Guest guest Posted March 10, 2000 Report Share Posted March 10, 2000 In a message dated 3/9/00 6:36:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, elh@... writes: << I also wonder what would happen if you heal the gland that is causing the problem, if the TED would go away. I know when you remove the thyroid it eventually goes away, so why not if an herb will actually heal the thyroid? >> Hi Everyone, This is a common misconception about thyroid eye disease (TED or ophthalmopathy or orbitopathy). Destroying the thyroid by radioactive iodine (RAI) or removing the thyroid by surgery causes (on average) an increase in TED. RAI appears to cause more worsening than surgery, but both affect TED more adversely than antithyroid drugs. This is very nonintuitive and is one of the more interesting aspects of hyperthyroidism. TED is not associated with the levels of thyroid hormone but seems to be caused by factors which increase hyperT (and sometimes hypoT). In other words, you can give people or animals thyroid hormone in excess and it will not cause TED, and decreasing thyroid hormone by any means does not decrease TED. Perhaps even more interesting is why RAI (and surgery to a lesser extent) increases TED. Many researchers speculate that the reason for this increase in TED is because RAI greatly increases the amount of free radicals (from the radiation). This is an interesting hypothesis, but I'm not so sure about it. I would think that the radiation would dissipate over months and the production of free radicals would diminish. Thus if this theory were correct, I would expect an increase in TED for a while and then a decrease. This may be what happens, but I haven't seen any research supporting this. My two best theories are these: (1) That the same nutrient deficiencies which cause Grave's and Hashimoto's diseases also cause the fibroblast proliferation that produces TED and pretibial myxedema; and (2) that the thyroid gland protects the body in some way from the fibroblast proliferation that causes TED (and pretibial myxedema). When the thyroid gland is unhealthy from conditions (deficiencies) which produce either hyperT or hypoT, it is not able to protect the body from this fibroblast proliferation. To determine which theory is correct (if either), a 2 x 2 factorial experiment could be performed, which supplemented and unsupplemented groups vs. intact and removed thyroid gland groups. The bottom line is that RAI and surgery worsen TED and even cause TED in persons who didn't have it before. This is an extremely potent reason for avoiding RAI and surgery and staying on antithyroid drugs to control the symptoms while working on reversing the condition through nutritional supplementation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2000 Report Share Posted March 10, 2000 , I wish I had found you before my RAI---You know---the road not taken-- K. Thyroid Eye Disease (TED) >In a message dated 3/9/00 6:36:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, >elh@... writes: ><< I also wonder what would happen if you > heal the gland that is causing the problem, if the TED would go away. I > know when you remove the thyroid it eventually goes away, so why not if an > herb will actually heal the thyroid? >> >Hi Everyone, > This is a common misconception about thyroid eye disease (TED or >ophthalmopathy or orbitopathy). Destroying the thyroid by radioactive iodine >(RAI) or removing the thyroid by surgery causes (on average) an increase in >TED. RAI appears to cause more worsening than surgery, but both affect TED >more adversely than antithyroid drugs. > This is very nonintuitive and is one of the more interesting aspects of >hyperthyroidism. TED is not associated with the levels of thyroid hormone >but seems to be caused by factors which increase hyperT (and sometimes >hypoT). In other words, you can give people or animals thyroid hormone in >excess and it will not cause TED, and decreasing thyroid hormone by any means >does not decrease TED. > Perhaps even more interesting is why RAI (and surgery to a lesser extent) >increases TED. Many researchers speculate that the reason for this increase >in TED is because RAI greatly increases the amount of free radicals (from the >radiation). This is an interesting hypothesis, but I'm not so sure about it. > I would think that the radiation would dissipate over months and the >production of free radicals would diminish. Thus if this theory were >correct, I would expect an increase in TED for a while and then a decrease. >This may be what happens, but I haven't seen any research supporting this. > My two best theories are these: (1) That the same nutrient deficiencies >which cause Grave's and Hashimoto's diseases also cause the fibroblast >proliferation that produces TED and pretibial myxedema; and (2) that the >thyroid gland protects the body in some way from the fibroblast proliferation >that causes TED (and pretibial myxedema). When the thyroid gland is >unhealthy from conditions (deficiencies) which produce either hyperT or >hypoT, it is not able to protect the body from this fibroblast proliferation. >To determine which theory is correct (if either), a 2 x 2 factorial >experiment could be performed, which supplemented and unsupplemented groups >vs. intact and removed thyroid gland groups. > The bottom line is that RAI and surgery worsen TED and even cause TED in >persons who didn't have it before. This is an extremely potent reason for >avoiding RAI and surgery and staying on antithyroid drugs to control the >symptoms while working on reversing the condition through nutritional >supplementation. > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >MAXIMIZE YOUR CARD, MINIMIZE YOUR RATE! >Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as >0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. >Apply NOW! >1/2122/5/_/6563/_/952700722/ > >eGroups.com Home: hyperthyroidism/ > - Simplifying group communications > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2000 Report Share Posted March 14, 2000 - One thing I forgot to mention - My right eye's vision went really bad after taking the radio - pill for the thyroid scan - all docotors say this has nothing to do - with what I ingested - I went right away to the eye doctor and he said I had " premature macular degeneration..........and am now " legally blind in my right eye. I still have vision in it - but it looks wavy..........strange I never noticed this before that test .......of course all I hear are denials that if could have anything to do with this...........strange co-incidence? Melinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2000 Report Share Posted March 14, 2000 - Thanks for the reply - I am getting down to the wire here with this radiation blitz to my tumor- the allopaths are totally negative about any other method. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me - as I don't just have hyper-T it's complicated by this tumor. All the Best - Melinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2000 Report Share Posted March 14, 2000 Melinda, In sort of a rush at the moment, so not a long response -- but I would be very very suspicious of any eye problems that began immediately after the radioactive scan. If you do have RAI, know that that tx is now widely believed to bring on or increase TED, if that is indeed what you're seeing an indiciation of. TED is very slippery, it manifests itself in a number of ways. I went to three opthalmologists before my GD diagnosis and they all told me I had allergy related conjunctivitis or some toher benign problem. Well, three weeks after the last visit I was taping my eyes shut. If you do have RAI and believe you have TED, the recommendation is to take prednisone with RAI, another set of risks involved with that drug. I'm not sure about the tumor on your thyroid going away by another other than removal. Are you totally opposed to surgery because of the risks to the vocal chords? Anybody else have any ideas here? Re: Thyroid Eye Disease (TED) > - One thing I forgot to mention - My right eye's vision went really bad > after taking the radio - pill for the thyroid scan - all docotors say this > has nothing to do - with what I ingested - I went right away to the eye > doctor and he said I had " premature macular degeneration..........and am now > " legally blind in my right eye. I still have vision in it - but it looks > wavy..........strange I never noticed this before that test .......of course > all I hear are denials that if could have anything to do with > this...........strange co-incidence? > > Melinda > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > PERFORM CPR ON YOUR APR! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > 1/2121/5/_/6563/_/953014080/ > > -- Talk to your group with your own voice! > -- VoiceChatPage?listName=hyperthyroidism & m=1 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2000 Report Share Posted March 14, 2000 I have a friend, who 10 years ago with hyper t was told to have RAI. She refused and insisted on surgery. She went to several docs until she found a surgeon who would take the thyroid or part of it. They did not think she had cancer. Well, guess what, she ended up having Ca. She refused RAI after. (She had a mom who died of leukemia after some radiation) She was afraid of it. She is doing well on replacement. I know you don't have to be in a hurry. It is your body and you have to make a reasonable decision you can live with. We all struggle with this decision. Good luck and be well, Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2000 Report Share Posted March 15, 2000 , My opthamologist said that it is possible that the TED would improve 2-3 years after RAI. Perhaps this supports your theory?? " temk " <tem-@...> wrote: original article:hyperthyroidism/?start=44 73 > , > > I wish I had found you before my RAI---You know---the road not taken-- > > K. > > > Thyroid Eye Disease (TED) > > > >In a message dated 3/9/00 6:36:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, > >elh@... writes: > ><< I also wonder what would happen if you > > heal the gland that is causing the problem, if the TED would go away. I > > know when you remove the thyroid it eventually goes away, so why not if an > > herb will actually heal the thyroid? >> > >Hi Everyone, > > This is a common misconception about thyroid eye disease (TED or > >ophthalmopathy or orbitopathy). Destroying the thyroid by radioactive > iodine > >(RAI) or removing the thyroid by surgery causes (on average) an increase in > >TED. RAI appears to cause more worsening than surgery, but both affect TED > >more adversely than antithyroid drugs. > > This is very nonintuitive and is one of the more interesting aspects of > >hyperthyroidism. TED is not associated with the levels of thyroid hormone > >but seems to be caused by factors which increase hyperT (and sometimes > >hypoT). In other words, you can give people or animals thyroid hormone in > >excess and it will not cause TED, and decreasing thyroid hormone by any > means > >does not decrease TED. > > Perhaps even more interesting is why RAI (and surgery to a lesser > extent) > >increases TED. Many researchers speculate that the reason for this > increase > >in TED is because RAI greatly increases the amount of free radicals (from > the > >radiation). This is an interesting hypothesis, but I'm not so sure about > it. > > I would think that the radiation would dissipate over months and the > >production of free radicals would diminish. Thus if this theory were > >correct, I would expect an increase in TED for a while and then a decrease. > >This may be what happens, but I haven't seen any research supporting this. > > My two best theories are these: (1) That the same nutrient > deficiencies > >which cause Grave's and Hashimoto's diseases also cause the fibroblast > >proliferation that produces TED and pretibial myxedema; and (2) that the > >thyroid gland protects the body in some way from the fibroblast > proliferation > >that causes TED (and pretibial myxedema). When the thyroid gland is > >unhealthy from conditions (deficiencies) which produce either hyperT or > >hypoT, it is not able to protect the body from this fibroblast > proliferation. > >To determine which theory is correct (if either), a 2 x 2 factorial > >experiment could be performed, which supplemented and unsupplemented groups > >vs. intact and removed thyroid gland groups. > > The bottom line is that RAI and surgery worsen TED and even cause TED > in > >persons who didn't have it before. This is an extremely potent reason for > >avoiding RAI and surgery and staying on antithyroid drugs to control the > >symptoms while working on reversing the condition through nutritional > >supplementation. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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