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just a question.....

I have been experiencing lightheadednes for 2 months now and have been

treated for inner ear, sinus, etc and still have the lightheadedness ( but also

still having some sinus stuff). I also have been experiencing blood in stools

and I am clueless. My pharmacist has suggested stopping the celebrex as it can

cause both symptoms but I have been on it 5 years...has anyone experienced

not developing side effects until this many years after starting a med???

I have not taken celebrex for 2 nights and have seen little difference. I

called my rheumy and he will see me January 8th. I see my hemotologist Friday

and will bring all this up with him as well...

hangin tight and tough!

Donna

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ellen, I suspect my doc is only going by the lab results. My neck

size reducing is not from a goiter, that was ruled out, but from

excess fat gathering in that region.

I'm on 200 mcg Selenium, plus other supplements, and Cytomel

10mcg/day for my T3. Lab results are as follows:

TSH .47, FT3 318, FT4 .7 sorry don't have the ranges with me right

now doing this from work. I've been tested for antibodies and that

always come up not having any. I will being getting more lab work

done in a month from starting the increase and see what #'s show at

that time. I've also started taking an adrenal glandular to support

this time of the year stress.

Thank you for your information.

kathleen

> >

> > Hi, I've searched the files and not finding an answer or help in

my

> > question. I vaguely remember (grey moment..lol) a message a

while back

> > talking about the relationship of thyroid meds and Iodoral.

> >

> > My doc has increased my Armor to 90mg/day from 60mg/day. I've

been on

> > 50 mg/day of Iodoral now for a little over 2mths. Will the

increase of

> > meds decrease the benefits of Iodoral? Or, is this a sign that

my body

> > is adjusting to the benefits of Iodoral? Would greatly

appreciate any

> > insight to this as I want to stay on Iodoral (neck size shrunk

after

> > starting Iodoral).

> >

> > Thank you and have a great holiday

> > Kathleen

> >

>

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Kathleen,

You didn't say how long you were on 60 mg. Armour or your T3 dose. 60 mg.

of Armour is a piddly dose - how long were you on it? It would be relevant

to know how well you were doing on 60 mg. of Armour and for how long before

you started Iodoral. 60 mg. is just enough to suppress your own thyroid

production without providing enough thyroid for your body's needs. Before

TSH and Synthroid came along, the usual dose of Armour was between 3-5

grains. You might need even more than 90 mg. of Armour.

I quite disagree with Ellen's alarm about your thyroid burning out.

Especially since you have tested negatively for thyroid antibodies. Were

you on 60 mg. of Armour when you had the lab test? Your FT3 & FT4 should be

in the upper quarter of range to be optimal. Based on the ranges for my lab

tests, I don't think you're up there yet. What is more important than lab

tests is how you feel.

I don't think your Armour increase affects the benefits of Iodoral.

Lynn

> Hi, I've searched the files and not finding an answer or help in my

> question. I vaguely remember (grey moment..lol) a message a while back

> talking about the relationship of thyroid meds and Iodoral.

>

> My doc has increased my Armor to 90mg/day from 60mg/day. I've been on

> 50 mg/day of Iodoral now for a little over 2mths. Will the increase of

> meds decrease the benefits of Iodoral? Or, is this a sign that my body

> is adjusting to the benefits of Iodoral? Would greatly appreciate any

> insight to this as I want to stay on Iodoral (neck size shrunk after

> starting Iodoral).

>

> Thank you and have a great holiday

> Kathleen

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Lynn, thank you for your support. I will have to wait till I get

home to give you the details of how long and what lab results.

What can I look forward to symptom wise with the increases of thyroid

meds and steady intake of Iodoral?

Again, thank you, and happy holidays

Kathleen

>

> Kathleen,

>

> You didn't say how long you were on 60 mg. Armour or your T3 dose.

60 mg.

> of Armour is a piddly dose - how long were you on it? It would be

relevant

> to know how well you were doing on 60 mg. of Armour and for how

long before

> you started Iodoral. 60 mg. is just enough to suppress your own

thyroid

> production without providing enough thyroid for your body's needs.

