vaccinations

May 14, 2004

Sara,

Thanks for the link. What exactly do you mean by,

" It makes sense to me (as with anything) that one has to have a plan, and go

further by documentation. That way there can't be any (grounded) accusation

of child neglect for " forgetting " to take the child in for vaccinations. "

Pardon my ignorance,

Therese

vaccinations

>

> My daughter is " due " for her 5 year old vaccinations. I had given

> her all of the " normal " shots in the past without thinking- well I

> was hesitating on the chicken pox and the dr gave it to her anyways-

> but now I'm not so keen on the idea. Is there any problem with

> being " half " vaccinated?

>

May 14, 2004

Therese,

You made me think a bit more...thanks! Sometimes I need to actually talk

through it then I'm more articulate then.

My point was this: I've heard of parents being charged with or accused of

child neglect for not taking their child/children in for vaccinations. They got

in trouble for appearing to " overlook " this, when all parents are reminded

constantly of their responsibility in getting their kids the shots. (We've all

heard about pregnant females being charged with child abuse and even babies

taken away at delivery for using drugs during pregnancy.) So I want to make it

clear that I thought about it all very carefully, and considered all pros and

cons and eventually decided against vaccinations. I'm sure I must document this

somewhere so it doesn't ever appear that I " forgot " or " overlooked " something

important concerning my children's wellbeing. But I really never want to be of

the " in your face " style or draw undue attention.

Do I file my plan with the pediatrician? He might call me in to the

authorities then! Ack. That is what I mean by putting our heads together. I

want to be in the law, but I don't want to be accused of " forgetting " or

" overlooking " my children's health. Nev-ahhhh! ;-)

Hope this helps?

Sara

Sara,

Thanks for the link. What exactly do you mean by,

" It makes sense to me (as with anything) that one has to have a plan, and go

further by documentation. That way there can't be any (grounded) accusation

of child neglect for " forgetting " to take the child in for vaccinations. "

Pardon my ignorance,

Therese

May 14, 2004

Besides the mercury (Thimerosal), are there other negative effects from

vaccines other than putting dead or live organisms in our bodies, that need

attention? The reason I ask is as a nurse, I purposely refused to read

about the negative effects of vaccines because I had to give them to kids or

lose my job. At the time I needed the job. I am no longer working there

and will be reading more on the subject. At the time, I was discussing my

situation with Dr. Tschetter, DDS, and he told me that they were going to

take the Thimerosal out of vaccines but in the meantime, they had lots of

vaccines left over and were begging to please be allowed to use them up

first. Dr. Tschedder told me to look at the label to make sure there was no

Thimerosal in the batch. Since they were granted that permission, I was

watching the vaccines when the arrived to see if they had Thimerosal on the

label and they did not. I assumed that I had received a newer batch and

never did see it on the label after that.

Re: vaccinations

> Please forward this information to others you know who are interested in

> vaccine safety.

> -

> Neurodevelopmental Damage from Mercury in Vaccines

> -

> A public presentation by Dr. Mark Geier & Geier

> Tuesday, May 18, 2004

> 7-9:30 p.m.

> Hilton Hotel Minneapolis North

> 2200 Freeway Boulevard

> Intersection of Highway 694 & Shingle Creek Parkway

> Brooklyn Park, Minnesota 55430

> -

> Meet two leading genetic researchers whose research shows that children

> given mercury in vaccines are statistically more likely to develop

> neurodevelopmental disorders like ADD and autism.

> -

> The Geiers have published more than 30 peer-reviewed journal articles on

> mercury toxicity, and investigated hundreds more.

> Come learn about the growing number of scientific studies linking

> mercury (Thimerosal) in vaccines to neurological damage in children.

> All are invited to attend - $10 free will donation.

> -

> To preregister, contact the Minnesota Natural Health Coalition

> (651) 322-4542 or mnhc1@...

> -

> Sponsored by:

> the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons,

> the Autism Resource Network,

> The Autism Autoimmunity Project (TAAP)-Minnesota Chapter,

> Biological Education for Autism Awareness-Minnesota (BEAT-MN),

> Dental Amalgam Mercury Syndrome (DAMS),

> Environmental Association for Great Lakes Education

> Minnesota Association of Naturopathic Physicians

> Minnesota Birth Network

> Minnesota Children's Health and Environmental Coalition

> Minnesota Natural Health Coalition,

> National Autism Association,

> Vaccine Awareness Minnesota,

> Women's Cancer Resource Center

> and concerned parents.

> -

> Best regards,

> Jerri

> Minnesota Natural Health Coalition

> 651 688 6515

> www.minnesotanaturalhealth.org

>

May 14, 2004

From what I understand, you may turn in an exemption form in lew of a

vaccination form for school.(in Minnesota at least)

There is a support group for parents who decide against some or all

vaccinations. It meets the first Monday (evening) of

each month. Let me know if you want more info.

