liver

[Guest guest]

Hi Jodi,

what you had to say was really interesting to me. I have a tendency to run

out and try everything too. But I agree that we need to really check things

out first. since I have had this a short while I feel like I'm swimming in

a sea of " info " and not sure what to latch on to. Plus my Dr sort of acts

like he run any test or write any RX I thought I needed. Not good. I want

him to put some effort into my treatment.

As for all the doctors you mentioned and some of the medication I have read

about on this list, it sounds like Greek to me.

Judi, in southern California

Liver

From: CJCIMAGE@... (JODI CARLSON)

Jane- I think you wanted to know if anyone on the list had any evidence

of liver problems. At the very beginning of my illness, in 1984, when

the GP I was seeing was doing a lot of tests and ruling out stuff, the

one test that was abnormal in the blood work was elevated bilirubin. So

the GP sent me to a liver specialist. The specialist ordered a fasting

test. I had to fast on a certain (low) number of calories for the day

prior to the test, and then go in without eating in the morning for more

blood work. I was so ill then in every way, this almost blew me apart.

I was living alone, and I still do not know how I drove myself over

there to get this bloodwork drawn.

The liver specialist concluded from these test results that I had

Gilbert's syndrome, which is a benign hereditary disease. In this

fasting condition, bilirubin will shoot up even higher if you have this.

Every time I have standard blood work drawn, this high bilirubin still

shows up. I do not show other liver enzymes as elevated, and I have been

tested for liver enzymes now about every 3 months since the

rheumatologist put me on flexeril. He checks liver enzymes before I see

him. Since flexeril stopped working for me, I am not taking it anymore,

so might not be having these checked as regularly now. I wonder now

about the Gilbert's syndrome, and if it could mean something in

connection with these phase 1 and phase 2 detoxificaion profiles that

different people have.

I have been thinking more about the liver now that I have been trying

to learn more about supplements and alternative approaches to integrate

with prescription meds. For myself, I am thinking of finding a doctor

(alternative?) who knows about these liver detox tests. I do not think

any of the doctors I am presently seeing has a connection with Great

Smokies, or would order them. I am coming to believe that prescription

meds are good, and we all need them to function and they relieve

symptoms, but which ones actually do anything to change the underlying

condition itself? I am also going to talk with Dr. Ferre this week about

the Hemex test, and about oral interferon. I do not have much hope she

will order the Hemex test, but I am going to try and see what her

reasoning is. My question is: if you have this hypercoagulable state,

possibly caused by an activated immune system, and you take the heparin

to shut this down, and then maintain on the coumadin, is this really

doing anything for the underlying activated immune state, or is this

another case of a good prescription med protocol to relieve symptoms?

Again, there is nothing wrong with relieving symptoms. We cannot

function without sleep disorder relief, pain relief, etc. But what will

get at the root cause, or causes, of this illness?

I believe this is what Dr. Cheney is going for in all his hypothesizing

and theorizing. I have never seen Dr. Cheney as a patient, and I

certainly do not believe he has any particular answer or magic, but the

guy THINKS. Maybe he is way out in left field, only time will tell.

This is just my humble opinion, but I believe he is not that interested

in mycoplasma, because he does not believe it is the CAUSE of this

illness. I think, if you read his statments carefully on the last CFS

Radio Show that Dr. Mazlen hosts, he stated there that he thinks the

microbial activation (chlamydia pneumonia, mycoplasmya) reported with

this condition in so many of us is part of the re-activation of dormant

and latent things all of us have been exposed to from day one. I think

Cheney is trying to go past the re-activation stuff to get at the root

causes, like, how can we help the body deal with things at a basic level

so these things won't re-activate? Once the body is in this state of

re-activation, how can we shut this down? By throwing all kinds of

things (antibiotics, antivirals, antifungals) at all these myriad of

re-activating organisms? Given all the side effects of these drugs, will

this save our lives or make us worse in the long run? This might not

apply to those newly diagnosed. Probably you have a lot better chance

of this approach working if you have not been sick a long time.

