Guest guest Posted December 17, 2000 Report Share Posted December 17, 2000 In a message dated 12/17/00 1:57:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, wildthinng@... writes: << nne (Scranton, PA) >> nne! I was born and raised in Carbondale, and my first son was born in Mercy Hospital in Scranton Nice to see a face (ok, a name! LOL) from " home " Especially someone who shares my passion for making toiletries! Happy Holidays to all! Lynne in Vermont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2002 Report Share Posted January 3, 2002 I have wondered the same thing as you. Couldn't we just add the ingredients to a cream base or is a vehicle necessary to make sure the nutrients penetrate the skin? skin care > Hey, I have a couple of questions for yuns. I just finished a book > called " The Wrinkle Cure " by Nichoolas Perricone, M.D., Assistant > Clinical Professor of Dermatology at Yale University School of Medicine. > In the book, he basically says that the following substances in topical > (cream) form would be best for your skin: DMAE, C-ester, Alpha Lipolic > Acid and a new form of Vitamin E called tocotrienols. (He also mentions > Glycolic acid and Retinol, but I am already familiar with these). > My problem is that I can only find two sources which supply a dmae, > c-ester, tocotrienol and/or alpha lipolic acid CREAM. The problem with > the two sources is that they are both suspect. One is none other than > the doctor and author himself, who is pushing a lexus version of his > regiment in very pricey $100 jars. The other supplier is some five and > dime place which claims to have all the great ingredients for only $17. > (hmmm). Personally, I don't want either the lexus version of this shit > or the Walmart version. I'd like to find a quality supplier, like BAC, > that will tell me the specific quantity of each substance per ounce and > who sells it at a realistic price. > > You guys got any advice here? Do you know of a good place to get > strong-dose dmae, ALA and/or c-ester in a cream? How come BAC doesn't > have any quality skin products? Is the only way to get this stuff in > realistic strength is by sending Yale medical professors hundreds of > dollars? > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2002 Report Share Posted January 3, 2002 I have wondered the same thing as you. Couldn't we just add the ingredients to a cream base or is a vehicle necessary to make sure the nutrients penetrate the skin? skin care > Hey, I have a couple of questions for yuns. I just finished a book > called " The Wrinkle Cure " by Nichoolas Perricone, M.D., Assistant > Clinical Professor of Dermatology at Yale University School of Medicine. > In the book, he basically says that the following substances in topical > (cream) form would be best for your skin: DMAE, C-ester, Alpha Lipolic > Acid and a new form of Vitamin E called tocotrienols. (He also mentions > Glycolic acid and Retinol, but I am already familiar with these). > My problem is that I can only find two sources which supply a dmae, > c-ester, tocotrienol and/or alpha lipolic acid CREAM. The problem with > the two sources is that they are both suspect. One is none other than > the doctor and author himself, who is pushing a lexus version of his > regiment in very pricey $100 jars. The other supplier is some five and > dime place which claims to have all the great ingredients for only $17. > (hmmm). Personally, I don't want either the lexus version of this shit > or the Walmart version. I'd like to find a quality supplier, like BAC, > that will tell me the specific quantity of each substance per ounce and > who sells it at a realistic price. > > You guys got any advice here? Do you know of a good place to get > strong-dose dmae, ALA and/or c-ester in a cream? How come BAC doesn't > have any quality skin products? Is the only way to get this stuff in > realistic strength is by sending Yale medical professors hundreds of > dollars? > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2002 Report Share Posted January 3, 2002 I have been searching for a transdermal that will penetrate the stratum corneum for years! Nobody on the lists ever responds when I put out feelers. Maybe there isn't anything that will do this. The size of the molecule and its weight are determinants as to whether it remains in the upper layers of the skin or can penetrate further.(I forget off hand the largest size/weight that will pass through, I can look it up.) As for carrier gels (seems they use gels more than creams for deep penetration- as in testosterone gel, estrogen gel etc etc) I don't know how complex the technology would be to dissolve substances. DMSO is known to penetrate deeply, but it leaves a metallic smell resembling garlic. Some people have questioned the safety of it if used in large quantities. Emu oil is touted to penetrate deeply, but I don't think there are clinical studies on that one. Perhaps we should search out a dermatology forum and ask there. MM _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2002 Report Share Posted January 5, 2002 Whooo, I also looked and did not find a good overall topical skin supplement. My layman's understanding is that topical supplements are hard to stabilize and have short shelf lives, hence only high end solutions that claim to solve the problem or low end useless products that ignore it. My workaround is a PLO gel base with DMAE, Alpha Lipoic Acid, MSM, and a lesser amount of COQ10 and Grapeseed extract due to their pigment. The powders are from BAC and the PLO Gel is from a pharmacy. For the C I have been using a pricey stabilized retail product based on the widespread claim that homemade liquid C oxidizes rapidly. However, I intend to try Twinlab liquid C and ascorbyl palmitate (fat soluble) as lower cost C alternatives. My impression is that whatever skin product you use, PLO Gel will improve the absorbtion. In combination with Lipoic Acid or Retinol it rapidly produces a burning sensation. I mix the ingredients immediately before use for freshness, it is easier than it sounds. My 7 year old used to ask me about the lines in my head (brow wrinkles), but now only Mom enjoys that privilege. > Hey, I have a couple of questions for yuns. I just finished a book > called " The Wrinkle Cure " by Nichoolas Perricone, M.D., Assistant > Clinical Professor of Dermatology at Yale University School of Medicine. > In the book, he basically says that the following substances in topical > (cream) form would be best for your skin: DMAE, C-ester, Alpha Lipolic > Acid and a new form of Vitamin E called tocotrienols. (He also mentions > Glycolic acid and Retinol, but I am already familiar with these). > My problem is that I can only find two sources which supply a