Re: Things could be worse

[Guest guest]

Oh , I am certainly sorry to hear of your Sister in Law's illness. How

tragic for such a young woman to be so ill. I wonder if she has been tested for

Celiac...there is just so much that goes on with our bodies that is actually

related to CD....and you are so right...when we truly are much better of than

many people! Thank you for reminding us that as sick as we are, we still can

walk, talk, and for many of us...work!

Debby

[ ] Things could be worse

As bad as we all feel with our illnesses, we still have it better than others.

I say this after visiting with my sister-in-law today. I don't get to see her

often because she's in a

nursing home that is hours away. But my husband's other sister got to check

her out for a 3 or 4 day visit. So my husband & I went to see her while she was

closer and had lunch a tried to catch up a a little.

She is 50 and has already spent 5-6 yrs. in a nursing home. She cannot walk or

hear

and has gained alot of weight from inactivity (resulting in diabetes), and has

to be fed. There's so little known about her illness, we don't know how this

will progress. My

guess is that someday she'll get aspiration pneumonia. This woman was the best

mother, her house was immaculate, and had the best sense of humor. It just

breaks

my heart.

So today I feel fortunate to be as healthy as I am (even though I am fatigued

and

don't find Sjogren's to make for a fun day).

[Guest guest]

So sorry about your sister in law. I am sure it breaks your heart.

And yes I do say alot " Why me? " about the AIH but at least we have

a " controllable " disease. I am just hoping that one day there will

be a CURE for Autoimmune Hepatitis, PBC etc

What is all of your input on that? Do any of you think there will be

a cure for this someday?

>

> Oh , I am certainly sorry to hear of your Sister in Law's

illness. How tragic for such a young woman to be so ill. I wonder

if she has been tested for Celiac...there is just so much that goes

on with our bodies that is actually related to CD....and you are so

right...when we truly are much better of than many people! Thank

you for reminding us that as sick as we are, we still can walk,

talk, and for many of us...work!

> Debby

> [ ] Things could be worse

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> As bad as we all feel with our illnesses, we still have it

better than others. I say this after visiting with my sister-in-law

today. I don't get to see her often because she's in a

> nursing home that is hours away. But my husband's other sister

got to check her out for a 3 or 4 day visit. So my husband & I went

to see her while she was closer and had lunch a tried to catch up a

a little.

> She is 50 and has already spent 5-6 yrs. in a nursing home. She

cannot walk or hear

> and has gained alot of weight from inactivity (resulting in

diabetes), and has to be fed. There's so little known about her

illness, we don't know how this will progress. My

> guess is that someday she'll get aspiration pneumonia. This

woman was the best mother, her house was immaculate, and had the

best sense of humor. It just breaks

> my heart.

> So today I feel fortunate to be as healthy as I am (even though

I am fatigued and

> don't find Sjogren's to make for a fun day).

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That's gotta be the ugliest damn picture I've ever seen.

Things could be worse

I guess if you really tried you could see that ya'll don't have it so bad. I mean really, what's a little incidential exposure that will ruin your lives? What's wrong with being called to the alter of urine purity every whipstitch? (Isn't that a great saying, read it somewhere on drug war rant) Ya'll could have IT REALLY BAD like this poor guy.http://news./s/nm/20061018/od_nm/picasso1_dc

[Guest guest]

Arrgghhh!!

I'm *still* seething over what happened last night! During my " nurse

support group " a woman mentioned she'd just had to submit a urine EtG

today, and I blurted out " What? Don't tell me IPN is using that

blasted test! " I explained exactly why I thought that this was a

serious misjudgment on IPN's part, quoting the SAMHSA advisory. My

involvement in this group came out.

I was roundly chastised for being bitter, and not " sharing " my

feelings with the nurse's group. Several people said my resentment

against the test was a sign that I was " neglecting my spiritual

development " and that I needed to explore " what my part in it was " .

My part was that I peed in a cup and due to a majorly faulty test my

life turned to garbage. I lost my job, I lost my license, I wound up

in a Psych hospital and I'm over $100,000 in debt. I still remember

the night I told the group about the positive test and was repeatedly

told that I was " in denial " about my supposed relapse. Not one of

them expressed the sentiment that the whole experience must have

hellish; they just verbally attacked me, saying I needed to work more

on my program.

