Guest guest Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 Elaine, you wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> No one said anything about " restricting " a child to his/her neighborhood school. That is the place to begin thinking of placement. Another school is an extremely restrictive placement according to federal regulations. They have a hierarchy of placement options that anyone can read on an IEP form from least restrictive, i.e. regular classroom with supports and services, to the most restrictive which is an institutional setting. <<<<<<<<<<<<< I was into the practicalities, not the legalities. The neighborhood school may or may not be the least restrictive environment. If a really good teacher who will be personally rewarded by teaching your child is in another district and the bus ride is reasonable for your child (not judged by reasonable for you personally to have to do), then placements out of district may well be the best. For my child (now some time ago, but not totally irrelevant), the program in the neighborhood school (five miles) had a very disruptive mix of children because they combined ED with LD. Outside of the district, we could choose teachers who loved to teach our child to her capability and who would put up with her behaviour issues without simply dumping back onto the parents. I think that (by adult outcome measures) I have a pretty functional young adult with down syndrome. The options we had may or may not be available elsewhere, but we were able to use parent (and staff) networking when we had to change from one teacher to another (approximately every three years). This is only one (of many) potential reference models, but it worked well for many pioneer children with down syndrome including both Mitch Levitz and Kingsley (part of our network). Janet tolerated hour long bus rides just fine. Her bus drivers still ask after her. They got to be friends. Initially I was upset by the time the bus took, but eventually I came to understand that it was not a problem for Jan. Placing my personal values onto Janet in looking at what is acceptable may not be the right thing to do. If the local school works really well, then just do it! If there is an opportunity elsewhere, at least give it fair consideration. Rick .... dad to 30 year old Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 In a message dated 3/6/03 11:56:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, rdill@... writes: > Janet tolerated hour long bus rides just fine. Her bus drivers still > ask after her. They got to be friends. Initially I was upset by the > time the bus took, but eventually I came to understand that it was not a > problem for Jan. Placing my personal values onto Janet in looking at > what is acceptable may not be the right thing to do. > > If the local school works really well, then just do it! If there is an > opportunity elsewhere, at least give it fair consideration. > > Rick .... dad to 30 year old Jan > > We've got a placement hurdle for next year... starts middle school. Up until now she has been in Inclusion in her home school; the MS is less than a mile from our house. The school really doesn't know what they are doing for Inclusion and she would be overwhelmed, however the campus houses one of the county Special Day Classes. Well - they DID. This week the decision was made (due to budget cut backs) to eliminate the program. The neighboring schools have day classes on campus but won't take out-of-district kids. The closest county day program is probably going to be a hour ride on the school bus. In the past has fallen asleep on the bus ride and is difficult to get going again. NOT a great situation. - Becky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 In a message dated 3/7/2003 11:03:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, RSYOSH@... writes: > . The closest county day program is probably going to be a hour ride on > the school bus. In the past has fallen asleep on the bus ride and > is > difficult to get going again. NOT a great situation. > No, difficult physically for most people to adjust to. I wonder if there are any limits to the length of bus rides parents or school personnel will allow for students. Our local district has a policy that no special education student will ride longer than any regular ed student does. Also, our district would never pay for a child to be placed out of district ... they ain't gonna pay for a student to go to school somewhere else! Cheryl in VA Beach ... 2nd largest school system in VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 In a message dated 3/7/03 3:04:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, Wildwards writes: > > No, difficult physically for most people to adjust to. I wonder if > there are any limits to the length of bus rides parents or school personnel > will allow for students. Our local district has a policy that no special > education student will ride longer than any regular ed student does. Also, > our district would never pay for a child to be placed out of district ... > they ain't gonna pay for a student to go to school somewhere else! > Cheryl in VA Beach ... 