View from Their Top?OT

January 12, 2010

From what I can gather about this post and my own postings in the past, most Dr

are only interested in making money-- health care is big business and one time I

posted telling you all about my own personal health care, the Dr wears a Rolex

and dresses like he models for GQ magazine, he owns the CT scan, the MRI's

the pharmacy, the diagnostic centers even the small cafe inside the 5,000 sq

foot building-- he is only a PA and has 4 Md's working for him, the point is

that he is billing Medicaid,Medicare, Blue Cross, you name it and getting rich!

The health care? is what I refer to as " DRIVE BY health care " -- he comes in,

spends about 5 minutes and that is it-- never comes back.

This is state of the art health care in the USA- and OBAMA thinks he can make

it better?

I won't hold my breath.

Annie

A poet is, after all, to see

________________________________

From: william moss <detalor@...>

neck pain

Sent: Tue, January 12, 2010 2:07:34 AM

Subject: Re: hi all

Hello from New York State - as opposed to Yorkshire, etc.

I saw you message a couple of days ago, but had several other things to get to

first.

Your " story " is so typical of what i have heard and seen in New york, Vermont

and with my cousin in California that all one would need to do would be to

change the " names, dates and places in " filling out a prepared form " describing

the ordeal!

When it comes to backs, every now and the, we are fortunate to find someone who

truly cares and tries and knows enough to do something that stands a chance of

helping, but that is not at all common in my experience, or from what I see and

hear!

I picked up a book called " How Dr.s Think " in a bargain bin. It's written by a

" high powered Doc who is married to one he says is a better Doc that he is and

more intelligent. He was motivated to write it after fighting for 3 years to

find out what was wrong with a hand he, basically, could not use. What he went

through sounded " painfully " similar to what you and I and so many others have to

go through with our backs, necks and the secondary things they cause us! I would

really recommend the book to anyone who may have to deal with docs for more than

a common cold. Thanks to the Internet and the online " stores " it's still

available in good quantities and not that expensive. It specifically addresses,

seemingly. most of the facets of the problem(s) involved in getting help!

If we need help with our backs, necks, feet, hearts, etc, it is up to us to be

aggressive in seeking out anyone who may help and demanding that someone do

something. It is often a full " time and a half " job and one where those of us

who cannot accept the incompetence and uncaring attitude of so many are going to

be in serious trouble. It's pretty sad really - no very sad!

We need a patient advocacy group everywhere!!!!

I won't begin to detail all the factors that contribute to the problems we face

in finding the help we need, but most of it stems from the attitude the " system "

instill in the Docs and the uncaring manner in which so many medical offices are

managed. They seem to see us in the same " light " as many see dogs and cats that

want something (really need to go out, are hungry, etc) and they just try to

make us go away. Oftimes when I am on the phone with someone regarding a product

or " service " that isn't right, I am asked, " Did I try to help you? " Much of the

time it seems there sole purpose during the call is to placate me and geryt me

to say they did try to help. Mae a " service " and it's likely happended to us!!!

If we become politely, respectfully insistent when we need help from a Doc, we

are quickly labeled as " one of those! Then trying to get anywhere is all but

impossible!!!! If we show any sort of initiative, have " a mind of our own, " etc

the result is the same. Example - the last " Back Surgeon " to work on my back was

extraordinarily good and did all I could have hoped for. He readily agreed to

refer me to a Pain Clinic (worth a try), as his policy is to leave " pain

management " to someone else. I imagine it's to avoid the liability that can be

incurred from the dispensing of potent medications. His office is also a very

busy place and he is a very busy guy.

His Office manager (misManager?) insisted that they would make the appointment

for me (in the dead of winter when a " normal " 3 hour drive through an area to

the east of our Great Lakes is routinely subject to sudden, vicious snow storms

that can dump a couple of feet of snow in a very sort time and make it

impossible to see at mid day). It was also the height of cold and flu season and

travel was difficult for me due to my recent surgery. I was told, " You can

always call and change the appointment. " I had to as my back was going through a

particularly bad spell where I needed to be quite and horizontal. The next

appointment had to be rescheduled due to my having a truly miserable cold and

being unable to stay awake (not dsue to any medications). On the third try, the

weather was so bad the main roads between here and there were closed (a common

occurrence). When I called I wanted to reschedule, but was told, " you have to

get another referral, because

this is the sixth (not third as was the case) 5time you've canceled! "

On my next (and final appointment with the Dr. i asked for another referral and

he got a look of terror in his eyes. The pain Clinic clearly had him afraid

they'd take no more of his patients (despite his being extremely highly regarded

in his geographical area and for his abilities as a Neurosurgeon). His Office

Manager who had been so very helpful as long as I did things exactly the way she

wanted them done clearly just wanted me out of the office when I asked her for

help with that, as the Dr. had suggested.

She had no clue that the trip to " her " office (as I'm sure she regards it), was

an ordeal for me at that time, nor did she care! She said, 'i'll call you when

we've set up another appointment. " That was in April of 2006. I'm still

waiting!!!! I've run into too many situations where the office staffs make

medical decisions with no regard for the well being of their patients!!!!

