Re: Experience with other thyroid meds

February 19, 2010

You are entitled to have a copy of your test report, so you can request that and

take it home with you.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

> By your criteria you certainly shouldn't be promoting dessicated thyroid

> from which both T4 and T3 have been removed; basically a quack product.

> You certainly don't have any credible reference supporting that. And I

> don't need a peer reviewed publication to point out the lack of support

> for your recommendation.

>

> I actually composed a far more extensive response but I happened to read

> Chuck's post before I finished it so I'm deleting the balance. I think

> he addressed your distortions far better than I could have.

>

> Despite my lack of ability to quote much if anything in the way of

> credible research I remain convinced that for some percentage of hypo

> patients Armour is probably a better choice than T4 alone. IMHO it is

> unfortunate that it is so difficult to obtain in the UK.

>

> .

>

> >

> > Posted by: " SheilaT "

sheilaturner@...<sheilaturner%40tpa-uk.org.uk>

> > <mailto:sheilaturner@... <sheilaturner%40tpa-uk.org.uk>

> ?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Experience%20with%20%22other%22%20thyroid%20meds>

> > campaigner77 <campaigner77>

> >

> > Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:05 am (PST)

>

> >

> > Your problem is that you fail to follow up your statements by

> > citing references. If you haven't got references, you should not post

> > information. The information you have posted is incorrect..

>

--

www.giftedchildren.webs.com

Fun & challenging activities for Gifted Children

February 19, 2010

Thanks for reinforcing one of my recent [and repeated] points here.

Most hypo patients take T4 and once it is titrated don't give much

thought to it or have any problems. An unfortunate few do not fit than

mold.

..

>

> Posted by: " Parsons " loradora10@...

>

<mailto:loradora10@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Experience%20with%20%22other%22%\

20thyroid%20meds>

> loradora10 <loradora10>

>

> Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:52 pm (PST)

>

> I have never even heard of Armour until I started reading this group's

> discussions.

> I have been taking Thyroxine for around 15 yrs now.

> i have my blood test done yesterday as it has been 12 months since I last

> have my levels checked.

> So I thought I would be more vigilant from now on

> Next week I will actually ask to see the results

> which I never have before.

>

> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 8:48 AM, <res075oh@...

> <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> wrote:

>

> >

> > By your criteria you certainly shouldn't be promoting dessicated thyroid

> > from which both T4 and T3 have been removed; basically a quack product.

> > You certainly don't have any credible reference supporting that. And I

> > don't need a peer reviewed publication to point out the lack of support

> > for your recommendation.

> >

> > I actually composed a far more extensive response but I happened to read

> > Chuck's post before I finished it so I'm deleting the balance. I think

> > he addressed your distortions far better than I could have.

> >

> > Despite my lack of ability to quote much if anything in the way of

> > credible research I remain convinced that for some percentage of hypo

> > patients Armour is probably a better choice than T4 alone. IMHO it is

> > unfortunate that it is so difficult to obtain in the UK.

> >

February 19, 2010

Sure it does; except when it doesn't. The T4 and T3 can be removed and

then it can be sold without a prescription as a supplement. At that

point you have basically very expensive [and lousy tasting] hamburger

with no medical benefits. The trace elements remaining are probably

less than in reasonably good hamburger. It's basically a product sold

by con artists to the ill informed. On Sheila's list you can't tell

anybody that.

Regards,

..

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

>

<mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Experience%20with%20%22other%22\

%20thyroid%20meds>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

> Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:33 pm (PST)

>

> , I don't understand. Armour is made from dessicated thyroid, and

> it has both T3 and T4. Maybe I'm not reading what you wrote correctly.

>

> <>Roni

> Immortality exists!

> It's called knowledge!

>

> Just because something isn't seen

> doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: Experience with " other " thyroid meds

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 2:18 PM

>

> By your criteria you certainly shouldn't be promoting dessicated thyroid

> from which both T4 and T3 have been removed; basically a quack product.

> You certainly don't have any credible reference supporting that. And I

> don't need a peer reviewed publication to point out the lack of support

> for your recommendation.