dmae, > c-ester, tocotrienol and/or alpha lipolic acid CREAM. The problem with > the two sources is that they are both suspect. One is none other than > the doctor and author himself, who is pushing a lexus version of his > regiment in very pricey $100 jars. The other supplier is some five and > dime place which claims to have all the great ingredients for only $17. > (hmmm). Personally, I don't want either the lexus version of this shit > or the Walmart version. I'd like to find a quality supplier, like BAC, > that will tell me the specific quantity of each substance per ounce and > who sells it at a realistic price. > > You guys got any advice here? Do you know of a good place to get > strong-dose dmae, ALA and/or c-ester in a cream? How come BAC doesn't > have any quality skin products? Is the only way to get this stuff in > realistic strength is by sending Yale medical professors hundreds of > dollars? > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2002 Report Share Posted January 5, 2002 , Do you obtain a doctor's script for the PLO? If so, does the doctor write the script so that you can mix your own formula? Do you observe any benefits from using any of your mixtures? Thanks. Trish ----- Original Message ----- From: " paultarget " <Target@...> > Whooo, > > > My workaround is a PLO gel base with DMAE, Alpha Lipoic Acid, MSM, > and a lesser amount of COQ10 and Grapeseed extract due to their > pigment. The powders are from BAC and the PLO Gel is from a pharmacy. > > My impression is that whatever skin product you use, PLO Gel will > improve the absorbtion. In combination with Lipoic Acid or Retinol > it rapidly produces a burning sensation. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2002 Report Share Posted January 5, 2002 Wow. This is fascinating. Can you help explain it better (as though I were a retard or something). I don't understand how you would mix a gel with a powder. Doesn't that produce something that resembles sand? How does it get into your skin? Don't you have to have a liquid source of the goodies to mix with plo gel? Do you need a prescription for plo gel? Is there any special directions that you follow -- you know, boiling something or using test tubes. You don't have to have a chemistry kit do you? I think I flunked chemistry in high school. Even if I didn't, I certainly don't remember anything about it. So could you spell out everything for me in great detail? Sorry to be such a nuisance, but the day my 8-year old daughter comments on my little forehead wrinkles I have, I think I'll be very sad. So please reply! paultarget wrote: >Whooo, > >I also looked and did not find a good overall topical skin >supplement. My layman's understanding is that topical supplements >are hard to stabilize and have short shelf lives, hence only high end >solutions that claim to solve the problem or low end useless products >that ignore it. > >My workaround is a PLO gel base with DMAE, Alpha Lipoic Acid, MSM, >and a lesser amount of COQ10 and Grapeseed extract due to their >pigment. The powders are from BAC and the PLO Gel is from a pharmacy. > >For the C I have been using a pricey stabilized retail product based >on the widespread claim that homemade liquid C oxidizes rapidly. >However, I intend to try Twinlab liquid C and ascorbyl palmitate (fat >soluble) as lower cost C alternatives. > >My impression is that whatever skin product you use, PLO Gel will >improve the absorbtion. In combination with Lipoic Acid or Retinol >it rapidly produces a burning sensation. > >I mix the ingredients immediately before use for freshness, it is >easier than it sounds. My 7 year old used to ask me about the lines >in my head (brow wrinkles), but now only Mom enjoys that privilege. > > > > > >> Hey, I have a couple of questions for yuns. I just finished a >> >book > >>called " The Wrinkle Cure " by Nichoolas Perricone, M.D., Assistant >>Clinical Professor of Dermatology at Yale University School of >> >Medicine. > >>In the book, he basically says that the following substances in >> >topical > >>(cream) form would be best for your skin: DMAE, C-ester, Alpha >> >Lipolic > >>Acid and a new form of Vitamin E called tocotrienols. (He also >> >mentions > >>Glycolic acid and Retinol, but I am already familiar with these). >> My problem is that I can only find two sources which supply a >> >dmae, > >>c-ester, tocotrienol and/or alpha lipolic acid CREAM. The problem >> >with > >>the two sources is that they are both suspect. One is none other >> >than > >>the doctor and author himself, who is pushing a lexus version of >> >his > >>regiment in very pricey $100 jars. The other supplier is some five >> >and > >>dime place which claims to have all the great ingredients for only >> >$17. > >>(hmmm). Personally, I don't want either the lexus version of this >> >shit > >>or the Walmart version. I'd like to find a quality supplier, like >> >BAC, > >>that will tell me the specific quantity of each substance per ounce >> >and > >>who sells it at a realistic price. >> >> You guys got any advice here? Do you know of a good place to >> >get > >>strong-dose dmae, ALA and/or c-ester in a cream? How come BAC >> >doesn't > >>have any quality skin products? Is the only way to get this stuff >> >in > >>realistic strength is by sending Yale medical professors hundreds >> >of > >>dollars? >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2002 Report Share Posted January 6, 2002 Can you let us know your regime/protocol for this longevity face treatment? My girlfriend and I have given up on all the retail/commercial applications (i.e.. Nu Skin, Enrich, Sheseido, etc.) and have just started applying pure Alovera and pierced-with-a-pin-and-squeezed-out Vitamin E capsules. From what you've written it looks like you've come up with a sure-fire way of reducing those wrinkles and leather patched-blotches without being ripped off with all the ad-hype. What does the BAC company do and supply? Do you have a website for them? What is " PLO " (no cute middle-east snides please)? What is " MSM " ? You mention " Burning sensation... " is that good? Let us know more about your retin+ treatments...pleeeeeaaaasssseeee! Regards, Bill Re: skin care > Whooo, > > I also looked and did not find a good overall topical skin > supplement. My layman's understanding is that topical supplements > are hard to stabilize and have short shelf lives, hence only high end > solutions that claim to solve the problem or low end useless products > that ignore it. > > My workaround is a PLO gel base with DMAE, Alpha Lipoic Acid, MSM, > and a lesser amount of COQ10 and Grapeseed extract due to their > pigment. The powders are from BAC and the PLO Gel is from a pharmacy. > > For the C I have been using a pricey stabilized retail product based > on