Guest guest Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 , Your entitled to your opinion and so am I, so let's move on. john --- Creel <catherine.creel@...> wrote: > <<From: " Bilbo Shaggins " <bilboshaggins@...> > > > Actually " Cash " you are full of bullshit and > don't know what you're > talking about!!! My husband is a trained > psychologist and he's told me that > patients are at their biggest risk NOT when they > initially appear for the > psychology sessions, but when they start to get > better (WITHOUT the use of > medications). This is indeed because they have more > energy, yet they are > still suicidal. And if they start to feel better, > but dip back into > depression, it really squelches their hope of > healing. This is basic > psychology trainging 101. Shutup and stop attacking > when you don't know the > truth - Gab is right.>> > > > ** There's no doubt that misunderstood > Gab's intention but > your contention that this is " psychology training > 101 " would more > correctly be called " drug company propaganda 101 " . > -- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 Why do you guys accuse me of propaganda?!?! This is in psychology text books 101 and does not have anything to do with medications! It is a fact - when people start to get better in therapy, they are at high risk of killing themselves, it's a strange but true phenomenon. Please ask a therapist you can trust if you don't believe me. My husband was learning this back in the early 70's, BEFORE antidepressants. Please stop saying I'm a liar because I'm not. >From: Creel <catherine.creel@...> >Reply-SSRI medications >SSRI medications >Subject: Full of it - Cash >Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:03:23 -0400 > ><<From: " Bilbo Shaggins " <bilboshaggins@...> > > >Actually " Cash " you are full of bullshit and don't know what you're >talking about!!! My husband is a trained psychologist and he's told me >that >patients are at their biggest risk NOT when they initially appear for the >psychology sessions, but when they start to get better (WITHOUT the use of >medications). This is indeed because they have more energy, yet they are >still suicidal. And if they start to feel better, but dip back into >depression, it really squelches their hope of healing. This is basic >psychology trainging 101. Shutup and stop attacking when you don't know >the >truth - Gab is right.>> > > > ** There's no doubt that misunderstood Gab's intention but >your contention that this is " psychology training 101 " would more >correctly be called " drug company propaganda 101 " . >-- > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Your right, , I missed the boat, when it comes to who wrote what. Gab, A couple of my remarks where unjustified and I apologise for them. I have not read all your posts, yet. Sincerely, john --- john cash <jbc999@...> wrote: > , > > Your entitled to your opinion and so am I, so let's > move on. > > john > > --- Creel <catherine.creel@...> > wrote: > > > <<From: " Bilbo Shaggins " > <bilboshaggins@...> > > > > > > Actually " Cash " you are full of bullshit and > > don't know what you're > > talking about!!! My husband is a trained > > psychologist and he's told me that > > patients are at their biggest risk NOT when they > > initially appear for the > > psychology sessions, but when they start to get > > better (WITHOUT the use of > > medications). This is indeed because they have > more > > energy, yet they are > > still suicidal. And if they start to feel better, > > but dip back into > > depression, it really squelches their hope of > > healing. This is basic > > psychology trainging 101. Shutup and stop > attacking > > when you don't know the > > truth - Gab is right.>> > > > > > > ** There's no doubt that misunderstood > > Gab's intention but > > your contention that this is " psychology training > > 101 " would more > > correctly be called " drug company propaganda 101 " . > > -- > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Your right, , I missed the boat, when it comes to who wrote what. Gab, A couple of my remarks where unjustified and I apologise for them. I have not read all your posts, yet. Sincerely, john --- john cash <jbc999@...> wrote: > , > > Your entitled to your opinion and so am I, so let's > move on. > > john > > --- Creel <catherine.creel@...> > wrote: > > > <<From: " Bilbo Shaggins " > <bilboshaggins@...> > > > > > > Actually " Cash " you are full of bullshit and > > don't know what you're > > talking about!!! My husband is a trained > > psychologist and he's told me that > > patients are at their biggest risk NOT when they > > initially appear for the > > psychology sessions, but when they start to get > > better (WITHOUT the use of > > medications). This is indeed because they have > more > > energy, yet they are > > still suicidal. And if they start to feel better, > > but dip back into > > depression, it really squelches their hope of > > healing. This is basic > > psychology trainging 101. Shutup and stop > attacking > > when you don't know the > > truth - Gab is right.>> > > > > > > ** There's no doubt that misunderstood > > Gab's intention but > > your contention that this is " psychology training > > 101 " would more > > correctly be called " drug company propaganda 101 " . > > -- > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Bilbo There were antidepressants in use long before the 70's > > Why do you guys accuse me of propaganda?!?! This is in psychology text > books 101 and does not have anything to do with medications! It is a fact - > when people start to get better in therapy, they are at high risk of killing > themselves, it's a strange but true phenomenon. Please ask a therapist you > can trust if you don't believe me. My husband was learning this back in the > early 70's, BEFORE antidepressants. Please stop saying I'm a liar because > I'm not. > > > > >From: Creel <catherine.creel@g...