Alternative Opinions. Was: Salt

[Guest guest]

, whatever you say about this does not change the fact that the pain is too

bad to stay in bed, or sitting in my chair. I HAVE to get up and stand on the

foot. No rationalization will change that. Trust me, it's my foot. I'm not

telling you you're wrong about your body, don't tell me that I am wrong about

mine. Deal?

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: Alternative Opinions. Was: Salt

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 4:09 PM

>

> I'll do about the same thing with cramps in a major muscle group;

> partially because I'm not sure the cramp couldn't be strong enough to

> cause tendon or ligament damage.

>

> In the past I would do the same thing for any kind of a cramp.  But I

> will often try to observe exactly what is going on with me, and I tried

> that with a foot cramp.  I observed the increasing pain, and noted that

> it was pretty much a pressure/burning sensation.  I noticed that if I

> choose to identify it more as a pressure and realize there is no

> probable damage imminent that it was not unbearable to simply observe it

> as it increased.  At some point it leveled off, then after a time

> declined and went away.  There tends to be an extremely relaxed feeling

> in my foot afterwards.

>

> In a way it's still very painful; but I now have my reaction to that

> pain under conscious control; to the point that it it not particularly

> unpleasant anymore.  Of course I could not react like that to the pain

> of an injury or illness; only something I can define as harmless.

>

>

> .

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Beverly,

You wrote:

> ... It's BS only if it doesn't work. If it works, it's not

> BS.

So, name a single credible study that has ever showed that homeopathy

works.

There have been many tests that showed it doesn't. Congress even set up

a special office at the NHS to investigate claims about alternative

approaches. After several years, they have only found a few things that

pass real tests. Homeopathy definitely isn't among them.

By your definition, that makes it BS.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

I'm not trying to tell you what you experience; I specifically stated

that there is no way to know if what I experience is the same or similar

to what you experience. What I did suggest you're incorrect on is in

saying that a cramp won't eventually go away if you take no action. The

mechanics of how muscle contractions and cramps works means a cramp

cannot continue at high level indefinitely. Or else I have no

understanding at all as to how muscle contractions actually work.

An example: Suppose thieves break into your home and tie you up so that

you cannot even wiggle and after ransacking your house leave you like

that. Then you get a cramp in your foot and no one responds to your

yells. What do you think would happen?

Regards,

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

>

<mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Alternative%20Opinions%2E%20%20\

Was%3A%20Salt>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

>

> Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:51 pm (PST)

>

>

>

> , whatever you say about this does not change the fact that the

> pain is too bad to stay in bed, or sitting in my chair. I HAVE to get

> up and stand on the foot. No rationalization will change that. Trust

> me, it's my foot. I'm not telling you you're wrong about your body,

> don't tell me that I am wrong about mine. Deal?

>

> <>Roni

> Immortality exists!

> It's called knowledge!

>

> Just because something isn't seen

> doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: Alternative Opinions. Was: Salt

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:15 PM

>

> Not true, Roni. Every cramp will go away eventually, with no action on

> your part.

>

> Cramps are excessive and uncontrolled contractions of muscle cells.

> Such excessive contractions will soon tire the cells to the point that

> they can no longer respond to the signals that are causing them to

> contract uncontrollably. At that point the cramp will diminish and then

> disappear. You can no more maintain a cramp indefinitely than you can

> continue to lift a heavy weight repeatedly at your extreme limits.

>

> In 69 years I've had a lot of cramps in a lot of muscle groups. There's

> no way even theoretically to determine whether what I experience is the

> same or similar to what you experience.

>

> As there are different degrees of pain there are also different degrees

> of pain tolerance. I don't think mine is typically very high, except is

> a very few cases where I'm able to observe the pain, define it, and

> ascertain that it is most likely harmless.

>

> I'm pretty ignorant as to the specifics of pain management but I'll be

> surprised if they don't use some of the same things.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, " Congress " ...........................

> > ... It's BS only if it doesn't work. If it works, it's not

> > BS.

>

> So, name a single credible study that has ever showed that homeopathy

> works.

>

> There have been many tests that showed it doesn't. Congress even set up

> a special office at the NHS to investigate claims about alternative

> approaches. After several years, they have only found a few things that

> pass real tests. Homeopathy definitely isn't among them.