the widespread claim that homemade liquid C oxidizes rapidly. > However, I intend to try Twinlab liquid C and ascorbyl palmitate (fat > soluble) as lower cost C alternatives. > > My impression is that whatever skin product you use, PLO Gel will > improve the absorbtion. In combination with Lipoic Acid or Retinol > it rapidly produces a burning sensation. > > I mix the ingredients immediately before use for freshness, it is > easier than it sounds. My 7 year old used to ask me about the lines > in my head (brow wrinkles), but now only Mom enjoys that privilege. > > > > > > Hey, I have a couple of questions for yuns. I just finished a > book > > called " The Wrinkle Cure " by Nichoolas Perricone, M.D., Assistant > > Clinical Professor of Dermatology at Yale University School of > Medicine. > > In the book, he basically says that the following substances in > topical > > (cream) form would be best for your skin: DMAE, C-ester, Alpha > Lipolic > > Acid and a new form of Vitamin E called tocotrienols. (He also > mentions > > Glycolic acid and Retinol, but I am already familiar with these). > > My problem is that I can only find two sources which supply a > dmae, > > c-ester, tocotrienol and/or alpha lipolic acid CREAM. The problem > with > > the two sources is that they are both suspect. One is none other > than > > the doctor and author himself, who is pushing a lexus version of > his > > regiment in very pricey $100 jars. The other supplier is some five > and > > dime place which claims to have all the great ingredients for only > $17. > > (hmmm). Personally, I don't want either the lexus version of this > shit > > or the Walmart version. I'd like to find a quality supplier, like > BAC, > > that will tell me the specific quantity of each substance per ounce > and > > who sells it at a realistic price. > > > > You guys got any advice here? Do you know of a good place to > get > > strong-dose dmae, ALA and/or c-ester in a cream? How come BAC > doesn't > > have any quality skin products? Is the only way to get this stuff > in > > realistic strength is by sending Yale medical professors hundreds > of > > dollars? > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2002 Report Share Posted January 6, 2002 Bill, Trish, & Whooo, This is a combined response to most of your questions. PLO gel is " Premium Lecithin Organogel " base. It is used to deliver medication through the skin typically for very young or old patients that can't handle pills. I buy 500g size (lasts maybe 5 months) from a Canadian pharmacy for around $70 delivered. There is a 100g size if you just want to try it. See http://www.globaldrugs.com/pharmacy/6510.htm. (Bill, BAC is vendor at www.beyond-a-century.com selling primarily supplements in powder form. MSM is a sulfur based supplement used in arthritis and skin products.) PLO gel is a great solvent. In earlier topical supplement versions I tried other solvents: water, isopropyl alcohol, oils. Each of these disolves something but PLO get seems to work on almost everything, although it can take 30 seconds or so to dissolve. PLO is also a pleasant feeling odorless cream, while alcohol burns, water drys, and oil is messy. The procedure I use, admittedly arbitrary, is to place 1 fingertip worth of PLO on the palm of one hand (maybe 1 level teaspoon). Then I add roughly the amount of DMAE and lipoic acid that fit in a #1 size capsule. Maybe 300mg each. I also add a lesser amount of MSM, and a pinch of grapeseed extract and CoQ10. I rub the mixture between finger and palm until the grittyness is gone. This takes about 30 seconds, and MSM does not always disolve completely. Then I apply the mixture, now liquid mostly because disolved DMAE forms a liquid, to my face. If there is any grittyness left I rub it on my face until it is disolved. The whole procedure takes maybe 3 minutes. I do it AM and PM, the AM version without CoQ10 and grapeseed extract to avoid the war paint effect. If I use a sufficient amount of lipoic acid, there is a mild burning sensation and flush. I take this as evidence that the mixture is penetrating the skin. This is not my idea - one source I read suggested adding cayenne to your skin product to see if it is being absorbed. The results are far from miraculous. But they are unambiguous. Wrinkles diminished considerably over about 3-4 months, and at 6 months I think there is still very gradual improvement. It is noticable that the remaining undiminished wrinkes are right under the eyes where I do not apply the PLO mixture to avoid stinging. I did not get this result from prior products I tried (Vitamin E from softgel, commercial green tea based product, Neutrogena retinol, a cheap commerial C/antiox product), but I did get some benefit from prescription level Retin-A along with peeling and redness for the first month. I don't recommend this protocol per se as I continually change it. The key is that PLO gel is an effective transdermal delivery system for whatever supplement you choose to absorb, and that by mixing on demand you are getting a vastly more potent active ingredient than available with over the counter preparations. Other ingredients to try include stabilized C, chamomille, aloe, green tea, the plant growth factor in Kinerase, cysteine, glutathione, super oxide dismutase, copper peptides and Vitamin E variants suggested by Whooo. Please let me know if you try any of this how it works out for you. > > > Hey, I have a couple of questions for yuns. I just finished a > > book > > > called " The Wrinkle Cure " by Nichoolas Perricone, M.D., Assistant > > > Clinical Professor of Dermatology at Yale University School of > > Medicine. > > > In the book, he basically says that the following substances in > > topical > > > (cream) form would be best for your skin: DMAE, C-ester, Alpha > > Lipolic > > > Acid and a new form of Vitamin E called tocotrienols. (He also > > mentions > > > Glycolic acid and Retinol, but I am already familiar with these). > > > My problem is that I can only find two sources which supply a > > dmae, > > > c-ester, tocotrienol and/or alpha lipolic acid CREAM. The problem > > with > > > the two sources is that they are both suspect. One is none other > > than > > > the doctor and author himself, who is pushing a lexus version of > > his > > > regiment in very pricey $100 jars. The other supplier is some five > > and > > > dime place which claims to have all the great ingredients for only > > $17. > > > (hmmm). Personally, I don't want either the lexus version of this > > shit > > > or the Walmart version. I'd like to find a quality supplier, like > > BAC, > > > that will tell me the specific quantity of each substance per ounce > > and > > > who sells it at a realistic price. > > > > > > You guys got any advice here? Do you know of a good place to > > get > > > strong-dose dmae, ALA and/or c-ester in a cream? How come BAC > > doesn't > > > have any quality skin products? Is the only way to get this stuff > > in > > > realistic strength is by sending Yale medical professors hundreds > > of > > > dollars? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2002 Report Share Posted January 6, 2002 How to Rejuvinate Your Skin http://www.rxforwellness.com/articlearchives/rxbeautywkinwellness__0.shtml Pregnenolone and DHEA are hormone precursors found in many organs, including skin, which will ultimately be converted into testosterone, estrone, and estradiol (1).* Studies indicate men and women produce less pregnenolone and DHEA as they age, thereby decreasing the amount available to the epidermis (outer layer of skin). This ultimately leads to diminished skin elasticity, firmness and moisture content (2,3).* Current work has revealed the existence of the enzyme systems required for normal biochemical conversion and regulation of epidermal estrogens. This is a state of the art, non-greasy, rapidly absorbed moisturizing cream that is quick drying and provides the skin with essential re-hydrating components. Goldzieher reported increases in epidermis thickness along with a more orderly cell arrangement, elastic fibrils, capillary beds and water content when skin was exposed to topical estrogens (5).* Blau and Kanof noticed similar effects with the estrogen precursor pregnenolone(4).* Normal cellular metabolism, ultraviolet exposure (UV-A and UV-, chemical solvents and environmental toxins have been shown to produce skin damaging free radicals. Alpha-lipoic acid (ALA), a unique fat and water-soluble antioxidant coupled with a patented liposomal preparation containing vitamin C, vitamin E (OxysomesT). This liposomal preparation of proanthocyanidins extracted from grape seeds produce a powerful line-up against the harmful free radicals. Alpha-lipoic acid (ALA) is a potent thiol antioxidant that has shown the potential to protect the skin (10).* The distinctive structure of ALA and liposomes provides enhanced transport across skin layers and cell membranes, while their water and lipid solubility allows effective free radical quenching both inside and outside the cell. This symbiotic relationship is further enhanced by ALA's ability to regenerate glutathione (6)* and various antioxidants like vitamin C and vitamin E, which have been shown to protect against skin damage (9)*, making for the ultimate in free radical eradication. Furthering this " high-tech " formula is the inclusion of Borage Oil via a patented surfactant-free micro-emulsion chosen as the base of this cream. With patented European compounds, this formula was designed to minimize water loss and enhance quick drying without any noticeable oiliness, residue or " tackiness " . This moisturizing cream contains a highly purified grape seed extract containing a 95% oligomeric proanthocyanidin complex that has undergone several laboratory tests to validate its ability to protect the skin from free radical damage. This combination helps restore damaged collagen and elastin to its most resilient functional form (8). Collagen is the primary component of the inside layer of skin (dermis) while elastin gives the skin its strength, smoothness and elasticity. Progesterone acts as a holding point or bond for sealing the cross points of collagen and elastin, similar to how cement holds bricks together in a brick wall. To remove wrinkles from the surface of the skin, we need collagen, elastin and the binding effects of progesterone. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food & Drug Administration (FDA). This product is not intended to diagnose, cure, treat or prevent any disease. References: (1)Ann NY Acad Sci. 650: 363, 1992. (2)Cur Therap Res. 3:469, 1961. (3)JAMA. 186:75, 1963. (4)Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 204:98, 1994 (5)Nut Rev. 55:S44, 1997. (6)J Am Acad Dermatol. 18:714, 1988. (7)Planta Medica. 57:38, 1991. (8)Biochem Pharmacol. 33:3933, 1984. (9)J Am Acad Dermatol.. 38: 45, 1998. (10)Biochem Pharmacol. 52: 627, 1996 Product recommendation: Intimate Skin Vitally yours, Dr H Maher, A.B.A.A.H.P. Editor, Longevity News www.RxforWellness.com " Your FREE Anti Aging Program Online! " Vol 1, Lesson 1 Dr. H. Maher, Editor., " Longevity News " Your FREE Anti-Aging Prescription On-line. RxforWellness.com Re: skin care > > > > Whooo, > > > > I also looked and did not find a good overall topical skin > > supplement. My layman's understanding is that topical supplements > > are hard to stabilize and have short shelf lives, hence only high end > > solutions that claim to solve the problem or low end useless products > > that ignore it. > > > > My workaround is a PLO gel base with DMAE, Alpha Lipoic Acid, MSM, > > and a lesser amount of COQ10 and Grapeseed extract due to their > > pigment. The powders are from BAC and the PLO Gel is from a pharmacy. > > > > For the C I have been using a pricey stabilized retail product based > > on the widespread claim that homemade liquid C oxidizes rapidly. > > However, I intend to try Twinlab liquid C and ascorbyl palmitate (fat > > soluble) as lower cost C alternatives. > > > > My impression is that whatever skin product you use, PLO Gel will > > improve the absorbtion. In combination with Lipoic Acid or Retinol > > it rapidly produces a burning sensation. > > > > I mix the ingredients immediately before use for freshness, it is > > easier than it sounds. My 7 year old used to ask me about the lines > > in my head (brow wrinkles), but now only Mom enjoys that privilege. > > > > > > > > > > > Hey, I have a couple of questions for yuns. I just finished a > > book > > > called " The Wrinkle Cure " by Nichoolas Perricone, M.D., Assistant > > > Clinical Professor of Dermatology at Yale University School of > > Medicine. > > > In the book, he basically says that the following substances in > > topical > > > (cream) form would be best for your skin: DMAE, C-ester, Alpha > > Lipolic > > > Acid and a new form of Vitamin E called tocotrienols. (He also > > mentions > > > Glycolic acid and Retinol, but I am already familiar with these). > > > My problem is that I can only find two sources which supply a > > dmae, > > > c-ester, tocotrienol and/or alpha lipolic acid CREAM. The problem > > with > > > the two sources is that they are both suspect. One is none other > > than > > > the doctor and author himself, who is pushing a lexus version of > > his > > > regiment in very pricey $100 jars. The other supplier is some five > > and > > > dime place which claims to have all the great ingredients for only > > $17. > > > (hmmm). Personally, I don't want either the lexus version of this > > shit > > > or the Walmart version. I'd like to find a quality supplier, like > > BAC, > > > that will tell me the specific quantity of each substance per ounce > > and > > > who sells it at a realistic price. > > > > > > You guys got any advice here? Do you know of a good place to > > get > > > strong-dose dmae, ALA and/or c-ester in a cream? How come BAC > > doesn't > > > have any quality skin products? Is the only way to get this stuff > > in > > > realistic strength is by sending Yale medical professors hundreds > > of > > > dollars? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2002 Report Share Posted January 6, 2002 Amen brother! I can't wait to try your nuclear gel! Now that's a man with a plan. That's why I subscribe to these lists. Power to the people! After three months or so of Mideast paste, I will henceforth report to all members of the group on the condition of my face. I know you just can't wait. :-P paultarget wrote: >Bill, Trish, & Whooo, > >This is a combined response to most of your questions. > >PLO gel is " Premium Lecithin Organogel " base. It is used to deliver >medication through the skin typically for very young or old patients >that can't handle pills. I buy 500g size (lasts maybe 5 months) from >a Canadian pharmacy for around $70 delivered. There is a 100g size >if you just want to try it. See >http://www.globaldrugs.com/pharmacy/6510.htm. > >(Bill, BAC is vendor at www.beyond-a-century.com selling primarily >supplements in powder form. MSM is a sulfur based supplement used in >arthritis and skin products.) > >PLO gel is a great solvent. In earlier topical supplement versions I >tried other solvents: water, isopropyl alcohol, oils. Each of these >disolves something but PLO get seems to work on almost everything, >although it can take 30 seconds or so to dissolve. > >PLO is also a pleasant feeling odorless cream, while alcohol burns, >water drys, and oil is messy. > >The procedure I use, admittedly arbitrary, is to place 1 fingertip >worth of PLO on the palm of one hand (maybe 1 level teaspoon). Then >I add roughly the amount of DMAE and lipoic acid that fit in a #1 >size capsule. Maybe 300mg each. I also add a lesser amount of MSM, >and a pinch of grapeseed extract and CoQ10. I rub the mixture >between finger and palm until the grittyness is gone. This takes >about 30 seconds, and MSM does not always disolve completely. > >Then I apply the mixture, now liquid mostly because disolved DMAE >forms a liquid, to my face. If there is any grittyness left I rub it >on my face until it is disolved. The whole procedure takes maybe 3 >minutes. I do it AM and PM, the AM version without CoQ10 and >grapeseed extract to avoid the war paint effect. > >If I use a sufficient amount of lipoic acid, there is a mild burning >sensation and flush. I take this as evidence that the mixture is >penetrating the skin. This is not my idea - one source I read >suggested adding cayenne to your skin product to see if it is being >absorbed. > >The results are far from miraculous. But they are unambiguous. >Wrinkles diminished considerably over about 3-4 months, and at 6 >months I think there is still very gradual improvement. It is >noticable that the remaining undiminished wrinkes are right under the >eyes where I do not apply the PLO mixture to avoid stinging. > >I did not get this result from prior products I tried (Vitamin E from >softgel, commercial green tea based product, Neutrogena retinol, a >cheap commerial C/antiox product), but I did get some benefit from >prescription level Retin-A along with peeling and redness for the >first month. > >I don't recommend this protocol per se as I continually change it. >The key is that PLO gel is an effective transdermal delivery system >for whatever supplement you choose to absorb, and that by mixing on >demand you are getting a vastly more potent active ingredient than >available with over the counter preparations. > >Other ingredients to try include stabilized C, chamomille, aloe, >green tea, the plant growth factor in Kinerase, cysteine, >glutathione, super oxide dismutase, copper peptides and Vitamin E >variants suggested by Whooo. > >Please let me know if you try any of this how it works out for you. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2002 Report Share Posted January 7, 2002 Hi ! How about if I mix the human Epidermal Growth Factor (hEGF)together with the PLO gel, does it dissolved ?? Please advise.... Thanks a lot ! WKK Re: skin care > Bill, Trish, & Whooo, > > This is a combined response to most of your questions. > > PLO gel is " Premium Lecithin Organogel " base. It is used to deliver > medication through the skin typically for very young or old patients > that can't handle pills. I buy 500g size (lasts maybe 5 months) from > a Canadian pharmacy for around $70 delivered. There is a 100g size > if you just want to try it. See > http://www.globaldrugs.com/pharmacy/6510.htm. > > (Bill, BAC is vendor at www.beyond-a-century.com selling primarily > supplements in powder form. MSM is a sulfur based supplement used in > arthritis and skin products.) > > PLO gel is a great solvent. In earlier topical supplement versions I > tried other solvents: water, isopropyl alcohol, oils. Each of these > disolves something but PLO get seems to work on almost everything, > although it can take 30 seconds or so to dissolve. > > PLO is also a pleasant feeling odorless cream, while alcohol burns, > water drys, and oil is messy. > > The procedure I use, admittedly arbitrary, is to place 1 fingertip > worth of PLO on the palm of one hand (maybe 1 level teaspoon). Then > I add roughly the amount of DMAE and lipoic acid that fit in a #1 > size capsule. Maybe 300mg each. I also add a lesser amount of MSM, > and a pinch of grapeseed extract and CoQ10. I rub the mixture > between finger and palm until the grittyness is gone. This takes > about 30 seconds, and MSM does not always disolve completely. > > Then I apply the mixture, now liquid mostly because disolved DMAE > forms a liquid, to my face. If there is any grittyness left I rub it > on my face until it is disolved. The whole procedure takes maybe 3 > minutes. I do it AM and PM, the AM version without CoQ10 and > grapeseed extract to avoid the war paint effect. > > If I use a sufficient amount of lipoic acid, there is a mild burning > sensation and flush. I take this as evidence that the mixture is > penetrating the skin. This is not my idea - one source I read > suggested adding cayenne to your skin product to see if it is being > absorbed. > > The results are far from miraculous. But they are unambiguous. > Wrinkles diminished considerably over about 3-4 months, and at 6 > months I think there is still very gradual improvement. It is > noticable that the remaining undiminished