vaccinations

[Guest guest]

At 05:55 PM 10/30/99 -0400, you wrote:

>From: Schweitzer <schweit2@...>

>

>, I don't know quite how to respond to your charge that I must be

>totally ignorant because I am not a devotee of a particular book that

>you have read.

I did not say that and I will clarify my concern below. Now you are starting

to make it personal, and that is not a valid argument.

>

>Vaccines were never intended to " cure " anything.

O.K., we may have some common ground here.

But that does

>not mean that all " progress " is bad, either.

I agree. One of my favorite inventions is the vegetable juicer. By the way,

canning foods is bad; they are not fresh and put metals in the food.

>

>Whether vaccines are the answer to good health everywhere, every time,

>is not the subject. The subject is US, which means western culture, and

>a history of disease in western culture in the past millenium.

I think this is my main concern, with you seeming to generalize from the

limited experience of western and especially American history.

I personally have my doubts as to these " diseease-free

>societies " (write me about them backchannel if you want)

I would suggest reading Weston Price's " Nutrition and Physical

Degeneration. " He uses cross-cultural comparisons with some history,

physical anthropology and clinical experience. The evidence about what

constitutes good nutrition contradicts many current assumptions. The lessons

have been confirmed to apply to an American context by Sally Fallon and

Aajonus Vonderplanitz, separately, and the dozens of people I know who are

doing it.

>If there is a theory out there that vaccines are absolutely useless,

>well -- it's still a theory. You can draw YOUR conclusions, but leave

>me free to draw mine.

Let's draw conclusions based on the all the evidence points of views,

including that of Neil Z. on immunizations.

>

>And once again, I think we have wandered far from the intent of this

>group.

>

The issue to me is whether we are identifying the causes of chronic fatigue.

My point is that the dominant theory is germ theory, which has excluded

considering other causes, especially, toxic overload and nutrition, about

which there is much evidence if you know where to look. There is also a

strong bias toward drug solutions which have yielded little result. Even if

one excepts germ theory, one could still pursue natural means like herbs and

garlic, which are rarely discussed on this list. There is another current in

biology that finds many symbiotic relations with other organisms, and I sent

just one example of that. Maybe the emphasis shouldn't be on going to war

against nature, and maybe we need to identify that as a bias. You may agree

with some of this, I don't know.

I know that we all want to get better and I am just presenting some options

here.

Sincerely, Hess

>mailto:schweit2@...

>

>>This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Corey.. personally I think it is very important to be vaccinated. If you

have chronic hep c and contract another hep, it could be very very serious.

Please think seriously about getting the proper vaccinations.

alley/

ICQ 12631861

alleypat@... <mailto:alleypat@...>

http://www.mailbonus.com/index.cfm?ref=alleypatflash (DOT) net

[Guest guest]

Does anyone know of a good Dr in Illinois? My GI doc in Springfield IL is

useless to me. I hoinestly believe I know more about HCV than he does.

Being a nurse, I have pretty much told him which blood tests I want to have

done. Otherwise, he would not have done any. He says, its just an added

expense to the patient. I am fortunate to have health insurance to pay for

mine. So, I would like to find a doc with experience with HCV in IL. Anyone

with any info, please let me know.

Thanks,

Amy

[Guest guest]

Does anyone know of a good Dr in Illinois? My GI doc in Springfield IL is

useless to me. I hoinestly believe I know more about HCV than he does.

Being a nurse, I have pretty much told him which blood tests I want to have

done. Otherwise, he would not have done any. He says, its just an added

expense to the patient. I am fortunate to have health insurance to pay for

mine. So, I would like to find a doc with experience with HCV in IL. Anyone

with any info, please let me know.

Thanks,

Amy

[Guest guest]

My six year old has had extremely high fevers from MMR and DPTs in the past

(107 degree for three days). Her pediatrician wasn't impressed, but her

allergist wrote her an exemption due to the state of her health (she has had

hi allergies, allergic to ant bites, etc. and we didn't want to add anything

else to the mix that would further lower her resistance to infection). He

stated she was under doctor's care and due to her allergies she could not

take the vacinations.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

The adverse event rate for Hep B is fairly high, despite claims to the

contrary. See testimony of Bonnie Dunbar abd Barbara Loe Fisher and the

May 1999 hearing of Cong Burton's committe on govt reform on vaccines.

