EMF

July 8, 2006

" Doyon " wrote:

>

> Sara, I have a very strong suspician that the Insurance Companies

had there hand in creating the criteria for the diagnosis used for

CFS in the USA - since they realize that this epidemic could in fact

bankrupt their companies. Dr. Gerald Goldberg is predicting that

within the next 5-6 years the health-care systems of most

industrialied countries will collapse. I have a feeling that he is

right.

> paul

As someone who was standing there when " CFS " was created, I can

tell you that the insurance companies had no hand in it, although

they recognized it and starting writing disclaimers right away.

It was pretty unfair that a doctor could tell you that " CFS doesn't

exist " and yet you couldn't use that argument to get an insurance

company from cancelling your coverage for being diagnosed with

CFS: " How can I be disqualified for having CFS if CFS doesn't even

exist? "

This whole " CFS " thing has gone a long way from when it was about

twenty of us in Incline, hasn't it?

Who'd a thunk it?

-

July 8, 2006

" Doyon " wrote:

>

> Sara, I have a very strong suspician that the Insurance Companies

had there hand in creating the criteria for the diagnosis used for

CFS in the USA - since they realize that this epidemic could in fact

bankrupt their companies. Dr. Gerald Goldberg is predicting that

within the next 5-6 years the health-care systems of most

industrialied countries will collapse. I have a feeling that he is

right.

> paul

As someone who was standing there when " CFS " was created, I can

tell you that the insurance companies had no hand in it, although

they recognized it and starting writing disclaimers right away.

It was pretty unfair that a doctor could tell you that " CFS doesn't

exist " and yet you couldn't use that argument to get an insurance

company from cancelling your coverage for being diagnosed with

CFS: " How can I be disqualified for having CFS if CFS doesn't even

exist? "

This whole " CFS " thing has gone a long way from when it was about

twenty of us in Incline, hasn't it?

Who'd a thunk it?

-

July 8, 2006

It's a fact however that CFS existed long before Incline Village, with outbreaks

in the

1930's in the UK, and the one in Punta Gorda (sp) Florida in 1956-57...

Some suggest it goes back hundreds of years, but of course there is little to

document

those cases...

> >

> > Sara, I have a very strong suspician that the Insurance Companies

> had there hand in creating the criteria for the diagnosis used for

> CFS in the USA - since they realize that this epidemic could in fact

> bankrupt their companies. Dr. Gerald Goldberg is predicting that

> within the next 5-6 years the health-care systems of most

> industrialied countries will collapse. I have a feeling that he is

> right.

> > paul

>

> As someone who was standing there when " CFS " was created, I can

> tell you that the insurance companies had no hand in it, although

> they recognized it and starting writing disclaimers right away.

> It was pretty unfair that a doctor could tell you that " CFS doesn't

> exist " and yet you couldn't use that argument to get an insurance

> company from cancelling your coverage for being diagnosed with

> CFS: " How can I be disqualified for having CFS if CFS doesn't even

> exist? "

>

> This whole " CFS " thing has gone a long way from when it was about

> twenty of us in Incline, hasn't it?

> Who'd a thunk it?

> -

>

July 8, 2006

Wow, this is the first time I have heard this about the EMF-caused 'flu'

that triggered CFS. I was definitely part of this cohort group, as I

got this exact flu in November of 1996, which started my CFS onset. I

believe it was a bug as well as the EMF, somehow they formed a binary

type of situation.

Maybe what we are discovering on this EMF thread is that microwave EMF

can be a trigger for chronic CFS. Probably everything else we know

about CFS is still true, we still have glutathione depletion and mercury

poisoning bad mold genes, hypercoag defects, etc. And for some people

they may not get CFS until something like EMF plus some bug push them

over the edge.

I don't really care whether we ever untangle this mess, only whether we

can find out how to get well. And if that includes chelating mercury,

then great. If it includes building glutathione, killing lyme, avoiding

mold and EMF, then that is great too. If it includes genetic profiling

for methylation and treating weak areas, that is fine. Whatever it

takes. All of this info is important I think, this is not a contest.