> > >Reply-SSRI medications > >SSRI medications > >Subject: Full of it - Cash > >Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:03:23 -0400 > > > ><<From: " Bilbo Shaggins " <bilboshaggins@h...> > > > > > >Actually " Cash " you are full of bullshit and don't know what you're > >talking about!!! My husband is a trained psychologist and he's told me > >that > >patients are at their biggest risk NOT when they initially appear for the > >psychology sessions, but when they start to get better (WITHOUT the use of > >medications). This is indeed because they have more energy, yet they are > >still suicidal. And if they start to feel better, but dip back into > >depression, it really squelches their hope of healing. This is basic > >psychology trainging 101. Shutup and stop attacking when you don't know > >the > >truth - Gab is right.>> > > > > > > ** There's no doubt that misunderstood Gab's intention but > >your contention that this is " psychology training 101 " would more > >correctly be called " drug company propaganda 101 " . > >-- > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Bilbo There were antidepressants in use long before the 70's > > Why do you guys accuse me of propaganda?!?! This is in psychology text > books 101 and does not have anything to do with medications! It is a fact - > when people start to get better in therapy, they are at high risk of killing > themselves, it's a strange but true phenomenon. Please ask a therapist you > can trust if you don't believe me. My husband was learning this back in the > early 70's, BEFORE antidepressants. Please stop saying I'm a liar because > I'm not. > > > > >From: Creel <catherine.creel@g...> > >Reply-SSRI medications > >SSRI medications > >Subject: Full of it - Cash > >Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:03:23 -0400 > > > ><<From: " Bilbo Shaggins " <bilboshaggins@h...> > > > > > >Actually " Cash " you are full of bullshit and don't know what you're > >talking about!!! My husband is a trained psychologist and he's told me > >that > >patients are at their biggest risk NOT when they initially appear for the > >psychology sessions, but when they start to get better (WITHOUT the use of > >medications). This is indeed because they have more energy, yet they are > >still suicidal. And if they start to feel better, but dip back into > >depression, it really squelches their hope of healing. This is basic > >psychology trainging 101. Shutup and stop attacking when you don't know > >the > >truth - Gab is right.>> > > > > > > ** There's no doubt that misunderstood Gab's intention but > >your contention that this is " psychology training 101 " would more > >correctly be called " drug company propaganda 101 " . > >-- > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 If it was written in a psychology textbook it must be true. Not! Full of it - Cash > >Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:03:23 -0400 > > > ><<From: " Bilbo Shaggins " <bilboshaggins@...> > > > > > >Actually " Cash " you are full of bullshit and don't know what you're > >talking about!!! My husband is a trained psychologist and he's told me > >that > >patients are at their biggest risk NOT when they initially appear for the > >psychology sessions, but when they start to get better (WITHOUT the use of > >medications). This is indeed because they have more energy, yet they are > >still suicidal. And if they start to feel better, but dip back into > >depression, it really squelches their hope of healing. This is basic > >psychology trainging 101. Shutup and stop attacking when you don't know > >the > >truth - Gab is right.>> > > > > > > ** There's no doubt that misunderstood Gab's intention but > >your contention that this is " psychology training 101 " would more > >correctly be called " drug company propaganda 101 " . > >-- > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 If it was written in a psychology textbook it must be true. Not! Full of it - Cash > >Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:03:23 -0400 > > > ><<From: " Bilbo Shaggins " <bilboshaggins@...> > > > > > >Actually " Cash " you are full of bullshit and don't know what you're > >talking about!!! My husband is a trained psychologist and he's told me > >that > >patients are at their biggest risk NOT when they initially appear for the > >psychology sessions, but when they start to get better (WITHOUT the use of > >medications). This is indeed because they have more energy, yet they are > >still suicidal. And if they start to feel better, but dip back into > >depression, it really squelches their hope of healing. This is basic > >psychology trainging 101. Shutup and stop attacking when you don't know > >the > >truth - Gab is right.>> > > > > > > ** There's no doubt that misunderstood Gab's intention but > >your contention that this is " psychology training 101 " would more > >correctly be called " drug company propaganda 101 " . > >-- > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Bil, You have been hard for me to take and I assume from other responses to you, you have been hard for others on the list to take. I suppose I've somehow managed to somewhat isolate myself from the country at large I don't always realize that everyone hasn't progressed along with us. I won't accuse you of lying because I think you really believe what you are saying and think you have proof. What you don't understand is you have been lied to and your husband has been lied to. What he learned in Psychology 101 was lies propogated by drug companies. They were around way before the 70's and had in fact already begun their propaganda at that time. It has just become