Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Hi , My son, who is now 18, has very serious behavioral issues and for YEARS, would break his glasses, not because he didn't want them, but just in anger as part of his behaviors. So, like you, we went through MANY pairs! You didn't really say why you have gone through so many pairs...does he break them, hide them, lose them...or were you just thinking a new pair would help him to keep them on? We even tried the flexon (I think that's what they're called) ones where you can twist and bend the frame and it goes right back into place, but they too have their breaking point. Finally, after going through this for so many years, we got him sports glasses. They are not the most attractive I will say, and he has broken a few pairs, but nowhere near what we were experiencing before! If breakage is the issue, you may want to try them...I don't know how small they come, but it may be worth looking into. Do you or your husband wear glasses? If not, maybe you both could get some cheap reading glasses from the dollar tree and wear them, commenting to each other in a positive way about how they help you see and how they look so good when you know that Noah is paying attention. Does he have siblings that wear glasses? You could do the same thing with his siblings. Make it a family affair. I would also double check that his prescription is correct...if it's not, he may not want to wear them.... Just some thoughts....Good luck with it!! Klem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 my son starting wearing them at 3 and i thought i would have a lot of problems; but i decided i would take away his favorite thing if he didn't wear them. You gotta wear your glasses or NO movies. It worked. I thought i would have a hard time but it worked. See what he really likes and take it away. As long as he can understand the consequences, it might work. _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Jsmb7@... Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 12:12 AM Subject: glasses My little boy Noah is 3 1/2 (DS). He has been wearing glasses for about two years and it does not seem to be getting any easier. He was prescribed the glasses because his eye turned in but now he has also become more farsighted. I was hoping the new prescription would make him see the benefit in wearing the glasses but it's just not happening. Sometimes it seems like a full time job trying to keep his glasses on and it is really getting old. He just does not seem to get it. There are times when a?few weeks will go by and he will do fairly well and then all of the sudden he?notices they are on and he takes them off and wants nothing to do with them. I think we have probably had over 10 pair in the past 2 years.?Does anyone have any ideas? Has anyone had a child do this and then later have them finally give in and wear them when they're older? With my other children I could offer rewards or reason with them but he doesn't understand, or he makes me think he doesn't understand.??I am starting to worry that this will go on forever. Thank you in advance. __________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs. <http://www.cs.com> com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 It took Noah (13ds) a few years to get the hang of his glasses. He wasn't that young when he got them...he was 3 or 4 I think. Now he asks for them in the morning if they aren't by his bedside. They make some really sturdy titanium frames now, that you can literally twist and bend in two...I highly recommend them! You will also develop a strange " glasses radar " that will guide you to the strangest places when they go missing! I have found Noah's glasses in the most unbelievable places, and why I even looked there, I have no clue! Keep at it, he'll get better. I'm sure it's the exception, not the rule that some kids never accept their glasses. I know it sounds extreme, but he will also be a candidate for laser surgery one day, and with the advances they are making, it may be available to younger patients in the near future. Karla in Texas glasses > > > My little boy Noah is 3 1/2 (DS). He has been wearing glasses for about > two years and it does not seem to be getting any easier. He was prescribed > the glasses because his eye turned in but now he has also become more > farsighted. I was hoping the new prescription would make him see the > benefit in wearing the glasses but it's just not happening. Sometimes it > seems like a full time job trying to keep his glasses on and it is really > getting old. He just does not seem to get it. There are times when a?few > weeks will go by and he will do fairly well and then all of the sudden > he?notices they are on and he takes them off and wants nothing to do with > them. I think we have probably had over 10 pair in the past 2 years.?Does > anyone have any ideas? Has anyone had a child do this and then later have > them finally give in and wear them when they're older? With my other > children I could offer rewards or reason with them but he doesn't > understand, or he makes me think he doesn't understand.??I am starting to > worry that this will go on forever. Thank you in advance. > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 is now 11 and he started wearing glasses at around 7 I think it was. We have gone trough 4-5 pairs of glasses a year. We try to fond places that have 2 for price of 1 glasses. We always try and have a spare pair too. So that when he did throw or break or loose them, we had back up.......worked until he didnt like the spares. We too have found glasses in odd places- just the other day I found his under 's matress- now I had made his bed 3 times, then the 4 th time they were under the matress........ He will wear them more often than not. We have always let him pick his own frames, so that was not a factor for . Trent and I wear glasses so that wasnt a factor We did need to buy nose bits off ebay as for some strange reason he would eat the nose peices at school and they would cost $5 to replace the 2- so I bought 100 on ebay for $10. Now that they can be replaces very easily he doesnt chew them anymore Having spares helped for us, but it is not always possible to have spares. He does get tired without them, and just this week he has looked after his glasses, as he had to go without them for 8 days after he lost all of the pairs and we had to order new ones. We also have a spot next to the tele where they live when he is not wearing them...........if the other kids find them, they put them away for him. Punishment sometimes works - LOVES to ten pin bowl- well he tossed his glasses away at Mcs once, 4 adults and 6 kids looked everywhere for them - we couldnt find them. So didnt bowl that night- I was ropeable. He looked after his glasses for about 4 weeks then broke the next pair............. All that said he is getting better as be gets older Aussie Leis- mum to 11, Natasha 7, 5 and Liliana 9 months Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement. Henry Ford : Founder of the Ford Motor Company : 30/07/1863 - 07/04/1947 K Gain wrote: > It took Noah (13ds) a few years to get the hang of his glasses. He wasn't > that young when he got them...he was 3 or 4 I think. Now he asks for them > in the morning if they aren't by his bedside. They make some really sturdy > titanium frames now, that you can literally twist and bend in two...I highly > recommend them! You will also develop a strange " glasses radar " that will > guide you to the strangest places when they go missing! I have found Noah's > glasses in the most unbelievable places, and why I even looked there, I have > no clue! Keep at it, he'll get better. I'm sure it's the exception, not > the rule that some kids never accept their glasses. > > I know it sounds extreme, but he will also be a candidate for laser surgery > one day, and with the advances they are making, it may be available to > younger patients in the near future. > > >> My son (ds) will be 11 on 2/27. He has had his glasses since he >> was 2. It does get easier! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 A question for those who are saying that eventually their kid has accepted wearing glasses - Did wearing glasses help with their vision? Friends daughter has always happily worn her glasses as in her case, they helped her see. As a little tacker she would refer to the glasses as her other eyes. Now Trent, would never accept them, the main reason- they didn't help with his vision as such, they where to correct a turn. We tried most of the suggestions mentioned here, including everyone in the family donning a pair, even his teacher would wear her reading glasses while working with him - nothing worked. More curious than anything else. Keep smiling Jan, mother of Trent 24yo w/DS from the LandDownUnder From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Leis Sent: Friday, 20 February 2009 10:25 AM K Gain Cc: Subject: Re: glasses is now 11 and he started wearing glasses at around 7 I think it was. We have gone trough 4-5 pairs of glasses a year. We try to fond places that have 2 for price of 1 glasses. We always try and have a spare pair too. So that when he did throw or break or loose them, we had back up.......worked until he didnt like the spares. We too have found glasses in odd places- just the other day I found his under 's matress- now I had made his bed 3 times, then the 4 th time they were under the matress........ He will wear them more often than not. We have always let him pick his own frames, so that was not a factor for . Trent and I wear glasses so that wasnt a factor We did need to buy nose bits off ebay as for some strange reason he would eat the nose peices at school and they would cost $5 to replace the 2- so I bought 100 on ebay for $10. Now that they can be replaces very easily he doesnt chew them anymore Having spares helped for us, but it is not always possible to have spares. He does get tired without them, and just this week he has looked after his glasses, as he had to go without them for 8 days after he lost all of the pairs and we had to order new ones. We also have a spot next to the tele where they live when he is not wearing them...........if the other kids find them, they put them away for him. Punishment sometimes works - LOVES to ten pin bowl- well he tossed his glasses away at Mcs once, 4 adults and 6 kids looked everywhere for them - we couldnt find them. So didnt bowl that night- I was ropeable. He looked after his glasses for about 4 weeks then broke the next pair............. All that said he is getting better as be gets older Aussie Leis- mum to 11, Natasha 7, 5 and Liliana 9 months Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement. Henry Ford : Founder of the Ford Motor Company : 30/07/1863 - 07/04/1947 K Gain wrote: > It took Noah (13ds) a few years to get the hang of his glasses. He wasn't > that young when he got them...he was 3 or 4 I think. Now he asks for them > in the morning if they aren't by his bedside. They make some really sturdy > titanium frames now, that you can literally twist and bend in two...I highly > recommend them! You will also develop a strange " glasses radar " that will > guide you to the strangest places when they go missing! I have found Noah's > glasses in the most unbelievable places, and why I even looked there, I have > no clue! Keep at it, he'll get better. I'm sure it's the exception, not > the rule that some kids never accept their glasses. > > I know it sounds extreme, but he will also be a candidate for laser surgery > one day, and with the advances they are making, it may be available to > younger patients in the near future. > > >> My son (ds) will be 11 on 2/27. He has had his glasses since he >> was 2. It does get easier! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 s are for vision . I do think that as he got older his vision test became more accurate there fore making a clearer more distinctive difference in how he is seeing now. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Re: glasses is now 11 and he started wearing glasses at around 7 I think it was. We have gone trough 4-5 pairs of glasses a year. We try to fond places that have 2 for price of 1 glasses. We always try and have a spare pair too. So that when he did throw or break or loose them, we had back up.......worked until he didnt like the spares. We too have found glasses in odd places- just the other day I found his under 's matress- now I had made his bed 3 times, then the 4 th time they were under the matress........ He will wear them more often than not. We have always let him pick his own frames, so that was not a factor for . Trent and I wear glasses so that wasnt a factor We did need to buy nose bits off ebay as for some strange reason he would eat the nose peices at school and they would cost $5 to replace the 2- so I bought 100 on ebay for $10. Now that they can be replaces very easily he doesnt chew them anymore Having spares helped for us, but it is not always possible to have spares. He does get tired without them, and just this week he has looked after his glasses, as he had to go without them for 8 days after he lost all of the pairs and we had to order new ones. We also have a spot next to the tele where they live when he is not wearing them...........if the other kids find them, they put them away for him. Punishment sometimes works - LOVES to ten pin bowl- well he tossed his glasses away at Mcs once, 4 adults and 6 kids looked everywhere for them - we couldnt find them. So didnt bowl that night- I was ropeable. He looked after his glasses for about 4 weeks then broke the next pair............. All that said he is getting better as be gets older Aussie Leis- mum to 11, Natasha 7, 5 and Liliana 9 months Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement. Henry Ford : Founder of the Ford Motor Company : 30/07/1863 - 07/04/1947 K Gain wrote: > It took Noah (13ds) a few years to get the hang of his glasses. He wasn't > that young when he got them...he was 3 or 4 I think. Now he asks for them > in the morning if they aren't by his bedside. They make some really sturdy > titanium frames now, that you can literally twist and bend in two...I highly > recommend them! You will also develop a strange " glasses radar " that will > guide you to the strangest places when they go missing! I have found Noah's > glasses in the most unbelievable places, and why I even looked there, I have > no clue! Keep at it, he'll get better. I'm sure it's the exception, not > the rule that some kids never accept their glasses. > > I know it sounds extreme, but he will also be a candidate for laser surgery > one day, and with the advances they are making, it may be available to > younger patients in the near future. > > >> My son (ds) will be 11 on 2/27. He has had his glasses since he >> was 2. It does get easier! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Leis, My has started biting the nose pieces off recently. We have replaced them twice since christmas. He came home with a big scratch on his nose one day. We are lucky sofar as his eye dr is his school principal sister and she also lives across from my in laws ( grad. With my husband also) so everyone knows brandon and they haven't charged us yet. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Re: glasses is now 11 and he started wearing glasses at around 7 I think it was. We have gone trough 4-5 pairs of glasses a year. We try to fond places that have 2 for price of 1 glasses. We always try and have a spare pair too. So that when he did throw or break or loose them, we had back up.......worked until he didnt like the spares. We too have found glasses in odd places- just the other day I found his under 's matress- now I had made his bed 3 times, then the 4 th time they were under the matress........ He will wear them more often than not. We have always let him pick his own frames, so that was not a factor for . Trent and I wear glasses so that wasnt a factor We did need to buy nose bits off ebay as for some strange reason he would eat the nose peices at school and they would cost $5 to replace the 2- so I bought 100 on ebay for $10. Now that they can be replaces very easily he doesnt chew them anymore Having spares helped for us, but it is not always possible to have spares. He does get tired without them, and just this week he has looked after his glasses, as he had to go without them for 8 days after he lost all of the pairs and we had to order new ones. We also have a spot next to the tele where they live when he is not wearing them...........if the other kids find them, they put them away for him. Punishment sometimes works - LOVES to ten pin bowl- well he tossed his glasses away at Mcs once, 4 adults and 6 kids looked everywhere for them - we couldnt find them. So didnt bowl that night- I was ropeable. He looked after his glasses for about 4 weeks then broke the next pair............. All that said he is getting better as be gets