Re: re being incarcerated against one's will for physical illness or trauma

[Guest guest]

Gertie,

It can happen anywhere and does all the time. Pennsylvania and New York are

completely covered up with psychiatry and pulling people in off the streets

and

electroshocking them is common in New York City for most upsets. The

industry

really is that bad, I know it's hard to believe but it's true. State psych

wards take

any old nut job but the private hospitals work very hard to have patients.

Kickbacks were paid to school psychologists in the early 90's by psych

hospitals, patients were

kids and they were treated exactly as long as the insurance was there. There

was a

big scandal in Texas over that. The psychologists from the schools could

look through

the kids records and spot the juicy insurance, then refer them for

" treatment " at the local

loony bin, they were getting around 3000 bucks a head.

Then there were the satanic psych cases where the psych's told their easily

tricked

patients that they were victims of satanic rituals when children and to

disconnect from family

and give all their money to the psychs etc etc. also early 90's. I could go

on all day but you get the idea.

It's almost to much to believe and most people don't. Glitter got off easy.

It's not all so outragous

as these stories, it's more like the slow death of drugs leaking out your

life that you talked about

before, the death of the soul as it were. But it is a nasty system of

abusive treatments consisting of

restraints, locked doors, mind and body destroying drugs and finally if you

don't comply with treatment

you can get electroshocked and it's all based on someones opinion. It's much

worse northeast USA.

You and most people on this list have the guts to look at it, it isn't

pretty.

Best,

Jim

I cannot get my mind around the stories about people being forcibly stuck in

the mental ward, when they need medical care. It just doesn't compute,

outside the concept of evil. Glitter, how could a professional make the

statement to you that you are not really in pain? How the bleep would she

know if you were or were not in pain, and what in blue blazes would you, or

anybody, want with an operation on your shoulder, if you were not injured

and in pain? Who but a mental case could posit someone faking pain to get

an operation? SHE sounds dangerous. I have never heard of an undrugged

person out seeking recreational surgery! She would be in my rear-view

mirror so fast!!! It's hard to believe, in the absence of you being a

threat to public safety, that they could do this to you. I don't think they

could in Pennsylvania. Bravo for the husband with the Italian passport.

Deus ex machina, writ large. gertie

[Guest guest]

Jim, You surely know more than I do about this, so if you say it's rampant

in Pennsylvania, it must be. I do know some people in New Freedom, PA,

whose little boy was being doped by doctors at s Hopkins. The insurance

ran out, they dumped the family, and the little boy -- only six -- hung

himself. I thought when I heard it, that was an isolated case, horrible as

it was.

It occurs to me that in Glitter's case, when she was behaving rationally,

she was doped into oblivion, and the only thing that could save her, was her

husband deliberately behaving as if he were bonkers. That's something to

think about.

I am not quite sure I understand the source of the payments you mention, is

it the hospitals actually giving a school psychologist money for each kid he

delivers, kind of like a bounty, under the table, or is it a contractual

thing, institution to institution, or what? Few years back, here in

town, a newspaper columnist named Carpenter (The town Morning

Call) blew the whistle on a scheme that would have allowed schools, i.e. the

principal and /or the guidance department employees, to have a student put

into a mental hospital without notifying or getting permission from the

parents of the child in question. After his column hit the public notice,

the bill in the legislature quietly died away. That's why I thought maybe

Pennsylvania was better than other places. I guess they don't give up,

maybe that same provision snuck back in through another bill in the PA

legislature since then. gertie

Re: re being incarcerated against one's will for

physical illness or trauma

>

> Gertie,

>

> It can happen anywhere and does all the time. Pennsylvania and New York

are

> completely covered up with psychiatry and pulling people in off the

streets

> and

> electroshocking them is common in New York City for most upsets. The

> industry

> really is that bad, I know it's hard to believe but it's true. State psych

> wards take

> any old nut job but the private hospitals work very hard to have patients.

>

> Kickbacks were paid to school psychologists in the early 90's by psych

> hospitals, patients were

> kids and they were treated exactly as long as the insurance was there.