Before

> TSH and Synthroid came along, the usual dose of Armour was between

3-5

> grains. You might need even more than 90 mg. of Armour.

>

> I quite disagree with Ellen's alarm about your thyroid burning out.

> Especially since you have tested negatively for thyroid

antibodies. Were

> you on 60 mg. of Armour when you had the lab test? Your FT3 & FT4

should be

> in the upper quarter of range to be optimal. Based on the ranges

for my lab

> tests, I don't think you're up there yet. What is more important

than lab

> tests is how you feel.

>

> I don't think your Armour increase affects the benefits of Iodoral.

>

> Lynn

>

>

> > Hi, I've searched the files and not finding an answer or help in

my

> > question. I vaguely remember (grey moment..lol) a message a

while back

> > talking about the relationship of thyroid meds and Iodoral.

> >

> > My doc has increased my Armor to 90mg/day from 60mg/day. I've

been on

> > 50 mg/day of Iodoral now for a little over 2mths. Will the

increase of

> > meds decrease the benefits of Iodoral? Or, is this a sign that

my body

> > is adjusting to the benefits of Iodoral? Would greatly

appreciate any

> > insight to this as I want to stay on Iodoral (neck size shrunk

after

> > starting Iodoral).

> >

> > Thank you and have a great holiday

> > Kathleen

>

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Lynn, I've been taking 60mg Armour for 6 wks, then blood was drawn,

and from the results Doc increased to 90mg on 12/14, labs were as

follows:

8/31/06 taking 45mg Armour, 10mcg Cytomel, 12.5mg Iodoral

TSH - .44(.40-5.50)

FT3 376 (230-420)

FT4 .9 (.8-1.8)

12/13/06 taking 60mg Armour, 10mcg Cytomel, 50mg Iodoral

TSH - .42

FT3 - 318

FT4 - .7

>

> Kathleen,

> It's hard to answer what changes you will see without knowing your

current

> symptoms. You may see some energy and temperature increase. You

may see

> some current symptoms that you don't even associate with thyroid

and iodine

> deficiency go away, such as frequent infections, breast and ovary

problems,

> and aching joints. The influence of iodine on your thyroid may

depend on

> why you're hypothyroid. The effect of more thyroid may depend on

your

> adrenal health.

Lynn, I've been noticing my body is cooler lately, less heating up

during the day and less night sweats.

My cortisol level is high in the am,24.9(4.-22.), and low in the pm,

4.7(3-17)and just recently started taking a glandular. I'm keeping

myself at lower doses of Cytomel T3 on purpose to eventually,

hopefully get off the need of it.

>

> If you weren't on iodine, 90 mg. of Armour is usually not enough,

but then

> you said you're also taking T3. On the NaturalThyroidHormones

group,

> the recommendation is to take only Armour, and to not add

additional T3,

> until the person is taking at least 4 grains Armour. Armour has

T1, T2, T3,

> T4 and calcitonin, in a natural form, and you miss out on those

extras when

> taking synthetic T3.

>

> If a person has long-standing autoimmune thyroid disease, and

antibodies are

> not checked for at some point before the antibodies burn out the

thyroid

> itself, then a later antibody test could show no antibodies. In

that case,

> you need history to rule out whether antibodies were every present.

>

> Thyroid antibodies are the major but not the only cause of

hypothyroidism.

> Mercury from amalgams, vaccinations, and other sources can target

the

> thyroid. Dietary factors, such as soy and raw goitrogen

consumption,

> inadequate minerals, or toxic chemicals will cause hypothyroidism.

T4 to T3

> conversion happens mainly in the liver, so good liver function is

needed.

I've had several antibody blood test through several years and all

are not showing any. I take Inositol purposely for supporting the

liver.

