Re: Temperature As A Tool

[Guest guest]

Yes, it is the only way that I could be diagnosed with subclinical

Hypothyrodism. And, my lab results have always read normal, I certainly

wouldn't substitute because I do have regular lab readings done as well.

Tami

>

> Is temperature a reliable tool in managing thyroid regardless of lab readings?

>

[Guest guest]

What if your labs are flagged below normal ranges BUT your temps are staying

normal?

> >

> > Is temperature a reliable tool in managing thyroid regardless of lab

readings?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

On 9/10/2010 7:38 AM, A wrote:

>

> Is temperature a reliable tool in managing thyroid regardless of lab

> readings?

>

This depends on what you mean by reliable. Other things influence basal

or core body temperatures besides thyroid hormones, including hunger,

sleep deprivation, drugs, alcohol, viral or bacterial infection, many

illnesses or injuries, and even just time of day. If you can control for

all the other factors, then extremes of body temperature could indicate

something. The problem is that we really need to stay within a pretty

tight window to be healthy.

So, consistent hypothermia might reliably get you into the doctor's

office, but I would not use body temperature to titrate a T4 dose. A lot

of people do recommend it for adjusting Armour doses, but I am skeptical

about the safety of the fairly large fluctuations in thyroid levels,

which a grain or more would cause.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

I have flagged low in Free T4 for most of this year. I was on 90mg of Armour

then self-lowered my dose to 75mg in July due to severe hot flashes, severe body

heat (my husband said you could cook an egg anywhere on my body), severe

anxiety, not sleeping at night, restlessness feelings, etc. My Free T4 labs all

year have been, using a range of 0.93 to 1.70, as follows:

09/09 = 0.84; 11/09 = 0.81; 06/10 = 0.83; and 07/10 = 0.81

Morning temps on the 90mg were 98.6 with even higher afternoon temps (99 to high

99s). When I reduced my dose, the above issues resolved and my temp only

dropped to 98.2 to 98.4 in the mornings; and my afternoon temps lowered to 98.6

with an occasional 99+ here and there.

I know if I tested right now, my labs would be even lower. I do not know if I

should use labs or symptoms for my dose.

> >

> > Is temperature a reliable tool in managing thyroid regardless of lab

> > readings?

> >

> This depends on what you mean by reliable. Other things influence basal

> or core body temperatures besides thyroid hormones, including hunger,

> sleep deprivation, drugs, alcohol, viral or bacterial infection, many

> illnesses or injuries, and even just time of day. If you can control for

> all the other factors, then extremes of body temperature could indicate

> something. The problem is that we really need to stay within a pretty

> tight window to be healthy.

>

> So, consistent hypothermia might reliably get you into the doctor's

> office, but I would not use body temperature to titrate a T4 dose. A lot

> of people do recommend it for adjusting Armour doses, but I am skeptical

> about the safety of the fairly large fluctuations in thyroid levels,

> which a grain or more would cause.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

My last labs were as follows:

July 2010:

Free T4 0.81 range 0.93 to 1.70

TSH 1.74 range 0.270 to 4.20

T3 31.0 range 30.0 to 39.0

T4 6.6 range 4.7 to 13.3

Estradiol E26 141 range <30 to 83

FSH 5.6 range 2.5 to 10.2

LH 7.6 range 1.9 to 12.5

Progesteron 0.39 range 0.2 to 1.5

Testosterone 38 range 20 to 80

I think I put my right ranges in for the female hormones (follicular) - I have

been have erratic periods for over a year - 2 days here, regular period there,

no period over here, and when I tested on the female hormones, I was already day

50 between periods, with a final 'count' of 75 during this past cycle.

June 2010

Free T4 0.83 range 0.93 to 1.70

TSH 0.77 range 0.270 to 4.20

Free T3 2.60 range 2.00 to 4.40

November 2009

Free T4 0.81 range 0.93 to 1.70

TSH 2.95 range 0.270 to 4.20

I also had a TSH done in December 2009 and it was 0.68 with the same ranges

listed above. My TSH has been on the lower side overall but my Free T4 has

consistently flagged low.

