Smallpox vaccine

[Guest guest]

Yes, it's just the usual fearmongering ploy that gets tricky laws passed they

couldn't pass otherwise and lets them move into various countries they have

always wanted to, and the more fear they can generate the more vaccine sales

they get, and the more we think they are wonderful for " saving " our lives with

vaccines. It keeps us pointing in the right direction--in fear we don't think,

we just react. http://www.whale.to/m/fear1.html

None of it stands up to scrutiny--if Saddam had it he would have used it long

ago in Iran (if it exists it would have bee bought from the uS), and smallpox

is a great Wizard of Oz/Paper Tiger--it is hard (the usual one that is--not

something they may have made in the lab) to infect anyone, was considered less

serious than measles, http://www.whale.to/v/smallpox2.html and the vaccine was

100% useless--90-99% of the victims had been vaccinated,a nd huge epidemics

followed vaccination. http://www.whale.to/vaccine/smallpox3.html

Ditto Anthrax---sent by the CIA by the look of it.

john

Re: Smallpox vaccine

<New Plan for Smallpox Attack<

I think it is very strange that we have heard since 9/11 that there is going

to be a smallpox attack. With the hundred of viruses out there that could be

deployed by our enemies, why do they insist it is the smallpox vaccine? It

makes me very suspicious and I don't plan to get one. No way, no how. C.

[Guest guest]

Indeed C. you are very wise to be suspicious. A few months back I made

the same comments myself on this list. How the hec do they know and why are

they so sure? And what about the millions of others " germs " we could be

attacked with? Why are they saying it will be smallpox when it could be

anything? What agenda is there? Is it only money? Everyone already knows

that government is bought and paid for by pharma. Aside from money, could it

be to simply scare the public into giving up their constitutional rights?

Those in power are always turned on by more power. And of course there is

still rumor about the smallpox vaccine being used for microchip implanting.

By the way, great post about not catching the flu from the flu vaccine. When

I read that paragraph in the article I just laughed. Unfortunately though,

C., we are that dumb. In general, the majority of the public believes

such nonsense. This is why the vaccine business continues to thrive while

the dead and damaged bodies pile up - our gullibility and ignorance.

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

<New Plan for Smallpox Attack<

I think it is very strange that we have heard since 9/11 that there is going to

be a smallpox attack. With the hundred of viruses out there that could be

deployed by our enemies, why do they insist it is the smallpox vaccine? It

makes me very suspicious and I don't plan to get one. No way, no how. C.

[Guest guest]

.. With the hundred of viruses out there that could be deployed by our

enemies, why do they insist it is the smallpox vaccine?

See that is what I wonder. I mean if these people want to do the most

damage that they can, why in the world would they use something that

is known and can be treated? Why not pick something from the unknown

and hard to identify category? Something without a known protocol and

treatment that would do lots more damage than smallpox. I mean some

of these guys may be wackos, but they aren't stupid. They are going

to try to do the most damage that is possible.

I'm much more worried about something weird being slipped into water

treatment facilities or mass transit as a way of exposure than I am

smallpox or anthrax. maybe all of the smallpox stuff is a smoke and

mirrors routine? It wouldn't be the first time. And that might make

sense. Let everyone see our gov. focusing publicly on an area they

dont plan to use, so that they(our " enemies " ) dont know where the

real focus is. I'm sure hoping that is what this is. I dont want to

see this plan go into action. It petrifies me.

Nisha

[Guest guest]

IMO I think Sadaam even if he had it wouldn't use it. They don't have the

vaccine. So, it would get back to their country and he is not an idiot he

knows the complications. This is not just poison nerve gas on some

neighboring country.

From: " " <whaleto@...>

Reply-Vaccinations

<Vaccinations >

Subject: Re: Re: Smallpox vaccine

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:04:18 +0100

Yes, it's just the usual fearmongering ploy that gets tricky laws passed

they couldn't pass otherwise and lets them move into various countries they

have always wanted to, and the more fear they can generate the more vaccine

sales they get, and the more we think they are wonderful for " saving " our

lives with vaccines. It keeps us pointing in the right direction--in fear

we don't think, we just react. http://www.whale.to/m/fear1.html

None of it stands up to scrutiny--if Saddam had it he would have used it

long ago in Iran (if it exists it would have bee bought from the uS), and

smallpox is a great Wizard of Oz/Paper Tiger--it is hard (the usual one that

is--not something they may have made in the lab) to infect anyone, was

considered less serious than measles, http://www.whale.to/v/smallpox2.html

and the vaccine was 100% useless--90-99% of the victims had been

vaccinated,a nd huge epidemics followed vaccination.