>

> I actually composed a far more extensive response but I happened to read

> Chuck's post before I finished it so I'm deleting the balance. I think

> he addressed your distortions far better than I could have.

>

> Despite my lack of ability to quote much if anything in the way of

> credible research I remain convinced that for some percentage of hypo

> patients Armour is probably a better choice than T4 alone. IMHO it is

> unfortunate that it is so difficult to obtain in the UK.

>

February 19, 2010

This is one lady that is agreeing with your estimation of T4 protocol working

for her. However, the great majority of people on this and other thyroid groups

have had trouble with this protocol, so your " most " theory still does not

satisfy me completely.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

> >

> > By your criteria you certainly shouldn't be promoting dessicated thyroid

> > from which both T4 and T3 have been removed; basically a quack product.

> > You certainly don't have any credible reference supporting that. And I

> > don't need a peer reviewed publication to point out the lack of support

> > for your recommendation.

> >

> > I actually composed a far more extensive response but I happened to read

> > Chuck's post before I finished it so I'm deleting the balance. I think

> > he addressed your distortions far better than I could have.

> >

> > Despite my lack of ability to quote much if anything in the way of

> > credible research I remain convinced that for some percentage of hypo

> > patients Armour is probably a better choice than T4 alone. IMHO it is

> > unfortunate that it is so difficult to obtain in the UK.

> >

------------------------------------

February 19, 2010

Are you saying that Armour and the other T3, T4 combo medications are hamburger?

I don't know if you are aware or not, but Armour was the only type of medication

used till 1970 when the TSH test was invented. It has been in use way longer

than any other medication. Synthroid has only been around since the 70s.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: Experience with " other " thyroid meds

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 2:18 PM

>

> By your criteria you certainly shouldn't be promoting dessicated thyroid

> from which both T4 and T3 have been removed; basically a quack product.

> You certainly don't have any credible reference supporting that. And I

> don't need a peer reviewed publication to point out the lack of support

> for your recommendation.

>

> I actually composed a far more extensive response but I happened to read

> Chuck's post before I finished it so I'm deleting the balance. I think

> he addressed your distortions far better than I could have.

>

> Despite my lack of ability to quote much if anything in the way of

> credible research I remain convinced that for some percentage of hypo

> patients Armour is probably a better choice than T4 alone. IMHO it is

> unfortunate that it is so difficult to obtain in the UK.

>

------------------------------------

February 19, 2010

, once again....

With 'Nutri Thyroid', what is it that you don't understand about the

following?http://www.yournutritionshop.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=932

" Nutri Thyroid Ingredients

Each tablet typically provides: Thyroid concentrate. 130mg. Parotid 1

mg.

Nutri Thyroid provides thyroxin-free thyroid concentrate, boosted by

parotid concentrate to help nutritiionally support the thyroid gland.

Thyroid concentrate contains the amino acids required to support healthy

function of the thyroid gland. "

Sheila

>

> Sure it does; except when it doesn't. The T4 and T3 can be removed and

> then it can be sold without a prescription as a supplement. At that

> point you have basically very expensive [and lousy tasting] hamburger

> with no medical benefits. The trace elements remaining are probably

> less than in reasonably good hamburger. It's basically a product sold

> by con artists to the ill informed. On Sheila's list you can't tell

> anybody that.

>

> Regards,

>

> .

>

February 19, 2010

, when you talk about an " unfortunate few " , there are,

actually, a large number of sufferers of the symptoms of hypothyroidism

who are unable to regain their normal health on levothyroxine-only.

Chuck quoted figures of those UK citizens being treated with synthetic

T4, versus, natural thyroid extract in the UK within the NHS. They were

the lucky one's who managed to get their NHS doctor to give them a

prescription,but thousands of others don't show on such statistics

because they are forced to buy their natural extract from Internet

Pharmacies.

You should read the paper " Consent: Customary Practice Versus

Prudent Patient From The Perspective Of Mimics of Hypothyroidism " by

Pritchard, US Researcher.