wrinkes are right under the > eyes where I do not apply the PLO mixture to avoid stinging. > > I did not get this result from prior products I tried (Vitamin E from > softgel, commercial green tea based product, Neutrogena retinol, a > cheap commerial C/antiox product), but I did get some benefit from > prescription level Retin-A along with peeling and redness for the > first month. > > I don't recommend this protocol per se as I continually change it. > The key is that PLO gel is an effective transdermal delivery system > for whatever supplement you choose to absorb, and that by mixing on > demand you are getting a vastly more potent active ingredient than > available with over the counter preparations. > > Other ingredients to try include stabilized C, chamomille, aloe, > green tea, the plant growth factor in Kinerase, cysteine, > glutathione, super oxide dismutase, copper peptides and Vitamin E > variants suggested by Whooo. > > Please let me know if you try any of this how it works out for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey, I have a couple of questions for yuns. I just finished > a > > > book > > > > called " The Wrinkle Cure " by Nichoolas Perricone, M.D., > Assistant > > > > Clinical Professor of Dermatology at Yale University School of > > > Medicine. > > > > In the book, he basically says that the following substances in > > > topical > > > > (cream) form would be best for your skin: DMAE, C-ester, Alpha > > > Lipolic > > > > Acid and a new form of Vitamin E called tocotrienols. (He also > > > mentions > > > > Glycolic acid and Retinol, but I am already familiar with > these). > > > > My problem is that I can only find two sources which supply > a > > > dmae, > > > > c-ester, tocotrienol and/or alpha lipolic acid CREAM. The > problem > > > with > > > > the two sources is that they are both suspect. One is none other > > > than > > > > the doctor and author himself, who is pushing a lexus version of > > > his > > > > regiment in very pricey $100 jars. The other supplier is some > five > > > and > > > > dime place which claims to have all the great ingredients for > only > > > $17. > > > > (hmmm). Personally, I don't want either the lexus version of > this > > > shit > > > > or the Walmart version. I'd like to find a quality supplier, > like > > > BAC, > > > > that will tell me the specific quantity of each substance per > ounce > > > and > > > > who sells it at a realistic price. > > > > > > > > You guys got any advice here? Do you know of a good place to > > > get > > > > strong-dose dmae, ALA and/or c-ester in a cream? How come BAC > > > doesn't > > > > have any quality skin products? Is the only way to get this > stuff > > > in > > > > realistic strength is by sending Yale medical professors > hundreds > > > of > > > > dollars? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2002 Report Share Posted January 7, 2002 Thank you for your response . Have you considered or experimented with pure Aloe Vera as a transdermal agent? Trish Re: skin care > Bill, Trish, & Whooo, > > This is a combined response to most of your questions. > > PLO gel is " Premium Lecithin Organogel " base. It is used to deliver > medication through the skin typically for very young or old patients > that can't handle pills. I buy 500g size (lasts maybe 5 months) from > a Canadian pharmacy for around $70 delivered. There is a 100g size > if you just want to try it. See > http://www.globaldrugs.com/pharmacy/6510.htm. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2002 Report Share Posted January 7, 2002 Dear Wong KK Why would you wish to do that? Maintain skin thickness and cell division? interesting.... MM _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2002 Report Share Posted January 7, 2002 Trish, I have not tried Aloe Vera as a transdermal agent. I have used fresh Aloe vera from my garden as well as 5X aloe vera gel concentrate solo, and it is well absorbed. The problem I would expect is that it will act like a water solvent and not dissolve fat based supplements. The Aloe would get absorbed but leave the fats it is not bound to behind. If you try dissolving lipoic acid or CoQ10 in water you will see what I mean. Have you had any luck with Aloe vera or other bases? > Thank you for your response . Have you considered or experimented with > pure Aloe Vera as a transdermal agent? > Trish > Re: skin care > > > > Bill, Trish, & Whooo, > > > > This is a combined response to most of your questions. > > > > PLO gel is " Premium Lecithin Organogel " base. It is used to deliver > > medication through the skin typically for very young or old patients > > that can't handle pills. I buy 500g size (lasts maybe 5 months) from > > a Canadian pharmacy for around $70 delivered. There is a 100g size > > if you just want to try it. See > > http://www.globaldrugs.com/pharmacy/6510.htm. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2002 Report Share Posted January 7, 2002 Whooo, Since you have decided to go nuclear despite the terrorist assocation here are a few extra face pointers. Try introducing each powder starting with DMAE for a few days. DMAE is mildest. Just simple prudence. DMAE is supposed to improve nerve transmission to skin muscles thereby reducing aged induce looseness or sagging. Be aware of overall tightening changes in addition to anti-wrinkle effects. Consider adding DHEA and pregnenolone (estro/testo precursor). Keep the DHEA low dose unless you intend it as a general supplement. Any woman who is interested might consider estrogenic plants such as fenugreek or yam - the same ingredients used for breast enhancement. Melatonin is also skin protective; low dose before bedtime use would make sense to me. See http://www.smartbodyz.com/skin-cancer- text.htm - it is an LEF reference. If we are to believe LEF, the Yale Dr., and my trial and error I think this stuff works. As long as you have the discipline to use it routinely and a willingness to keep trying until the supplement that works best for you ends up in the mix. > > >Bill, Trish, & Whooo, > > > >This is a combined response to most of your questions. > > > >PLO gel is " Premium Lecithin Organogel " base. It is used to deliver > >medication through the skin typically for very young or old patients > >that can't handle pills. I buy 500g size (lasts maybe 5 months) from > >a Canadian pharmacy for around $70 delivered. There is a 100g size > >if you just want to try it. See > >http://www.globaldrugs.com/pharmacy/6510.htm. > > > >(Bill, BAC is vendor at www.beyond-a-century.com selling primarily > >supplements in powder form. MSM is a sulfur based supplement used in > >arthritis and skin products.) > > > >PLO gel is a great solvent. In earlier topical supplement versions I > >tried other solvents: water, isopropyl alcohol, oils. Each of these > >disolves something but PLO get seems to work on almost everything, > >although it can take 30 seconds or so to dissolve. > > > >PLO is also a pleasant feeling odorless cream, while alcohol burns, > >water drys, and oil is messy. > > > >The procedure I use, admittedly arbitrary, is to place 1 fingertip > >worth of PLO on the palm of one hand (maybe 1 level teaspoon). Then > >I add roughly the amount of DMAE and lipoic acid that fit in a #1 > >size capsule. Maybe 300mg each. I also add a lesser amount of MSM, > >and a pinch of grapeseed extract and CoQ10. I rub the mixture > >between finger and palm until the grittyness is gone. This takes > >about 30 seconds, and MSM does not always disolve completely. > > > >Then I apply the mixture, now liquid mostly because disolved DMAE > >forms a liquid, to my face. If there is any grittyness left I rub it > >on my face until it is disolved. The whole procedure takes maybe 3 > >minutes. I do it AM and PM, the AM version without CoQ10 and > >grapeseed extract to avoid the war paint effect. > > > >If I use a sufficient amount of lipoic acid, there is a mild burning > >sensation and flush. I take this as evidence that the mixture is > >penetrating the skin. This is not my idea - one source I read > >suggested adding cayenne to your skin product to see if it is being > >absorbed. > > > >The results are far from miraculous. But they are unambiguous. > >Wrinkles diminished considerably over about 3-4 months, and at 6 > >months I think there is still very gradual improvement. It is > >noticable that the remaining undiminished wrinkes are right under the > >eyes where I do not apply the PLO mixture to avoid stinging. > > > >I did not get this result from prior products I tried (Vitamin E from > >softgel, commercial green tea based product, Neutrogena retinol, a > >cheap commerial C/antiox product), but I did get some benefit from > >prescription level Retin-A along with peeling and redness for the > >first month. > > > >I don't recommend this protocol per se as I continually change it. > >The key is that PLO gel is an effective transdermal delivery system > >for whatever supplement you choose to absorb, and that by mixing on > >demand you are getting a vastly more potent active ingredient than > >available with over the counter preparations. > > > >Other ingredients to try include stabilized C, chamomille, aloe, > >green tea, the plant growth factor in Kinerase, cysteine, > >glutathione, super oxide dismutase, copper peptides and Vitamin E > >variants suggested by Whooo. > > > >Please let me know if you try any of this how it works out for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2002 Report Share Posted January 8, 2002 Thanks ! Hey, no one has mentioned l-carnosine. I bet it would be good to dissolve that into your face? I think there is an aussi product on the market that uses this strategy based on the cross-linking claim. If I recall correctly, there were some people in here or anti-aging who were experimenting with that. That wasn't you was it? paultarget wrote: >Whooo, > >Since you have decided to go nuclear despite the terrorist assocation >here are a few extra face pointers. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2002 Report Share Posted January 8, 2002 Hello Whoooo! I am interested in Carnosine as a topical antiaging agent but couldn't locate a good transdermal carrier. I tried supposedly deep penetrating emu oil, and found it really greasy. The DMSO gel is stinky. I'll order the PLO when in the States in a month. Am curious if it will dissolve in gel as readily as water. MM _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2002 Report Share Posted January 8, 2002 Whooo, Carnosine is a great suggestion. Thanks to you I will incorporate that plus the E. Lipoic acid is also cross link friendly for those who choose not to invest in Carnosine. I'm not the Aussi Beta Alistine user. The formulation I saw had sugar and other questionable extras. I would expect sugar to offset Carnosine's AGE reduction, not to mention attracting flies. I missed the aminos too. Proline, Glycine, and Lysine are all collagen supportive. And oral chlorella (poor man's Vivida) is supposed to be face positive, although topically a green face would not be pretty. Any more suggestions on ingredients or other face positive practices? Did anyone try the vacuum thing from Anti-Aging? > Thanks ! Hey, no one has mentioned l-carnosine. I bet it would > be good to dissolve that into your face? I think there is an aussi > product on the market that uses this strategy based on the cross- linking > claim. If I recall correctly, there were some people in here or > anti-aging who were experimenting with that. That wasn't you was it? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2002 Report Share Posted January 8, 2002 Does anyone know of a GOOD skin care product with Lipoic acid? Many claim they do but then you read the ingredients and it is the last ingredient and may not be formulated correctly to carry it through the skin. Re: skin care > Whooo, > > Carnosine is a great suggestion. Thanks to you I will incorporate > that plus the E. Lipoic acid is also cross link friendly for those > who choose not to invest in Carnosine. > > I'm not the Aussi Beta Alistine user. The formulation I saw had > sugar and other questionable extras. I would expect sugar to offset > Carnosine's AGE reduction, not to mention attracting flies. > > I missed the aminos too. Proline, Glycine, and Lysine are all > collagen supportive. And oral chlorella (poor man's Vivida) is > supposed to be face positive, although topically a green face would > not be pretty. > > Any more suggestions on ingredients or other face positive practices? > Did anyone try the vacuum thing from Anti-Aging? > > > > > > Thanks ! Hey, no one has mentioned l-carnosine. I bet it > would > > be good to dissolve that into your face? I think there is an aussi > > product on the market that uses this strategy based on the cross- > linking > > claim. If I recall correctly, there were some people in here or > > anti-aging who were experimenting with that. That wasn't you was > it? > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 What about plo gel, bob? (premium lecithin organogel) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 Bob, I tried distilled water, isopropyl alcohol, emu oil, olive oil, virgin coconut oil, DMSO, and PLO gel as transdermal solvents for topical supplement application although not in the exact proportion you suggest. I cannot tell with all ingredients, but in sufficient quantity alpha lipoic acid produces a burning sensation when it is carried into the skin. I test similarly with cayenne. The speed and degree of burning