glasses

[Guest guest]

We didn't have a problem with wearing his glasses, but then he's not

tactilely sensitive, or touch sensitive. Can't spell this early in the morning.

Loriann

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/16/00 4:33:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

egroups writes:

<< I told him how we could not keep 's glasses

on his face and that even the school had given up trying. I remember when I

asked the Dr. how could I get to keep his glasses on. He said that if

can " appreciate " good vision, that he would keep them on. I was so

miserable when he didn't " appreciate " his good vision and in other words, he

was too retarded to know the difference. Well, again he said basically the

same thing and I felt that he was in more ways than not saying that he felt

was on the low functioning end and that it wouldn't matter to

whether he had good vision or not. GREAT! I have no choice but to get him

his

glasses and hope for the best. >>

Hi, thought I'd reply. We were told basically the same thing, when Dallas

was about 3. But it's true--if those glasses irritate the child more than

seeing well pleases him, then he is not going to wear them. It is painful to

watch your child refuse glasses, when you know he needs them. It's an

autistic thing; I see Downs kids with glasses frequently.

Upside. I don't know the age of , but children's vision can change. At

a recent vision check, the opthamologist told us Dallas (now 6) doesn't

require glasses. Good luck with this problem.

Zach

[Guest guest]

JJ was to wear glasses for a while. I had to put him in the 'hospital room

hold' in order to get them on. I have 1 picture of him in them, you can see

that is am using lots of energy to hold him down!! But he sure did look

handsome in them.

& Garry, parents of (9 ds), (8 ds/g-tube), JJ (6

ds/autism/celiac), (5 ds), and Esther (3 ds). All adopted.

[Guest guest]

has been wearing glasses since he is 4 years old. I can't tell you how

many pairs of glasses we went through the first year @14 pairs. They were

thrown over the fence, fed to the dog, stamped on, flushed, thrown out the

window. Thank God we had the insurance package and only had to rebuy 3 times

that first year, not having at least a piece of it to prove they were

destroyed. It got better each year of the struggles with them. Now, he will

not leave the house without them and will get so upset if he can't find them.

At last checkup, we were told his eyes have got better and may not need them

in the future, only for reading (Ha Ha) I'll give the eye doctor that one.

I'm afraid I won't be able to take them away now.

(mom to 13 DS/ASD

[Guest guest]

'a vision improved with age too, his vision is now at age 8yrs 20/30

and no longer requires glasses, he did when he was three and we had to use a

strap to hold them on, no real nose structure to hold them up, but by 4 they

stopped the glasses, and we had a few surgeries somewhere in there too and

patching for years, now were all done dince may, just get to leave the eyes

be, it was a lot of work but worth it. shawna.

>From: " Lori " <hsmyangel@...>

>Reply-egroups

><egroups>

>Subject: Re: Re: glasses

>Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 06:17:30 -0000

>

>We didn't have a problem with wearing his glasses, but then he's not

>tactilely sensitive, or touch sensitive. Can't spell this early in the

>morning.

>

>Loriann

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

Rochelle wears glasses with cablebacks and I was wondering if any of your

children wear regular glasses? (no cableback) If so, do you have any

problems with the glasses falling off. I don't want to lose them. But it

would be nice to have regular glasses and I think more comfortable. She

doesn't mess with the glasses unless they are extremely dirty or scratched.

Ok, ok truth be told, she does take them off when she is bored. Usually at

home. I'm thinking about getting those bendable frames too. Any comments as

to what works best? We do replace lenses every 6 months or so because of

scratches. (she bangs her glasses with things)

Diane (mom to Rochelle asd/ds -5)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/21/01 7:32:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,

p_houser37@... writes:

> If anyone has any ideas for me to help with her I would greatly appreciate

>

Pam, don't feel to bad. Rochelle never wore her first set of glasses. (one

whole year) Then she broke them a month after the warrenty ran out. She has

really bad eyes (bifocals) thick as a stick. will wear them eventually

when she realizes they help her. I would just wait like you are doing and try

again in 3 months. That's what I kept doing. They will win if it's a power

struggle. Keep trying. I myself didn't like glasses when I was six or so and

would take them off when I left school. I couldn't see much. Good luck. It

kind of reminds me of potty training. I have to confess you did give me a

laugh. I guess I should count my blessing about this one. I never did think

she would wear the glasses. I did put glasses on SPOT her stuffy and other

dolls.