> I suspect you are wondering what influence iodoral consumption has

on

> thyroid function and thyroid supplementation. This is still an open

> question on this group. I believe some people have reported being

able to

> get off thyroid supplementation, and some have been able to lower

their

> dosage. But I think these have been incidental reports so far.

>

> Lynn

>

I also agree the jury is still out on the outcome of taking Iodoral.

It being so individual in its results. You have been most helpful in

my understanding as I go through this process.

Kathleen

>

>

>

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Hi Kathleen-

You need to know exactly which antibody tests they did and what your

readings were. Most docs don't even know which tests to run, let

alone how to interpret them. Any antibody levels recorded at all are

not normal. It is not normal for a person to have auto-antibodies in

his/her system. Also, if tested early or after remission, you may not

show antibodies, but the damage is still done.

Hopefully that's not it at all! You would be blessed indeed.

E (Ellen in Missouri)

> > >

> > > Hi, I've searched the files and not finding an answer or help in

> my

> > > question. I vaguely remember (grey moment..lol) a message a

> while back

> > > talking about the relationship of thyroid meds and Iodoral.

> > >

> > > My doc has increased my Armor to 90mg/day from 60mg/day. I've

> been on

> > > 50 mg/day of Iodoral now for a little over 2mths. Will the

> increase of

> > > meds decrease the benefits of Iodoral? Or, is this a sign that

> my body

> > > is adjusting to the benefits of Iodoral? Would greatly

> appreciate any

> > > insight to this as I want to stay on Iodoral (neck size shrunk

> after

> > > starting Iodoral).

> > >

> > > Thank you and have a great holiday

> > > Kathleen

> > >

> >

>

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>From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...>

>A free T4 of .7 is considered hypo...no matter what the TSH is.

>cindi

Depends on what the free T3 level is. You can live without T4. Can't live

without T3. It's lack of T3 that really makes you hypo, and too much T3 that

makes you hyper. However, I think a decimal point is missing, because the

normal range I show for fT3 is 1.8 to 4.2, so it's 100 times what it should

be, or in different units than it's usually given.

Actually, when taking Armour and cytomel, a relatively low T4 in relation to

T3 would be normal. And that's what this shows. What's the normal range on

your lab, or did you forget a decimal?

Skipper

>

>

> >

> >>

> > 12/13/06 taking 60mg Armour, 10mcg Cytomel, 50mg Iodoral

> > TSH - .42

> > FT3 - 318

> > FT4 - .7

>

>

>

>Iodine

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Kathleen,

Did you make any changes between 8/31/06 and 12/13/06 that might have

affected your lab results, other than increasing the Iodoral and Armour?

Did you start any other meds, change your diet, or change your supplements?

Is it correct that you started on Armour and Cytomel 6 weeks prior to

8/31/06? If not, when?

When people first start on thyroid supplementation, their body decreases the

amount of thyroid it makes endogenously. It's not uncommon for people to

actually feel worse when they start on thyroid if they are maintained at low

doses such as 60 mg. + 10 mg. Cytomel. So it's possible your FT3 and FT4

dropped on 12/13 because your body is shutting down it's own production as

it adjusts to the exogenous supplementation. If that was the case, I would

have thought your TSH would have dropped more. However, TSH can be pretty

meaningless, so I wouldn't rule that possibility out.

The other possibility is that the increase in Iodoral is dropping your FT3

and FT4. We've had some research posted here that says increase in iodine

can drop thyroid hormones, not just TSH. You say your body is cooler now,

less heating up in the day and less night sweats. I'm not sure if that is

good or bad. Less night sweats seems good, less heating up in the day - did

you overheat in the day before? Have you taken your temperature and how has

it changed? It would be a much more accurate indicator than how hot or cool

you feel.

Have you taken an iodine loading test or considered one? Maybe you don't

need to be on 50 mg. at this point. I've read one doctor's recommendation

(Brownstein's?) is 50 mg. Iodoral for 3 months, and then continue with 12.5

mg. Iodoral.

