Re: [MedicaidforHDOT] Regarding Medicaid and HBOT

August 1, 2003

In a message dated 8/1/2003 1:13:07 PM Central Daylight Time,

dfreels@... writes:

> The difference(s) between the IHA and IHMA was a frequent source of

> controversy, confusion, and tension during the symposium. Some people

> joined the IHA believing they were joining the IHMA. There may have been

> others who joined the IHMA when they believed they were actually joining

> the IHA. At one point IHMA membership applications and literature was found

> on the IHA table.

>

you are totaly wrong. I was at the IHA both most of the symposium.

Everyone was explained the difference between the two. They asked which one to

join and they were told both. I can't believe anyone would even say that there

was confusion there it was made perfectly clear to all those that joined that

the IHA and IHMA were different organizations. Moving in the same direction in a

scenes. The membership information that you claimed was found on the IHA

table Now I don't think that happened but if you remember correctly the IHA was

the only booth serving refreshments and people came in the both making coffee

and getting refreshments could have left something on the table it was not

intentional if that happened. But if someone filled out an application they was

explained what they were joining and that the two were not the same. Who are

these others that you are speaking of that thought they were joining instead of

the other I don't no of one person on the list that thought they were joining

one organization instead of the other. Now that is totally off base here. But IM

not gripping IM just explaining Hopefully no one takes offense to this email.

Darin

August 1, 2003

In a message dated 8/1/2003 2:58:59 PM Central Standard Time, Bry8825@...

writes:

> The difference(s) between the IHA and IHMA was a frequent source of

> >controversy, confusion, and tension during the symposium. Some people

> >joined the IHA believing they were joining the IHMA. There may have been

> >others who joined the IHMA when they believed they were actually joining

> >the IHA. At one point IHMA membership applications and literature was found

> >on the IHA table.

> >

,

This is NOT true. I can't believe that professional people would stoop to

this. I was in that booth for most of the conference and it was made clear that

there are two organizations....and which one the booth was for. I guess the

big sign could have been their first clue. This kind of behavior within the hbo

community is the reason HBO for BI isn't taken seriously. Who would take

anyone seriously when they fight their battles with these type of tactics. Show

the

proof or stop the lies.

ette

August 1, 2003

In a message dated 8/1/2003 4:26:44 PM Central Daylight Time,

dfreels@... writes:

> Broader issue #1, Darin, we need to get some sort of documentation from

> Wisconsin Medicaid so Lynn can take that into her August 12th hearing. Have

> you heard anything else from ? I have not.

>

Yes, . I have spoken with she is very busy im Meetings. They are

working on that issue as we speak. My fax still did not go through to you.

But all is well I want to wait till I get the documentation in had before I have

anyone call the guy from Washington I have ben speaking with. If and when he

sends this document it will be good for all of us.

,

> This is NOT true. I can't believe that professional people would stoop to

>this. I was in that booth for most of the conference and it was made clear

>that

>there are two organizations....and which one the booth was for. I guess the

>big sign could have been their first clue. This kind of behavior within

>the hbo

>community is the reason HBO for BI isn't taken seriously. Who would take

>anyone seriously when they fight their battles with these type of tactics.

>Show the

>proof or stop the lies.

>ette

ett I commend you highly for standing up. You are correct and IM glad you

told what really happened. Cause you were at the booth more than I was.

Hearing it from two voices makes a greater statement. I don't know what the

alternative motive was behind that statement meant but the ones that made it do.

They

know I know alot more than I say. I know what they are expecting to happen.

Darin

August 1, 2003

>,

>Your comments about e are also uninformed. You need to

>actually talk to e.

I saw e at the 3rd symposium but did not get much of an opportunity to

actually speak to her. The first night there she had a cellophane-wrapped

package containing some sort of blue button thing that she attempted to

open numerous times but was unable. She did ask me if I was " still mad at

her. "

I've never been mad at her, just curious. A while back she was invited to

join the IHMA a few times and declined, stating she was going to sit on the

fence and not join any group. I later learned that she had joined the UHMS,

and at the 3rd symposium I was shown an IHA business card with e's

name on it--but no title.

I've since heard (at the symposium) and read (here or on hbotforcp) that

e is the Executive Director of the IHA.

The difference(s) between the IHA and IHMA was a frequent source of

controversy, confusion, and tension during the symposium. Some people

joined the IHA believing they were joining the IHMA. There may have been

others who joined the IHMA when they believed they were actually joining

the IHA. At one point IHMA membership applications and literature was found

on the IHA table.

Does any of this mean the IHA is a bad organization? No.

e Creacy has done an awful lot to bring public awareness to Hyperbaric

Oxygen Therapy. She has accomplished this in ways that no one else can do.

She has tremendous gifts and tremendous talents for getting in to see the

right people at the right time. She is to be commended, and I am often in

awe of her. She can orchestrate things that the rest of us can't even

imagine. She's incredible.

There's another talented and gifted individual who has carried the brunt of

the first two years of the IHMA's existence, often at great personal

expense and sacrifice. His name is Ken Locklear, and he too has been a

tremendous player in the achievements of the last two years. Ken too, is a

strong personality, and sometimes I have suspected there has been

occasional tension between Ken and e.

Ironically, they are both quite complementary (just like the IHA and IHMA),

and I have wondered if many of the tensions between the IHA and IHMA are

not manifestations of the strengths of these two gifted and talented people.