more widely known recently. I'm sure you think you know what you are talking about. But it would help if you would try to look at things from the other side, the side of the patients. There are doctors who claim that lobotomies have helped some patients. Do you think the patients who had lobotomies agree with this? Doctors and psychologist are claiming that SSRI's are helping people, but the patients taking them are saying otherwise. Who do you believe in this situation? I just don't see how anyone who has never taken these drugs can consider themself any kind of expert. Just what experience is there to justify calling oneself an expert? My psychiatrist and counselors used to dig deep trying to get me to say I was getting better while on their poison. They ask me if I was able to do anything this week that I hadn't last. If I could say " Well, I did manage to bathe myself this week " their response was " See you are better " and I'm sure that it went in my medical record that I was improving under their care when in fact I was doing nothing of the kind. I'm not saying you are lying but have instead been lied to just as all of us have. The difference is, we now know it and you still can't admit it. When I first came out of my zombied state after having been on psych meds for 6 years, I told my husband that the doctors couldn't possibly know what they were doing to people. That I had to believe that because the alternative was that they did know and I wasn't ready to accept that. I now know I was maybe half right. But someone knew whether it was the people making the drugs or the ones handing them out. And that's the part I can't abide. People commit suicide when they start to get better? What constitutes better? Whose idea of better? What is better? Maybe they are actually getting worse but they managed to take a bath first. Does that mean they are better? I don't think so. Just maybe, after starting treatment, things seemed MORE hopeless. This idea that someone didn't have the energy to commit suicide is perhaps the most ridiculous idea we've bought in a long time. I've been there. And believe me, I never once thought " I would kill myself today but I'm just too tired, I think I'll wait until I have more energy " . Get your nose out of the textbooks, Bil, and start listening to the ones who have been in the trenches. > > Why do you guys accuse me of propaganda?!?! This is in psychology text > books 101 and does not have anything to do with medications! It is a fact - > when people start to get better in therapy, they are at high risk of killing > themselves, it's a strange but true phenomenon. Please ask a therapist you > can trust if you don't believe me. My husband was learning this back in the > early 70's, BEFORE antidepressants. Please stop saying I'm a liar because > I'm not. > > > > >From: Creel <catherine.creel@g...> > >Reply-SSRI medications > >SSRI medications > >Subject: Full of it - Cash > >Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:03:23 -0400 > > > ><<From: " Bilbo Shaggins " <bilboshaggins@h...> > > > > > >Actually " Cash " you are full of bullshit and don't know what you're > >talking about!!! My husband is a trained psychologist and he's told me > >that > >patients are at their biggest risk NOT when they initially appear for the > >psychology sessions, but when they start to get better (WITHOUT the use of > >medications). This is indeed because they have more energy, yet they are > >still suicidal. And if they start to feel better, but dip back into > >depression, it really squelches their hope of healing. This is basic > >psychology trainging 101. Shutup and stop attacking when you don't know > >the > >truth - Gab is right.>> > > > > > > ** There's no doubt that misunderstood Gab's intention but > >your contention that this is " psychology training 101 " would more > >correctly be called " drug company propaganda 101 " . > >-- > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Bil, You have been hard for me to take and I assume from other responses to you, you have been hard for others on the list to take. I suppose I've somehow managed to somewhat isolate myself from the country at large I don't always realize that everyone hasn't progressed along with us. I won't accuse you of lying because I think you really believe what you are saying and think you have proof. What you don't understand is you have been lied to and your husband has been lied to. What he learned in Psychology 101 was lies propogated by drug companies. They were around way before the 70's and had in fact already begun their propaganda at that time. It has just become more widely known recently. I'm sure you think you know what you are talking about. But it would help if you would try to look at things from the other side, the side of the patients. There are doctors who claim that lobotomies have helped some patients. Do you think the patients who had lobotomies agree with this? Doctors and psychologist are claiming that SSRI's are helping people, but the patients taking them are saying otherwise. Who do you believe in this situation? I just don't see how anyone who has never taken these drugs can consider themself any kind of expert. Just what experience is there to justify calling oneself an expert? My psychiatrist and counselors used to dig deep trying to get me to say I was getting better while on their poison. They ask me if I was able to do anything this week that I hadn't last. If I could say " Well, I did manage to bathe myself this week " their response was " See you are better " and I'm sure that it went in my medical record that I was improving under their care when in fact I was doing nothing of the kind. I'm not saying you are lying but have instead been lied to just as all of us have. The difference