>

> By your definition, that makes it BS.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

I'd be screaming more and hurting more too. However, I would expect you or Chuck

to jump in and do something to help, as you two always do. I'd expect you to

call 911 and get me somebody to release me. LOL!

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: Alternative Opinions. Was: Salt

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:15 PM

>

> Not true, Roni.  Every cramp will go away eventually, with no action on

> your part.

>

> Cramps are excessive and uncontrolled contractions of muscle cells.

> Such excessive contractions will soon tire the cells to the point that

> they can no longer respond to the signals that are causing them to

> contract uncontrollably.  At that point the cramp will diminish and then

> disappear.  You can no more maintain a cramp indefinitely than you can

> continue to lift a heavy weight repeatedly at your extreme limits.

>

> In 69 years I've had a lot of cramps in a lot of muscle groups.  There's

> no way even theoretically to determine whether what I experience is the

> same or similar to what you experience.

>

> As there are different degrees of pain there are also different degrees

> of pain tolerance.  I don't think mine is typically very high, except is

> a very few cases where I'm able to observe the pain, define it, and

> ascertain that it is most likely harmless.

>

> I'm pretty ignorant as to the specifics of pain management but I'll be

> surprised if they don't use some of the same things.

>

>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I have to jump in here with my two cents. Generally speaking, after trying some

homeopathic products for this or that many years ago and finding no relief from

them at all, I abandoned the

effort.

 

Because of now having atrial fibrillation (heart condition) which is brought on

by certain triggers, I have had to abandon all antihistamines and decongestants

that I used to use for colds, and things like that. Now all I use is saline, and

a (believe it or not) homeopathic otc nasal spray that I buy at Walgreen's. It

is called (unimaginatively) Sinus and Allergy Relief by Bio Allers.

 

Lo and behold, I find that it does help clear my nasal passages when I use it. I

alternate it with the saline spray, which I use first, and then this one to help

dry up my nasal passages so that I'm not clutching a tissue constantly.

 

I guess this would be a case of I didn't expect it to work, I don't know why it

works, but it works!

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: Beverly53 <beebie10@...>

Subject: Re:Alternative Opinions. Was: Salt

hypothyroidism

Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 10:15 AM

Oh, " Congress " ...........................

> >  ... It's BS only if it doesn't work. If it works, it's not

> > BS.

>

> So, name a single credible study that has ever showed that homeopathy

> works.

>

> There have been many tests that showed it doesn't. Congress even set up

> a special office at the NHS to investigate claims about alternative

> approaches. After several years, they have only found a few things that

> pass real tests. Homeopathy definitely isn't among them.

>

> By your definition, that makes it BS.

>

> Chuck

>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Homeopathy enjoys its peculiar status due to an act of Congress. In

1938 a homeopathic physician who was also a senator pushed through the

1938 Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act. That act recognizes all

substances in the " Homeopathic Pharmacopeia of the United States " as drugs.

Strangely enough the FDA does not require such " drugs " to undergo any

research demonstrating effacy whatsoever.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Beverly53 " beebie10@...

>

<mailto:beebie10@...?Subject=%20Re%3AAlternative%20Opinions%2E%20%20Was%3A\

%20Salt>

> beebie10 <beebie10>

>

>

> Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:17 am (PST)

>

>

>

> Oh, " Congress " ..

> .........................

>

>

> > > ... It's BS only if it doesn't work. If it works, it's not

> > > BS.

> >

> > So, name a single credible study that has ever showed that homeopathy

> > works.

> >

> > There have been many tests that showed it doesn't. Congress even set up

> > a special office at the NHS to investigate claims about alternative

> > approaches. After several years, they have only found a few things that

> > pass real tests. Homeopathy definitely isn't among them.

> >

> > By your definition, that makes it BS.

> >

> > Chuck

> >

[Guest guest]

Beverly53 wrote:

>

>

> Oh, " Congress " ...........................

Sorry, I got my acronyms jumbled. Congress opened the alternative

medicine office at the NIH. NHS is in the U.K.

Yes, Congress once again spent a lot of money testing claims with

minimal potential.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

What is the strength of what you're taking? It will be something like

30C or 30X or maybe 200C or similar.