Excuse me, but they just guaranteed that I'm not going to be sharing a

heck of a lot with them in the future either.

Wheew. NOW I feel better.

>

> I guess if you really tried you could see that ya'll don't have it so

> bad. I mean really, what's a little incidential exposure that will

> ruin your lives? What's wrong with being called to the alter of urine

> purity every whipstitch?

>

[Guest guest]

Judy, Your always the one in denial until it happens to them.

> >

> > I guess if you really tried you could see that ya'll don't have

it so

> > bad. I mean really, what's a little incidential exposure that

will

> > ruin your lives? What's wrong with being called to the alter of

urine

> > purity every whipstitch?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

---This is what I'm always yellin about. This is the reason people

who had or have addictions are belittled, shunned, discriminated

against and screwed with faulty lab tests. Drug and alcohol

treatment are not meant to make you quit and become health, it is

meant to indoctrinate you, re-educate you to become sheep among

society because you are sinners. Period.

I think most people here are medical professionals right? How many

of you experienced in rehab that you are all alike? So those of you

who took too much pain medication, drank too much were compared with

the gang member who has shot people, committed armed robbery, beat

people up while smoking crack for 20 years?

I know, I know, some of you lifted the dope from work. But I don't

equate shop lifting with armed robbery, do you?

They try to guilt you. They treat to the lowest common denominator

and attempt to bring you down to the level of the lowest of low.

This is to make you more amendable to coercion. Think about it.

In Ethylglucuronide , " Judy " <floridajudy@...> wrote:

>

> Arrgghhh!!

>

> I'm *still* seething over what happened last night! During

my " nurse

> support group " a woman mentioned she'd just had to submit a urine

EtG

> today, and I blurted out " What? Don't tell me IPN is using that

> blasted test! " I explained exactly why I thought that this was a

> serious misjudgment on IPN's part, quoting the SAMHSA advisory. My

> involvement in this group came out.

>

> I was roundly chastised for being bitter, and not " sharing " my

> feelings with the nurse's group. Several people said my resentment

> against the test was a sign that I was " neglecting my spiritual

> development " and that I needed to explore " what my part in it

was " .

> My part was that I peed in a cup and due to a majorly faulty test

my

> life turned to garbage. I lost my job, I lost my license, I wound

up

> in a Psych hospital and I'm over $100,000 in debt. I still

remember

> the night I told the group about the positive test and was

repeatedly

> told that I was " in denial " about my supposed relapse. Not one of

> them expressed the sentiment that the whole experience must have

> hellish; they just verbally attacked me, saying I needed to work

more

> on my program.

>

> Excuse me, but they just guaranteed that I'm not going to be

sharing a

> heck of a lot with them in the future either.

>

> Wheew. NOW I feel better.

>

>

>

> >

> > I guess if you really tried you could see that ya'll don't have

it so

> > bad. I mean really, what's a little incidential exposure that

will

> > ruin your lives? What's wrong with being called to the alter of

urine

> > purity every whipstitch?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hey I think that sounds like " white collar crime "

> > >

> > > I guess if you really tried you could see that ya'll don't have

> it so

> > > bad. I mean really, what's a little incidential exposure that

> will

> > > ruin your lives? What's wrong with being called to the alter of

> urine

> > > purity every whipstitch?

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Ditto Judy

I was at my nursing support group yesterday, and when

I share my story on etg, you can tell they don't

believe me. I can remember when I first started this

group another nurse that was new in diversion was

asked to go to sober living after positive etg, she

refused stated I didn't relapse and quit the program.

After she left some of the group including the leaders

stated that she couldn't surrender to her problem she

needed to admit to her relapse and do what ever

maximus asked of her. I know my group thinks that way

of me. I don't even want to share about it in my

group. My leaders are in charge of a rehab in san

diego. She told me yesterday I should do what ever

they ask of me, I should go to another inpatient

rehab, drop out of school and go bankrupt if that what

it takes to complete my program. I told her I would

refuse and try to go the probation route, or change

careers. She told me you will be prosecuted, you might

not get probation, and pretty much, my life would be

ruined.