is, we now know it and you still can't admit it. When I first came out of my zombied state after having been on psych meds for 6 years, I told my husband that the doctors couldn't possibly know what they were doing to people. That I had to believe that because the alternative was that they did know and I wasn't ready to accept that. I now know I was maybe half right. But someone knew whether it was the people making the drugs or the ones handing them out. And that's the part I can't abide. People commit suicide when they start to get better? What constitutes better? Whose idea of better? What is better? Maybe they are actually getting worse but they managed to take a bath first. Does that mean they are better? I don't think so. Just maybe, after starting treatment, things seemed MORE hopeless. This idea that someone didn't have the energy to commit suicide is perhaps the most ridiculous idea we've bought in a long time. I've been there. And believe me, I never once thought " I would kill myself today but I'm just too tired, I think I'll wait until I have more energy " . Get your nose out of the textbooks, Bil, and start listening to the ones who have been in the trenches. > > Why do you guys accuse me of propaganda?!?! This is in psychology text > books 101 and does not have anything to do with medications! It is a fact - > when people start to get better in therapy, they are at high risk of killing > themselves, it's a strange but true phenomenon. Please ask a therapist you > can trust if you don't believe me. My husband was learning this back in the > early 70's, BEFORE antidepressants. Please stop saying I'm a liar because > I'm not. > > > > >From: Creel <catherine.creel@g...> > >Reply-SSRI medications > >SSRI medications > >Subject: Full of it - Cash > >Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:03:23 -0400 > > > ><<From: " Bilbo Shaggins " <bilboshaggins@h...> > > > > > >Actually " Cash " you are full of bullshit and don't know what you're > >talking about!!! My husband is a trained psychologist and he's told me > >that > >patients are at their biggest risk NOT when they initially appear for the > >psychology sessions, but when they start to get better (WITHOUT the use of > >medications). This is indeed because they have more energy, yet they are > >still suicidal. And if they start to feel better, but dip back into > >depression, it really squelches their hope of healing. This is basic > >psychology trainging 101. Shutup and stop attacking when you don't know > >the > >truth - Gab is right.>> > > > > > > ** There's no doubt that misunderstood Gab's intention but > >your contention that this is " psychology training 101 " would more > >correctly be called " drug company propaganda 101 " . > >-- > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Bil, You have been hard for me to take and I assume from other responses to you, you have been hard for others on the list to take. I suppose I've somehow managed to somewhat isolate myself from the country at large I don't always realize that everyone hasn't progressed along with us. I won't accuse you of lying because I think you really believe what you are saying and think you have proof. What you don't understand is you have been lied to and your husband has been lied to. What he learned in Psychology 101 was lies propogated by drug companies. They were around way before the 70's and had in fact already begun their propaganda at that time. It has just become more widely known recently. I'm sure you think you know what you are talking about. But it would help if you would try to look at things from the other side, the side of the patients. There are doctors who claim that lobotomies have helped some patients. Do you think the patients who had lobotomies agree with this? Doctors and psychologist are claiming that SSRI's are helping people, but the patients taking them are saying otherwise. Who do you believe in this situation? I just don't see how anyone who has never taken these drugs can consider themself any kind of expert. Just what experience is there to justify calling oneself an expert? My psychiatrist and counselors used to dig deep trying to get me to say I was getting better while on their poison. They ask me if I was able to do anything this week that I hadn't last. If I could say " Well, I did manage to bathe myself this week " their response was " See you are better " and I'm sure that it went in my medical record that I was improving under their care when in fact I was doing nothing of the kind. I'm not saying you are lying but have instead been lied to just as all of us have. The difference is, we now know it and you still can't admit it. When I first came out of my zombied state after having been on psych meds for 6 years, I told my husband that the doctors couldn't possibly know what they were doing to people. That I had to believe that because the alternative was that they did know and I wasn't ready to accept that. I now know I was maybe half right. But someone knew whether it was the people making the drugs or the ones handing them out. And that's the part I can't abide. People commit suicide when they start to get better? What constitutes better? Whose idea of better? What is better? Maybe they are actually getting worse but they managed to take a bath first. Does that mean they are better? I don't think so. Just maybe, after starting treatment, things seemed MORE hopeless. This idea that someone didn't have the energy to commit suicide is perhaps the most ridiculous idea we've bought in a long time. I've been there. And believe me, I never once thought " I would kill myself today but I'm just too tired, I think I'll wait until I have more energy " . Get your nose out of the textbooks, Bil, and start listening to the ones who have been in the trenches. > > Why do you guys accuse me of propaganda?!?! This is in psychology text > books 101 and does not have anything to do with medications! It is a fact - > when people start to get better in therapy, they are at high risk of killing > themselves, it's a strange but true phenomenon. Please ask a therapist you > can trust if you don't believe me. My husband was learning this back in the > early 70's, BEFORE antidepressants. Please stop saying I'm a liar because > I'm not. > > > > >From: Creel <catherine.creel@g...