2nd largest school system in VA > When we were in MD - where the districts are county-wide - she wouldn't have been placed out of the district either. But here our district is made upof 3 ES and 1 MS and a total of 1850 students k - 8. They don't have enough kids to support an in-district program... so the alternative is the county program. - Becky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 In a message dated 3/7/03 7:11:36 PM Central Standard Time, RSYOSH@... writes: > . But here our district is made upof 3 > ES and 1 MS and a total of 1850 students k - 8. They don't have enough > kids > to support an in-district program... so the alternative is the county > program. > ummm............that's a large distrtict to me. LOLOLOL Our home district is approximately 600 or so kids K - 12. Most of the small districts around here run aroun 500-1000 or so kids K -12 and most which average around 75 kids/ grade have their own sped departments and classrooms. I would think they would have even fewer kids but they still provide services on their own campus. (well except for mine, and even they did provide when we let them know we knew she was entitled to be educated in her home school) Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 In a message dated 3/7/03 6:56:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, _Schulte@... writes: > > This school districts in our area are this small and have their own special > ed departments. But our state sets aside a lot of money for " rural > education " . > > I don't really understand what was said about not being " allowed " to be > bussed to another district, because I know many students that do not go to > school in their own district. Here you just pay non-resident fees if you > want to go to another district. > > The problem is that the nearest district (3 miles away) is choosing not to accept Special Ed kids from outside their district. The only options offered to us (for a special day class program) are the county-based programs. Up until this year there has been one based on our MS campus, but with the budget cut backs for next year, 3 programs have been cut and ours is one of them. Becky Contra Costa County, east bay San Francisco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 In a message dated 3/7/2003 10:13:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, _Schulte@... writes: > " We aren't excepting any out of district students. " Do your school districts take regular ed students from other districts? If our students went to another city for school, our city would have to pay tuition. Cheryl in VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 I think our school district total is apprx. 75,000. We have almost 10,000 special education students. Cheryl in VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 In a message dated 3/7/03 7:36:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, wildwards@... writes: > > Do your school districts take regular ed students from other districts? If > > our students went to another city for school, our city would have to pay > tuition. > Cheryl in VA > > No - the neighboring school district is not taking ANY out-of-district students Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 In a message dated 3/7/03 8:56:52 PM Central Standard Time, _Schulte@... writes: > Here you just pay non-resident fees if you > want to go to another district. > ask your state legislature to pass open enrollment. Works really good for families who choose not to send their kids to their home district for whatever reason. (all kids.) :-) Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 In a message dated 3/7/03 9:03:18 PM Central Standard Time, RSYOSH@... writes: > . The only options offered > to us (for a special day class program) are the county-based programs. But Becky, what type of 'program' do you want for your child? Could you work with the sped dept, that will still be in your home school? Does she do well in a classroom with non disabled peers? if so perhaps setting up her own inclusive program in MS would be best for her. anyway I ask because we worked with an LD teacher for 3 of the years was in her home school. This worked ok for the first couple of years then for whatever reason her attitude changed....or perhaps she always did have that attitude and I had not really noticed it before. Oh maybe it was me that changed. hehehee Anyway good luck. joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 Joy, If our school districts (any of them) send a child to one of the two schools for the deaf and blind we have in our state, then the school district bears the tuition cost. It's usually far cheaper for them to provide an interpreter for a child than send them to the special school. Soon one of the two schools will be closed and that will make a difference for local families that may have to send their child hours away. Cheryl in VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 In a message dated 3/7/03 7:48:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, JTesmer799@... writes: > > >. The only options offered > >to us (for a special day class program) are the county-based programs. > > But Becky, what type of 'program' do you want for your child? Could you > work with the sped dept, that will still be in your home school? Does she > do > well in a classroom with non disabled peers? if so perhaps setting up her > own inclusive program in MS would be best for her. anyway I ask because we > > worked with an LD teacher for 3 of the years was in her home school. > This worked ok for the first couple of years then for whatever reason her > attitude changed....or perhaps she always did have that attitude and I had > not really noticed it before. Oh maybe it was me that changed. hehehee > > Anyway good luck. > > joy > The more I think of this the madder I get. She has been Included since Kindergarten, but as we transition into Middle School we're going to have a huge battle on our hands. The MS staff just does not get it. The have not Included a DS child before... to date the parents have all opted for something different by the time their child gets to MS. I've talked to the parents in the next district over, and they are really happy with the day class on campus that their school provides. But even ther no one is doing inclusion for their child with