http://www.whale.to/vaccine/smallpox3.html

Ditto Anthrax---sent by the CIA by the look of it.

john

Re: Smallpox vaccine

<New Plan for Smallpox Attack<

I think it is very strange that we have heard since 9/11 that there is

going to be a smallpox attack. With the hundred of viruses out there that

could be deployed by our enemies, why do they insist it is the smallpox

vaccine? It makes me very suspicious and I don't plan to get one. No way,

no how. C.

[Guest guest]

Yes you should be concerned! The smallpox vaccination info is very shocking and

no one will be allowed to sue the drug manufacturer if there is a dire

consequence. The Homeland Security act specifically holds the manufacturer

harmless. This is a dangerous vaccine and little is known about the potential

side effects. I'm really interested in knowing what makes our government think

that this is a specific threat to our health? Have they had threats about

smallpox? Or are they doing it as a preventative measure?

Pattia

ReA caused by salmonella

Lake Oswego, OR

[Guest guest]

Connie (granny)--

I'm so glad you brought this up because it is something that has really

been bothering me. I know you research this stuff, so thought you might

have answers to some of my questions:

Is this the same vaccine that used to be given routinely to everyone? If

so, why the furor? It's true, I'm ancient, but I recall that it was no big

deal when I was a child--it used to be given in our schools (I was in

California) and we'd all line up to get our vaccinations. Then, it was a

" game " to check everyone's arms every day to see if the vaccination " took "

on anyone. I can't recall that ever happening, although some people did

end up with larger scars than others.

If it is the same vaccine and the concern is that no one has been

vaccinated for so long that those who do receive the vaccine can cause the

disease in others, how can that happen if the vaccine is made from

something other than smallpox itself? Or, is the concern not that it will

spread smallpox but something else? If something else, what?

When the entire population used to be vaccinated, it had to start some

time--do you know when that was and what happened at that time? Were there

many who suffered side effects? If so, what were they and how many? Were

those who suffered the people who were vaccinated or those around them?

Are the side effects worth the risk of making sure smallpox itself doesn't

tear through the country?

When they say people with " compromised " immune systems have to be careful,

what does that mean? Is that only people with under-active immune systems,

such as the ones used in examples--organ transplant recipients, eczema and

lupus sufferers, etc--or does it include people with over-active immune

systems such as people with spondy diseases? And, again, what can

happen--what are the side-effects? The ones I've seen described, such as

in the CNN article in your link, don't seem much worse than with many kinds

of vaccinations, and the disease itself sounds so much incredibly worse . .

.. .

If people on anti-TNF drugs are among those at risk, does that include

those who are on those meds to counteract an over-active immune system? If

so, is it people who are currently taking them or people who have ever

taken them?

Finally (I guess), if smallpox is truly a risk, why aren't we vaccinating

the entire public? (I believe sufficient supplies of the vaccine will be

available soon, if not already.) Isn't it it a bit scary to vaccinate

those who will have to take care of smallpox victims? Doesn't that imply

that there will be victims? Why not vaccinate everyone and try to

eliminate that risk as much as possible?

If you have--or anyone has--any answers, I'd really appreciate knowing. I

think this is really frightening and wish the government would level with

us--why have they picked the possibility of smallpox to be concerned about?

What do they know? I understand the concern about panic, but only by

having " real " information can people make reasonable decisions!

Thanks for listening. --bc

[Guest guest]

I wouldn't get the vaccine on such knowledge, the small pox vaccine is not a

real vaccine, it is a live virus called cow pox. It makes you sick, but cow

pox anti-bodies are effective against small pox. Who knows whether getting

the small pox vaccine was not the trigger of many of our auto-immune

diseases - those of us who are old enough to have gotten vaccinated. Most

other vaccines are dead viruses and you can not, I repeat, you can not catch

a disease from the vaccine. If small pox does come back, it will be

self-evident. It is not a secret disease that can hide itself. You can bet

your bottom dollar that a quarantine would be put in place first and there

would be some time for each person to discuss the pros and cons with their

doctor. Bioweapons are notoriously poor weapons of mass destruction. The

problem is the delivery system, put them in the water supply a bio weapon

will likely die, spread it in the air, the bio weapon will likely die. Put

in the food supply, it will likely die. Bio weapons need live transmitters

to be effective, except for the bubonic plague, the transmitter has to be a

human being -- people who spread the disease person to person, one person at

a time, it is a very slow way to operate to qualify as a weapon of mass

destruction. We have enough real threats of different kinds of weapons of

mass destruction to worry about without an improbable if not impossible thing

like small pox to added to the list.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/25/03 12:18:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,

bcoggin@... writes:

> Is this the same vaccine that used to be given routinely to everyone?

