Re: LOUISE HAYS CAUSE FOR THYROID

[Guest guest]

Dear

Funny you should mention Lousie Hays. Just the other day, a professor of

mine recommended the book (for a different problem). Anyway, that hyperT one

" I feel left out--when is it going to be my turn? " , anger at being left

out--that's me to a T (so to speak). Maybe there is something to this Louise

Hays stuff!

Regards,

AntJoan

[Guest guest]

I do...I think the mind / body connection is very real and changes the

chemicals in our brains and our bodies for the worse when we have feelings of

rejection etc. I am going to be taking a 6 week course with my HMO dealing

with the mind/body and disease; I think this is an untapped area in the

medical field that needs to be dealt with. Disease is 85% from the mind I

think and the rest is genetics...

I have heard we can grow things to make up for the lost in our life; things

like tumors, goiters, etc. I would rather buy the teaddy bear, or the

flowers for myself; we need to revisit our childhood and repair the damage,

make up for the lost...

Sheri Lynn

[Guest guest]

just reading email from yesterday. Yes, that suits me also. I am

the oldest sibling in my fam. Always the caretaker. Yessss, when IS IT

GOING TO BE MY TURN?????

Thanks for pointing that out.

Deb

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/9/00 12:05:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

mshomon@... writes:

<< I always feel a bit uncomfortable with some of the aspects of her writing

that seem to blame the victim. Does anyone else get that feeling at times?

>>

Hi and Everyone,

I agree with about this. I don't see any connection at all with

different types of illness stemming from different types of stress. These

are such subjective observations and I doubt if Louise Hays ever did any type

of unbiased analysis.

[Guest guest]

I think Louise Hay has a lot of really wonderful things to say about

healing and the mind-body connection. But I always feel a bit

uncomfortable with some of the aspects of her writing that seem to blame

the victim. Does anyone else get that feeling at times? I mean, I know

the key role that emotions and stress can play a part in thyroid

disease, but after studying all this stuff about nutritional

difficulties, and toxic exposures, and autoimmune diseases, sometimes

there seem to be many physical things at work that are a regular

juggernaut for your thyroid or your health.

I would just hate for someone who was hypothyroid due to radiation

exposure or excessive perchlorate or fluoride in the water supply, or

hyperthyroid due to nutritional imbalances, for example, to think that

just because she/he didn't speak up enough, she got a thyroid problem.

Instead of blaming the shoddy nuclear plant, or the authorities who

allow stuff to contaminate tap water, or instead of figuring out how to

correct the nutritional problems, she/he's blaming her/himself.

It's just something I've been thinking about as relates to a lot of the

theories of mind-body medicine. I think that stress (including the kind

you get when you feel stifled, or unappreciated, or unable to speak up),

can contribute to illness. But I don't know if it's apples to apples...

i.e.,

don't speak up -- get thyroid problem

don't feel you can run away from problems -- get leg problems

etc.

Anyone else have thoughts about this?

[Guest guest]

I would have had the BIGGEST goiter if 'victim' were the case scenario.

Actually,

the hyperT came when I was at my highest paying job (and I earned it!)

Everything

was going well until people started to die. I may have had hyperT before this

job,

like when I felt left out (which would mean hypoT) but the heat, feelings of

loss of

control, crying out in emotion, crying, and heart palpitations came when people

started dying. It all happened so suddenly at a time when I was UP! And I feel

that the universe had planned it for that particular time...I was confused I was

so

happy and now so stoned cold. (There was an old neighbor who went into a

nursing home and died. There was my best older friend diagnosed with breast

cancer. OH!) Then the hook; my daughter's friend died at age 15; went into a

coma at work; went on life support; life support was pulled; and this RAGE came

over me like I never felt in my whole life. I was so angry I FROZE! It was then

I

broke. My thinking and feelings were not united anymore. I will admit; there was

a

guy I dated who was probably a homosexual and I felt cheated and that I would

NEVER marry! That was emotional and happened 1 month before the death of

April. I had seen her a month before and she looked fine. Looking back, the

remorse over the things I would have said if I knew she was going to leave. And

instead of going to the hospital when I heard I drove to visit someone in

Seattle;

when I came back it was over. It was so incredibly complex the pattern of

events;

it brought back the guilt I felt over my best girlfriend born around the same

date

and dying suddenly overnight and how I wrote to her for her birthday that year

apologizing for so many things. It's been 2 years Feb 1 since April died. I

still cry.

I feel so deeply she was so warm and alive and valuable and she will be missed.