Please do not get me wrong. I am very concerned about all these issues,

and I respect each person's decisions based on their doctor's advice, on

how to deal with them. I, for one, have been tested 3 times for

mycoplasma. The first test was negative, followed by 2 positive tests. I

did antibiotics for a while under Dr. See and felt no different (at

least 3 months). I do not believe for a second that taking long term

antibiotics is going to make me well. I believe that there is something

wrong with my immune system. If I can make it function well, my body

will take care of these organisms just like it keeps most stuff in

check.

I have lived through, what I call, the " mycoplasma hysteria " which

followed in the wake of Dr. Nicolson, Dr. See, and Dr. Vojani's lecures

here in Southern California. Everyone ran out and got tested for

mycoplasma. Most of my friends here in the support group that went on

long term antibiotics are still coming to the support group. They are

not well. I look at mycoplasma as a side issue of this total illness.

One more case where the natural balance of our bodies is out of whack.

Mycoplasma normally live in our bodies, just like different colonies of

yeast live in our guts. I show antibodies to mycoplasma pneumonia. The

mycoplasma incognitus fermentans was testing done by PCR. I think all

these tests are useful to see what we have once had, or what is

re-activated.

I know I only speak for myself when I say I am not jumping on the

bandwagon to treat all these re-activating entities. I think it is not

very medically sound (lay person's ignorance?) to think that we should

have to be on a therapy for years and years in order to clear something

out of our bodies. That just does not make common sense to me. Think

about it. That makes about as much sense to me as taking something, and

when it makes you feel worse, keep on taking it. Whether some of these

organisms have done permanent damage to our immune systems or the

genetic material in our cells is another matter. If they have done

permanent damage, we could take crap for the rest of our lives and

nothing would change, except we would get eventually sicker from side

effects of taking strong drugs that weren't designed to be taken for

years and years. And when our bodies were challenged by a new bacteria,

then we might not be able to find an antibiotic that would help us, and

then we would die.

Well, I think I should give up these late night ruminations. I started

out with a little simple thing about the liver, and went on some kind of

rambling about I don't even know what, or how I got to that pessimistic

conclusion. I guess you can classify me as a gullible skeptic. I listen

to every lecture and hear every idea, and run out and get tested. Try

treatments. Maybe I am actually a just a jaded cynic. Anyway, I

obviously think that something has got to help, or I wouldn't be doing

that, or on this list trying to learn. These are only conclusions I

reached for myself, in my own case. And, who knows, I might change my

mind tomorrow.

Jodi

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[Guest guest]

Hi Jodi,

Thank you for your post. I appreciate hearing how others are trying to put

all the pieces together with this condition. I think we are all struggling

to make sense of it. It certainly is challenging, to say the least. And I

know it gets discouraging...I get discouraged a lot.

I wanted to respond to a few things that you said:

<<<<

you wrote:

I wonder now about the Gilbert's syndrome, and if it could mean something in

connection with these phase 1 and phase 2 detoxification profiles that

different people have.

>>>>>>>>

Maybe your doctor has the answer to that? I think if you were to contact the

specialist that you saw, and let him know that you are trying to understand

how this condition effects your body's ability to detoxify, then he may spend

a few minutes explaining it to you over the phone, rather than having a

separate appt. Unless you are due for an appt.

Regardless of his answer....I think we all realize that our body's ability to

detoxify has been compromised somehow. So this will be a continuing area of

research for me. There must be things we can supplement with, or diet

choices we can make, that will help support the body's efforts to detox.

Since the liver and kidneys are major organs involved in detoxifying. If

these are not working properly, perhaps it will help to try to use the skin

to detox...until we can figure out a way to improve the liver and kidneys

ability to detox.

I am going to my local health club, just to use the sauna. I am finding that

I notice a difference, feeling better, after doing this. I have just started

doing this in the past three months. I started out going intermittently. It

was not easy getting started, but I have tolerated it so well, that I went

three times this past week. As long as I can tolerate it, and I have no

repercussions that I can connect to doing this, I plan on doing this

regularly, unless I learn otherwise.