I couldn't wait to come home and read your replies,

because I know there are other ways of living life. I

will not die if I do not complete diversion. Your

stories are proof that it is possible.

--- Judy <floridajudy@...> wrote:

> Arrgghhh!!

>

> I'm *still* seething over what happened last night!

> During my " nurse

> support group " a woman mentioned she'd just had to

> submit a urine EtG

> today, and I blurted out " What? Don't tell me IPN

> is using that

> blasted test! " I explained exactly why I thought

> that this was a

> serious misjudgment on IPN's part, quoting the

> SAMHSA advisory. My

> involvement in this group came out.

>

> I was roundly chastised for being bitter, and not

> " sharing " my

> feelings with the nurse's group. Several people

> said my resentment

> against the test was a sign that I was " neglecting

> my spiritual

> development " and that I needed to explore " what my

> part in it was " .

> My part was that I peed in a cup and due to a

> majorly faulty test my

> life turned to garbage. I lost my job, I lost my

> license, I wound up

> in a Psych hospital and I'm over $100,000 in debt.

> I still remember

> the night I told the group about the positive test

> and was repeatedly

> told that I was " in denial " about my supposed

> relapse. Not one of

> them expressed the sentiment that the whole

> experience must have

> hellish; they just verbally attacked me, saying I

> needed to work more

> on my program.

>

> Excuse me, but they just guaranteed that I'm not

> going to be sharing a

> heck of a lot with them in the future either.

>

> Wheew. NOW I feel better.

>

>

>

> >

> > I guess if you really tried you could see that

> ya'll don't have it so

> > bad. I mean really, what's a little incidential

> exposure that will

> > ruin your lives? What's wrong with being called

> to the alter of urine

> > purity every whipstitch?

> >

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

--- When ya'll talk about these nurse support groups are they led by

nurses or fake medical people from the addiction treatment industry?

I can't believe a real nurse would believe the BS. Maybe I'm wrong.

In Ethylglucuronide , Hartman

<jhartman32001@...> wrote:

>

> Ditto Judy

> I was at my nursing support group yesterday, and when

> I share my story on etg, you can tell they don't

> believe me. I can remember when I first started this

> group another nurse that was new in diversion was

> asked to go to sober living after positive etg, she

> refused stated I didn't relapse and quit the program.

> After she left some of the group including the leaders

> stated that she couldn't surrender to her problem she

> needed to admit to her relapse and do what ever

> maximus asked of her. I know my group thinks that way

> of me. I don't even want to share about it in my

> group. My leaders are in charge of a rehab in san

> diego. She told me yesterday I should do what ever

> they ask of me, I should go to another inpatient

> rehab, drop out of school and go bankrupt if that what

> it takes to complete my program. I told her I would

> refuse and try to go the probation route, or change

> careers. She told me you will be prosecuted, you might

> not get probation, and pretty much, my life would be

> ruined.

> I couldn't wait to come home and read your replies,

> because I know there are other ways of living life. I

> will not die if I do not complete diversion. Your

> stories are proof that it is possible.

> --- Judy <floridajudy@...> wrote:

>

> > Arrgghhh!!

> >

> > I'm *still* seething over what happened last night!

> > During my " nurse

> > support group " a woman mentioned she'd just had to

> > submit a urine EtG

> > today, and I blurted out " What? Don't tell me IPN

> > is using that

> > blasted test! " I explained exactly why I thought

> > that this was a

> > serious misjudgment on IPN's part, quoting the

> > SAMHSA advisory. My

> > involvement in this group came out.

> >

> > I was roundly chastised for being bitter, and not

> > " sharing " my

> > feelings with the nurse's group. Several people

> > said my resentment

> > against the test was a sign that I was " neglecting

> > my spiritual

> > development " and that I needed to explore " what my

> > part in it was " .

> > My part was that I peed in a cup and due to a

> > majorly faulty test my

> > life turned to garbage. I lost my job, I lost my

> > license, I wound up

> > in a Psych hospital and I'm over $100,000 in debt.

> > I still remember

> > the night I told the group about the positive test

> > and was repeatedly

> > told that I was " in denial " about my supposed

> > relapse. Not one of

> > them expressed the sentiment that the whole

> > experience must have

> > hellish; they just verbally attacked me, saying I

> > needed to work more

> > on my program.