Diane

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/21/2001 4:22:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,

dben937342@... writes:

> Rochelle wears glasses with cablebacks and I was wondering if any of your

> children wear regular glasses? (no cableback) If so, do you have any

> problems with the glasses falling off. I don't want to lose them. But it

> would be nice to have regular glasses and I think more comfortable. She

> doesn't mess with the glasses unless they are extremely dirty or scratched.

> Ok, ok truth be told, she does take them off when she is bored. Usually at

> home. I'm thinking about getting those bendable frames too. Any comments as

> to what works best? We do replace lenses every 6 months or so because of

> scratches. (she bangs her glasses with things)

Hi Diane,

Zeb wears regular glasses. He does keep them on at school but they drive him

crazy. I think it's a sensory thing. He is always pushing on them and

readjusting them. I have them reshaped and adjusted every month. They don't

slide and fit him well. He refuses to wear them at home. He did flush them

down the school toilet last month. I think he thought they would go away for

good. It's just trial and error.

Charlyne

Mom to Zeb 9 DS/OCD ?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/21/2001 7:32:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,

p_houser37@... writes:

> WILL NOT even let us get near her with her glasses. Her eyes are

> really bad! We have tried everything to get her to wear them. I even had it

> add to her IEP at school.

Hi Pam,

I don't make an issue with Zeb about the glasses. He knows he can't see as

well without them and I make it his choice. He sits right on top of the TV. I

did ask the teachers if the glassses were an issue do not force but enlarge

everything even the computer screen. They have special screens that can be

put on the computer or the fonts can be made larger. The papers can be

enlarged on the copier. They didn't have a problem with that request and life

was easier for everyone. He does wear them more and more at school on his

own. It just takes time.

Charlyne

Mom to Zeb 9 DS/OCD ?

[Guest guest]

Your child wears her glasses??!!

WILL NOT even let us get near her with her glasses. Her eyes are really

bad! We have tried everything to get her to wear them. I even had it add to her

IEP at school. They tried everday to get her to keep them on for at least a

minute. Two of the aides would hold her down while the teacher put them on her

face. Then tehy would hold her arms for about a minute then let go. Guess what

would happen as soon as they let go? Yes! The glasses came off! She has even

broken them a couple of times. Needless to say I put them away and will go back

to them later.

If anyone has any ideas for me to help with her I would greatly appreciate it!

We have tried a few things but you never know when someone else might have a

better idea.

I hope everyone has joyful holidays.

Pam mom to Hannah and identical twins with DS age 6

dben937342@... wrote: Hi everyone,

Rochelle wears glasses with cablebacks and I was wondering if any of your

children wear regular glasses? (no cableback) If so, do you have any

problems with the glasses falling off. I don't want to lose them. But it

would be nice to have regular glasses and I think more comfortable. She

doesn't mess with the glasses unless they are extremely dirty or scratched.

Ok, ok truth be told, she does take them off when she is bored. Usually at

home. I'm thinking about getting those bendable frames too. Any comments as

to what works best? We do replace lenses every 6 months or so because of

scratches. (she bangs her glasses with things)

Diane (mom to Rochelle asd/ds -5)

[Guest guest]

I don't know if this will help, but I found a webstie

about it.

http://www.tsbvi.edu/Outreach/seehear/spring98/glasses.html

=====

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Diane,

Craig's worn glasses since the age of 6 months. He's extremely near

sighted (rx is -15.00). It took years for him to accept the glasses. We

tried the soft straps (he pulled at these and they snapped at his face) ,

cable temples (irriatated his skin), flexible frames (he decided these were

fun to bend into all shapes)...etc. etc. When he was almost 2 we tried

contact lenses; after one day of me learning to put the contact in his eyes,

he decided wearing the glasses was ok!!! The contacts went into storage.

Doctors kept saying " when he realizes the glasses help him see, he'll wear

them. " Well his eyes are SO bad, but he still preferred to go without the

glasses. It really was just a matter of time....lots of time. After a few

years he was fine with wearing them, although many pairs got broken. He used

to throw them during tantrums. Using an optical company that replaced them

free for a year was a huge help. We always had at least 2 or 3 pairs on hand

in case a pair got lost or broken. Here's something to consider though.