Now nearly two weeks post-symposium, I've been sitting back and mulling a

lot of this over. I'll admit I've made a crack or two about e's UHMS

membership, but seeing and watching in person many of the movers and

shakers in this " movement " , I've come to the conclusion that we all

definitely need to cease the potshots and backbiting.

We are on the verge of making Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy widely accepted and

illegal to deny. We are at a moment in medical history that is without

precedent. The power and stranglehold on this medicine, so long held in

captivity by the UHMS, is about to be broken. Forever.

Now I'm not saying that we shouldn't have (or won't have) any more

differences; we will still have differences. What I am saying is that let's

be civil in voicing, sharing, and settling our differences. This will not

be an easy thing to accomplish and won't occur overnight. This will take

patience, but I think we can get there if we keep our eyes on the prize.

It always helps to meet people in person that we don't always agree with,

and I was overjoyed to finally meet Hartsoe in person. What a guy.

However, , next time you hand me the microphone to publicly ask

Murray Goldstein a question or two--don't tell him who I am before I ask

the question(s).

(Not that he was going to give a candid answer.)

Anyway, let's keep together on this thing. Join the IHA and join the IHMA.

Support both. They are both good groups.

>And tell me when did others who are free-

>standing clinic operators that frequent this list turn in their UHMS

>membership? Don't make this a war inside the war. This is another

>instance of someone making statements based on half-truths and it

>reveals some colors that are not pretty. By the way, I've left many

>messages for you on your machine wanting to talk to you personally

>about these issues. You've become very selective with your time out

>of necessity, but you need to hear the rest of the story.

I've been busy following up on a few things I discovered at the symposium,

which I hope to share with other list members soon.

>Medicaid

>for hbot not apply to my daughter for 1 1/2 yrs. which by the way, is

>enough time for me to prepare my case. Even though she is a mediCal

>recipient, we cannot use it in our hospital. Our military hospital

>is the only one in our area that has a Hyperbaric Chamber. It is not

>open to the public, unless it is a declared disaster. They do not

>take MediCal or Medicaire payments for anything.

>In our case, the IHMA leadership has not done the very things they've

>promised to do, because it is not on their agenda. As far as I'm

>concerned they can claim all they want that they've helped. I only

>know that when they claim they've helped me or my daughter, it is

>just talk, and false. I have not found the penney in the pudding

>yet. Not one has done what they've promised to do. Why? Because it

>is not their agenda. I'm not angry, so much, about that. I

>understand agenda's. What I am angry with, is that they use my

>daughter as a shining example of what they have done. What has been

>done for my daughter is not because of the IHMA leadership or anybody

>that has worked in concert with them in TX, FL or CA. My daughter is

>not better because of anything the UHMS has done. The UHMS

>leadership wants my daughter to stay in the condition she is in. They

>want things to stay the way they are which means more money for them

>individually. My daughter is better than she was because of Mitch

>Hoggard and his staff at Chico Hyperbarics. Dr.'s Lane ,

>Ignacio Fogjel and Gunnar Heuser who have spent time with me talking

>about my daughters individual issues and have led me in her

>treatment. The last group I am indebted to is the very organization

>that has sponsored, backed up with the lions share, the last two

>symposiums in FL. Everybody seems to be willing to take their money,

>but nobody wants to give them credit for being the most influential

>people in the cause. This group is OxyHealth Corp. The Dr's and

>professionals assoc. with the mild chambers have formed the IHA.

>Whomever is part of this org. has my undying gratitude.

>The closest hospital chamber to us is Stanford. They only use their

>chamber for animal studies. My only recourse, which is the same as

>most of us who continue to watch their children over the years get

>older and older waiting for it to happen for them, is to raise funds

>and go to a free-standing clinic. It is that, or purchase my own

>hard chamber for $30,000 so I can service others as well which as

>well does not fit my situation. Or it is to purchase my own mild

>chamber, learn the science involved and do treatments at 1.3 ATA's on

>my own daughter every day which fits me to a t despite the

>fearmongering of people who don't believe we parents are intelligent

>enough to understand it all. We do miracles everyday by using

>medical equipment in our homes in ways the equipment was never meant

>to be used.

Marlena--what an example your story is of what is wrong with the system and

what a bright and resourceful parent will do to get what her child most

needs. I do hope you've kept the documentation of all this.

>Darin,

>This is the reason why many just stop helping the cause. There is

>always someone in the forefront who gets kicked in the pants on a

>daily basis for their efforts. Then there are those who parse their

>words very carefully to continue their subversive efforts. You have

>to meet everyone. You have to sit down with them and get to know

>their hearts. 98% of the people on this list care and are willing to

>move heaven or hell to get HBOT as a first choice medical treatment.

>Many of them also have a monetary interest, which could be construed

>as other than honest, but I don't believe that. I believe that if

>you don't invest your money into something you believe in, it really

>proves you don't believe in it. Money can be used only as legal

>tender or it can be where we put our treasure. I for one have decided

>to put my money where my treasure is...my loved ones. Which is the

>same decision we all have made to one certain extent or another.

>What would happen if we pooled our intelligence, talents and

>resources together, as parents? Can we do that? Would we do it?

>Will we? Shall we?

>

>With Much respect,

>Marlena Orndorff

Amen, Marlena.

