Guest guest Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 It is a good idea to do the program exactly as outlined in the book for the first 12 weeks so you can see that it really works. When you complete this initial challenge time you may feel more comfortable doing abs more often or changing the weight training exercises a bit if you wish. More cardio usually is not better in any case. Too much will interfere with muscle building. Twenty minutes every other day, if done with enough intensity, is plenty. Are you sure you are not eating too much at each meal? If you space them out to every 3 hours or so you should feel fairly hungry for the next meal. Hopefully after a while longer of weight training you will feel like eating them. The meals are necessary to continue to stoke your metabolism. Your metabolism revs up every time food hits your stomach in an effort to digest the food. Frequent meals also allow your body to be certain that it is ok to let go of the stored fat since another meal is coming shortly and there is no need to go into fat sparing starvation mode. Hang in there, it will become easier. Stasia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 I do abs three times per week. I find it's really hard for me to get sore abs any more. (I'm in challenge 3.) I check out Oxygen and Energy and look for new challenging ab exercises. As far as eating, I'm always looking forward to my next meal. Sometimes, I'll eat 7 meals if it's a long day. -Shaun Newcomer Questions Hi, I am new to the group (actually, I've been hanging out for about 3 days reading everyone's posts.) I have a couple of questions for some of you who have done this successfully. I am just nearing the end of my 3rd week, and it seems that if I go strictly by the book, I am not working my abs near enough. Also, I feel like I should do a little more cardio. Actually, for the last couple of days I haven't been able to work out at all and that is driving me mad! I have some sort of inner ear thing that makes me feel dizzy and drunk every time I move. And I was feeling so strong and energetic! My other question involves the meals. Sometimes I just seem to have a hard time wanting six meals a day! How bad is it to skip an occassional in-between meal (ie one of the shakes or bars) it just seems like I am consuming something constantly! Thanks in advance for your thoughts, Age 41 Height 5'6 " Weight 160 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2003 Report Share Posted August 24, 2003 Thanks for the response. I will keep eating six times a day, I think it is starting to feel a little more natural to do that anyway. About my exercise, though, I have another question. I have been doing the BFL program as outlined, ie weight training and cardio every other day and doing the intensity levels, etc. BUT I haven't (and won't) give up my twice a week kickboxing and my (at least) once a week yoga. So far, I have just considered them " recreational " and not part of the program, as they don't fit the model. Any thoughts on this? Thanks again, ----- Original Message ----- From: S Bachrach It is a good idea to do the program exactly as outlined in the book for the first 12 weeks so you can see that it really works. More cardio usually is not better in any case. Too much will interfere with muscle building. Twenty minutes every other day, if done with enough intensity, is plenty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 I can't say with authority that iodine would be beneficial in Graves disease (Hyperthyroidism) as it can exacerbate the problem. I have heard of others that suggest its use but I am doubtful. This condition is often caused by trauma and stress. Loss of a loved-one or a divorce can unbalance the hormones and send the thyroid into a frenzy. There are drugs that can moderate the heart palpitations and this should be considered. RAI and surgical reduction of the thyroid is barbaric! You will have life long problems if you allow them to give you these deadly treatments. Adding potassium is very helpful in restoring electrolyte balance. Most of us are mineral deficient and coupled with poor digestive elimination, diseases develop out of these conditions because the cellular enzymes cannot be correctly produced if they lack essential elements. Essential meaning that you must have them. Everybody needs selenium and chelated copper as well. In fact, iodine requires a presence of copper to produce physiological reactions. Dr. Wallach in his excellent book 'Rare Earths - Forbidden Cures' states that there are foods known as goitrogens that make the disease worse. They are nitrates, (always bad) broccoli, cabbage, brusselsprouts (Ugh!) Have your colon professionally purged and purchase a re-bounder to pump your lymphatics. Oxygen therapies will also be helpful. Sunlight daily for 1/2 hour over the skin and eyes without obstruction is critical. Vitamin D is made from the UV energy of sunlight striking the skin and causing a catalytic reaction with the egosterol, a component of cholesterol, which produces chemical changes in the body fluids that interact with digestive tract transport of magesium and phosphorus. If you add organic silica into the mix, it will transmutate into an absorbable form of calcium that will build the bone matrix and increase cellular uptake of calcium which helps over-all metabolism. This mix will also reverse osteoperosis according to Professor Louis Kervran in his book 'Biological Transmutations.' -- newcomer questions Greetings--I was recently diagnosed with graves' disease and my naturopath wants me to take as much iodine as possible out of my diet despite the fact that I neither use iodized salt, nor eat shellfish. I understand that others would disagree with this advice but I don't understand why. I'd appreciate input in simple, laymen's terms. Remember, please, that I do have GD and it does affect my ability to process information, especially with so much coming at me at once. Is there anything I should look at before I next talk to my doctor? Thanks-- Melisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 naturopath is misinformed! You and s/he should read the research on http://www.optimox.com and Brownstein's book on iodine. Gracia Greetings--I was recently diagnosed with graves' disease and my naturopath wants me to take as much iodine as possible out of my diet despite the fact that I neither use iodized salt, nor eat shellfish. I understand that others would disagree with this advice but I don't understand why. I'd appreciate input in simple, laymen's terms. Remember, please, that I do have GD and it does affect my ability to process information, especially with so much coming at me at once. Is there anything I should look at before I next talk to my doctor? Thanks-- Melisa ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/406 - Release Date: 8/2/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 I have been hyper 2X and unequivecally I should have been given iodine instead of partial thyroidectomy. Unequivecally hypers need iodine and maybe also adrenal meds. NOT DRUGS THAT MODERATE HEART PALPS---that is just a living hell. Gracia I can't say with authority that iodine would be beneficial in Graves disease (Hyperthyroidism) as it can exacerbate the problem. I have heard of others that suggest its use