I always test fasting if I am testing for FT3 - I did not fast on this last test

because Free T3 wasn't being tested.

I was on 90mg of Armour for all of these tests but self lowered to 75mg in July

after my tests due to severe hot flashes, severe body heat, severe anxiety, not

sleeping, restless, higher morning AND afternoon temps - using a mercury

thermometer. When I lowered, the above issues resolved. The only one that has

surfaced - not sure if it is peri or thyroid - is a worsen of menstrual

irregularities. I have been in peri for over 5 years, with all the classic

symptoms including shorten or longer cycles, heavy bleeding, etc. My last

'period' was very different - 16 days of spotting - spot for an hour, be clear

for several, spot for two hours and repeat the cycle - THEN my period came, very

heavy, very long with cramps, clots - for 8 days plus 1 cleanout day - I didn't

get too concerned because my mother had the same symptoms of irregularity at my

age (47 almost 48) when she went through peri. I know that lower thyroid

readings can cause irregularities and I do not know if some of this last period

was due to that or due to getting near the end of my peri.

I have tried raising in the past my Armour, first to 120mg then to 105mg, but

was unable to tolerate those doses - I felt very hyper despite normal lab

readings - so the doctor felt 90mg would have to be my dose. I have not talked

with my doctor about my self lowered dose - he is a strictly by the lab type -

and AM considering raising my dose back up to 90mg now that the season is

changing. But the thing on temperature has always been a flag for me - even

with lower doses AND lower labs, my temp is remaining at normal or higher.

I also realize that peri can throw your thyroid into confusion and vise versa -

so I honestly do not know which to treat or how to treat - I do know that I

absolutely HATE the feelings of hyper with the bouncing off the wall feeling.

Have I shot myself in the foot by lowering my dose based on symptoms and temps,

or am I in a normal peri transition?

>

> A, I don't know what tests you've had, but there is a range after each of your

individual results.

> The number of your result in each of those categories tells us where you are.

The temps help

> verify the evaluation. In order to tell what is actually going on in your

thyroid you will need a

> Free T3, FreeT4, ReverseT3 and TSH, all after a 12 hour fast with  no

medication (even thyroid)

> before the blood draw that morning. I find that 10 oclock works for me. It's

not to early, and I don't have to rush and I take the thyroid immediately after

the test. It is, however, a good idea to dring a glass of water befor you go so

your veins are hydrated and the test goes easier.

>  

>

>

>  

> <>Roni

[Guest guest]

I am taking a basal via mouth first thing in the morning before getting out of

bed with a mercury thermometer. Average temp is 98.2 to 98.4 (sometimes reading

of 98.6).

>

> Are you taking a basal (underarm) temperature first thing in the morning when

> you are relaxed and using either a mercury thermometer for 10 minutes or the

new

> ones that they have that aren't digital?

>

> Tami

>

[Guest guest]

hmm!! This is interesting. When I was hyper my morning temp was around 98.6,

couldn't sleep, felt hot all the time, couldn't sit still. They also went up to

99 or so by late morning, close to noon.At the time think my T3 was too high.

Betty

> > >

> > > Is temperature a reliable tool in managing thyroid regardless of lab

> > > readings?

> > >

> > This depends on what you mean by reliable. Other things influence basal

> > or core body temperatures besides thyroid hormones, including hunger,

> > sleep deprivation, drugs, alcohol, viral or bacterial infection, many

> > illnesses or injuries, and even just time of day. If you can control for

> > all the other factors, then extremes of body temperature could indicate

> > something. The problem is that we really need to stay within a pretty

> > tight window to be healthy.

> >

> > So, consistent hypothermia might reliably get you into the doctor's

> > office, but I would not use body temperature to titrate a T4 dose. A lot

> > of people do recommend it for adjusting Armour doses, but I am skeptical

> > about the safety of the fairly large fluctuations in thyroid levels,

> > which a grain or more would cause.

