Re: Armour and testing thyroid function

[Guest guest]

Duffy,

You wrote:

>

> New doc recently told me that my low Free T4 at 80 (range 82 to 180) was

> nothing to worry about because I take Armour. ...

> Is this real or crap?

>

Mostly real. Armour supplies you much less T4 than either Synthroid or a

functioning gland would supply, so both TT4 and FT4 should be below the

reference range. The reference range is determined for an UNMEDICATED,

ASYMPTOMATIC population. It represents a ONE-SIGMA variation above and

below the mean for a skewed distribution. All that means is that you

need to interpret (and maybe calculate) some things for a person

diagnosed with hypoT and taking medication. The reference range

definitely does not mean anything is normal. It just gives you a range

to compare to from a euthyroid population that does not take any thyroid

medications.

Many people on Armour do not feel well until the TSH is below the

reference range and FT3 is at the upper end. That is " normal " for them.

Now for the exception. I would still want to compare FT3 to TT3, or

equivalently and cheaper to measure, FT4 to TT4. That would show whether

you have a binding disorder, even if both the total and free were in the

reference range. The ratio is what is critical.

If your TSH is at or below the bottom of the reference range, and your

frees and ratios are OK, then I would look at RT3. That is what Roni has

struggled with. It is relatively rare, but it is another way that most

of the tests can be in the reference range, but you still have hypoT

symptoms.

About half of the T4 you take is turned into RT3 instead of T3. If that

percentage increases by even a small amount, the RT3 actually blocks the

activity of T3. It not only has almost no activity of its own, it fills

T3 receptors in the cells and prevents T3 from activating the metabolic

pathways.

's syndrome, which we disparaged a bit recently, claimed that RT3

itself promotes the excess conversion of T4 to RT3. Thus, it creates a

" locked " feedback loop once it starts. Several studies have shown this

to be impossible, but something can keep the RT3 in excess for a long

period. Adrenal failure can do it. So can starvation. Roni doesn't seem

to have either condition, so something else must be going on. We just

know it helps for the extreme cases to avoid any source of T4. Some do

well on Armour, since it is mostly T3. You might be in the same boat.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Once the RT3 showed up and I was switched to T3 only, the RT3 started gonig down

and I started to feel better. They tried to add back some T4 to hopefully

stabilize me since T3 is very short acting and requires multiple dosing. It

didn't work. I got sick as a dog each time they tried it. So far things are

better on the T3 only.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

> New doc recently told me that my low Free T4 at 80 (range 82 to 180) was

> nothing to worry about because I take Armour. ...

> Is this real or crap?

>

Mostly real. Armour supplies you much less T4 than either Synthroid or a

functioning gland would supply, so both TT4 and FT4 should be below the

reference range. The reference range is determined for an UNMEDICATED,

ASYMPTOMATIC population. It represents a ONE-SIGMA variation above and

below the mean for a skewed distribution. All that means is that you

need to interpret (and maybe calculate) some things for a person

diagnosed with hypoT and taking medication. The reference range

definitely does not mean anything is normal. It just gives you a range

to compare to from a euthyroid population that does not take any thyroid

medications.

Many people on Armour do not feel well until the TSH is below the

reference range and FT3 is at the upper end. That is " normal " for them.

Now for the exception. I would still want to compare FT3 to TT3, or

equivalently and cheaper to measure, FT4 to TT4. That would show whether

you have a binding disorder, even if both the total and free were in the

reference range. The ratio is what is critical.

If your TSH is at or below the bottom of the reference range, and your

frees and ratios are OK, then I would look at RT3. That is what Roni has

struggled with. It is relatively rare, but it is another way that most

of the tests can be in the reference range, but you still have hypoT

symptoms.

About half of the T4 you take is turned into RT3 instead of T3. If that

percentage increases by even a small amount, the RT3 actually blocks the

activity of T3. It not only has almost no activity of its own, it fills

T3 receptors in the cells and prevents T3 from activating the metabolic

pathways.

's syndrome, which we disparaged a bit recently, claimed that RT3

itself promotes the excess conversion of T4 to RT3. Thus, it creates a

" locked " feedback loop once it starts. Several studies have shown this

to be impossible, but something can keep the RT3 in excess for a long

period. Adrenal failure can do it. So can starvation. Roni doesn't seem

to have either condition, so something else must be going on. We just

know it helps for the extreme cases to avoid any source of T4. Some do

well on Armour, since it is mostly T3. You might be in the same boat.

Chuck

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Tami, the analysis below by Chuck is exactly the kind of thing I was

trying to tell you could probably/possibly [but maybe not] be done with

your personal lab results. I'll bet you cannot find one practitioner in

a thousand that can provide that analysis, whether allopathic or

alternative.

Luck,

..

..

> Posted by: " Chuck B " gumboyaya@...

>

<mailto:gumboyaya@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Armour%20and%20testing%20thyroid%20\

function>

> gumbo482001 <gumbo482001>

>

>

> Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:34 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> Duffy,

>

> You wrote:

> >

> > New doc recently told me that my low Free T4 at 80 (range 82 to 180) was

> > nothing to worry about because I take Armour. ...

> > Is this real or crap?

> >

> Mostly real. Armour supplies you much less T4 than either Synthroid or a

> functioning gland would supply, so both TT4 and FT4 should be below the

> reference range. The reference range is determined for an UNMEDICATED,

> ASYMPTOMATIC population. It represents a ONE-SIGMA variation above and

> below the mean for a skewed distribution. All that means is that you

> need to interpret (and maybe calculate) some things for a person

> diagnosed with hypoT and taking medication. The reference range

> definitely does not mean anything is normal. It just gives you a range

> to compare to from a euthyroid population that does not take any thyroid

> medications.

>

> Many people on Armour do not feel well until the TSH is below the

> reference range and FT3 is at the upper end. That is " normal " for them.

>

> Now for the exception. I would still want to compare FT3 to TT3, or

> equivalently and cheaper to measure, FT4 to TT4. That would show whether

> you have a binding disorder, even if both the total and free were in the

> reference range. The ratio is what is critical.

>

> If your TSH is at or below the bottom of the reference range, and your

> frees and ratios are OK, then I would look at RT3. That is what Roni has

> struggled with. It is relatively rare, but it is another way that most

> of the tests can be in the reference range, but you still have hypoT

> symptoms.