There

> was a

> big scandal in Texas over that. The psychologists from the schools could

> look through

> the kids records and spot the juicy insurance, then refer them for

> " treatment " at the local

> loony bin, they were getting around 3000 bucks a head.

>

> Then there were the satanic psych cases where the psych's told their

easily

> tricked

> patients that they were victims of satanic rituals when children and to

> disconnect from family

> and give all their money to the psychs etc etc. also early 90's. I could

go

> on all day but you get the idea.

>

> It's almost to much to believe and most people don't. Glitter got off

easy.

> It's not all so outragous

> as these stories, it's more like the slow death of drugs leaking out your

> life that you talked about

> before, the death of the soul as it were. But it is a nasty system of

> abusive treatments consisting of

> restraints, locked doors, mind and body destroying drugs and finally if

you

> don't comply with treatment

> you can get electroshocked and it's all based on someones opinion. It's

much

> worse northeast USA.

> You and most people on this list have the guts to look at it, it isn't

> pretty.

>

> Best,

>

> Jim

>

>

>

> I cannot get my mind around the stories about people being forcibly stuck

in

> the mental ward, when they need medical care. It just doesn't compute,

> outside the concept of evil. Glitter, how could a professional make the

> statement to you that you are not really in pain? How the bleep would she

> know if you were or were not in pain, and what in blue blazes would you,

or

> anybody, want with an operation on your shoulder, if you were not injured

> and in pain? Who but a mental case could posit someone faking pain to get

> an operation? SHE sounds dangerous. I have never heard of an undrugged

> person out seeking recreational surgery! She would be in my rear-view

> mirror so fast!!! It's hard to believe, in the absence of you being a

> threat to public safety, that they could do this to you. I don't think

they

> could in Pennsylvania. Bravo for the husband with the Italian passport.

> Deus ex machina, writ large. gertie

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jim, You surely know more than I do about this, so if you say it's rampant

in Pennsylvania, it must be. I do know some people in New Freedom, PA,

whose little boy was being doped by doctors at s Hopkins. The insurance

ran out, they dumped the family, and the little boy -- only six -- hung

himself. I thought when I heard it, that was an isolated case, horrible as

it was.

It occurs to me that in Glitter's case, when she was behaving rationally,

she was doped into oblivion, and the only thing that could save her, was her

husband deliberately behaving as if he were bonkers. That's something to

think about.

I am not quite sure I understand the source of the payments you mention, is

it the hospitals actually giving a school psychologist money for each kid he

delivers, kind of like a bounty, under the table, or is it a contractual

thing, institution to institution, or what? Few years back, here in

town, a newspaper columnist named Carpenter (The town Morning

Call) blew the whistle on a scheme that would have allowed schools, i.e. the

principal and /or the guidance department employees, to have a student put

into a mental hospital without notifying or getting permission from the

parents of the child in question. After his column hit the public notice,

the bill in the legislature quietly died away. That's why I thought maybe

Pennsylvania was better than other places. I guess they don't give up,

maybe that same provision snuck back in through another bill in the PA

legislature since then. gertie

Re: re being incarcerated against one's will for

physical illness or trauma

>

> Gertie,

>

> It can happen anywhere and does all the time. Pennsylvania and New York

are

> completely covered up with psychiatry and pulling people in off the

streets

> and

> electroshocking them is common in New York City for most upsets. The

> industry

> really is that bad, I know it's hard to believe but it's true. State psych

> wards take

> any old nut job but the private hospitals work very hard to have patients.

>

> Kickbacks were paid to school psychologists in the early 90's by psych

> hospitals, patients were

> kids and they were treated exactly as long as the insurance was there.

There

> was a

> big scandal in Texas over that. The psychologists from the schools could

> look through

> the kids records and spot the juicy insurance, then refer them for

> " treatment " at the local

> loony bin, they were getting around 3000 bucks a head.

>

> Then there were the satanic psych cases where the psych's told their

easily

> tricked

> patients that they were victims of satanic rituals when children and to

> disconnect from family

> and give all their money to the psychs etc etc. also early 90's. I could

go

> on all day but you get the idea.

