Chuck - Re reverse T3, Thyroid Testing & recent bloodwork

[Guest guest]

Sorry it has taken be so long to respond Chuck. I have tried to absorb ur

post but am a bit confused still. Before I elaborate on my confusion, I

thought I'd post what my last labs revealed. T

January 29, 2010 LAbcorp. On 60 mg Dessicated thyroid compound

Ferritin 69 Norms

10 to 291

Free T4 .80 .80

to 1.80 *LOW*

Free T3 295 230

to 420

TSH .110

..490 to 5.660 *LOW*

Vitamin

B12 553

180 to 914

Serum Folate 8.2 5.4

to 24

Testosterone 27

2-45

DHEA 360

l02-1185,.

These below were done By LabCorp In May 2010 on compounded Armour thyroid

75mg am. and 15 mg about 3 p.m.- Day of test no meds taken. Increase in

dose INCREASED my TSH, Ft3 and Ft4. Doc did a reverse T3 (But never

commented on it) because of my complaints. I know very little about the

things checked below or why they'd be important to a thyroid patient.

TSH .276 Norms .450 to 4.500 LOW

FT4 Direct .99 Norms .82 to 1.77

FT3 3.0 Norms 2.0 to 4.4

Reverse T3 238 Norms 90 to 350 ???? Means what

PTH Intact 54 Norms l5 to 65

Calcium Ion. 5.0 Norms 4.5 to 5.6

Cortisol AM 21.9 Norms 6.2 to 19.4 HIGH

Pregnenolone 43 Norms 20-150

TPO 14 " 0-34 ???? Means what?

Anti. Ab <20 " 0-20

DHEA Sul. 161.l " 18.9 to 205.00

Prolactin 11.0 " 4.8 to 23.3

_________________________________________________________________

Aug 2010 Esoterix Labs and Labcorp. on l l/2 Armour Thyroid

Testosterone TTL 22 Norms ? to 40

Free Test. 2.0 " l.l to 6.3

% Free By Dial. .9% " .8 to l.4

Aldosterone Serum 12 Adult upright 7-30 Norms (Is this too low-?)

Cortisol Serum 23 Norm 8.0 - 19.0 HIGH

DHEA Sulf. Serum 75 Females 62 to 70 yrs) Norm 10 to 115 (This

dropped from 161. in May

directly above. Is this a signifcant

drop - does it mean anything to my health?

17Alpha Hydroxy-

progesterone , Serum 36 Norm Postmeno. on HRT Not listed...Norms

listed for pre an peri.

Androstenedione, Mass

Spectrometry 67 Norm Postmeno <10 to 93 Is this on

high end? What is this?

Prolactin Serum 10 Norms 3-24

IGF-I (BL) 158 Norm61 - 70 yrs is 75-263 Mean

180 SD 51

(what on earth is this , espceially the 3 results of Range, mean and

SD?)

Creatinine, serum l.00 Norm .57 to l.00

eGFR 56 Nor . 59 Am I in trouble

- she said " Oh don't worry "

Bun Creatinine

Ration 16 Norm 8 to 27

Chromogranin A.

Serial Monitor

Chromo. A Prformed by Euro-Diagnostica Methodology = me 2 Norms 0-5

FT4 .80 Norm .82 to l.77 (this

level dropped when I dropped from l and half grains

Armour Compound to l and l/4 quarter gr)

TSH .660 .450 to 4.500

(was .276 on l l/2 gr compound Armour)

FSH 20.6 Norm for Post meno .25.8 to l34.8 Isn't

this low? Does it mean anything? Not

Note as low on lab report.

LH l0.5 Norm for Post meno 7.7 to 58.5. This

seems fairly low as well.

Calcitonin <2.0 Norm 0.0 to 5.0

Isnt this low?

On tests this new doc is ordering for 6 wks from now is TSH and FT4.

If the info this doc provided me that Armour or T4/T3 combos can cause a

reduced T4 level, why do I seem to show an increase instead when my Armour

dose is raised? I also don't understand why some of the items which fall

out of range wouldn't be so marked by the lab? Therefore, I don't know if

I need further follow up or not on any of the strange tests ordered in this

group.

A Renin test was also order, but form claims not enough serum was available

- same for my estradiol. Free cortisol serum was ordered as well, but no

frozen sample was received to perform the test.

Duffy

P.S. I know this is a lot of stuff, I just thought it might help to

determine if I have that Reverse stuff you are speaking of if you have prior

test and tests following the reverse t3 results. to compare to. think

All I really undestand is that I'm not Hasi's (??) but I am not well versed

enough to know whether I have any functioning thyroid left, or if I'm

suffering from the reverse thing.

I don't know what I'm suffering from, but I sure am tired of

it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- Show quoted text -

--

Duffy

Your response to my post below

Duffy,

You wrote:

>

> New doc recently told me that my low Free T4 at 80 (range 82 to 180) was

> nothing to worry about because I take Armour. ...

> Is this real or crap?

>

Mostly real. Armour supplies you much less T4 than either Synthroid or a

functioning gland would supply, so both TT4 and FT4 should be below the

reference range. The reference range is determined for an UNMEDICATED,

ASYMPTOMATIC population. It represents a ONE-SIGMA variation above and

below the mean for a skewed distribution. All that means is that you

need to interpret (and maybe calculate) some things for a person

diagnosed with hypoT and taking medication. The reference range

definitely does not mean anything is normal. It just gives you a range

to compare to from a euthyroid population that does not take any thyroid

medications.

Many people on Armour do not feel well until the TSH is below the

reference range and FT3 is at the upper end. That is " normal " for them.

Now for the exception. I would still want to compare FT3 to TT3, or

equivalently and cheaper to measure, FT4 to TT4. That would show whether

you have a binding disorder, even if both the total and free were in the

reference range. The ratio is what is critical.

If your TSH is at or below the bottom of the reference range, and your

frees and ratios are OK, then I would look at RT3. That is what Roni has

struggled with. It is relatively rare, but it is another way that most

of the tests can be in the reference range, but you still have hypoT

symptoms.

About half of the T4 you take is turned into RT3 instead of T3. If that

percentage increases by even a small amount, the RT3 actually blocks the

activity of T3. It not only has almost no activity of its own, it fills

T3 receptors in the cells and prevents T3 from activating the metabolic

pathways.

's syndrome, which we disparaged a bit recently, claimed that RT3

itself promotes the excess conversion of T4 to RT3. Thus, it creates a

" locked " feedback loop once it starts. Several studies have shown this

to be impossible, but something can keep the RT3 in excess for a long

period. Adrenal failure can do it. So can starvation. Roni doesn't seem

to have either condition, so something else must be going on. We just

know it helps for the extreme cases to avoid any source of T4. Some do

well on Armour, since it is mostly T3. You might be in the same boat.

Chuck

My original post

New doc recently told me that my low Free T4 at 80 (range 82 to 180) was

nothing to worry about because I take Armour. She indicated that because my

TSH was .6600 , I was fine and didn't need any further meds. She didn't

test my Free T3 elaborating that neither frees mean anything because Armour

has T3 in the preparation.

I have never heard this before, and I certainly don't agree - what with

mounds of hair falling and fatigue, very dry skin and body pain all being

part of my complaint.

today, a week after I saw the doc I got a single paper in the mail, which

read at the bottom page 6 of 12, (evidently a medical source of some sort?)

- no title or web addy on top, which cited this very same info - that the

frees mean nothing on Armour.

Is this real or crap?