As a matter of fact, I have started developing a theory, that the problem I

often have had with exercise and relapsing after exercise, may be connected

to this detox issue (among other things). I believe it is true that when we

exercise, we end up with a lot of by products from the metabolic process

floating around inside of us. (Excuse me, if I am a little simplistic..my

grasp of biology could be better...{g}) Perhaps, since we don't always

process things correctly, maybe there are even unusual by products that are

shaped differently, or missing something. This could set off the immune

response, plus the coagulation, and then add to that the fact that the liver

is not allowing us to excrete toxins, and voila...a relapse!

I have always wondered why it is that I " CAN " exercise if I decided to

(although not as well as I used to be able to)...it is usually possible...it

is the aftermath which is more of a problem for me. And strangely, it isn't

always right away either. Sometimes it isn't for 8-12 hours later that I

start having problems. The worst of these episodes always have left me with

less ability to function than before. My conclusion is that damage is

occurring to my body during these relapses. Hence, the reason I try to find

that thin line between too little and too much exercise.

While I am moving and exercising, I often feel pretty good. It occurred to

me that another problem for me was that I couldn't really exercise

aerobically either, so I never work up a sweat. The fact that I sweat so

rarely, I thought might also be slowing down my detoxing ability. After all,

normal people who exercise, usually do it long enough to sweat, and thereby,

help their bodies to get rid of the byproducts produced by exercising. All

in explanation for my reasoning about using the sauna.

<<<<<

you wrote:

For myself, I am thinking of finding a doctor (alternative)? who knows about

these liver detox tests. I do not think any of the doctors I am presently

seeing has a connection with Great Smokies, or would order them.

>>>>>

I am also considering having these tests done, but I am not sure I want to

yet. I am thinking that the test itself might do a little damage to my

liver, and my liver is really bad right now, in my own opinion. I wouldn't

want to risk making it worse. And if I suspect it anyway...then my approach

is to then find out what to do about it and try to do that...so what benefit

would the test be? This approach seems a whole lot easier, than finding a

doctor...lol.

<<<<<

you wrote:

I am also going to talk with Dr. Ferre

>>>>>>

I didn't realize you were a patient of Dr Ferre's...when was the first time

you saw her, and how long has she been treating you? If you have the energy

some time this week, maybe you could write me back channel, what your

experiences with her have been. Have you discussed using HGH with her?

<<<<<

I am also going to talk with Dr. Ferre this week about

the Hemex test, and about oral interferon

>>>>>

I am getting more and more interested in this interferon. I was reading in a

book on aging, that suggests that keeping your zinc level adequate, will help

your body to make its own interferon. Also, that as we age, we have less

interferon. (Of course, I would imagine that PWCs would have less than

normal, and maybe have trouble making it) I will be interested in hearing

more from people who are using the interferon. I know has had success

with this treatment, and a few others are trying it now, correct?

Are there any studies that have been completed yet, with CFIDS patients who

are using this? I also read somewhere this morning...that it is being used

for other medical conditions...hepatitis was one.

On the coagulation of the blood. I find this a fascinating finding that they

have come up with. I have always wondered if I had a problem with

coagulation. Of course my doctor always brushes me off whenever I have

brought the subject up.

For years, I have noticed, that I don't bleed very much. When I cut myself,

especially superficially, I just about have to squeeze the cut to get any

blood out. The only reasons my limited mind could think of for this

happening would be too thick blood, or lack of capillaries. Also, when I

have had blood work done, it has often come back saying that they couldn't

count the platelets, because they were " clumping. " I asked the Dr about

this....they didn't even pick up on this result, nor did they call me to come

back in to repeat it.

Their explanation was that it was a lab error. But this happens to me just

about every time I go. They said that if there really was a problem, I would

be getting clots.

<<<<

if you have this hypercoagulable state, possibly caused by an activated

immune system, and you take the heparin to shut this down, and then maintain

on the coumadin, is this really doing anything for the underlying activated

immune state, or is this another case of a good prescription med protocol to

relieve symptoms?