>

> About half of the T4 you take is turned into RT3 instead of T3. If that

> percentage increases by even a small amount, the RT3 actually blocks the

> activity of T3. It not only has almost no activity of its own, it fills

> T3 receptors in the cells and prevents T3 from activating the metabolic

> pathways.

>

> 's syndrome, which we disparaged a bit recently, claimed that RT3

> itself promotes the excess conversion of T4 to RT3. Thus, it creates a

> " locked " feedback loop once it starts. Several studies have shown this

> to be impossible, but something can keep the RT3 in excess for a long

> period. Adrenal failure can do it. So can starvation. Roni doesn't seem

> to have either condition, so something else must be going on. We just

> know it helps for the extreme cases to avoid any source of T4. Some do

> well on Armour, since it is mostly T3. You might be in the same boat.

>

> Chuck

[Guest guest]

Chuck - so what you are saying, I think, is that having a flagged low Free T4 on

Armour is not an uncommom issue? I have read this on other websites - that labs

for Free T4 (with good TSH, etc.) is a common issue with Armour and usually not

a real issue - am I reading your post correctly?

> >

> > New doc recently told me that my low Free T4 at 80 (range 82 to 180) was

> > nothing to worry about because I take Armour. ...

> > Is this real or crap?

> >

> Mostly real. Armour supplies you much less T4 than either Synthroid or a

> functioning gland would supply, so both TT4 and FT4 should be below the

> reference range. The reference range is determined for an UNMEDICATED,

> ASYMPTOMATIC population. It represents a ONE-SIGMA variation above and

> below the mean for a skewed distribution. All that means is that you

> need to interpret (and maybe calculate) some things for a person

> diagnosed with hypoT and taking medication. The reference range

> definitely does not mean anything is normal. It just gives you a range

> to compare to from a euthyroid population that does not take any thyroid

> medications.

>

> Many people on Armour do not feel well until the TSH is below the

> reference range and FT3 is at the upper end. That is " normal " for them.

>

> Now for the exception. I would still want to compare FT3 to TT3, or

> equivalently and cheaper to measure, FT4 to TT4. That would show whether

> you have a binding disorder, even if both the total and free were in the

> reference range. The ratio is what is critical.

>

> If your TSH is at or below the bottom of the reference range, and your

> frees and ratios are OK, then I would look at RT3. That is what Roni has

> struggled with. It is relatively rare, but it is another way that most

> of the tests can be in the reference range, but you still have hypoT

> symptoms.

>

> About half of the T4 you take is turned into RT3 instead of T3. If that

> percentage increases by even a small amount, the RT3 actually blocks the

> activity of T3. It not only has almost no activity of its own, it fills

> T3 receptors in the cells and prevents T3 from activating the metabolic

> pathways.

>

> 's syndrome, which we disparaged a bit recently, claimed that RT3

> itself promotes the excess conversion of T4 to RT3. Thus, it creates a

> " locked " feedback loop once it starts. Several studies have shown this

> to be impossible, but something can keep the RT3 in excess for a long

> period. Adrenal failure can do it. So can starvation. Roni doesn't seem

> to have either condition, so something else must be going on. We just

> know it helps for the extreme cases to avoid any source of T4. Some do

> well on Armour, since it is mostly T3. You might be in the same boat.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

, part of what I was saying is that analysis and opinions aren't said in

plain English here. I've been struggling to understand the thyroid and all of

it's ins-n-outs and reading something like that makes me skim through it because

it's so hard to understand that I give up on it. I would consider myself an

above average person on intellect, read a lot,etc. I can't even imagine how it

would be for someone else to read that who isn't as experienced or perhaps as

well read as I am. Plain not fair to expect the average person to understand

what he's trying to say below. Even though the information might be valuable, I

can't understand what is being said.

Tami

http://www.hypothyroidblog.com

________________________________

From: <res075oh@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Sat, September 11, 2010 10:29:28 AM

Subject: Re: Armour and testing thyroid function

Tami, the analysis below by Chuck is exactly the kind of thing I was

trying to tell you could probably/possibly [but maybe not] be done with

your personal lab results. I'll bet you cannot find one practitioner in

a thousand that can provide that analysis, whether allopathic or

alternative.

Luck,

..

..

> Posted by: " Chuck B " gumboyaya@...

>

><mailto:gumboyaya@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Armour%20and%20testing%20thyroid%2\

0function>

>

> gumbo482001 <gumbo482001>

>

>

> Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:34 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> Duffy,

>

> You wrote:

> >

> > New doc recently told me that my low Free T4 at 80 (range 82 to 180) was

> > nothing to worry about because I take Armour. ...

> > Is this real or crap?

> >

> Mostly real. Armour supplies you much less T4 than either Synthroid or a

> functioning gland would supply, so both TT4 and FT4 should be below the

> reference range. The reference range is determined for an UNMEDICATED,

> ASYMPTOMATIC population. It represents a ONE-SIGMA variation above and

> below the mean for a skewed distribution. All that means is that you

> need to interpret (and maybe calculate) some things for a person

> diagnosed with hypoT and taking medication. The reference range

> definitely does not mean anything is normal. It just gives you a range

> to compare to from a euthyroid population that does not take any thyroid

> medications.

>

> Many people on Armour do not feel well until the TSH is below the

> reference range and FT3 is at the upper end. That is " normal " for them.

>

> Now for the exception. I would still want to compare FT3 to TT3, or

> equivalently and cheaper to measure, FT4 to TT4. That would show whether

> you have a binding disorder, even if both the total and free were in the

> reference range. The ratio is what is critical.

>

> If your TSH is at or below the bottom of the reference range, and your

> frees and ratios are OK, then I would look at RT3. That is what Roni has

> struggled with. It is relatively rare, but it is another way that most

> of the tests can be in the reference range, but you still have hypoT

> symptoms.

>

> About half of the T4 you take is turned into RT3 instead of T3. If that

> percentage increases by even a small amount, the RT3 actually blocks the

> activity of T3. It not only has almost no activity of its own, it fills

> T3 receptors in the cells and prevents T3 from activating the metabolic

> pathways.