When he was older, and fully accepting of the glasses, he got a new pair that

he just refused to wear. We were stumped. Finally took them back to the

optician, and found out they were made incorrectly. They had the PD (pupil

distance) off by several centimeters. This put the prescription part of the

lenses in the wrong place, so they didn't help him see at all. So if there's

one particular pair Rochelle refuses to wear, take them to be checked to be

sure they were made correctly. Craig has worn " regular " glasses for many

years now. Our problem now is that he won't take them off to go to bed. I

have to sneak in when he's asleep and take them off him. Sometimes he

half-awakens and says groggily " glasses on. " It's always something!!!

Bev mom to Craig, 15, Magenis Syndrome

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/22/01 9:58:42 AM Eastern Standard Time,

bfrey97147@... writes:

> Finally took them back to the

> optician, and found out they were made incorrectly. They had the PD (pupil

> distance) off by several centimeters. This put the prescription part of

> the

>

That's interesting, I will keep that in mind. I always worry that I won't

know if the lenses are wrong. You didn't say when your son went to the

regular glasses. Do you happen to remember? Approx.

Diane

[Guest guest]

Pam ,

Just reading & catching up here . My opinion on this issue , this is

definintely a sensory issue . As for now , do not proceed with the

glasses as she has been forced and held to have them on . This has

triggered some negative behavior towards not wanting them on . Yes,

needs them , but the main issue here would try to work around

now on the behavior . Our kids are pretty smart and its just finding

ways to work around it . I know this has happen at that age with

. It just stirs more aggressive behavior . How is she with the

visual pictures ? Maybe a picture of her , next to it a picture of

the glasses and if she is still for a picture with the glasses on ,

another pic . Another suggestion , what is her favorite dessert or

food ? As you try to get her to make a choice on which food item she

would like , show her the glasses , ex. she chose pizza or choc.

pudding , then tell her wear glasses and you could have pizza . Even

if the glasses are on for 5 minutes . She'll start getting the

message of how well she can see and could have a reward also if

allowed while watching her favorite show . Hopefully it'll cut down

the behavior . Do not place the glasses on her , unless she agrees to

wear them for her pudding . What worked for , his favorite

rewards are besides his favorite food items are Disney videos . When

he wanted to watch a movie . I would tell him , " no Tv , glasses

on " . He would get mad , but then he slowly cooperated wearing them

and watched the movie and the trial of the glasses for a good 2

hours . Before we knew it , he realized how important they were . No

bumping into walls . : ) All this was trying to find ways to work

around it because at that age (6) , I was not even aware of the

second label . Now reading & researching it explains it all . This

was our way and hope something helped . Well , even its just to let

you know that you're not alone and we hear ya . Luck with this

issue . Take care .

Irma, 13,DS/ASD

P.S. Hope you could share your identical twins picture , this I would

love to see . Many hugs .

>

> Your child wears her glasses??!!

> WILL NOT even let us get near her with her glasses. Her eyes

are really bad! We have tried everything to get her to wear them. I

even had it add to her IEP at school. They tried everday to get her

to keep them on for at least a minute. Two of the aides would hold

her down while the teacher put them on her face. Then tehy would hold

her arms for about a minute then let go. Guess what would happen as

soon as they let go? Yes! The glasses came off! She has even broken

them a couple of times. Needless to say I put them away and will go

back to them later.

> If anyone has any ideas for me to help with her I would greatly

appreciate it! We have tried a few things but you never know when

someone else might have a better idea.

> I hope everyone has joyful holidays.

> Pam mom to Hannah and identical twins with DS age 6

>

>

[Guest guest]

Irma, Thanks for sharing your experience with the glasses issue. I have tried

this before but it's been awhile. Now that is older I will try it again.

She is much more aware of what is going on now than she was a couple of years

ago.