Thank you for your insightful wisdom.

```````````````````````````````````````````````````````

Freels

2948 Windfield Circle

Tucker, GA 30084-6714

770/491-6776 (phone and fax)

720/269-5289 (efax, sends fax as email attachment)

mailto:dfreels@...

http://www.freelanceforum.org/df

August 1, 2003

>In a message dated 8/1/2003 2:58:59 PM Central Standard Time, Bry8825@...

>writes:

>

>> The difference(s) between the IHA and IHMA was a frequent source of

>> >controversy, confusion, and tension during the symposium. Some people

>> >joined the IHA believing they were joining the IHMA. There may have been

>> >others who joined the IHMA when they believed they were actually joining

>> >the IHA. At one point IHMA membership applications and literature was found

>> >on the IHA table.

>> >

>

August 1, 2003

>In a message dated 8/1/2003 1:13:07 PM Central Daylight Time,

>dfreels@... writes:

>

>> The difference(s) between the IHA and IHMA was a frequent source of

>> controversy, confusion, and tension during the symposium. Some people

>> joined the IHA believing they were joining the IHMA. There may have been

>> others who joined the IHMA when they believed they were actually joining

>> the IHA. At one point IHMA membership applications and literature was found

>> on the IHA table.

>>

>

> you are totaly wrong. I was at the IHA both most of the symposium.

>Everyone was explained the difference between the two. They asked which

>one to

>join and they were told both. I can't believe anyone would even say that

>there

>was confusion there it was made perfectly clear to all those that joined that

>the IHA and IHMA were different organizations. Moving in the same

>direction in a

>scenes. The membership information that you claimed was found on the IHA

>table Now I don't think that happened but if you remember correctly the

>IHA was

>the only booth serving refreshments and people came in the both making coffee

>and getting refreshments could have left something on the table it was not

>intentional if that happened. But if someone filled out an application

>they was

>explained what they were joining and that the two were not the same. Who are

>these others that you are speaking of that thought they were joining

>instead of

>the other I don't no of one person on the list that thought they were joining

>one organization instead of the other. Now that is totally off base here.

>But IM

>not gripping IM just explaining Hopefully no one takes offense to this email.

>

>,

> This is NOT true. I can't believe that professional people would stoop to

>this. I was in that booth for most of the conference and it was made clear

>that

>there are two organizations....and which one the booth was for. I guess the

>big sign could have been their first clue. This kind of behavior within

>the hbo

>community is the reason HBO for BI isn't taken seriously. Who would take

>anyone seriously when they fight their battles with these type of tactics.

>Show the

>proof or stop the lies.

>ette

>

Okay. Time out. If I could whistle with my fingers, I'd whistle with my

fingers.

If you say that this was not going on, then I believe you; however, I do

know of at least one person who did join the IHA who thought they were

joining the IHMA. I don't know the specific circumstances around that

sign-up, and at this point it really doesn't matter, as they wound up

joining the IHMA too--as we all should.

If you say this didn't happen, I believe you both because I know you both.

Both of these groups are invaluable. Both of them. The IHA has a large,

grass-roots membership base which is critical to pushing this thing

forward; the IHMA has a large amount of credibility with the FDA, CMS, and

the US Congress--credibility which is crucial to reaching universal

acceptance and reimbursement.

I believe it's essential for both groups to work together, side by side. We

do have a common nemesis in the UHMS--whose historic failure necessitated

the creation of BOTH the IHA and the IHMA.

I'm glad to know nothing underhanded was going on. ette, you're right,

we can't be taken seriously if there's infighting going on.

So I apologize for suggesting there was anything going on at the IHA table

and if I hear discussion of this in the future I will set the record

straight based on what you both have said and a private email I received

from e.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that we have some very

talented and gifted people on our side in all this. Yes, there have been

differences in the past, and most likely there will be differences in the

future, but we have to keep ourselves together by what binds us together.

This is not an either/or situation; this is a both situation.

You know, we're a bunch of big people here. We're grown-ups. We are taking

care of loved ones with brain-injury. That's a tough job. It's difficult.

We also have learned through experience that the main road we're advised to

travel doesn't have many answers; in fact, it has no answers.

That's why we're here. Because we've found part of the answer, and we've

seen the results of this extra-oxygen thing first hand. We know it works,

and we're pretty passionate about it. We're very passionate about it, and

if we can crack this nut this will create a floodgate of who knows what for

our brain-injured children because we've got proof that things are not

hopeless for them.

There's something that can be done, and we want to know what else can be done.

All I'm saying is that we don't need to get into a tit-for-tat thing

between the IHA and the IHMA--so let's don't. Let's lay it down and focus

on the broader issue.

Broader issue #1, Darin, we need to get some sort of documentation from

Wisconsin Medicaid so Lynn can take that into her August 12th hearing. Have

you heard anything else from ? I have not.

```````````````````````````````````````````````````````

Freels

2948 Windfield Circle

Tucker, GA 30084-6714

770/491-6776 (phone and fax)

720/269-5289 (efax, sends fax as email attachment)

mailto:dfreels@...

http://www.freelanceforum.org/df

August 1, 2003

In a message dated 8/1/2003 3:30:08 PM Central Daylight Time,

knkeeney@... writes:

> In a message dated 8/1/2003 2:58:59 PM Central Standard Time,

> Bry8825@...