As it turned out, a few months more healing from having my back muscles severed

for the surgery made a major difference, but it was 2 full years before I was no

longer flattened for 2 to 3 week periods while things healed up!!! Do they not

know that this is what many of us will face????

Of course, about the time the back settled down, my " Left Great Toe " began

really bothering. The incompetence and indifference and arrogance of the 4 foot

doctors and one area Orthopedic Surgeon I tried (Living in a sparsely populated

area where a day will often be consumed by a 15 minute medical appointment makes

it all the more difficult when one needs help!) seeking help with the joint that

holds the toe to the foot (major Artritis) is still difficult fo rme to

comprehend. What was tried to ease the problem was absolutely the opposite of

what was needed and only made it worse and worse. They did this knowing full

well of my history of back problems (I could not afford to have my stance aor

gait negatively eaffected by my foot!

Last February I went back to an Orthopedic Surgeon 60 miles from here who was

one of 2 persons I saw for my back opver a 3 year period who was honest with me.

he said, " I can't see anything (in the pics), but it could be just my little

brain. " He referred me to another member of his group who does many foot

surgeries. The dr to whom I was referred took the few moments needed to describe

what was wrong with my toe and offer 3 options (doing nothing or 2 types of

surgery). I decided I'd like ly have the less extreme surgery (no fusion), but

wanted to think it over during the weekend (It was a Friday.). I tried stopping

at the local Mall and my back was really set off. I was barely able to get back

to my truck. The decision was made for me. What I had feared had happend to my

back due to the foot. I had been " chasing " it for 13 months.

The surgery went well in an in house unit the Orthapedic group operates

themselves = no messing with a hospital and a very clean well run facility. I

had no more pain from the surgery than I had from the toe beforehand and it only

decreased from there. The toe was done at the end of March and within a month I

was driving my 2 vehicles with clutch pedals using the stiff post op shoe. I'd

feared it would be a very long time before I could drive them again! But trying

to get shoes to fit my feet (and the " new foot " ) along with the orthitics I've

worn since I was 20 has been a long slow process that I began in early June,

2009. I had one pair of shoes I could sort of use. I managed to get to others

stretched enough to use them and bought a new pair. It's been all trial and

error trying find a combination of shoes and orthotics that work. It was made

tougher by damage done under the back of my 4th toe due to favoring the big toe.

I 've done it myself, as the

orthopedic shoe store could not get it right and I learned, the hard way, that I

know about as much as the foot doctors about the process. The first I went to,

in 1962, had bad feet (why he became a Podiatrist!) showed and explained how

one's foot should move and how the orthtics would compensate for the structure

of my feet causing callus and corns. None of the 5 I've been to since seem to

understand that basic " stuff. " I'm a good ay from walking normally, but am

gaiing on it steadily.

Unfortunately I've had a brutal time with my back at a different level than the

last 2 surgeries since early June of last year. If I need to go far, it's on

crutches which is brutal! A shopping car is often better. I spend most of my

time sitting in the swivel rocker recliner with my feet propped way up to ease

the pain in the big musckes of my upper left leg. That has been easing, but is

spreading to the same areas of the right leg.

It's been back to Physical Therapy, but we can't seem to " get off the ground " so

far. And it looks like I'll be asking our Family Dr. to refer me back to the

surgeons. oOf course once one has had back surgery, many Docs think that all

that could be done has been done. I know " their speech " almost word for word!

Now my purpose in trying to type all this was not to complain or show how tough

I've had it, but to demonstrate that far too many of us go through this sort of

" crappe " virtually every day. It's a situation that is very sad and inexcusable.

What is worse is that I've heard enough form friends afflicted with Cancer, heat

disease, etc that it seems all too similar in their cases as well. I will remain

this way as long as the general population of whatever state, or nation we live

in tolerates it! So far no one has really shaken tings up. I suspect it is

because, most of us just want to get on with the business of living and enjoying

whatever we can and however we can.

A few years ago I stopped to by auto parts from a dealer (excellent service, top

quality parts and prices comparable to the after market stores. I've known the

Assistant Service Manager for many years (He lost a son to Lymphoma in the late

1990's). He asked how I was and I said, " Fine from the neck up. " He said, " How's

your back? " i said, " sore, but I'm sure glad it's only my back (I am truly

grateful for my overall good health!). " We said to the others in the area, " What

an optimist! " I can't imagine how he and his wife and other son suffered (and

still do) from the loss of the other son!!!!

I hope that some of what I put in this causes others to realize a bit more, it's

too much like this for too many, but at least, we are not being singled out and

picked on.

Someone who can share a good laugh with us, make us laugh and who will let us be

what we are without making a big issue of it is sure a blessing. I sure don't

want to think about it all the time. When my lad asked what I want for my b day

or Christmas, etc, I point to our shaggy dog who she has to comb and walk most

of the time and say ( " There he is!!! " ) He's no cure all, but I am " addicted " to

having a good pooch around and this one is gentle and very well mannered and a

reall goofy character. He truly is a " real live Muppet. " I'm still working on

teaching him not to block the asile with his rear end while eating. He's only

been here since late March of 2007......