> > >Reply-SSRI medications > >SSRI medications > >Subject: Full of it - Cash > >Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:03:23 -0400 > > > ><<From: " Bilbo Shaggins " <bilboshaggins@h...> > > > > > >Actually " Cash " you are full of bullshit and don't know what you're > >talking about!!! My husband is a trained psychologist and he's told me > >that > >patients are at their biggest risk NOT when they initially appear for the > >psychology sessions, but when they start to get better (WITHOUT the use of > >medications). This is indeed because they have more energy, yet they are > >still suicidal. And if they start to feel better, but dip back into > >depression, it really squelches their hope of healing. This is basic > >psychology trainging 101. Shutup and stop attacking when you don't know > >the > >truth - Gab is right.>> > > > > > > ** There's no doubt that misunderstood Gab's intention but > >your contention that this is " psychology training 101 " would more > >correctly be called " drug company propaganda 101 " . > >-- > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Bil, You have been hard for me to take and I assume from other responses to you, you have been hard for others on the list to take. I suppose I've somehow managed to somewhat isolate myself from the country at large I don't always realize that everyone hasn't progressed along with us. I won't accuse you of lying because I think you really believe what you are saying and think you have proof. What you don't understand is you have been lied to and your husband has been lied to. What he learned in Psychology 101 was lies propogated by drug companies. They were around way before the 70's and had in fact already begun their propaganda at that time. It has just become more widely known recently. I'm sure you think you know what you are talking about. But it would help if you would try to look at things from the other side, the side of the patients. There are doctors who claim that lobotomies have helped some patients. Do you think the patients who had lobotomies agree with this? Doctors and psychologist are claiming that SSRI's are helping people, but the patients taking them are saying otherwise. Who do you believe in this situation? I just don't see how anyone who has never taken these drugs can consider themself any kind of expert. Just what experience is there to justify calling oneself an expert? My psychiatrist and counselors used to dig deep trying to get me to say I was getting better while on their poison. They ask me if I was able to do anything this week that I hadn't last. If I could say " Well, I did manage to bathe myself this week " their response was " See you are better " and I'm sure that it went in my medical record that I was improving under their care when in fact I was doing nothing of the kind. I'm not saying you are lying but have instead been lied to just as all of us have. The difference is, we now know it and you still can't admit it. When I first came out of my zombied state after having been on psych meds for 6 years, I told my husband that the doctors couldn't possibly know what they were doing to people. That I had to believe that because the alternative was that they did know and I wasn't ready to accept that. I now know I was maybe half right. But someone knew whether it was the people making the drugs or the ones handing them out. And that's the part I can't abide. People commit suicide when they start to get better? What constitutes better? Whose idea of better? What is better? Maybe they are actually getting worse but they managed to take a bath first. Does that mean they are better? I don't think so. Just maybe, after starting treatment, things seemed MORE hopeless. This idea that someone didn't have the energy to commit suicide is perhaps the most ridiculous idea we've bought in a long time. I've been there. And believe me, I never once thought " I would kill myself today but I'm just too tired, I think I'll wait until I have more energy " . Get your nose out of the textbooks, Bil, and start listening to the ones who have been in the trenches. > > Why do you guys accuse me of propaganda?!?! This is in psychology text > books 101 and does not have anything to do with medications! It is a fact - > when people start to get better in therapy, they are at high risk of killing > themselves, it's a strange but true phenomenon. Please ask a therapist you > can trust if you don't believe me. My husband was learning this back in the > early 70's, BEFORE antidepressants. Please stop saying I'm a liar because > I'm not. > > > > >From: Creel <catherine.creel@g...> > >Reply-SSRI medications > >SSRI medications > >Subject: Full of it - Cash > >Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:03:23 -0400 > > > ><<From: " Bilbo Shaggins " <bilboshaggins@h...> > > > > > >Actually " Cash " you are full of bullshit and don't know what you're > >talking about!!! My husband is a trained psychologist and he's told me > >that > >patients are at their biggest risk NOT when they initially appear for the > >psychology sessions, but when they start to get better (WITHOUT the use of > >medications). This is indeed because they have more energy, yet they are > >still suicidal. And if they start to feel better, but dip back into > >depression, it really squelches their hope of healing. This is basic > >psychology trainging 101. Shutup and stop attacking when you don't know > >the > >truth - Gab is right.