>

> 's syndrome, which we disparaged a bit recently, claimed that RT3

> itself promotes the excess conversion of T4 to RT3. Thus, it creates a

> " locked " feedback loop once it starts. Several studies have shown this

> to be impossible, but something can keep the RT3 in excess for a long

> period. Adrenal failure can do it. So can starvation. Roni doesn't seem

> to have either condition, so something else must be going on. We just

> know it helps for the extreme cases to avoid any source of T4. Some do

> well on Armour, since it is mostly T3. You might be in the same boat.

>

> Chuck

[Guest guest]

Do you see that isn't absolutely certain of the message that was

given to her. Bet she read it more than a few times to get the meaning...not to

belittle her intelligence in the slightest! It's just not written for the

average reader it's written as if it was for a medical text.

Tami

http://www.hypothyroidblog.com

________________________________

From: A <adinterests@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Sat, September 11, 2010 10:47:09 AM

Subject: Re: Armour and testing thyroid function

Chuck - so what you are saying, I think, is that having a flagged low Free T4 on

Armour is not an uncommom issue? I have read this on other websites - that labs

for Free T4 (with good TSH, etc.) is a common issue with Armour and usually not

a real issue - am I reading your post correctly?

> >

> > New doc recently told me that my low Free T4 at 80 (range 82 to 180) was

> > nothing to worry about because I take Armour. ...

> > Is this real or crap?

> >

> Mostly real. Armour supplies you much less T4 than either Synthroid or a

> functioning gland would supply, so both TT4 and FT4 should be below the

> reference range. The reference range is determined for an UNMEDICATED,

> ASYMPTOMATIC population. It represents a ONE-SIGMA variation above and

> below the mean for a skewed distribution. All that means is that you

> need to interpret (and maybe calculate) some things for a person

> diagnosed with hypoT and taking medication. The reference range

> definitely does not mean anything is normal. It just gives you a range

> to compare to from a euthyroid population that does not take any thyroid

> medications.

>

> Many people on Armour do not feel well until the TSH is below the

> reference range and FT3 is at the upper end. That is " normal " for them.

>

> Now for the exception. I would still want to compare FT3 to TT3, or

> equivalently and cheaper to measure, FT4 to TT4. That would show whether

> you have a binding disorder, even if both the total and free were in the

> reference range. The ratio is what is critical.

>

> If your TSH is at or below the bottom of the reference range, and your

> frees and ratios are OK, then I would look at RT3. That is what Roni has

> struggled with. It is relatively rare, but it is another way that most

> of the tests can be in the reference range, but you still have hypoT

> symptoms.

>

> About half of the T4 you take is turned into RT3 instead of T3. If that

> percentage increases by even a small amount, the RT3 actually blocks the

> activity of T3. It not only has almost no activity of its own, it fills

> T3 receptors in the cells and prevents T3 from activating the metabolic

> pathways.

>

> 's syndrome, which we disparaged a bit recently, claimed that RT3

> itself promotes the excess conversion of T4 to RT3. Thus, it creates a

> " locked " feedback loop once it starts. Several studies have shown this

> to be impossible, but something can keep the RT3 in excess for a long

> period. Adrenal failure can do it. So can starvation. Roni doesn't seem

> to have either condition, so something else must be going on. We just

> know it helps for the extreme cases to avoid any source of T4. Some do

> well on Armour, since it is mostly T3. You might be in the same boat.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

I just read it again looking for places where someone not versed in

science might well be confused and I do in fact see a few. But there is

a heck of a lot of good info there and I'm sure Chuck would be more than

willing to clarify the few locations where you may be thrown off track.

I would even be willing to have a shot at it myself as I don't find the

terms totally foreign; however since I'm not a scientist or any kind of

professional I might screw it up. In any event Chuck is about the most

helpful person you will ever find so don't hesitate to ask for

clarification.

Luck,

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Tj " bedohaveall@...

>

<mailto:bedohaveall@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Armour%20and%20testing%20thyroi\

d%20function>

> hypotami <hypotami>

>

>

> Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:11 am (PDT)

>

>

>

> , part of what I was saying is that analysis and opinions aren't

> said in

> plain English here. I've been struggling to understand the thyroid and

> all of

> it's ins-n-outs and reading something like that makes me skim through

> it because

> it's so hard to understand that I give up on it. I would consider

> myself an

> above average person on intellect, read a lot,etc. I can't even

> imagine how it

> would be for someone else to read that who isn't as experienced or

> perhaps as

> well read as I am. Plain not fair to expect the average person to

> understand

> what he's trying to say below. Even though the information might be

> valuable, I

> can't understand what is being said.

>

> Tami

> http://www.hypothyroidblog.com <http://www.hypothyroidblog.com>

>

> ____________

> ____________________

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Sent: Sat, September 11, 2010 10:29:28 AM

> Subject: Re: Armour and testing thyroid function

>

> Tami, the analysis below by Chuck is exactly the kind of thing I was

> trying to tell you could probably/possibly [but maybe not] be done with

> your personal lab results. I'll bet you cannot find one practitioner in

> a thousand that can provide that analysis, whether allopathic or

> alternative.

>

> Luck,

>

> .

> .

>

> > Posted by: " Chuck B " gumboyaya@... <mailto:gumboyaya%40cox.net>

> >

> ><mailto:gumboyaya@...

>

<mailto:gumboyaya%40cox.net>?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Armour%20and%20testing%20thyroid\

%20function>

> >

> > gumbo482001 <gumbo482001

> <gumbo482001>>

> >

> >

> > Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:34 pm (PDT)

> >

> >

> >

> > Duffy,

> >

> > You wrote:

> > >

> > > New doc recently told me that my low Free T4 at 80 (range 82 to

> 180) was

> > > nothing to worry about because I take Armour. ...

> > > Is this real or crap?

> > >

> > Mostly real. Armour supplies you much less T4 than either Synthroid or a

> > functioning gland would supply, so both TT4 and FT4 should be below the

> > reference range. The reference range is determined for an UNMEDICATED,

> > ASYMPTOMATIC population. It represents a ONE-SIGMA variation above and

> > below the mean for a skewed distribution. All that means is that you

> > need to interpret (and maybe calculate) some things for a person

> > diagnosed with hypoT and taking medication. The reference range

> > definitely does not mean anything is normal. It just gives you a range

> > to compare to from a euthyroid population that does not take any thyroid

> > medications.