With most homeopathic remedies you do not get even a single molecule of

the " active ingredient " . In which case you could be reacting to the

solvent.

Thanks,

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

>

<mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Alternative%20Opinions%2E%20%20\

Was%3A%20Salt>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

>

> Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:08 pm (PST)

>

>

>

> I have to jump in here with my two cents. Generally speaking, after

> trying some homeopathic products for this or that many years ago and

> finding no relief from them at all, I abandoned the

> effort.

>

> Because of now having atrial fibrillation (heart condition) which is

> brought on by certain triggers, I have had to abandon all

> antihistamines and decongestants that I used to use for colds, and

> things like that. Now all I use is saline, and a (believe it or not)

> homeopathic otc nasal spray that I buy at Walgreen's. It is called

> (unimaginatively) Sinus and Allergy Relief by Bio Allers.

>

> Lo and behold, I find that it does help clear my nasal passages when I

> use it. I alternate it with the saline spray, which I use first, and

> then this one to help dry up my nasal passages so that I'm not

> clutching a tissue constantly.

>

> I guess this would be a case of I didn't expect it to work, I don't

> know why it works, but it works!

>

> <>Roni

> Immortality exists!

> It's called knowledge!

>

> Just because something isn't seen

> doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

>

>

> From: Beverly53 <beebie10@... <mailto:beebie10%40>>

> Subject: Re:Alternative Opinions. Was: Salt

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 10:15 AM

>

> Oh, " Congress " ..

> .........................

>

>

> > > ... It's BS only if it doesn't work. If it works, it's not

> > > BS.

> >

> > So, name a single credible study that has ever showed that homeopathy

> > works.

> >

> > There have been many tests that showed it doesn't. Congress even set up

> > a special office at the NHS to investigate claims about alternative

> > approaches. After several years, they have only found a few things that

> > pass real tests. Homeopathy definitely isn't among them.

> >

> > By your definition, that makes it BS.

> >

> > Chuck

[Guest guest]

, there are several things listed on the label, but the print is very small

and I have a splitting headache. I'll try to copy it tomorrow.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

> From: Beverly53 <beebie10@... <mailto:beebie10%40>>

> Subject: Re:Alternative Opinions. Was: Salt

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 10:15 AM

>

> Oh, " Congress " ..

> .........................

>

>

> > >  ... It's BS only if it doesn't work. If it works, it's not

> > > BS.

> >

> > So, name a single credible study that has ever showed that homeopathy

> > works.

> >

> > There have been many tests that showed it doesn't. Congress even set up

> > a special office at the NHS to investigate claims about alternative

> > approaches. After several years, they have only found a few things that

> > pass real tests. Homeopathy definitely isn't among them.

> >

> > By your definition, that makes it BS.

> >

> > Chuck

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Roni, I also have found many homeopathic remedies that worked for me. I'm glad

the Bio-Allers worked for you.

The nice part about homeopathic remedies is that, even if they don't help, they

won't hurt you, unlike most allopathic medicines which have side effects.

Anyway, I wish you luck with this group. I did give it a try, but it was just

too exhausting and stressful, which I don't need right now. All I know is that

it is too difficult to want to share, when everytime one shares, one's opinions

are put through the wringer. This is not a good environment.

But you seem nice. Good luck to you.

Beverly

> .

>

> >

> >

> >

> > I have to jump in here with my two cents. Generally speaking, after

> > trying some homeopathic products for this or that many years ago and

> > finding no relief from them at all, I abandoned the

> > effort.

> >

> > Because of now having atrial fibrillation (heart condition) which is

> > brought on by certain triggers, I have had to abandon all

> > antihistamines and decongestants that I used to use for colds, and

> > things like that. Now all I use is saline, and a (believe it or not)

> > homeopathic otc nasal spray that I buy at Walgreen's. It is called

> > (unimaginatively) Sinus and Allergy Relief by Bio Allers.

> >

> > Lo and behold, I find that it does help clear my nasal passages when I

> > use it. I alternate it with the saline spray, which I use first,

[Guest guest]

Thank you for that. Sorry you feel that you have to leave, but if that's what

you have to do, it's what you have to do. 