You are right. Our kids are a lot smarter than we think they are! : )

Pam mom to identical twins age 6 with DS Hannah and ( possible ASD)

mum592001 <ICANFIELD@...> wrote: Pam ,

Just reading & catching up here . My opinion on this issue , this is

definintely a sensory issue . As for now , do not proceed with the

glasses as she has been forced and held to have them on . This has

triggered some negative behavior towards not wanting them on . Yes,

needs them , but the main issue here would try to work around

now on the behavior . Our kids are pretty smart and its just finding

ways to work around it . I know this has happen at that age with

. It just stirs more aggressive behavior . How is she with the

visual pictures ? Maybe a picture of her , next to it a picture of

the glasses and if she is still for a picture with the glasses on ,

another pic . Another suggestion , what is her favorite dessert or

food ? As you try to get her to make a choice on which food item she

would like , show her the glasses , ex. she chose pizza or choc.

pudding , then tell her wear glasses and you could have pizza . Even

if the glasses are on for 5 minutes . She'll start getting the

message of how well she can see and could have a reward also if

allowed while watching her favorite show . Hopefully it'll cut down

the behavior . Do not place the glasses on her , unless she agrees to

wear them for her pudding . What worked for , his favorite

rewards are besides his favorite food items are Disney videos . When

he wanted to watch a movie . I would tell him , " no Tv , glasses

on " . He would get mad , but then he slowly cooperated wearing them

and watched the movie and the trial of the glasses for a good 2

hours . Before we knew it , he realized how important they were . No

bumping into walls . : ) All this was trying to find ways to work

around it because at that age (6) , I was not even aware of the

second label . Now reading & researching it explains it all . This

was our way and hope something helped . Well , even its just to let

you know that you're not alone and we hear ya . Luck with this

issue . Take care .

Irma, 13,DS/ASD

P.S. Hope you could share your identical twins picture , this I would

love to see . Many hugs .

>

> Your child wears her glasses??!!

> WILL NOT even let us get near her with her glasses. Her eyes

are really bad! We have tried everything to get her to wear them. I

even had it add to her IEP at school. They tried everday to get her

to keep them on for at least a minute. Two of the aides would hold

her down while the teacher put them on her face. Then tehy would hold

her arms for about a minute then let go. Guess what would happen as

soon as they let go? Yes! The glasses came off! She has even broken

them a couple of times. Needless to say I put them away and will go

back to them later.

> If anyone has any ideas for me to help with her I would greatly

appreciate it! We have tried a few things but you never know when

someone else might have a better idea.

> I hope everyone has joyful holidays.

> Pam mom to Hannah and identical twins with DS age 6

>

>

--------------------------------------------------

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--------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

>

> Irma, Thanks for sharing your experience with the glasses issue. I

have tried this before but it's been awhile. Now that is older

I will try it again. She is much more aware of what is going on now

than she was a couple of years ago.

> You are right. Our kids are a lot smarter than we think they

are! : )

> Pam mom to identical twins age 6 with DS Hannah and (

possible ASD)

>

>

Pam ,

Your welcome . There is this cute online book , I do not have it on

hand , where you could go directly to it . Here is the long route to

it , if you have not seen it . Enter -

http://members.tripod.com/RSaffran/aba.html -scrolled down to

Advanced then click More Than Words by Fern Sussman , then once you

enter it then click to Sample pages from More Than Words . You are

certainly correct about now that is older she may understand .

Many of our kids need that structure & repetitive routine on a daily

basis for their brains to pick up on how to learn to communicate .

Its a cute book which these strategies you could use to help your

child best . It is written so that you , the parent , can learn how

to turn your child's everyday routines and activities into

opportunities for communication learning . It surely cuts down some

unwanted behavior . : )

Irma, 13,DS/ASD

[Guest guest]

As a special ed teacher I've seen students and I know doctors will usually

tell you this--if the child needs the glasses he will wear them! This isn't

true in all cases--but in many cases if a child wears the glasses and sees

better he's going to want to wear the glasses. If the glasses don't help

than he probably won't want to wear them. Mac wears glasses and I'm still

not sure if sees better with them. It took quite awhile to get him to wear

them, but now he will wear them most of the day. It was a gradual process

of wearing them for a few minutes longer each day. He will still run, more

out of play than anything else, when he sees me coming with his glasses--he

does NOT seek them out on his own so I'm not sure if they really improve his

vision--he seems to see fine without them. However, they have made a huge

difference with his " lazy " eye--without his glasses his L eye almost

immediately turns in--when his glasses are on you never see that. Has

had the glasses for two years and still won't wear them?? I would

wonder then if they really improve his vision. It would seem if they really

did help then by this time he'd be more willing to wear them. Good luck!!

