standing up to him as difficult as that might be. However, you

have to be true to yourself and your baby and do what YOU feel is best. I've

never regretted my decision even w/my well-meaning family and friends who

thought otherwise. I didn't waver, and I eventually met several doctors who

don't vaccinate their own kids nor recommend them to their patients. I also met

families of vaccine-damaged children and they would tell me heart-breaking

stories of how beautiful and bright their kids 'once were.' I just couldn't

believe that these kids would never have a normal life, although the facts were

such that they wouldn't.

Stick to your guns and eventually when your baby grows into this beautiful,

healthy, bright little being, that will speak volumes to everyone who doubted

your decision. That's what happened w/our kids

and they have turned out beautifully without one vaccine. No one said

a word after they were born, except my mom, as they could see how wonderful

they were turning out. Case closed.

[Guest guest]

I appreciate your response and all the support this group has shown! However, there is a line that was crossed when he threatened my husband to be fully responsible for any problems that should arise. He also makes me question if he thinks that my homebirth and decision to no longer vaccinate is putting the children at risk and they way he was talking was almost as if he may need to have someone step in (social services). I actually don't push my beliefs on him and in fact only discuss things casually and as they are brought up. I am disappointed that he feels the need to threaten my husband as well as completely disregard my decision making ability. He told me that he doesn't need to read anything or do any research or watch any informational DVD's that he won't change his opinion. I was fine with having a difference of opinion, believe me it's not the

first time. The problem was with his threats and hostility toward me. I've thought and prayed on this a lot and I know he is not the only person out there that believes propaganda yet he thinks I am delusional and rebellious because I know there is manipulation, greed, and propaganda so others can get richer.

I forgive him for what he has said and done to hurt me and my husband but I need for me and my dad to have some space so he and I can equally consider what has happened. Forcing a discussion on this too soon will cause further damage. Also, in all honesty, I expect him to apologize at least to my hubby and I need to feel like I can trust him that he doesn't think he needs to get anyone involved to investigate our "radical" decisions to not vaccinate or birth in a hospital.

I know in this world we are all doing what we feel is right or comfortable. However, when we stop allowing people to belive what they believe and start throwing hostilities as someone just because of difference in philosophy or spiritual beliefs, then loss occurs. Loss of true spirit of openness and unity. We become divided and that is what seems to happen eventually when I talk about these types of things with people; they either don't mind or they hate it. Freedom. It's not a simple thing to discuss with people of differing opinion; especially with those who won't consider anything outside of their comfort zone.

Envoyé avec .Une boite mail plus intelligente.

[Guest guest]

I appreciate your response and all the support this group has shown! However, there is a line that was crossed when he threatened my husband to be fully responsible for any problems that should arise. He also makes me question if he thinks that my homebirth and decision to no longer vaccinate is putting the children at risk and they way he was talking was almost as if he may need to have someone step in (social services). I actually don't push my beliefs on him and in fact only discuss things casually and as they are brought up. I am disappointed that he feels the need to threaten my husband as well as completely disregard my decision making ability. He told me that he doesn't need to read anything or do any research or watch any informational DVD's that he won't change his opinion. I was fine with having a difference of opinion, believe me it's not the

first time. The problem was with his threats and hostility toward me. I've thought and prayed on this a lot and I know he is not the only person out there that believes propaganda yet he thinks I am delusional and rebellious because I know there is manipulation, greed, and propaganda so others can get richer.

I forgive him for what he has said and done to hurt me and my husband but I need for me and my dad to have some space so he and I can equally consider what has happened. Forcing a discussion on this too soon will cause further damage. Also, in all honesty, I expect him to apologize at least to my hubby and I need to feel like I can trust him that he doesn't think he needs to get anyone involved to investigate our "radical" decisions to not vaccinate or birth in a hospital.

I know in this world we are all doing what we feel is right or comfortable. However, when we stop allowing people to belive what they believe and start throwing hostilities as someone just because of difference in philosophy or spiritual beliefs, then loss occurs. Loss of true spirit of openness and unity. We become divided and that is what seems to happen eventually when I talk about these types of things with people; they either don't mind or they hate it. Freedom. It's not a simple thing to discuss with people of differing opinion; especially with those who won't consider anything outside of their comfort zone.

