Re: protocol ?? for non-healing wound on a diabetic?

[Guest guest]

When I had the infected puncture wound on my foot I applied the sticky

conductors each side of the wound and that did the job in less than 24

hours.

Jack

Re: Re: protocol ?? for non-healing

wound on a diabetic?

thanks for the input. Now my question would be where the placement would be

to heal the wound. Would it be above or below the wound? could you use

acupresure points? etc etc etc

baby_grand <bobluhrs@...> wrote: no! No! No!

Never put electrodes on broken skin. They are transdermal only.

Never use bare metal electrodes, either, they should be wrapped with

cloth, always.

One fellow killed himself sticking needles into the body and

applying very low voltage, figuring it was " safe " . It wasn't. Even

a AAA battery used that way can conceivably kill you, since the

resistance drops way down without the skin and the clot to provide

some resistance and limit the current.

Just use it on skin, not on raw wounds!!! Please? OK!

bG

> >

> > " " protocol ?? for non-healing wound on a diabetic? " "

> > This came up on the oxyplus list and naturally they talk about

> ozone.

> > But shouldn't godzila also work ?? and if so what would be a

> treatment to

> > try.

> > Thanks for to all you wonderful people for being there.

> > ivan in SF bay area

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

V,

According to one source online:

" The electro-acupuncture device is not intended to provide a significant current

between the acupuncture needles: it delivers less than a milliampere (modern

devices usually have an upper level of 0.6 milliampere), about the same as that

produced by a wristwatch battery. But, it will provide a significant voltage:

40-80 volts (with short spikes as high as 130 volts), which is the basis for the

patient response. In the commonly-used portable battery devices, this is

accomplished by boosting the voltage output of the battery, such as raising the

voltage from 9 volts to 45 volts. Thus, there is virtually no current

transmitted through the body, but there is enough of a local voltage stimulus

for the patient to feel an evident reaction at the point where the needle is

inserted. "

It seems to me that .6 of a milliampere is comparable to a beck device's output.

Am I wrong?

There is another online journal article describing " Effect of

electro-acupuncture stimulation of different frequencies and intensities on

ovarian blood flow in anaesthetized rats " . In this experiment, three different

intensities were applied to the needles of - 1.5, 3, and 6 mA - were applied for

35 s. Aren't these levels way beyond what is used for Godzilla or am I missing

something? None of these rats were electrocuted.

doug

Re: Re: protocol ?? for non-healing

wound on a diabetic?

Hi d.a.,

The power is very low on accupuncture needles. What we use here with batteries

is much higher and not safe for the needles.

Take care,

V

[Guest guest]

distinguish between a battery and a device with a limiting resistor

in it that keeps the current down. a battery like our 6v one, has no

such limitations, and the current depends only on the resistance in

the body. If you cut the skin, the resistance drops hundreds of

times. the device would still output the same current, or close to

it, since it has built-in current limiters, but the battery has only

its own internal resistance, which is quite low. thus, the body

would accept tons of current all of a sudden from a battery, but the

same or close, from a controlled device.

you will observe that here we are using simple batteries to do the

work, figuring that people will have more access to this if it's kept

simple. but...there's this factor that you cannot use batteries on

open wounds or via needles, etc. It's a severe warning given here.

bG

>

> V,

>

> According to one source online:

>

> " The electro-acupuncture device is not intended to provide a

significant current between the acupuncture needles: it delivers less

than a milliampere (modern devices usually have an upper level of 0.6

milliampere), about the same as that produced by a wristwatch

battery. But, it will provide a significant voltage: 40-80 volts

(with short spikes as high as 130 volts), which is the basis for the

patient response. In the commonly-used portable battery devices, this

is accomplished by boosting the voltage output of the battery, such

as raising the voltage from 9 volts to 45 volts. Thus, there is

virtually no current transmitted through the body, but there is

enough of a local voltage stimulus for the patient to feel an evident

reaction at the point where the needle is inserted. "

>

> It seems to me that .6 of a milliampere is comparable to a beck

device's output. Am I wrong?

>

> There is another online journal article describing " Effect of

electro-acupuncture stimulation of different frequencies and

intensities on ovarian blood flow in anaesthetized rats " . In this

experiment, three different intensities were applied to the needles

of - 1.5, 3, and 6 mA - were applied for 35 s. Aren't these levels

way beyond what is used for Godzilla or am I missing something? None

of these rats were electrocuted.

>

> doug

> Re: Re: protocol ?? for non-

healing wound on a diabetic?

>

>

> Hi d.a.,

>

> The power is very low on accupuncture needles. What we use here

with batteries is much higher and not safe for the needles.

