Guest guest Posted February 28, 1999 Report Share Posted February 28, 1999 welcome bonnie and congratulations! the more informed you are the better for you, and it's never too late to get informed and then to decide whether or not to stop vaccinations, just don't go blind by what the drs. tell you and don't get bullied by them! my daughter had all her immunizations until age 3 and a last one when we moved to california where the school told me that unless she has the immunizations up to date, she won't be admitted to school. now i feel like suing them, cause it's completely untrue. there are exemptions for almost every state, either philosophical or religious. my son only got his very first hep b vaccine, and only because he got it when he was barely an hour old and i was simply in no position to think straight, i believed the ped. 'it's best for baby'... when i came to my senses, i decided, no more of this crap, and no " well baby visits " either! he's now 14 months and as healthy as the day is long. after years of purely homeopathic treatment for every health problem my daughter is doing brilliant also. no more coughs, no more colds, no ear infections! only the occasional scratch etc from falling off the bike etc. keep informing yourself, and then make a decision whether or not to immunize your children. love and light claudia ---Bonnie Galbraith <jayrosco@...> wrote: > > Hi, I am a mother to an 18 month old. I am embarrassed to say that up until these past few months, I never really questioned the vaccination process. > My son has had no reactions, up until his MNR shot. When he ran a fever of about 103 and deplayed concerning signs of being uncomfortable we took him to the hospital, where the doctor reassured us that this was a 'normal reaction'. > This was when my red flags went up. Why am I subjecting my son to this. > Anyways, now that I read that the MNR shot has been linked to Autism, I am very scared. > So far my son is showing no signs for me to be concerned about. > I continue to receive information regarding vaccinations, and I guess my question is, is it too late to stop? > Bonnie > <HR> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC " -//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN " > <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type> <META content=' " MSHTML 4.71.1712.3 " ' name=GENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Hi, I am a mother to an 18 month old. I am embarrassed to say that up until these past few months, I never really questioned the vaccination process.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>My son has had no reactions, up until his MNR shot. When he ran a fever of about 103 and deplayed concerning signs of being uncomfortable we took him to the hospital, where the doctor reassured us that this was a 'normal reaction'.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>This was when my red flags went up. Why am I subjecting my son to this. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Anyways, now that I read that the MNR shot has been linked to Autism, I am very scared.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>So far my son is showing no signs for me to be concerned about. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>I continue to receive information regarding vaccinations, and I guess my question is, is it too late to stop? </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Bonnie</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> == http://homepages.infoseek.com/~lovingdolphin1/geninfo.html silly verses http://www.freeyellow.com/members6/saraavidolphin/index.html go holistic! http://www.freeyellow.com/members6/saraavidolphin/page1.html channelings about atlantis and today icq 8082968 subscribe to NATURAL_PARENT, /subscribe.cgi/natural_parent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 1999 Report Share Posted February 28, 1999 It's never too late to stop. The more our children have, the weaker they will be IMO. Sebastiana At 08:17 PM 2/28/99 -0800, you wrote: >Hi, I am a mother to an 18 month old. I am embarrassed to say that up until these past few months, I never really questioned the vaccination process. >My son has had no reactions, up until his MNR shot. When he ran a fever of about 103 and deplayed concerning signs of being uncomfortable we took him to the hospital, where the doctor reassured us that this was a 'normal reaction'. >This was when my red flags went up. Why am I subjecting my son to this. >Anyways, now that I read that the MNR shot has been linked to Autism, I am very scared. >So far my son is showing no signs for me to be concerned about. >I continue to receive information regarding vaccinations, and I guess my question is, is it too late to stop? >Bonnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 1999 Report Share Posted March 1, 1999 I have a 19 month old daughter. I'm more embarrassed to say that I did question the vaccine issue, but still did it -- to 2 kids. My daughter has had absolutely no reaction of any kind to any of her needles -- not even to cry when she got it. When she was nearly 16 months old she started having seizures. I do know that the pertussis vaccine is " not recommended " for children who have seizures (although I'm still getting the run around over this with doctors). Anyway, limited as my knowledge is, it's not too late to stop. It's only too late