but I am doubtful. This condition is often caused by trauma and stress. Loss of a loved-one or a divorce can unbalance the hormones and send the thyroid into a frenzy. There are drugs that can moderate the heart palpitations and this should be considered. RAI and surgical reduction of the thyroid is barbaric! You will have life long problems if you allow them to give you these deadly treatments. Adding potassium is very helpful in restoring electrolyte balance. Most of us are mineral deficient and coupled with poor digestive elimination, diseases develop out of these conditions because the cellular enzymes cannot be correctly produced if they lack essential elements. Essential meaning that you must have them. Everybody needs selenium and chelated copper as well. In fact, iodine requires a presence of copper to produce physiological reactions. Dr. Wallach in his excellent book 'Rare Earths - Forbidden Cures' states that there are foods known as goitrogens that make the disease worse. They are nitrates, (always bad) broccoli, cabbage, brusselsprouts (Ugh!) Have your colon professionally purged and purchase a re-bounder to pump your lymphatics. Oxygen therapies will also be helpful. Sunlight daily for 1/2 hour over the skin and eyes without obstruction is critical. Vitamin D is made from the UV energy of sunlight striking the skin and causing a catalytic reaction with the egosterol, a component of cholesterol, which produces chemical changes in the body fluids that interact with digestive tract transport of magesium and phosphorus. If you add organic silica into the mix, it will transmutate into an absorbable form of calcium that will build the bone matrix and increase cellular uptake of calcium which helps over-all metabolism. This mix will also reverse osteoperosis according to Professor Louis Kervran in his book 'Biological Transmutations.' -- newcomer questions Greetings--I was recently diagnosed with graves' disease and my naturopath wants me to take as much iodine as possible out of my diet despite the fact that I neither use iodized salt, nor eat shellfish. I understand that others would disagree with this advice but I don't understand why. I'd appreciate input in simple, laymen's terms. Remember, please, that I do have GD and it does affect my ability to process information, especially with so much coming at me at once. Is there anything I should look at before I next talk to my doctor? Thanks-- Melisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 sharflin wrote: > You may want to look at this alternative approach to managing Grave's > disease (it does say near the end that iodine is important to include), > Sharon: > > GRAVES' DISEASE: HYPERTHYROIDISM > > Unlike Hashimoto's hypothyroiditis, Graves' disease seems very amenable > to successful > > herbal intervention and control. The three main herbs used are: > officinalis (lemon > > balm), Lycopus virginiana (bugleweed) and Leonuris cardiaca(motherwort) > in descending > > order of strength and apparent thyrosuppressive efficacy.. > Thanks so much! These are exactly the herbs I am taking in tincture form but this is the best info I've seen about exactly what they do. Since I started taking these on Monday, I've actually felt worse--more heart racing, dizziness, etc, but some of it may just be the stress of receiving a diagnosis and trying to eat within my new limitations. I am awaiting my doctor's OK to have a friend make up the tincture for me. She's a skilled herbalist and this should save me a great deal of money. Again--thanks for this info! Melisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Melisa Crosby wrote: > Greetings--I was recently diagnosed with graves' disease and my > naturopath wants me to take as much iodine as possible out of my diet > despite the fact that I neither use iodized salt, nor eat shellfish. I > understand that others would disagree with this advice but I don't > understand why. I'd appreciate input in simple, laymen's terms. > Remember, please, that I do have GD and it does affect my ability to > process information, especially with so much coming at me at once. Is > there anything I should look at before I next talk to my doctor? > > Thanks-- > > Melisa > Graves is one of those that is likely influenced by zonulin ... I.e. when you eat something you are allergic to, it changes your gut permeability. I have dermatitis herpetiformis, which is similar in that the itchiness is mediated by iodine, so I avoided iodine for years. But, in fact, I NEEDED the iodine, it's just that it somehow stimulated the IgA deposits in my skin. Once the IgA deposits were gone, the iodine was fine. ======== http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/graves_disease/54749 Patients with Graves’ disease (GD) are far more likely to develop gluten sensitivity enteropathy (GSE or celiac diseaseor sprue) than people in the normal population. Hardly a coincidence, one of the reasons for the co-existence of these two disorders revolves around the fact that both disorders (and several other diseases) share the immune system genetic markers HLA B-8 and HLA DR3. Individuals having these genetic markers can develop one or more of a certain cluster of diseases associated with these genes. ============ Anyway, if it was me I'd ask the doc to do an IgA allergy test (Enterolabs has the best one) and avoid whatever foods come up on that. There is a good chance that a lot of your symptoms will then resolve. The most common antigens are gluten and casein, but eggs, corn, and soy are issues for a lot of people too. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Hi everyone - I am new here and would LOVE to get some advice and share experiences... I hope it's OK to ask this much in my first message. I am age 59 and have had back pain on and off since about age 21. At times I was helped by some things - and not by others (MedX machine for one.) Chiropractic treatments never helped much. Around age 23 I was given an MRI and told that I had a herniated disk L4-L5 and some scoliosis. I had numerous painful episodes from age 23 to 40, sometimes ending up unable to get out of a bed or off a sofa for days at a time. Fortunately these incidents were far enough apart that I was able to function normally almost all of the time. I am finding out that my experience is not that uncommon. Plenty of my friends have back problems, as do my mom and my daughter. However, at age 40 I had some lidocaine injections that helped a LOT, and was given some orthotics that pretty much took away the pain episodes completely. Like others, I learned how to lift better, stand better, stretch, exercise etc. I was also found to have a fallen arch on my left foot. I developed some pain in the left foot from time to time. This comes and goes but the foot is now pretty abnormal looking, with the fallen arch and the toes are pushed to the left. The orthotics helped me for about 8 - 10 years and I only rarely got back injuries that hurt, and the pain soon went away. After a while the pain came back more regularly in my back and I noticed how restricted my movement was especially my left leg losing more flexibility and the same for my lower back. Now I have been getting bad cramps in both legs, and tingles in my left arm and hand. Also some back pain from time to time, and sometimes a little difficulty