> >

> > Chuck

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

I have tested four times for antibodies (and was diagnosed with Hashi's 25 +

years ago) - the most recent was July 2010 - my thyroid peroxidase as flagged

high with >1000 with a range of 0.0 t0 35.0 - when I was tested a year earlier -

I had that same reading.

So, 75mg is not a bad dose considering the situation??

> >

> > My last labs were as follows:

> >

> > July 2010:

> > Free T4 0.81 range 0.93 to 1.70

> > TSH 1.74 range 0.270 to 4.20

> > T3 31.0 range 30.0 to 39.0

> > T4 6.6 range 4.7 to 13.3

> >

>

> These suggest a binding problem. With few exceptions, FT4/TT4 = FT3/TT3.

> Your free fraction is low, even though the totals are in range. Very few

> doctors recognize adrenal insufficiency as a treatable condition, but

> consistently low corticosteroids can increase binding. So can some

> drugs. You might want to ask your doctor about testing thyroglobulin and

> albumin. A lot of people on this list have reported low doses of

> hydrocortisone help with this.

>

> The June readings are consistent with hyperT, so cutting back certainly

> made sense. You might want to try a dose in between 75 and 90 or stay

> with 75 until other symptoms crop up. Then again, 90 mg is modest for

> Armour, so your condition may be progressing and thus could eventually

> demand a return to 90 or even higher. As Hashimoto's progresses, it

> sometimes goes through temporary binding phases. This could well be

> temporary.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

That is why I reduced my meds myself - despite the low labs, I felt so hyper

that I thought I would crawl out of my skin - even I couldn't stand myself. I

had one previous doctor tell me to reduce (not my current doc) and do it via

symptoms - he even commented that was the way they USED to do it before labs -

make 100% sense. I felt great after I reduced - just an occasional afternoon

slump which usually went away. After this past menstrual issue - I was

wondering if that could related or if it was simply concidence that it all

happened at the same time. One weird thing that happened during this cycle was

that I lost 6 pounds in one week - does NOT lose weight like that - even

if she tried. The ole body just seems in a confused state and that's why I am

trying to throw out ideas without my current doc's help - all he would do is

look at labs.

THANKS.

>

> Personally I'd use temps and how you feel. Sounds like you are going into a

bit

> of HyperT.

>

>

> All the best,

> Tami

> http://www.hypothyroidblog.com

>

[Guest guest]

I feel overall good - just a couple things cropping up - this menstrual issue;

occasional afternoon slump (though NOT always); am calmer (as calm as I can ever

be ); cooler but not cold (comfortable would be a good word); hair is staying

even keel; so are nails. Nothing more out of the ordinary that I usually have -

but definitely sleeping well - haven't done that for many a month.

I guess I will keep on this same dose for a bit, as Chuck and you all have

commented, and see if any major issues crop up.

THANKS.

>

> I think you are doing well to use both. Each person is a bit different and

what will work for one doesn't necessarily work for another, so the two pronged

method you are using is good. The third prong on that fork should be how you are

feeling. If you are feeling good, sleeping well, hair growing properly and

looking good, nails the same, skin smooth and not plagued with acne, these are

all symptoms that are very easily noticed. If they are doing well and the labs

and temps say the same thing you're AOK.

>

>

> <>Roni

> Immortality exists!

> It's called knowledge!

>  

[Guest guest]

Betty,

That's exactly how I felt but my FT3 was on the lower end of normal - which made

not a bit of sense to me. My FT4 also flagged low but my TSH was all over the

place - one time low, one time high, back and forth. But yes, I felt hyper -

even on the lower dose of 90mg - Lord, you can only imagine what I felt like on

105 and 120mg. I have been laying some of this onto Hashi's since my antibodies

are still high and on perimenopause - that's why I am trying to get others

feedback to see if I am on the right thinking track or if I have jumped the

track a long time ago and am just now realizing it, he, he.

>

> hmm!! This is interesting. When I was hyper my morning temp was around 98.6,

couldn't sleep, felt hot all the time, couldn't sit still. They also went up to

99 or so by late morning, close to noon.At the time think my T3 was too high.