>

> It's almost to much to believe and most people don't. Glitter got off

easy.

> It's not all so outragous

> as these stories, it's more like the slow death of drugs leaking out your

> life that you talked about

> before, the death of the soul as it were. But it is a nasty system of

> abusive treatments consisting of

> restraints, locked doors, mind and body destroying drugs and finally if

you

> don't comply with treatment

> you can get electroshocked and it's all based on someones opinion. It's

much

> worse northeast USA.

> You and most people on this list have the guts to look at it, it isn't

> pretty.

>

> Best,

>

> Jim

>

>

>

> I cannot get my mind around the stories about people being forcibly stuck

in

> the mental ward, when they need medical care. It just doesn't compute,

> outside the concept of evil. Glitter, how could a professional make the

> statement to you that you are not really in pain? How the bleep would she

> know if you were or were not in pain, and what in blue blazes would you,

or

> anybody, want with an operation on your shoulder, if you were not injured

> and in pain? Who but a mental case could posit someone faking pain to get

> an operation? SHE sounds dangerous. I have never heard of an undrugged

> person out seeking recreational surgery! She would be in my rear-view

> mirror so fast!!! It's hard to believe, in the absence of you being a

> threat to public safety, that they could do this to you. I don't think

they

> could in Pennsylvania. Bravo for the husband with the Italian passport.

> Deus ex machina, writ large. gertie

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just had a conversation about this with a friend. At one point, he

packed his kid up and took him to Philly somewhere to be " evaluated "

by some " experts " at a hospital. Turns out, they recommended

immediate placement in the hospital which lasted, coincidently, just

as long as their insurance paid. The child learned some anger

management techniques and acquired a whole new set of friends, most of

whom were in the hospital because of drug and alcohol use which had

not been a problem for my friends son. So in exchange for the anger

management, my friend got back a son who shortly got arrested for

drugging with his new friends.

This pretty much mirrors what another friend had gone through a decade

or so earlier in Alaska. Son was using drugs, they took him for

" evaluation " at a nearby hospital which recommended immediate

placement. (surprise, surprise) Treatment amazingly took just as long

as insurance lasted. They got back their son little changed. He

eventually stop his drug use on his own and has become quite

successful.

School officials can't get a kid hospitalized. But they can use their

influence and perceived " expertise " (yeah, right) to direct parents

towards certain actions and treatment, including doctors. I've seen

it happen. I would not surprise me to learn that in some cases money

changes hands but I don't know that to be a fact.

> Jim, You surely know more than I do about this, so if you say it's

rampant

> in Pennsylvania, it must be. I do know some people in New Freedom,

PA,

> whose little boy was being doped by doctors at s Hopkins. The

insurance

> ran out, they dumped the family, and the little boy -- only six -

- hung

> himself. I thought when I heard it, that was an isolated case,

horrible as

> it was.

>

> It occurs to me that in Glitter's case, when she was behaving

rationally,

> she was doped into oblivion, and the only thing that could save her,

was her

> husband deliberately behaving as if he were bonkers. That's

something to

> think about.

>

> I am not quite sure I understand the source of the payments you

mention, is

> it the hospitals actually giving a school psychologist money for

each kid he

> delivers, kind of like a bounty, under the table, or is it a

contractual

> thing, institution to institution, or what? Few years back, here in

> town, a newspaper columnist named Carpenter (The town

Morning

> Call) blew the whistle on a scheme that would have allowed schools,

i.e. the

> principal and /or the guidance department employees, to have a

student put

> into a mental hospital without notifying or getting permission from

the

> parents of the child in question. After his column hit the public

notice,

> the bill in the legislature quietly died away. That's why I thought

maybe

> Pennsylvania was better than other places. I guess they don't give

up,

> maybe that same provision snuck back in through another bill in the

PA

> legislature since then. gertie

>

>

> Re: re being incarcerated against one's

will for

> physical illness or trauma

>

>

> >

> > Gertie,

> >

> > It can happen anywhere and does all the time. Pennsylvania and New

York

> are

> > completely covered up with psychiatry and pulling people in off

the

> streets

> > and

> > electroshocking them is common in New York City for most upsets.