and flushing demonstrate penetration for these ingredients. My own finding was that water and alcohol are drying, olive and emu oil are greasy, and DMSO has a mildly unpleasant odor. I found the combination of PLO gel and virigin coconut oil works well without unpleasant side effect. PLO was the most effective carrier and global solvent, while coconut oil prevents drying and seems to stimulate cirulation. PLO gel combines pluronic gel that dissolves water based and lecithin oil that dissolves oil based. It works well with all the powders you mentioned although high pigment powders like green tea have an undesirable war paint effect. Would you please explain the cancer risk of using topical E tocotrienols in greater detail as this is a component of my current mix. > I've been away from the group for a while but have seen several requests for > a mix that encourages transdermal absorption. > > Please understand that the stratum corneum is hydrophobic. An intact stratum > corneum won't allow transit of water-soluble materials. > Oil-soluble materials will diffuse through at a rate inversely proportional > to their molecular weight (approximately). Most of the oil-soluble > antioxidants and prohormones take 1-3 days to reach equilibrium and daily > bathing wastes most of the applied product. > > There are hundreds of compounds termed absorption enhancers that will either > dissolve the higher molecular weight products and enable their absorption or > temporarily disrupt the stratum corneum to allow diffusion of water- soluble > materials. Isopropyl myristate, commonly found in pre-shave compounds is an > example of the former while DMSO is an example of the latter. Propylene > glycol does a little of both. > > There are proprietary gels and creams used by compounding pharmacies but one > must remember that different active compounds require different absorption > enhancers, none are perfect. > > Most of the absorption enhancers leave an oily/sticky film on the skin. My > current preferred product for oil-soluble compounds is 20% MCT and 20% DMSO > dissolved in 99% isopropyl alcohol. More MCT separates out and more DMSO > destroys the stratum corneum leading to a sunburn-like peeling and > simultaneous weeping of tissue fluids. Those with dry skin can add propylene > glycol or glycerine. Too much of those leaves a sticky feel. Adding any > water causes the MCT to separate. > > Some water-soluble compounds that are also soluble in alcohol will dissolve > in the above mixture. For the rest, I use a variable mix of 70% isopropyl > alcohol and distilled water sufficient to dissolve the active agent with 20% > DMSO and sufficient glycerine to avoid drying out the skin over time. > > Perricones mixture is mostly oil-soluble but I haven't found a > perfect solvent yet. Creams are easier to spread than liquids but otherwise > have no real advantage. While we seek the perfect carrier, the active > ingredients mentioned are easily acquired. > > The water soluble DMAE tartarate is available from BAC or Kilosports and the > tartarate ion is also an excellent beta-hydroxy agent. Over time, the DMAE > degrades causing a fishy smell. > > The c-ester is simple oil-soluble ascorbyl palmitate available from BAC. > Don't confuse it with the misrepresented and overpriced Ester-C. > > Tocotrienols have not been shown to absorb well through the skin. Since > there are at least a few studies showing that topical vitamin E increases > rather than decreases skin cancer, I'd avoid that entire class of compounds. > > Alpha lipoic acid, available in bulk from BAC can be delivered in either a > water or oil base. Other obvious compounds are vitamin C which breaks down > quickly but which is well supported by peer-reviewed research, MSM a > relative of DMSO, and green tea extract which has been shown to protect > against short and long term sun damage at 2% concentration. My latest > experimental mix uses olive oil instead of MCT because it too has been shown > to protect against sun damage. The olive odor takes some getting used to and > I can't recommend it to anyone else. > > Just keep experimenting. Since none of Perricones " active " ingredients is > supported by peer-reviewed research, any one of us can likely do better than > he. > > Bob Cruder - Denver USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 Hey, I have that too! I just never knew what it was called. I found this site and a few others via Google: http://www.keratosispilaris.org/. Sounds like there might be some things to try to see if it gets better. Thanks for putting a name on it for me. -- Skin Care Does anyone out there know anything about Keratosis pilaris? It's this awful bumply looking skin on the upper arms(in my case). I've always had it, but since I started working out it's gotten worse. When I do my first set of bi curls, my upper arms turn flaming red and start itching. The dermatologist says there's nothing you can do about it, but I wondered if anyone had any ideas. I'm willing to try anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 You know, I have always had bumps on the back of my upper arms and never knew what they were. They have just always been there....except when I was pregnant...my skin was great then and all cleared up. I'll have to look that up....surprised there is nothing you can do about them. , , and Maisy SeeMaisy@... Skin Care Does anyone out there know anything about Keratosis pilaris? It's this awful bumply looking skin on the upper arms(in my case). I've always had it, but since I started working out it's gotten worse. When I do my first set of bi curls, my upper arms turn flaming red and start itching. The dermatologist says there's nothing you can do about it, but I wondered if anyone had any ideas. I'm willing to try anything. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 they say it's genetic Theilacker wrote: > You know, I have always had bumps on the back of my upper arms and never > knew what they were. They have just always been there....except when I was > pregnant...my skin was great then and all cleared up. I'll have to look > that up....surprised there is nothing you can do about them. > > , , and Maisy > > > > > > SeeMaisy@... > > Skin Care > > > > Does anyone out there know anything about Keratosis pilaris? It's this > awful bumply looking skin on the upper arms(in my case). I've always > had it, but since I started working out it's gotten worse. When I do > my first set of bi curls, my upper arms turn flaming red and start > itching. The dermatologist says there's nothing you can do about it, > but I wondered if anyone had any ideas. I'm willing to try anything. > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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