> writes:

>

> >The difference(s) between the IHA and IHMA was a frequent source of

> >>controversy, confusion, and tension during the symposium. Some people

> >>joined the IHA believing they were joining the IHMA. There may have been

> >>others who joined the IHMA when they believed they were actually joining

> >>the IHA. At one point IHMA membership applications and literature was

> found

> >>on the IHA table.

> >>

>

> ,

> This is NOT true. I can't believe that professional people would stoop to

> this. I was in that booth for most of the conference and it was made clear

> that

> there are two organizations....and which one the booth was for. I guess the

> big sign could have been their first clue. This kind of behavior within the

> hbo

> community is the reason HBO for BI isn't taken seriously. Who would take

> anyone seriously when they fight their battles with these type of tactics.

> Show the

> proof or stop the lies.

> ette

>

Let me chime in as someone who spent a lot of time at the IHA booth, no one

was deceived into signing up for the unintended organization. Darin's

explanation as to how literature from IHMA got to the booth (if in fact this is

true)

is very plausible. In addition many IHMA Board Members stopped by the booth

and spent time talking (and I'm being very generous and respectful here) to

e and others with literature in their hands.

While the acronyms may be confusing the signs and representation at the booth

were not.

God Bless, Pat

Mom to , 28 yrs old, 1/98 MVA/Near Drowning

Come meet <A HREF= " www.georgemelendez.org " >www.georgemelendez.org</A>

August 1, 2003

>In a message dated 8/1/2003 4:26:44 PM Central Daylight Time,

>dfreels@... writes:

>

>> Broader issue #1, Darin, we need to get some sort of documentation from

>> Wisconsin Medicaid so Lynn can take that into her August 12th hearing. Have

>> you heard anything else from ? I have not.

>>

>

>Yes, . I have spoken with she is very busy im Meetings. They are

>working on that issue as we speak. My fax still did not go through to you.

>But all is well I want to wait till I get the documentation in had before

>I have

>anyone call the guy from Washington I have ben speaking with. If and when he

>sends this document it will be good for all of us.

Did you use 720/269-5289?

I had to send something twice before it would go through.