> >

> > Many people on Armour do not feel well until the TSH is below the

> > reference range and FT3 is at the upper end. That is " normal " for them.

> >

> > Now for the exception. I would still want to compare FT3 to TT3, or

> > equivalently and cheaper to measure, FT4 to TT4. That would show whether

> > you have a binding disorder, even if both the total and free were in the

> > reference range. The ratio is what is critical.

> >

> > If your TSH is at or below the bottom of the reference range, and your

> > frees and ratios are OK, then I would look at RT3. That is what Roni has

> > struggled with. It is relatively rare, but it is another way that most

> > of the tests can be in the reference range, but you still have hypoT

> > symptoms.

> >

> > About half of the T4 you take is turned into RT3 instead of T3. If that

> > percentage increases by even a small amount, the RT3 actually blocks the

> > activity of T3. It not only has almost no activity of its own, it fills

> > T3 receptors in the cells and prevents T3 from activating the metabolic

> > pathways.

> >

> > 's syndrome, which we disparaged a bit recently, claimed that RT3

> > itself promotes the excess conversion of T4 to RT3. Thus, it creates a

> > " locked " feedback loop once it starts. Several studies have shown this

> > to be impossible, but something can keep the RT3 in excess for a long

> > period. Adrenal failure can do it. So can starvation. Roni doesn't seem

> > to have either condition, so something else must be going on. We just

> > know it helps for the extreme cases to avoid any source of T4. Some do

> > well on Armour, since it is mostly T3. You might be in the same boat.

> >

> > Chuck

[Guest guest]

Sure; but as I said Chuck will clarify. And IMHO it's often not a

matter of intelligence but of education [formal or otherwise]. If you

think Chuck's posts are aimed at an educational level too high for this

list you should try reading an actual medical text. Much of it for me

may as well be Greek.

..

..

> Posted by: " Tj " bedohaveall@...

>

<mailto:bedohaveall@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Armour%20and%20testing%20thyroi\

d%20function>

> hypotami <hypotami>

>

>

> Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:13 am (PDT)

>

>

>

> Do you see that isn't absolutely certain of the message

> that was

> given to her. Bet she read it more than a few times to get the

> meaning...not to

> belittle her intelligence in the slightest! It's just not written for the

> average reader it's written as if it was for a medical text.

>

> Tami

[Guest guest]

I wonder what will be the next complaint.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: Re: Armour and testing thyroid function

hypothyroidism

Date: Saturday, September 11, 2010, 8:28 PM

Sure; but as I said Chuck will clarify.  And IMHO it's often not a

matter of intelligence but of education [formal or otherwise].  If you

think Chuck's posts are aimed at an educational level too high for this

list you should try reading an actual medical text.  Much of it for me

may as well be Greek.

..

..

>       Posted by: " Tj " bedohaveall@...

>   

   <mailto:bedohaveall@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Armour%20and%20testing%20thy\

roid%20function>

>       hypotami <hypotami>

>

>

>         Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:13 am (PDT)

>

>

>

> Do you see that isn't absolutely certain of the message

> that was

> given to her. Bet she read it more than a few times to get the

> meaning...not to

> belittle her intelligence in the slightest! It's just not written for the

> average reader it's written as if it was for a medical text.

>

> Tami

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I agree - ANY medical info requires a thorough reading regardless of who writes

the info - that is just part of the details. I understand completely upon

clarification, AND I had a good handle on the original answer. I simply wanted

clarification then I could take the comment as a good one, or if I disagreed, I

could throw it in my mental trash bin. With most info, one needs the details -

you can tell me I am 'sick' or you can tell my the 'whys' but it all boils down

to details. I have read many medical documents and picked out info that even a

doctor skipped over but it DOES take several times of reading to see what the

intent was - I am not a doctor so I do not 'think' like one but I have had tons

of experience in reading documents, medical, governmental, corporation - and it

is all in the wording. Sometimes I think it is done on purpose just to confuse

the general population but that is a whole different subject )))

>

> Sure; but as I said Chuck will clarify. And IMHO it's often not a

> matter of intelligence but of education [formal or otherwise]. If you

> think Chuck's posts are aimed at an educational level too high for this

> list you should try reading an actual medical text. Much of it for me

> may as well be Greek.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Roni, it's the same complaints along with your same ugly attitude.

Tami

http://www.hypothyroidblog.com

________________________________

From: Roni Molin <matchermaam@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Sat, September 11, 2010 10:02:09 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Armour and testing thyroid function

I wonder what will be the next complaint.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: Re: Armour and testing thyroid function

hypothyroidism

Date: Saturday, September 11, 2010, 8:28 PM

Sure; but as I said Chuck will clarify. And IMHO it's often not a

matter of intelligence but of education [formal or otherwise]. If you

think Chuck's posts are aimed at an educational level too high for this

list you should try reading an actual medical text. Much of it for me

may as well be Greek.

..

..

> Posted by: " Tj " bedohaveall@...

>

>

<mailto:bedohaveall@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Armour%20and%20testing%20thyroi\

d%20function>

>

> hypotami <hypotami>

>

>

> Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:13 am (PDT)

>

>

>

> Do you see that isn't absolutely certain of the message

> that was

> given to her. Bet she read it more than a few times to get the

> meaning...not to

> belittle her intelligence in the slightest! It's just not written for the

> average reader it's written as if it was for a medical text.

>

> Tami

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

For the most part it's not really from an intent to confuse us ordinary

mortals; rather it's in order to be more clearly understood by

professionals in the field. The language in science and medicine [as

well as other] fields often presents a much more rigorous definitions of

terms which aid in presenting very complex subjects with greater clarity

to those who " speak the language " .

Regards,

..

..

>

> Posted by: " A " adinterests@...

>

<mailto:adinterests@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Armour%20and%20testing%20thyroi\

d%20function>

> adinterests <adinterests>

>

>

> Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:53 am (PDT)

>

>

>

> I agree - ANY medical info requires a thorough reading regardless of

> who writes the info - that is just part of the details. I understand

> completely upon clarification, AND I had a good handle on the original

> answer. I simply wanted clarification then I could take the comment as

> a good one, or if I disagreed, I could throw it in my mental trash

> bin. With most info, one needs the details - you can tell me I am

> 'sick' or you can tell my the 'whys' but it all boils down to details.