Jill

Re: glasses

> This is a quetion for all parents of children with ds, have any of you had

> problems with a misdiagnose of glasses for your child. The reason that I

am

> asking is that my son's eye doctor has told us that he has needed glasses

> for the last 2 years. Since Tayler who is 3 1/2 now started tealking, he

can

> tell us what things are a great distance as well as up close, The

> prescription that the eye doctor prescribed would say that he is almost

> blind, yet he absolutely hates his glasses and refuses to wear them, he

> takes them off and tries to damage them so that he will not have to wear

> them, so needless to say I don't make him because the repair bills get

> pretty costly. So if anyone could give me some input on this issue I would

> greatly appreciate it as we have another appointment on wednesday of next

> week. Thanks Sherri mom to Tayler 3 1/2 wds and Cierra 2 nds

>

>

>

> Click reply to all for messages to go to the list. Just hit reply for

messages to go to the sender of the message.

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is a quetion for all parents of children with ds, have any of you had

problems with a misdiagnose of glasses for your child. The reason that I am

asking is that my son's eye doctor has told us that he has needed glasses

for the last 2 years. Since Tayler who is 3 1/2 now started tealking, he can

tell us what things are a great distance as well as up close, The

prescription that the eye doctor prescribed would say that he is almost

blind, yet he absolutely hates his glasses and refuses to wear them, he

takes them off and tries to damage them so that he will not have to wear

them, so needless to say I don't make him because the repair bills get

pretty costly. So if anyone could give me some input on this issue I would

greatly appreciate it as we have another appointment on wednesday of next

week. Thanks Sherri mom to Tayler 3 1/2 wds and Cierra 2 nds

[Guest guest]

's glasses have always been all right. He doesn't always wear

them because he doesn't need to, doctor says this is fine.

However I have had a lot of problems with getting glasses right in

recent years. I had 2 pair that gave me a lot of trouble, each time I went

back to the old ones, which were really getting old. The first time they

finally discovered there was a prism in the lens which shouldn't have been

there. So yes, it IS possible they are wrong. Have them checked by a

different doctor, preferably an ophthalmologist. Jessie

[Guest guest]

I would say that if you have questions you should definitely get a second

opinion. Is your son seeing an eye doctor or an opthmologist?

Re: glasses

>This is a quetion for all parents of children with ds, have any of you had

>problems with a misdiagnose of glasses for your child. The reason that I am

>asking is that my son's eye doctor has told us that he has needed glasses

>for the last 2 years. Since Tayler who is 3 1/2 now started tealking, he

can

>tell us what things are a great distance as well as up close, The

>prescription that the eye doctor prescribed would say that he is almost

>blind, yet he absolutely hates his glasses and refuses to wear them, he

>takes them off and tries to damage them so that he will not have to wear

>them, so needless to say I don't make him because the repair bills get

>pretty costly. So if anyone could give me some input on this issue I would

>greatly appreciate it as we have another appointment on wednesday of next

>week. Thanks Sherri mom to Tayler 3 1/2 wds and Cierra 2 nds

>

>

>

>Click reply to all for messages to go to the list. Just hit reply for

messages to go to the sender of the message.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nic was prescribed glasses. Struggled with him to wear them. They were in the

shop being fixed longer than he wore them. When we went back for a check up he

told us he didn't need them. This was AFTER I just spent 300 bucks on a titanium

framed pair thinking it would save me money in the long run. I switched eye DR's

after that.