--Kurt

Re: EMF

> How close to a cell tower would one have to be? I lived in a small

town and

> don't recall any towers anywhere around in the mid 90s.

a, that's a difficult question to answer since I believe different

people to different

levels of microwave radiaiton. I saw an experiment here in Japan where I

doctor used a

Foma cell phone (by DoCoMo) and held it up and walked toward a woman who

had her

eyes closed. As he got closer the women sensed something and fell

backwards. Women,

generally, seem to be more sensitive to the microwave radiation than

men. (This might

also explain why more women get CFS than men.)

Also, different towers emit different amounts of radiation. Japan uses

short-range,

American uses mid-range, and Europe uses long-range antennas. Naturally,

Europe's

antennas are stronger since they have to emit further.

In 1996, cell phones towers were put up about every 10 square miles

across the majority

of the USA - which would place that in the mid 90s.

Please read the following, EMF Killing Fields, by Arthur Firstenburg:

http://www.mindfull

<http://www.mindfully.org/Technology/2004/Electromagnetic-Fields-EMF1jun

04.htm> y.org/Technology/2004/Electromagnetic-Fields-EMF1jun04.htm

_ " But in July 1996, to my dismay, I learned that an innovation was

coming to my city,

which threatened to make it impossible to avoid exposure any more.

At that time, cell phones were still a luxury item that only worked in

some locations.

People were not accustomed to staying connected whenever they left their

home, and even

at home most still had a cord, not an antenna, attached to their

telephone. Most were not

accustomed to holding devices that emit microwave radiation next to

their brain. In 1996,

the telecommunications industry began a marketing campaign designed to

change all that.

For Christmas that year, all over the country, digital cell phones were

going to be on a lot

of shopping lists. And to make them more practical, tens of thousands of

antennae were

going to be erected on towers, buildings, church steeples and lampposts

all over the

country before Christmas, and hundreds of thousands more during the next

few years._ "

" _.....on November 14 1996, Omnipoint, New York City's first digital

cellular provider, did

open for business, broadcasting from thousands of antennae newly erected

on the

rooftops of apartment buildings. According to the health authorities, an

early flu hit New

York City - but not Boston, and not Philadelphia - on about 15 November.

The flu was

severe and ran a prolonged course, often dragging on for months instead

of the usual two

weeks.

At Christmas time, the Cellular Phone Task Force placed a small

classified ad in a free

weekly newspaper. It read: 'If you have been ill since 11/15/96 with any

of the following:

eye pain, insomnia, dry lips, swollen throat, pressure or pain in the

chest, headaches,

dizziness, nausea, shakiness, other aches and pains, or flu that won't

go away, you may be

a victim of a new microwave system blanketing the city. We need to hear

from you.' And

we did hear from them. Hundreds called, men, women, whites, blacks,

Asians, Latinos,

doctors, lawyers, teachers, stockbrokers, airline stewards, computer

operators. Most had

woken up suddenly in mid-November, thinking they were having a stroke or

a heart attack

or a nervous breakdown, and were relieved to know they were not alone

and not crazy.

Later, I analysed weekly mortality statistics, which the Centres for

Disease Control publish

for122 US cities. Each of dozens of cities recorded a 10-25 per cent

increase in mortality,

lasting two to three months, beginning on the day in 1996 or 1997 on

which that city's

first digital cell phone network began commercial service...._ "

" _...I learned that in February 1996, Congress had passed a law

prohibiting local

governments from denying permits for cell phone antennae because of

environmental

concerns - so long as they comply with Federal Communications Commission

(FCC) rules.