In fact, the employer that fired me 3/8 included the complaint that I took 2.5

hours

off to mourn a loss of another daughter's friend. It was legitimate too; against

company policy of what an employer can expect of an employee. I was outraged

again and you don't want to know what I did about it. So now that everything is

water on the land and I have to go around it....I will have to go around it.

Eileen

On 9 Apr 00, at 8:16, Ccherblady@... wrote:

In her book, Louise Hays has this idea for the cause of Thyroid

problems...

Thyroid

Probable Cause-humiliation ( " I never get to do what I want to do. When is it

going to be my turn?)

Hyper-T

Probable cause...Rage at being left out.

Hypo_t -

Probable cause... Giving up. Feelilng hopelesslystifled.

Goiter...

Probable cause... hatred for being inflicted upon... Victim.Feeling thwarted

in Life . Unfullfilled.

Does anyone feel that these causes are for real????? Just

curious............Chris

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[Guest guest]

Dear ,

I agree. The Louse Hays kind of thinking is a double-edged sword. On the

one hand, illness IS an expression of our mind-body connection, and so, on

some level, our thoughts may manifest in bodily symptoms. On the other hand,

as you say, this has a " blame the victim " component to it, and does not take

into account economic, cultural, ecological, nutritional, etc., factors. I

don't believe in allopathic medicine (except in emergency situations), but

sometimes when alternative healers tell me that, in the end, I will heal

myself, I ask them, " Then why am I paying you all this money? " If I could

heal myself, why would I need them?

Certainly not all diseases are due to inner thoughts or frame of mind. It

may be a component in some cases, though. I guess we have to be careful--any

illness may have any number of causes, and I guess it's up to us, w/the help

of healers, to figure out the causes, and the solutions.

AntJoan

[Guest guest]

B,

That was well said! It is so good to hear someone speak of health issues in

the context of the political/economic system. There sure is more to our

illnesses than our belief system, although, as you say, the powers that be

may not want us to think so.

AntJoan

[Guest guest]

> I think Louise Hay has a lot of really wonderful things to say about

> healing and the mind-body connection. But I always feel a bit

> uncomfortable with some of the aspects of her writing that seem to blame

> the victim. Does anyone else get that feeling at times> juggernaut for

your thyroid or your health.

>

> Instead of blaming the shoddy nuclear plant, or the authorities who

> allow stuff to contaminate tap water, or instead of figuring out how to

> correct the nutritional problems, she/he's blaming her/himself.

>

and all,

I've been thinking about these issues here and there, as I've spent the past

three months finishing a dissertation that deals with how medicine

constructs its objects of study, anorexia in particular. I have mixed

feelings about Louise Hay's work and the work of other people that lays

responsibility for illness and death in the hands of the sick person--even

as I attend to these issues and consider them in the context of my own

health.

General thoughts:

1. I don't believe it's a coincidence that there's a tremendous surge of

alternative healing texts and literature that places " health " solidly in the

hands of the individual at the same time there's there's a tremendous

increase in environmental threats to the health that are human-made. Not

that I think there's a conscious conspiracy, but it is convenient for major

polluting coporations and governements and indeed, individuals, to see

illness as something caused by emotion (and the individual) rather than by

the output/production of the economy. Throughout history, there have

always been these sorts of trends: a social problem emerges (like the

toxins we're loading into our land, lacing into our food etc) and there's a

countermove to depoliticize and distract attention. By countermove I mean

that certain views are more welcome and more easily deployed at certain

times than others: so at this time in our environmental/political history

there's something reassuring about the mind/body connection to the

individual (whew, I don't have to lobby Congress about estrogen in canned

foods--just gotta check my chakras and I can do that tonight before bedtime)

and something reassuring to media/corporations, etc. all that are invested

in maintaining the economy and lifestyle as we know it. I personally feel

that the more we remove health from the larger culture--whether that means

removing health from the context of poverty, racisim, environment, politics

etc.--the less accurate our view of health really is.

2. The mind/body connection is as old as humanity!! The split between

consciousness and body is relatively recent and most historians trace it to

Decartes era (1600s) when philosophers, scientists, religious thinkers all

made a demarcation between the mind and body--a split that exists and is now

being contested, today. Before this -- and there's a lot of centuries

before the 1600s--there were no clear distinctions between the body and

mind. A person's emotions, spiritual life, etc. were absolutely understood

as part of their physical body. I'm not communicating this very well, but

suffice it to say, even to talk about a mind/body connection wouldn't have

been understood because there were no seperations. Not that we're the same

as a species as we were four hundred years ago, but it's interesting that

the alternative health movement that talks about mind/body connection tends

to talk as if it was either A) discovering something amazing or bringing

" eastern " understandings to the " west " There's a long western tradition of

such a connection that underwent a major transformation in the 1600s.

