Re: Remission temporary vs permanent

[Guest guest]

Oooh! This is an important topic. I had to change my life, my values, my

timelines because of this disease. Now that I am in remission, I have to

continue

those changes or I believe I am more liable to get the symptoms back.

Indeed, I have heard of more cases where the Oriental medicine created long

passages of remission, over 10 years and still going. One lady had the TSH go

hyper again and after only 4 treatments went back to normal and remained there;

this is after being treated 2 years with acupuncture and Chinese herbs. I guess

the herbs that the Oriental medicine use are not the garden variety that folks

grow

such as camomile, basil, dandelion, and such. That's why they are noted as

'Chinese'. The dispensary called off the list to me of what I received to

'increase

yin' and for headache, a list which consisted of 20 barks pulverized into

powder.

And it is strong stuff. In the midst of hyper I could feel the action of the

powder in

2 minutes....but note that the tapasol had a VERY STRONG effect the first time I

only took 5 mg. It floored me. I stood still and couldn't move while I felt I

a

heaviness pushing me toward the floor which lasted around 30 seconds. The

second time it lasted a shorter moment, then nothing.

Now, I haven't read much of the bulletin boards but what I have read is that

folks in

Asia and Europe use the ATDs first and foremost because of the likelihood of

permanent remission--even if some folk are only temporarily stationary---back on

ATDs again. I do not know the percentage. You probably don't feel like looking

all that info up. But the folks from Europe; Netherlands, Germany, Great

Britain

all are offered ATDs for the disease first.

It is my impression that US doctors are very busy...not enough of them...good

for

competition of prices...and that RAI is offered with the idea that sustaining

the

thyroid is simple. I, personally, had a philosophical problem with attacking

the

gland which was not the initial place that the Graves was stemming from...but

there were numerous women I met at the time (because I couldn't stop talking

about having Graves disease) who had the thyroid removed or RAI with no

problem. They didn't even talk about the nuisance of getting to the right

amount

of synthetic hormone after the surgery or RAI. In fact, they weren't fat or

showed

problems with mental acuity. That's good! Still, going to the grave support

site

you will find hundreds maybe thousands of folks who after the RAI had symptoms

which doctors did not recognize as symptomatic to the RAI (dah!) and did not

treat the patient with the respect and urgency the problem presented as a

disability to their life. I just figure that corresponding with their time and

mentality

again about choosing RAI correlated closely....too closely. I don't like being

treated like a piece of furniture and matching the rug or color of wall

paint...fitting

into the doctor's schedule or line of knowledge. AND LET ME ADD THIS, is

correct when he says...it is common knowledge at the school of medicine...that

folks who become doctors do not after graduating keep in step with the protocol

of

treating illness...I mean that first step of offering RAI may not be up to

date...I

mean that cold packs/hot packs/aspirin...I like the butter on burns...have

changed

and the public may be more knowledgeable than the doctor. They are busy, God

Bless them, and you have to, you have to, look for yourself what is up to date

for

the disease ANY disease.

[Guest guest]

To all,

Just a note to the new folks, and a reminder to the others: When I was

treated for Graves w/acupuncture and nutrition, the Chinese dr. told me that

80 percent of people in China w/thyroid disease recover through acupuncture,

nutrition and herbs. This tells me that this disease is primarily one of

imbalance in the system, as Chinese medicine works by getting your system

back into balance.

I would encourage everyone to try Chinese medicine, along w/'s

supplements. I know it can be time consuming and somewhat expensive, but

once your system is balanced, the results are priceless. Within 2 years,

most people who have had RAI are hypoT, and have to take Synthroid for the

rest of their lives. This was not acceptable to me, as I did not want to

trade one illness for another--I wanted instead to attack the root cause of

the imbalance.

AntJoan

[Guest guest]

Aunt Joan, How long were you treated by the accup. with herbs/etc.? My

daughter did it for 4 months while off of tapazole and went hyper by the 5th

month.... of course entering college may have done her in I'm not sure. She

continues her treatment now and we are hopeful. Elaine

[Guest guest]

Dear Elaine,

I was treated for about a month when I was hyperT. However, about 1 year

after I got well, I started seeing an accupuncturist/herbalist regularly for

sinus problems.

Accupuncture/herbs may work in a relatively short time for some

people/conditions, or may take a while to work. I guess it depends on lots

of factors--the severity of the condition, the skill of the practitioner, how

difficult the patient is to " balance " (sometimes it can be tricky).