> I have read many medical documents and picked out info that even a

> doctor skipped over but it DOES take several times of reading to see

> what the intent was - I am not a doctor so I do not 'think' like one

> but I have had tons of experience in reading documents, medical,

> governmental, corporation - and it is all in the wording. Sometimes I

> think it is done on purpose just to confuse the general population but

> that is a whole different subject )))

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Sure; but as I said Chuck will clarify. And IMHO it's often not a

> > matter of intelligence but of education [formal or otherwise]. If you

> > think Chuck's posts are aimed at an educational level too high for this

> > list you should try reading an actual medical text. Much of it for me

> > may as well be Greek.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Sorry it has taken be so long to respond Chuck. I have tried to absorb ur

post but am a bit confused still. Before I elaborate on my confusion, I

thought I'd post what my last labs revealed. T

January 29, 2010 LAbcorp. On 60 mg Dessicated thyroid compound

Ferritin 69 Norms

10 to 291

Free T4 .80 .80

to 1.80 *LOW*

Free T3 295 230

to 420

TSH .110

..490 to 5.660 *LOW*

Vitamin

B12 553

180 to 914

Serum Folate 8.2 5.4

to 24

Testosterone 27

2-45

DHEA 360

l02-1185,.

These below were done By LabCorp In May 2010 on compounded Armour thyroid

75mg am. and 15 mg about 3 p.m.- Day of test no meds taken. Increase in

dose INCREASED my TSH, Ft3 and Ft4. Doc did a reverse T3 (But never

commented on it) because of my complaints. I know very little about the

things checked below or why they'd be important to a thyroid patient.

TSH .276 Norms .450 to 4.500 LOW

FT4 Direct .99 Norms .82 to 1.77

FT3 3.0 Norms 2.0 to 4.4

Reverse T3 238 Norms 90 to 350 ???? Means what

PTH Intact 54 Norms l5 to 65

Calcium Ion. 5.0 Norms 4.5 to 5.6

Cortisol AM 21.9 Norms 6.2 to 19.4 HIGH

Pregnenolone 43 Norms 20-150

TPO 14 " 0-34 ???? Means what?

Anti. Ab <20 " 0-20

DHEA Sul. 161.l " 18.9 to 205.00

Prolactin 11.0 " 4.8 to 23.3

_________________________________________________________________

Aug 2010 Esoterix Labs and Labcorp. on l l/2 Armour Thyroid

Testosterone TTL 22 Norms ? to 40

Free Test. 2.0 " l.l to 6.3

% Free By Dial. .9% " .8 to l.4

Aldosterone Serum 12 Adult upright 7-30 Norms (Is this too low-?)

Cortisol Serum 23 Norm 8.0 - 19.0 HIGH

DHEA Sulf. Serum 75 Females 62 to 70 yrs) Norm 10 to 115 (This

dropped from 161. in May

directly above. Is this a signifcant

drop - does it mean anything to my health?

17Alpha Hydroxy-

progesterone , Serum 36 Norm Postmeno. on HRT Not listed...Norms

listed for pre an peri.

Androstenedione, Mass

Spectrometry 67 Norm Postmeno <10 to 93 Is this on

high end? What is this?

Prolactin Serum 10 Norms 3-24

IGF-I (BL) 158 Norm61 - 70 yrs is 75-263 Mean

180 SD 51

(what on earth is this , espceially the 3 results of Range, mean and

SD?)

Creatinine, serum l.00 Norm .57 to l.00

eGFR 56 Nor . 59 Am I in trouble

- she said " Oh don't worry "

Bun Creatinine

Ration 16 Norm 8 to 27

Chromogranin A.

Serial Monitor

Chromo. A Prformed by Euro-Diagnostica Methodology = me 2 Norms 0-5

FT4 .80 Norm .82 to l.77 (this

level dropped when I dropped from l and half grains

Armour Compound to l and l/4 quarter gr)

TSH .660 .450 to 4.500

(was .276 on l l/2 gr compound Armour)

FSH 20.6 Norm for Post meno .25.8 to l34.8 Isn't

this low? Does it mean anything? Not

Note as low on lab report.

LH l0.5 Norm for Post meno 7.7 to 58.5. This

seems fairly low as well.

Calcitonin <2.0 Norm 0.0 to 5.0

Isnt this low?

On tests this new doc is ordering for 6 wks from now is TSH and FT4.

If the info this doc provided me that Armour or T4/T3 combos can cause a

reduced T4 level, why do I seem to show an increase instead when my Armour

dose is raised? I also don't understand why some of the items which fall

out of range wouldn't be so marked by the lab? Therefore, I don't know if

I need further follow up or not on any of the strange tests ordered in this

group.

A Renin test was also order, but form claims not enough serum was available

- same for my estradiol. Free cortisol serum was ordered as well, but no

frozen sample was received to perform the test.

Duffy

P.S. I know this is a lot of stuff, I just thought it might help to

determine if I have that Reverse stuff you are speaking of if you have prior

test and tests following the reverse t3 results. to compare to. think

All I really undestand is that I'm not Hasi's (??) but I am not well versed

enough to know whether I have any functioning thyroid left, or if I'm

suffering from the reverse thing.

I don't know what I'm suffering from, but I sure am tired of

it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 8:33 PM, Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

> Duffy,

>

> You wrote:

> >

> > New doc recently told me that my low Free T4 at 80 (range 82 to 180) was

> > nothing to worry about because I take Armour. ...

> > Is this real or crap?

> >

> Mostly real. Armour supplies you much less T4 than either Synthroid or a

> functioning gland would supply, so both TT4 and FT4 should be below the

> reference range. The reference range is determined for an UNMEDICATED,

> ASYMPTOMATIC population. It represents a ONE-SIGMA variation above and

> below the mean for a skewed distribution. All that means is that you

> need to interpret (and maybe calculate) some things for a person

> diagnosed with hypoT and taking medication. The reference range

> definitely does not mean anything is normal. It just gives you a range

> to compare to from a euthyroid population that does not take any thyroid

> medications.

>

> Many people on Armour do not feel well until the TSH is below the

> reference range and FT3 is at the upper end. That is " normal " for them.