>>>>>>

I am wondering about this...I realize we must address the coagulation

problem, but I wonder how it can be done, when someone has a liver problem,

and drugs exacerbate that? I have trouble taking a Tylenol.

Also, I have a cousin who had open heart surgery to replace a valve with an

artificial valve, who has been on coumadin for a long time, and it is not an

easy drug to live with. You also have to adjust your diet to avoid certain

foods...which many of them are the healthiest foods you can eat....dark leafy

greens, broccoli, etc.

I am wondering if it is possible to use herbal or dietary resources, to try

to thin out the blood? Or have I missed something?

<<<<<

But what will get at the root cause, or causes, of this illness?

>>>>>

Well...that is a good question, I don't think we have gotten to that point

yet.

<<<<

Dr Cheney..... stated there that he thinks the microbial activation

(chlamydia pneumonia, mycoplasmya) reported with this condition in so many

of us is part of the reactivation of dormant and latent things all of us have

been exposed to from day one.

>>>>

I thought that this was a well accepted conclusion about CFIDS? AS a matter

of fact, I have found that when I go to a traditional medical professional

who knows very little about CFIDS...for a while I was always perplexed why

they seemed to have little concern for the issues that the CFIDS community is

concerned with. In other words, if you tell them you have EBV...they say,

" so?...so does most of the rest of the population " ....if you say you have

HHV6...they say the same thing.

I don't think they see the connection to why we are having problems with

these, more than the general population. But then again, it seems there is

not enough evidence for them, to believe we DO have more problems than the

norm. Why is that? Why do we believe that these infections are behind our

symptoms, but they don't?

It is like the detox issue....why is my best friend able to go out and eat

anything and everything...use foods that are not organic...drink wine and

alcoholic drinks....use dairy, etc. etc...and I can barely tolerate organic,

foods...no dairy....no alcohol....no coffee...no restaurants...etc.?? I

believe she can detox ...and I can't.

<<<<

Most of my friends here in the support group that went on long term

antibiotics are still coming to the support group. They are not well. I look

at mycoplasmya as a side issue of this total illness.

>>>>>

Does anyone see it as the central issue? I know there is at least one person

on long term antibiotics who is doing well...but I have yet to hear anyone

else report that they have done well.

That is another thing that I find difficult about this illness, is the

uncertainty. Uncertainty about everything, but in particularly uncertainty

about what PWCs are finding success with and what they are not.

I wonder if we couldn't establish a webpage, that could serve as a clearing

house, for PWCs to go and report on different treatment protocols? I guess I

am thinking about why we couldn't set up some informal method of doing

studies for ourselves online?

You know, like...we could establish a variety of protocols...establish what

patient profile we were looking for to participate....we could use Dr Bell's

scale to assess disability before hand, and afterward....and have people sign

up to start the protocol and report at different intervals how they are

doing. We could have a selection for people to try. Sort of what is being

done with the persons who have started using the Interferon who are

reporting to the list, only collected on a website that anyone can visit and

get all that information in one place.

<<<<<

Anyway, I obviously think that something has got to help, or I wouldn't be

doing that, or on this list trying to learn. These are only conclusions I

reached for myself, in my own case. And, who knows, I might change my

mind tomorrow.

Jodi

>>>>>

Well...now I have also gone on 'marathon' writing...sorry about that.

I agree with you. We are all here because we think something has got to

help. I can say that I do believe this, from personal experience. I have

had successful results from information that I have learned online. Not a

cure...not to where I want to be....but definitely improvement of symptoms

and an increase in level of function. So, even if that is all I can do...it

is better than doing nothing, and who knows....something we discover tomorrow

may be an even better answer.

Also, I want to add, that someone on the CFSList has a saying that I think

has been true to me. That if you just keep barking up enough trees, you will

get further along. If one thing gives you only 5% improvement, and another

thing gives you 10% improvement...sometimes this can add up to a significant

improvement. Maybe we have to keep our eye on all the loose ends, and not

focus only on one " big bang of a cure. "

Again, sorry to have been so long...promise not to post long posts for a

while.