> >

> > Excuse me, but they just guaranteed that I'm not

> > going to be sharing a

> > heck of a lot with them in the future either.

> >

> > Wheew. NOW I feel better.

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > I guess if you really tried you could see that

> > ya'll don't have it so

> > > bad. I mean really, what's a little incidential

> > exposure that will

> > > ruin your lives? What's wrong with being called

> > to the alter of urine

> > > purity every whipstitch?

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

This SO infuriates me. Please continue to stand your ground, . Do

not go to rehab. These people have gotten everything so convoluted and

jacked up. They are using the AA/NA concept of " going to any length " to

stay sober and applying it to Diversion. Diversion is NOT recovery. OF

COURSE you don't want to go to any length to stay in their f***ed up

program. They are trying to scare you away from Probation. Be your own

person. Live your truth. Stay strong.

> > >

> > > I guess if you really tried you could see that

> > ya'll don't have it so

> > > bad. I mean really, what's a little incidential

> > exposure that will

> > > ruin your lives? What's wrong with being called

> > to the alter of urine

> > > purity every whipstitch?

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

I can't believe what this test is doing to people's lives!!!!! Luckily, I have support in my Nurse Support Group as 4 of them have had a couple of + EtG's while not drinking. Maximus changed their sobriety dates on a couple of them and the others just never heard anything back at all. Who knows? Mighty Maximus is so determined to make people feel like the scum of the earth that they don't care. How do these people sleep at night?Lorie <lorieg@...> wrote: This SO infuriates me. Please

continue to stand your ground, . Donot go to rehab. These people have gotten everything so convoluted andjacked up. They are using the AA/NA concept of "going to any length" tostay sober and applying it to Diversion. Diversion is NOT recovery. OFCOURSE you don't want to go to any length to stay in their f***ed upprogram. They are trying to scare you away from Probation. Be your ownperson. Live your truth. Stay strong.> > >> > > I guess if you really tried you could see that> > ya'll don't have it so> > > bad. I mean really, what's a little incidential> > exposure that will> > > ruin your lives? What's wrong with being called> > to the alter of urine> > > purity every whipstitch?> > >> >> >> >> >>>> __________________________________________________>

[Guest guest]

The thing that truly baffles me is that the diversion programs don't

seem to realize the harm they're doing to their *own* programs by

continuing to insist on using the EtG. Until September 30, they could

have argued " Gee, we didn't know there was a problem..we just acted on

good faith " . Since then, they are going to have to defend why they

continued to depend on a test that has not only been shown to be less

than reliable in determining their case management, has in fact been

described as *promoting* relapse when used irresponsibly.

I still believe in recovery, but have lost all faith in the monitoring

process. It's a crap shoot that depends more on luck than on

compliance. I never expected them to announce they were abandoning

the test - that would be too much like taking responsibility,

something that only we addicts/alcoholics are expected to do. But I

did expect them to quietly abandon it.

Sigh. That would just make too much sense.

>

> Ditto Judy

> I was at my nursing support group yesterday, and when

> I share my story on etg, you can tell they don't

> believe me. I can remember when I first started this

> group another nurse that was new in diversion was

> asked to go to sober living after positive etg, she

> refused stated I didn't relapse and quit the program.

[Guest guest]

it is directed by diversion or maximus, so technically they are working for the brn. My group is led by 2 rn in charge of a local rehab juliemadisonxyz2000 <madisonxyz2000@...> wrote: --- When ya'll talk about these nurse support groups are they led by nurses or fake medical people from the addiction treatment industry?I can't believe a real nurse would believe the BS. Maybe I'm wrong.In Ethylglucuronide , Hartman <jhartman32001@...> wrote:>> Ditto Judy> I was at my nursing support group yesterday, and when> I share my story on etg, you can tell they don't> believe me. I can remember when I first started this> group another nurse that was new in diversion was> asked to go to sober living after positive etg, she> refused stated I didn't relapse and quit the program. > After she left some of the group including the leaders> stated that she couldn't surrender to her problem she> needed to admit to her relapse and do what ever> maximus asked of her. I know my group thinks that way> of me. I don't even want to share about it in my> group. My leaders are in charge of a rehab in san> diego. She told me yesterday I should do what ever> they ask of me, I