>

> Now for the exception. I would still want to compare FT3 to TT3, or

> equivalently and cheaper to measure, FT4 to TT4. That would show whether

> you have a binding disorder, even if both the total and free were in the

> reference range. The ratio is what is critical.

>

> If your TSH is at or below the bottom of the reference range, and your

> frees and ratios are OK, then I would look at RT3. That is what Roni has

> struggled with. It is relatively rare, but it is another way that most

> of the tests can be in the reference range, but you still have hypoT

> symptoms.

>

> About half of the T4 you take is turned into RT3 instead of T3. If that

> percentage increases by even a small amount, the RT3 actually blocks the

> activity of T3. It not only has almost no activity of its own, it fills

> T3 receptors in the cells and prevents T3 from activating the metabolic

> pathways.

>

> 's syndrome, which we disparaged a bit recently, claimed that RT3

> itself promotes the excess conversion of T4 to RT3. Thus, it creates a

> " locked " feedback loop once it starts. Several studies have shown this

> to be impossible, but something can keep the RT3 in excess for a long

> period. Adrenal failure can do it. So can starvation. Roni doesn't seem

> to have either condition, so something else must be going on. We just

> know it helps for the extreme cases to avoid any source of T4. Some do

> well on Armour, since it is mostly T3. You might be in the same boat.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It looks to me like your FrT3 is too low (should be at top of range)

RT3 is too high (It's blocking your receptor cells from getting the proper

hormone.

This happens when your body for some reason stops converting T4 to

T3 and makes too much Rt3. It happened to me too, while I was on

Armour, which changed their formula and created this problem with

lots of people. 

 

In order to reverse this you would need to take T3 only and start at a

very low dose - 5 mcg 2xday and then increase as your body calls for

it.

 

Google Cytomel dosing on line and you will see how to do it, if your

doctor won't treat you with the T3 only. Any T4 you put into your body

now will just continue to make the RT3, and you won't be getting what

you need for health. (There is a generic Cytomel called liothyronine) If

you get that one you have to be very careful that the pharmacy only

gives you the one that you start with and doesn't change brands because

it messes up your dosing. Because Cytomel (liothyronine) is short lived

you will need 4 or 5 doses daily at some point. However that is still far

superior than being sick.

 

TPO is a Thyroid Peroxidase Antibody Test. Yours appears normal.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

> >

> > New doc recently told me that my low Free T4 at 80 (range 82 to 180) was

> > nothing to worry about because I take Armour. ...

> > Is this real or crap?

> >

> Mostly real. Armour supplies you much less T4 than either Synthroid or a

> functioning gland would supply, so both TT4 and FT4 should be below the

> reference range. The reference range is determined for an UNMEDICATED,

> ASYMPTOMATIC population. It represents a ONE-SIGMA variation above and

> below the mean for a skewed distribution. All that means is that you

> need to interpret (and maybe calculate) some things for a person

> diagnosed with hypoT and taking medication. The reference range

> definitely does not mean anything is normal. It just gives you a range

> to compare to from a euthyroid population that does not take any thyroid

> medications.

>

> Many people on Armour do not feel well until the TSH is below the

> reference range and FT3 is at the upper end. That is " normal " for them.

>

> Now for the exception. I would still want to compare FT3 to TT3, or

> equivalently and cheaper to measure, FT4 to TT4. That would show whether

> you have a binding disorder, even if both the total and free were in the

> reference range. The ratio is what is critical.

>

> If your TSH is at or below the bottom of the reference range, and your

> frees and ratios are OK, then I would look at RT3. That is what Roni has

> struggled with. It is relatively rare, but it is another way that most

> of the tests can be in the reference range, but you still have hypoT

> symptoms.

>

> About half of the T4 you take is turned into RT3 instead of T3. If that

> percentage increases by even a small amount, the RT3 actually blocks the

> activity of T3. It not only has almost no activity of its own, it fills

> T3 receptors in the cells and prevents T3 from activating the metabolic

> pathways.

>

> 's syndrome, which we disparaged a bit recently, claimed that RT3

> itself promotes the excess conversion of T4 to RT3. Thus, it creates a

> " locked " feedback loop once it starts. Several studies have shown this

> to be impossible, but something can keep the RT3 in excess for a long

> period. Adrenal failure can do it. So can starvation. Roni doesn't seem

> to have either condition, so something else must be going on. We just

> know it helps for the extreme cases to avoid any source of T4. Some do

> well on Armour, since it is mostly T3. You might be in the same boat.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry it has taken be so long to respond Chuck. I have tried to absorb ur

post but am a bit confused still. Before I elaborate on my confusion, I

thought I'd post what my last labs revealed. T

January 29, 2010 LAbcorp. On 60 mg Dessicated thyroid compound

Ferritin 69 Norms

10 to 291

Free T4 .80 .80

to 1.80 *LOW*

Free T3 295 230

to 420

TSH .110

..490 to 5.660 *LOW*

Vitamin

B12 553

180 to 914

Serum Folate 8.2 5.4

to 24

Testosterone 27

2-45

DHEA 360

l02-1185,.

These below were done By LabCorp In May 2010 on compounded Armour thyroid

75mg am. and 15 mg about 3 p.m.- Day of test no meds taken. Increase in

dose INCREASED my TSH, Ft3 and Ft4. Doc did a reverse T3 (But never

commented on it) because of my complaints. I know very little about the

things checked below or why they'd be important to a thyroid patient.

TSH .276 Norms .450 to 4.500 LOW

FT4 Direct .99 Norms .82 to 1.77

FT3 3.0 Norms 2.0 to 4.4

Reverse T3 238 Norms 90 to 350 ???? Means what

PTH Intact 54 Norms l5 to 65

Calcium Ion. 5.0 Norms 4.5 to 5.6

Cortisol AM 21.9 Norms 6.2 to 19.4 HIGH

Pregnenolone 43 Norms 20-150

TPO 14 " 0-34 ???? Means what?

Anti. Ab <20 " 0-20

DHEA Sul. 161.l " 18.9 to 205.00

Prolactin 11.0 " 4.8 to 23.3

_________________________________________________________________

Aug 2010 Esoterix Labs and Labcorp. on l l/2 Armour Thyroid

Testosterone TTL 22 Norms ? to 40

Free Test. 2.0 " l.l to 6.3

% Free By Dial. .9% " .8 to l.4

Aldosterone Serum 12 Adult upright 7-30 Norms (Is this too low-?)