standing for any length of time due to the pain. I have tried physical therapy / rehab, new orthotics, a new expensive office chair, an MRI, a nerve conduction EMG test (OUCH!) and so far no real help. The MRI shows arthritis in several areas, and some pinching of the nerves in both my lumbar region and neck. C6-C7, L4-L5 and I forget where else... Now they say that I have spinal stenosis, arthritis, etc. Not fun. My latest attempts at self help include a weight loss program. I have lost ten of the 40 pounds I need to lose in the past two weeks. Yes, even with the holidays(!) and I have also started going to the gym, which DOES seem to help a little already with the leg cramps and certainly with the weight loss. I was taking Skelaxin, prednisone, Butalb-APAP-Caff for pain etc. The pain specialist gave me some Voltaren Gel (Diclofenac) to try, which is pretty useless as far as I can tell. I take the prredinisone occasionally for mouth sores. I know it can help back pain somewhat too. The other physician who performed my neuro tests said that they will probably want to give me epidural cortisone injections. So I have been reading up on this. I know that they need to use flouroscopy and one friend recommended having general anesthesia for it too. I spoke with another friend today and he said that he had problems with he use of this cortisone because the pain relief caused him to not realize when he was getting hurt. He said that he did more damage and ended up having to have two vertebrae fused. Just like some other people who I have spoken with about having bones fused, he was not pleased with the result. He still has back pain and now has other complications too. (not sure what he meant.) I spoke with another friend recently who has a titanium rod in her back and she is not at all pleased. She says that it is better than nothing, but still seems unhappy with it. Perhaps the restricted movement puts strain on other areas. Now I feel some reservation about proceeding with the epidural treatments if my regular pain specialist doctor does in fact recommend them. Trouble is - I have a job where I have to do some lifting - sometimes as much as 50 pounds, several times in one day. I also play music and need to lift my musical instruments in and out of a van etc. Thankfully I am still very active and there is a lot that I can still do, but it has been a painful period for me over the past 4 - 5 months since things started geetting really painful. I am cautiously optimistic about the improvements I am getting with going to the gym and strengthening my core lately, but wish I had learned more about all of this years ago and taken my health more seriously. I wish my family doctor hadn't taken it so simply too, until I demanded relief from the pain after several months of trying things again and again that didn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 HI and welcome,  I am Annie and too I also suffer from C spine issues from an assault 5 yrs ago and also on L-4 a small growth that infringes with my sciatica and I also have " referred pain. " I take pain meds and PT and also do home exercises and recently I was also diagnosed with PMR and FIBRO- -two autoimmune diseases that have limited my movement-- I was an athlete for years, then worked with my husband in his construction company, until I got my MFA and now I am devoted solely to my writing and my music-- (I too am a musician but more classical, used to play folk guitar but my voice is my main instrument and I sing with two major chorus' where I live.) I don't want to have the C Spine surgery because they go through the throat and there is a 4% chance of compromising my vocal chords. I got at least 6 epidurals and they helped tremendously - there is no need for a general; they use a numbing agent and that is all you need. The  steroid that they inject you with usually comes on in about a day or so and it makes you feel good and helps with the pain. I am going to the pain clinic in two weeks  where I am going to be evaluated for a better approach to my issues. I have tried traction, swimming, core strengthening and walking, you name it--- I am also depressed, (pain =depression, and vice versa.) Hang in there and stay in the group; we are a good bunch! Good luck  Annie A poet is, after all, to see From: Bry Carling <bcarling@...> Subject: Newcomer Questions neck pain Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 9:12 PM Hi everyone - I am new here and would LOVE to get some advice and share experiences... I hope it's OK to ask this much in my first message. I am age 59 and have had back pain on and off since about age 21. At times I was helped by some things - and not by others (MedX machine for one.) Chiropractic treatments never helped much. Around age 23 I was given an MRI and told that I had a herniated disk L4-L5 and some scoliosis. I had numerous painful episodes from age 23 to 40, sometimes ending up unable to get out of a bed or off a sofa for days at a time. Fortunately these incidents were far enough apart that I was able to function normally almost all of the time. I am finding out that my experience is not that uncommon. Plenty of my friends have back problems, as do my mom and my daughter. However, at age 40 I had some lidocaine injections that helped a LOT, and was given some orthotics that pretty much took away the pain episodes completely. Like others, I learned how to lift better, stand better, stretch, exercise etc. I was also found to have a fallen arch on my left foot. I developed some pain in the left foot from time to time. This comes and goes but the foot is now pretty abnormal looking, with the fallen arch and the toes are pushed to the left. The orthotics helped me for about 8 - 10 years and I only rarely got back injuries that hurt, and the pain soon went away. After a while the pain came back more regularly in my back and I noticed how restricted my movement was especially my left leg losing more flexibility and the same for my lower back. Now I have been getting bad cramps in both legs, and tingles in my left arm and hand. Also some back pain from time to time, and sometimes a little difficulty standing for any length of time due to the pain. I have tried physical therapy / rehab, new orthotics, a new expensive office chair, an MRI, a nerve conduction EMG test (OUCH!) and so far no real help. The MRI shows arthritis in several areas, and some pinching of the nerves in both my lumbar region and neck. C6-C7, L4-L5 and I forget where else... Now they say that I have spinal stenosis, arthritis, etc. Not fun. My latest attempts at self help include a weight loss program. I have lost ten of the 40 pounds I need to lose in the past two weeks. Yes, even with the holidays(!) and I have also started going to the gym, which DOES seem to help a little already with the leg cramps and certainly with the weight loss. I was taking Skelaxin, prednisone, Butalb-APAP-Caff for pain etc. The pain specialist gave me some Voltaren Gel (Diclofenac) to try, which is pretty useless as far as I can tell. I take the prredinisone occasionally for mouth sores. I know it can help back pain somewhat too. The other physician who performed my neuro tests said that they will probably want to give me epidural cortisone injections. So I have been reading up on this. I know that they