>> > > > > > > ** There's no doubt that misunderstood Gab's intention but > >your contention that this is " psychology training 101 " would more > >correctly be called " drug company propaganda 101 " . > >-- > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 In all fairness, the 1970's were before SSRI antidepressants, not before any antidepressants. SSRIs replaced tricyclics and other types in popularity because it is much harder to commit suicide with SSRIs than with tricyclics. However, as I said, IIRC, this was first noted before any antidepressants. > > Why do you guys accuse me of propaganda?!?! This is in psychology text > books 101 and does not have anything to do with medications! It is a fact - > when people start to get better in therapy, they are at high risk of killing > themselves, it's a strange but true phenomenon. Please ask a therapist you > can trust if you don't believe me. My husband was learning this back in the > early 70's, BEFORE antidepressants. Please stop saying I'm a liar because > I'm not. > > > > >From: Creel <catherine.creel@g...> > >Reply-SSRI medications > >SSRI medications > >Subject: Full of it - Cash > >Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:03:23 -0400 > > > ><<From: " Bilbo Shaggins " <bilboshaggins@h...> > > > > > >Actually " Cash " you are full of bullshit and don't know what you're > >talking about!!! My husband is a trained psychologist and he's told me > >that > >patients are at their biggest risk NOT when they initially appear for the > >psychology sessions, but when they start to get better (WITHOUT the use of > >medications). This is indeed because they have more energy, yet they are > >still suicidal. And if they start to feel better, but dip back into > >depression, it really squelches their hope of healing. This is basic > >psychology trainging 101. Shutup and stop attacking when you don't know > >the > >truth - Gab is right.>> > > > > > > ** There's no doubt that misunderstood Gab's intention but > >your contention that this is " psychology training 101 " would more > >correctly be called " drug company propaganda 101 " . > >-- > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 In all fairness, the 1970's were before SSRI antidepressants, not before any antidepressants. SSRIs replaced tricyclics and other types in popularity because it is much harder to commit suicide with SSRIs than with tricyclics. However, as I said, IIRC, this was first noted before any antidepressants. > > Why do you guys accuse me of propaganda?!?! This is in psychology text > books 101 and does not have anything to do with medications! It is a fact - > when people start to get better in therapy, they are at high risk of killing > themselves, it's a strange but true phenomenon. Please ask a therapist you > can trust if you don't believe me. My husband was learning this back in the > early 70's, BEFORE antidepressants. Please stop saying I'm a liar because > I'm not. > > > > >From: Creel <catherine.creel@g...> > >Reply-SSRI medications > >SSRI medications > >Subject: Full of it - Cash > >Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:03:23 -0400 > > > ><<From: " Bilbo Shaggins " <bilboshaggins@h...> > > > > > >Actually " Cash " you are full of bullshit and don't know what you're > >talking about!!! My husband is a trained psychologist and he's told me > >that > >patients are at their biggest risk NOT when they initially appear for the > >psychology sessions, but when they start to get better (WITHOUT the use of > >medications). This is indeed because they have more energy, yet they are > >still suicidal. And if they start to feel better, but dip back into > >depression, it really squelches their hope of healing. This is basic > >psychology trainging 101. Shutup and stop attacking when you don't know > >the > >truth - Gab is right.>> > > > > > > ** There's no doubt that misunderstood Gab's intention but > >your contention that this is " psychology training 101 " would more > >correctly be called " drug company propaganda 101 " . > >-- > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 In all fairness, the 1970's were before SSRI antidepressants, not before any antidepressants. SSRIs replaced tricyclics and other types in popularity because it is much harder to commit suicide with SSRIs than with tricyclics. However, as I said, IIRC, this was first noted before any antidepressants. > > Why do you guys accuse me of propaganda?!?! This is in psychology text > books 101 and does not have anything to do with medications! It is a fact - > when people start to get better in therapy, they are at high risk of killing > themselves, it's a strange but true phenomenon. Please ask a therapist you > can trust if you don't believe me. My husband was learning this back in the > early 70's, BEFORE antidepressants. Please stop saying I'm a liar because > I'm not. > > > > >From: Creel <catherine.creel@g...> > >Reply-SSRI medications > >SSRI medications > >Subject: Full of it - Cash > >Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:03:23 -0400 > > > ><<From: " Bilbo Shaggins " <bilboshaggins@h...> > > > > > >Actually " Cash " you are full of bullshit and don't know what you're > >talking about!!! My husband is a trained psychologist and he's told me > >that > >patients are at their biggest risk NOT when they initially appear for the > >psychology sessions, but when they start to get better (WITHOUT the use of > >medications). This is indeed because they have more energy, yet they are > >still suicidal. And if they start to feel better, but dip back into > >depression, it really squelches their hope of healing. This is basic > >psychology trainging 101. Shutup and stop attacking when you don't know > >the > >truth - Gab is right.