I also learned that the FCC had just issued regulations setting public

exposure limits for

microwave radiation at levels at least ten thousand times higher than

levels which,

according to the Environmental Protection Agency, were causing reports

of illness from all

over the world. Levels that are at least ten thousand times higher than

the levels that had

forced me to leave behind my home, my family, and my friends, and to run

for my life,

never to be able to return home again....._ "

July 8, 2006

a,

You may have had radar and/or microwave exposures then from other

sources as well, it was not just cell phones. Radar exposure was

significant in the 60s. I grew up on military bases in the 60s and

probably had plenty of that exposure, along with all types of toxins,

and military kids do have higher illness rates. The military and large

communications carriers also started placing large microwave

transmission/repeater systems up in the early 80s. In fact a major

system was installed around Tahoe/Incline also in the early 80s. And

people in the exposure line were not informed of that fact. You could

be rural and be in a direct exposure line, impossible to say unless you

had inside information.

Also, even ordinary household currents can be a factor for some people,

so you had that exposure all along. And as the EMF studies show, there

are individual and probably genetic factors in EMF susceptibility. So

if you are susceptible, you may have been reacting to this for decades,

which might have lowered resistance to the other triggers. But this is

not universal, EMF probably is a subset situation with CFS, like most of

the other significant co-factors we are finding.

One way to tell is to get out of EMF exposure and see how you feel after

a few days/weeks.

--Kurt

Re: EMF

Kurt,

Here are more likely triggers following the exposure to borrelia in

1972.

Further tick bites.

Mycoplasma infection with walking pneumonia.

Airplane trip to Europe

Working in a mold contaminated building

How close to a cell tower would one have to be? I lived in a small town

and

don't recall any towers anywhere around in the mid 90s.

a

July 8, 2006

" kdrbrill " wrote:

>

> It's a fact however that CFS existed long before Incline Village,

with outbreaks in the 1930's in the UK, and the one in Punta Gorda

(sp) Florida in 1956-57...

>

> Some suggest it goes back hundreds of years, but of course there

is little to document those cases...

>

There were certainly many illnesses in the past that people suspect

were probably CFS, but they went under various names which run the

gamut from " Soldiers Heart " to " Akureyri disease " to " Infectious

Venulitis " to " Neurasthenia " - and a few hundred more.

There was no " CFS " until the Holmes study 1988 when the syndrome

parameters were collated into an medical entity and given that term.

All the people who say " CFS existed before... " heard about CFS

after that time, and reached the conclusion that whatever they

called their illness is the same thing that Dr Cheney and Dr

were describing.

If you trace the history of CFS, you'll find that the syndrome

collation and creation goes back to a very specific event and

certain individuals who put it together.

" CFS " was not originally created as a " catchall " that the CDC just

vaguely sat down one day and decided to apply to anyone who

complains of being persistently tired.

That came later.

Don't forget, everyone in Incline also " had CFS " before CFS was

created:

" Truckee Crud " " Tahoe Mystery Disease " " Incline Village

Disease " " Yuppie Flu " " CEBV "

-

July 8, 2006

Anyone else out there with onset in 1996?

paul

>

> Wow, this is the first time I have heard this about the EMF-caused

'flu'

> that triggered CFS. I was definitely part of this cohort group, as

I

> got this exact flu in November of 1996, which started my CFS onset.

I

> believe it was a bug as well as the EMF, somehow they formed a

binary

> type of situation.

>

> Maybe what we are discovering on this EMF thread is that microwave

EMF

> can be a trigger for chronic CFS. Probably everything else we know

> about CFS is still true, we still have glutathione depletion and

mercury

> poisoning bad mold genes, hypercoag defects, etc. And for some

people

> they may not get CFS until something like EMF plus some bug push

them

> over the edge.

>

> I don't really care whether we ever untangle this mess, only

whether we

> can find out how to get well. And if that includes chelating

mercury,

> then great. If it includes building glutathione, killing lyme,

avoiding

> mold and EMF, then that is great too. If it includes genetic

profiling

> for methylation and treating weak areas, that is fine. Whatever it

> takes. All of this info is important I think, this is not a

contest.

>

> --Kurt

>

> Re: EMF

>

> > How close to a cell tower would one have to be? I lived in a

small

> town and

> > don't recall any towers anywhere around in the mid 90s.