older Aussie Leis- mum to 11, Natasha 7, 5 and Liliana 9 months Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement. Henry Ford : Founder of the Ford Motor Company : 30/07/1863 - 07/04/1947 K Gain wrote: > It took Noah (13ds) a few years to get the hang of his glasses. He wasn't > that young when he got them...he was 3 or 4 I think. Now he asks for them > in the morning if they aren't by his bedside. They make some really sturdy > titanium frames now, that you can literally twist and bend in two...I highly > recommend them! You will also develop a strange " glasses radar " that will > guide you to the strangest places when they go missing! I have found Noah's > glasses in the most unbelievable places, and why I even looked there, I have > no clue! Keep at it, he'll get better. I'm sure it's the exception, not > the rule that some kids never accept their glasses. > > I know it sounds extreme, but he will also be a candidate for laser surgery > one day, and with the advances they are making, it may be available to > younger patients in the near future. > > >> My son (ds) will be 11 on 2/27. He has had his glasses since he >> was 2. It does get easier! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 LOL tis amazing what we do to make our kids do things Yes the glasses help BJ- he can play the playstation MUCH better AND for longer with his glasses hehehehehe He can do okay without them, but I can also see okay without mine- my eyes get tired and sore as I have astigmatisms. So does BJ...... Aussie Leis- mum to 11, Natasha 7, 5 and Liliana 9 months Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement. Henry Ford : Founder of the Ford Motor Company : 30/07/1863 - 07/04/1947 Jan Lymer wrote: > A question for those who are saying that eventually their kid has accepted > wearing glasses - > > > > Did wearing glasses help with their vision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for your encouraging words regarding my son Noah and his glasses. I knew I wasn't the only one that has faced the battle with glasses but it is comforting?and reassuring to hear your experiences. I have hope that with time he will learn that they are not a toy or a weapon, but for his benefit. I think I will continue to do my best but maybe chill a little and not be so uptight about it.?Thanks again for the encouragement. ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2010 Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 Have them refitted. If they are wire style, they can be bent to fit around the ear more instead of just straight back. Nose pads can also be tightened. I always make sure before we leave the eye dr. that Caty can bend her head like she's reading then give it a good shake. Boys can also wear the elastic band to keep them on. HTH ---- Heidi <hjjjjhenderson@...> wrote: > My son has to wear his glasses all the time and the keep sliding down his nose any ideas? > Thanks Heidi > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2010 Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 Our guys just don't have enough nose! When was having this problem, I got her a sports strap. Worked great. You can get them at the glasses shop. gem On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Heidi <hjjjjhenderson@...>wrote: > > > My son has to wear his glasses all the time and the keep sliding down his > nose any ideas? > Thanks Heidi > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2010 Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 We kept taking back for glasses adjustments, and they kept adjusting the earpieces, tried different nose-bridge thingies (not sure what they are called, but the things that sit on the nose bridge... there are different kinds, and one works much better for than others.) Also, they loosen up easily, so we seem to go back every 6-8 weeks to get them tightened up.... is old enough now to say " Mom, my glasses are slipping a lot... can we PLEASE go get them fixed? " That is actually part of the reason we changed the place we get her glasses, so we can easily drop by for a quick adjustment... the other place was a half hour away! Our kiddos don't have much at the nose bridge to hold the glasses up...find someone who is willing to try different things to make it work. , mom to (14) (12 DS), and Sammy (10) On 5/4/2010 9:50 AM, Heidi wrote: > > My son has to wear his glasses all the time and the keep sliding down > his nose any ideas? > Thanks Heidi > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2010 Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 Yes...we had the same proble! Go to specs4us.com. This is an opthamologist who is also a mom with a child with DS & gt; She made frames with smaller bridges o stay up on the nose. I must say I have been very pleased with them. I am not always pushing (or telling Micah to) his gasses up on his nose. I will contine to order them from there. Hope this helps.!  Loree glasses  My son has to wear his glasses all the time and the keep sliding down his nose any ideas? Thanks Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2010 Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 YES. Specs4Us. I highly recommend these specs for our children. Alden loves his and they solve all of those problems!!!! Kiersten > >From: Heidi <hjjjjhenderson@...