>> > > > > > > ** There's no doubt that misunderstood Gab's intention but > >your contention that this is " psychology training 101 " would more > >correctly be called " drug company propaganda 101 " . > >-- > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 In all fairness, the 1970's were before SSRI antidepressants, not before any antidepressants. SSRIs replaced tricyclics and other types in popularity because it is much harder to commit suicide with SSRIs than with tricyclics. However, as I said, IIRC, this was first noted before any antidepressants. > > Why do you guys accuse me of propaganda?!?! This is in psychology text > books 101 and does not have anything to do with medications! It is a fact - > when people start to get better in therapy, they are at high risk of killing > themselves, it's a strange but true phenomenon. Please ask a therapist you > can trust if you don't believe me. My husband was learning this back in the > early 70's, BEFORE antidepressants. Please stop saying I'm a liar because > I'm not. > > > > >From: Creel <catherine.creel@g...> > >Reply-SSRI medications > >SSRI medications > >Subject: Full of it - Cash > >Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:03:23 -0400 > > > ><<From: " Bilbo Shaggins " <bilboshaggins@h...> > > > > > >Actually " Cash " you are full of bullshit and don't know what you're > >talking about!!! My husband is a trained psychologist and he's told me > >that > >patients are at their biggest risk NOT when they initially appear for the > >psychology sessions, but when they start to get better (WITHOUT the use of > >medications). This is indeed because they have more energy, yet they are > >still suicidal. And if they start to feel better, but dip back into > >depression, it really squelches their hope of healing. This is basic > >psychology trainging 101. Shutup and stop attacking when you don't know > >the > >truth - Gab is right.>> > > > > > > ** There's no doubt that misunderstood Gab's intention but > >your contention that this is " psychology training 101 " would more > >correctly be called " drug company propaganda 101 " . > >-- > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 What is considered the first research on suicide was done as a sociological study by Emil Durkheim in 1897. > > If it was written in a psychology textbook it must be true. > > Not! > > > Full of it - Cash > > >Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:03:23 -0400 > > > > > ><<From: " Bilbo Shaggins " <bilboshaggins@h...> > > > > > > > > >Actually " Cash " you are full of bullshit and don't know what you're > > >talking about!!! My husband is a trained psychologist and he's told me > > >that > > >patients are at their biggest risk NOT when they initially appear for the > > >psychology sessions, but when they start to get better (WITHOUT the use > of > > >medications). This is indeed because they have more energy, yet they are > > >still suicidal. And if they start to feel better, but dip back into > > >depression, it really squelches their hope of healing. This is basic > > >psychology trainging 101. Shutup and stop attacking when you don't know > > >the > > >truth - Gab is right.>> > > > > > > > > > ** There's no doubt that misunderstood Gab's intention but > > >your contention that this is " psychology training 101 " would more > > >correctly be called " drug company propaganda 101 " . > > >-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 What is considered the first research on suicide was done as a sociological study by Emil Durkheim in 1897. > > If it was written in a psychology textbook it must be true. > > Not! > > > Full of it - Cash > > >Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:03:23 -0400 > > > > > ><<From: " Bilbo Shaggins " <bilboshaggins@h...> > > > > > > > > >Actually " Cash " you are full of bullshit and don't know what you're > > >talking about!!! My husband is a trained psychologist and he's told me > > >that > > >patients are at their biggest risk NOT when they initially appear for the > > >psychology sessions, but when they start to get better (WITHOUT the use > of > > >medications). This is indeed because they have more energy, yet they are > > >still suicidal. And if they start to feel better, but dip back into > > >depression, it really squelches their hope of healing. This is basic > > >psychology trainging 101. Shutup and stop attacking when you don't know > > >the > > >truth - Gab is right.>> > > > > > > > > > ** There's no doubt that misunderstood Gab's intention but > > >your contention that this is " psychology training 101 " would more > > >correctly be called " drug company propaganda 101 " . > > >-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 It was taught to psychologist because they were warned that this was a possibility and that they needed to be more dilegent with patients who seemed to be getting better. > > > Absolutely ... the tricyclics, and I'd like to see some actual links to sources, e.g. journal articles and studies that substantiate the claim that when a patient is getting better in therapy there is a heightened risk of suicide. It sounds like circular thinking to me that absolves the therapist from any responsibility if anything should go wrong, and hardly reassuring for the patient or his/her family! > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 It was taught to psychologist because they were warned that this was a possibility and that they needed to be more dilegent with patients who seemed to be getting better. > > > Absolutely ... the tricyclics, and I'd like to see some actual links to sources, e.g. journal articles and studies that substantiate the claim that when a patient is getting better in therapy there is a heightened risk of suicide. It sounds like circular thinking to me that absolves the therapist from any responsibility if anything should go wrong, and hardly reassuring for the patient or his/her family! > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 That is a misrepresentation of what is and for a very long time has been said. What is said is that there is an increased risk for suicide when the patient begins to get better. Why has never been understood. That doesn't change the fact that SSRIs cause an increase in suicidality. -- In SSRI medications , " Ken Kramer " <datasearch@e...