Here's to a comfortable day, week, month and year for all!

My very best to everyone.

Bill

> From: peter cooke <peterjcooke123@...>

> Subject: hi all

> neck pain

> Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 12:47 AM

> hi group, Well Ive read a lot of your

> letters so thought I would add my input. I am English living

> in England. Profession, plumber .retired for 10 years at 58

> yrs due to back problems, course of treatment was pain

> killers,7 years on, now suffering from aches and pain in

> legs now 65 yrs old, now they decide to xray my back.

> which shows a lot of weakening bones and damaged vertebra

> , and my GP said it was inoperable due to there wasn't

> enough solid bone structure in the surrounding area to fix

> any sort of implant to.

> A further 3 years have now passed with rapidly increasing

> pain. so I demanded that they give me an MRI scan. not

> that easy, first you have to meet their conditions, 1,

> course of pain killers, 2, 6-8 week course of physio , 10

> page questionnaire on pain management ,

> this whole process took 6 months to get the scan. Which

> shows the main problems 2 areas where the nerves are

> trapped,causing sciatic pain in both legs and the

> consultant said he could operate on it.

>

> So how many of you guys have had this opperation ?

> successful ?

> have a nice day

>

> have a nice day

>

January 12, 2010

Ann,

What you said is so true. I am most definitely treated differently because we

have no insurance and are self pay. I spoke to someone the other day with one

herniated disk, he was in within 2 weeks to the same surgeon and scheduled for a

steroisd shot immediatley. I had to wait a year and a half for one as the

surgeon really did not want to deal with me. He totally ignores my pain and

nerve problems from t11/t12. Basically I feel that as he is not billing the

insurance co's he has no interest in me as we have to pay for ourselves.

January 12, 2010

At 04:07 AM 1/12/2010, you wrote:

>

> From what I can gather about this post and my own postings in the

> past, most Dr are only interested in making money-- health care is

> big business and one time I posted telling you all about my own

> personal health care, the Dr wears a Rolex and dresses like he

> models for GQ magazine,

Well for some it is a very big business. And Health insurance and or

Medicare are what have made it that way. There is no easy answer. But

if it were not for insurance and medicare they couldn't charge what

they do and order all the test they do, very few people would be able

to pay for it. The flip side is if we paid them out of pocket like we

do a mechanic many of us would have to let much go until it became

catastrophic. Like when I was poor and had no dental insurance. My

teeth went to hell. I would visit only when I was in agony. Then it

would come down to $45 to pull or $800 to save & cap. Well except for

some fillings the answer was always pull it. If I hadn't gotten

dental through my wife, I'd have few teethe left. Last year I maxed

out my Dental insurance with one Root Canal and Cap. Even after that

I had to pay off the dentist $1200 over 6 months, and everything else

was self pay. No matter how much we try to get better dental

insurance it maxes out at $1000 per calendar year. Well that's less

than one Root canal and cap.

There are many cases like you state. The Doctor or Doctors own the

Imaging equipment so they get as many Cat Scans and MRI's out of you

as they can. It's a money machine. It's really interesting in a case

like my Wife and I. My wife through work has Blue Cross. They BC

state how much they will pay for a procedure. So the Doctor, Hospital

really mark up the cost of a procedure so BC will pay a percentage.

In the end they get what they want anyway. And for those who self pay

or have different insurance They really hit the jack pot.

When Healthcare passes and it will it will make insurance companies

and doctors even richer. That's why the AMA and AARP are behind it.

AARP doesn't really represent the best interest of retired persons

anymore. They are a front for selling insurance. They will sell more

insurance when National Healthcare goes through because with it comes

big cuts in Medicare, requiring those on Medicare to buy supplemental

health insurance or go broke. Well I could go on, but that's my opinion.

One last thing, I am blessed to have a Doctor who cares, and I have

had several others in the past who did also. All were deeply

religious and believed in charity and truly caring for their

patients. My Doctor really takes the time to listen to me and my

wife, blocking off up to an hour when he sees us. He allows us to cry

on his shoulder and does and prescribes what is necessary to relieve

our pain as much as possible. We also had a mental health therapist

in the same group who saw us for as little as $5 a visit when we were

really destitute. She was a God send. They are not all in it solely

for the money. And those who are may need to be to pay off the well

over $100K in student loans plus the extravagant malpractice

insurance. Here in PA many doctors, especially those in hi-risk like

Neuro-surgeons, Obstetricians, etc threaten to leave the state

because malpractice insurance cost had spiralled out of control.

Finally the state came in, placed some caps, and agreed to co-pay

some of the insurance costs. The doctor who did my back & neck

surgery was within 7 days of closing his practice and moving to MD

when the state jumped it, it was that bad. OK, now I'm really done

and will get off my soapbox. Dave

January 12, 2010