What's it doing when you send it?

```````````````````````````````````````````````````````

Freels

2948 Windfield Circle

Tucker, GA 30084-6714

770/491-6776 (phone and fax)

720/269-5289 (efax, sends fax as email attachment)

mailto:dfreels@...

http://www.freelanceforum.org/df

August 1, 2003

In a message dated 8/1/2003 6:52:36 PM Central Daylight Time,

rhartsoe@... writes:

> , I just wanted to clarify a couple of things. First of all, I did

> not

> make the decision to join the IHA until the last day in the afternoon. I

> was very observant of everything that went on. I want to make it clear that

> e never once implied that the IHA was the IHMA nor gave anyone the

> wrong impression. On one occasion, I heard someone ask about the IHMA and

> why there was noone at the IHMA booth. e told them that there should

> be literature at the booth and to try again later. She did not try to

> recruit them into the IHA booth instead. This impressed me.

>

e told them that there should

be literature at the booth and to try again later. She did not try to

recruit them into the IHA booth instead. This impressed me.

As far as that statement there that shows true leadership a organization we

can trust to lead you in the right direction. e is one of the most

encourageing people you can ever meet. She was placed in some ackward cituations

at

the symposium and held her composure. IM glad to be a part of the IHA. I will

devote time inhelping in whatever needs the IHA has. Pat and ette where

both correct they were there with e most of the time they were very

helpfull

to her during the symposium. Both of these lady's are incredible as well. We

have some awesome people joined in the IHA and it will prove to be a

wonderfull organization. Look at the recognition it has gained just since e

has

tooken over. I think we can call that progress headed in the right direction.

once said who can lead us we will see it is looking good so far.

Darin

August 1, 2003

> The difference(s) between the IHA and IHMA was a frequent source of

> controversy, confusion, and tension during the symposium. Some people

> joined the IHA believing they were joining the IHMA. There may have been

> others who joined the IHMA when they believed they were actually joining

> the IHA. At one point IHMA membership applications and literature was

found

> on the IHA table.

, I just wanted to clarify a couple of things. First of all, I did not

make the decision to join the IHA until the last day in the afternoon. I

was very observant of everything that went on. I want to make it clear that

e never once implied that the IHA was the IHMA nor gave anyone the

wrong impression. On one occasion, I heard someone ask about the IHMA and

why there was noone at the IHMA booth. e told them that there should

be literature at the booth and to try again later. She did not try to

recruit them into the IHA booth instead. This impressed me.

As far as membership applications and literature found on the IHA table?

Dr. Harch left them there, probably by accident. I was there early one

morning when Dr. Harch came to the booth to talk to e and had

literature in his hand. When he left, the literature remained on the round

table in the booth. I'm sure he just forgot it. The only reason I noticed

these things is because the IHA booth was at the entrance and it was pretty

common for people to stand in front of the booth to talk, myself included.

I have not heard of a single person joining thinking they were joining the

IHMA. The IHMA was not manned much of the time. The IHA booth was

manned all the time. This probably resulted in a lot of people joining the

IHA. As far as the confusion in the names, The IHA was formed before the

IHMA.

The only reason I am adding to your comments is because I heard some of the

same comments and feel like it should be clarified as I know we both dislike

rumors and misconceptions. Congratulations on being a new board member for

the IHMA. They should have done this long ago. With you and on

board, I feel like I can be more supportive and would encourage everyone to

support both organizations. Let me know if I can ever be of help.

By the way, I handed you the microphone because Murray Goldstein was trying

to escape without answering our questions and I was trying to delay him

until Dr. Harch could get inside. If I would have said anything else, I

would have lost my temper and blew it which I did not want to do so I

pitched it to you. I actually took the microphone away from another lady

and ran up front because I thought Murray was going to " escape " without

answering to some of the, shall we say " mistruths " , that I heard stated?

5 will get you 10 that he will not show up at the next one if he knows you

and I will be there. :-)

Hartsoe

> e Creacy has done an awful lot to bring public awareness to

Hyperbaric

> Oxygen Therapy. She has accomplished this in ways that no one else can do.

> She has tremendous gifts and tremendous talents for getting in to see the

> right people at the right time. She is to be commended, and I am often in

> awe of her. She can orchestrate things that the rest of us can't even

> imagine. She's incredible.

>

> There's another talented and gifted individual who has carried the brunt

of

> the first two years of the IHMA's existence, often at great personal

> expense and sacrifice. His name is Ken Locklear, and he too has been a

> tremendous player in the achievements of the last two years. Ken too, is a

> strong personality, and sometimes I have suspected there has been

> occasional tension between Ken and e.

>

> Ironically, they are both quite complementary (just like the IHA and

IHMA),

> and I have wondered if many of the tensions between the IHA and IHMA are

> not manifestations of the strengths of these two gifted and talented

people.

>

> Now nearly two weeks post-symposium, I've been sitting back and mulling a

> lot of this over. I'll admit I've made a crack or two about e's UHMS

> membership, but seeing and watching in person many of the movers and

> shakers in this " movement " , I've come to the conclusion that we all

> definitely need to cease the potshots and backbiting.

>

> We are on the verge of making Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy widely accepted

and

> illegal to deny. We are at a moment in medical history that is without

> precedent. The power and stranglehold on this medicine, so long held in

> captivity by the UHMS, is about to be broken. Forever.

>

> Now I'm not saying that we shouldn't have (or won't have) any more

> differences; we will still have differences. What I am saying is that

let's

> be civil in voicing, sharing, and settling our differences. This will not

> be an easy thing to accomplish and won't occur overnight. This will take

> patience, but I think we can get there if we keep our eyes on the prize.

>

> It always helps to meet people in person that we don't always agree with,

> and I was overjoyed to finally meet Hartsoe in person. What a guy.

> However, , next time you hand me the microphone to publicly ask