:-)

jane

[Guest guest]

Jodi and jane wrote:

.....I think we all realize that our body's ability to

>detoxify has been compromised somehow. .

>

>Since the liver and kidneys are major organs involved in detoxifying. If

>these are not working properly, perhaps it will help to try to use the skin

>to detox...until we can figure out a way to improve the liver and kidneys

>ability to detox.

>

>>

>As a matter of fact, I have started developing a theory, that the problem I

>often have had with exercise and relapsing after exercise, may be connected

>to this detox issue (among other things). I believe it is true that when

we

>exercise, we end up with a lot of by products from the metabolic process

>floating around inside of us.

it sounds interesting. in spite of the fact that my blood tests are normal,

I feel that there could be a problem with my liver. I am nauseated very

often and a Dr. who examined my liver said it was " still normal " ... hate

this " still normal " stuff - it means that it may be normal but could be

bad. This detox theory explains many aspects, thanks.

Stania

[Guest guest]

The nutrient that is the most effective for healing the liver is Milk

Thistle.

Kay

preventative measures

>My husband has a disease of his liver, Primary Sclerosing Cholangitis, 10%

>of people with this disease eventually get cancer of the bile ducts.

>We are extremly pro-active with this disease, not only following the advice

>and medication of his liver specialist but seeking outside influence with

>alternatives....right now the disease has slowed its progression, which I

>attribute solely to the alternative measure we have taken.

>I would like to know what he could be taking as a preventative measure to

>ward off that nasty 10% chance he has.

>I would appreciate any information or suggestions you have.

>Thank You,

>Patti

>________________________________________________________________________

>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

>

>

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>

[Guest guest]

Kay,

There is something even easier than that. Lemon.

Use real lemon juice, not concentrate, in dilutions of 9 parts water

to one part lemon juice, and sip 4 oz every 1/2 hour. In one day,

you'll have all the energy that you've ever dreamed of having. Cheap.

Be well,

Lemon clears out waste in the liver, and detoxes it naturally.

> The nutrient that is the most effective for healing the liver is

Milk

> Thistle.

> Kay

> preventative measures

>

>

> >My husband has a disease of his liver, Primary Sclerosing

Cholangitis, 10%

> >of people with this disease eventually get cancer of the bile

ducts.

> >We are extremly pro-active with this disease, not only following

the advice

> >and medication of his liver specialist but seeking outside

influence with

> >alternatives....right now the disease has slowed its progression,

which I

> >attribute solely to the alternative measure we have taken.

> >I would like to know what he could be taking as a preventative

measure to

> >ward off that nasty 10% chance he has.

> >I would appreciate any information or suggestions you have.

> >Thank You,

> >Patti

>

>_____________________________________________________________________

___

> >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at

http://www.hotmail.com

> >

> >

>

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rescue.

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there.

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> >

[Guest guest]

Do you have a website? If so what is it? May I use the things you post

on the web? Thank you.

Joy

[Guest guest]

Dear Joy,

Yes, we have a web site. On some of the products we use for our patients, we

recommend using the following products because we have seen them work for

many problems, not just cancer. A lot of people think that just because we

belong to many marketings that we are just into it for the money or marketing

end. Well, let me correct some thinking. We used to be heavy hitters in

marketing, mostly in gold and other things. We lost our tails because of many

upline crooks, and we don't mess with that anymore. We get into marketing of

products for many reasons. Wholesale is cheaper than retail. We check out all

marketing companies not for their marketing, but for their products. If there

is anything they have that works and our patients and we can use, then we get

in. We prefer to pay wholesale also. We are not into the wholesale/retail

business. We let our patients know where to go and get the products

wholesale. That way they can afford to purchase the products they need. We

belong to many companies. Some for only one product that we've proven works,

but at least it is still wholesale. Our biggest product that has had great

results is in oxygen therapy. Even the medical doctors have to agree. The FDA

has run tests, and they passed, but they said they couldn't make any money

off them, so they would not consider them. Shows where their heart is. If you

are interrested in checking them out, here is the web site:

www.ghtonline.com/6127 . We always want a complete medical background on our

patients, because we are trying to correct the problems, not just the

symptoms. Some symptoms come from different problems, and unless you know the

whole person's medical history and lifestyle, you may be treating the wrong

problems. God bless. Dr. Penny

[Guest guest]

Yay, Dr. Penny. This is exactly what Healthy Choices Research & Education

group does.