> > group < > >Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 10:50:14 AM >Subject: glasses > > > >> > >My son has to wear his glasses all the time and the keep sliding down his nose any ideas? >>Thanks Heidi > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2010 Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 Lucas has worn glasses for about 12 years, he is soon to be 14. It has been a constant battle keeping them on his face and out of the garbage or where ever else he would toss/hide them. Recently we got him Specs4Us........LOVE THEM!!!! He has bi-focals and does well with these.....kudos to the inventor of these!!! Renae mom of Lucas soon to be 14 w/ds, medulloblastoma(brain cancer), thyroid, and now insulin resistant and of Brady soon to be 16 w/cerebral palsey glasses > > > >> > >My son has to wear his glasses all the time and the keep sliding down his nose any ideas? >>Thanks Heidi > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2010 Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 staples Aussie Leis- mum to 12, Natasha 8 , 6 and Liliana 22 months Better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all _doubt <http://quotes4all.net/quotes/doubt/quotes.html>_. Mark Twain Heidi wrote: > My son has to wear his glasses all the time and the keep sliding down his nose any ideas? > Thanks Heidi > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2010 Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 , We haven't yet found a simple answer to this question at our house. There's one pair of glasses still in the pond across the street...there's one pair that was damaged beyond repair after being buried in the playground gravel at school... I've been to the eye doc for nose piece repair so many times, I know all about the love lives of the girls who work there...something about those moveable plastic pieces that just demands to be broken off.... We have resorted to having him wear his glasses only when he's sitting at the desk doing school work. They are part of his school supplies just like pencils and paper. It's worked fairly well {knocks wood} as far as not losing or breaking glasses although the nose piece is still an occasional issue. We did have good luck getting him to wear the last pair that had transition lenses. He considered them his sun glasses and was more likely to wear them. That really just meant that they got left more places because what kid keeps up with their sunglasses? Good luck. > > A simple question, I'm sure for all you experienced parents, but we can't seem to keep him from breaking up his glasses! We got him the cable ear pieces and he took the rubber off then actually broke one of the ear pieces Friday at school! What are wome tricks that have worked for you all? He has in the past put them down the since drain and actually flushed his last pair at school! It was funny, but we are trying to teach him that if they are bothering him to put them in the case in his backpack. I guess it would help to know he is a wonderful 8 year old miracle! Thanks - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 Feel your pain... Best luck with specs 4 us and mira flex. Jack was hiding them in bushes and we bought bright neon green and yellow nail polish for the inside of the ear area so we could find them. Mira flex are in the bath and pool with him and seem to be scratching less than the specs 4 us. Hope they come up with more choices as new plastics come out. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 Hi, Anyones eyes improved on this diet? I wear cheaters and my eyes are getting worse. Cassandra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 Hi Cassandra, Unfortunately, I have had alot of problems with my eyes since I've been on the diet too. My focus seems to be getting worse and I have a lot of blurred vision which I never had before I started this diet. I experienced immediate relief from blurred vision after taking a sugar pill. I think I may not get enough sugar on this diet? Especially if I have a digestive problem and am not digesting meat appropriately.....but who really knows? Gail > > Hi, > > Anyones eyes improved on this diet? > > I wear cheaters and my eyes are getting worse. > > Cassandra > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 Hi Cassandra, I am surprised your eyes are getting worse. My husband and I have experienced only improvements in our vision on this diet. I believe I posted about it long ago, you can probably find other experiences people have had by searching " vision " or " eyes " or somesuch The eye doctor was always warning me about the nearsightedness associated with being of a certain age (40's according to him) - I don't know if Bee's diet will correct this, but wouldn't that be wonderful? Vicki > > Hi, > > Anyones eyes improved on this diet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 > > Well I just read the last 10 or so Success Stories on Bee's website and a couple people were talking about how much their vision has improved and how they didn't even have to use reading glasses anymore. > > Danny >>> I wear reading glasses (over my contacts), Danny, but I am amazed how they have improved. I was DXd with " dry eyes " and told several years ago i'd have to give up my contacts (note that Bee does agree that we should not wear contacts as they are a foreign object that our bodies are wont to reject...). I used to have to put drops in my eyes and be real mindful of how much time i spent at the computer or even book reading. I no longer need to wear my reading glasses to read the care labels on clothes for laundering. I used to have to wear my sunglasses every time I went outside but noticed this past year, I've worn them a handful of times (and I walked my dogs daily for about 45 min to an hour most days at high noon). Perhaps those who are experiencing worsening of their eyes are going thru some form of detox? , began 03/09/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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