need to use flouroscopy and one friend recommended having general anesthesia for it too. I spoke with another friend today and he said that he had problems with he use of this cortisone because the pain relief caused him to not realize when he was getting hurt. He said that he did more damage and ended up having to have two vertebrae fused. Just like some other people who I have spoken with about having bones fused, he was not pleased with the result. He still has back pain and now has other complications too. (not sure what he meant.) I spoke with another friend recently who has a titanium rod in her back and she is not at all pleased. She says that it is better than nothing, but still seems unhappy with it. Perhaps the restricted movement puts strain on other areas. Now I feel some reservation about proceeding with the epidural treatments if my regular pain specialist doctor does in fact recommend them. Trouble is - I have a job where I have to do some lifting - sometimes as much as 50 pounds, several times in one day. I also play music and need to lift my musical instruments in and out of a van etc. Thankfully I am still very active and there is a lot that I can still do, but it has been a painful period for me over the past 4 - 5 months since things started geetting really painful. I am cautiously optimistic about the improvements I am getting with going to the gym and strengthening my core lately, but wish I had learned more about all of this years ago and taken my health more seriously. I wish my family doctor hadn't taken it so simply too, until I demanded relief from the pain after several months of trying things again and again that didn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 I am in Sanford, FL near Orlando. Our son went to UF and he did his undergrad and graduate degrees in Architecture there. GREAT school! > OH I went to University of Fl for my undergrad and my MFA > and I live only 20 miles from it--- > where are you? > Annie > > A poet is, after all, to see > > > > > > > > From: Bry Carling <bcarling@...> > > Subject: Newcomer Questions > > neck pain > > Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 9:12 PM > > > > > > Hi everyone - I am new here and would LOVE to get some advice > > and share experiences... I hope it's OK to ask this much in my > first > > message. > > > > I am age 59 and have had back pain on and off since about age > 21. > > At times I was helped by some things - and not by others (MedX > > machine > > for one.) Chiropractic treatments never helped much. Around age > > 23 I was given an MRI and told that I had a herniated disk L4-L5 > > and some scoliosis. I had numerous painful episodes from age > > 23 to 40, sometimes ending up unable to get out of a bed or off > > a sofa for days at a time. Fortunately these incidents were far > > enough apart that I was able to function normally almost all of > the > > time. > > > > I am finding out that my experience is not that uncommon. Plenty > > of > > my friends have back problems, as do my mom and my daughter. > > > > However, at age 40 I had some lidocaine injections that helped > > a LOT, and was given some orthotics that pretty much took away > > the pain episodes completely. > > > > > > Like others, I learned how to lift better, stand better, > stretch, > > exercise > > etc. I was also found to have a fallen arch on my left foot. I > > developed > > some pain in the left foot from time to time. This comes and goes > > but the foot is now pretty abnormal looking, with the fallen > arch > > and > > the toes are pushed to the left. > > > > The orthotics helped me for about 8 - 10 years and I only rarely > > got back injuries that hurt, and the pain soon went away. > > After a while the pain came back more regularly in my back and > > I noticed how restricted my movement was especially my left leg > > losing more flexibility and the same for my lower back. > > > > Now I have been getting bad cramps in both legs, and tingles in > my > > left arm and hand. Also some back pain from time to time, and > > sometimes a little difficulty standing for any length of time due > to > > the pain. > > > > I have tried physical therapy / rehab, new orthotics, a new > > expensive > > office chair, an MRI, a nerve conduction EMG test (OUCH!) and so > > far no real help. > > The MRI shows arthritis in several areas, and some pinching of > > the nerves in both my lumbar region and neck. C6-C7, L4-L5 > > and I forget where else... > > > > Now they say that I have spinal stenosis, arthritis, etc. Not > fun. > > > > My latest attempts at self help include a weight loss program. > > I have lost ten of the 40 pounds I need to lose in the past two > > weeks. > > Yes, even with the holidays(!) and I have also started going to > the > > gym, > > which DOES seem to help a little already with the leg cramps and > > certainly with the weight loss. > > > > I was taking Skelaxin, prednisone, Butalb-APAP-Caff for pain > etc. > > The pain specialist gave me some Voltaren Gel (Diclofenac) to > try, > > which is pretty useless as far as I can tell. I take the > > prredinisone > > occasionally for mouth sores. I know it can help back pain > somewhat > > too. > > > > The other physician who performed my neuro tests said that > > they will probably want to give me epidural cortisone injections. > > So I have been reading up on this. I know that they need to use > > flouroscopy and one friend recommended having general anesthesia > > for it too. > > > > I spoke with another friend today and he said that he had > problems > > with he use of this cortisone because the pain relief caused him > > to not realize when he was getting hurt. He said that he did more > > damage and ended up having to have two vertebrae fused. Just > > like some other people who I have spoken with about having > > bones fused, he was not pleased with the result. He still has > > back pain and now has other complications too. (not sure what he > > meant.) > > > > I spoke with another friend recently who has a titanium rod in > her > > back > > and she is not at all pleased. She says that it is better than > > nothing, but > > still seems unhappy with it. Perhaps the restricted movement puts > > strain on other areas. > > > > Now I feel some reservation about proceeding with the epidural > > treatments if > > my regular pain specialist doctor does in fact recommend them. > > > > Trouble is - I have a job where I have to do some lifting - > > sometimes > > as much as 50 pounds, several times in one day. I also play > music > > and need to lift my musical instruments in and out of a van etc. > > > > Thankfully I am still very active and there is a lot that I can > > still do, > > but it has been a painful period for me over the past 4 - 5 > months > > since things started geetting really painful. > > > > I am cautiously optimistic about the improvements I am getting > with > > going to the gym and strengthening my core lately, but wish I had > > learned more about all of this years ago and taken my health > > more seriously. I wish my family doctor hadn't taken it so > simply > > too, > > until I demanded relief from the pain after several months of > > trying things again and again that didn't work. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 I am in Sanford, FL near Orlando. Our son went to UF and he did his undergrad and graduate degrees in Architecture there. GREAT school! > OH I went to University of Fl for my undergrad and my MFA > and I live only 20 miles from it--- > where are you? > Annie > > A poet is, after all, to see > > > > > > > > From: Bry Carling <bcarling@...> > > Subject: Newcomer Questions > > neck pain > > Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 9:12 PM > > > > > > Hi everyone - I am new here and would LOVE to get some advice > > and share experiences... I hope it's OK to ask this much in my > first > > message. > > > > I am age 59 and have had back pain on and off since about age > 21. > > At times I was helped by some things - and not by others (MedX > > machine > > for one.) Chiropractic treatments never helped much. Around age > > 23 I was given an MRI and told that I had a herniated disk L4-L5 > > and some scoliosis. I had numerous painful episodes from age > > 23 to 40, sometimes ending up unable to get out of a bed or off > > a sofa for days at a time. Fortunately these incidents were far > > enough apart that I was able to function normally almost all of > the > > time. > > > > I am finding out that my experience is not that uncommon. Plenty > > of > > my friends have back problems, as do my mom and my daughter. > > > > However, at age 40 I had some lidocaine injections that helped > > a LOT, and was given some orthotics that pretty much took away > > the pain episodes completely. > > > > > > Like others, I learned how to lift better, stand better, > stretch, > > exercise > > etc. I was also found to have a fallen arch on my left foot. I > > developed > > some pain in the left foot from time to time. This comes and goes > > but the foot is now pretty abnormal looking, with the fallen > arch > > and > > the toes are pushed to the left. > > > > The orthotics helped me for about 8 - 10 years and I only rarely > > got back injuries that hurt, and the pain soon went away. > > After a while the pain came back more regularly in my back and > > I noticed how restricted my movement was especially my left leg > > losing more flexibility and the same for my lower back. > > > > Now I have been getting bad cramps in both legs, and tingles in > my > > left arm and hand. Also some back pain from time to time, and > > sometimes a little difficulty standing for any length of time due > to > > the pain. > > > > I have tried physical therapy / rehab, new orthotics, a new > > expensive > > office chair, an MRI, a nerve conduction EMG test (OUCH!) and so > > far no real help. > > The MRI shows arthritis in several areas, and some pinching of > > the nerves in both my lumbar region and neck. C6-C7, L4-L5 > > and I forget where else... > > > > Now they say that I have spinal stenosis, arthritis, etc. Not > fun. > > > > My latest attempts at self help include a weight loss program. > > I have lost ten of the 40 pounds I need to lose in the past two > > weeks. > > Yes, even with the holidays(!) and I have also started going to > the > > gym, > > which DOES seem to help a little already with the leg cramps and > > certainly with the weight loss. > > > > I was taking Skelaxin, prednisone, Butalb-APAP-Caff for pain > etc. > > The pain specialist gave me some Voltaren Gel (Diclofenac) to > try, > > which is pretty useless as far as I can tell. I take the > > prredinisone > > occasionally for mouth sores. I know it can help back pain > somewhat > > too. > > > > The other physician who performed my neuro tests said that > > they will probably want to give me epidural cortisone injections. > > So I have been reading up on this. I know that they need to use > > flouroscopy and one friend recommended having general anesthesia > > for it too. > > > > I spoke with another friend today and he said that he had > problems > > with he use of this cortisone because the pain relief caused him > > to not realize when he was getting hurt. He said that he did more > > damage and ended up having to have two vertebrae fused. Just > > like some other people who I have spoken with about having > > bones fused, he was not pleased with the result. He still has > > back pain and now has other complications too. (not sure what he > > meant.) > > > > I spoke with another friend recently who has a titanium rod in > her > > back > > and she is not at all pleased. She says that it is better than > > nothing, but > > still seems unhappy with it. Perhaps the restricted movement puts > > strain on other areas. > > > > Now I feel some reservation about proceeding with the epidural > > treatments if > > my regular pain specialist doctor does in fact recommend them. > > > > Trouble is - I have a job where I have to do some lifting - > > sometimes > > as much as 50 pounds, several times in one day. I also play > music > > and need to lift my musical instruments in and out of a van etc. > > > > Thankfully I am still very active and there is a lot that I can > > still do, > > but it has been a painful period for me over the past 4 - 5 > months > > since things started geetting really painful. > > > > I am cautiously optimistic about the improvements I am getting > with > > going to the gym and strengthening my core lately, but wish I had > > learned more about all of this years ago and taken my health > > more seriously. I wish my family doctor hadn't taken it so > simply > > too, > > until I demanded relief from the pain after several months of > > trying things again and again that didn't work. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 The prednisone tabs are 20 mg and they are considered a low dose by my GP. He gave them to me for mouth sores which I have had off and on for the same amount of time as the back troubles. I now think that they are related. I think that the inflammation in my spine and other areas releaseds irritants into my system. MANY thanks for your insightful comments. I will be re-reading this e-mail before my next apppointment with the pain specialist. More later. Bry From: " rccoc1977 " <rccoc1977@...> > Hi , > The epidural treatments that the doctors want you to have involve > injecting a corticosteroid (usually not cortisone but they may call > it a cortisone shot because that's what was always used in the past) > close to the painful area (next to the dura membrane covering your > spinal cord) in your neck or back. Once injected, the corticosteroid > helps damp down the inflamation but soon diffuses out to the rest of > your body. The reason to use a shot of corticosteroid rather than > take it orally is because corticosteroids are very potent, but also > very dangerous if not used carefully. They not only reduce > inflamation but also break down body tissues like muscle, skin, > cartillage and bones, which after all is part of the healing > process--the getting rid of the damaged tissues. But the other part > of the healing process, which corticosteroids don't allow is the > building up those tissues again in a normal way. This is what the > other class of steroids does, the ones that body builders and > athletes use illegally. > > Prednisone is also a corticosteroid like cortisone and I'm > concerned that you have a supply that you take whenever you feel you > need it. The other very important point about taking > corticosteroids, is that after a week or two your body will stop > making it's own corticosteroid, which is called cortisol. This is > why you need to gradually reduce the amount you take orally because > if you go off it abruptly, your body will go into a kind of shock > and you could die. Cortisol is absolutely needed by your body to > survive, but the right amount, not too much or too little. > > I actually had 3 months of oral prednisone (15 mg per day) to > help heal my cervical spine when the arthritic inflammation was so > severe that epidurals did nothing. This was a very successfull > treatment(also much cheaper) that allowed me to go through physical > therapy to regain motion and strength. The physical therapy was > very important and it's main goal should be to strengthen neck and > back muscles so that correct posture and body mechanics can be > maintained during the day.