3. So, where does this leave us? I'm not sure but frankly, I really

welcomed 's question because these are really, really important issues.

There must be a way to reframe our understanding of the mind and body as an

integrated whole that also sees the individual as part of a larger, cultural

whole (and by this, I mean as inseparable from " culture " as the mind is from

body) --and then health becomes political as well as personal, to draw on an

old sixties slogan.

Other thoughts?

well. . . I did avoid that dissertation for 15 minutes if nothing else!!

[Guest guest]

What a really interesting analysis you've written here! SO many things

to think about...the relationship of big

business/government/pharmaceutical companies and even doctors in some

case, which doesn't mind if we blame ourselves (because then we're not

blaming them...) and the idea of health as an integrated concept that

involves mind, body, environment, and how in many ways of thought, those

elements can't be separated out.

Raises the question for me about all the recent media emphasis on how

" easy " it is to treat hypothyroidism. With the Parade magazine article,

and then I just finished a DREADFUL new book, The Thyroid Solution,

which talks over and over again about how simple it is to live without a

thyroid, and how hypothyroidism is easy to treat, and how all the

symptoms and side effects are " extremely easy " (that's a quote) to treat

with one simple pill. It's written, of course, by a couple of thyroid

surgeons, who also do a fair bit of RAI, over at the Columbia

Presbyterian Thyroid Center in NYC. How convenient, then, if you feel

terrible after surgery, or after RAI, or after taking your little pill

(which makes a couple of companies a LOT of money) because then it must

be the patient's fault, it must be in our heads, because, after all,

it's so EASY!

Anyway, I'm sure your disseration must be fascinating if it reads

anything like your post! Lots of fascinating things to think about!

B wrote:

> I've been thinking about these issues here and there, as I've spent the past

> three months finishing a dissertation that deals with how medicine

> constructs its objects of study, anorexia in particular. I have mixed

> feelings about Louise Hay's work and the work of other people that lays

> responsibility for illness and death in the hands of the sick person--even

[Guest guest]

Hello Everyone!

I hadn't even heard of the Hay book before today. Don't even know

which title of hers is being referenced here. (I'm currently

reading Wiley's book on acid/alkaline balance.) So I can't

contribute

a book report, but....

This discussion contains some very thought-provoking comments about

this emotional stress " angle. " BTW, I remember how they used to

constantly mention " The Thyroid Solution " on a heavily-censored board

I used to visit...... and that book apparently covers a great deal of

the " emotional " aspect of this disease, as well.

Anyway, I'm not sure if this Hay book just refers to emotional stress

as being the trigger, or if she is also referring to emotional stress

as keeping it from going into remission.

However, when I read Chris's first post this morning about Hay's

explanation of the " cause for thyroid " - I got to thinking how I fear

rejection more than just about anything else. But as the day wore

on,

I began to realize..... isn't that a normal human fear?

How many of us--healthy or ill--are so totally confident and content

that we never feel insecure .... or totally outraged. We all have

heartbreaking, traumatic experiences, and we all have highly stressed

episodes in our lives. Why doesn't everybody have thyroid

disease....

or do they?

Seems it would it be more profitable if everybody DID get " diagnosed "

with thyroid disorders. Maybe I'm imagining things, but the media

seems to be " advertising " thyroid disease lately. Eight million have

thyroid disease ... and don't even know it yet. Egad!

I agree with B. that this history-repeats-itself strategy of

easily diverting attention away from a social problem could possibly

apply here.

I'm growing nodules because I need more stuff in my life...

Ya think? Sheesh!

Emotional Stress vs Nutrition:

One of the most frustrating, emotionally STRESSED periods in my life,

was the 3 weeks I spent fighting for my life while in the hospital a

few years ago. Interestingly, my only nutrient intake was a

perfectly

balanced, high-quality tube-feed solution.

The doctors dropped the Inderal after the first couple of days,

because it was no longer necessary--my heart rate was in a normal

rhythm, and had dropped to 48 beats per minute. The heart

medications were dropped, because my pulse needed to be increased....

(Also, I was not given Tap during that time because I was told that

it

was not feasible to do so.) >>> I had no thyroid symptoms during

that

period of time.

