Re: Questions about effectiveness

[Guest guest]

poration is out, that's not it. that takes 1000 volts.

everyone's in the dark on hep-c. it won't culture outside the body,

and inside it's very hard to measure its effects or where it is.

it has never even been seen under electron microscopes.

What abt the method of one electrode on the wrist, the other one

goes to a pad on the liver? I've been harping on that, but not sure

if anyone's even paying attention. the blood carries this, and the

liver incubates it. that's the current think.

It's only a matter of covering the nest and the infection path, it

would seem to keep it sub-clinical. How do the actual numbers look?

Are you higher lower or the same as when you started? What abt

symptomatically? And any biopsies to compare or just blood samples.

bg

>

> First thing I want to say, is that I have witnessed first hand,

the effectiveness of this tech. and I believe it will work to

eleminate virus infections.

> However, there are still some questions about dosage, timing, and

electroporation that have to be ironed out, I think.

> I got a steady decrease in the beginning, on the liver cell

damage counts. What I considered excellent results, considering that

I did almost no other therapy.

> Then a steady climb, meaning an increase in damage.

> Now the question I have is: is it possible to have

electroporation of healthy blood cells, where the electricity allows

intact virus to infect the healthy cell, and be ushered into the

liver lke a trojan horse?

> Is there a threshold of current where current is too high? Or two

low?

> I haven't given up, but right now, I feel like I'm shooting in

the dark.

>

> BTW, just thought I'd pass this on...

> http://bioelectric.ws/eng/electro-news.html

[Guest guest]

poration is out, that's not it. that takes 1000 volts.

everyone's in the dark on hep-c. it won't culture outside the body,

and inside it's very hard to measure its effects or where it is.

it has never even been seen under electron microscopes.

What abt the method of one electrode on the wrist, the other one

goes to a pad on the liver? I've been harping on that, but not sure

if anyone's even paying attention. the blood carries this, and the

liver incubates it. that's the current think.

It's only a matter of covering the nest and the infection path, it

would seem to keep it sub-clinical. How do the actual numbers look?

Are you higher lower or the same as when you started? What abt

symptomatically? And any biopsies to compare or just blood samples.

bg

>

> First thing I want to say, is that I have witnessed first hand,

the effectiveness of this tech. and I believe it will work to

eleminate virus infections.

> However, there are still some questions about dosage, timing, and

electroporation that have to be ironed out, I think.

> I got a steady decrease in the beginning, on the liver cell

damage counts. What I considered excellent results, considering that

I did almost no other therapy.

> Then a steady climb, meaning an increase in damage.

> Now the question I have is: is it possible to have

electroporation of healthy blood cells, where the electricity allows

intact virus to infect the healthy cell, and be ushered into the

liver lke a trojan horse?

> Is there a threshold of current where current is too high? Or two

low?

> I haven't given up, but right now, I feel like I'm shooting in

the dark.

>

> BTW, just thought I'd pass this on...

> http://bioelectric.ws/eng/electro-news.html

[Guest guest]

the time factor and morbidity of liver cells may also be

interesting. what if the liver cells die off in large numbers 90 or

120 days after electrification while hosting hep-c inside each of

them? Does DC set a destruction clock for infected liver cells?

With HIV this is so. HIV-Infected CD4's lyse or burst open a week

after exposure, suddenly dropping the C4 count which freaks out

people. Then they are replaced, the replacements don't get

infected, and the count goes up higher than before they dropped.

Could something similar be occurring with liver cells? Could this

show up as " liver cells damaged " in a blood test? Who knows.

bG

> >

> > First thing I want to say, is that I have witnessed first

hand,

> the effectiveness of this tech. and I believe it will work to

> eleminate virus infections.

> > However, there are still some questions about dosage, timing,

and

> electroporation that have to be ironed out, I think.

> > I got a steady decrease in the beginning, on the liver cell

> damage counts. What I considered excellent results, considering

that

> I did almost no other therapy.

> > Then a steady climb, meaning an increase in damage.

> > Now the question I have is: is it possible to have

> electroporation of healthy blood cells, where the electricity

allows

> intact virus to infect the healthy cell, and be ushered into the

> liver lke a trojan horse?

> > Is there a threshold of current where current is too high? Or

two

> low?

> > I haven't given up, but right now, I feel like I'm shooting in

> the dark.

> >

> > BTW, just thought I'd pass this on...

> > http://bioelectric.ws/eng/electro-news.html

[Guest guest]

the time factor and morbidity of liver cells may also be

interesting. what if the liver cells die off in large numbers 90 or

120 days after electrification while hosting hep-c inside each of

them? Does DC set a destruction clock for infected liver cells?

With HIV this is so. HIV-Infected CD4's lyse or burst open a week

after exposure, suddenly dropping the C4 count which freaks out

people. Then they are replaced, the replacements don't get

infected, and the count goes up higher than before they dropped.