>

> a, that's a difficult question to answer since I believe

different

> people to different

> levels of microwave radiaiton. I saw an experiment here in Japan

where I

> doctor used a

> Foma cell phone (by DoCoMo) and held it up and walked toward a

woman who

> had her

> eyes closed. As he got closer the women sensed something and fell

> backwards. Women,

> generally, seem to be more sensitive to the microwave radiation

than

> men. (This might

> also explain why more women get CFS than men.)

>

> Also, different towers emit different amounts of radiation. Japan

uses

> short-range,

> American uses mid-range, and Europe uses long-range antennas.

Naturally,

> Europe's

> antennas are stronger since they have to emit further.

>

> In 1996, cell phones towers were put up about every 10 square miles

> across the majority

> of the USA - which would place that in the mid 90s.

>

> Please read the following, EMF Killing Fields, by Arthur

Firstenburg:

>

> http://www.mindfull

> <http://www.mindfully.org/Technology/2004/Electromagnetic-Fields-

EMF1jun

> 04.htm> y.org/Technology/2004/Electromagnetic-Fields-EMF1jun04.htm

>

> _ " But in July 1996, to my dismay, I learned that an innovation was

> coming to my city,

> which threatened to make it impossible to avoid exposure any more.

>

> At that time, cell phones were still a luxury item that only worked

in

> some locations.

> People were not accustomed to staying connected whenever they left

their

> home, and even

> at home most still had a cord, not an antenna, attached to their

> telephone. Most were not

> accustomed to holding devices that emit microwave radiation next to

> their brain. In 1996,

> the telecommunications industry began a marketing campaign designed

to

> change all that.

> For Christmas that year, all over the country, digital cell phones

were

> going to be on a lot

> of shopping lists. And to make them more practical, tens of

thousands of

> antennae were

> going to be erected on towers, buildings, church steeples and

lampposts

> all over the

> country before Christmas, and hundreds of thousands more during the

>

> " _.....on November 14 1996, Omnipoint, New York City's first

digital

> cellular provider, did

> open for business, broadcasting from thousands of antennae newly

erected

> on the

> rooftops of apartment buildings. According to the health

authorities, an

> early flu hit New

> York City - but not Boston, and not Philadelphia - on about 15

November.

> The flu was

> severe and ran a prolonged course, often dragging on for months

instead

> of the usual two

> weeks.

>

> At Christmas time, the Cellular Phone Task Force placed a small

> classified ad in a free

> weekly newspaper. It read: 'If you have been ill since 11/15/96

with any

> of the following:

> eye pain, insomnia, dry lips, swollen throat, pressure or pain in

the

> chest, headaches,

> dizziness, nausea, shakiness, other aches and pains, or flu that

won't

> go away, you may be

> a victim of a new microwave system blanketing the city. We need to

hear

> from you.' And

> we did hear from them. Hundreds called, men, women, whites, blacks,

> Asians, Latinos,

> doctors, lawyers, teachers, stockbrokers, airline stewards,

computer

> operators. Most had

> woken up suddenly in mid-November, thinking they were having a

stroke or

> a heart attack

> or a nervous breakdown, and were relieved to know they were not

alone

> and not crazy.

>

> Later, I analysed weekly mortality statistics, which the Centres

for

> Disease Control publish

> for122 US cities. Each of dozens of cities recorded a 10-25 per

cent

> increase in mortality,

> lasting two to three months, beginning on the day in 1996 or 1997

on

> which that city's

> first digital cell phone network began commercial service...._ "

>

> " _...I learned that in February 1996, Congress had passed a law

> prohibiting local

> governments from denying permits for cell phone antennae because of

> environmental

> concerns - so long as they comply with Federal Communications

Commission

> (FCC) rules.