> wrote: > > " It is a fact - when people start to get better in therapy, they are at high > risk of killing themselves " > > That is hilarious and enjoyable entertainment. > > Psychiatrists also say that 90% of all suicides have a diagnosable mental > illness. What they fail to tell you is that most of them have already been > diagnosed and treated! > > Run for the hills psychiatric patients, because the psychs are saying if you > start to improve you're going to kill yourself. > > > > > > > Full of it - Cash > > > >Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:03:23 -0400 > > > > > > > ><<From: " Bilbo Shaggins " <bilboshaggins@h...> > > > > > > > > > > > >Actually " Cash " you are full of bullshit and don't know what > > you're > > > >talking about!!! My husband is a trained psychologist and he's > > told me > > > >that > > > >patients are at their biggest risk NOT when they initially appear > > for the > > > >psychology sessions, but when they start to get better (WITHOUT > > the use of > > > >medications). This is indeed because they have more energy, yet > > they are > > > >still suicidal. And if they start to feel better, but dip back > > into > > > >depression, it really squelches their hope of healing. This is > > basic > > > >psychology trainging 101. Shutup and stop attacking when you > > don't know > > > >the > > > >truth - Gab is right.>> > > > > > > > > > > > > ** There's no doubt that misunderstood Gab's intention > > but > > > >your contention that this is " psychology training 101 " would more > > > >correctly be called " drug company propaganda 101 " . > > > >-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 That is a misrepresentation of what is and for a very long time has been said. What is said is that there is an increased risk for suicide when the patient begins to get better. Why has never been understood. That doesn't change the fact that SSRIs cause an increase in suicidality. -- In SSRI medications , " Ken Kramer " <datasearch@e...> wrote: > > " It is a fact - when people start to get better in therapy, they are at high > risk of killing themselves " > > That is hilarious and enjoyable entertainment. > > Psychiatrists also say that 90% of all suicides have a diagnosable mental > illness. What they fail to tell you is that most of them have already been > diagnosed and treated! > > Run for the hills psychiatric patients, because the psychs are saying if you > start to improve you're going to kill yourself. > > > > > > > Full of it - Cash > > > >Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:03:23 -0400 > > > > > > > ><<From: " Bilbo Shaggins " <bilboshaggins@h...> > > > > > > > > > > > >Actually " Cash " you are full of bullshit and don't know what > > you're > > > >talking about!!! My husband is a trained psychologist and he's > > told me > > > >that > > > >patients are at their biggest risk NOT when they initially appear > > for the > > > >psychology sessions, but when they start to get better (WITHOUT > > the use of > > > >medications). This is indeed because they have more energy, yet > > they are > > > >still suicidal. And if they start to feel better, but dip back > > into > > > >depression, it really squelches their hope of healing. This is > > basic > > > >psychology trainging 101. Shutup and stop attacking when you > > don't know > > > >the > > > >truth - Gab is right.>> > > > > > > > > > > > > ** There's no doubt that misunderstood Gab's intention > > but > > > >your contention that this is " psychology training 101 " would more > > > >correctly be called " drug company propaganda 101 " . > > > >-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 I suspect that it being a sociological study rather than a psychological study, Durkheim's work isn't what you are expecting it to be. Here's a summary of what his study said (though I didn't see anything in there about the increase risk when starting to get better) http://www.relst.uiuc.edu/durkheim/Summaries/suicide.html > > > How dilligent are they being, though? Whatever the original rationale, it seems to be more of a way to shift blame back to the patient, sort of a heads-I-win, tails-you-lose scenario.o. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 I suspect that it being a sociological study rather than a psychological study, Durkheim's work isn't what you are expecting it to be. Here's a summary of what his study said (though I didn't see anything in there about the increase risk when starting to get better) http://www.relst.uiuc.edu/durkheim/Summaries/suicide.html > > > How dilligent are they being, though? Whatever the original rationale, it seems to be more of a way to shift blame back to the patient, sort of a heads-I-win, tails-you-lose scenario.o. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 That's okay, . I can understand how I can be missunderstood based on some of the terminology I use, which I learned in school. I'm just trying to do things the right way, but I have a lot to learn. I'm an easy going person and don't hold grudges. Gab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.