should go to another inpatient> rehab, drop out of school and go bankrupt if that what> it takes to complete my program. I told her I would> refuse and try to go the probation route, or change> careers. She told me you will be prosecuted, you might> not get probation, and pretty much, my life would be> ruined.> I couldn't wait to come home and read your replies,> because I know there are other ways of living life. I> will not die if I do not complete diversion. Your> stories are proof that it is possible.> --- Judy <floridajudy@...> wrote:> > > Arrgghhh!!> > > > I'm *still* seething over what happened last night!> > During my "nurse> > support group" a woman mentioned she'd just had to> > submit a urine EtG> > today, and I blurted out "What? Don't tell me IPN> > is using that> > blasted

test!" I explained exactly why I thought> > that this was a> > serious misjudgment on IPN's part, quoting the> > SAMHSA advisory. My> > involvement in this group came out.> > > > I was roundly chastised for being bitter, and not> > "sharing" my> > feelings with the nurse's group. Several people> > said my resentment> > against the test was a sign that I was "neglecting> > my spiritual> > development" and that I needed to explore "what my> > part in it was". > > My part was that I peed in a cup and due to a> > majorly faulty test my> > life turned to garbage. I lost my job, I lost my> > license, I wound up> > in a Psych hospital and I'm over $100,000 in debt. > > I still remember> > the night I told the group about the positive test> > and was repeatedly> >

told that I was "in denial" about my supposed> > relapse. Not one of> > them expressed the sentiment that the whole> > experience must have> > hellish; they just verbally attacked me, saying I> > needed to work more> > on my program. > > > > Excuse me, but they just guaranteed that I'm not> > going to be sharing a> > heck of a lot with them in the future either.> > > > Wheew. NOW I feel better.> > > > > > > > >> > > I guess if you really tried you could see that> > ya'll don't have it so > > > bad. I mean really, what's a little incidential> > exposure that will > > > ruin

your lives? What's wrong with being called> > to the alter of urine > > > purity every whipstitch? > > >> > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________>

[Guest guest]

I continue to believe that the best people to monitor or counsel someone with an addiction should be someone who has/had an addiction. The ones currently in charge probably do believe they're helping us!! THEY'RE NOT!!Judy <floridajudy@...> wrote: The thing that truly baffles me is that the diversion programs don'tseem to realize the harm they're doing to their *own* programs bycontinuing to insist on using the EtG. Until September 30, they couldhave argued "Gee, we didn't know there was a

problem..we just acted ongood faith". Since then, they are going to have to defend why theycontinued to depend on a test that has not only been shown to be lessthan reliable in determining their case management, has in fact beendescribed as *promoting* relapse when used irresponsibly.I still believe in recovery, but have lost all faith in the monitoringprocess. It's a crap shoot that depends more on luck than oncompliance. I never expected them to announce they were abandoningthe test - that would be too much like taking responsibility,something that only we addicts/alcoholics are expected to do. But Idid expect them to quietly abandon it.Sigh. That would just make too much sense.>> Ditto Judy> I was at my nursing support group

yesterday, and when> I share my story on etg, you can tell they don't> believe me. I can remember when I first started this> group another nurse that was new in diversion was> asked to go to sober living after positive etg, she> refused stated I didn't relapse and quit the program.

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

Wait a minute correct me if I am wrong...we are talking about a license not someone's LIFE (other than yours) RIGHT???

She told me yesterday I should do what ever

they ask of me, I should go to another inpatient

rehab, drop out of school and go bankrupt if that what

it takes to complete my program

Do whatever they ask ugh.... ruin what life you have left to complete a program ForA License?? and then what.... try to pick up the pieces from there??? You know what I think rock bottom is without drinking ..these programs that use this test as God's word that you drank!! They are putting people in financial ruin, ruining families and lives for what? a license?? Trust me I know that you are all intelligent people and can survive without it!!

Re: Re: Things could be worse

Ditto Judy

I was at my nursing support group yesterday, and when

I share my story on etg, you can tell they don't

believe me. I can remember when I first started this

group another nurse that was new in diversion was

asked to go to sober living after positive etg, she

refused stated I didn't relapse and quit the program.