DS. Too much chaos going on, no one seems to know how to make it work. I knew I was going to get pushed into the day class program when hit MS - her IEP team has been hinting at it for 3 years. At least it would have been at her regular school and I could have fought for some real Inclusion experiences in classes like Social Studies. The MS is less than a mile from our house and she would be on campus with kids who have known her since First Grade who could at least say " hi " to her. But now since the program is being yanked I can see there's going to be a huge ugly fight in April to ship her off to the program about 10 miles away, with nobody she knows. At least it's on a regular ed campus. But I can't help believing that she'll know she's being dumped far away from her home, because she's not wanted in her own neighborhood. I'm seriously leaning towards moving back to land. I checked and she could go to her neighborhood school. There's a dedicated Special Ed teacher for each grade, plus staff to provide a " full continuum of services " right on campus. We'ld be in a brand new facility, on the same campus as the ES where her younger brother would be. The school is built with a 400 squarefoot Spec Ed classroom in the center of each grade cluster. - Becky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 Becky, was the first person to graduate from her elementary school that was in inclusion from 1st grade with DS. Why couldnt be the first to go to Middle school with ds in your district? I just dont get that. That certainly seems like discrimination to me. ~ Mom to 12 DS and Diabetes Type 1 and 8 NY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 > ummm............that's a large distrtict to me. LOLOLOL Our home district > is approximately 600 or so kids K - 12. Most of the small districts around > here run aroun 500-1000 or so kids K -12 and most which average around 75 > kids/ grade have their own sped departments and classrooms. This school districts in our area are this small and have their own special ed departments. But our state sets aside a lot of money for " rural education " . I don't really understand what was said about not being " allowed " to be bussed to another district, because I know many students that do not go to school in their own district. Here you just pay non-resident fees if you want to go to another district. Before Blake (ds) was born there was an autistic child in my 3rd grader's class. I heard a few teachers voice their opinions about how he didn't " belong " , and I am aware of the fact that some educators and parents still have anti-inclusion attitudes. If Blake comes up against a teacher like that, you bet I will send him to another school. I don't see the point in working with a teacher who has a negative attitude about my child before we start the school year. Schulte > ummm............that's a large distrtict to me. LOLOLOL Our home district > is approximately 600 or so kids K - 12. Most of the small districts around > here run aroun 500-1000 or so kids K -12 and most which average around 75 > kids/ grade have their own sped departments and classrooms. I would think > they would have even fewer kids but they still provide services on their own > campus. (well except for mine, and even they did provide when we let them > know we knew she was entitled to be educated in her home school) > > Joy > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 I was thinking of an early post when I said I didn't see how they could not " allow " it. But, in your situation I do see how a specific district could refuse if they say, " We aren't excepting any out of district students. " But, if they say, " We aren't accepting sped students from another district, " that is discrimination. Schulte Re: re: placement In a message dated 3/7/03 6:56:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, _Schulte@... writes: This school districts in our area are this small and have their own special ed departments. But our state sets aside a lot of money for " rural education " . I don't really understand what was said about not being " allowed " to be bussed to another district, because I know many students that do not go to school in their own district. Here you just pay non-resident fees if you want to go to another district. The problem is that the nearest district (3 miles away) is choosing not to accept Special Ed kids from outside their district. The only options offered to us (for a special day class program) are the county-based programs. Up until this year there has been one based on our MS campus, but with the budget cut backs for next year, 3 programs have been cut and ours is one of them. Becky Contra Costa County, east bay San Francisco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 I can think of several examples of students at our school that do not live in our district. Sometimes they come from nearby cities because their parents want them to have more " individualized " attention, or they come here because their parents work in our town. We live in a rural area not far from Topeka, KS. Any direction I drive I would run into another little town, within 15 miles, that also had it's own school district. I could drive my son to any one of these if I felt he would get a better education there. Each of these towns has a special education department of it's own. Some of the students that I know who come to our district qualify for reduced or free books and fees because they are low income. Schulte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2003 Report Share Posted March 8, 2003 In a message dated 3/7/2003 8:57:09 PM Central Standard Time, _Schulte@... writes: > Before Blake (ds) was born there was an autistic child in my 3rd grader's > class. I