> I also learned that the FCC had just issued regulations setting

public

> exposure limits for

> microwave radiation at levels at least ten thousand times higher

than

> levels which,

> according to the Environmental Protection Agency, were causing

reports

> of illness from all

> over the world. Levels that are at least ten thousand times higher

than

> the levels that had

> forced me to leave behind my home, my family, and my friends, and

to run

> for my life,

> never to be able to return home again....._ "

>

July 8, 2006

Kurt,

Wow! There's the " possible " key for the Incline outbreak. Can you tell us more

about this

microwave transmission/repeater system set up around Tahoe/Incline? It's seems

like an

important piece of the puzzle. It seems like the military is always up to some

kind of evil. :

(

paul

>

> a,

>

> The military and large

> communications carriers also started placing large microwave

> transmission/repeater systems up in the early 80s. In fact a major

> system was installed around Tahoe/Incline also in the early 80s. And

> people in the exposure line were not informed of that fact.

July 8, 2006

>> Wow! There's the " possible " key for the Incline outbreak. Can you

tell us more about this

microwave transmission/repeater system set up around Tahoe/Incline? It's

seems like an

important piece of the puzzle. It seems like the military is always up

to some kind of evil. :

I don't know if this is a key for Incline, but did read this awhile

back. There was apparently some local discussion about the new towers

going up at the time and some people thought there was a connection.

Don't know if I can find the website again where this was discussed, it

was awhile ago.

--Kurt

July 9, 2006

>>>>One way to tell is to get out of EMF exposure and see how you feel after

> a few days/weeks.<<<<

Being around more or less exposure has a striking effect on me in a very short

time...minutes, now. And every hour, it becomes even clearer.

Total absence gets trickier as the atmosphere is being permeated, and some

equipment themselves emit waves even when turned off. But the degree does make

a difference.

As far as " electro-smog " , in general...electricity, for instance...one way to

tell it's impact is how your system feels in a total blackout...power failure.

(You could do it yourself, of course). Psychologically, I hate these. But the

peace/calm in every cell in my body is stunning.

Others know the Science and mechanics far better than me, but I think there's

alot more running through or attracting to electrical wiring these days.

Plus the way things are wired has a big impact on the body too. Even

furnishings, such as metal bedsprings make a difference.

I wish I understood it all better, plus had the resources {and discipline} to

fully transform my environment accordingly.

This has become significant for me, in the way that chemicals and mold are for

alot of us, and all are becoming greater issue for me.

I think these are greater issues for entire Planet and Human Race, even when

effects are not known, evident, or extreme. Because cells and organs are being

damaged, even in a stealth way, then causing suceptibility to further ill

health. Because all of the above are accumulating, the accumulated load issue

matters, and the synergy among them.

Effects and degree differs based on genetics, and other general health

conditions.

Then we have pathogens, which have been around since the beginning of time. But

even here, environmental changes alone are greatly altering their presence and

evolution. Another fascinating area to study. The destruction of the Rain Forest

has had an effect on release of " new " pathogens, As, I'm sure is true with

altering of Nature/Ecological system

all around us. I think this might include the tick/Lyme issue.

So, the severe messing with Nature, plus proliferation of man-made materials and

gadgets

is IMO compromising everyone's health dramatically. These are causal for some of

us, and further complicating the rest.

Then, of course, there is the experimentation and weaponizing issue which is

vastly more extensive than we can even imagine. The results exposing us in

*documented* and undocumented accidents {and some would say other exposure on

purpose.}

Once you start looking, there are reams and reams of data for all of the above.

Again, personal choice, abilites, tolerance, priorities.

Learning about harming elements, and praticing avoidance, and riddance, as much

as we are willing and able is the best.

Meanwhile, in reality, pristine, bad-pathogen free surroundings are diminishing.

SOOOOOO, I like the work being done on genetics and

healing/altering/strengthening the " terrain " of the body. Many promising areas,

from the most simplistic to the very complex. Transforming the inner environment

to better handle the outer .

Other than that, healing the Psyche, Heart and Soul to handle the wild ride.