Kay Heizer

Re: Re: LIVER

>Dear Joy,

>Yes, we have a web site. On some of the products we use for our patients,

we

>recommend using the following products because we have seen them work for

>many problems, not just cancer. A lot of people think that just because we

>belong to many marketings that we are just into it for the money or

marketing

>end. Well, let me correct some thinking. We used to be heavy hitters in

>marketing, mostly in gold and other things. We lost our tails because of

many

>upline crooks, and we don't mess with that anymore. We get into marketing

of

>products for many reasons. Wholesale is cheaper than retail. We check out

all

>marketing companies not for their marketing, but for their products. If

there

>is anything they have that works and our patients and we can use, then we

get

>in. We prefer to pay wholesale also. We are not into the wholesale/retail

>business. We let our patients know where to go and get the products

>wholesale. That way they can afford to purchase the products they need. We

>belong to many companies. Some for only one product that we've proven

works,

>but at least it is still wholesale. Our biggest product that has had great

>results is in oxygen therapy. Even the medical doctors have to agree. The

FDA

>has run tests, and they passed, but they said they couldn't make any money

>off them, so they would not consider them. Shows where their heart is. If

you

>are interrested in checking them out, here is the web site:

>www.ghtonline.com/6127 . We always want a complete medical background on

our

>patients, because we are trying to correct the problems, not just the

>symptoms. Some symptoms come from different problems, and unless you know

the

>whole person's medical history and lifestyle, you may be treating the wrong

>problems. God bless. Dr. Penny

>

>

>

>Get HUGE info at http://www.cures for cancer.ws, and post your own links there.

Unsubscribe by sending email to cures for cancer-unsubscribeegroups or by

visiting http://www.bobhurt.com/subunsub.mv

>

[Guest guest]

Because toxins accumulate in the livers of animals, too, it is very important

to eat organic livers - livers from animals who were raised on organic food.

Peggy

<< From: " " <clemjk@...>

Subject: Food Nutrition

Hi all,

I was recently searching through a nutrition food database and

discovered that liver is one of the more nutritious meats out there.

Does anyone know if there are any potential risks or concerns

involved in eating chicken or beef liver cooked properly? Thanks

>>

[Guest guest]

And, it makes god sense to stop everything that is tough on the liver,

like alcohol, cooked oils, strong spices, fried foods.

Jim,

Why are strong spices hard on the liver and what spices are you referring

to?

KAT

Angelkat

" What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you are saying..... "

Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Guest guest]

KAt,

Strong spices are strong spices. ?? Chili, BBQ sauce.... any strong

spices. Many spices are irritants, like black & white pepper. Cayenne is

an exception, it is a healing herb, not a spice and not an irritant.

Ginger is another exception.

But, if in doubt, don't eat it. The wrong ones tax the liver. Think of

the liver as the oil filter in your car. You don't want it clogged!

jim

Angelkat wrote:

>

> And, it makes god sense to stop everything that is tough on the liver,

> like alcohol, cooked oils, strong spices, fried foods.

>

> Jim,

> Why are strong spices hard on the liver and what spices are you referring

> to?

>

-----

carpe diem, carpe pucunia, carpe femina. -- Jim Lambert

jlambert@... http://www.entrance.to/madscience

http://www.entrance.to/poetry

[Guest guest]

I used a castor oil pack on liver some months ago, but my liver ached very

much for several hours afterwards. I have sclerosing cholangitis with a

stent in the common bile duct, so I suppose the increased bile flow was

restricted. Maybe it`s not a good idea to do castor oil in my case because

of this??