> Murray Goldstein a question or two--don't tell him who I am before I ask

> the question(s).

>

> (Not that he was going to give a candid answer.)

>

> Anyway, let's keep together on this thing. Join the IHA and join the IHMA.

> Support both. They are both good groups.

>

> >And tell me when did others who are free-

> >standing clinic operators that frequent this list turn in their UHMS

> >membership? Don't make this a war inside the war. This is another

> >instance of someone making statements based on half-truths and it

> >reveals some colors that are not pretty. By the way, I've left many

> >messages for you on your machine wanting to talk to you personally

> >about these issues. You've become very selective with your time out

> >of necessity, but you need to hear the rest of the story.

>

> I've been busy following up on a few things I discovered at the symposium,

> which I hope to share with other list members soon.

>

> >Medicaid

> >for hbot not apply to my daughter for 1 1/2 yrs. which by the way, is

> >enough time for me to prepare my case. Even though she is a mediCal

> >recipient, we cannot use it in our hospital. Our military hospital

> >is the only one in our area that has a Hyperbaric Chamber. It is not

> >open to the public, unless it is a declared disaster. They do not

> >take MediCal or Medicaire payments for anything.

> >In our case, the IHMA leadership has not done the very things they've

> >promised to do, because it is not on their agenda. As far as I'm

> >concerned they can claim all they want that they've helped. I only

> >know that when they claim they've helped me or my daughter, it is

> >just talk, and false. I have not found the penney in the pudding

> >yet. Not one has done what they've promised to do. Why? Because it

> >is not their agenda. I'm not angry, so much, about that. I

> >understand agenda's. What I am angry with, is that they use my

> >daughter as a shining example of what they have done. What has been

> >done for my daughter is not because of the IHMA leadership or anybody

> >that has worked in concert with them in TX, FL or CA. My daughter is

> >not better because of anything the UHMS has done. The UHMS

> >leadership wants my daughter to stay in the condition she is in. They

> >want things to stay the way they are which means more money for them

> >individually. My daughter is better than she was because of Mitch

> >Hoggard and his staff at Chico Hyperbarics. Dr.'s Lane ,

> >Ignacio Fogjel and Gunnar Heuser who have spent time with me talking

> >about my daughters individual issues and have led me in her

> >treatment. The last group I am indebted to is the very organization

> >that has sponsored, backed up with the lions share, the last two

> >symposiums in FL. Everybody seems to be willing to take their money,

> >but nobody wants to give them credit for being the most influential

> >people in the cause. This group is OxyHealth Corp. The Dr's and

> >professionals assoc. with the mild chambers have formed the IHA.

> >Whomever is part of this org. has my undying gratitude.

> >The closest hospital chamber to us is Stanford. They only use their

> >chamber for animal studies. My only recourse, which is the same as

> >most of us who continue to watch their children over the years get

> >older and older waiting for it to happen for them, is to raise funds

> >and go to a free-standing clinic. It is that, or purchase my own

> >hard chamber for $30,000 so I can service others as well which as

> >well does not fit my situation. Or it is to purchase my own mild

> >chamber, learn the science involved and do treatments at 1.3 ATA's on

> >my own daughter every day which fits me to a t despite the

> >fearmongering of people who don't believe we parents are intelligent

> >enough to understand it all. We do miracles everyday by using

> >medical equipment in our homes in ways the equipment was never meant

> >to be used.

>

> Marlena--what an example your story is of what is wrong with the system

and

> what a bright and resourceful parent will do to get what her child most

> needs. I do hope you've kept the documentation of all this.

>

> >Darin,

> >This is the reason why many just stop helping the cause. There is

> >always someone in the forefront who gets kicked in the pants on a

> >daily basis for their efforts. Then there are those who parse their

> >words very carefully to continue their subversive efforts. You have

> >to meet everyone. You have to sit down with them and get to know

> >their hearts. 98% of the people on this list care and are willing to

> >move heaven or hell to get HBOT as a first choice medical treatment.

> >Many of them also have a monetary interest, which could be construed

> >as other than honest, but I don't believe that. I believe that if

> >you don't invest your money into something you believe in, it really

> >proves you don't believe in it. Money can be used only as legal

> >tender or it can be where we put our treasure. I for one have decided

> >to put my money where my treasure is...my loved ones. Which is the

> >same decision we all have made to one certain extent or another.

> >What would happen if we pooled our intelligence, talents and

> >resources together, as parents? Can we do that? Would we do it?

> >Will we? Shall we?

> >

> >With Much respect,

> >Marlena Orndorff

>

> Amen, Marlena.

>

> Thank you for your insightful wisdom.

>

> ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````

>

> Freels

> 2948 Windfield Circle

> Tucker, GA 30084-6714

> 770/491-6776 (phone and fax)

> 720/269-5289 (efax, sends fax as email attachment)

> mailto:dfreels@...

>

> http://www.freelanceforum.org/df

>

> _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._.

> Join the International Hyperbaric Medical Association

http://www.hyperbaricmedicalassociation.org/forms/Friends_of_IHMA_Join.pdf

>

> Unrestricted downloads of 50+ pdf files on HBOT efficacy

medicaid/files/ ,

HDO-documentation/files/ and

http://www.drneubauerhbo.com/papers.htm

>

> Download your state EPSDT program

http://www.hcfa.gov/medicaid/stateplan/Map.asp by doing a search on the word

" ameliorate " . State Medicaid websites

http://www.medi-cal.ca.gov/RelSites_Oth_States.asp . Medicaid waiver

programs: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Villa/1029/medicaid.html

>

> Find a hyperbaric clinic http://www.netnet.net/mums/hbolist.htm

>

> HBOT can save billions of dollars and millions of heartaches. Subscribe to

by sending a blank email to

mailto:medicaid-subscribe

>

> Unsubscribe? Click here mailto:medicaid-unsubscribe

..

>

August 1, 2003

I should have said Dr. Harch left IHMA literature on the table, I don't know

about applications. Sorry about that. The reason I know is because I got a

cup of coffee at the booth and set down at the table and saw it laying

there. I was setting in the same chair as Dr. Harch. I hope this

clears it up.

Re: [MedicaidforHDOT] Regarding Medicaid and HBOT

> > The difference(s) between the IHA and IHMA was a frequent source of

> > controversy, confusion, and tension during the symposium. Some people

> > joined the IHA believing they were joining the IHMA. There may have been