Cortisol Serum 23 Norm 8.0 - 19.0 HIGH

DHEA Sulf. Serum 75 Females 62 to 70 yrs) Norm 10 to 115 (This

dropped from 161. in May

directly above. Is this a signifcant

drop - does it mean anything to my health?

17Alpha Hydroxy-

progesterone , Serum 36 Norm Postmeno. on HRT Not listed...Norms

listed for pre an peri.

Androstenedione, Mass

Spectrometry 67 Norm Postmeno <10 to 93 Is this on

high end? What is this?

Prolactin Serum 10 Norms 3-24

IGF-I (BL) 158 Norm61 - 70 yrs is 75-263 Mean

180 SD 51

(what on earth is this , espceially the 3 results of Range, mean and

SD?)

Creatinine, serum l.00 Norm .57 to l.00

eGFR 56 Nor . 59 Am I in trouble

- she said " Oh don't worry "

Bun Creatinine

Ration 16 Norm 8 to 27

Chromogranin A.

Serial Monitor

Chromo. A Prformed by Euro-Diagnostica Methodology = me 2 Norms 0-5

FT4 .80 Norm .82 to l.77 (this

level dropped when I dropped from l and half grains

Armour Compound to l and l/4 quarter gr)

TSH .660 .450 to 4.500

(was .276 on l l/2 gr compound Armour)

FSH 20.6 Norm for Post meno .25.8 to l34.8 Isn't

this low? Does it mean anything? Not

Note as low on lab report.

LH l0.5 Norm for Post meno 7.7 to 58.5. This

seems fairly low as well.

Calcitonin <2.0 Norm 0.0 to 5.0

Isnt this low?

On tests this new doc is ordering for 6 wks from now is TSH and FT4.

If the info this doc provided me that Armour or T4/T3 combos can cause a

reduced T4 level, why do I seem to show an increase instead when my Armour

dose is raised? I also don't understand why some of the items which fall

out of range wouldn't be so marked by the lab? Therefore, I don't know if

I need further follow up or not on any of the strange tests ordered in this

group.

A Renin test was also order, but form claims not enough serum was available

- same for my estradiol. Free cortisol serum was ordered as well, but no

frozen sample was received to perform the test.

Duffy

P.S. I know this is a lot of stuff, I just thought it might help to

determine if I have that Reverse stuff you are speaking of if you have prior

test and tests following the reverse t3 results. to compare to. think

All I really undestand is that I'm not Hasi's (??) but I am not well versed

enough to know whether I have any functioning thyroid left, or if I'm

suffering from the reverse thing.

I don't know what I'm suffering from, but I sure am tired of

it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- Show quoted text -

On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 8:33 PM, Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

> Duffy,

>

> You wrote:

> >

> > New doc recently told me that my low Free T4 at 80 (range 82 to 180) was

> > nothing to worry about because I take Armour. ...

> > Is this real or crap?

> >

> Mostly real. Armour supplies you much less T4 than either Synthroid or a

> functioning gland would supply, so both TT4 and FT4 should be below the

> reference range. The reference range is determined for an UNMEDICATED,

> ASYMPTOMATIC population. It represents a ONE-SIGMA variation above and

> below the mean for a skewed distribution. All that means is that you

> need to interpret (and maybe calculate) some things for a person

> diagnosed with hypoT and taking medication. The reference range

> definitely does not mean anything is normal. It just gives you a range

> to compare to from a euthyroid population that does not take any thyroid

> medications.

>

> Many people on Armour do not feel well until the TSH is below the

> reference range and FT3 is at the upper end. That is " normal " for them.

>

> Now for the exception. I would still want to compare FT3 to TT3, or

> equivalently and cheaper to measure, FT4 to TT4. That would show whether

> you have a binding disorder, even if both the total and free were in the

> reference range. The ratio is what is critical.

>

> If your TSH is at or below the bottom of the reference range, and your

> frees and ratios are OK, then I would look at RT3. That is what Roni has

> struggled with. It is relatively rare, but it is another way that most

> of the tests can be in the reference range, but you still have hypoT

> symptoms.

>

> About half of the T4 you take is turned into RT3 instead of T3. If that

> percentage increases by even a small amount, the RT3 actually blocks the

> activity of T3. It not only has almost no activity of its own, it fills

> T3 receptors in the cells and prevents T3 from activating the metabolic

> pathways.

>

> 's syndrome, which we disparaged a bit recently, claimed that RT3

> itself promotes the excess conversion of T4 to RT3. Thus, it creates a

> " locked " feedback loop once it starts. Several studies have shown this

> to be impossible, but something can keep the RT3 in excess for a long

> period. Adrenal failure can do it. So can starvation. Roni doesn't seem

> to have either condition, so something else must be going on. We just

> know it helps for the extreme cases to avoid any source of T4. Some do

> well on Armour, since it is mostly T3. You might be in the same boat.

>

> Chuck

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Duffy,

Thanks for including all the reference ranges. Your doctor is ruling out

a number of related hormone conditions, some not directly connected to

the thyroid. I would suggest you review the meanings of these results

with your doctor. You might want to first narrow down the questions by

looking at a standard description of what lab tests mean. A good example

is at:

http://www.labtestsonline.org/

In addition, I'll comment on some selected results.

You wrote:

>

> ... January 29, 2010 LAbcorp. On 60 mg Dessicated thyroid compound

>

> Ferritin 69 Norms

> 10 to 291

>

Again, a normal determination for ferritin depends on total iron. FT4

should be low on Armour. Your dose is not very high, so the low end of

the reference range makes sense.

> These below were done By LabCorp In May 2010 on compounded Armour thyroid

> 75mg am. and 15 mg about 3 p.m.- Day of test no meds taken. Increase in

> dose INCREASED my TSH, Ft3 and Ft4. Doc did a reverse T3 (But never

> commented on it) because of my complaints. I know very little about the

> things checked below or why they'd be important to a thyroid patient.

>

Keep in mind you are chasing a moving target. Your thyroid is still

active and producing, just not enough and not consistently. This

variation will continue until you require a full replacement dose.