I don't know why you're taking any Cytomel. Your T4 is too low. Even

though T3 is the active hormone, you need T4 as the reserve hormone. You

need something there (T4) for the body to convert (to T3) when it encounters

stress. People usually only need Cytomel when they have trouble converting

T4 to T3. Do you have reason to believe you have trouble converting?

I hope you let us know how your next test results come out. The possibility

of iodine possibly decreasing thyroid hormone needs to be clarified better.

Lynn

> Lynn, I've been taking 60mg Armour for 6 wks, then blood was drawn,

> and from the results Doc increased to 90mg on 12/14, labs were as

> follows:

>

> 8/31/06 taking 45mg Armour, 10mcg Cytomel, 12.5mg Iodoral

> TSH - .44(.40-5.50)

> FT3 376 (230-420)

> FT4 .9 (.8-1.8)

>

> 12/13/06 taking 60mg Armour, 10mcg Cytomel, 50mg Iodoral

> TSH - .42

> FT3 - 318

> FT4 - .7

> Lynn, I've been noticing my body is cooler lately, less heating up

> during the day and less night sweats.

>

> My cortisol level is high in the am,24.9(4.-22.), and low in the pm,

> 4.7(3-17)and just recently started taking a glandular. I'm keeping

> myself at lower doses of Cytomel T3 on purpose to eventually,

> hopefully get off the need of it.

> needed.

> I've had several antibody blood test through several years and all

> are not showing any. I take Inositol purposely for supporting the

> liver.

>

>

> I also agree the jury is still out on the outcome of taking Iodoral.

> It being so individual in its results. You have been most helpful in

> my understanding as I go through this process.

>

> Kathleen

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Skipper, my results are from Quest Diagnostics and for FT3 the range

is 230-420. And my doc prefers it to be in the mid 300's. I also

feel better with it there as well.

Kathleen

> > >

> > >>

> > > 12/13/06 taking 60mg Armour, 10mcg Cytomel, 50mg Iodoral

> > > TSH - .42

> > > FT3 - 318

> > > FT4 - .7

> >

> >

> >

> >Iodine

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Lynn, yes, there are gaps in my information that would help clarify a

lot of your questions. To start I've been on thyroid meds since 03

trying various ones and settled on Synthroid/Cytomel combo. Just

this summer I was able to get switched over to Armour/Cytomel combo.

I immediatly felt better for the change and have been working the

combo to the present scenario. So my blood work on 8/31 is showing

several mths on Armour and Cytomel.

My body temperature is changing due to my reducing the Estradiol.

I'm wanting to reduce it and work with progesterone only if I can and

get on a routine with those two. So as I reduced I am noticing my

body's internal heat reducing as well, hence, less night sweats.

I've done one loading test back in 03 (results were 17 loading, 34

excretion) and tried Iodoral at that time and wasn't able. Since

I've done more research and joined this group and learned even more I

started up the Iodoral again and worked it up to 50mg with no dire

symptoms. This is when I got a positive physical result with the

reduction in neck size.

I'm curious also as to the next blood work I'll be having and you can

bet I'll be asking about the Iodoral influence with my doc who is the

one who recommended it in the first place. So I know he will be

working with me in getting this all balanced.

Thank you Lynn for all your great information. Hope this helps in

clarifying further. Happy Holidays.

Kathleen

>

> Kathleen,

> Did you make any changes between 8/31/06 and 12/13/06 that might

have

> affected your lab results, other than increasing the Iodoral and

Armour?

> Did you start any other meds, change your diet, or change your

supplements?

> Is it correct that you started on Armour and Cytomel 6 weeks prior

to

> 8/31/06? If not, when?

>

> When people first start on thyroid supplementation, their body

decreases the

> amount of thyroid it makes endogenously. It's not uncommon for

people to

> actually feel worse when they start on thyroid if they are

maintained at low

> doses such as 60 mg. + 10 mg. Cytomel. So it's possible your FT3

and FT4

> dropped on 12/13 because your body is shutting down it's own

production as

> it adjusts to the exogenous supplementation. If that was the case,

I would

> have thought your TSH would have dropped more. However, TSH can be

pretty

> meaningless, so I wouldn't rule that possibility out.