> > others who joined the IHMA when they believed they were actually joining

> > the IHA. At one point IHMA membership applications and literature was

> found

> > on the IHA table.

>

> , I just wanted to clarify a couple of things. First of all, I did

not

> make the decision to join the IHA until the last day in the afternoon. I

> was very observant of everything that went on. I want to make it clear

that

> e never once implied that the IHA was the IHMA nor gave anyone the

> wrong impression. On one occasion, I heard someone ask about the IHMA

and

> why there was noone at the IHMA booth. e told them that there should

> be literature at the booth and to try again later. She did not try to

> recruit them into the IHA booth instead. This impressed me.

>

> As far as membership applications and literature found on the IHA table?

> Dr. Harch left them there, probably by accident. I was there early one

> morning when Dr. Harch came to the booth to talk to e and had

> literature in his hand. When he left, the literature remained on the

round

> table in the booth. I'm sure he just forgot it. The only reason I

noticed

> these things is because the IHA booth was at the entrance and it was

pretty

> common for people to stand in front of the booth to talk, myself included.

>

> I have not heard of a single person joining thinking they were joining the

> IHMA. The IHMA was not manned much of the time. The IHA booth was

> manned all the time. This probably resulted in a lot of people joining

the

> IHA. As far as the confusion in the names, The IHA was formed before the

> IHMA.

>

> The only reason I am adding to your comments is because I heard some of

the

> same comments and feel like it should be clarified as I know we both

dislike

> rumors and misconceptions. Congratulations on being a new board member

for

> the IHMA. They should have done this long ago. With you and on

> board, I feel like I can be more supportive and would encourage everyone

to

> support both organizations. Let me know if I can ever be of help.

>

> By the way, I handed you the microphone because Murray Goldstein was

trying

> to escape without answering our questions and I was trying to delay him

> until Dr. Harch could get inside. If I would have said anything else, I

> would have lost my temper and blew it which I did not want to do so I

> pitched it to you. I actually took the microphone away from another lady

> and ran up front because I thought Murray was going to " escape " without

> answering to some of the, shall we say " mistruths " , that I heard stated?

> 5 will get you 10 that he will not show up at the next one if he knows you

> and I will be there. :-)

>

> Hartsoe

>

> > e Creacy has done an awful lot to bring public awareness to

> Hyperbaric

> > Oxygen Therapy. She has accomplished this in ways that no one else can

do.

> > She has tremendous gifts and tremendous talents for getting in to see

the

> > right people at the right time. She is to be commended, and I am often

in

> > awe of her. She can orchestrate things that the rest of us can't even

> > imagine. She's incredible.

> >

> > There's another talented and gifted individual who has carried the brunt

> of

> > the first two years of the IHMA's existence, often at great personal

> > expense and sacrifice. His name is Ken Locklear, and he too has been a

> > tremendous player in the achievements of the last two years. Ken too, is

a

> > strong personality, and sometimes I have suspected there has been

> > occasional tension between Ken and e.

> >

> > Ironically, they are both quite complementary (just like the IHA and

> IHMA),

> > and I have wondered if many of the tensions between the IHA and IHMA are

> > not manifestations of the strengths of these two gifted and talented

> people.

> >

> > Now nearly two weeks post-symposium, I've been sitting back and mulling

a

> > lot of this over. I'll admit I've made a crack or two about e's

UHMS

> > membership, but seeing and watching in person many of the movers and

> > shakers in this " movement " , I've come to the conclusion that we all

> > definitely need to cease the potshots and backbiting.

> >

> > We are on the verge of making Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy widely accepted

> and

> > illegal to deny. We are at a moment in medical history that is without

> > precedent. The power and stranglehold on this medicine, so long held in

> > captivity by the UHMS, is about to be broken. Forever.

> >

> > Now I'm not saying that we shouldn't have (or won't have) any more

> > differences; we will still have differences. What I am saying is that

> let's

> > be civil in voicing, sharing, and settling our differences. This will

not

> > be an easy thing to accomplish and won't occur overnight. This will take

> > patience, but I think we can get there if we keep our eyes on the prize.

> >

> > It always helps to meet people in person that we don't always agree

with,

> > and I was overjoyed to finally meet Hartsoe in person. What a

guy.

> > However, , next time you hand me the microphone to publicly ask

> > Murray Goldstein a question or two--don't tell him who I am before I ask

> > the question(s).

> >

> > (Not that he was going to give a candid answer.)

> >

> > Anyway, let's keep together on this thing. Join the IHA and join the

IHMA.

> > Support both. They are both good groups.

> >

> > >And tell me when did others who are free-

> > >standing clinic operators that frequent this list turn in their UHMS

> > >membership? Don't make this a war inside the war. This is another

> > >instance of someone making statements based on half-truths and it

> > >reveals some colors that are not pretty. By the way, I've left many

> > >messages for you on your machine wanting to talk to you personally

> > >about these issues. You've become very selective with your time out

> > >of necessity, but you need to hear the rest of the story.

> >

> > I've been busy following up on a few things I discovered at the

symposium,

> > which I hope to share with other list members soon.

> >

> > >Medicaid

> > >for hbot not apply to my daughter for 1 1/2 yrs. which by the way, is

> > >enough time for me to prepare my case. Even though she is a mediCal

> > >recipient, we cannot use it in our hospital. Our military hospital

> > >is the only one in our area that has a Hyperbaric Chamber. It is not

> > >open to the public, unless it is a declared disaster. They do not

> > >take MediCal or Medicaire payments for anything.

> > >In our case, the IHMA leadership has not done the very things they've

> > >promised to do, because it is not on their agenda. As far as I'm

> > >concerned they can claim all they want that they've helped. I only

> > >know that when they claim they've helped me or my daughter, it is

> > >just talk, and false. I have not found the penney in the pudding

> > >yet. Not one has done what they've promised to do. Why? Because it

> > >is not their agenda. I'm not angry, so much, about that. I

> > >understand agenda's. What I am angry with, is that they use my