I advise my patients with suspected immune dysfunction to avoid

vaccines. Print out some of this information for your doc and hopefully

that person will write a note saying the vaccine is inadvisable inyour

case.

M Nass

Thorstensen wrote:

>

> Hi all,

>

> I am trying to go back to school part time in the fall and just received the

> school's request for medical history and proof of vaccinations. Most are

> things that are over and done for better or worse, like polio. There is

> though the need for a Hepatitis B vac. It's in three doses. I can't

> imagine that this would be good for me.

>

> Do we concur?

>

> Anybody think of a rational rational that I can use with my doc about it,

> and worse the school besides it scares me to death?

>

> Thanks,

>

> ________________________________________________________________________

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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

YES, I BECAME VERY ILL AFTER HEP VACCINE. DON'T DO IT!!!!

[Guest guest]

,

I can understand your concerns about this hep vaccine. When I

was training in the operating room, several years back, I was faced with this

dilemna.

But we had a choice, then. I think that because Red Cross is now screening

for hepatitis, that it is being so required.

Back then, I asked the RN who ran the O.R. for 20 years, if she

ever had the old vaccine or the newer (supposedly safer) and she replied, in

good health, that she would never have them.She said that some nurses did

have reactive hepatitis after vaccine. This verified what I had already

felt. Even with exposure to blood products, she never got a positive. There

are many risks, even working with children, to be exposed to viruses.

Could you get a doctor's letter, excusing you from the vaccine? They

probably encourage you to take it, but don't you still have a choice?

Hannah

[Guest guest]

Is it me or did i notice a dramatic personality change in my daughter in

April. Changes don't happen this fast, i thought. There were so many things

to blame it on, diet, time of life,etc. Then i remembered she got her

hepatitis b shots in april. the change was almost overnight. i wondered if

there could be a link.

any ideas?

mam in fla

[Guest guest]

It's time for you to know.

> Is it me or did i notice a dramatic personality change in my daughter in

> April. Changes don't happen this fast, i thought. There were so many things

> to blame it on, diet, time of life,etc. Then i remembered she got her

> hepatitis b shots in april. the change was almost overnight. i wondered if

> there could be a link.

>

> any ideas?

> mam in fla

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/13/2001 12:38:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

a.hultman@... writes:

> It's time for you to know.

> > Is it me or did i notice a dramatic personality change in my daughter in

>

You said its time for me to know....you mean check out the sites, or did you

leave off some other part of the message!?

See ya,

mam in fla

[Guest guest]

Kathy, What a beautiful letter. Sandy

Fw: Vaccinations

Vaccinations

Dear President Bush

In these perilous times, let me first say, that my prayers are with you and

this nation as we undergo a new society, a society I never dreamed that we

would have to live, nevertheless must be lived through. My concerns and

reason for typing this email fall along the lines of letting you know the

increase interest in universal vaccinations of the citizens of this great

country (especially small pox). For not one of us can truly say, that we

react always favorably to any vaccines, at any time, in any combination.

Indeed, we are people of individual healing capitals, stengths and

weaknesses, that are rarely addressed as the individual, rather the mass of

humanity. As you know, the VAERS system for vaccine injury is already

taxed, and hardly accesible, for just plain folk like me, but often have

limited parameters and limited time frames that are unreasonable and

scientifically invalid. I would hate to see that system taxed by

vaccinating the entire population, later to find the system overburdened by

the great many deaths and maiming from this vaccination. This would

prevent many people from living the constitutional oath, life, liberty and

persuit of happiness. There are no easy answers to plagues and diseases,

but let me emphatically state, there is a way around them. Often the enemy

of disease is a rather workable thing, and can be directed, can be cured,

can be eliminated, if scientist put there heads together, as well as the

american people. It often comes down to living habits, overwork, stress,

nervous exhaustion, food choices, etc. I would have gladly worked around a

measles infection with my child, rather than a lifeling disability, a sort

of trading of diseases if you will, sometimes the vaccination paridigm being

the worse choice.

Becuase of my personal experience with vaccinations, the results of my two

autistic children, I say emphatically, that we are wandering and treading

some very dangerous waters in this thought pattern. Please be aware of the

congressional hearings on the matter of autism's connection to vaccines, let

alone Gulfwar vets, and a host of other populations, now striken with long

term chronic illnesses. In my own family, a virus wide illness from polio

vaccines, which were heralded as curealls, when in fact, as on ABC news

world tonight, was questioned, ie the SV-40 virus. See www.ccid.org . This

virus lead to my children's autism, my mothers cancer multiple myeloma, my

own Chronic fatigue and other neurological problems in my entire family.