Di, mom to Jake(19,nda) and 4 (DS)

Pennsylvania

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/7/02 7:42:25 PM Central Standard Time,

sherriwalthers@... writes:

>

> This is a quetion for all parents of children with ds, have any of you had

> problems with a misdiagnose of glasses for your child. The reason that I am

> asking is that my son's eye doctor has told us that he has needed glasses

> for the last 2 years. Since Tayler who is 3 1/2 now started tealking, he

> can

> tell us what things are a great distance as well as up close, The

> prescription that the eye doctor prescribed would say that he is almost

> blind, yet he absolutely hates his glasses and refuses to wear them, he

> takes them off and tries to damage them so that he will not have to wear

> them, so needless to say I don't make him because the repair bills get

> pretty costly. So if anyone could give me some input on this issue I would

> greatly appreciate it as we have another appointment on wednesday of next

> week. Thanks Sherri mom to Tayler 3 1/2 wds and Cierra 2 nds

>

> refused to wear his glasses to the point that the dr. quit

> prescribing them. I doubt it had anything to do with how much they were

> helping rather that he couldn't stand the feeling of anything on his face.

> He is very tactily defensive.

> If you are concerned about the diagnosis find a Pediatric Ophthamologist

> (Children's hosp or specialty clinic can locate one). They are great at

> doing thorough testing. It was one of the things they did before giving up

> on glasses was double check through a thorough exam the accuracy. THey had

> charts with lines and shapes and by where he looks they can tell how far

> off his vision is. I was amazed.

> BTW, I am also near sighted and prefer not to wear my glasses even though I

> know how much I'm missing without them. I only wear them for driving. (my

> refusal had nothing to do with , I didn't have glasses then)

>

> Karyn

[Guest guest]

thanks jessie, i will do all of these things thqt have been suggested to me,

thanks again, sherr

Re: glasses

> 's glasses have always been all right. He doesn't always

wear

> them because he doesn't need to, doctor says this is fine.

> However I have had a lot of problems with getting glasses right in

> recent years. I had 2 pair that gave me a lot of trouble, each time I

went

> back to the old ones, which were really getting old. The first time they

> finally discovered there was a prism in the lens which shouldn't have been

> there. So yes, it IS possible they are wrong. Have them checked by a

> different doctor, preferably an ophthalmologist. Jessie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks di, this seems to be the overall consenses, i think that we will be

changing eye doctors, thanks sherri

Re: glasses

> Nic was prescribed glasses. Struggled with him to wear them. They were in

the shop being fixed longer than he wore them. When we went back for a check

up he told us he didn't need them. This was AFTER I just spent 300 bucks on

a titanium framed pair thinking it would save me money in the long run. I

switched eye DR's after that.

>

> Di, mom to Jake(19,nda) and 4 (DS)

> Pennsylvania

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Tayler does not mind other things on his face, so I don't think that is the

problem, but I am defineately going to get a second opinion, thanks sherri

Re: glasses

> In a message dated 3/7/02 7:42:25 PM Central Standard Time,

> sherriwalthers@... writes:

>

>

> >

> > This is a quetion for all parents of children with ds, have any of you

had

> > problems with a misdiagnose of glasses for your child. The reason that I

am

> > asking is that my son's eye doctor has told us that he has needed

glasses

> > for the last 2 years. Since Tayler who is 3 1/2 now started tealking, he

> > can

> > tell us what things are a great distance as well as up close, The

> > prescription that the eye doctor prescribed would say that he is almost

> > blind, yet he absolutely hates his glasses and refuses to wear them, he

> > takes them off and tries to damage them so that he will not have to wear

> > them, so needless to say I don't make him because the repair bills get

> > pretty costly. So if anyone could give me some input on this issue I

would

> > greatly appreciate it as we have another appointment on wednesday of

next

> > week. Thanks Sherri mom to Tayler 3 1/2 wds and Cierra 2 nds

> >

> > refused to wear his glasses to the point that the dr. quit

> > prescribing them. I doubt it had anything to do with how much they were

> > helping rather that he couldn't stand the feeling of anything on his

face.

> > He is very tactily defensive.

> > If you are concerned about the diagnosis find a Pediatric Ophthamologist

> > (Children's hosp or specialty clinic can locate one). They are great at

> > doing thorough testing. It was one of the things they did before giving

up

> > on glasses was double check through a thorough exam the accuracy. THey

had

> > charts with lines and shapes and by where he looks they can tell how far

> > off his vision is. I was amazed.

> > BTW, I am also near sighted and prefer not to wear my glasses even

though I

> > know how much I'm missing without them. I only wear them for driving.

(my

> > refusal had nothing to do with , I didn't have glasses then)

> >

> > Karyn

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