Sometimes you just have to hang in there, and sometimes it's best to find

another practitioner. I know that holistic medicine can sometimes be

frustrating, but Western medicine can be frustrating also, as well as

deadly--at least the holistic approach usually won't cause any harm.

Good luck,

AntJoan

[Guest guest]

Dear Ant Joan and Others,

Is it possible for you or others who have had success with chinese medicines

for hyperthyroidism to ask your practitioners the specific name or names of

the medicines they were given, the doseage, manufacturer, supplier, etc.?

Or would they be willing to sell the products to people such as myself if

sent a check or credit card?

I have been to two different chinese experts(supposedly trained in China and

of Chinese extraction). Their acupuncture treatments actually made may

condition worse, and they only provided me with gingko and ginseng. Ginseng

I think would be contraindicated, and the gingko gave me one of the worse

headaches Ive ever had, and is also, I beleive, not known for helping

hyperthyroidism.

As with all service individuals, there are some people who know more than

others. If you were fortunate enough to find a true diamond please let me

know. If you would prefer, please send a post to me directly. Thanks so

much.

>From: AntJoan@...

>Reply-hyperthyroidismegroups

>hyperthyroidismegroups

>Subject: Re: Remission temporary vs permanent

>Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:54:34 EST

>

><< text1.html >>

______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

susan

i too have experienced headache with ginko... i think i was taking too much.

i don't mess with it now, but i suppose if i were to take it again i'd take

just a little. i start accupunture on thursday. i am curious what herbs

will be suggested etc... i will ask the accupunturist if you can buy them,

assuming she will prescribe more than ginko and ginseng or a different regime

all together.

mary wa state

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

My Chinese acupuncturist did not use herbs that I remember--he went more

w/nutrition (e.g., eat tofu and broccoli if you are hyperT). I think we can

do a lot w/diet (many posts on this board from last year discussed foods that

many found helpful/harmful). I guess you can access them through the

archives.

Good luck,

AntJoan

[Guest guest]

For those interested in herbs, you may want to read info dated 2-11-00, on

Medscape.com, as to safety issues. Joyce

[Guest guest]

LeAnn,

What an eloquent letter you have written. I am very interested in the

herbs or combinations of herbs that you are having success with. I use

herbs for my peri-menopausal condition with great results and use

echinecea, golden seal, kava, milkthistle, valerian and others as needed.

We have a store in my town called Rosemary's Garden where I can purchase

high quality herbs and tinctures. Any information you are able to share

regarding specifics would be greatly appreciated.

[Guest guest]

Dear Joyce,

I checked out the medscape web site and understand their caution and

concern regarding medicinal herbs. There are alot of products out there and

no regulations on the manufacturing of them. Herbs have a shelf life that

is shorter than drugs. It is generally recommended that you use your herb

within 1 year from the time you pick it. However, after that time, you can

still take them, you just need more of them to do the same job.

Other herbs are only good when used fresh or tinctured fresh (ie

bugleweed, sheep sorrel). However, as far as herbs " safety " I have to

admit they seemed to not be a very good resource for this. They admit that

the medical profession in the US has done very few studies on herbs. Other

countries, like Germany have done much more. Is that the only way to test

an herb? I don't think so. I get herb information from people who had

life-threatening diseases that the medical community had " no answers for. "

(Like us hyperthyroid people, sometimes). Jethro Kloss and Dr.

were told they wouldn't live long and because of herbs lived a good long and

very healthy life.

Herbs are very different than medications. In many cases they will make

you nauseasted or achy as an indication that you need to cut back on them.

Medications on the otherhand could be lethal, but never give you a clue that

you are getting too much.

Also herbs when left in their whole form have a combination of chemicals

that balance each other. The creator knew what he was doing. When medical

" experts " take something out of an herb and isolate it (like digoxin) they

think they've done a great thing! They believe they are doing their

patient's justice, but what they've done is taken the " safety features "

built into the herbs and throwing them away, while leaving a medication far

more potent (and usually with considerably more side effects).

As a nurse for 20 years I've seen many patients on as much as 100 pills

a day. Many were counter-acting the side effects the other meds were giving

them. All of them end up damaging kidneys, stomach or livers for the long

haul because this is not the way the Lord created us to handle these

substances.

I have a daughter with a rare and serious reaction to antibiotics. She

frequently gets urinary tract or kidney infections. I tried the " medical

route " and she only got sicker. With herbs she gets less side effects and

more thorough relief of symptoms. With antibiotics, besides the deadly

" drug fevers " she gets yeast infections and the next infection comes around

sooner because her " immune system " is weakened by every dose of antibiotic.