>

>

> TSH .276 Norms .450 to 4.500 LOW

> FT4 Direct .99 Norms .82 to 1.77

> FT3 3.0 Norms 2.0 to 4.4

> Reverse T3 238 Norms 90 to 350 ???? Means what

>

If RT3 were higher, it would imply that too much of your T4 was

converting to RT3 instead of T3. This is one of the conditions that can

cause hypoT symptoms with TSH, T4, and T3 within the reference range.

> PTH Intact 54 Norms l5 to 65

>

Rules out pituitary malfunction.

>

> Calcium Ion. 5.0 Norms 4.5 to 5.6

>

Possibly connected to the other hormone tests that affect bone loss.

>

> Cortisol AM 21.9 Norms 6.2 to 19.4 HIGH

>

Cortisol fluctuates throughout the day, so this test is only meaningful

for very large excursions, most seriously at the bottom end.

> TPO 14 " 0-34 ???? Means what?

>

> Anti. Ab <20 " 0-20

>

These indicate that you do not have an ACTIVE antibody attack at the

time of the test. They do not rule out Hashimoto's, as the antibodies

can flare up and then go quiet again.

>

> ... DHEA Sulf. Serum 75 Females 62 to 70 yrs) Norm 10 to 115 (This

> dropped from 161. in May

> directly above. Is this a signifcant

> drop - does it mean anything to my health?

>

Probably not. This is a precursor for several hormones, which gradually

drops off as we age. It also fluctuates. People have speculated that

replacing DHEA helps with various hormone related functions, but there

is scant evidence to support this. There is also evidence that taking

too much can increase the risk of hormone related cancers, particularly

prostate in men.

> 17Alpha Hydroxy-

> progesterone , Serum 36 Norm Postmeno. on HRT Not listed...Norms

> listed for pre an peri.

> Androstenedione, Mass

> Spectrometry 67 Norm Postmeno <10 to 93 Is this on

> high end? What is this?

>

Another adrenal/gonadal hormone precursor, in this case for sex

hormones. Again, the low end would be worrisome for bone loss.

> Prolactin Serum 10 Norms 3-24

> IGF-I (BL) 158 Norm61 - 70 yrs is 75-263 Mean

> 180 SD 51

> (what on earth is this , espceially the 3 results of Range, mean and

> SD?)

>

Insulin-like growth factor, another endocrine hormone produced in the

liver with steroidal properties. SD is standard deviation, which is the

+/- range for 68%. Two times the SD includes 98%. This means you are

VERY " normal, " because your reading, +/- 2 SDs is still within the

reference range for the ages indicated.

>

> Creatinine, serum l.00 Norm .57 to l.00

> eGFR 56 Nor . 59 Am I in trouble

> - she said " Oh don't worry "

> Bun Creatinine

> Ration 16 Norm 8 to 27

>

She's right. The ratio (blood urea nitrogen or BUN to creatinine) is

more meaningful. This just says your kidneys are clearing wastes

properly, and that you are not bleeding internally.

> ...FSH 20.6 Norm for Post meno .25.8 to l34.8 Isn't

> this low? Does it mean anything? Not

>

> Note as low on lab report.

> LH l0.5 Norm for Post meno 7.7 to 58.5. This

> seems fairly low as well.

> Calcitonin <2.0 Norm 0.0 to 5.0

> Isnt this low?

>

Nothing to worry about. These feedback-loop hormones are also ruling out

certain pituitary and thyroid cancers.

>

> On tests this new doc is ordering for 6 wks from now is TSH and FT4.

>

> If the info this doc provided me that Armour or T4/T3 combos can cause a

> reduced T4 level, why do I seem to show an increase instead when my Armour

> dose is raised?

>

Armour still contains T4, just not as much as you would get from a pure

T4 medication. Since you get a direct supply of T3 from the Armour, you

do not need to maintain as much T4 in storage in the blood.

> I also don't understand why some of the items which fall

> out of range wouldn't be so marked by the lab? Therefore, I don't know if

> I need further follow up or not on any of the strange tests ordered in

> this

> group.

>

I would say not. Again, ask your doctor if you still have worries about

any specific test. Many of them really don't mean much unless you are

WAY of the range. Others can be significant in combinations that are all

within the ranges.

>

>

> A Renin test was also order, but form claims not enough serum was

> available

> - same for my estradiol. Free cortisol serum was ordered as well, but no

> frozen sample was received to perform the test.

>

Your doctor is just eliminating unlikely but potentially complicating

conditions. This may seem like fishing or a shotgun approach, but I

would think of it more as thoroughness.

>

> ... I don't know what I'm suffering from, but I sure am tired of

> it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

Most likely you are still suffering from variability associated with the

onset of hypoT. This should improve when you get to a full replacement

dose. If not, then more tests would be warranted.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Roni,

You wrote:

>

> It looks to me like your FrT3 is too low (should be at top of range)

> RT3 is too high (It's blocking your receptor cells from getting the proper

> hormone....

>

I would be more inclined to suspect a binding issue, based on the two

cortisol readings, although that is also a subtle problem. The RT3 is in

the middle of both ranges, and those were both old readings, when the

Armour dose was low, and there was still some T4 coming from the thyroid

itself. While the FT3 readings could be higher, I would want to compare

the frees (FT3 and FT4) with their corresponding totals (TT3 and TT4).

To rule out excess binding, a thyroglobulin test would be helpful.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Yes, it would. I think since there was a small amount of T4 coming in that the

FT3 level

was too high. I know how sick I was with a level about 2/3-3/4 up the range.

Once I switched to T3 only each time they tried with a very small amount of T4,

I would get sick agian, and had to stop it. I really wished I could have some of

the T4 because it's more stabilizing, but I couldn't do it.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

> It looks to me like your FrT3 is too low (should be at top of range)

> RT3 is too high (It's blocking your receptor cells from getting the proper

> hormone....

>

I would be more inclined to suspect a binding issue, based on the two

cortisol readings, although that is also a subtle problem. The RT3 is in

the middle of both ranges, and those were both old readings, when the

Armour dose was low, and there was still some T4 coming from the thyroid

itself. While the FT3 readings could be higher, I would want to compare

the frees (FT3 and FT4) with their corresponding totals (TT3 and TT4).

To rule out excess binding, a thyroglobulin test would be helpful.

Chuck

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