After she left some of the group including the leaders

stated that she couldn't surrender to her problem she

needed to admit to her relapse and do what ever

maximus asked of her. I know my group thinks that way

of me. I don't even want to share about it in my

group. My leaders are in charge of a rehab in san

diego. She told me yesterday I should do what ever

they ask of me, I should go to another inpatient

rehab, drop out of school and go bankrupt if that what

it takes to complete my program. I told her I would

refuse and try to go the probation route, or change

careers. She told me you will be prosecuted, you might

not get probation, and pretty much, my life would be

ruined.

I couldn't wait to come home and read your replies,

because I know there are other ways of living life. I

will not die if I do not complete diversion. Your

stories are proof that it is possible.

--- Judy <floridajudygru (DOT) net> wrote:

> Arrgghhh!!

>

> I'm *still* seething over what happened last night!

> During my "nurse

> support group" a woman mentioned she'd just had to

> submit a urine EtG

> today, and I blurted out "What? Don't tell me IPN

> is using that

> blasted test!" I explained exactly why I thought

> that this was a

> serious misjudgment on IPN's part, quoting the

> SAMHSA advisory. My

> involvement in this group came out.

>

> I was roundly chastised for being bitter, and not

> "sharing" my

> feelings with the nurse's group. Several people

> said my resentment

> against the test was a sign that I was "neglecting

> my spiritual

> development" and that I needed to explore "what my

> part in it was".

> My part was that I peed in a cup and due to a

> majorly faulty test my

> life turned to garbage. I lost my job, I lost my

> license, I wound up

> in a Psych hospital and I'm over $100,000 in debt.

> I still remember

> the night I told the group about the positive test

> and was repeatedly

> told that I was "in denial" about my supposed

> relapse. Not one of

> them expressed the sentiment that the whole

> experience must have

> hellish; they just verbally attacked me, saying I

> needed to work more

> on my program.

>

> Excuse me, but they just guaranteed that I'm not

> going to be sharing a

> heck of a lot with them in the future either.

>

> Wheew. NOW I feel better.

>

>

>

> >

> > I guess if you really tried you could see that

> ya'll don't have it so

> > bad. I mean really, what's a little incidential

> exposure that will

> > ruin your lives? What's wrong with being called

> to the alter of urine

> > purity every whipstitch?

> >

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Because they are sociopaths.

> > > >

> > > > I guess if you really tried you could see that

> > > ya'll don't have it so

> > > > bad. I mean really, what's a little incidential

> > > exposure that will

> > > > ruin your lives? What's wrong with being called

> > > to the alter of urine

> > > > purity every whipstitch?

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

Reading all your posts tonite with the nurse group commentary makes me truly

sick to my

stomach; I am so lucky with my RN group, cause the chick that runs it IS a real

nurse and

an ex-crack smoker, and kinda got thrown into being our leader by default, no

hidden

motives, is pretty cool and supportive, etc...When I had my nightmare with this

my group

was very supportive, and if someone DID think I drank they didn't have the BALLS

to

accuse me of it to my face; But unfortunately there are way too many nasty

as*ho*e mf's

out there that are in " powerful " positions in the facade of the " recovery

network " that DO

prey on the vulnerable and are either trying to benefit from the f*cked up

system, or are

just used to being able to bully the weak around and get their way...And like

Judy said,

what is UP with the new info that is out there now? Haven't they HEARD any of

it yet, or

are they just turning their backs to it out of pride and bad habit? WHO/ WHAT

IS SAMHSA

TO THESE PEOPLE?? ARE YOU TELLING ME THEY NEVER HEARD OF THEM OR DON " T GIVE A

SHIT WHAT THEY THINK?? For a DIVERSION or RECOVERY program, isn't SAMHSA the

federal level governing or advisory body that they all try to conform their

standards to? Or

am I completely misinformed and deluded? Yea, by this time I thought they would

have at

least started to try and save a little face by not crucifying MORE people with

" faulty "

evidence, or as Judy said, start to " quietly abandon it... " But then I

obvviously gave them

WAY to much credit...What's the definition of INSANITY again???