The

> > industry

> > really is that bad, I know it's hard to believe but it's true.

State psych

> > wards take

> > any old nut job but the private hospitals work very hard to have

patients.

> >

> > Kickbacks were paid to school psychologists in the early 90's by

psych

> > hospitals, patients were

> > kids and they were treated exactly as long as the insurance was

there.

> There

> > was a

> > big scandal in Texas over that. The psychologists from the schools

could

> > look through

> > the kids records and spot the juicy insurance, then refer them for

> > " treatment " at the local

> > loony bin, they were getting around 3000 bucks a head.

> >

> > Then there were the satanic psych cases where the psych's told

their

> easily

> > tricked

> > patients that they were victims of satanic rituals when children

and to

> > disconnect from family

> > and give all their money to the psychs etc etc. also early 90's. I

could

> go

> > on all day but you get the idea.

> >

> > It's almost to much to believe and most people don't. Glitter got

off

> easy.

> > It's not all so outragous

> > as these stories, it's more like the slow death of drugs leaking

out your

> > life that you talked about

> > before, the death of the soul as it were. But it is a nasty system

of

> > abusive treatments consisting of

> > restraints, locked doors, mind and body destroying drugs and

finally if

> you

> > don't comply with treatment

> > you can get electroshocked and it's all based on someones opinion.

It's

> much

> > worse northeast USA.

> > You and most people on this list have the guts to look at it, it

isn't

> > pretty.

> >

> > Best,

> >

> > Jim

> >

> >

> >

> > I cannot get my mind around the stories about people being

forcibly stuck

> in

> > the mental ward, when they need medical care. It just doesn't

compute,

> > outside the concept of evil. Glitter, how could a professional

make the

> > statement to you that you are not really in pain? How the bleep

would she

> > know if you were or were not in pain, and what in blue blazes

would you,

> or

> > anybody, want with an operation on your shoulder, if you were not

injured

> > and in pain? Who but a mental case could posit someone faking

pain to get

> > an operation? SHE sounds dangerous. I have never heard of an

undrugged

> > person out seeking recreational surgery! She would be in my rear-

view

> > mirror so fast!!! It's hard to believe, in the absence of you

being a

> > threat to public safety, that they could do this to you. I don't

think

> they

> > could in Pennsylvania. Bravo for the husband with the Italian

passport.

> > Deus ex machina, writ large. gertie

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Gertie,

That story about the boy is so sad. Also very common type of outcome

when psychiatrists get involved. there are good people that are

psychiatrists

but they only have drugs and shock and restraint so even if they are nice

people, the treatments are not and it's a gamble to even mess with them in

my book.

Mostly there are a ton of psychiatrists there with not much oversight.

It's worse in New York.

We had in the early 90's some private hospitals that would get school

psychologists

to find the kids in public school with the juicy insurance and then

recommend those

kids get " treatment " at the private hospital. 3000 bucks a head was being

paid for the

finders fee. the psychologists could look over the records and spot the good

paying insurance

and would then talk the parents into admiting the child, collect the reward

and

think nothing of it.

There are good people everywhere and I'm glad to hear that law was axed. I

watch the press and most of the pro electroshock stuff comes out of the

north

east part of the country and that tells me that there is not many actively

fighting

that kind of promotional baloney. Columbia U produces some of the most

outragous

psychiatric BS on a regular basis, they had to go against the SSRI's because

they

were over a barrel with all the angry families. Still we only got a black

box warning

that is not being put in the inserts of the drugs as of yet when all the

SSRI's should have

been banned.

Also the hospitals up there get away with much and I believe the laws are a

bit looser

for incarcerating people against their will. I'm not sure if the laws are on

the books but

not being followed or there is no one making sure the hospitals follow the

law or if

the laws still need to be changed. But several people I know of where

incarcerated in

psych hospitals against their will just this month in NYC.