There are also some websites like this.

http://www.vaccineinfo.net/

http://www.thinktwice.com/

Therese

Re: vaccinations

> Therese,

> You made me think a bit more...thanks! Sometimes I need to actually

talk through it then I'm more articulate then.

> My point was this: I've heard of parents being charged with or accused

of child neglect for not taking their child/children in for vaccinations.

They got in trouble for appearing to " overlook " this, when all parents are

reminded constantly of their responsibility in getting their kids the shots.

(We've all heard about pregnant females being charged with child abuse and

even babies taken away at delivery for using drugs during pregnancy.) So I

want to make it clear that I thought about it all very carefully, and

considered all pros and cons and eventually decided against vaccinations.

I'm sure I must document this somewhere so it doesn't ever appear that I

" forgot " or " overlooked " something important concerning my children's

wellbeing. But I really never want to be of the " in your face " style or

draw undue attention.

> Do I file my plan with the pediatrician? He might call me in to the

authorities then! Ack. That is what I mean by putting our heads together.

I want to be in the law, but I don't want to be accused of " forgetting " or

" overlooking " my children's health. Nev-ahhhh! ;-)

> Hope this helps?

> Sara

> Sara,

>

> Thanks for the link. What exactly do you mean by,

> " It makes sense to me (as with anything) that one has to have a plan,

and go

> further by documentation. That way there can't be any (grounded)

accusation

> of child neglect for " forgetting " to take the child in for

vaccinations. "

>

> Pardon my ignorance,

> Therese

>

May 14, 2004

I think that we've decided not to vaccinate, but I don't know if

there are any " good " individual vaccines that we might make an

exception for.

Since we're homeschooling our daughter I am not concerned about

dealing with a school official harassing us. I'm not planning on

saying anything to our extended family (they already think we're nuts

for *gasp* homeschooling and drinking *gasp*gasp* raw milk!) and

there's no reason for it to come up in conversation. I think the Dr.

will be the biggest hassle. But, I'm also wondering if there is any

reason to take my DD in for a checkup. She's in good health and I

have no concerns about anything developmental. She hasn't seen a Dr.

in several years.

When this thread originally started someone said that you should

get the old vaccines " undone " , I believe with something homeopathic.

I'm still not sure why that should be done since it's been about 3

years-I think- since she got her last vaccination.

Thanks everyone for the interesting links.

Lynn

May 15, 2004

I am mad! Now the CDC is officially recommending infants up to 23 months get

flu shots! See the info here....

http://www.mercola.com/2004/may/15/flu_vaccine_children.htm

My concerns: 1) What next? Anthrax shots for already over vaccinated children?

The list of recommended/mandatory vaccinations will never get shorter, but

longer! 2) One vaccine, the Hep B, now is mercury free. But not all the others

are mercury free! People don't always know that.

Sara

May 15, 2004

You are right, Therese. School agers can have a exemption form. But what about

those not in school yet, like my 2 year old? That's one sticking point I have.

Thanks for the links- I will check into them!

Sara

From what I understand, you may turn in an exemption form in lew of a

vaccination form for school.(in Minnesota at least)

There is a support group for parents who decide against some or all

vaccinations. It meets the first Monday (evening) of

each month. Let me know if you want more info.

There are also some websites like this.

http://www.vaccineinfo.net/

http://www.thinktwice.com/

September 11, 2004

Thank you, Irene. That is very interesting and just what I was looking for.

What is FIP and FIV?

Could you explain " BAsically that's what cancer is, that's what allergies are,

that's

what arthritis is, that's what AIDS is, and so on. " a little more?

Vaccinations

Bumpas wrote:

> Does anyone have any information or opinions about vaccinations and other

vet recommended meds for dogs and cats (rabies, distemper, bordatella, feline

leukemia, heartworm, etc)?

>

> This isn't BTD related, but there has been quite a bit of talk about

cats..........

Dear ,

I have infromation and opinion and back-up for it :-))

Essentially - If you want your cats and dogs to be subject to serious

chronic diseases like cancer, FIP, FeLV, arthritis, asthma, allergies,

fibromyalgia, FIP and others, then you vaccinate them.

Turns out vaccinations that are designed to prevent acute disease, do so

much damage to the immune system by skewing it to the Th-2 side and away

from the Th-1 side, that they directly predispose chronic disease.

(In people as well as pets.)