The immune abnormalities alone resultant of vaccinations would make your

head swirl, and I won't go into, but are viable arguments against a vaccine

for all. One vaccine does not fit all. A viral insult to one person, will

react differently to the next, and so on and so on.

Can we not at least admit, that the industry is not hurting for want of

funds, but rather are salivating at a prospect to increase their sales,

without even the mindset that it is safe, or viable (which we call our TIRE

companies to do), and who are also safe from being sued, that they have

every reason to promote it? Boy, I'd like to be a stockholder, but I

couldn't live with myself if I did! I have been studying this connection

for many years, have gone to seminars, talked with researchers,

immunologist, doctors (who also know what is going on), virologist, and lay

researchers. There are far too many connections that are not being

addressed, and when asked to come to the science bar, they either refuse,

destroy documentation, and or slide there way through the approval system

and process. Often times questions are avoided, tests not run, long term

safety studies avoided, becuase the financial incentive is not there. Why

prove a product unsafe, wrong, and not viable, when you can pass it through,

and never answer one question why it doesn't work, does maim, does kill, and

is entirely not safe? As you know, mercury poisining law suits are coming

to the bar, becuase we know they are taking an angle of being poisined,

rather than a viral issue. The stockyards have been opened, and when

opened, it will invite more lawsuits, more red tape, more mess, and most of

all shattered lives.

There is far too many times that I have had myriads of misconceptions, but

on this point, honorable President Bush, I have a very vested interest in

finding the truth, they do not. I do not wander on the issue, I face it,

and have proved the connection with the limited time and energy I have left.

The body is a magnificent machine, and is of Godly design, and we must

reverence it more that what we are doing to it. Read any medline on

smallpox and or reactions to vaccines, and you will get a host of knowledge.

Read any parents account of their babies being robbed of their life, and

their minds, and you would stand on my side of the street eventually. I

invite you to read the website below, and draw your conclusions as well.

I pray that you will continue to serve with diligence, and with respect of

the American people, take in account our small daily struggles to make this

society better for not only us, but for our children and their children. I

know a nation cannot be blessed unless they seek their Godly design, that

is, to be happy, to serve, and to a good neighbor and citizen. Please set

aside any conceptions of what the drug companies will tell you, and

investigate it for yourself, and make your own judgement on this, without

persuasion of a highly vested interested financial party.

With Greatest Respect

Mom of four, two autsitic

Chapter Member of Autism Autoimmunity Project for Oregon

http://www.gti.net/truegrit

[Guest guest]

> Yes, my doctor had me get the pneumonia shot and the flu shot.. but

has never had me vaccinated for hep A o hep B.

This is just my opinion but I think it's much more important for you

to get the hep A and B vaccination series. Your liver doesn't need a

co-infection!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/18/2002 11:42:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

better_be_incognito@... writes:

> This is just my opinion but I think it's much more important for you

> to get the hep A and B vaccination series. Your liver doesn't need a

> co-infection!

>

I agree and I'm surprised your docs didn't mention it. That was one of the

first things my G.I. told me to do. Also a pneumonia vaccination should be

added to the list. And just for grins and giggles when was the last time

anybody had a tetnus booster?

Anne

[Guest guest]

<waving hand madly> I'm always up to date on tetnus....rescuing cats

always results in injuries..

> And just for grins and giggles when was the last time

> anybody had a tetnus booster?

> Anne

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Maybe the doc tested for the A and B antibodies and she already had them? Be

sure to ask your doc.

alley

[Guest guest]

Better to have a kid, Lynn, that's " half-vaccinated " than " half-dead " (or " half

fast " in my case).

Don't forget all the possibilities for ANTIDOTING past vaccines. There are

over-the-counter universal antidotes such as THUJA, NUX VOMICA and

others as well as specific antidotes for each vaccine. Rescue Remedy is also

good especially right after having gotten vaccinated. Phil was mentioning

some other products to me that he's used for antidoting. Ask him about them.