However, shortly after I returned home, and back to my old eating

habits, and environment, I started developing atrial fibrillation and

had to resume the Inderal and Tap as well.

In other words (I am a wordy one...):

---- Immeasurable emotional stress AND near-perfect, nutrition = no

thyroid symptoms.

---- Back home to " regular " stress BUT also my previous weird,

unbalanced eating habits = my thyroid symptoms returned.

In closing, I can now name about two dozen possible (non-emotional)

" triggers " for my thyroid disorder, which was first " diagnosed " in

1979. Actually, I believe that " diagnosis " might in some cases be a

trigger in itself...... but that's another wild idea on the back

burner, so I'll leave it at that.

Finding this great Board and all of you wonderful people is like

coming home to family. We WILL get to the bottom of this mystery!

Chris

>

>

>

>

> > I think Louise Hay has a lot of really wonderful things to say

about

> > healing and the mind-body connection. But I always feel a bit

> > uncomfortable with some of the aspects of her writing that seem

to

blame

> > the victim. Does anyone else get that feeling at times>

juggernaut

for

> your thyroid or your health.

> >

> > Instead of blaming the shoddy nuclear plant, or the authorities

who

> > allow stuff to contaminate tap water, or instead of figuring out

how to

> > correct the nutritional problems, she/he's blaming her/himself.

> >

>

> and all,

>

> I've been thinking about these issues here and there, as I've spent

the past

> three months finishing a dissertation that deals with how medicine

> constructs its objects of study, anorexia in particular. I have

mixed

> feelings about Louise Hay's work and the work of other people that

lays

> responsibility for illness and death in the hands of the sick

person--even

> as I attend to these issues and consider them in the context of my

own

> health.

>

> General thoughts:

>

> 1. I don't believe it's a coincidence that there's a tremendous

surge of

> alternative healing texts and literature that places " health "

solidly in the

> hands of the individual at the same time there's there's a

tremendous

> increase in environmental threats to the health that are

human-made.

Not

> that I think there's a conscious conspiracy, but it is convenient

for major

> polluting coporations and governements and indeed, individuals, to

see

> illness as something caused by emotion (and the individual) rather

than by

> the output/production of the economy. Throughout history, there

have

> always been these sorts of trends: a social problem emerges (like

the

> toxins we're loading into our land, lacing into our food etc) and

there's a

> countermove to depoliticize and distract attention. By countermove

I mean

> that certain views are more welcome and more easily deployed at

certain

> times than others: so at this time in our environmental/political

history

> there's something reassuring about the mind/body connection to the

> individual (whew, I don't have to lobby Congress about estrogen in

canned

> foods--just gotta check my chakras and I can do that tonight before

bedtime)

> and something reassuring to media/corporations, etc. all that are

invested

> in maintaining the economy and lifestyle as we know it. I

personally feel

> that the more we remove health from the larger culture--whether

that

means

> removing health from the context of poverty, racisim, environment,

politics

> etc.--the less accurate our view of health really is.

>

> 2. The mind/body connection is as old as humanity!! The split

between

> consciousness and body is relatively recent and most historians

trace it to

> Decartes era (1600s) when philosophers, scientists, religious

thinkers all

> made a demarcation between the mind and body--a split that exists

and is now

> being contested, today. Before this -- and there's a lot of

centuries

> before the 1600s--there were no clear distinctions between the body

and

> mind. A person's emotions, spiritual life, etc. were absolutely

understood

> as part of their physical body. I'm not communicating this very

well, but

> suffice it to say, even to talk about a mind/body connection

wouldn't have

> been understood because there were no seperations. Not that we're

the same

> as a species as we were four hundred years ago, but it's

interesting

that

> the alternative health movement that talks about mind/body

connection tends

> to talk as if it was either A) discovering something amazing or

bringing

> " eastern " understandings to the " west " There's a long western

tradition of

> such a connection that underwent a major transformation in the

1600s.

>

> 3. So, where does this leave us? I'm not sure but frankly, I

really

> welcomed 's question because these are really, really important

issues.

> There must be a way to reframe our understanding of the mind and

body as an

> integrated whole that also sees the individual as part of a larger,

cultural

> whole (and by this, I mean as inseparable from " culture " as the

mind

is from

> body) --and then health becomes political as well as personal, to

draw on an

> old sixties slogan.

>

> Other thoughts?

>

>

> well. . . I did avoid that dissertation for 15 minutes if nothing

else!!