heard a few teachers voice their opinions about how he didn't > " belong " , and I am aware of the fact that some educators and parents still > have anti-inclusion attitudes. If Blake comes up against a teacher like > that, you bet I will send him to another school. I don't see the point in > working with a teacher who has a negative attitude about my child before we > start the school year. > > Schulte HI Just wanted to share that we too have come up against poor attitudes ... that Sara didn't belong in Reg Ed. I didn't pull her out and let me tell you that by the time the first 6 weeks ended, they had changed their minds/attitudes a lot of the poor attitudes comes from ignorance or fear of their own abilities to work with our kids. I believe in giving them a chance if that doesn't work then I have other paths to choose. This year Sara has a Social Studies teacher I KNOW feels that Sara should NOT be in her class .............. But she is a professional and is doing all she can to educate Sara so Ive let her be. Kathy mom to Sara 11 .............. Sara shows me daily that she is learning in SS/Sceince, Im very impressed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2003 Report Share Posted March 8, 2003 In a message dated 3/7/03 9:56:23 PM Central Standard Time, wildwards@... writes: > If our school districts (any of them) send a child to one of the two schools > > for the deaf and blind we have in our state, then the school district bears > > the tuition cost And this Cheryl is the difference in states. I don't think it's a school district thing since the school for the deaf or blind are usually state run. At least in MN. Now for the state to pay the staff, plus charge the school district would be double dipping. Are you sure that if your deaf schools are state run that they aren't double dipping? Of course being in a state that has one of the state tax rates had better be worth something. Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2003 Report Share Posted March 8, 2003 Our schools are state run, they are considered their own LEA. But school districts are supposed to be responsible for their students and that means bearing the cost to educate them. They pay a tuition fee for that student. There may be some exemptions to that and I can check. The current efforts to close one school have brought forth many stories in the news media and the focus is now on what went wrong at this local school. I haven't heard of any changes in this practice. Cheryl in VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2003 Report Share Posted March 8, 2003 In a message dated 3/8/2003 5:59:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, lisa@... writes: > OK- inform a poor little aussie girl.....By school district, do you mean > 1 school, or all the schools in your suburb/area?? > A district (in VA) is the city where you live, the LEA - local educational agency is the school system, which here is the city .... Virginia Beach Public School System, Chesapeake Public School System, Fairfax Public School System. Within each city you have different zones, based on geographical boundaries they set up. Each school has a " zone " . There are ways you can go out of zone within your district, especially if you are an athlete. Cities here do not allow out of district transfers unless parents are willing to pay tuition .... or a school system could pay tuition if they were so inclined but none of the parents I know that have requested that have ever been approved ... except for the SECEP program, which is a contracted program in all the local cities. Most cities (school systems) are not willing to admit they cannot meet the needs of their students and they are not willing to bear the expense of paying out of district tuition fees. Cheryl in VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2003 Report Share Posted March 8, 2003 OK- inform a poor little aussie girl.....By school district, do you mean 1 school, or all the schools in your suburb/area?? wildwards@... wrote: > I think our school district total is apprx. 75,000. We have almost > 10,000 > special education students. > Cheryl in VA > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 In a message dated 3/9/2003 12:02:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, web4mom@... writes: > Are you sure it's in Pr. WM? I am pretty sure it was Pr. Wm .... but I can check next week, will try and find the case. We receive a subscription publication that tells of law suits filed with different school systems concerning students with disaibilities. I am AMAZED at how many are regarding kids with DS and very surprised with the number of kids with DS that are living in residential placements. Didn't expect that in this day and age. Of course, some of the kids could be very involved, that info is not always relayed in the material I read. And there are always circumstances that we (the public) are not knowledgeable about when families make these kinds of decisions. Cheryl in VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 So what is ICFMR???? Bev (in Prince Wm.!) -----Original Message----- From: wildwards@... [mailto:wildwards@...] Not long ago I read a case about a child with DS that comes from Richmond, was placed in a ICFMR up in Fairfax/Prince Wm and the school districts duked it out over who had to pay for the child. Prince Wm wants Richmond to pay, Richmond says the child is a resident of Prince Wm because they live in the ICFMR up there ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 So what is ICFMR???? Bev (in Prince Wm.!) ICF/MR is Intermediate Care Facility/Mental Retardation. Fancy name for an institution or as they call it now, residential placement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.