after the damage has been done. vaccinations Hi, I am a mother to an 18 month old. I am embarrassed to say that up until these past few months, I never really questioned the vaccination process. My son has had no reactions, up until his MNR shot. When he ran a fever of about 103 and deplayed concerning signs of being uncomfortable we took him to the hospital, where the doctor reassured us that this was a 'normal reaction'. This was when my red flags went up. Why am I subjecting my son to this. Anyways, now that I read that the MNR shot has been linked to Autism, I am very scared. So far my son is showing no signs for me to be concerned about. I continue to receive information regarding vaccinations, and I guess my question is, is it too late to stop? Bonnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 1999 Report Share Posted March 7, 1999 This is a way of checking their record keeping when it comes to vaccines. If you know you had it and it is not there, question why it isn't there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 1999 Report Share Posted July 7, 1999 All: I am also a proud new father. My son had a lump in his thigh where the doctors gave him his second vaccine. My wife and i have been having arguments about my son getting these vaccines (i don't think they're needed) My son was born in December. I am struggling with putting my foot down and not letting him get any more vaccines. My wife doesn't think it's safe for son NOT to be vaccinated, i think it's NOT safe for him TO BE vaccinated. Here's the shots record: gotten 2 polio, needs two more? gotten 3 DTAP (diphtheria [whooping cough], tetanus, pertussis) needs two more? gotten 3 hib (haemophilus influenza type needs 1 more hip booster hasn't gotten mmr hasn't gotten chicken pox, needs two? gotten two hepatitis B, needs one more? got one rhoda virus, needs one more? these vaccines after 12 months: measels, mumps, rubella, Help me convince my wife that these shots aren't needed! Let me also mention that I help people learn about and purchase low cost life and disability insurance to protect their special little arrivals. Let me know off list if you're interested. " Vaccinationsonelist " wrote: > > Hello, my name is Sherron and I am the mother of two. My son is > four and my daughter is six months. My son has had most of his > vaccinations and was always sick with ear infections, coughing, colds, > etc.. My husband and myself have decided not to give our daughter any > vaccinations. I have done some research on it and I know several people > in my church that have decided to do the same. Even though we have > decided to do this it still concerns me that she might get one of these > diseases. I have to put my daughters health in my Saviors hands. When I > hear of people telling me of others getting these diseases I wonder if we > are doing the right thing. I would like any email address with lots of > information on this. I am just starting to looking into homeopathic > vaccines. Have you heard of this? What do you think? Any wisdom on the > subject I am very open to hear it. Thank you very much. I am glad to a > part of this group. God Bless, Sherron fritzb@... > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: body.htm > body.htm Type: Hypertext Markup Language (text/html) > Encoding: base64 Thanks, Craig J Casey Life Insurance Agent http://www.deferred.com Front of Chinese Fortune Cookie: The best throw of the dice is to throw them away.... Back of Chinese Fortune Cookie: 07 10 29 33 44 49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 1999 Report Share Posted July 7, 1999 Hi! Besides reading archived posts from this list, there are several books out there to read on the subject of vaccinations. One of them is a book by Dr. S. Mendelsohn called " How to Raise a Healthy Child .. In Spite of Your Doctor " Not only does this book discuss the vaccination issue at the end but it also gives a sound information about childhood diseases and how to sensibly care for your child. Even after deciding not to vaccinate my daughter I still went back and forth and had doubts whether I was doing the right thing. This was one of the books that put things into perspective for me concerning vaccines, childhood illnesses etc... It is a tough decision to make. I fortunately have a pediatrician that doesn't scold me on not vaccinating and supports me in my educated decision not to vaccinate. There is a lot of propaganda both for and against vaccines. Doctors and the medical field in general tries to scare you into vaccinating. The main thing is for the two of you to agree to educate yourselves by being open to researching vaccines without letting other's opinions affect yours. You have to read up on what is available. Keeping in mind that vaccines are " BIG business " millions of dollars of profits affect what the drug companies will tell you. Remember to look at who is telling you information . A lot of the research that tells you that vaccines are safe and effective come straight from the drug companies themselves. Pediatricians are afraid to go against their medical associations for fear of the repercussions that will affect their practice. My daughter is 13 months now and has not had any vaccinations. She has had one minor cold and one that was a little worse but only lasted 3 days. Everyone I know who has vaccinated their children have had ear