Greg

liver

> Using a castor oil 'poultice' over the liver overnight will do wonders

> for the liver. It can be left on or replaced for days and weeks on end

> with benefit. Be sure to tape plastic wrap over it. And milk thistle

> will help any liver condition I have heard, and neither it nor the

> castor oil pack can hurt anything. Best wishes, pj

> ps Does anyone know why this is causing the nose to turn red and

> swell? If I don't take my little low power thyroid pill for 2 days,

> then my nose gets red on the end and no one seems to know why. Doc said

> that was just me! Profound diagnosis, huh?

>

>

> OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and

other alternative self-help subjects.

>

> THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

>

> This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here

are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing

information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your

own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to

take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to

hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found

here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher

or health care provider.

>

> You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/18/01 1:50:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

oxyplus writes:

> I'm waking up at 3:ish am. every morning, I'm wanting to

> know how to figure out with daylight saving and every thing,

> is this my liver or my lungs causing me to wake up according

> to the list that was posted. How do I know? I live in

> Oregon. would my time be standard time?

> thanks

> Laurie>>

Laurie,

A few years back I had a severe liver problem which kept me ill for about 9

months and then some to get back to somewhat normal. Every night without fail

at 2 am sharp I used to wake up. It took me a few hours to get back to

sleep. I was being treated by a N.D. at the time and he confirmed that the 2

-3 am wake up is due to liver issues.

I suspect my problem was viral in nature.

One area that did help was castor oil packs. I would read everything I could

on liver support.

Terri

[Guest guest]

Teri,

I think years of abuse has caused mine, especially now that

I am trying to cleanse it might be a bit much so I will be

going very slow, thanks

Laurie

> Laurie,

> A few years back I had a severe liver problem which kept

> me ill for about 9

> months and then some to get back to somewhat normal. Every

> night without fail

> at 2 am sharp I used to wake up. It took me a few hours

> to get back to

> sleep. I was being treated by a N.D. at the time and he

> confirmed that the 2

> -3 am wake up is due to liver issues.

> I suspect my problem was viral in nature.

> One area that did help was castor oil packs. I would read

> everything I could

> on liver support.

> Terri

>

>

[Guest guest]

Please take me off your mailing list. Seriously, I have been bombarded with

e-mail, and I don't like it.

Thank you in advance,

Annoyed

[Guest guest]

Please take me off your mailing list. Seriously, I have been bombarded with

e-mail, and I don't like it.

Thank you in advance,

Annoyed

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Flo was having liver problems and was diagnosed with Hep C. If you are

having problems you, or your doctor, need to contact Dr.R immediately.

He was wonderful in helping diagnose and treat Flo. At first her

doctor thought the problem was MGB related and she needed a reversal

but as it turned out the MGB had nothing to do with it.

I had elevated liver enzymes at three months post-op but it corrected

itself and was only temporary. I had a Hep C test just to make sure

and it came back normal.

I hope this helps and I pray that you are ok.

Best Wishes,

Genz

>

> Hi everyone,this is karen i need to know if anyone is

> having any liver or pancreas problems. Please reply

> asap if possible. THANKS

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

I also have slightly elevated liver enzymes and no one is very concerned

about it. But of course, we are keeping tabs on the levels and I have

bloodwork done every six months also.

>From: " wwmohler " <wwmohler@...>

>Reply-

> " MGB Post OP " < >

>Subject: Liver

>Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 07:39:28 -0500

>

>,

> If you mean elevated liver enzymes, I did. So much so that the Mayo

>Clinic freaked out, had me have a scan and a zillion and one tests and

>finally a liver biopsy. I had written Dr. R about it and he said that it

>was pretty typical to have elevated liver enzymes after a massive amount of

>weight was lost and he wasn't too concerned when I sent him the results.

>Sure enough after I endured all of this Mayo came to the same conclusion.