> > >daughter as a shining example of what they have done. What has been

> > >done for my daughter is not because of the IHMA leadership or anybody

> > >that has worked in concert with them in TX, FL or CA. My daughter is

> > >not better because of anything the UHMS has done. The UHMS

> > >leadership wants my daughter to stay in the condition she is in. They

> > >want things to stay the way they are which means more money for them

> > >individually. My daughter is better than she was because of Mitch

> > >Hoggard and his staff at Chico Hyperbarics. Dr.'s Lane ,

> > >Ignacio Fogjel and Gunnar Heuser who have spent time with me talking

> > >about my daughters individual issues and have led me in her

> > >treatment. The last group I am indebted to is the very organization

> > >that has sponsored, backed up with the lions share, the last two

> > >symposiums in FL. Everybody seems to be willing to take their money,

> > >but nobody wants to give them credit for being the most influential

> > >people in the cause. This group is OxyHealth Corp. The Dr's and

> > >professionals assoc. with the mild chambers have formed the IHA.

> > >Whomever is part of this org. has my undying gratitude.

> > >The closest hospital chamber to us is Stanford. They only use their

> > >chamber for animal studies. My only recourse, which is the same as

> > >most of us who continue to watch their children over the years get

> > >older and older waiting for it to happen for them, is to raise funds

> > >and go to a free-standing clinic. It is that, or purchase my own

> > >hard chamber for $30,000 so I can service others as well which as

> > >well does not fit my situation. Or it is to purchase my own mild

> > >chamber, learn the science involved and do treatments at 1.3 ATA's on

> > >my own daughter every day which fits me to a t despite the

> > >fearmongering of people who don't believe we parents are intelligent

> > >enough to understand it all. We do miracles everyday by using

> > >medical equipment in our homes in ways the equipment was never meant

> > >to be used.

> >

> > Marlena--what an example your story is of what is wrong with the system

> and

> > what a bright and resourceful parent will do to get what her child most

> > needs. I do hope you've kept the documentation of all this.

> >

> > >Darin,

> > >This is the reason why many just stop helping the cause. There is

> > >always someone in the forefront who gets kicked in the pants on a

> > >daily basis for their efforts. Then there are those who parse their

> > >words very carefully to continue their subversive efforts. You have

> > >to meet everyone. You have to sit down with them and get to know

> > >their hearts. 98% of the people on this list care and are willing to

> > >move heaven or hell to get HBOT as a first choice medical treatment.

> > >Many of them also have a monetary interest, which could be construed

> > >as other than honest, but I don't believe that. I believe that if

> > >you don't invest your money into something you believe in, it really

> > >proves you don't believe in it. Money can be used only as legal

> > >tender or it can be where we put our treasure. I for one have decided

> > >to put my money where my treasure is...my loved ones. Which is the

> > >same decision we all have made to one certain extent or another.

> > >What would happen if we pooled our intelligence, talents and

> > >resources together, as parents? Can we do that? Would we do it?

> > >Will we? Shall we?

> > >

> > >With Much respect,

> > >Marlena Orndorff

> >

> > Amen, Marlena.

> >

> > Thank you for your insightful wisdom.

> >

> > ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````

> >

> > Freels

> > 2948 Windfield Circle

> > Tucker, GA 30084-6714

> > 770/491-6776 (phone and fax)

> > 720/269-5289 (efax, sends fax as email attachment)

> > mailto:dfreels@...

> >

> > http://www.freelanceforum.org/df

> >

_._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._.

> > Join the International Hyperbaric Medical Association

> http://www.hyperbaricmedicalassociation.org/forms/Friends_of_IHMA_Join.pdf

> >

> > Unrestricted downloads of 50+ pdf files on HBOT efficacy

> medicaid/files/ ,

> HDO-documentation/files/ and

> http://www.drneubauerhbo.com/papers.htm

> >

> > Download your state EPSDT program

> http://www.hcfa.gov/medicaid/stateplan/Map.asp by doing a search on the

word

> " ameliorate " . State Medicaid websites

> http://www.medi-cal.ca.gov/RelSites_Oth_States.asp . Medicaid waiver

> programs: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Villa/1029/medicaid.html

> >

> > Find a hyperbaric clinic http://www.netnet.net/mums/hbolist.htm

> >

> > HBOT can save billions of dollars and millions of heartaches. Subscribe

to

> by sending a blank email to

> mailto:medicaid-subscribe

> >

> > Unsubscribe? Click here

mailto:medicaid-unsubscribe

> .

> >

August 1, 2003

Guys, I spoke with and she explained to me that her victory

was based on Medicaid's non-compliance. They did not provide the

necessary notification of rejection and were forced to pay for HBOT

for her child because of it. That is hardly a ringing endorsement

for HBOT - it is a victory won on a technicality. I know, I know, it

is still a victory but I don't know that it will help me with my

insurance company. I say this for two reasons: 1) Winning on a

technicality will only allow my insurance company the opportunity to

say that it doesn't prove HBOT works, only that Medicaid screwed up

and 2) if my insurance company thinks that Medicaid may be forced to

pay down the line, I believe that will make my insurance company less

likely to pay now - they can just sit back and wait until Medicaid

gets forced to pay and it is no skin off their nose and, more

importantly, no money out of their pocket. They have taken this

stance with therapy for my son - they know we have an excellent Birth

to 3 program funded by the state that will cover my son's therapeutic

needs and, therefore, they can get away without reimbursing Birth to

3 for any of the therapeutic services they provide my son.

Lynn you are correct. I can't argue with you there. That is what i have said

in the past. Me and david talked about this. That is why Medicaid waited to

process the claim so they could say they paid out of non compliance. That has

been my whole issue. Medicaid has not willingly paid in any case they have been

forced to all along. But I still think you got a good chance. At least it does

finally show that Medicaid did pay out of Medicaid funding for HBOT. Now do

we all see here while back what I was talking about when I said a state may pay

but it wont pay again cause it was forced to. There has been no precidence

set yet. In some states you may think so but dig deeper int o what got them to

pay and how they did it. Plus what Lynn just said they were forced to. Not

willingly forced big difference.

Darin

August 1, 2003

> Broader issue #1, Darin, we need to get some sort of documentation

from Wisconsin Medicaid so Lynn can take that into her August 12th

hearing. Have you heard anything else from ? I have not. <