Could something similar be occurring with liver cells? Could this

show up as " liver cells damaged " in a blood test? Who knows.

bG

> >

> > First thing I want to say, is that I have witnessed first

hand,

> the effectiveness of this tech. and I believe it will work to

> eleminate virus infections.

> > However, there are still some questions about dosage, timing,

and

> electroporation that have to be ironed out, I think.

> > I got a steady decrease in the beginning, on the liver cell

> damage counts. What I considered excellent results, considering

that

> I did almost no other therapy.

> > Then a steady climb, meaning an increase in damage.

> > Now the question I have is: is it possible to have

> electroporation of healthy blood cells, where the electricity

allows

> intact virus to infect the healthy cell, and be ushered into the

> liver lke a trojan horse?

> > Is there a threshold of current where current is too high? Or

two

> low?

> > I haven't given up, but right now, I feel like I'm shooting in

> the dark.

> >

> > BTW, just thought I'd pass this on...

> > http://bioelectric.ws/eng/electro-news.html

[Guest guest]

My last numbers were 326, a number which alarmed my MD, (normal is 40 or

less) the average person with hcv has an average of 80-120, and that's

my usual place too,-(if I do nothing) but given my improvement in

appearance, and lack of symptoms, I was surprised too.

[Guest guest]

My last numbers were 326, a number which alarmed my MD, (normal is 40 or

less) the average person with hcv has an average of 80-120, and that's

my usual place too,-(if I do nothing) but given my improvement in

appearance, and lack of symptoms, I was surprised too.

[Guest guest]

there's a medical person asking me about this, who wants to know

what was the name of the test used to get these numbers? Was it a

liver function test?

> My last numbers were 326, a number which alarmed my MD, (normal is

40 or

> less) the average person with hcv has an average of 80-120, and

that's

> my usual place too,-(if I do nothing) but given my improvement in

> appearance, and lack of symptoms, I was surprised too.

[Guest guest]

there's a medical person asking me about this, who wants to know

what was the name of the test used to get these numbers? Was it a

liver function test?

> My last numbers were 326, a number which alarmed my MD, (normal is

40 or

> less) the average person with hcv has an average of 80-120, and

that's

> my usual place too,-(if I do nothing) but given my improvement in

> appearance, and lack of symptoms, I was surprised too.

[Guest guest]

The numbers 326 were for sgot, or stpt, I forget which....

[Guest guest]

The numbers 326 were for sgot, or stpt, I forget which....

[Guest guest]

> The numbers 326 were for sgot, or stpt, I forget which....

here's a quote:

I recently got lab test results that gave an SGOT level of 143 and

SGPT of 309. I have Hep C, but this was my first blood test in the

past few years. Are these levels particularly high? And can you tell

me if someone can have more than one genotype of the Hepatitis C

virus?

Thank You, Tim

Doctor:

They are elevated, but not extremely high and have a consistent

pattern of HCV infection. Yes you can have infection with more than

one genotype.

bG's comment from reading a bit on this:

exercising can give falsely high readings. red cell losses give off

these enzymes as well as liver damage. Liver damage is one source

for elevated levels but not the only source.

bG

[Guest guest]

Consistently high numbers mean inflammation and cell death. And can lead

to scarring, possibly of the bile duct. People with bile obstruction

don't properly process the end result of digestion, just for starters.

Long term, it can lead to liver failure; first your bile backs up into

the system, poisoning you, which then overburdens the liver, beginning

the spiral.

The numbers need to be low. Once in awhile, or because of an event or

injury; okay, but 30 years is a long time.

[Guest guest]

I'm no expert but it seems that they should not be high

consistently, I guess I was hoping some factor was present that got

overlooked.

So far, (and we are certainly not done trying) only a symptomatic

relief seems possible with this. Viral load has bounced around,

mostly down when used, but then jumps up when stopped. Reduced the

load 99 percent in 12 weeks in one case, then stopped it for 3 weeks

and it went up to about 1/3 the level before starting 15 weeks

earlier, so it didn't stay very low for long. In another case there

seems to be no correlation between usage and results in the count,

which kept going all over the place. Neither person used it on the

liver, just the bloodstream.

Sorry this didn't give a better result for you. I'll file it with

Hep-c reports.

bG

> Consistently high numbers mean inflammation and cell death. And

can lead

> to scarring, possibly of the bile duct. People with bile

obstruction

> don't properly process the end result of digestion, just for

starters.

> Long term, it can lead to liver failure; first your bile backs up

into

> the system, poisoning you, which then overburdens the liver,

beginning

> the spiral.

> The numbers need to be low. Once in awhile, or because of an

event or

> injury; okay, but 30 years is a long time.