He talks about the historical background of hypothyroidism that sheds

light on the source of the suffering for 13+% of those being treated for

hypothyroidism,[1,2] plus still more with symptoms who are,

nevertheless, declared healthy.[3] Thus, out of the approximate 2.5

million sufferers within the UK alone, who are being treated, this means

there are 300,000 who are not being treated properly. Add to this the

problem of false negative diagnostic results, this potentially adds

another 6% of the population, another 3.6 million.[3] So, the number of

unnecessarily mistreated, medically abused patients in the UK alone

number in the millions.

1. Saravanan P, Chau F, N, Vedhara K , Greenwood R, Dayan

CM , 2002, Psychological Well-Being in Patients on " Adequate " Doses of

L-Thyroxine Results of a Large, Controlled Community-Based Questionnaire

Study, Clinical Endocrinology, 2002, 57: 577-585

2. Kaplan MM , Sarne DH, Schneider AB, In Search of the Impossible

Dream? T hyroid HormoneReplace ment Therapy T hat Treats A ll Symptom s

in All Hypo thyroid Pa tients

3. Goldb erg M, T he Case F or Euthyro id Hypo metabolism , Am J

Med Sc October, 1960 pgs 479-493

Sheila

>

> Thanks for reinforcing one of my recent [and repeated] points here.

> Most hypo patients take T4 and once it is titrated don't give much

> thought to it or have any problems. An unfortunate few do not fit

than

> mold.

>

> .

>

> >

February 19, 2010

,

You wrote:

> ... you have basically very expensive [and lousy tasting] hamburger

> with no medical benefits. The trace elements remaining are probably

> less than in reasonably good hamburger. It's basically a product sold

> by con artists to the ill informed. On Sheila's list you can't tell

> anybody that.

We actually ran the numbers just before visiting this issue on Sheila's

list. There were indeed higher levels of all the thyroid hormones and

calcitonin in an ordinary beef meal than in the recommended dose of

dessicated gland supplements.

And, you are correct that one could not say something like that on

Sheila's list. It was too technical. However, it was quite accepted to

recommend that people buy the stuff and tell them what wonders it would

work. That was not technical. So, the result is that subscribers to that

list only heard one side. The appearance was that there was no dissent,

unless you were one of the handful of people on LABGAB.

Chuck

February 19, 2010

Roni Molin wrote to :

>

> Are you saying that Armour and the other T3, T4 combo medications are

> hamburger?...

Not at all. He was (then and now) talking about " dessicated thyroid "

which has been denatured, so it can be sold otc. That is what was

recommended to people who obviously needed some form of thyroid hormone

replacement.

Chuck

February 19, 2010

>

> We actually ran the numbers just before visiting this issue on

Sheila's

> list. There were indeed higher levels of all the thyroid hormones and

> calcitonin in an ordinary beef meal than in the recommended dose of

> dessicated gland supplements.

Chuck, then show me the science that there are higher levels of all the

thyroid hormones and calcitonin in an ordinary a beef meal than the

130mg thyroid extract that is in Nutri Thyroid. And, I am not talking

about level of thyroxine, as this has been removed from the thyroid

supplement in question.

We do think about our members and know many do not want the main message

board filling up with science they neither understand or need, so we

opened a forum especially for those who both wanted and needed it.

What's wrong with that. It works well. Rather than use it, you decided

to resign.

Nutri Thyroid, whatever you believe, does work for a lot of people

Chuck, and for some people, it doesn't work, because it is usually found

they are in need of much higher doses of thyroid hormones, so you are

wrong when you say that there was no dissent, such dissent happens on

all forums, as it happens here.

Sheila

>

> And, you are correct that one could not say something like that on

> Sheila's list. It was too technical. However, it was quite accepted to

> recommend that people buy the stuff and tell them what wonders it

would

> work. That was not technical. So, the result is that subscribers to

that

> list only heard one side. The appearance was that there was no

dissent,

> unless you were one of the handful of people on LABGAB.

