Re: Experience with other thyroid meds

February 22, 2010

That's exactly the information that I have; but Sheila always claims

differently. I'm waiting to see if she can come up with a T3 level in

Nutri Thyroid. I'm not holding my breath.

Nutri-Med _did_ throw me for a loop there with their claim to have both

T3 and T4; but that claim appears to have disappeared, although you can

still as of tonight find it if you go to the site from a Google search

and view their 2/15/10 cache of the page.

..

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

>

<mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Experience%20with%20%22other%22\

%20thyroid%20meds>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

> Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:34 pm (PST)

>

> Here is the information from that site for NutriMed Bovine.

>

> Now, this is what it says. It contains NO thyroid hormones. It

> contains 140 mgs of Bovine thyroid concentrate in each capsule. It

> says NOTHING about containing thyroid hormone. In fact it clearly

> states that it does not. It is a nutritional support for the thyroid

> gland, that's all.

>

> Nutri Thyroid

> Thyroid Gland Concentrate

>

> Thyroid hormones regulate metabolic rate, body temperature and

> cellular repair. Nutri Thyroid provides hormone-free

> thyroid concentrate, to nutritionally support this regulatory gland.

> Thyroid concentrate contains the amino acids required to support

> healthy function of the thyroid gland.

>

> Recommendation: 1-3 tablets daily with food, or as directed

>

> Ingredients: Each tablet typically contains: Thyroid concentrate*

> 140mg (*Bovine source from New Zealand)

> Tableted with: Dicalcium phosphate Microcrystalline cellulose Silicon

> dioxide Stearic acid

>

> Caution: None known if directions are followed.

>

> Information on this site is not intended to recommend any supplement

> other than for nutritional purposes. Consult with your health care

> professional if you have an existing medical condition. Do not take

> these products if pregnant, planning pregnancy or breast-feeding

> without first consulting your health care professional

> * Consumer information

>

> <>Roni

> Immortality exists!

> It's called knowledge!

>

> Just because something isn't seen

> doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: Experience with " other " thyroid meds

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>, " JAMES " <res075oh@...

> <mailto:res075oh%40gte.net>>

> Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 6:33 PM

>

> If they measure T3 in Nutri Thyroid then please tell me how much T3 is

> in it. You've repeatedly stated that the T3 is not removed and I've

> repeatedly suggested that is not correct. It appears one of us must be

> wrong, and I'm trying to find out for sure which it is.

>

> I did find a site in the UK selling NT that states that it is hormone

> free. The site is Lifestyle Natural Health and here is the link:

> .

>

> <http://www.lifestylenaturalhealth.co.uk/nutri-thyroid-i1038.html

> <http://www.lifestylenaturalhealth.co.uk/nutri-thyroid-i1038.html>>

> .

> Here is the copy where they claim NT is hormone free:

> .

>

> *Description*

> *Nutri Thyroid

> **Thyroid Gland Concentrate

> *

> Thyroid hormones regulate metabolic rate, body temperature and cellular

> repair. Nutri Thyroid provides hormone-free thyroid concentrate, to

> nutritionally support this regulatory gland.

> Thyroid concentrate contains the amino acids required to support healthy

> function of the thyroid gland.

> *

> Recommendation:* 1-3 tablets daily with food, or as directed

> *

> ----------------------------------------------------------

> **Ingredients:* Each tablet typically contains: Thyroid concentrate*

> 140mg (*Bovine source from New Zealand)

> .

> Since T4 and T3 are both hormones they're claiming it _DOES NOT_ have T3.

>

> If you have a site that contradicts the above please post it.

>

> Now, to confuse matters further Nutri-Meds claims their thyroid

> glandular product contains all of the natural thyroid; nothing is

> removed [that would mean both T4 and T3]. But Dr. Lowe states that

> is incorrect; that there is no T4 in Nutri-Med's product.

>

> Thanks,

>

> .

>

> > Posted by: " SheilaT " sheilaturner@...

> <mailto:sheilaturner%40tpa-uk.org.uk>

> > <mailto:sheilaturner%40tpa-uk.org.uk>

> > > <mailto:sheilaturner@...