Envoyé avec .Une boite mail plus intelligente.

[Guest guest]

>

> I appreciate your response and all the support this group has

shown! However, there is a line that was crossed when he threatened

my husband to be fully responsible for any problems that should

arise. He also makes me question if he thinks that my homebirth and

decision to no longer vaccinate is putting the children at risk and

they way he was talking was almost as if he may need to have someone

step in (social services). I actually don't push my beliefs on him

and in fact only discuss things casually and as they are brought up.

I am disappointed that he feels the need to threaten my husband as

well as completely disregard my decision making ability. He told me

that he doesn't need to read anything or do any research or watch any

informational DVD's that he won't change his opinion. I was fine with

having a difference of opinion, believe me it's not the first time.

The problem was with his threats and hostility toward me. I've

thought and prayed on this

> a lot and I know he is not the only person out there that believes

propaganda yet he thinks I am delusional and rebellious because I

know there is manipulation, greed, and propaganda so others can get

richer.

>  

> I forgive him for what he has said and done to hurt me and my

husband but I need for me and my dad to have some space so he and I

can equally consider what has happened. Forcing a discussion on this

too soon will cause further damage. Also, in all honesty, I expect

him to apologize at least to my hubby and I need to feel like I can

trust him that he doesn't think he needs to get anyone involved to

investigate our " radical " decisions to not vaccinate or birth in a

hospital.

>  

> I know in this world we are all doing what we feel is right or

comfortable. However, when we stop allowing people to belive what

they believe and start throwing hostilities as someone just because

of difference in philosophy or spiritual beliefs, then loss occurs.

Loss of true spirit of openness and unity. We become divided and that

is what seems to happen eventually when I talk about these types of

things with people; they either don't mind or they hate it. Freedom.

It's not a simple thing to discuss with people of differing opinion;

especially with those who won't consider anything outside of their

comfort zone.

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

_______

> Envoyez avec . Une boite mail plus intelligente

http://mail..fr

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I appreciate your response and all the support this group has

shown! However, there is a line that was crossed when he threatened

my husband to be fully responsible for any problems that should

arise. He also makes me question if he thinks that my homebirth and

decision to no longer vaccinate is putting the children at risk and

they way he was talking was almost as if he may need to have someone

step in (social services). I actually don't push my beliefs on him

and in fact only discuss things casually and as they are brought up.

I am disappointed that he feels the need to threaten my husband as

well as completely disregard my decision making ability. He told me

that he doesn't need to read anything or do any research or watch any

informational DVD's that he won't change his opinion. I was fine with

having a difference of opinion, believe me it's not the first time.

The problem was with his threats and hostility toward me. I've

thought and prayed on this

> a lot and I know he is not the only person out there that believes

propaganda yet he thinks I am delusional and rebellious because I

know there is manipulation, greed, and propaganda so others can get

richer.

>  

> I forgive him for what he has said and done to hurt me and my

husband but I need for me and my dad to have some space so he and I

can equally consider what has happened. Forcing a discussion on this

too soon will cause further damage. Also, in all honesty, I expect

him to apologize at least to my hubby and I need to feel like I can

trust him that he doesn't think he needs to get anyone involved to

investigate our " radical " decisions to not vaccinate or birth in a

hospital.

>  

> I know in this world we are all doing what we feel is right or

comfortable. However, when we stop allowing people to belive what

they believe and start throwing hostilities as someone just because

of difference in philosophy or spiritual beliefs, then loss occurs.

Loss of true spirit of openness and unity. We become divided and that

is what seems to happen eventually when I talk about these types of

things with people; they either don't mind or they hate it. Freedom.

It's not a simple thing to discuss with people of differing opinion;

especially with those who won't consider anything outside of their

comfort zone.

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

_______

> Envoyez avec . Une boite mail plus intelligente

http://mail..fr

>