Yes, I believe that it is the same, but because they didn't have enough for

everyone...they have diluted it. So they are even sure if it will be

effective. They are presently working on another vaccine that would have less

side effects. It is a live virus...unlike the flu vaccine, etc. So there is a

possibility that they could reinfect the US (world) with smallpox, which was

eradicated many years ago. That is why we didn't need to vaccinate anymore. I

was vaccinated, like you were and it was very important in those days as

smallpox was a great killer disease. At that time we did have side effects,

but the benefits out weighed the risks. In those days, we didn't have the

drugs for cancer or arthritis or for transplanted organs that compromise the

immune system. I don't think that it is wise to open the public to something

that MAY happen unless the danger is already there. The benefits do not

outweigh the risk. If there was no danger in giving the vaccine, why did they

rush through congress a bill that would prevent anyone from suing?

<<You asked whether is would effect over active immune systems as well as

under active.>>

Reactive arthritis and the spondys are relatively new diseases...Not a new

disease, but one that didn't have a name until the late forties. I don't

think anyone knows for sure....if this would be a trigger or not. We know

that some virus does trigger ReA. I would think that it could very well be.

People with spondy who are on TNF, prednisone, Methotrexate could very well

be included as immune compromised.

<<<The ones I've seen described, such as

in the CNN article in your link, don't seem much worse than with many kinds

of vaccinations, and the disease itself sounds so much incredibly worse>>

Smallpox is an incredibly terrible disease. All the more reason we should

think about introducing it back into the world population. Some people will

come down with smallpox. This is unacceptable in my mind. With flu shots,

pneumonia shots, whooping cough, etc., the benefits definitely outweighs the

risk...because the risk is there. The risk that a terrorists will use

smallpox is unknown...it MIGHT happen. If it does, then we can take care of

it. More than likely it will be isolated cases.

<<if smallpox is truly a risk, why aren't we vaccinating

the entire public?>>

I believe they know the risk of vaccinating everyone in the population. It

may be that they are using the volunteers as a test run? Hate to think that

they would do that..but it has happened before.

<<I think this is really frightening and wish the government would level with

us--why have they picked the possibility of smallpox to be concerned about?

What do they know? I understand the concern about panic, but only by

having " real " information can people make reasonable decisions!>>

I agree, Betty. From what we hear there are many things the terrorists can

use...anthrax, poisonous gases, plague, A bombs...why are they concentrating

on this? I don't know...but they should inform us so we can make decisions

for ourselves.

I hope we get opinions from another point of view. I think it is an important

debate and would like to hear from people who are knowledgeable in science,

etc.

PS Dave+ I wish it was as easy to get rid of the smallpox virus as it was

the " Internet virus " that slowed us down the last couple of days!

Best wishes, Connie (granny)

[Guest guest]

The vaccine is a live cowpox virus. We have learned over the last decades

to give killed virus vaccines, such as the flu shot, because live virus

vaccines are much more dangerous. Those of us on prednisone are at risk of

being harmed by the smallpox vaccination, even if we don't get it. If

someone else gets the vaccine and doesn't follow the directions to keep it

covered, they are contagious with the cowpox virus, and those of us on

prednisone could be seriously harmed by coming into contact with the cowpox

virus. Those of us on prednisone are not supposed to have any live virus

vaccine. Flu shots are OK and even essential because it's a dead virus and

can't infect anyone. Medicine has improved substantially since we were

children, and we have rightfully have higher standards. The solution is for

significant resources to be devoted to developing a killed virus vaccine for

smallpox.

There are many more people with impaired immune systems and on

immunosuppresive meds. than there were when we were children, so the

estimates bandied about in the news of risk of harm and number of people to

be harmed is based on old out of date data.