> <mailto:sheilaturner%40tpa-uk.org.uk>

> > <mailto:sheilaturner%40tpa-uk.org.uk>?Subject=%20Re%

> > 3A%20Experience%20with%20%22other%22%20thyroid%20meds>

> > > campaigner77 <campaigner77

> <campaigner77>

> > <campaigner77

> <campaigner77>>>

> > >

> > > Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:20 am (PST)

> > >

> > > How are you comparing 1.6mcg T3 and 66mcg of T4 in half a pound of

> beef

> > > to 130 mg of thyroxine free thyroid extract Chuck? The measure of

> > > calcitonin is not published because it is not measured, in the

> same way

> > > the other hormones and enzymes in natural extract are not

> measured. They

> > > only ever measure T4 and T3 levels.

February 22, 2010

>

>> You sent no such message to me because I didn't call any doctor there a

> quack. That is a lie.

Your message was rejected. It is a well known fact that you call some doctors

" quacks " on this forumn too.

Is there any way you

> can post a link to the actual specific ingredients of Nutri-thyroid? I

> am very much interested to find any specific indication that it has as

> much T3 as Armour does.

Nutri Thyroid is a Thyroxine-free Thyroid Concentrate

Each tablet typically provides:

Thyroid concentrate 130mgs

Parotid 1mg

Dicalcium phosphates

Microcrystalline cellulose

Silicon Dioxide

Stearic Acid

February 22, 2010

The only thing I was concerned about was that you got the conversion of pounds

to kilos so wrong on two occasions.

Regarding eating hamburgers or beef ...as you pointed out it is only if they are

cooked rare that any thyroid hormone(s) is/are available ...does this mean that

it's the blood that is important?

Trish

> >

> > On the planet I inhabit, 2.2 POUNDS = 1 KILO n'est pas!

>

> Mea culpa! My planet too.

>

> So, let's use a 12 oz. minimum steak. That is just over 1/3 kg. Cut my

> numbers by 1/3, and it is still a lot more than is allowed in otc

> thyroid extract.

>

> Chuck

>

February 22, 2010

As stated previously, Nutri Thyroid claim their product is thyroxine

free i.e. T4 free and that it contains 130 mgs thyroid concentrate, it

is reasonable to assume that the thyroid concentrate contains T3,T2,T1

as there is no claim that these have been removed and these are natural

to thyroid gland tissue. You, on the other hand, assume that all thyroid

hormones have been removed. Read what Dr Peatfield and Dr Lowe wrote.

In Dr Peatfield's book " Your Thyroid and How to Keep it Healthy " he

writes

" Where the thyroid has been damaged in some way, and cannot be expected

to recover full function, we can turn to the earliest days of thyroid

treatment, and the use of processed glandular concentrates. Extremely

useful is whole glandular bovine or porcine thyroid concentrate, which

contains 130mg of raw thyroid concentrate. Nutri-Meds in the USA and

Nutri Ltd in the UK prepare these products, which are designated as

dietary supplements and so do not require a prescription, although they

do have to be recommended by a healthcare practitioner. The dosage

levels may be largely set by the patient: monitoring symptoms,

temperature and pulse should enable the correct dose to be arrived at.

The dose is normally 1 or 2 tablets daily with food, usually in the

morning; this may be increased after a few months to 3 or 4. All the

time you must monitor your waking and evening temperature and pulse to

assess your physical response, making a note of how you feel.... "

....and in his chapter directed at doctors he writes: " The stage is now

set for the use of thyroid supplementation. You haver certain choices,

which must be exercised. First, for patients whose blood tests may be

equivocal but with a nevertheless convincing clinical diagnosis, it is

effective, safe and proper to consider the use of natural glandular

extracts. These are licensed as food products and are provided by, for

example, Nutri Meds (bovine or porcine sourced) or Nutri Ltd (bovine

sourced) in 130 mg amounts of thyroid glandular extract. The thyroid

support which will begin two or three weeks after the adrenal

supplement, should be started at 1 daily in the morning with food,

increasing as required to perhaps 4 daily "