[Guest guest]

I've just read over the data in your file, Ck, there was a period of

normalcy or very near in AST (17-59 normal according to one website

I read, yours was 59) about six months ago, if I'm not mistaken. At

some point you changed to 2-3ma a day after you were using around

1mA prior. (correct me here if I'm wrong) If you do kill off some

of your own cells with too high a current and either poison them

from ionization degradation, or otherwise burn them, they give off

the same enzyme that damaged liver cells do. If it were me I'd try

to duplicate the condition that seemed to work (1mA) and see if it

still does?

bG

> > Consistently high numbers mean inflammation and cell death. And

> can lead

> > to scarring, possibly of the bile duct. People with bile

> obstruction

> > don't properly process the end result of digestion, just for

> starters.

> > Long term, it can lead to liver failure; first your bile backs

up

> into

> > the system, poisoning you, which then overburdens the liver,

> beginning

> > the spiral.

> > The numbers need to be low. Once in awhile, or because of an

> event or

> > injury; okay, but 30 years is a long time.

[Guest guest]

Dear Mumbe, As ayoung person eager to intervene to meke development relecvant to those that are marginalised, it is quite encouraging to see that you are interested in measuring effectiveness. I say this because we are now in the era of accountability. When you start activities meant to improve the lot of beneficiaries, you are committing yourself to being accountable to them. The question you ask is pertinent, because often people work with grouops that it may be difficult to prove change using the conventional measurements. However, the lucky thing is that a lot of advancement has come up to try to help implementors measure achievement. These start from being quite cxllear about what you want to do and what chenges yopu want to achieve, and dont forgetr, at the least cost!To beging with consideryour intervention design, then what maesurements and whether they will be effective. Do you want to compare individuals in the population wiyth themselves

before and after intervention? Do you want to com[pare intervention population with none intervention population that are fairly simmilar socially? do you want to compare interventuion population with itself? These questions will help you to choose the mosty approapriate INDICATORS and the METHODS of measuring the indicators and testing them for significance of change. For the time being just look up measures of transition such as analysis of variance. look up the limitations. LOOK AT COPARATIVE ANALYSIS FOR SMALL NUMBERS, CHI SQUARED, STUDENT T TEST. Then the more recent methods of measurements of more difficult changes such as Lots quality sample tests (LQST, I think), and measure ment of the Most significant change (MSC) methods the look for those familiar with them to discuss.That is your question is loaded, but it shows your committment to accountability and that is really improtant and commendfable!! Alwar

mukithak <mukithak@...> wrote: Dear Friends, I am a reader of this listserv and fortunate to be involved with a small grassroots group in Kibera. Currently I am also a graduate student and looking for ways to carry out research that is relevant and valuable to grassroots organizations providing services to children that are vulnerable especially as a result of HIV/AIDS. I also have an opportunity to develop a baseline survey for an organization. As such I have a couple questions for

those involved with organizations providing services to vulnerable children. 1. How do you measure program effectiveness or success? 2. How do you assess whether programs are providing for the social or emotional needs of children? Thank you very much for your time. Mumbe

Don't be flakey. Get for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

[Guest guest]

Dear Mumbe, As ayoung person eager to intervene to meke development relecvant to those that are marginalised, it is quite encouraging to see that you are interested in measuring effectiveness. I say this because we are now in the era of accountability. When you start activities meant to improve the lot of beneficiaries, you are committing yourself to being accountable to them. The question you ask is pertinent, because often people work with grouops that it may be difficult to prove change using the conventional measurements. However, the lucky thing is that a lot of advancement has come up to try to help implementors measure achievement. These start from being quite cxllear about what you want to do and what chenges yopu want to achieve, and dont forgetr, at the least cost!To beging with consideryour intervention design, then what maesurements and whether they will be effective. Do you want to compare individuals in the population wiyth themselves

before and after intervention? Do you want to com[pare intervention population with none intervention population that are fairly simmilar socially? do you want to compare interventuion population with itself? These questions will help you to choose the mosty approapriate INDICATORS and the METHODS of measuring the indicators and testing them for significance of change. For the time being just look up measures of transition such as analysis of variance. look up the limitations. LOOK AT COPARATIVE ANALYSIS FOR SMALL NUMBERS, CHI SQUARED, STUDENT T TEST. Then the more recent methods of measurements of more difficult changes such as Lots quality sample tests (LQST, I think), and measure ment of the Most significant change (MSC) methods the look for those familiar with them to discuss.That is your question is loaded, but it shows your committment to accountability and that is really improtant and commendfable!! Alwar

mukithak <mukithak@...> wrote: Dear Friends, I am a reader of this listserv and fortunate to be involved with a small grassroots group in Kibera. Currently I am also a graduate student and looking for ways to carry out research that is relevant and valuable to grassroots organizations providing services to children that are vulnerable especially as a result of HIV/AIDS. I also have an opportunity to develop a baseline survey for an organization. As such I have a couple questions for

those involved with organizations providing services to vulnerable children. 1. How do you measure program effectiveness or success? 2. How do you assess whether programs are providing for the social or emotional needs of children? Thank you very much for your time. Mumbe

Don't be flakey. Get for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.