Amy

> > > >

> > > > I guess if you really tried you could see that

> > > ya'll don't have it so

> > > > bad. I mean really, what's a little incidential

> > > exposure that will

> > > > ruin your lives? What's wrong with being called

> > > to the alter of urine

> > > > purity every whipstitch?

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

I don't think it matters if monitoring programs are run by people in

recovery. The problem is the state boards. The best first step to

take towards improving matters is to have monitoring programs that are

not run by state boards. Regardless of who is in charge, the boards'

mission is to protect the public from people like us...sounds harsh,

yes, but it's the truth. Moreover, the easiest way for a board to

show how well they are doing their job is by trotting out statistics

on the number of licenses they suspend, revoke or deny, and EtG is a

convenient excuse for them to do so. State board-run monitoring

programs CANNOT truly advocate for the licensee--it is a conflict of

interest. In fact, one of the former directors of my state board

monitoring program left largely because he felt powerless to truly

advocate for his program's participants. Because he worked for the

state, he was pressured to treat the program's participants as

criminals, and did not feel he was able to truly be of service to them.

I truly believe that the best solution is for monitoring programs to

be separate entities...only then can they provide some checks and

balances to the state.

>

> I continue to believe that the best people to monitor or counsel

someone with an addiction should be someone who has/had an addiction.

The ones currently in charge probably do believe they're helping us!!

THEY'RE NOT!!

>

[Guest guest]

The whole thing stinks, if you ask me. I believe that Greg Skipper

had good intentions when he started promoting this test, but the

labs and boards have taken it and run with it, and are ignoring the

(lack of) science behind it.

In my opinion, a lot of people have a lot to gain from this test.

Obviously, it's a cash cow for the labs, so they want to keep it

up. It seems like a cutoff of at least 1000 would be necessary to

avoid snaring the folks who were incidentally exposed to alcohol,

but that would probably let those people off the hook who took a

drink or two on Friday and gave urines the following Monday, hence

rendering the test not much more useful than urine alcohol.

Also, the boards get to suspend more licenses and show how tough

they are on substance-abusing health professionals. And, the

treatment centers profit from having people sent back there on the

basis of a positive EtG, even though there has been no relapse into

substance abuse.

And, since the people being hurt by this test are just alcoholics

and addicts, these entities don't have to worry about doing harm to

people that actually matter in society...not that I really think

that way, but I do believe that it's what they think.

> > > > >

> > > > > I guess if you really tried you could see that

> > > > ya'll don't have it so

> > > > > bad. I mean really, what's a little incidential

> > > > exposure that will

> > > > > ruin your lives? What's wrong with being called

> > > > to the alter of urine

> > > > > purity every whipstitch?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

very insightful posting,lbfg 70191...it is a giant inquisatorial harm system that feeds itself on the "broken" recovering who are different therefore always guilty, lying,and bad...to me the only possible solution is to seek a class action legal remedy for those of us harmed from,the labs, the mismarketeers who profit the most from the harm but have to be accountable to the legal system and more importantly their shareholders for the harm they do...regards, giantsfan70191 <flamingo@...> wrote: The whole thing stinks, if you ask me. I believe that Greg Skipper had good intentions when he started promoting this test, but the labs and boards have taken it and run with it, and are ignoring the (lack of) science behind it. In my opinion, a lot of people have a lot to gain from this test. Obviously, it's a cash cow for the labs, so they want to keep it up. It seems like a cutoff of at least 1000 would be necessary to avoid snaring the folks who were incidentally exposed to alcohol, but that would probably let those people off the hook who took a drink or two on Friday and gave urines the following Monday, hence rendering the test not much more useful than urine alcohol.Also, the boards get to suspend more licenses and show how tough they are on substance-abusing health professionals. And, the treatment centers

profit from having people sent back there on the basis of a positive EtG, even though there has been no relapse into substance abuse.And, since the people being hurt by this test are just alcoholics and addicts, these entities don't have to worry about doing harm to people that actually matter in society...not that I really think that way, but I do believe that it's what they think.> > > > >> > > > > I guess if you really tried you could see that> > > > ya'll don't have it so> > > > > bad. I mean really, what's a little incidential> >

> > exposure that will> > > > > ruin your lives? What's wrong with being called> > > > to the alter of urine> > > > > purity every whipstitch?> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > __________________________________________________> > >

[Guest guest]

I agree wholeheartedly. Moreover, people without substance abuse

problems will never be subjected to this test as, since alcohol is a

legal substance, EtG is not applicable to things like pre-employment

screenings or random workplace drug testing.