I stumbled upon my infant smallpox vaccination record the other day. I had

it in 1963 at 10 months old, and it was a good take. I hope that prior

exposure will protect me, if self-centered narcissists are allowed to get

the vaccine and don't properly keep it covered. The bottom line is it is a

public health issue, not a personal choice, because by getting the vaccine

you may sicken those you come in contact with. I don't think those of us on

prednisone are expendable.

Also, getting the vaccine shortly after exposure to smallpox can prevent

development of the smallpox disease. The rational choice being proposed by

many hospitals is to hold off on vaccination until there is 1 case of

smallpox anywhere on the planet. When and if that happens, mass

vaccinations could be conducted, as was done successfuly in New York in the

1940s.

The millions of us with autoimmune disease on prednisone or Enbrel or

Remicade need to make our voices heard that leaving it up to individuals

whether to endanger our health is not an acceptable solution.

Janet

[Guest guest]

I believe I read that people with autoimmune or other health risks would have

the option of not getting the shots, just as some of the TNF's have a warning

about this kind of thing.

Dave in NC

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/27/03 10:56:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, dsgolf9@...

writes:

> that people with autoimmune or other health risks would have

> the option of not getting the shots

Dave, this is true, however, the potential for problems lies with exposure to

others that have had the inoculation, even if you've chosen not to have it.

Health care workers can unintentionally expose their patients. School

children (who are well known to pick and touch their scabs) can expose their

classmates. People are told not to take off the bandage and to keep the area

covered, but as a mother, I know this is a most impossible task. The

uninformed or negligent can expose others. This is the problem with

introducing the potential for re infection by small pox which was eliminated

from the population many years ago. We live in a different world than in the

1930s 1940s etc. If there is a terrorist event that uses small pox, the

vaccine is thought to be effective for a few days after exposure. So why jump

the gun?

Best regards, Connie (granny)

[Guest guest]

Connie,

Excellent points. I hadn't though of the exposure to others who have had it.

Perhaps there is a window where if the healthcare worker gets the shot they

need to stay away from patients for a certain period of time. You are right

that unless that unless there is an outbreak mass vacinations doesn't seem

prudent.

Dave in NC

[Guest guest]

<A HREF= " http://www.mercola.com/2003/sep/17/smallpox_vaccine.htm " >Smallpox

Vaccine Has the Pox</A> - The smallpox vaccine has been surrounded by

serious adverse reactions and deaths since it was first discovered. Find out the

dangers surrounding the smallpox vaccine and learn why pharmaceutical

companies are receiving billions of dollars to develop this and other dangerous

drugs

and vaccines

[Guest guest]

<A HREF= " http://www.mercola.com/2003/sep/17/smallpox_vaccine.htm " >Smallpox

Vaccine Has the Pox</A> - The smallpox vaccine has been surrounded by

serious adverse reactions and deaths since it was first discovered. Find out the

dangers surrounding the smallpox vaccine and learn why pharmaceutical

companies are receiving billions of dollars to develop this and other dangerous

drugs

and vaccines

[Guest guest]

Smallpox epidemic: Predicted or planned?

There are more than 65 known biological warfare agents. The choice

of smallpox for biological warfare is curious since the disease is

one of the least virulent.

So, why smallpox? Unlike other biological warfare options, there is

a vaccine for smallpox. Smallpox vaccine is the most dangerous of

all vaccines—stockpiles of which have been in storage since the

World Health Organization declared the world free of smallpox in

1980.

Variola, vaccinia—what is smallpox?

" Variola " is the virus associated with the natural form of smallpox

affecting humans. The virus used in the vaccine to create immunity

to variola is called the " vaccinia " virus and is cultured in

diseased material taken from cows.

Jenner is the pioneer of modern vaccinations and is credited

with the first " successful " smallpox vaccine in 1796. Jenner's work

capitalized on the " fear " of smallpox. For this he is revered in

some circles and reviled in others (see page 2).

By 1900, Dr. of Texas had already established that

controlling malaria-carrying mosquitoes with mosquito-eating bats in

Central America effectively controlled malaria. Dr. then

began looking at bedbugs and their relationship to variola. His

research determined that variola was spread by bedbugs and is

complicated by poor sanitation and malnutrition. He also determined

that the smallpox vaccine containing the vaccinia virus did not

create immunity to variola in at least 80 percent of cases (see page

3).

http://www.vaclib.org/news/smallpoxalert.htm

[Guest guest]

>The vaccine issues ARE NOT separate and until everyone realizes that we

will be fighting until they inject all of us and our children under Patriot

Act II and any other law they can come up with to make money for the drug

companies that fund their campaigns -

EACH OF THEIR CAMPAIGNS.<

Dr. Sherri Tenpenny said in her new DVD that they are planning to have mandatory

smallpox vaccines. She said it hasn't gone away and it won't go away. She said

that they will not let anyone off the hook even if they have serious

contraindications. No exemptions will be allowed. She said that the only way

that we will get out of it is for grassroots groups to get very active and wake

others up like we are trying to do. She is such a hero in my eyes because she

has no children and is not effected personally by the vaccine mandates, but she

crys for the children. I really love her.