>

> The other possibility is that the increase in Iodoral is dropping

your FT3

> and FT4. We've had some research posted here that says increase in

iodine

> can drop thyroid hormones, not just TSH. You say your body is

cooler now,

> less heating up in the day and less night sweats. I'm not sure if

that is

> good or bad. Less night sweats seems good, less heating up in the

day - did

> you overheat in the day before? Have you taken your temperature

and how has

> it changed? It would be a much more accurate indicator than how

hot or cool

> you feel.

>

> Have you taken an iodine loading test or considered one? Maybe you

don't

> need to be on 50 mg. at this point. I've read one doctor's

recommendation

> (Brownstein's?) is 50 mg. Iodoral for 3 months, and then continue

with 12.5

> mg. Iodoral.

>

> I don't know why you're taking any Cytomel. Your T4 is too low.

Even

> though T3 is the active hormone, you need T4 as the reserve

hormone. You

> need something there (T4) for the body to convert (to T3) when it

encounters

> stress. People usually only need Cytomel when they have trouble

converting

> T4 to T3. Do you have reason to believe you have trouble

converting?

>

> I hope you let us know how your next test results come out. The

possibility

> of iodine possibly decreasing thyroid hormone needs to be clarified

better.

>

> Lynn

>

> > Lynn, I've been taking 60mg Armour for 6 wks, then blood was

drawn,

> > and from the results Doc increased to 90mg on 12/14, labs were as

> > follows:

> >

> > 8/31/06 taking 45mg Armour, 10mcg Cytomel, 12.5mg Iodoral

> > TSH - .44(.40-5.50)

> > FT3 376 (230-420)

> > FT4 .9 (.8-1.8)

> >

> > 12/13/06 taking 60mg Armour, 10mcg Cytomel, 50mg Iodoral

> > TSH - .42

> > FT3 - 318

> > FT4 - .7

>

> > Lynn, I've been noticing my body is cooler lately, less heating up

> > during the day and less night sweats.

> >

> > My cortisol level is high in the am,24.9(4.-22.), and low in the

pm,

> > 4.7(3-17)and just recently started taking a glandular. I'm keeping

> > myself at lower doses of Cytomel T3 on purpose to eventually,

> > hopefully get off the need of it.

> > needed.

>

> > I've had several antibody blood test through several years and all

> > are not showing any. I take Inositol purposely for supporting the

> > liver.

> >

> >

> > I also agree the jury is still out on the outcome of taking

Iodoral.

> > It being so individual in its results. You have been most

helpful in

> > my understanding as I go through this process.

> >

> > Kathleen

>

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I'd probably disagree with this...as .77 is generally accepted as a

hypothryoid state. It is true that their body may be converting to

maintain health...but at some point with T4 falling that low, the body

will not be able to do so.

Cindi

>>

> Depends on what the free T3 level is. You can live without T4.

Can't live

> without T3. It's lack of T3 that really makes you hypo

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>From: " kathleen_nick42 " <hanlonk@...>

>Skipper, my results are from Quest Diagnostics and for FT3 the range

>is 230-420. And my doc prefers it to be in the mid 300's. I also

>feel better with it there as well.

>

>Kathleen

It just looks funny because it's stated in different units than I normally

see.

With your regimen I would expect T4 to be low in relation to T3, which it

is. Some people do fine with no T4 in their system at all, as it's not the

active thyroid hormone. But, others say they need T4 to be at certain

levels to feel well, I don't know why. I didn't feel much different whether

on Armour or T3 only, and Armour is a lot cheaper.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

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& source=hmemailtaglinenov06 & FORM=WLMTAG

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>From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...>

>I'd probably disagree with this...as .77 is generally accepted as a

>hypothryoid state. It is true that their body may be converting to

>maintain health...but at some point with T4 falling that low, the body

>will not be able to do so.