Another thing that rubs me the wrong way is how this test has been

introduced, and the fact that I and, probably, quite a few others,

have had to look to the Internet to be aware of its controversies

and potential pitfalls. If the monitoring programs were true to

their purported mission of helping us, I think they would at least

tell us about the test and give recommendations of things to avoid

that might lead to a positive--then again, other than hand

sanitizer, nobody really knows, and people are still coming up

positive with no explanation...

While I have been fortunate enough to have had negative EtGs so far

in my experience, I feel for those who have not been so lucky, and I

am very much in support of a class-action lawsuit against the labs

and, possibly, even malpractice suits against the M.D.s who serve as

medical directors for the labs, as well as those who work for the

monitoring programs that are hanging people out to dry on the basis

of a low-level EtG positive.

I also agree with what others have said, that we are ALL affected

negatively by this test, even if we don't test positive. It's one

thing to have to avoid substances like vanilla extract and NyQuil,

but an environment such as this, where we have to be paranoid about

everything we expose ourselves to, even things that could not, in

any reasonable person's mind, lead to intoxication, is simply cruel

and unusual, and has nothing whatsoever to do with recovery.

And, even those of us who have managed (so far) to get through with

negative urines still have to deal with the stress of playing

Russian roulette every time we pee in a cup...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I guess if you really tried you could see that

> > > > > ya'll don't have it so

> > > > > > bad. I mean really, what's a little incidential

> > > > > exposure that will

> > > > > > ruin your lives? What's wrong with being called

> > > > > to the alter of urine

> > > > > > purity every whipstitch?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > __________________________________________________

> > > >

[Guest guest]

at the heart of the problem to me is that per table 1 of the UAE study lorie has is that we all make endogenous alcohol and the expontential variabilty of EtG will skew that way above 100ng/ml at times,hence the recent wikipedia update by gregskipper to 1000ng/ml...i agree that the new value would be more appropriate but a laboratory test should never ever be used alone to diagnose the complex clinical disease...a physician who makes a diagnosis of diabetes on the basis of one elavated blood sugar would be laughed off the medical staff of any hospital i know,and yet that is what is being done on a daily basis with EtG usually by non mds,ruining careers,families,lives...regards, giantsfan70191 <flamingo@...> wrote: I agree wholeheartedly. Moreover, people without substance abuse problems will never be subjected to this test as, since alcohol is a legal substance, EtG is not applicable to things like pre-employment screenings or random workplace drug testing.Another thing that rubs me the wrong way is how this test has been introduced, and the fact that I and, probably, quite a few others, have had to look to the Internet to be aware of its controversies and potential pitfalls. If the monitoring programs were true to their purported mission of helping us, I think they would at least tell us

about the test and give recommendations of things to avoid that might lead to a positive--then again, other than hand sanitizer, nobody really knows, and people are still coming up positive with no explanation...While I have been fortunate enough to have had negative EtGs so far in my experience, I feel for those who have not been so lucky, and I am very much in support of a class-action lawsuit against the labs and, possibly, even malpractice suits against the M.D.s who serve as medical directors for the labs, as well as those who work for the monitoring programs that are hanging people out to dry on the basis of a low-level EtG positive. I also agree with what others have said, that we are ALL affected negatively by this test, even if we don't test positive. It's one thing to have to avoid substances like vanilla extract and NyQuil, but an environment such as this, where we have to be paranoid about

everything we expose ourselves to, even things that could not, in any reasonable person's mind, lead to intoxication, is simply cruel and unusual, and has nothing whatsoever to do with recovery.And, even those of us who have managed (so far) to get through with negative urines still have to deal with the stress of playing Russian roulette every time we pee in a cup...> > > > > >> > > > > > I guess if you really tried you could see that> > > > > ya'll don't have it so> > > > > > bad. I mean

really, what's a little incidential> > > > > exposure that will> > > > > > ruin your lives? What's wrong with being called> > > > > to the alter of urine> > > > > > purity every whipstitch?> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > __________________________________________________> > > >