(Unfortunately many physical therapists > don't seem to know this or they know but are lazy and don't analyze > the posture and show how to improve it!) For the neck in > particular, strengthening the upper back between the shoulder blades > so that a CHEST OUT, SHOULDER BACK posture can be maintained easily > during the day is very important. Slouching of the upper back during > standing, sitting, and at the computer all cause the head to be too > forward and the back neck muscles then have to strain to stop this > heavy weight from falling forwar > > If I go back to my old, slouched posture, my neck pain returns. I am > one of those people with no curve in the neck, so for me good > posture is a must. My head needs to be squarely on my shoulders. I > have fairly severe stenosis with 3 pancaked discs at c-4,5, c-5,6 > and c-6,7 with the spurs right up against the spinal cord pushing it > away from the midline (mass effect it's called) and also severe > stenosis at the nerve roots on the left side for C-5,6. I used to > have terrible pain and tingling in my left arm and hand and do have > atrophy in some of my arm and back muscles, but for the most part I > am pain free after being a " neck " invalid for many years. If only > I'd known then what I know now. > > Spinal problems can arise from many little body imperfections--loss > of the normal lordotic curve in the neck, a bit of scoliosis, a > fallen arch, a leg-length discrepancy but all can be improved by > proper strengthening, posture and body mechanics. > > As a last resort there is surgery. It is of concern that you had a > herniated disc at such a young age. If you do consider surgery, it > is really important to be evaluated by a spine surgeon who can > maintain the lordotic curve in your back if a fusion is needed (a > spinal reconstructive surgeon as does scoliosis cases) or perhaps > try one of the new surgeries where they only remove the bone > spurs. > > Hope this helps, > > Rochelle > > > > > > > > Hi everyone - I am new here and would LOVE to get some advice > > and share experiences... I hope it's OK to ask this much in my > first > > message. > > > > I am age 59 and have had back pain on and off since about age > 21. > > At times I was helped by some things - and not by others (MedX > machine > > for one.) Chiropractic treatments never helped much. Around age > > 23 I was given an MRI and told that I had a herniated disk L4-L5 > > and some scoliosis. I had numerous painful episodes from age > > 23 to 40, sometimes ending up unable to get out of a bed or off > > a sofa for days at a time. Fortunately these incidents were far > > enough apart that I was able to function normally almost all of > the time. > > > > I am finding out that my experience is not that uncommon. Plenty > of > > my friends have back problems, as do my mom and my daughter. > > > > However, at age 40 I had some lidocaine injections that helped > > a LOT, and was given some orthotics that pretty much took away > > the pain episodes completely. > > > > > > Like others, I learned how to lift better, stand better, stretch, > exercise > > etc. I was also found to have a fallen arch on my left foot. I > developed > > some pain in the left foot from time to time. This comes and goes > > but the foot is now pretty abnormal looking, with the fallen arch > and > > the toes are pushed to the left. > > > > The orthotics helped me for about 8 - 10 years and I only rarely > > got back injuries that hurt, and the pain soon went away. > > After a while the pain came back more regularly in my back and > > I noticed how restricted my movement was especially my left leg > > losing more flexibility and the same for my lower back. > > > > Now I have been getting bad cramps in both legs, and tingles in my > > left arm and hand. Also some back pain from time to time, and > > sometimes a little difficulty standing for any length of time due > to the pain. > > > > I have tried physical therapy / rehab, new orthotics, a new > expensive > > office chair, an MRI, a nerve conduction EMG test (OUCH!) and so > > far no real help. > > The MRI shows arthritis in several areas, and some pinching of > > the nerves in both my lumbar region and neck. C6-C7, L4-L5 > > and I forget where else... > > > > Now they say that I have spinal stenosis, arthritis, etc. Not > fun. > > > > My latest attempts at self help include a weight loss program. > > I have lost ten of the 40 pounds I need to lose in the past two > weeks. > > Yes, even with the holidays(!) and I have also started going to > the gym, > > which DOES seem to help a little already with the leg cramps and > > certainly with the weight loss. > > > > I was taking Skelaxin, prednisone, Butalb-APAP-Caff for pain > etc. > > The pain specialist gave me some Voltaren Gel (Diclofenac) to try, > > which is pretty useless as far as I can tell. I take the > prredinisone > > occasionally for mouth sores. I know it can help back pain > somewhat > > too. > > > > The other physician who performed my neuro tests said that > > they will probably want to give me epidural cortisone injections. > > So I have been reading up on this. I know that they need to use > > flouroscopy and one friend recommended having general anesthesia > > for it too. > > > > I spoke with another friend today and he said that he had problems > > with he use of this cortisone because the pain relief caused him > > to not realize when he was getting hurt. He said that he did more > > damage and ended up having to have two vertebrae fused. Just > > like some other people who I have spoken with about having > > bones fused, he was not pleased with the result. He still has > > back pain and now has other complications too. (not sure what he > meant.) > > > > I spoke with another friend recently who has a titanium rod in her > back > > and she is not at all pleased. She says that it is better than > nothing, but > > still seems unhappy with it. Perhaps the restricted movement puts > > strain on other areas. > > > > Now I feel some reservation about proceeding with the epidural > treatments if > > my regular pain specialist doctor does in fact recommend them. > > > > Trouble is - I have a job where I have to do some lifting - > sometimes > > as much as 50 pounds, several times in one day. I also play > music > > and need to lift my musical instruments in and out of a van etc. > > > > Thankfully I am still very active and there is a lot that I can > still do, > > but it has been a painful period for me over the past 4 - 5 months > > since things started geetting really painful. > > > > I am cautiously optimistic about the improvements I am getting > with > > going to the gym and strengthening my core lately, but wish I had > > learned more about all of this years ago and taken my health > > more seriously. I wish my family doctor hadn't taken it so simply > too, > > until I demanded relief from the pain after several months of > > trying things again and again that didn't work. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 HI Bry, 20 mg of prednisone is about 3-4 times what your body naturally makes so this is a significant dose and your natural cortisol will be supressed at this level. I'm assuming your GP has tried to find out what is going on with your mouth sores and that there does not seem to be an infection going on, bacterial, fungal or otherwise, so he's using prednisone as a last resort. But there may be other things you can try such as changing your diet. You may have food intolerances that are inflaming your mouth as well as other parts of your body. It all boils down to what your mast cells are reacting to. These are the main cells in your body tissues (lots in your mouth, stomach and intestines--any part of your body in contact with the environment) that release inflammatory molecules that fight infection and other damaging situations. Sometimes mast cells, because they are activating on non-dangerous stuff like food spices, acidic, hot/cold, salty, other substances in food like salicylates and low level histamine and other amines and in autoimmune disease--parts of our own bodies--they are causing inflamation all by themselves. You might have sensitive mast cells in your mouth so maybe try avoiding anything with the potential to irritate them such as alcohol, salty, acidic (orange juice esp), hot, cold, some toothpastes, mouthwashes and anything extreme I agree with you that out of wack inflammation may have something to do with the mouth sores and the back problems. Oh, are you still wearing your orthotics? These will definitely help with maintaining good posture. Rochelle > > > > > > Hi everyone - I am new here and would LOVE to get some advice > > > and share experiences... I hope it's OK to ask this much in my > > first > > > message. > > > > > > I am age 59 and have had back pain on and off since about age > > 21. > > > At times I was helped by some things - and not by others (MedX > > machine > > > for one.) Chiropractic treatments never helped much. Around age > > > 23 I was given an MRI and told that I had a herniated disk L4-L5 > > > and some scoliosis. I had numerous painful episodes from age > > > 23 to 40, sometimes ending up unable to get out of a bed or off > > > a sofa for days at a time. Fortunately these incidents were far > > > enough apart that I was able to function normally almost all of > > the time. > > > > > > I am finding out that my experience is not that uncommon. Plenty > > of > > > my friends have back problems, as do my mom and my daughter. > > > > > > However, at age 40 I had some lidocaine injections that helped > > > a LOT, and was given some orthotics that pretty much took away > > > the pain episodes completely. > > > > > > > > > Like others, I learned how to lift better, stand better, stretch, > > exercise > > > etc. I was also found to have a fallen arch on my left foot. I > > developed > > > some pain in the left foot from time to time. This comes and goes > > > but the foot is now pretty abnormal looking, with the fallen arch > > and > > > the toes are pushed to the left. > > > > > > The orthotics helped me for about 8 - 10 years and I only rarely > > > got back injuries that hurt, and the pain soon went away. > > > After a while the pain came back more regularly in my back and > > > I noticed how restricted my movement was especially my left leg > > > losing more flexibility and the same for my lower back. > > > > > > Now I have been getting bad cramps in both legs, and tingles in my > > > left arm and hand. Also some back pain from time to time, and > > > sometimes a little difficulty standing for any length of time due > > to the pain. > > > > > > I have tried physical therapy / rehab, new orthotics, a new > > expensive > > > office chair, an MRI, a nerve conduction EMG test (OUCH!) and so > > > far no real help. > > > The MRI shows arthritis in several areas, and some pinching of > > > the nerves in both my lumbar region and neck. C6-C7, L4-L5 > > > and I forget where else... > > > > > > Now they say that I have spinal stenosis, arthritis, etc. Not > > fun. > > > > > > My latest attempts at self help include a weight loss program. > > > I have lost ten of the 40 pounds I need to lose in the past two > > weeks. > > > Yes, even with the holidays(!) and I have also started going to > > the gym, > > > which DOES seem to help a little already with the leg cramps and > > > certainly with the weight loss. > > > > > > I was taking Skelaxin, prednisone, Butalb-APAP-Caff for pain > > etc. > > > The pain specialist gave me some Voltaren Gel (Diclofenac) to try, > > > which is pretty useless as far as I can tell. I take the > > prredinisone > > > occasionally for mouth sores. I know it can help back pain > > somewhat > > > too. > > > > > > The other physician who performed my neuro tests said that > > > they will probably want to give me epidural cortisone injections. > > > So I have been reading up on this. I know that they need to use > > > flouroscopy and one friend recommended having general anesthesia > > > for it too. > > > > > > I spoke with another friend today and he said that he had problems > > > with he use of this cortisone because the pain relief caused him > > > to not realize when he was getting hurt. He said that he did more > > > damage and ended up having to have two vertebrae fused. Just > > > like some other people who I have spoken with about having > > > bones fused, he was not pleased with the result. He still has > > > back pain and now has other complications too. (not sure what he > > meant.) > > > > > > I spoke with another friend recently who has a titanium rod in her > > back > > > and she is not at all pleased. She says that it is better than > > nothing, but > > > still seems unhappy with it. Perhaps the restricted movement puts > > > strain on other areas. > > > > > > Now I feel some reservation about proceeding with the epidural > > treatments if > > > my regular pain specialist doctor does in fact recommend them. > > > > > > Trouble is - I have a job where I have to do some lifting - > > sometimes > > > as much as 50 pounds, several times in one day. I also play > > music > > > and need to lift my musical instruments in and out of a van etc. > > > > > > Thankfully I am still very active and there is a lot that I can > > still do, > > > but it has been a painful period for me over the past 4 - 5 months > > > since things started geetting really painful. > > > > > > I am cautiously optimistic about the improvements I am getting > > with > > > going to the gym and strengthening my core lately, but wish I had > > > learned more about all of this years ago and taken my health > > > more seriously. I wish my family doctor hadn't taken it so simply > > too, > > > until I demanded relief from the pain after several months of > > > trying things again and again that didn't work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Rochelle, it sounds like canker sores-- same as what I have from autoimmune I have a light blue astringent mouthwash that takes care of them right away--  Hope that helps. AnnieA poet is, after all, to see ________________________________ From: rccoc1977 <rccoc1977@...