infections, colds, flu, repiratory illnesses, asthma problems.... I take my daughter to the chiropractor once a month and whenever she seems like she might have been exposed to something which helps ensure that her body is functioning at its potential as much as possible. I don't worry about illnesses because kids who are vaccinated still have the potential to get the diseases. I know of kids that have gotten Measles, one person said their child got Whooping Cough. Chicken Pox just became a deadly disease after the drug companies manufactured a vaccine for it. Makes ya think how many other diseases were blown out of proportion. My grandmother never had all the vaccines that I had growing up. I was sick all the time. She was hardly ever sick after she got some of the childhood illnesses. As an adult she rarely was sick. She just recently had a bronchial infection for the first time and for the first time was given an antibiotic. She is 80 years old. Doctors will admit that they do not know enough about the immune system. How can they inject vaccines into your blood when they have no idea what effect it will have on the human body? Well enough of my rambling. I have been researching vaccines for about 2 years now. We research what cars to buy, houses, etc.. I just hope that people wake up and at least educate themselves on the issue of vaccines so they can make an educated opinion on whether to vaccinate or not. As parents we should be comfortable on the decisions we make. After all it is our children's lives that are in our hands and it is only us who are responsible for them. Not the doctors or experts No one else. There are exemptions that you can get if you choose not to. Officials will say you have to vaccinate but almost every state allows religious exemptions , or philosophical ones. Well I will get off my soap box now. Barbara C Casey wrote: > From: C Casey <deathinsurance@...> > > All: > > I am also a proud new father. My son had a lump in his > thigh where the doctors gave him his second vaccine. My > wife and i have been having arguments about my son getting > these vaccines (i don't think they're needed) My son was > born in December. > I am struggling with putting my foot down and not letting > him get any more vaccines. > > My wife doesn't think it's safe for son NOT to be > vaccinated, i think it's NOT safe for him TO BE vaccinated. > > Here's the shots record: > > gotten 2 polio, needs two more? > > gotten 3 DTAP (diphtheria [whooping cough], tetanus, > pertussis) > needs two more? > > gotten 3 hib (haemophilus influenza type > needs 1 more hip booster > > hasn't gotten mmr > > hasn't gotten chicken pox, needs two? > > gotten two hepatitis B, needs one more? > > got one rhoda virus, needs one more? > > these vaccines after 12 months: > > measels, mumps, rubella, > > Help me convince my wife that these shots aren't needed! > > Let me also mention that I help people learn about and > purchase low cost life and disability insurance to protect > their special little arrivals. Let me know off list if > you're interested. > > Thanks, > > Craig J Casey > Life Insurance Agent > http://www.deferred.com > > Front of Chinese Fortune Cookie: > > The best throw of the dice > is to throw them away.... > > Back of Chinese Fortune Cookie: > > 07 10 29 33 44 49 > > --------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 1999 Report Share Posted July 31, 1999 With specific regards to measles and transplacental immunity, perhaps not. But maybe another ballpark in the sense of immunity in general. Sebastiana At 07:47 AM 7/29/99 -0700, you wrote: >From: " Marsha Hudson " <marsha@...> > >Because my child is a boy I'm assuming that whether or not he is vaccinated >wouldn't effect the immunity of his children. Am I right? Marsha > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 1999 Report Share Posted August 12, 1999 and all, I have always suspected that vaccinations have played an important role in altering our immune systems in to what they are today. When the sugar cube polio vaccine came out, I went to get it with a friend and her family, was NOT with my own family. (and all from other countries) were you given childhood vaccinations like we got here in America???? It also seems suspect that so many nurses have contracted CFS after the hepatitis vaccinations and the GWS victims had some really questionable vaccinations. This seems to be one of the few links that we all have in common. What do you all think???? Marcia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 1999 Report Share Posted August 12, 1999 > I have always suspected that vaccinations have played an > important role in altering our immune systems in to what they > are today. > It also seems > suspect that so many nurses have contracted CFS after the hepatitis > vaccinations and the GWS victims had some really questionable > vaccinations. This seems to be one of the few links that we > all have in common. What do you all think???? There is lots of info on the links from vaccines to CFIDS, GWS, MS etc. If you do a medline search on cell-mediated immunity (CMI) and vaccines you will see that people with low cell-mediated immunity are at huge risk from any vaccine. I was never given an immunity test before a vaccine, has anybody else? IMO its irresponsible to give a vaccination without first knowing the state of the person's CMI. If you want a real eye opener about vaccines go to Joyce Riley's site: http://www.gulfwarvets.com and Dr. Horowitz's site at: http://www.tetrahedron.org Patti -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 1999 Report Share Posted August 12, 1999 As an RN who specialized in Wound Care, I was vaccinated ad infinitum......I do believe there is some basis, although I cant prove anything....that all of the vaccinations I HAD to HAVE for work affected my immune system..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 1999 Report Share Posted August 14, 1999 I've read other post on this list about CMI. What exactly is it? Thanks Phil " Skari, M " wrote: > From: " Skari, M " <SkariPM@...> > > > I have always suspected that vaccinations have played an > > important role in altering our immune systems in to what they > > are today. > > > It also seems > > suspect that so many nurses have contracted CFS after the hepatitis > > vaccinations and the GWS victims had some really questionable > > vaccinations. This seems to be one of the few links that we > > all have in common. What do you all think???? > > There is lots of info on the links from vaccines to CFIDS, GWS, MS etc. > > If you do a medline search on cell-mediated immunity (CMI) and > vaccines you will see that people with low cell-mediated immunity > are at huge risk from any vaccine. I was never given an immunity > test before a vaccine, has anybody else? IMO its irresponsible to give > a vaccination without first knowing the state of the person's CMI. > > If you want a real eye opener about vaccines go to Joyce Riley's site: > > http://www.gulfwarvets.com > > and Dr. Horowitz's site at: > > http://www.tetrahedron.org > > Patti > -- > > --------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 > I've read other post on this list about CMI. What exactly is it? CMI = cell-mediated immunity HMI = Humorally-mediated imunity. Basically, they are on opposite sides of a see-saw. if one is up, the other is down, and vice versa. Previously I've posted long explanations on this subject, which you can find in the archives. Alternately, you can read Mark Konlee's newsletters. Some of these have very long and detailed explanations of CMI vs HMI (also called Th1 & Th2). You can open his newsletters and do a page search for these terms (they are very long). Konlee's web site is at: http://www.execpc.com/~keephope/ Patti -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 1999 Report Share Posted October 23, 1999 Yes, I agree that the single most important determinant of childhood mortality is the supply of fresh water and adequate sewage. However, it is because of the LACK of these in certain areas, that vaccination is all the more important. Rosy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 1999 Report Share Posted October 24, 1999 http://www.909shot.com/ http://www.whale.to/Vaccines/vaccine_sites.html On Sun, 24 Oct 1999 drcabaker@... wrote: > OK OK, the vaccination argument can go on forever, however the wool has > been pulled over the eyes of you who think it is all wonderful and safe! > Check it out for yourselves there are thousands of horror stories. > > National Vaccine Information Center > 512 West Maple Avenue, # 206 > Vienna, VA 22180 > 703-938-0342 > Fax 703-938-5768 > > Sorry I don't have their web site address, if I find it I will forward it > later > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Imagine a credit card with a 0% Intro APR and Instant Approval… > It seems impossible, but it’s not. Visit GetSmart.com’s Credit Card > Finder and click on instant approval cards right now at > http://clickhere./click/1269 > > > Visit http://cures for cancer.evangelist.net for cancer info or to unsubscribe > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 1999 Report Share Posted October 27, 1999 In a message dated 10/27/99 2:02:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, schweit2@... writes: << I am leary of the Hep B vaccination; wondered if anybody had heard anything about the meningitis vaccination. >> , Dr. Shephard was collecting names of those who had the hep B vaccine trigger their ME a few years ago. Many of the hospital personnel in the US had this as a trigger. Gail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 1999 Report Share Posted October 27, 1999 At 02:08 PM 10/27/99 -0400, you wrote: >From: Schweitzer <schweit2@...> > >My daughter's school wants all their students vaccinated for meningitis >-- they also want them vaccinated for Hep B -- I am leary of the Hep B >vaccination; wondered if anybody had heard anything about the meningitis >vaccination. > , I would read some books about ALL vaccines being harmful. There is a website which lists some books, cutcat.com, with other health products. Did you know they have been adding mercury to vaccines? I know people who got CFS after vaccines. I have never been the same after a vaccine before going to Mexico. The science behind vaccines has always been shaky. The famous polio vaccine did not have the concensus of the even the mainstream medical community when it was created. Now I think they have discontinued it because, among other reasons, it has viruses in it. The stories go on and on.... >>This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 1999 Report Share Posted October 27, 1999 My CFS was triggered by a Polio and Tetanus booster at age eighteen (started feeling bad within an hour and went downhill from there). Was as healthy as a horse before and am now a Cfids wreck. As Gail said, there are cases of the Hep B Vacinne doing the same - beware. -. ----- Original Message ----- > From: GAILRONDA@... > > In a message dated 10/27/99 2:02:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > schweit2@... writes: > > << I am leary of the Hep B > vaccination; wondered if anybody had heard anything about the meningitis > vaccination. >> > , Dr. Shephard was collecting names of those who had the hep B > vaccine trigger their ME a few years ago. Many of the hospital personnel in > the US had this as a trigger. > Gail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 1999 Report Share Posted October 28, 1999 <<< My daughter's school wants all their students vaccinated for meningitis -- they also want them vaccinated for Hep B -- I am leary of the Hep B vaccination; wondered if anybody had heard anything about the meningitis vaccination. >>> i don't know anything about the meningitis vaccine, mary, buy my daughter got the hep B series at school last year, as part of study or something. it was free. this school year they are requiring it. i know some people will probably think i'm nuts for letting her take it. i had looked around on the internet and found info - remember 2 researchers? - working together - vaccinated at the same time - then both got sick with cfs/me. maybe i'm naive, but i don't believe the vaccine causes it - i think the immune system was probably already set up for it . . . i don't believe my daughter has been " normal " , almost since she was born. she had several unspecified viral " episodes " , a couple i particularly remember with high fevers ( 103 & 105). she was never as active as other kids, especially in the summer heat - would end up back inside with me in the A/C after a little bit on bike, skating, etc. the other kids were still out there going strong. last school year, she decided she wanted to skate 24/7. as soon as she started it, her grades started dropping. but she didn't have an unusual # of absences yet. i don't remember if the first shot was in sept or oct 98, the 2nd was early dec, and the 3rd was 5/5/99. she was skating 2-4 times a week. during christmas break, after the 3rd or 4th time, she suddenly didn't want to skate anymore, and she was " down " for the rest of vacation, almost a week. in january, she started skating again, 2-3 times wk. towards the end of jan. she started suffering from it, and in february, everything hit the fan. she couldn't skate at all anymore, and missed half the days the rest of the year. she failed 4th qtr and pretty much the 3rd. she's failing 1st qtr now, but is there almost all the time (3 absences, 3 tardies. and she skates for just 2-3 hrs on saturdays now, and spends rest of week end " down " . oh, and a counselor at school " chewed her out " monday, when she was 2 1/2 hrs late. she says " i can't get up " , and the woman says what about all the rest of the kids that are here on time, and something like " what makes you special, that you don't have to be here on time " . . . oh geezzzz, talk about clueless, and i wanted to smack her, that kind of drivel just makes it that much harder to get her to go . . . anyway, she has as appt. in dec. i think we'll finally get her dx'd, and the help she needs with school. @}{~{<<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ debbie s. - dlsherman@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 1999 Report Share Posted October 28, 1999 Hi, In MI there is an outbreak of meningitis on campus dorms on several campuses, and there have been deaths. But as far as I know, the vaccine is not mandatory. This is a hard call - I have a daughter who lives in a dorm! I have held out on the Hep B vaccine as long as possible. It will be mantatory for my son by the first of the year who is in public school. take care, CHristie At 02:08 PM 10/27/99 -0400, you wrote: >From: Schweitzer <schweit2@...> > >My daughter's school wants all their students vaccinated for meningitis >-- they also want them vaccinated for Hep B -- I am leary of the Hep B >vaccination; wondered if anybody had heard anything about the meningitis >vaccination. > >Thanks -- > > Schweitzer >mailto:schweit2@... > >>This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 1999 Report Share Posted October 28, 1999 -- I understand the concern about all vaccines -- but we have to remember that BEFORE there were vaccines (and antibiotics), HALF of all children died before the age of four, and HALF of the remainder died before the age of 21. Measles was deadly when introduced into populations that had never encountered it before -- it wiped out virtually the entire native Hawaiian population, and you can trace the timing of when it wiped out different Amerindian nations after 1500. (The early American settlers from England benefitted by being able to use the deserted village sites left behind when entire towns died from the epidemics -- and most certainly the Spanish conquistedores would not have had such an easy time of it had the native poulation not been decimated by measles and smallpox at the time.) If you count on others having had the vaccine to keep the diseases out of the population as a whole, you will end up with a segment of the population that has no antibodies whatsoever -- and will be very vulnerable if an epidemic DOES break out. Sometimes I wonder if someone like me with the RnaseL defect is one of those kids who would have died in those old epidemics ... that is, the reason there are more of us with CFS/M.E. now is because in the " good old days " we would have died from childhood diseases before we ever made it to adulthood. Is there any campaign to CLEAN UP (rather than discard) vaccinations? Schweitzer mailto:schweit2@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 1999 Report Share Posted October 28, 1999 At 04:48 PM 10/28/99 -0400, you wrote: >From: Schweitzer <schweit2@...> > > -- I understand the concern about all vaccines -- but we have to >remember that BEFORE there were vaccines (and antibiotics), HALF of all >children died before the age of four, and HALF of the remainder died >before the age of 21. This is a huge generalization and is wrong. I don't know where you got that. What societies are you talking about? You overlook the fact that there have been many disease free populations that do not use vaccines. See Weston Price, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration. There are also books refuting the idea that vaccines cure diseases. > >Measles was deadly when introduced into populations that had never >encountered it before -- it wiped out virtually the entire native >Hawaiian population, and you can trace the timing of when it wiped out >different Amerindian nations after 1500. (The early American settlers >from England benefitted by being able to use the deserted village sites >left behind when entire towns died from the epidemics -- and most >certainly the Spanish conquistedores would not have had such an easy >time of it had the native poulation not been decimated by measles and >smallpox at the time.) We've all heard this story many times. You are not considering all the variables, such as, these societies were in the process of being conquered, at war, being displaced and unable to harvest food normally, etc. The variables are not isolated properly to make such firm conclusions. >If you count on others having had the vaccine to keep the diseases out >of the population as a whole, you will end up with a segment of the >population that has no antibodies whatsoever -- and will be very >vulnerable if an epidemic DOES break out. False. Many exposed native populations maintained resistance to TB, polio, etc. They degenerated when they started eating like European peoples. See Price. > >Sometimes I wonder if someone like me with the RnaseL defect is one of >those kids who would have died in those old epidemics ... that is, the >reason there are more of us with CFS/M.E. now is because in the " good >old days " we would have died from childhood diseases before we ever made >it to adulthood. That's purely speculative. > > >>This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 1999 Report Share Posted October 28, 1999 > >At 04:48 PM 10/28/99 -0400, you wrote: >>From: Schweitzer <schweit2@...> >> >> -- I understand the concern about all vaccines -- but we have to >>remember that BEFORE there were vaccines (and antibiotics), HALF of all >>children died before the age of four, and HALF of the remainder died >>before the age of 21. > >This is a huge generalization and is wrong. I don't know where you got that. >What societies are you talking about? You overlook the fact that there have >been many disease free populations that do not use vaccines. See Weston >Price, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration. There are also books refuting >the idea that vaccines cure diseases. , What treatment has worked best for you? Christie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 1999 Report Share Posted October 28, 1999 See Weston >>Price, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration. > >What treatment has worked best for you? > >Christie, I mentioned some of this when I introduced myself when I joined last week. Diet is number one. See www.odomnet.com. We can talk about it if you are interested. Also, Sally Fallon's book Nourishing Traditions. This includes juicing vegetables everyday. Mercury amalgam removal. Hot and cold showers work wonders for circulation, muscles and energy. Bowell cleansing with herbs. Raw garlic. I just started some extremely promising supplements by the research I read and people I talked to: Imuplus and Colostrum. I can feel them already. I learned about them from Phil and Suzy on this list. I have lots of small tricks like bee pollen, royal jelly, chlorella, the only good brand of cod liver oil I know of. (All unheated products) I certainly don't have all the answers, but I have made significant progress. Now if I could just learn to rest better rather than burning up all the energy as soon as I get it. I am sorry to hear about your circumstances. I wish you the best. Health regards, > >>This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 1999 Report Share Posted October 30, 1999 , I don't know quite how to respond to your charge that I must be totally ignorant because I am not a devotee of a particular book that you have read. I do learn things from what you write -- including about AIDS. But let's leave it open for different folks to know about different things, okay? My information on vaccines comes from what I know as the state of the art in medical history (from my pre-CFS/M.E. career as a historian). The statistics on children comes from the current state of the literature on Anglo-American farming societies (very healthy environments) until the mid-nineteenth century, when things began to change. In the healthy family-run farms of New England, the Middle Colonies, and eventually the American midwest, once you reached the age of 21, your expected lifespan was about the same as it is today! (And that goes for women, too -- dying in childbirth was not common unless you already had a health problem). But children died. A noncontraceptive population will pop out one kid every two years (every one year in the younger ages, every other year in older ages). The completed family average of 5-7 children in New England (a remarkable demographic statistic) was the end result of households starting out with a dozen or more life births. In between was an awful lot of heartbreak. Vaccines were never intended to " cure " anything. They have, however, been effective in the past -- from all available evidence -- in preventing the spread of certain deadly diseases -- smallpox, diptheria, whooping cough, as examples. The drop in mortality rates in western societies are the product of a number of things happening at once -- the rise of aseptic techniques, antibiotics, vaccines (yes), a rise in the standard of living permitting better nutrition (as well as innovations such as canning, freezing, and better cooking techniques), healthier living environments, time for the average person to recuperate from stressors on the body, and (in some ways) safer homes (kids used to die from falling into open fires ...) (now they die from getting shot ...) All " progress " is not necessarily a good idea. When animal husbandry developed a " better " pig (converted food to protein more effectively) -- i.e., Wilbur, instead of the thin scrawny things that used to run around farms -- we also added more fat to our diets. The post-WWII innovation of adding hormones to our foods has been a spectacularly bad idea from a nutritional standpoint; and we all know the problems that have resulted from indiscriminate use of pesticides and other poisons. But that does not mean that all " progress " is bad, either. It's a long way both morally and theoretically from developing a vaccine to prevent the spread of polio -- and then rejecting the DEAD vaccine (the shot) in favor of using a variant of the vaccine that involved a LIVE virus (though weakened) to surreptitiously vaccinate people who happened to change the baby's diapers while the baby was contageous from the vaccination (the oral vaccine on the sugar cubes)! What happened with the oral polio vaccine was an enormous violation of the public trust. What happened recently with the anthrax vaccinations of soldiers is an equally profound violation of public trust. But that does not mean that vaccination as a CONCEPT is itself always wrong. What I see going wrong is the violation of public trust -- the absence of INFORMATION that the public deserves to know. We are making choices based on what we know -- and what we know is, in some cases, totally wrong because we have had information withheld. That is a separate problem from whether or not vaccines have worked in the past. Let's say that the reason I have CFS/M.E. is all the vaccines I had as a child. Okay. But suppose I had had the diseases? Perfectly healthy, well-nourished, RICH children used to get polio (I have a good friend whose sister got one strain and died, while she got the other and was permanently paralyzed; they came from a very well-known wealthy, politically-active family. NOTHING is available to us today that was not available to them.) You've never lived through an epidemic in which children died. I have only lived through them vicariously -- reading the letters people wrote two hundred and fifty years ago. It is not an experience I would want to have. And not a chance I want to take. Whether vaccines are the answer to good health everywhere, every time, is not the subject. The subject is US, which means western culture, and a history of disease in western culture in the past millenium. Lowering population will help with the spread of disease, but it's not readily achieveable! I personally have my doubts as to these " diseease-free societies " (write me about them backchannel if you want) -- but whether or not they exist or have existed, we don't live in one of them! If there is a theory out there that vaccines are absolutely useless, well -- it's still a theory. You can draw YOUR conclusions, but leave me free to draw mine. And once again, I think we have wandered far from the intent of this group. Schweitzer mailto:schweit2@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 1999 Report Share Posted October 30, 1999 >From: Schweitzer <schweit2@...> > >My information on vaccines comes from what I know as the state of the >art in medical history (from my pre-CFS/M.E. career as a historian). > > >And once again, I think we have wandered far from the intent of this >group. Hi, Maybe so, maybe not! Your post put the issue of vaccines into perspective. And as a history major origionally myself, I enjoyed reading! It is important to realize that not all vaccines are necessarily harmful but that mistakes have been made, as in the anthrax and - remember the swine flu shot causeing guillian-barre? Thanks for the info! Take care, Christie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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