>

> Chuck

>

February 19, 2010

> Not at all. He was (then and now) talking about " dessicated thyroid "

> which has been denatured, so it can be sold otc. That is what was

> recommended to people who obviously needed some form of thyroid

hormone

> replacement.

Nature Throid has been denatured of thyroxine only in the same way as

other thyroid supplements. You can check out the Nutri web site that

was posted to this morning. It still contains 130mg of natural

thyroid extract. As there is only T3, T2, T1 left, it's a natural

assumption that this are still there.

Sheila

February 19, 2010

I don't understand how a thyroid medication that doesn't contain thyroid hormone

could work for someone with hypothyroid. The reason one is hypothyroid is

because their body is not making thyroid hormones, or not enough of them.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: SheilaT <sheilaturner@...>

Subject: Re: Experience with " other " thyroid meds

hypothyroidism

Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 3:14 AM

, once again....

With 'Nutri Thyroid', what is it that you don't understand about the

following?http://www.yournutritionshop.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=932

" Nutri Thyroid Ingredients

Each tablet typically provides: Thyroid concentrate. 130mg. Parotid 1

mg.

Nutri Thyroid provides thyroxin-free thyroid concentrate, boosted by

parotid concentrate to help nutritiionally support the thyroid gland.

Thyroid concentrate contains the amino acids required to support healthy

function of the thyroid gland. "

Sheila

>

> Sure it does; except when it doesn't. The T4 and T3 can be removed and

> then it can be sold without a prescription as a supplement. At that

> point you have basically very expensive [and lousy tasting] hamburger

> with no medical benefits. The trace elements remaining are probably

> less than in reasonably good hamburger. It's basically a product sold

> by con artists to the ill informed. On Sheila's list you can't tell

> anybody that.

>

> Regards,

>

> .

>

February 19, 2010

Hi Roni - You are correct. There is no medication that will work for

anybody who is suffering from hypothyroidism apart from one that

contains thyroid hormones. However, there are some folk who's thyroid

function can be boosted with supplements, such as one that is being

discussed. NT does contain 130mgs of thyroid extract with other

minerals, vitamins etc. What's getting forgotten in this discussion is

that we are not claiming Nutri Thyroid should be used as a thyroid

hormone replacement for those suffering hypothyroidism. It is

recommended only to help give the thyroid gland the specific nutrients

it needs. Such supplements are especially useful when a patient's

thyroid gland function tests are within the reference range, yet they

have symptoms and signs of hypothyroidism, and their doctor refuses them

a diagnosis and therefore, no thyroid hormone replacement.

Sheila

>

> I don't understand how a thyroid medication that doesn't contain

thyroid hormone could work for someone with hypothyroid. The reason one

is hypothyroid is because their body is not making thyroid hormones, or

not enough of them.

February 19, 2010

Oh, I was getting concerned that I was taking the equivilent of hamburger all

this time. If that was the case I would have enjoyed the real thing much more.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: Chuck B <gumboyaya@...>

Subject: Re: Re: Experience with " other " thyroid meds

hypothyroidism

Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 4:56 AM

Roni Molin wrote to :

>

> Are you saying that Armour and the other T3, T4 combo medications are

> hamburger?...

Not at all. He was (then and now) talking about " dessicated thyroid "

which has been denatured, so it can be sold otc. That is what was

recommended to people who obviously needed some form of thyroid hormone

replacement.

Chuck

------------------------------------

February 19, 2010

All right, I can agree with boosting a person's ability to chemically function.

A question comes to mind from what you said below. If the Nutri throid contains

130 mgs of thyroid extract, wouldn't that change the reactions of any thyroid

hormones they are taking that have been rxd by their doctors? I don't think the

differences have been made clear enough to people who don't know enough about

this subject. A newbie to this world would tend to just take what they read

worked for someone without really knowing what they are taking and/or what it

can do to their body, functioning or prognosis. It take a lot of research before

a patient becomes familiar enough with the subject to take something like that

with the surety of knowing exactly what it will and won't do. That is my

opinion.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: SheilaT <sheilaturner@...>

Subject: Re: Experience with " other " thyroid meds

hypothyroidism

Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 9:22 AM