Katrina

> In , " Kurt R. " <kurt@...> wrote:

>

> a,

>

> You may have had radar and/or microwave exposures then from other

> sources as well, it was not just cell phones. Radar exposure was

> significant in the 60s. I grew up on military bases in the 60s and

> probably had plenty of that exposure, along with all types of toxins,

> and military kids do have higher illness rates. The military and large

> communications carriers also started placing large microwave

> transmission/repeater systems up in the early 80s. In fact a major

> system was installed around Tahoe/Incline also in the early 80s. And

> people in the exposure line were not informed of that fact. You could

> be rural and be in a direct exposure line, impossible to say unless you

> had inside information.

>

> Also, even ordinary household currents can be a factor for some people,

> so you had that exposure all along. And as the EMF studies show, there

> are individual and probably genetic factors in EMF susceptibility. So

> if you are susceptible, you may have been reacting to this for decades,

> which might have lowered resistance to the other triggers. But this is

> not universal, EMF probably is a subset situation with CFS, like most of

> the other significant co-factors we are finding.

>

> One way to tell is to get out of EMF exposure and see how you feel after

> a few days/weeks.

>

> --Kurt

>

> Re: EMF

>

> Kurt,

>

> Here are more likely triggers following the exposure to borrelia in

> 1972.

>

> Further tick bites.

>

> Mycoplasma infection with walking pneumonia.

>

> Airplane trip to Europe

>

> Working in a mold contaminated building

>

> How close to a cell tower would one have to be? I lived in a small town

> and

> don't recall any towers anywhere around in the mid 90s.

>

> a

>

July 9, 2006

Katrina,

One other factor to consider is that power plants run current through

the GROUND, and not only through wires. In other words, while they push

one charge out the 'hot' wire, then pull the opposite back through BOTH

the return wire and the actual ground, meaning the soil around the power

plant. I read once that some power plants pull more return current back

from the ground than from their return wires. So during a blackout you

also lose the current running through the ground.

One reason given for this is the amount of current leakage from

underground wiring, now very popular.

The list of stupid practices and outright deceptions related to our

health is very, very long, and I suspect growing longer each day.

--Kurt

Re: EMF

>>>>One way to tell is to get out of EMF exposure and see how you feel

after

> a few days/weeks.<<<<

Being around more or less exposure has a striking effect on me in a very

short time...minutes, now. And every hour, it becomes even clearer.

Total absence gets trickier as the atmosphere is being permeated, and

some equipment themselves emit waves even when turned off. But the

degree does make a difference.

As far as " electro-smog " , in general...electricity, for instance...one

way to tell it's impact is how your system feels in a total

blackout...power failure. (You could do it yourself, of course).

Psychologically, I hate these. But the peace/calm in every cell in my

body is stunning.

Others know the Science and mechanics far better than me, but I think

there's alot more running through or attracting to electrical wiring

these days.

Plus the way things are wired has a big impact on the body too. Even

furnishings, such as metal bedsprings make a difference.

I wish I understood it all better, plus had the resources {and

discipline} to fully transform my environment accordingly.

This has become significant for me, in the way that chemicals and mold

are for alot of us, and all are becoming greater issue for me.

I think these are greater issues for entire Planet and Human Race, even

when effects are not known, evident, or extreme. Because cells and

organs are being damaged, even in a stealth way, then causing

suceptibility to further ill health. Because all of the above are

accumulating, the accumulated load issue matters, and the synergy among

them.

Effects and degree differs based on genetics, and other general health

conditions.

Then we have pathogens, which have been around since the beginning of

time. But even here, environmental changes alone are greatly altering

their presence and evolution. Another fascinating area to study. The

destruction of the Rain Forest has had an effect on release of " new "

pathogens, As, I'm sure is true with altering of Nature/Ecological

system

all around us. I think this might include the tick/Lyme issue.

So, the severe messing with Nature, plus proliferation of man-made

materials and gadgets

is IMO compromising everyone's health dramatically. These are causal for

some of us, and further complicating the rest.

Then, of course, there is the experimentation and weaponizing issue

which is vastly more extensive than we can even imagine. The results

exposing us in *documented* and undocumented accidents {and some would

say other exposure on purpose.}

Once you start looking, there are reams and reams of data for all of the

above. Again, personal choice, abilites, tolerance, priorities.