>

> Betty

[Guest guest]

No problem on jumping in - I like to hear about others situations - I read of

people on high doses yet I am unable to even maintain 90mg - sheesh. I, too,

was having PVCs earlier in the year when I tried the 105mg of Armour, took

myself down to 90mg, they stopped somewhat but have really subsided now that I

am down to 75mg. Like you, I was flagging low or low normal on some labs, some

labs were normal - they just didn't jive with the symptoms - I thought I was

super weird. It IS frustrating. I agree that everyone is different and when we

try to imitate others doses, we can get in troule. I don't want to hurt myself

by going down too much but my body just seems to have issues when I go very

high. I don't any solutions to your situations but maybe someone will. Hope it

works out for you soon.

>

> Hope you don't mind my jumping in here, but these posts are interesting. Some

> parts sound like me (especially the frustration). My temps are always low

> (97.5) even when my labs are normal. When my labs are normal and even when my

> labs are low, I feel horribly hyper. I ended up in the hospital in May with

> tachycardia and arrythmia on 2 1/2 grains of compounded NDT with labs that

were

> only midrange for FT3 and lower third for FT4. My tsh was .01 so of course,

the

> allopathic docs at the hospital had a fit and took me off thyroid completely.

> After 6 weeks, I had a tsh of 9, but felt a lot less hyper.... and all the

> heart stuff went away quickly with getting off thyroid meds. Now I'm on only

> 25 mcg of synthroid and still feel less hyper. Any higher (no matter whether

> it's an Armour type med or a synthetic) and I feel horribly hyper, lose my

> ability to hold still and get very sensitive to fluorescent lights and

> electrical grids in general. (Try getting any Dr. to pay attention to that

> mess!) My legs are VERY weak whether I'm on no meds or a lot. I've seen

pretty

> much every specialty there is and done all the alternative stuff (acupuncture

> etc) and no luck.......I hate thyroids! Amy

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Chuck - you have made me feel better in my decision to lower for awhile,

and I will be on the lookout for hypo issues that will require the increase back

up to 90mg.

You are a jewel - thanks again.

> >

> > I have tested four times for antibodies (and was diagnosed with

> > Hashi's 25 + years ago) - the most recent was July 2010 - my thyroid

> > peroxidase as flagged high with >1000 with a range of 0.0 t0 35.0 -

> > when I was tested a year earlier - I had that same reading.

> >

> > So, 75mg is not a bad dose considering the situation??

> >

> Not bad at all. The high TPO suggests that your dose may be changing,

> though. With Hashi's it can go up or down for awhile. Eventually, when

> all thyroid function is destroyed, the antibodies will go back down, and

> you will get a stable dose requirement at a full replacement level. Just

> be prepared for confusing indications until that happens.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

I agree, Amy - found those answers earlier and talked with one old time doc that

stated I would be opening up a huge hornet's nest if I started playing with

adrenals without knowing a whole bunch about the trueness of adrenals and such.

And the ferritin is an iffy thing for me - it was actually on the rise rapidly

without supplements before I had this last menstrual period - I will assume it

has slide down because of the amount of blood I lost - but I am also assuming it

will raise back up just based on my diet.

I found the PVCs were worst when I was on 105mg Armour then reduced somewhat on

90mg then all but went away on 75mg. Even without the PVCs, like you, I was

hyper although the labs said I wasn't. I had all the symptoms AND was losing

weight - what more proof did I need?

Again, I am assuming that some of my hormone issues are related to peri - my

female hormones are all over the charts and it makes sense that since one is

connected to the other - that my thyroid hormones are all over the place - that

combined with Hashi antibodies.

>

> -- There are forums where the automatic answer to anyone who is having

> trouble tolerating thyroid meds is adrenal fatigue -- and barring that, they

> will say that ferritin needs to be at least 70. Then they claim anyone can do

> the 3 to 6 grains of NDT that most of them are on. I did have adrenal fatigue

> in the beginning so I thought maybe they were right -- but that didn't turn

out

> to be true for me. My ferritin is fine and my cortisol levels are normal now

> all day long -- still can't tolerate high doses of thyroid meds. 2 1/2 grains

> was way too high for me, no matter what my labs said. I was HYPER HYPER

HYPER.