Nutri Meds is a whole natural desiccated thyroid extract

http://www.nutri-meds.com/Nutri_Meds_Desiccated_Porcine_Thyroid_Capsules\

_p/nm-g-ptc.htm

<http://www.nutri-meds.com/Nutri_Meds_Desiccated_Porcine_Thyroid_Capsule\

s_p/nm-g-ptc.htm>

Read Dr Lowe's explanation

http://www.thyroidscience.us/info/Q & As/Q & As.Nutri.Thyroid.7.htm

<http://www.thyroidscience.us/info/Q & As/Q & As.Nutri.Thyroid.7.htm>

" Why would I have tremors on 3 capsules of Nutri-Thyroid, and would I do

better with HSF? " (The role of underlying factors.) January 11, 2010

Q: Here in the UK, we can buy a product named " Nutri-Thyroid

<http://www.worldwideshoppingmall.co.uk/body-soul/nutri-thyroid.asp>

.. " I started taking 3 capsules, and 3 days later I felt so tremulous

that I stopped it. When I bought it, my understanding was that it has no

thyroid hormones in it. Are you familiar with Nutri-Thyroid and have you

any notion why it caused me to have tremors? Do you think I would also

have tremors if I take RLC Labs' HSF

<http://www.thyroidscience.us/products/hsf/intro.hsf.htm> ?

<http://www.thyroidscience.us/products/hsf/intro.hsf.htm#HSF Bottle>

To Order

HSF <http://www.thyroidscience.us/products/hsf/intro.hsf.htm#HSF Bottle>

Dr. Lowe: I only learned about the product Nutri-Thyroid several days

ago. I learned about it from someone I did a long-distance educational

consultation with. She lives in the UK. I looked the product up on the

Internet and found that advertisements describe it as

" thyroxine-free. "

It appears to me that the product is equivalent to Nutri-Meds

<http://www.nutri-meds.com/Nutri_Meds_Desiccated_Bovine_Thyroid_Tablets_\

p/nm-g-btt.htm> over-the-counter (dietary desiccated thyroid) sold in

the US. Both products are described as " glandulars. " Each

capsule of each product contains 130 mg of desiccated thyroid powder

from animals in New Zealand. Both products are also free of T4.

(Nutri-Meds employees, however, mistakenly believe that their thyroid

products contain T4; if the products did contain T4, the FDA would

promptly remove them from the market.) The Nutri-Thyroid ads say that

the powder is from cows, but Nutri-Meds sells both cow- and pig-derived

desiccated thyroid products.

Judging from Nutri-Thyroid ads stating that the product is

" thyroxine-free, " we're left with the assumption that the

product still contains T3, T2, T1, and calcitonin. This is a reasonable

assumption in that these hormones are natural to thyroid gland tissue.

As I said, Nutri-Thyroid and Nutri-Meds products contain 130 mg of

thyroid powder per capsule. By contrast, HSF contains 300 mg of

desiccated thyroid powder in each capsule. In addition, HSF contains an

array of non-hormone compounds that are synergists to thyroid hormone.

The Chief Science Officer at RLC Labs, Dai Jinn, formulated the

ingredients of HSF. I believe he formulated the product brilliantly. I

say this because of comparisons we've made in ongoing clinical

studies.

In the comparisons, we've given study subjects a desiccated thyroid

" test powder. " The amount of powder we've given them is the same amount

that's contained in the number of HSF capsules that have given them

normal test results, such normal basal metabolic rates. Days after

switching the subjects to the same amount of thyroid powder in the test

capsules (minus the synergistic ingredients in HSF capsules), the study

subjects' metabolic rates have markedly decreased. As a result of

these study comparisons, I don't believe the effectiveness of HSF is

due solely to the thyroid powder it contains; the other ingredients

appear to provide some of the effectiveness of the product. As I

suggested, this additional effectiveness, above that provided by the

thyroid powder, is due to Dai Jinn's brilliant formulating

calculations.

Regarding our comparison studies, I have one regret: I don't know

exactly how far on average the study subjects' metabolic rates would

have fallen on the test powder alone. The reason is that as the

subjects' metabolic rates began falling, they began experiencing

unpleasant symptoms. It would have been inhumane to ask them to continue

to bear the symptoms long enough for me to get reliable measurements of

the lowest level to which their metabolic rates would have fallen.

Now, to answer your two-part question, which was: (1) Why did you feel

tremulous on 3 capsules of Nutri-Thyroid, and (2) would you do better

taking HSF?

First, let me say that your tremors are consistent with thyroid hormone

overstimulation. I don't think, however, that thyroid hormone

overstimulation was the sole cause of your tremors. I say this because 3

capsules that contain 130 mg of thyroid powder each are not likely to

cause most people to have thyroid hormone overstimulation. I've

talked with many people who've gotten well on products that contain 130

mg of thyroid powder. Most of them got well by taking between 6 and 10

capsules. This would be 780 mg to 1300 mg of thyroid powder.

Most people who experience symptoms of overstimulation from only 3 of

the capsules (390 mg of powder) have one or more underlying conditions

that interacts with small doses of thyroid hormone to produce adverse

effects. Tremors is one such effect. In my experience, the most common

of these underlying conditions are: (1) a cortisol deficiency; (2)

nutritional deficiencies, most often involving B complex vitamins; (3)

abnormal blood sugar regulation; and (4) the intake of xanthine

[pronounced zan' thçn] chemicals, such as caffeine, theobromine,

theophyllin, and pseudoephedrine. (Examples of consumables that contain

xanthines are coffee, tea, chocolate, cough medicines, and

decongestants.)

The interaction of one of these underlying conditions with your low dose

of Nutri-Thyroid most likely produced your tremors. And you could, of

course, easily mistake the cause of your tremors as being the 3 caps of

Nutri-Thyroid you were taking.

Remember, HSF <http://www.thyroidscience.us/products/hsf/intro.hsf.htm>

contains synergistic ingredients that augment the effectiveness of the

thyroid powder the capsules contains. Because of this, I suspect that

you're likely to be even more tremulous if you take HSF capsules

right now. Before trying them, it would be prudent for you to identify

and correct any underlying conditions you have that can adversely

interact with thyroid hormone. Then you should be able to find your safe

and effective daily dose of which ever dietary desiccated thyroid

product you prefer to use. I encourage you to continue working to

improve your health, and I wish you the very best it.

>

> That's exactly the information that I have; but Sheila always claims

> differently. I'm waiting to see if she can come up with a T3 level in

> Nutri Thyroid. I'm not holding my breath.

>

> Nutri-Med _did_ throw me for a loop there with their claim to have

both

> T3 and T4; but that claim appears to have disappeared, although you

can

> still as of tonight find it if you go to the site from a Google search

> and view their 2/15/10 cache of the page.

>

> .

>

February 22, 2010

Yes, Armour is from pigs. But don't feel badly; this is a mistake that all

the ignorant doctors make, as well. We Armour patients (or, in my case,

former Armour patient now on Erfa) have heard it many times before.

I do feel that it may be instructive to point out that with the amount of

hammering you guys do to those who offer errata instead of facts, when you

yourselves make glaring mistakes on easy things (such as animal sources for

Armour and the easy conversion of our system of weights to the metric

system), you give yourselves a complete " pass " for making a mistake.

Everyone else is uneducated, has a low IQ, or a suspect motive if they make

a mistake. You, though, both remain at the top of the IQ scale and education

scale and it's OK for you to make a mistake. I can see why others are

leaving this list. The only reason I remain on it is that the occasional

scientific fact which isn't easy to find elsewhere is brought forth here

(such as the recent article on vitamin K, which for me was very absorbing

and informative - thanks to whomever sent it in!).

NDT used to be readily available in from both bovine and sheep sources, many

years ago. I have seen hypothyroid people today who eat kosher looking for

the bovine form, and they have found it impossible to locate now.

Cherwyn

February 22, 2010

Hi Cherwyn

That is why some people use the supplements containing bovine adrenal

concentrate such as Nutri Thyroid.

Sheila

>

> NDT used to be readily available in from both bovine and sheep

sources, many

> years ago. I have seen hypothyroid people today who eat kosher looking

for

> the bovine form, and they have found it impossible to locate now.

>

> Cherwyn

>

February 22, 2010

Nutri Thyroid makers haven't been hauled over the coals for misleading

advertising, yet?

Sheila

> A number of web sites claim that thyroid glandulars have had the T4

> removed but still contain all the T3. However, both active forms are

> prohibited for over the counter sales by 21 CFR 310 and 330-358, which

> governs otc drugs. If the levels of either T3 or T4 were high enough

to

> have much effect, they would be regulated as drugs. Only if the levels

> are at about the limit of easy detection can they be classed as

> supplements.

>

February 22, 2010

I don't usually mix up a pig and a cow, but I have to confess, for someone who

got excellent marks in math in school, I do get thrown with the metric system.

At this stage, I'm not even upset about that, it's just inconvenient. Why they

have to have two systems is beyond me. I know people claim that metric is more

precise, but when you've been brought up and used our stystm all your life, it

makes for more density in the brain conversion area. Besises,

I'm dealing with enough problems without worrying about the metric system. LOL!

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: Cherwyn Ambuter <cherwyn@...>

Subject: Re: Experience with " other " thyroid meds

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 4:47 AM