>Cindi

You can disagree. Doesn't change whether I'm correct or not.

My wife and Dr. Lowe's patients are maintained on large doses of T3 only.

Their TSH is -0-, their T4 is -0.-, their T3 is astronomical, and yet they

are not hypothyroid.

Someone on Armour will have low T4 in relation to T3.

Someone on Armour and Cytomel will have even lower T4 in relation to T3.

Skipper

>

>

> >>

> > Depends on what the free T3 level is. You can live without T4.

>Can't live

> > without T3. It's lack of T3 that really makes you hypo

>

>

>

>Iodine

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>On 240mg Armour my T4 is tippy top, T3 is over.

That was b4 odoral though.

Gracia

Someone on Armour will have low T4 in relation to T3.Someone on Armour and Cytomel will have even lower T4 in relation to T3.Skipper>

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Kathleen, thanks for the additional information. It seems like you'd been

taking Synthroid/Cytomel/Armour long enough before starting on Iodoral that

the suppressive effective of exogenous thyroid would no longer be a factor

in explaining the drop in FT3 and FT4 between August and December.

Increasing estradiol can cause a drop, but you've reduced it.

I'm thinking more and more that it is the increase in Iodoral that caused

your thyroid hormones to drop.

Does anyone have any other explanation?

Lynn

> > > 8/31/06 taking 45mg Armour, 10mcg Cytomel, 12.5mg Iodoral

> > > TSH - .44(.40-5.50)

> > > FT3 376 (230-420)

> > > FT4 .9 (.8-1.8)

> > >

> > > 12/13/06 taking 60mg Armour, 10mcg Cytomel, 50mg Iodoral

> > > TSH - .42

> > > FT3 - 318

> > > FT4 - .7

> > > Kathleen

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Gosh, I felt a HUGE difference between t3 only and Armour!!! Do you recall

any more what your free levels were when you changed from t3 to Armour?

Amy

Skipper Beers wrote:

I didn't feel much different whether on Armour or T3 only,

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no I don't

I guess I should do it, it's just a hassle.

Gracia

Do you know how your labs changed since Idoral? Thanks.AmyGracia wrote: On 240mg Armour my T4 is tippy top, T3 is over. That was b4 odoral though. Gracia

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FT3 should be in the upper quadrant or over range.

Gracia

Skipper, my results are from Quest Diagnostics and for FT3 the range is 230-420. And my doc prefers it to be in the mid 300's. I also feel better with it there as well.Kathleen> > >> > >>> > > 12/13/06 taking 60mg Armour, 10mcg Cytomel, 50mg Iodoral> > > TSH - .42> > > FT3 - 318> > > FT4 - .7> >> >> >> >Iodine

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You experience could be right for me too. I haven't achieved a high level

of any hormone yet to know what will feel best for me. Do you ever worry

that t3 might ever be too high? What are consequences of going too high?

Don't most people & medical community say we should avoid of going too

high? This is not a judgement question, because I don't know. I've read

that with too high, we need more nutrients as they burn out faster or something

like that.

Amy

Skipper Beers wrote:

I didn't feel much different whether on Armour or T3 only,

On T3 only, my fT3 was 7.3. I had no TSH or T4. Like I say, I didn't feel any better that way. I wasn't hyper in spite of the high T3. But, there was no improvement over Armour.

My wife feels great with the T3 only treatment, and T3 at astronomical levels.

People are not all the same. Some say they need a particular level of T4 to feel good. I have my doubts, but maybe they really do.

Skipper

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  • 3 weeks later...

Kathleen

wrote:

>is adjusting to the

benefits of Iodoral? Would greatly appreciate any

>insight to this as

I want to stay on Iodoral (neck size shrunk after

>starting Iodoral).

I’m kind of hoping that iodine

supplementation is going to make my husband’s neck less jowly. I wish I

had measured it before we began! Does anyone have any stories for me about

myxedmia getting less after just lugols or iodoral, and no thyroid hormone

treatment? Or any advice?

__

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