" The Immune system " is a correct term in that it is an entire system of

activities and not just one activity area. There are multiple

subsections with different organs in charge (bone marrow, thymus,

spleen, lymph for example) and each aspect is involved in the making of

different " cytokines " . It is a very complex system, the immune system,

and when " it " is either blocked or stimulated - that may involve a small

section being stimulated out of proportion to the rest (as with

vaccines) - or the entire system being blocked (as with steroids)

blocking the part you want blocked as well as all the rest.

Examples of cytokines are interferon, various interleukins, and tumour

necrosis factor alpha (TNF-alpha used to fight tumour cells.) There are

dozens of them each with specific functions, and they have all manner of

interactions as well as direct jobs to do.

So the cytokines trigger various immune system events to use

different defence mechanisms.

Overall there are two main categories of cytokines:

Th-1 helper cell lymphocytes are associated with cytokines that help

" cellular immunity " , and are made in the thymus, spleen and lymph - and

these engulf problems at the site where they are discovered. It's

considered a first line of defence, and occurs locally wherever the

problem is found using circulating defence in the blood system. Th-1

cytokines are involved in destroying cancer cells where they find them,

allergens where they find them, viruses where they find them etc.

They are also responsible for determining whether there are too many

invaders for the Th-1 system to handle. Interferon is one of the TH-1

cytokines with this task of giving feedback to the TH-2 system if the

TH-1 system is overwhelmed or *appears* to be overwhelmed (such as if

the thymus, lymph or spleen - especially the thymus - is underactive or

damaged.)

The Th-2 side of the immune system involved cytokines associated with

TH-2-helper lymphocyte cells from the bone marrow to induce production

of antibodies. Antibodies are called in by interferon if the TH-1 system

is not up to the job. If the thymus is healthy, they will only call in

antibodies when they are really needed. But if the thymus is damaged, or

if the antibody system has been seriously over stimulated and is over

represented in relation to the TH-1 system, they will call in antibodies

for every little minor problem, causing an auto-immune response and

hence the diseases of cancer, asthma, allergy, arthritis, fibromyalgia,

AIDS, FIP, FIV, and the list goes on - are predisposed.

When we get an illness caused by infection with bacteria or viruses,

these invaders arrive slowly, and our TH-2 systems will be called in if

there are enough to worry about, and will make specific antibodies in

the bone marrow to cancel out the invaders. The memory of how to make

those specific antibodies stays in the TH-2 memory.

When we use vaccinations, we bombard the Th-2 system with a HUGE

overload of organisms all at once. It basically goes into shock, shuts

down the thymus and TH-1 system and puts every bit of energy it can find

into increasing the Th-2 response with increased activity capability, so

as to make antibodies for this massive overload of organisms that

arrived all at the same time.

So basically the TH-2 system is over stimulated, and the TH-1 system

is suppressed, and we say that " the immune system is skewed to TH-2 " .

VAccination skew the immune system to TH-2 side. This hugely out of

proportion TH-2 response that has now been artificially set up, will

over respond not just to the flu virus or whatever was vaccinated - but

will be called in WAY too early for chronic disease issues that would

normally have been taken care of by the TH-1 system - but that system is

now a puny shadow of what it should have been - and its cytokines call

in the antibody troops way too soon and the response is way too much -

and so there are too many antibodies and they damage the body - called

an auto-immune attack.

BAsically that's what cancer is, that's what allergies are, that's

what arthritis is, that's what AIDS is, and so on.

The specific type of autoimmune attack depends on what specific

ratios of Th-2 cytokines are too prevalent, and what specific

Th-1 cytokine ratios are low and how, and also on what other triggers

there may be. For example in cat AIDS or FIP the virus will trigger the

auto-immune activity and enhance it.

So every single vaccine you use, increases the TH-2 skewing of the

immune system, and the predisposition to these nasty chronic diseases.

It is easier in most cases to cure the individual of the acute disease,

than to cure them of the later chronic disease. Besides vaccines do not

always prevent the disease as the antibodies need to be too specific.

In those countries where homeopathy is the main health care system, and

for people who know homeopathy here, there is a better system.

Homeopathic nosodes for specific diseases, are used to increase

resistance to the acute diseases. What this does is not to build

antibodies to diseases, but it enables the body to resist " catching " the

disease in the first place by building up resistance to the specific

symptoms caused by the disease. What's nice about this is that it is a

non-specific defence. In other words if you use a nosode for flu, it

helps resistance to all varieties of flu that cause similar symptoms -

not just that year's strain.

My own cats do not get vaccinated and I have never ever had a

chronic disease among them - for 40 years and a few hundred cats.

Instead I keep the homeopathic nosodes for feline diseases on hand, and

I use them at the first sign of a problem. For example, one sneeze, one

dose. I seldom need a second dose, and I have not seen a sneeze in my

current 16 cats for 5 years. I also give them nosodes at birth,

according to a protocol for building resistance.