Learning about harming elements, and praticing avoidance, and riddance,

as much as we are willing and able is the best.

Meanwhile, in reality, pristine, bad-pathogen free surroundings are

diminishing.

SOOOOOO, I like the work being done on genetics and

healing/altering/strengthening the " terrain " of the body. Many promising

areas, from the most simplistic to the very complex. Transforming the

inner environment to better handle the outer .

Other than that, healing the Psyche, Heart and Soul to handle the wild

ride.

Katrina

> In @ <mailto:%40>

, " Kurt R. " <kurt@...> wrote:

July 24, 2006

VERY WELL STATED..and I hope, in the future, that Psychologists and other

" shrinks " can distinquish THIS DD from Clinical Depression, Somatization

Disorder, Hypochondriasis, etc., when properly educated by Dr. Cheney, who

we

all owe a great debt to, for having recognized and addressed this disease

over the years.

Amelia

A former Psychologist, MS.

November 4, 2007

Ken,

Interesting and I'm sure it helps a lot with the AL vapor barrier,

but you aren't really in a Faraday cage if you have windows. The easy

way to test is to see if you get cell phone reception indoors. Once

the EMF gets in through the windows it reflects around inside quite a

bit. You can check the signal strength indicator on most cell phones

to estimate the shielding relative to outdoors. I'd be interested in

your results since they built a new cell tower 1000 feet from my

house. I'm currently wearing shielding long johns from LessEMF.com

and sleep and sit with AL foil between me and the tower but unsure if

that affects my symptoms or not.

Best,

Edgar

On Nov 4, 2007, at 1:04 PM, Ken wrote:

> Good points,

> My model has hypercoagulation being a significant factor and thus

> part of recovery is removing coagulation triggers.

> EMF is documented on PUBMED as being a coagulation trigger.

> Usually at a non-issue level, but if you are just below a threshold

> then if may be just enough to push it over.

> (Mercury -- amalgams, is another known trigger)

>

> Yes, in our new house ( < 900 sq ft, major downsizing) the entire

> house has aluminum vapor barrier (so we are in a faraday cage) and has

> wired internet drops in each room. The house was also built without a

> single piece of HDF or MDF or fibre board or any formaldehyde

> products. No carpets: just tile or solid wood floors. Hospital grade

> air filters, The house was designed to be the safest for CFIDS that we

> could design and our builder have been fantastic. The cost is high for

> these protections, we are moving from a urban large house to a rural

> small house and hoping to break even. The resell value of this house

> is well below it's cost.

>

> The reality is that we are talking remission --- and remission means

> working at preventing triggering events on a life-long basis. Think of

> it as diabetes that can be controlled by diet alone.

>

> It's a matter of facing some tough choices and then making the right

> choices.

>

> > I understand that Ken was working in a very high EMR environment and

> I am

> > guessing that he probably most likely also had a WiFi system in his

> house

> > when he became sick. I also understand from a previous post that

> he was

> > looking at shielding materials for his home.

> >

> > Peace

> >

> > paul

> >

>

November 4, 2007

Will do, the purpose is to reduce (not eliminate). We picked the lot

AFTER checking the location of all radio masts in the area. I believe

we were 2 miles from the closest site.

If you are in the UK

http://www.sitefinder.ofcom.org.uk/

There was one (can't find it at the moment) for US towers. If you plan

to move, you may wish to verify that the location is no worst than your

current location. Note, in the city you will be hard pressed to get a

mile, in the country side you can get several miles.

>

November 5, 2007

> Posted by: " Ken " ken.lassesen@...

in our new house ( < 900 sq ft, major downsizing) the entire

> house has aluminum vapor barrier (so we are in a faraday cage) and

has wired internet drops in each room. The house was also built without

a single piece of HDF or MDF or fibre board or any formaldehyde

products. No carpets: just tile or solid wood floors. Hospital grade

air filters, The house was designed to be the safest for CFIDS that we

could design> The reality is that we are talking remission

> working at preventing triggering events on a life-long basis.