[Guest guest]

<<<Dr. Sherri Tenpenny said in her new DVD that

they are planning to have mandatory smallpox

vaccines. She said it hasn't gone away and it

won't go away. She said that they will not let

anyone off the hook even if they have serious

contraindications. No exemptions will be

allowed.>>>

Oh, gosh, I just had a thought reading this. What

if they would require it before you could fly?

That's just about the only mainstream thing that I

do anymore, fly back to the Midwest to visit my

family. That would catch a lot of people that

stay under the radar in every other way IE self

employed, no health insurance, stay away from

doctors, etc. Can anyone think of other ways

that they could 'require' this that would really

interfere with a person's life?

[Guest guest]

Could they require you to show proof of to be employed? Get a license?

Join a gym? Be released from a hospital after an emergency? Just a few more

things I just thought of.

DrCrandall wrote:

<<they are planning to have mandatory smallpox

vaccines. She said it hasn't gone away and it

won't go away. She said that they will not let

anyone off the hook even if they have serious

contraindications. No exemptions will be

allowed.>>>

Oh, gosh, I just had a thought reading this. What

if they would require it before you could fly?

That's just about the only mainstream thing that I

do anymore, fly back to the Midwest to visit my

family. That would catch a lot of people that

stay under the radar in every other way IE self

employed, no health insurance, stay away from

doctors, etc. Can anyone think of other ways

that they could 'require' this that would really

interfere with a person's life?

[Guest guest]

Yep, keep 'em coming. That's why self employment

is good, keeps a lot of stuff away, but, I am a

Chiropractor, I suppose they could call that

medical and I'd be out of a job too. have a

treadmill so no gym, but a driver's license,

yikes, that would really interfere with a person's

life. Yep, I guess I might go get stitches or

have a bone set so getting out of hospital could

be a problem.

RE: Re: Smallpox vaccine

Could they require you to show proof of to be

employed? Get a license?

Join a gym? Be released from a hospital after an

emergency? Just a few more things I just thought

of.

[Guest guest]

I mean worse case senario, they could demand that everyone get documentation for

vaccines, and send health inspectors to job sites, schools, door to door in

neighborhoods to check your history. I'm sure they could utilize tolls to serve

as means for checking vaccine history, in order for you to file taxes, but

honestly. . .

They could just enact I.D. cards for people to carry around at all times, in

order to do anything. All they have to do is make it into a 'protect us from

terrorism' thing

Also, to fill a perscription... they're already equipping these drugs with the

RFID coder that is traceable with radiowaves, maybe they'll have you swipe your

I.D. cards to purchase it.

Marlaina Skjold <ladymrln@...> wrote:

Well, let's see. . .Obviously to join the army, or start a health practice.

Maybe in to get into a shelter for hurricanes, and other natural disasters. To

be eligible for health insurance. . . still thinking here...

At worst cases, to use malls, grocery stores, and amusement parks without some

sort of I.D. that specifies your vaccination history...

DrCrandall wrote:

Yep, keep 'em coming. That's why self employment

is good, keeps a lot of stuff away, but, I am a

Chiropractor, I suppose they could call that

medical and I'd be out of a job too. have a

treadmill so no gym, but a driver's license,

yikes, that would really interfere with a person's

life. Yep, I guess I might go get stitches or

have a bone set so getting out of hospital could

be a problem.

RE: Re: Smallpox vaccine

Could they require you to show proof of to be

employed? Get a license?

Join a gym? Be released from a hospital after an

emergency? Just a few more things I just thought

of.

[Guest guest]

how can they force vaccines on us? First all of the laws on religious

exemptions would have to be gotten rid of in every state.

RE: Re: Smallpox vaccine

>

>

> Could they require you to show proof of to be

> employed? Get a license?

> Join a gym? Be released from a hospital after an

> emergency? Just a few more things I just thought

> of.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>