>

>

>

>

> Take care,

> V

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ok, I think, I understand now. A simple battery device as you are promoting on

this list can be deadly with broken skin, but a more sophisticated device with

limiting resistors can be used safely. At one time, I was playing with the

notion of connecting V's Godzilla device to acupuncture needles for animal

veterinary experimentation. Is such use of this device, a cheap alternative to

the more expensive electro-acupuncture devices out there---in theory, anyway?

thanks,

doug

Re: protocol ?? for non-healing wound on

a diabetic?

distinguish between a battery and a device with a limiting resistor

in it that keeps the current down. a battery like our 6v one, has no

such limitations, and the current depends only on the resistance in

the body. If you cut the skin, the resistance drops hundreds of

times. the device would still output the same current, or close to

it, since it has built-in current limiters, but the battery has only

its own internal resistance, which is quite low. thus, the body

would accept tons of current all of a sudden from a battery, but the

same or close, from a controlled device.

you will observe that here we are using simple batteries to do the

work, figuring that people will have more access to this if it's kept

simple. but...there's this factor that you cannot use batteries on

open wounds or via needles, etc. It's a severe warning given here.

bG

[Guest guest]

probably not. they work by stimulation, and that requires the right

type of electricity waveform to actuate the nerves and whatever else

it does. Stick with the pro devices if you are entering that realm.

bG

>

> Ok, I think, I understand now. A simple battery device as you are

promoting on this list can be deadly with broken skin, but a more

sophisticated device with limiting resistors can be used safely. At

one time, I was playing with the notion of connecting V's Godzilla

device to acupuncture needles for animal veterinary experimentation.

Is such use of this device, a cheap alternative to the more

expensive electro-acupuncture devices out there---in theory, anyway?

>

> thanks,

>

> doug

> Re: protocol ?? for non-

healing wound on a diabetic?

>

>

>

> distinguish between a battery and a device with a limiting

resistor

> in it that keeps the current down. a battery like our 6v one,

has no

> such limitations, and the current depends only on the resistance

in

> the body. If you cut the skin, the resistance drops hundreds of

> times. the device would still output the same current, or close

to

> it, since it has built-in current limiters, but the battery has

only

> its own internal resistance, which is quite low. thus, the body

> would accept tons of current all of a sudden from a battery, but

the

> same or close, from a controlled device.

>

> you will observe that here we are using simple batteries to do

the

> work, figuring that people will have more access to this if it's

kept

> simple. but...there's this factor that you cannot use batteries

on

> open wounds or via needles, etc. It's a severe warning given

here.

>

> bG

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi d.a.,

Well the key point there being the short spikes . you can have the cerruntts

that high with very short spikes. but try that same trick with a continuos

currentn like from a battery then you got a big problem. When they are using

frequencies and short spikes the current is not an issue becaues the durlation

is so short. Whith our devices there is no current timing regulation and that

then provides too much. So yes the current is the same as a beck device but the

duration and timing is very different so you dont want to mix those up and think

that runnnig the same amount of current through a needle without the proper

timing and regulation is gonig to be safe. It is not.

For examplre my Electro mucsle stimulator runs on a 9 volt battery and it is

stepped up to about 360 volts but is very short voltage spikes (1000th of a

second) and it is quite bearable and makes the muscles jerk. take the same 360

volts and appyl it for a long durantion of even a full second and it colud kill

you if you have the muscel pads in the wrong place. so when worknig with teh

electricty there are many factors to consider beyond the current when applying

to the body, especially when you bypass the skin which has a high resistance,

then you quickly run into dangerous territory and it requires very precise

application of the current. you gotta know exactly what your doing there

Take care,

V

> V,

> According to one source online:

> " The electro-acupuncture device is not intended to provide a significant

> current between the acupuncture needles: it delivers less than a

> milliampere (modern devices usually have an upper level of 0.6

> milliampere), about the same as that produced by a wristwatch battery.

> But, it will provide a significant voltage: 40-80 volts (with short

> spikes as high as 130 volts), which is the basis for the patient

> response. In the commonly-used portable battery devices, this is

> accomplished by boosting the voltage output of the battery, such as

> raising the voltage from 9 volts to 45 volts. Thus, there is virtually no

> current transmitted through the body, but there is enough of a local

> voltage stimulus for the patient to feel an evident reaction at the point

where the needle is inserted. "

> It seems to me that .6 of a milliampere is comparable to a beck device's

output. Am I wrong?

> There is another online journal article describing " Effect of

> electro-acupuncture stimulation of different frequencies and intensities

> on ovarian blood flow in anaesthetized rats " . In this experiment, three

> different intensities were applied to the needles of - 1.5, 3, and 6 mA -

> were applied for 35 s. Aren't these levels way beyond what is used for

> Godzilla or am I missing something? None of these rats were electrocuted.

> doug

> Re: Re: protocol ?? for non-healing

wound on a diabetic?

> Hi d.a.,

> The power is very low on accupuncture needles. What we use here with

> batteries is much higher and not safe for the needles.