I have a " pre-clinical " hyperthyroid condition that medical experts tell

me are " something other than thyroid problems. " They have no idea what it

is, just convinced it's " not my thyroid. " Nevertheless, 's supplements

and healing herbs externally on my neck and internally are relieving

symptoms that previously were not able to be relieved by much of anything.

We need caution, especially with us " hyperthyroid " people who react to

iodine, silica and some of us to " yeast " products. Nevertheless, with

careful study and use of herbs in as natural state as possible (Purchasing

bulk herbs from reputable dealers provides the strongest herb for the

cheapest price). They can be putsy, but that is about the worst thing I can

say for herbs.

I am disappointed at the medical profession and disappointed by the

medscape's bias in their articles. They admittedly know very little and

sound like they want to be better informed but they are approaching herbs

from a " medical model mindset. " I've discovered that the medical model is a

VERY flawed approach to MANY medical problems and is the basis for much

speculation and mistakes by medical professionals. I know modern medicine

has saved many, many lives and I'm thrilled they have. They have also often

traded one health condition for another and seem intent on treating symptoms

instead of healing the root problem. Herbal medicine goes to the " root of

the problem " sometimes literally.

Just my opinion, but based on years of " believing that model " and being

disappointed by it over and over again. Though I've made some erroneous

decisions with herbs, they have brought healing despite those errors,

healing ulcers, infections (even strep throat), provided pain relief and

improved my ability to concentrate, remember details and are now in the

process of healing my thyroid.

When medical experts start talking about herbs, use caution. They

generally do not know very much about what they are talking about.

Le Ann

[Guest guest]

Dear Debbie,

I'm presently using olive leaf and blue vervain for chronic candida

which I am suspecting as one of the root causes of the autoimmune problems.

I have added to this 1 part lobelia to 3 parts mullein as a glandular

healer. I take motherwort to decrease my thyroid output. I add gingko

tincture and a tincture combination I made that are also supposed to help

heal my thyroid. In this tincture is licorice root, astralagus, dandelion,

burdock, and a few other things I can't remember right now. I combine all

this and drink it as a tea. The lobelia, blue vervain and motherwort are

all " nervines " .

Today I added to this mix plantain because I've been running a fever and

having chills everynight for about 1 1/2 weeks now. I'm not sure if I

didn't get rid of all the strep throat I had several weeks ago, or if it is

caused by the candida I am killing.

I use this complete mixture externally (as a nightly poltice around my

neck) and internally. Last night, I tried just using a poltice on my

chest since I was having some chest congestion and figured I didn't need the

herbs in both places. I woke up at 3 am for the first time since I started

these poltices (I was wide awake by 3 or 4 at least 3-4 x/wk before this).

I put the poltice back on my throat at 3 am and slept until 6 am. This too

is unusual since the hyperthryoid problems.

I notice a lot of drainage in the back of my throat since using the

poltices. I suspect it is draining poisons or some kind of bugs from my

system. I also am taking a considerable amount of 's supplements in the

last week. I don't know what to attribute my lack of hyper symptoms and

calm, but something is working.

I had been on natural progesterone cream but it made me so fertile (yet

still kept having miscarriages and then getting really hyper after each). I

also realized that this too is just relieving " symptoms " like medical Dr.s

tend to do. Our immune system is not simply attacking our thyroids, it is

likely to be attacking other hormone producing organs or the hormones

themselves. Wherever the " bugs " we have are invading our body, is where our

immune system will fight, I suspect. For each of us it will be different.

That's why some have more joint pain, while others more hormonal imbalances.

I loved how I felt on progesterone cream and continued on it for months

because the risk of another miscarriage didn't outweigh the benefits of

being a " nice mommy. " After the 3rd miscarriage my daughter begged me to go

back on the progesterone cream. I did for awhile, but now that I understand

hyperthyroidism and the autoimmune process a little better, I guess I wanted

to see how I would do on the nervine herbs instead. So far I feel really

good. The last time I went off progesterone cream I got really achy and

sore and extremely irritable about 3 months after I quit taking it. It's

too early to tell yet, but I suspect that increasing my MSM and sulfur

intakes may prevent any arthritic flairups if need be.

Well this is my story. What have you found helpful for the thyroid,

hormones and especially for the " mental lapses " after a hyperthyroid

episode. My gingkgo simply doesn't " touch " it after an episode. That's why

I'm working hard at doing what I can to prevent the hyper times.

Thanks for the compliment on eloquence, I am a correspondent for our

local paper, I guess the practice helps.

Le Ann