>They are checking it every six month now but it fluctuates a lot and they

>said it may wax and wane the rest of my life. I know I am not the only one

>as I was so concerned I posted about it and several people chimed in. If

>this is the case try to get them to watch it for a while because that liver

>biopsy isn't any fun.

>

>PS My brother was having the same thing going on about the same time and he

>has not had WLS and has not lost a large amount of weight. I tried to

>convince them it might be hereditary too but they wouldn't listen to that

>either. He ended up having chronic hepatitis but his is caused from

>another reason and is totally unrelated to my elevated liver panel.

>

> in MN

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My liver enzymes are very high according to my pcp, but he ran blood tests to

check for hipotitus infections and I'm fine. Dr. R. says that our enzyme levels

'will' be high caused from wls.

Hope this helps, Trudy

liver

Hi everyone,this is karen i need to know if anyone is

having any liver or pancreas problems. Please reply

asap if possible. THANKS

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

,

Nope not that I know of.

in Ark

[Guest guest]

, Is your brother heavy? I had MGB because I had elevated liver

enzyames. It can be a result of being obese. It is called NASH. My liver is

great now after a 70 pound weight loss.

Kathie

[Guest guest]

I was wondering if anyone knew how often you should get live biopsys?

have been off treatment since March of 2001, and how often should you get

your viral load done or maybe one shouldn't even worry about it if they are

feeling okay?

Decided not to go on the new peg interferon the other combo about did me in,

Am feeling okay , am on Prozac which is helping with mood, joints ache a lot

but what else is new huh everyone???

1 B enzymes were checked and haven't risen much at all in 1 year so that is

good.

Miss everyone as I don't get on as often as I should and then have to really

read to catch up but still think of everyone often.

Hope everyone has great holidays. Good to see you back on Tat

Allley thanks for th e pics of your Thankgiving holiday, I did check those

out, hope the melanoma is taken care of finally.

Have been working a lot as my place of employment is leaving in June so

will be out of a job, and looking I guess as lots of others will be doing.

Am thankful am feeling okay though and enjoy hearing from everyone. thanks

for the tradtion Willem and remember we will all be with you in spirit.

Claudine Congratulations, and you are going to deliver your grandbaby how

special!! well alll better get going and talk to everyone soon

Suzy

_________________________________________________________________

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74 & SU=

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[Guest guest]

I was wondering if anyone knew how often you should get live biopsys?

have been off treatment since March of 2001, and how often should you get

your viral load done or maybe one shouldn't even worry about it if they are

feeling okay?

Decided not to go on the new peg interferon the other combo about did me in,

Am feeling okay , am on Prozac which is helping with mood, joints ache a lot

but what else is new huh everyone???

1 B enzymes were checked and haven't risen much at all in 1 year so that is

good.

Miss everyone as I don't get on as often as I should and then have to really

read to catch up but still think of everyone often.

Hope everyone has great holidays. Good to see you back on Tat

Allley thanks for th e pics of your Thankgiving holiday, I did check those

out, hope the melanoma is taken care of finally.

Have been working a lot as my place of employment is leaving in June so

will be out of a job, and looking I guess as lots of others will be doing.

Am thankful am feeling okay though and enjoy hearing from everyone. thanks

for the tradtion Willem and remember we will all be with you in spirit.

Claudine Congratulations, and you are going to deliver your grandbaby how

special!! well alll better get going and talk to everyone soon

Suzy

_________________________________________________________________

Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 3 months FREE*.

http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail & xAPID=42 & PS=47575 & PI=7324 & DI=74\

74 & SU=

http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg & HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_3mf

[Guest guest]

fir program liver same source used by many major suppliment companys ...i did

web search on it when issues came up.....2 tiered 2 do it again...think

solgar 2 of companys

[Guest guest]

,

I am taking an herb called Chanca Piedra. You can read about it here.

http://www.rain-tree.com/chanca.htm

Jeanne

Message: 19

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:09:11 -0000

From: " dickpopey " <dickpope@...>

Subject: kidney stone

Hi Group, I am in the process of passing a kidney stone and wondered

if anyone kows anything that will disolve it?

Thanks,