> Like you, my labs go all over the place and I also have hashi's. Amy : )

[Guest guest]

Even though you were answering Amy, I am glad you brought that up about 1 grain

roughly equals 100 mcg of Synthroid - that is what I have been basing my

reduction on - so 75mg of Armour is roughly equal to 125 mcg of Synthroid, give

or take - and my previous Synthroid dose was 112 mcg which I did well on. I was

on 150 mcg of Synthroid for a short bit but was backed down until I stayed at

the 112 mcg dosage - so I definitely feel more comfortable with the rough dose

of 75mg (or 125 mcg equal) that I am maintaining currently on Armour. Hope I

didn't make that too confusing.

> >

> > .... 2 1/2 grains

> > was way too high for me, no matter what my labs said. I was HYPER

> > HYPER HYPER.

> >

> Each grain of Armour is nominally equivalent to 100 mcg of T4. I don't

> know anyone that is comfortable on 250 mcg of T4. I suspect the

> difference has to do with absorption. Some people can't absorb or

> convert the T4 in Armour, so they need much more than someone who can.

> If you go hyperT on Armour, you probably are one of the majority of

> people who do well on straight T4. Depending on where you live, that

> could be much cheaper for you.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

Yea, it was great to lose 6 lbs but it all happened during that heavy 8 day

period - do not know how THAT figured in - maybe water weight after a 75 day

span between periods - but I'll take what I can get )) though I could have

done without all the blood loss. That, among other things, is what is confusing

about all these changes - NOTHING is as the text books state right now - if it

says black, then I'm white; if it says green, I'm purple - go figure.

>

> Oh I'd love to lose 6 lbs in one week! ;-)

>

> I do know that your temperature is supposed to be tested during your menstrual

> cycle. For an experiment I'm going to test myself every morning for a month

> just to see what happens with my temperature, should be interesting. Seems

like

> with the weight loss that your body was happy and balanced since you didn't

lose

> weight when either HyperT or HypoT.

>

>

> Let me know how it goes!

>

> All the best,

> Tami

> http://www.hypothyroidblog.com

>

[Guest guest]

HA - I agree - you know, I am not sure what NORMAL is anymore - but maybe it

will find me again.

> >

> > Thanks, Chuck - you have made me feel better in my decision to lower

> > for awhile, and I will be on the lookout for hypo issues that will

> > require the increase back up to 90mg.

> >

> You are most welcome. I hope you stabilize soon, so you can spend less

> time watching your symptoms.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

If you go to some of the more " far out " groups that promote one

particular remedy or another you may well be ridiculed if you suggest

you do not do well on that particular concoction and that you either do

worse on it or better on something else. The attacks can get quite

viralent and some people have reported getting kicked off of lists in

such cases.

One of the things that gets pointed out over and over here is that while

most do well on T4 alone there are quite a number who do not. AND the

responses of one person to any medication may well be different from

others. IOW, we're all different. I've personally confounded my

doctors more than once with my reported responses to medications. I've

had medications work in a manner that my doctor swore they could not

possibly do; and I've had others NOT work when the same medication that

worked in one form did not work in another that was supposedly more

effective.

Regards,

..

..

> Posted by: " A " adinterests@...

>

<mailto:adinterests@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Temperature%20As%20A%20Tool>

> adinterests <adinterests>

>

>

> Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:42 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> Yea, it was great to lose 6 lbs but it all happened during that heavy

> 8 day period - do not know how THAT figured in - maybe water weight

> after a 75 day span between periods - but I'll take what I can get

> )) though I could have done without all the blood loss. That, among

> other things, is what is confusing about all these changes - NOTHING

> is as the text books state right now - if it says black, then I'm

> white; if it says green, I'm purple - go figure.

>

>