Constant vigalence, constantly willing to fight back is the price of

freedom. Since that is

pretty hard to keep up and pretty hard to see if you have never been harmed

it's up to

people like this group to watch out for the rest.

Jim

Jim, You surely know more than I do about this, so if you say it's rampant

in Pennsylvania, it must be. I do know some people in New Freedom, PA,

whose little boy was being doped by doctors at s Hopkins. The insurance

ran out, they dumped the family, and the little boy -- only six -- hung

himself. I thought when I heard it, that was an isolated case, horrible as

it was.

It occurs to me that in Glitter's case, when she was behaving rationally,

she was doped into oblivion, and the only thing that could save her, was her

husband deliberately behaving as if he were bonkers. That's something to

think about.

I am not quite sure I understand the source of the payments you mention, is

it the hospitals actually giving a school psychologist money for each kid he

delivers, kind of like a bounty, under the table, or is it a contractual

thing, institution to institution, or what? Few years back, here in

town, a newspaper columnist named Carpenter (The town Morning

Call) blew the whistle on a scheme that would have allowed schools, i.e. the

principal and /or the guidance department employees, to have a student put

into a mental hospital without notifying or getting permission from the

parents of the child in question. After his column hit the public notice,

the bill in the legislature quietly died away. That's why I thought maybe

Pennsylvania was better than other places. I guess they don't give up,

maybe that same provision snuck back in through another bill in the PA

legislature since then. gertie

Re: re being incarcerated against one's will for

physical illness or trauma

>

> Gertie,

>

> It can happen anywhere and does all the time. Pennsylvania and New York

are

> completely covered up with psychiatry and pulling people in off the

streets

> and

> electroshocking them is common in New York City for most upsets. The

> industry

> really is that bad, I know it's hard to believe but it's true. State psych

> wards take

> any old nut job but the private hospitals work very hard to have patients.

>

> Kickbacks were paid to school psychologists in the early 90's by psych

> hospitals, patients were

> kids and they were treated exactly as long as the insurance was there.

There

> was a

> big scandal in Texas over that. The psychologists from the schools could

> look through

> the kids records and spot the juicy insurance, then refer them for

> " treatment " at the local

> loony bin, they were getting around 3000 bucks a head.

>

> Then there were the satanic psych cases where the psych's told their

easily

> tricked

> patients that they were victims of satanic rituals when children and to

> disconnect from family

> and give all their money to the psychs etc etc. also early 90's. I could

go

> on all day but you get the idea.

>

> It's almost to much to believe and most people don't. Glitter got off

easy.

> It's not all so outragous

> as these stories, it's more like the slow death of drugs leaking out your

> life that you talked about

> before, the death of the soul as it were. But it is a nasty system of

> abusive treatments consisting of

> restraints, locked doors, mind and body destroying drugs and finally if

you

> don't comply with treatment

> you can get electroshocked and it's all based on someones opinion. It's

much

> worse northeast USA.

> You and most people on this list have the guts to look at it, it isn't

> pretty.

>

> Best,

>

> Jim

>

>

>

> I cannot get my mind around the stories about people being forcibly stuck

in

> the mental ward, when they need medical care. It just doesn't compute,

> outside the concept of evil. Glitter, how could a professional make the

> statement to you that you are not really in pain? How the bleep would she

> know if you were or were not in pain, and what in blue blazes would you,

or

> anybody, want with an operation on your shoulder, if you were not injured

> and in pain? Who but a mental case could posit someone faking pain to get

> an operation? SHE sounds dangerous. I have never heard of an undrugged

> person out seeking recreational surgery! She would be in my rear-view

> mirror so fast!!! It's hard to believe, in the absence of you being a

> threat to public safety, that they could do this to you. I don't think

they

> could in Pennsylvania. Bravo for the husband with the Italian passport.

> Deus ex machina, writ large. gertie

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

No one should legally be allowed to detain a mentally ill person

against their will unless they are violent to others and the last

time i checked, attempted suicide was not a crime punishable by

incarceration in a mental institution.