I've been postponing traveling to certain foreign countries (I basically don't

go

anywhere where I would be required to have vaccines) but I have one lecture

trip coming up in 2005 for which I'm going to have to figure out a plan. I will

probably either get a medical waiver, dose up big time on all my immune

tonics and live in mosquito netting while there. I'm not sure my body would

allow a vaccine under just about any circumstance. Not a very good atitude,

huh?

I got the feeling that and others may have thought that I am an

advocate of the current animal vaccine protocols. Nothing could be further

than the truth, I was just commenting on the legal mentality prevailing in our

state if you are in the position of being an official vaccinator. It's

conservative

out there folks, have you met Mike Hatch personally? I have.

Best wishes,

Will

[Guest guest]

Will,

How did you find out this info? Does it say on the " package " that THUJA &

NUX VOMICA are

antidotes for vaccinations?

What exactly do they do to counteract vaccanations? What kind of results do

you get?

I unfortunately didn't start reading about vaccinations until AFTER my

daughter's 2, 4 & 6 month shots.

Now I'm not sure what to do to help her. Is she too young for the

aforementioned antidotes?

(she's 9 months old)

Therese

Re: vaccinations

> Better to have a kid, Lynn, that's " half-vaccinated " than " half-dead " (or

" half

> fast " in my case).

>

> Don't forget all the possibilities for ANTIDOTING past vaccines. There are

> over-the-counter universal antidotes such as THUJA, NUX VOMICA and

> others as well as specific antidotes for each vaccine. Rescue Remedy is

also

> good especially right after having gotten vaccinated. Phil was mentioning

> some other products to me that he's used for antidoting. Ask him about

them.

>

> I've been postponing traveling to certain foreign countries (I basically

don't go

> anywhere where I would be required to have vaccines) but I have one

lecture

> trip coming up in 2005 for which I'm going to have to figure out a plan. I

will

> probably either get a medical waiver, dose up big time on all my immune

> tonics and live in mosquito netting while there. I'm not sure my body

would

> allow a vaccine under just about any circumstance. Not a very good

atitude,

> huh?

>

> I got the feeling that and others may have thought that I am an

> advocate of the current animal vaccine protocols. Nothing could be further

> than the truth, I was just commenting on the legal mentality prevailing in

our

> state if you are in the position of being an official vaccinator. It's

conservative

> out there folks, have you met Mike Hatch personally? I have.

>

> Best wishes,

> Will

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Therese!

You wrote:

" I unfortunately didn't start reading about vaccinations until AFTER my

daughter's 2, 4 & 6 month shots.

Now I'm not sure what to do to help her. Is she too young for the

aforementioned antidotes?

(she's 9 months old) "

Next time your daughter is scheduled to get an injection of poison ask

the doctor for the wrapper that comes with the vaccine and read about

the negative side effects..

You might consider checking the pH of your daughter's saliva and urine

just after she wakes up in the morning. She most likely will check out

7.0 or slightly above like most young children and you shouldn't be too

concerned. If her pH is below 6.5, you might want to get the advice of

a qualified medical practitioner (like Will). If it were my

granddaughter, I suggest that my daughter give her daily baths in

Miracle soap and neutralizer. I would also suggest that she give her

small amounts of Miracle neutralizer with her water or juice until her

pH is normal..

I have a lot of info about the importance of keeping the body fluids

slightly alkaline. Contact me if you want me to share it with you.

There is also a great deal of information on this subject on the

internet..

[Guest guest]

Will,

What countries are you avoiding because of vaccinations? My understanding

is that the only *required* vaccination anywhere is yellow fever, which is only

required in a few countries. I used to get vaccinated for everything, but now

that I know a lot of bad things about vaccines, I look back and realize I don't

recall *ever* being asked for my vaccination record while traveling. And I've

been to a lot of countries!

Danna

[Guest guest]

These homeopathic remedies are in literature everywhere as well-known

" universal antidotes and detoxifiers " and are in common use as drug and

vaccine antidotes. There are many more.

I think EVERYBODY should have the book 'EVERYBODY'S GUIDE TO

HOMEOPATHIC MEDICINES " BY Stephan Cummins and Dana Ullman.

Worth it's weight in gold, especially for kids. I also like HOMEOPATHIC

MEDICINE AT HOME by Panos and Heimlich. These are strictly beginner

books but fantastic. I have over a hundred books on homeopathy and mine is

a small library. After using it for 25 years, I'm still a beginner.

Don't rely on the labels on the bottles. It's too vague and just on there for

legal reasons. It's also sort of coded.