Think of it as diabetes that can be controlled by diet alone.

>

> It's a matter of facing some tough choices and then making the right

> choices.

>

Ken, Your house sounds similar to the construction methods in my

customized RV, except that I dismantled the Hepa Filtration systems in

2002 in favor of simply parking in places where they are unnecessary.

In terms of remission, just as I described to Dr while in the

1999 " Original CFS cohort NIH follow-up study " : " I have permits to

climb Mt Whitney, and that's not too shabby for a person with Chronic

Fatigue Syndrome " .

Last Nov. I celebrated the results of this method by climbing Mt

Whitney for the ninth time after leaving the ampligen program.

I was out in the " pristine deseert " climbing the Churchill buttes

yesterday. And Cort, considering that you attempted this same

strategy years ago with that van of yours which burned up, seems that

we've all agree some level of " escapism " is therapeutic.

It's all in the old messages, and I stand behind every word I wrote.

-

November 5, 2007

,

Since you consider yourself recovered by avoidance of offenders, do you work

for a living now? are you on disability? sounds like climbing mountains

like that is a huge achievement, one most 'healthy' working people could not

do, so wondered if you've returned to the work world.

Marcia

Re: EMF

>

> > Posted by: " Ken " ken.lassesen@...

> in our new house ( < 900 sq ft, major downsizing) the entire

> > house has aluminum vapor barrier (so we are in a faraday cage) and

> has wired internet drops in each room. The house was also built without

> a single piece of HDF or MDF or fibre board or any formaldehyde

> products. No carpets: just tile or solid wood floors. Hospital grade

> air filters, The house was designed to be the safest for CFIDS that we

> could design> The reality is that we are talking remission

> > working at preventing triggering events on a life-long basis.

> Think of it as diabetes that can be controlled by diet alone.

> >

> > It's a matter of facing some tough choices and then making the right

> > choices.

> >

>

> Ken, Your house sounds similar to the construction methods in my

> customized RV, except that I dismantled the Hepa Filtration systems in

> 2002 in favor of simply parking in places where they are unnecessary.

> In terms of remission, just as I described to Dr while in the

> 1999 " Original CFS cohort NIH follow-up study " : " I have permits to

> climb Mt Whitney, and that's not too shabby for a person with Chronic

> Fatigue Syndrome " .

> Last Nov. I celebrated the results of this method by climbing Mt

> Whitney for the ninth time after leaving the ampligen program.

> I was out in the " pristine deseert " climbing the Churchill buttes

> yesterday. And Cort, considering that you attempted this same

> strategy years ago with that van of yours which burned up, seems that

> we've all agree some level of " escapism " is therapeutic.

> It's all in the old messages, and I stand behind every word I wrote.

> -

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

November 5, 2007

" Marcia " <mgrahn@...> wrote:

>

> ,

>

> Since you consider yourself recovered by avoidance of offenders, do

you work for a living now? are you on disability? sounds like

climbing mountains like that is a huge achievement, one

most 'healthy' working people could not do, so wondered if you've

returned to the work world.

>

> Marcia

Not only am I working, but it's in a building that used to knock me

flat many years ago. Nobody thought I could recover to this extent.

It was more than I dared hope for. So... considering that I saw the

same clues that suggested this strategy in other CFSers, the question

is " How far does this go in applying to CFS as an illness? " and " Why

are doctors disinterested in this effect? "

Even if they do not understand the mechanism for any improvement, one

would think it is incumbent upon researchers to manifest some degree

of curiosity to anyone who proposes a concept WHILE in the ampligen

program - and comes back with pictures of themselves on top of some

reasonably high mountains.

-

November 6, 2007

hey ken

if one buys a cloth covered couch at a regular furniture store how

long do you think there could be bad outgassing?

it sounds so hard to set up life protectively, i do it halfheartedly.

ever see that movie " safe " , sort of disheartening.....

>

> > Posted by: " Ken " ken.lassesen@