You can actually use nosodes at birth for kittens born to an

actively infected mother, and never see a symptom in any kitten/pup. I

did that a few years back when all my cats got bordetella bronchiseptica

which I must have brought home from the vet clinic where I consulted in

1998.

That was before there was a homeopathic nosode for it. This is a killer

disease in cats, and being a breeder my cats were very susceptible as I

had kittens. The death rate in cats for this disease is 100% for kittens

under 6 months and 50% for adults. It is a silent pneumonia type

infection with a very occasional hacking cough that sounds like a

hairball hack that just won't stop but has no hairball.

It was breeding season and I lost two litters of kittens born a day

apart, my first ever loss of an entire litter and I've been delivering

kittens since I was 7. I made a nosode and later found a commercial one

had also just been made - and gave that to the third litter with a sick

mother (turns out all my cats had caught it from me and I had it myself)

- and to the mother and to myself - and that litter was fine, never had

a symptom. The mother was well in a couple weeks, and suckled the

kittens throughout the contagious infection period.

Currently my policy is never to use vaccines due tot he TH-2 skewing

they cause. When I am forced to use them as when a kitten is flown to a

new owner and has to have rabies vaccination - I use the rabies nosode

before and after the vaccine for the week of vaccination - and that will

prevent the skewing and also any adverse reactions to vaccine.

By the way - there are worse ways to skew the immune system to Th-2.

A single steroid shot of cortisone, prednisone, dexamethosone,

depo-medrol etc type steroids, will destroy thymus function in an animal

by 90%!!!!!!!

Now that is a sure way to court disaster from chronic disease.

These steroids shut down the ENTIRE immune system, especially damaging

the TH-1 (almost irreversibly - it is VERY hard to rebuild a missing

thymus activity) they do not just reduce the Th-2 inflammatory response

with antibodies - which is the excuse for their use.

Antibiotics and other power chemicals also shock the TH-2 into over

response against the toxins causing Th-1 reduced response and skewing.

So there's why vaccines are plain dangerous with reasons.

by the way the scientific community has been warning about vaccine

danger since 1965 research proved the problems of TH-1 to tH-2 skewing

by them - but the drug manufacturers who make the vaccines do all they

can to squash the knowledge and to promote the vaccines directly to vets

etc. they and not the scientific community - instigated this " annual "

vaccination for pets idea.

Of course a vaccination in a pet lasts a lifetime same as in humans, and

does more than enough damage the first time. In fact a second vaccine of

the same substance - is especially damaging compared with damage from

something that does not already have too many antibodies ready to go.

the antibody titer to prevent disease is extremely low. A titer of 0.5

is considered plenty high enough for example. After a single vaccination

of rabies in a cat - the titer is about 5.6 which is more than ten times

what is needed. It stays that way. My eleven year old cat was vaccinated

once at 3 months of age for rabies. Her titer at age 11 was 4.6 - there

is no way it will lower below 0.5 in her lifetime.

If she had been vaccinated at 4 months instead of 3 months she would

probably still have a 5.6 titer. The immune system in cats is almost

mature at 3 months, and only fully mature at 4 months. Any vaccination

before three months destroys the thymus without doing any antibody work

as the system has not fully developed and it is highly dependent on

thymus alone at that stage.

This is why you find kittens in shelters who are vaccinated way too

young, always get sick from the vaccine. Their TH-1 system is totally

overwhelmed and wiped out just when it is most needed, and the TH-2

system is not able to be fully active yet. Next they are pumped full of

antibiotics for the diseases of the vaccines that are caused instead of

prevented, and they are dead in the water, or if they survive their

chances of FIP are through the roof and they die of it 4 to 6 months

later when they are conveniently out of the shelter's hands. The link is

not made between the vaccines kittens get (any vaccines) and FIP, but

it's there in 100% of FIP cases in kittens. (I happen to specialize in FIP.)

Cats who get FeLV have invariably had vaccine damage form FeLV -

it's one that does worse damage than most vaccines as FeLV is itself a

chronic disease - so it skews the system worse than an acute disease

vaccine.

Cats who get FIP vaccine, have FIP ready to go into high gear at the

first sign of a problem instead of having any thymus resistance

activity. In FIP it is auto-antibodies that kill the cat, not the virus

- so a vaccine makes sure the antibodies can be made faster to kill

faster. How unethical is that! Most but not all vets have smartened up

about the FIP vaccine at least.

Vaccinations for pets are one of the most evil schemes to make money at

the cost of health of pets, ever invented. Feel free to quote me on

that. There's more than enough scientific backing to prove it.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

September 11, 2004

I've tried natural animal care groups, but I'm getting better information from

Irene. What about heart worm tests and meds? Any info on that?