You will study homeopathy for 50 years and STILL not know how it works. It

just does. I encourage you to just use it, enjoy it, see the results, ignore the

times it doesn't work, but don't try to outsmart it or figure it out. No one can

explain it for you either, so don't bother asking.

Will

[Guest guest]

We learned the dangers of vaccinations when my daughter (now 21) almost died

of encephalitis. It was obviously the vaccinations that caused it when her

history of severe reactions from vaccinations were looked at. Anyways, she

was half vaccinated and has done fine. Because of her severe reactions, it

made us look at everything with different eyes. She was a chronically sick

child. The more we went to the doctor, the sicker she became. We stopped

going when she was 18 months old. Her siblings have never received a

vaccination and have been very healthy. My sister always thought I was nuts

and learned the hard way. Her son was a vibrant talking 12 month old who

went it for his MMR. He is now profoundly autistic at three years old.

Don't risk it!

Shari

vaccinations

> My daughter is " due " for her 5 year old vaccinations. I had given

> her all of the " normal " shots in the past without thinking- well I

> was hesitating on the chicken pox and the dr gave it to her anyways-

> but now I'm not so keen on the idea. Is there any problem with

> being " half " vaccinated?

>

> I do believe that NT is definately the right way to go. Our dd is

> growing taller and passing up cousins on both sides of the family-

> even though I'm the shortest in my family and my dh isn't overly tall

> either. I'm amazed at how bright she is (of course I couln't be

> biased) and her sweet personality.

>

> Lynn

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It's been several years since she received her last vaccinations and

she's in wonderful health. What would giving her an antidote do for

her now?

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Hey Lynn and Therese,

I have been thinking about you and last night when I was on Mercola.com, I

thought of you as well. How did you decide to proceed on future vaccinations?

If you don't want to answer that, or go off list for that, quite all right, I

can understand that! I have an almost-2 yr old and an almost-7 year old and I

am really considering no more vaccinations for them. Lots of info on how to

" get out of it " for preschoolers and school agers, but not those younger!

I found this page really interesting.

http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/legally_avoid_shots.htm It makes sense

to me (as with anything) that one has to have a plan, and go further by

documentation. That way there can't be any (grounded) accusation of child

neglect for " forgetting " to take the child in for vaccinations.

If you are so inclined, we (three or so?) could " kibbutz " about setting up a

plan for our kids, especially the wee ones!

Sara

vaccinations

My daughter is " due " for her 5 year old vaccinations. I had given

her all of the " normal " shots in the past without thinking- well I

was hesitating on the chicken pox and the dr gave it to her anyways-

but now I'm not so keen on the idea. Is there any problem with

being " half " vaccinated?

[Guest guest]

Please forward this information to others you know who are interested in

vaccine safety.

-

Neurodevelopmental Damage from Mercury in Vaccines

-

A public presentation by Dr. Mark Geier & Geier

Tuesday, May 18, 2004

7-9:30 p.m.

Hilton Hotel Minneapolis North

2200 Freeway Boulevard

Intersection of Highway 694 & Shingle Creek Parkway

Brooklyn Park, Minnesota 55430

-

Meet two leading genetic researchers whose research shows that children

given mercury in vaccines are statistically more likely to develop

neurodevelopmental disorders like ADD and autism.

-

The Geiers have published more than 30 peer-reviewed journal articles on

mercury toxicity, and investigated hundreds more.

Come learn about the growing number of scientific studies linking

mercury (Thimerosal) in vaccines to neurological damage in children.

All are invited to attend - $10 free will donation.

-

To preregister, contact the Minnesota Natural Health Coalition

(651) 322-4542 or mnhc1@...

-

Sponsored by:

the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons,

the Autism Resource Network,

The Autism Autoimmunity Project (TAAP)-Minnesota Chapter,

Biological Education for Autism Awareness-Minnesota (BEAT-MN),

Dental Amalgam Mercury Syndrome (DAMS),

Environmental Association for Great Lakes Education

Minnesota Association of Naturopathic Physicians

Minnesota Birth Network

Minnesota Children's Health and Environmental Coalition

Minnesota Natural Health Coalition,

National Autism Association,

Vaccine Awareness Minnesota,

Women's Cancer Resource Center

and concerned parents.

-

Best regards,

Jerri

Minnesota Natural Health Coalition

651 688 6515

www.minnesotanaturalhealth.org