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: Beverly53 <beebie10@...>

Subject: Re: Alternative Opinions. Was: Salt

hypothyroidism

Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 9:55 PM

Roni, I also have found many homeopathic remedies that worked for me.  I'm glad

the Bio-Allers worked for you. 

The nice part about homeopathic remedies is that, even if they don't help, they

won't hurt you, unlike most allopathic medicines which have side effects.

Anyway, I wish you luck with this group. I did give it a try, but it was just

too exhausting and stressful, which I don't need right now.  All I know is that

it is too difficult to want to share, when everytime one shares, one's opinions

are put through the wringer.  This is not a good environment.

But you seem nice.  Good luck to you.

Beverly

> .

>

> >

> >

> >

> > I have to jump in here with my two cents. Generally speaking, after

> > trying some homeopathic products for this or that many years ago and

> > finding no relief from them at all, I abandoned the

> > effort.

> >

> > Because of now having atrial fibrillation (heart condition) which is

> > brought on by certain triggers, I have had to abandon all

> > antihistamines and decongestants that I used to use for colds, and

> > things like that. Now all I use is saline, and a (believe it or not)

> > homeopathic otc nasal spray that I buy at Walgreen's. It is called

> > (unimaginatively) Sinus and Allergy Relief by Bio Allers.

> >

> > Lo and behold, I find that it does help clear my nasal passages when I

> > use it. I alternate it with the saline spray, which I use first,

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I agree; homeopathics have worked for my family. The difficult thing is

knowing this remedy to use in each situation and with each person. The

studies that have been conducted on homeopathics are not so helpful because

the researchers have most likely had no prior expertise in knowing how to do

this. The combination products have been more successful with our family

because it removes a great deal of this " which one to choose? " factor.

I would love to see a valid study conducted with either experienced

homeopaths making specific remedy decisions for the subjects of the study,

or with the use of combination products. This would be much more informative

and helpful than anything that has come out recently proclaiming homeopathy

to be useless. Knowing which remedy to administer to each patient in each

situation is an art. As a beginner, the failure rate is very high. I found

myself buying several texts on the topic to assist myself in specifically

figuring out which remedy to use. I find it extremely hard to believe that

researchers took the amount of trouble that I did, to make certain their

remedy for each study subject was the relevant one. Even so, the choice can

still be questionable. It really takes a skilled and experienced homeopath

to target the remedy well to the patient. Most studies are not set up to

accommodate this level of specific attention to each patient involved. It

would be too expensive to conduct such a study. So, studies on the efficacy

of homeopathy are likely not to be trusted at all.

Homeopathy is a time-honored treatment in Europe, where every pharmacy

stocks a great complement of homeopathic products and where people know

better how to use it.

Cherwyn

[Guest guest]

That part is generally true; at least if you only look at direct

physiological effects from the product. That's probably the sole reason

early homeopathic practitioners gained popularity: Their products

didn't cause the harm that bleeding, purging, leeches and such tended

toward. Just as there's nothing in it that could possibly help you

there's nothing it that could possibly harm you unless you have some

kind of reaction to the fillers/whatever; which for soluble ingredients

are typically an alcohol-water mixture and lactose for insoluble powders.

The indirect harm could be serious or fatal: If you avoid getting

effective treatment for a serious problem while taking something totally

ineffective you could suffer harm or death due to NOT getting effective

treatment.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Beverly53 " beebie10@...

>

<mailto:beebie10@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Alternative%20Opinions%2E%20%20Was\

%3A%20Salt>

> beebie10 <beebie10>

>

>

> Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:55 pm (PST)

>

>

>

>

> Roni, I also have found many homeopathic remedies that worked for me.

> I'm glad the Bio-Allers worked for you.

>

> The nice part about homeopathic remedies is that, even if they don't

> help, they won't hurt you, unlike most allopathic medicines which have

> side effects.

[Guest guest]

And if it quacks like a duck...

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Cherwyn Ambuter " cherwyn@...

>

<mailto:cherwyn@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Alternative%20Opinions%2E%20%20Wa\

s%3A%20Salt>

> atmosphere1823 <atmosphere1823>

>

>

> Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:07 am (PST)

>

>

>

> I agree; homeopathics have worked for my family.