> neck pain Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 4:36:49 PM Subject: Re: Newcomer Questions HI Bry, 20 mg of prednisone is about 3-4 times what your body naturally makes so this is a significant dose and your natural cortisol will be supressed at this level. I'm assuming your GP has tried to find out what is going on with your mouth sores and that there does not seem to be an infection going on, bacterial, fungal or otherwise, so he's using prednisone as a last resort. But there may be other things you can try such as changing your diet. You may have food intolerances that are inflaming your mouth as well as other parts of your body. It all boils down to what your mast cells are reacting to. These are the main cells in your body tissues (lots in your mouth, stomach and intestines--any part of your body in contact with the environment) that release inflammatory molecules that fight infection and other damaging situations. Sometimes mast cells, because they are activating on non-dangerous stuff like food spices, acidic, hot/cold, salty, other substances in food like salicylates and low level histamine and other amines and in autoimmune disease--parts of our own bodies--they are causing inflamation all by themselves. You might have sensitive mast cells in your mouth so maybe try avoiding anything with the potential to irritate them such as alcohol, salty, acidic (orange juice esp), hot, cold, some toothpastes, mouthwashes and anything extreme I agree with you that out of wack inflammation may have something to do with the mouth sores and the back problems. Oh, are you still wearing your orthotics? These will definitely help with maintaining good posture. Rochelle > > > > > > Hi everyone - I am new here and would LOVE to get some advice > > > and share experiences... I hope it's OK to ask this much in my > > first > > > message. > > > > > > I am age 59 and have had back pain on and off since about age > > 21. > > > At times I was helped by some things - and not by others (MedX > > machine > > > for one.) Chiropractic treatments never helped much. Around age > > > 23 I was given an MRI and told that I had a herniated disk L4-L5 > > > and some scoliosis. I had numerous painful episodes from age > > > 23 to 40, sometimes ending up unable to get out of a bed or off > > > a sofa for days at a time. Fortunately these incidents were far > > > enough apart that I was able to function normally almost all of > > the time. > > > > > > I am finding out that my experience is not that uncommon. Plenty > > of > > > my friends have back problems, as do my mom and my daughter. > > > > > > However, at age 40 I had some lidocaine injections that helped > > > a LOT, and was given some orthotics that pretty much took away > > > the pain episodes completely. > > > > > > > > > Like others, I learned how to lift better, stand better, stretch, > > exercise > > > etc. I was also found to have a fallen arch on my left foot. I > > developed > > > some pain in the left foot from time to time. This comes and goes > > > but the foot is now pretty abnormal looking, with the fallen arch > > and > > > the toes are pushed to the left. > > > > > > The orthotics helped me for about 8 - 10 years and I only rarely > > > got back injuries that hurt, and the pain soon went away. > > > After a while the pain came back more regularly in my back and > > > I noticed how restricted my movement was especially my left leg > > > losing more flexibility and the same for my lower back. > > > > > > Now I have been getting bad cramps in both legs, and tingles in my > > > left arm and hand. Also some back pain from time to time, and > > > sometimes a little difficulty standing for any length of time due > > to the pain. > > > > > > I have tried physical therapy / rehab, new orthotics, a new > > expensive > > > office chair, an MRI, a nerve conduction EMG test (OUCH!) and so > > > far no real help. > > > The MRI shows arthritis in several areas, and some pinching of > > > the nerves in both my lumbar region and neck. C6-C7, L4-L5 > > > and I forget where else... > > > > > > Now they say that I have spinal stenosis, arthritis, etc. Not > > fun. > > > > > > My latest attempts at self help include a weight loss program. > > > I have lost ten of the 40 pounds I need to lose in the past two > > weeks. > > > Yes, even with the holidays(!) and I have also started going to > > the gym, > > > which DOES seem to help a little already with the leg cramps and > > > certainly with the weight loss. > > > > > > I was taking Skelaxin, prednisone, Butalb-APAP-Caff for pain > > etc. > > > The pain specialist gave me some Voltaren Gel (Diclofenac) to try, > > > which is pretty useless as far as I can tell. I take the > > prredinisone > > > occasionally for mouth sores. I know it can help back pain > > somewhat > > > too. > > > > > > The other physician who performed my neuro tests said that > > > they will probably want to give me epidural cortisone injections. > > > So I have been reading up on this. I know that they need to use > > > flouroscopy and one friend recommended having general anesthesia > > > for it too. > > > > > > I spoke with another friend today and he said that he had problems > > > with he use of this cortisone because the pain relief caused him > > > to not realize when he was getting hurt. He said that he did more > > > damage and ended up having to have two vertebrae fused. Just > > > like some other people who I have spoken with about having > > > bones fused, he was not pleased with the result. He still has > > > back pain and now has other complications too. (not sure what he > > meant.) > > > > > > I spoke with another friend recently who has a titanium rod in her > > back > > > and she is not at all pleased. She says that it is better than > > nothing, but > > > still seems unhappy with it. Perhaps the restricted movement puts > > > strain on other areas. > > > > > > Now I feel some reservation about proceeding with the epidural > > treatments if > > > my regular pain specialist doctor does in fact recommend them. > > > > > > Trouble is - I have a job where I have to do some lifting - > > sometimes > > > as much as 50 pounds, several times in one day. I also play > > music > > > and need to lift my musical instruments in and out of a van etc. > > > > > > Thankfully I am still very active and there is a lot that I can > > still do, > > > but it has been a painful period for me over the past 4 - 5 months > > > since things started geetting really painful. > > > > > > I am cautiously optimistic about the improvements I am getting > > with > > > going to the gym and strengthening my core lately, but wish I had > > > learned more about all of this years ago and taken my health > > > more seriously. I wish my family doctor hadn't taken it so simply > > too, > > > until I demanded relief from the pain after several months of > > > trying things again and again that didn't work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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