> Take care,

> V

>

[Guest guest]

right,could not agree more. the whole idea of muscle stimulators

rests on a reliably controlled duration. If the device breaks down

and does not cut out after the 1000/th second or so, you could have

troubles with it. that's highly unlikely. I often wondered about

that, too, then I saw the waveform plotted out vs time, and it was

definitely near-instant, and not many electrons (current) flows into

you in that small a time period. electrons cause ionization, create

toxins, etc in large amounts. but a short spike supplies very few of

them. if the spike is high-intensity it affects the nerves as the

body tries to react to avoid it. but there's few significant

chemical changes that could kill you going on. we are deliberately

creating these chemical changes at a controlled level and avoiding

the breakdown of healthy tissue, and nerve stimulus that could be a

danger, and instead inactivating microbes by this tiny amount of

chemical change that affects " them " and not " us " .

bG

>

> Hi d.a.,

>

> Well the key point there being the short spikes . you can have the

cerruntts that high with very short spikes. but try that same trick

with a continuos currentn like from a battery then you got a big

problem. When they are using frequencies and short spikes the current

is not an issue becaues the durlation is so short. Whith our devices

there is no current timing regulation and that then provides too

much. So yes the current is the same as a beck device but the

duration and timing is very different so you dont want to mix those

up and think that runnnig the same amount of current through a needle

without the proper timing and regulation is gonig to be safe. It is

not.

> For examplre my Electro mucsle stimulator runs on a 9 volt battery

and it is stepped up to about 360 volts but is very short voltage

spikes (1000th of a second) and it is quite bearable and makes the

muscles jerk. take the same 360 volts and appyl it for a long

durantion of even a full second and it colud kill you if you have the

muscel pads in the wrong place. so when worknig with teh electricty

there are many factors to consider beyond the current when applying

to the body, especially when you bypass the skin which has a high

resistance, then you quickly run into dangerous territory and it

requires very precise application of the current. you gotta know

exactly what your doing there

>

>

>

>

> Take care,

> V

>

>

> > V,

>

> > According to one source online:

>

> > " The electro-acupuncture device is not intended to provide a

significant

> > current between the acupuncture needles: it delivers less than a

> > milliampere (modern devices usually have an upper level of 0.6

> > milliampere), about the same as that produced by a wristwatch

battery.

> > But, it will provide a significant voltage: 40-80 volts (with

short

> > spikes as high as 130 volts), which is the basis for the patient

> > response. In the commonly-used portable battery devices, this is

> > accomplished by boosting the voltage output of the battery, such

as

> > raising the voltage from 9 volts to 45 volts. Thus, there is

virtually no

> > current transmitted through the body, but there is enough of a

local

> > voltage stimulus for the patient to feel an evident reaction at

the point where the needle is inserted. "

>

> > It seems to me that .6 of a milliampere is comparable to a beck

device's output. Am I wrong?

>

> > There is another online journal article describing " Effect of

> > electro-acupuncture stimulation of different frequencies and

intensities

> > on ovarian blood flow in anaesthetized rats " . In this

experiment, three

> > different intensities were applied to the needles of - 1.5, 3,

and 6 mA -

> > were applied for 35 s. Aren't these levels way beyond what is

used for

> > Godzilla or am I missing something? None of these rats were

electrocuted.

>

> > doug

> > Re: Re: protocol ?? for

non-healing wound on a diabetic?

>

>

> > Hi d.a.,

>

> > The power is very low on accupuncture needles. What we use here

with

> > batteries is much higher and not safe for the needles.

>

>

>

>

> > Take care,

> > V

>

>

> >

[Guest guest]

Careful, Doug.

I am old enough to remember the days when you could drown extra, unwanted

pups or kittens, but today you can go to jail for that. Its called animal

cruelty. Its possible that you could call down the wrath of the system on

yourself if they discover that you have electrocuted your dog.

Dick

Re: protocol ?? for non-healing

> wound on a diabetic?

>

>

>

> distinguish between a battery and a device with a limiting resistor

> in it that keeps the current down. a battery like our 6v one, has no

> such limitations, and the current depends only on the resistance in

> the body. If you cut the skin, the resistance drops hundreds of

> times. the device would still output the same current, or close to

> it, since it has built-in current limiters, but the battery has only

> its own internal resistance, which is quite low. thus, the body

> would accept tons of current all of a sudden from a battery, but the

> same or close, from a controlled device.

>

> you will observe that here we are using simple batteries to do the

> work, figuring that people will have more access to this if it's kept

> simple. but...there's this factor that you cannot use batteries on

> open wounds or via needles, etc. It's a severe warning given here.

>

> bG

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

right. You need the milliamp, smaller meter, Loew's $11.95. test it

for continuity before you leave the store, just rip it open, set on

the bottom-most setting (continuity check) and touch probes

together. Abt 1/3 of these meters are dead, so check it first.

b

> > > >

> > > > " " protocol ?? for non-healing wound on a diabetic? " "

> > > > This came up on the oxyplus list and naturally they talk

about

> > > ozone.

> > > > But shouldn't godzila also work ?? and if so what would be a

> > > treatment to

> > > > try.

> > > > Thanks for to all you wonderful people for being there.

> > > > ivan in SF bay area

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >