ascorbic acid

[Guest guest]

I take liquid selenium and liquid silica, but no other mineral supplements.

I take liquid selenium because hair testing showed that it was the only

needed mineral I was low in. I was high in calcium, magnesium and

strontium.

Nina

Re: Re: Ascorbic Acid

List members apologies if you consider this off topic..

Dear Carol

What is your source of " blue green algae " Spirulina?

Q:What form do you take this?

I am asking because I have been asked to take this but I do not know

enough about Spirulina

Carol Minnick <carolminnick@...> wrote:

Then I guess you could call me a purist. I'm sure selenium is available in

other foods besides brazil nuts - blue green algae for instance, of which I

eat a lot of, because it's a whole food - earth's first food as a matter of

fact. I would never take selenium pills, and I wouldn't take any other

isolated synthetic vitamin pills either.

Carol

From: Duncan Crow

Carol, your contention is a purist's ideal; ideals are often

impractical.

Let's say there's no selenium in your goundwater or in the

vegetables gown in your soil. Selenium is crucial. Sure, you

might say, but I'll eat Brazil Nuts for my selenium. Your Brazil

nuts at the grocery store might happen to be grown in Central

America, which has no selenium in the soil and the nuts don't

have it either.

As a practical matter you might choose selenium 200 mcg tablets

from the health shop; 600 mcg or even 1100 mcg daily if you had

an autoimmune or cancer. Are you gong to buy and eat that many

" Brazilian Brazil Nuts " using Internet purchases, or take the

tablets?

[Guest guest]

I had great success using synthetic C when I had cancer many years ago. I

did to bowel tolerance and it was a remarkable thing to actually see how my

body progressed through the healing stages by watching how much C it needed

even though I didn't feel much difference going on. When I was at the

surgery/immediate recovery stage I took 21 1,000 mg a day, spread out over

the day before bowel tolerance was reached. As I slowly recovered and my

body got its strength back, about every 3 weeks I would have to lower the

dosage. Meaning that the 21 became too much after 3 weeks so I had to drop

back by 3 tablets a day, and would stay at 18 tablets for a few weeks, and

then that would be too much. I would drop back by one tablet a day till the

soft stools stopped and that was usually 2 to 3 tablets till my body

stabilized again. After about 3 weeks the 18 was too much and I only needed

15. By the time I reached 12 a day the time frame became shorter between

dosages. Meaning instead of my body needing the bigger dose for 3 weeks

before needing less it only needed the higher dose for 2 weeks--like the

healing time was getting shorter as time went on. Then it dropped down to 1

week before needing to lower the dosage until my normal tolerance became

4000 mgs a day. Yet, when I feel as if I'm coming down with a cold I can

kick back up to 8 or 10 tablets a day for a few days without reaching

tolerance, but as soon as my body is over the virus that becomes too much.

So needless to say I'm a firm believer in Vit. C and the only experience I

ve had is with synthetic. I have read many times that it is best to get C

with bioflavinoids to make the C absorbable, but I don't think at the time

that I was taking the high doses I had that type of C. Perhaps if I did I

wouldn't have needed such high amounts. But--those amounts did not hurt me

and I firmly believe it helped me. Thing is, we have to remember that every

body is different and has different needs and reactions to any substance

that we put in it. So I believe that certain people with more sensitive

bodies need as natural a substance as possible. Then there are people like

me who can tolerate just about anything. :-)

Samala,

-------Original Message-------

With any substance that is taken in major quantities, there will be

Withdrawal symptoms when the intake is stopped. It is absolute nonsense

To believe that synthetic ascorbic acid CAUSES scurvy. The opposite is

True. Linus ing, the biochemist who was awarded the Nobel price

Twice for his research on Vit C (and believe me, he was not reseaching

Amla), proved that cardiovascular disease is a mild form of scurvy and

That the intake of sufficient ascorbic acid (the synthetic form) could

Prevent this disease. Vit C does NOT cause diarhea either, when one

Starts at low quantities and build up.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Yes, and this is exactly how Vit C dosage should be lowered. People who

take 10,000 mgs a day, for instance, and then suddenly stop one day,

because the threat is over, will induce a bit of scurvy.

And when doing really low dose, as I have been, the Amla seems to stay

in the system longer and not do this. That was my only real point. I

did not mean to sound like I thought people should not take Vit C.

Blessings

Donna

http://www.excellentthings.com

wrote:

>

> I had great success using synthetic C when I had cancer many years ago. I

> did to bowel tolerance and it was a remarkable thing to actually see

> how my

> body progressed through the healing stages by watching how much C it

> needed

> even though I didn't feel much difference going on. When I was at the

> surgery/immediate recovery stage I took 21 1,000 mg a day, spread out over

> the day before bowel tolerance was reached. As I slowly recovered and my

> body got its strength back, about every 3 weeks I would have to lower the

> dosage.

>

[Guest guest]

Ascorbic Acid *IS* vitamin C. Some people say they need co-factors

like bioflavanoids, but animals which make their own C do not make

bioflavanoids, they just make Ascorbate ions.

Alobar

On 6/30/08, Duke Stone <dukesdeals@...> wrote:

>

> Alobar:

> Ascorbic acid is a very short chain molecule and barley passes for Vitamin C

compared to that from fresh fruits and vegetables. It does a very good job for

what it is intended but when it comes to my own personal use I prefer other

products.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Anyone ever researched why animals make their own C while we don't since it

is so vital a nutrient?

Dove

Ascorbic Acid *IS* vitamin C. Some people say they need co-factors

like bioflavanoids, but animals which make their own C do not make

bioflavanoids, they just make Ascorbate ions.

Alobar

[Guest guest]

S a n r wrote:

> Anyone ever researched why animals make their own C while we don't since it

> is so vital a nutrient?

>

Guinea pigs don't make vit C either.

I would think the LInus ing foundation might have some info about

humans and not making vit C.

sol

[Guest guest]

Thanks, I'll go there. But it just seems to me that if it is such a vital

nutrient for our health that we would have been created to be able to make

our own, esp if the lower animal kingdom can. And they are mostly

vegetarians and get more of this vitamin in their food than we do, although

we were originally all vegetarians until after the Flood. Something got lost

somewhere I think.

thanks, Sanr

S a n r wrote:

> Anyone ever researched why animals make their own C while we don't since

> it

> is so vital a nutrient?

>

Guinea pigs don't make vit C either.

I would think the LInus ing foundation might have some info about

humans and not making vit C.

sol

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

sol,

I tried to go there but I don't think the foundation or LP Institute exists

anymore. I was referred to something called Ormed.com and I couldn't find

anything there to click on to find an answer. But I will google it and see

what I can come up with.

Thanks,

Sanr

S a n r wrote:

> Anyone ever researched why animals make their own C while we don't since

> it

> is so vital a nutrient?

>

Guinea pigs don't make vit C either.

I would think the LInus ing foundation might have some info about

humans and not making vit C.

sol

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

What got lost (from what I've been able to determine) is one of four liver

enzymes that is needed to convert sugar to ascorbate (vitamin C). There are

three other animals (guineA pigs, fruit bats, and gorillas) that also cannot

make their own--and those that can make it at a dosage of (what would be

[for humans]) 12-15 grams a day.

J.

Re: ascorbic acid

Thanks, I'll go there. But it just seems to me that if it is such a vital

nutrient for our health that we would have been created to be able to make

our own, esp if the lower animal kingdom can. And they are mostly

vegetarians and get more of this vitamin in their food than we do,

although

we were originally all vegetarians until after the Flood. Something got

lost

somewhere I think.

thanks, Sanr

S a n r wrote:

> Anyone ever researched why animals make their own C while we don't since

> it

> is so vital a nutrient?

>

Guinea pigs don't make vit C either.

I would think the LInus ing foundation might have some info about

humans and not making vit C.

sol

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

----- That's interesting . But it still begs the question, 'why' did it

get lost, and/or did it really get lost or was it never there to begin with?

I'm tryiing to research it further and will get back with any results when I

find them.

Thanks,

Sanr

What got lost (from what I've been able to determine) is one of four liver

enzymes that is needed to convert sugar to ascorbate (vitamin C). There are

three other animals (guineA pigs, fruit bats, and gorillas) that also cannot

make their own--and those that can make it at a dosage of (what would be

[for humans]) 12-15 grams a day.

J.

Re: ascorbic acid

Thanks, I'll go there. But it just seems to me that if it is such a vital

nutrient for our health that we would have been created to be able to make

our own, esp if the lower animal kingdom can. And they are mostly

vegetarians and get more of this vitamin in their food than we do,

although

we were originally all vegetarians until after the Flood. Something got

lost

somewhere I think.

thanks, Sanr

S a n r wrote:

> Anyone ever researched why animals make their own C while we don't since

> it

> is so vital a nutrient?

>

Guinea pigs don't make vit C either.

I would think the LInus ing foundation might have some info about

humans and not making vit C.

sol

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Sanr, I think what you're looking for is that Linus ing missed the point

that only low amounts of vitamin C are needed, when glutathione, an antioxidant

your body DOES make, is adequate to recycle it, one of its functions. A very low

dose of vitamin C, probably under about a gram daily would do it if one's

glutathione is up, very unlike the 12 grams or some such ballpark that ing

suggested. Glutathione also recycles other antioxidants.

Duncan

> > Anyone ever researched why animals make their own C while we don't since

> > it

> > is so vital a nutrient?

> >

> Guinea pigs don't make vit C either.

> I would think the LInus ing foundation might have some info about

> humans and not making vit C.

> sol

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

This issue is frequently discussed at the forum for the Vitamin C Foundation.

Owen Fonorow is the founder. Bottom line is that we all must supplement with

Vitamin C so that our blood vessels don't get inflamed and our hearts don't get

diseased. phine

> > Anyone ever researched why animals make their own C while we don't since

> > it

> > is so vital a nutrient?

> >

> Guinea pigs don't make vit C either.

> I would think the LInus ing foundation might have some info about

> humans and not making vit C.

> sol

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the link phine. I just registered and am waiting for

approval.

I wonder if you could tell me if you use their vitamin C and if you might

knw the source of it. They say it's not corn but they don't know the source,

only that it's pure at the end prduct.

Thanks, Sanr

This issue is frequently discussed at the forum for the Vitamin C

Foundation. Owen Fonorow is the founder. Bottom line is that we all must

supplement with Vitamin C so that our blood vessels don't get inflamed and

our hearts don't get diseased. phine

> > Anyone ever researched why animals make their own C while we don't

> since

> > it

> > is so vital a nutrient?

> >

> Guinea pigs don't make vit C either.

> I would think the LInus ing foundation might have some info about

> humans and not making vit C.

> sol

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Vitamin C dosing is not an issue, just a perception. The research is quite clear

that people get well with precursors for the master antioxidant glutathione, in

absence of overt vitamin C supplementation. Vitamin C proponents commonly either

don't know it or minimize it for argument as followers often do, but it's

glutathione, not vitamin C, that protects mitochondria and also reduces vitamin

C so it can be reused. You'll see that low glutathione is the common denominator

for inflammatory and degenerative diseases and low immune response.

Duncan

> > > Anyone ever researched why animals make their own C while we don't since

> > > it

> > > is so vital a nutrient?

> > >

> > Guinea pigs don't make vit C either.

> > I would think the LInus ing foundation might have some info about

> > humans and not making vit C.

> > sol

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Duncan,

How do you increase the amount of glutathione that you get? How much should you

take if you have problems with inflammation and aching joints?

Thanks,

Toni

..

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Re: ascorbic acid

Vitamin C dosing is not an issue, just a perception. The research is quite clear

that people get well with precursors for the master antioxidant glutathione, in

absence of overt vitamin C supplementation. Vitamin C proponents commonly either

don't know it or minimize it for argument as followers often do, but it's

glutathione, not vitamin C, that protects mitochondria and also reduces vitamin

C so it can be reused. You'll see that low glutathione is the common denominator

for inflammatory and degenerative diseases and low immune response.

Duncan

> > > Anyone ever researched why animals make their own C while we don't since

> > > it

> > > is so vital a nutrient?

> > >

> > Guinea pigs don't make vit C either.

> > I would think the LInus ing foundation might have some info about

> > humans and not making vit C.

> > sol

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Toni, I increase glutathione with undenatured whey and selenium. The way to tell

how much glutathione precursor in a whey is given at the bottom of my whey page,

linked below. See also the link to my glutathione references page.

http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/cold-processed-whey.html

http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/glutathione-references.html

Duncan

> > > > Anyone ever researched why animals make their own C while we don't

since

> > > > it

> > > > is so vital a nutrient?

> > > >

> > > Guinea pigs don't make vit C either.

> > > I would think the LInus ing foundation might have some info about

> > > humans and not making vit C.

> > > sol

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

" Duncan wrote:

>

> Vitamin C dosing is not an issue, just a perception. The research is quite

clear that people get well with precursors for the master antioxidant

glutathione, in absence of overt vitamin C supplementation.

Coenzyme Q-10 & R (or alpha) Lipoic acid also recycle the antioxidents C & E -

I've been taking each of these. One of the benefits of Lipoic Acid is in the

destruction of inflammation as it's being formed - hence, I RARELY experience

any soreness after exercise, even something I've been away from for awhile (I'm

in my late 50s, a time this 'should' be getting worse, not better!)

Lipoic acid is said to chelate heavy metals, help with collegen repair, recycle

C & E, reverse gum disease, & destroy inflammation. Good stuff. Also can be

used externally for collegen repair.

[Guest guest]

According to Levy M.D., both Vitamin C and Vitamin E along with

N-acetylcysteine are important supplements for glutathione production. In fact

he says, " " the human heart and circulatory system require the maintenance of

sufficient GSH levels to ensure heart health. Optimally, the high GSH levels

must be accompanied by high levels of Vitamin C. " " phine

\

> > > > Anyone ever researched why animals make their own C while we don't

since

> > > > it

> > > > is so vital a nutrient?

> > > >

> > > Guinea pigs don't make vit C either.

> > > I would think the LInus ing foundation might have some info about

> > > humans and not making vit C.

> > > sol

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

how much R lipoic acid do you take per day? phine

>

>

> Coenzyme Q-10 & R (or alpha) Lipoic acid also recycle the antioxidents C & E -

I've been taking each of these. One of the benefits of Lipoic Acid is in the

destruction of inflammation as it's being formed - hence, I RARELY experience

any soreness after exercise, even something I've been away from for awhile (I'm

in my late 50s, a time this 'should' be getting worse, not better!)

>

> Lipoic acid is said to chelate heavy metals, help with collegen repair,

recycle C & E, reverse gum disease, & destroy inflammation. Good stuff. Also

can be used externally for collegen repair.

>

[Guest guest]

phine, glutathione is made from three amino acids and selenium, not vitamin

C and E. The FDA slide show or one of the first few research papers linked on my

references page, or a quick search though his own medical archives on PubMed,

would show the doctor is wrong, or at least the wording is.

http://tinyurl.com/glutathione-references

Also, the Dr. mentions an " optimally high " level of vitamin C but no such thing

at all has been established by any study. Though some research shows " high "

vitamin C is better than " low " vitamin C, no research has shown that high

supplemental vitamin C is better than moderate intake in the presence of

adequate levels of glutathione.

Glutathione has been well researched, and one of glutathione's natural functions

is to reactivate spent vitamin C and E so they can be reused, so high amounts of

these antioxidants are not required when glutathione levels are adequate. If you

want to high-dose vitamin C as well, at least it's safe, but the doctor's simple

enthusiasm is recognized for what it is.

When glutathione levels are not adequate, there is always disease; when levels

are up, disease is reduced or absent, including heart disease. Health occurs

when glutathione is maintained even with, some would say, the " low " vitamin C

intake of a crappy North American diet.

I agree that other antioxidants are useful, particularly if several naturally

occur in your diet, and I wouldn't want to minimize the importance of vitamin C,

but high glutathione, not high vitamin C, is the real connection to reduced

disease, and I suggest that the high-dosing vitamin C people should more

properly be marching to the glutathione drum while still acknowledging all other

antioxidants, vitamin C included, in the proper perspective.

NAC is essentially a toxin as it spontaneously hydrolyzes to free cysteine in

the stomach, blood, and lymph fluid, while at the same time a minor percentage

gets to the liver and gets used.

Since free cysteine is poorly absorbed and transported, and also toxic (Meister,

1984; Gutman and Schettini, 1998; Baruchel et al, 1996) and is spontaneously

oxidized (Gutman and Schettini, 1998; Baruchel et al, 1996) it does not

represent an ideal delivery system (Bounous et al, 1989; Gutman and Schettini,

1998).

I hope this clears up a few things

Duncan

>

> According to Levy M.D., both Vitamin C and Vitamin E along with

N-acetylcysteine are important supplements for glutathione production. In fact

he says, " " the human heart and circulatory system require the maintenance of

sufficient GSH levels to ensure heart health. Optimally, the high GSH levels

must be accompanied by high levels of Vitamin C. " " phine

>

> \

[Guest guest]

Still exists, I gave the wrong name.

http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/NaturalC.htm

There are also a lot of other articles on vitmains, etc there.

sol

S a n r wrote:

> sol,

> I tried to go there but I don't think the foundation or LP Institute exists

> anymore.

[Guest guest]

<josephine@...> wrote: How much R Lipoic Acid do you take?

I take 100 MG of R Lipoic Acid most days - recently have been taking it ~ 3x a

week rather than daily. I also take 100 mg of Co-Q 10; I work in a ND's office,

so get supplements at cost, which helps price wise!!

I take maybe a gram or two of C a day - have taken more at times, & recall a

fellow in the Linus ing newsletter commenting that an adult (male) goat

weighing 140# makes about 7 grams of C a day.

Intriguingly, our bodies gear up to make more C when we're sick, but because we

lack those liver enzymes, it doesn't happen. Emergen-C packets are one of my fav

ways to get extra when I'm feeling punky.

[Guest guest]

Can anyone recommend an ascorbic acid vitamin C powder that is free of China

and not made from corn? And if it is not made from corn, what other things

do they make it from? Barley or other grains? It would be important to

people with allergies to know that.

The Vitamin C Foundation will not say what their source is, only that it is

free of china and corn. Actually, they seemed to infer that it didn't matter

what the original source was as long as it was pure at the end. I don't know

how they can't know what their vitamin is made from, especially when it is

the only product they sell.

I would most appreciate any thoughts and suggestions, I have and am still

spending so very much time looking that I would like to use in other ways if

possible.

Thanks,

San

Ascorbic Acid *IS* vitamin C. Some people say they need co-factors

like bioflavanoids, but animals which make their own C do not make

bioflavanoids, they just make Ascorbate ions.

Alobar

On 6/30/08, Duke Stone <dukesdeals@...> wrote:

>

> Alobar:

> Ascorbic acid is a very short chain molecule and barley passes for

> Vitamin C compared to that from fresh fruits and vegetables. It does a

> very good job for what it is intended but when it comes to my own personal

> use I prefer other products.

>

[Guest guest]

Sanr, you're quite sure you want only synthetic ascorbic acid and not natural

vitamin C and its bioflavonoids?

You realize that vitamin C is only needed in small amounts if your crucially

necessary natural master antioxidant glutathione is adequate?

Glutathione recycles vitamin C many times; this is not very effective when

glutathione is low.

Why would you avoid Chinese vitamin products? Scared? Not me -- Although I'm a

consultant I still use them myself.

And Corn as a source of raw material? Whazzup? Even GMO Corn and Soy can be used

effectively as raw material without the risk that some people perceive might

exist.

Duncan

> >

> > Alobar:

> > Ascorbic acid is a very short chain molecule and barley passes for

> > Vitamin C compared to that from fresh fruits and vegetables. It does a

> > very good job for what it is intended but when it comes to my own personal

> > use I prefer other products.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

ascorbic acid w/o bioflavonoids is considered synthetic? That's all Linus

ing used, was ascorbic acid.

Sanr

Sanr, you're quite sure you want only synthetic ascorbic acid and not

natural vitamin C and its bioflavonoids?

You realize that vitamin C is only needed in small amounts if your crucially

necessary natural master antioxidant glutathione is adequate?

Glutathione recycles vitamin C many times; this is not very effective when

glutathione is low.

Why would you avoid Chinese vitamin products? Scared? Not me -- Although I'm

a consultant I still use them myself.

And Corn as a source of raw material? Whazzup? Even GMO Corn and Soy can be

used effectively as raw material without the risk that some people perceive

might exist.

Duncan

> >

> > Alobar:

> > Ascorbic acid is a very short chain molecule and barley passes for

> > Vitamin C compared to that from fresh fruits and vegetables. It does a

> > very good job for what it is intended but when it comes to my own

> > personal

> > use I prefer other products.

> >

>

------------------------------------