Re: Experience with other thyroid meds

[Guest guest]

-- In hypothyroidism , <res075oh@...> wrote:

>

> Sheila, I think I see a problem with our communication. Please see

below...

> What's wrong with that is that you can [and do] promote some quack

> product and prevent anyone from pointing out that it's a quack

product.

> I suspect that's one reason Chuck left: He could not honestly be part

> of such a deceptive undertaking. And it's one of the reasons I'm not

so

> bothered about being booted. After all, it was just a matter of time;

> because you're not going to allow anyone to come on that list and

> correct your lies with truth.

I consider my self to be in excellent company - though I do appreciate

you will need to let us have your thoughts about some of these people.

You obviously have a very serious issue about adrenal and thyroid

glandulars, so much so that if you really do care about those sufferers

who have been duped into taking them, you really must go to the horses

mouth and take up this issue with the manufacturers and with those

" Quacks " who appear to have the same lack of " spectacular education " as

me (as written by you) such as Dr Lowe, Dr Brownstein, Shomon, Dr

Holtorf , Dr Adrienne Clamp and numerous others, plus the manufacturers

of the thyroid glandulars mentioned below. Dr. Brownstein mentioned the

glandular thyroid supplement GTA Forte from Biotics. Some other

over-the-counter thyroid glandulars include Nutri-Meds Porcine Thyroid

Glandular Concentrate Capsules and Tablets

<http://www.nutri-meds.com/thyroid_supplements_s/33.htm> and RLC's Hypo

Support Formula

<http://www.thyroidscience.us/general/latest.updates.htm> . These are

non-prescription dietary desiccated thyroid products with ONLY the T4

removed, meaning they provide the active T3. Dr. Lowe has provided

some guidelines for patients on how these glandulars are used

<http://www.drlowe.com/emailnewsletter/2009archive6.htm> , but it's

generally recommended that you use these products only under a doctors

guidance, which, in the UK National Health Service, is impossible to do,

so we seek the services of private doctors who work outside mainstream

guidelines. Check out the following too

http://www.thyroidscience.us/info/Q & As/Q & As.Nutri.Thyroid.7.htm

<http://www.thyroidscience.us/info/Q & As/Q & As.Nutri.Thyroid.7.htm>

Was it sheer coincidence, or was it part of an agenda, that both

yourself and Chuck joined my forum within a couple of days of each

other, and almost immediately started to rubbish our recommendations of

adrenal and thyroid glandulars for some of our members. You sent in a

message calling one of my medical advisers a " quack " . I warned you not

to rubbish doctors online as doing so could cause problems for the

doctor concerned, and who could take legal action against the writer. I

removed you after my moderators asked me to remove you. TPA-UK supports

and helps those suffering, we do not create suffering as you would have

folk believe. I also see now that you are accusing me of promoting

" some " quack products - so tell me the names of what these are? Your

allegations are appalling.

Chuck has already posted the reason he left my forum. I refused to allow

him to post lots of references on science on the main support forum,

after I had already posted one reference to the particular science in

question, and although I appreciated that he was trying to help me, I

saw his new posting as a chance to open a new thread on the Science

(LABGAB) forum. I rejected that message and asked him to post it onto

LABGAB instead, which he refused to do, and decided to leave. He was

treated with politeness, as you were, at all times. Chuck called me a

" bully " for what I did. It never occured to me that I was a bully, and

if he felt that, then that was his problem.

I take exception to you making allegations that he unsubscribed I was

promoting what you (or he) decided is a " quack product " . I do check out

products before recommending them to my members. I also check out

supplements that have been recommended for me before taking them, as

any sensible person would do, and I will continue to do so.

Sheila

[Guest guest]

Roni,

You wrote:

>

>

> No wonder I always feel better after eating a beef meal. After reading

> all the negative admonitions about beef, I thought I must be imagining

> things, but your post shows me

> again that even if I don't know what's going on, my body does.

Other meats and fish should have similar levels of thyroid hormones and

metabolic products. I suspect your body is approving more of the

balanced mix of amino acids and calories than thyroid content. Our point

was that with the active hormones removed, the glandular material is

very similar to any other body tissue, except you have to pay a lot more

for it.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

>

> Sheila,

> I don't question your I.Q. and education, I question your honesty and

integrity. It is unconscionable to recommend something for these

suffering people who have come to you for help that you know is not

going to stop their decline, only cause them to spend money neddlessly.

>

Roni, What would be in it for me to be the cause of such suffering and

a decline in such sufferers health? Perhaps if you were a member of my

forum, you would actually see that I try to do whatever I can to stop

such suffering. Honesty means telling the truth. Integrity means having

high moral character and living by a strict set of ethics and

principals. One can be honest without integrity, but you can't have

integrity without honesty. I don't have any worries about my honesty and

integrity and can live with myself happily.

I have spent well over 6 years of my life doing little else but working

up to 12 hours a day at times trying to help those with the symptoms of

hypothyroidism who are being left to suffer needlessly. They are being

left to suffer because doctors are not given the proper training on the

best way to reach a proper diagnose, and for those folk who are lucky to

get diagnosed, doctors are not trained in how to treat them properly, or

they refuse to give them a choice of threatment. I spend my life

campaigning to bring about changes in this field. Be assured, that any

recommendation I make does have the ability to help stop their decline.

Many sufferers are doing very well taking thyroid glandulars and

adrenal glandulars. I do appreciate that many people have been forced to

leave paid employment and are trying to exist on State Benefits. I try

to ensure they do not spend their money needlessly.

I am a diagnosed sufferer of (Hashimoto's) hypothyroidism. I became

extremely unwell on levothyroxine-only and regained my health only on

natural thyroid extract. I would now be wheelchair bound had I not found

natural thyroid extract. I wouldn't wish my worse enemy to suffer what

I had been forced to suffer within the NHS.

Sheila

[Guest guest]

Trish wrote:

>

>

>

>

> 1/2 pound of beef is not 1 Kg ..at least not where I come from

I said " roughly " to simplify the calculation. When was the last time you

ate exactly 1/2 pound of beef? The nearest steak house to me has a

minimum size order of 12 ounces, which is 50% more than what we were

considering.

1 pound = 2.2 kg. So, 1/2 pound = 1.1 kg, roughly 1 kg.

Which planet do you come from?

Chuck

[Guest guest]

OTOH I suggest she's got a good grasp on exactly what the

recommendations are. I don't have any trouble following Roni's

discussion of them.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Trish " fielddot@...

>

<mailto:fielddot@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Experience%20with%20%22other%22%20\

thyroid%20meds>

> trishruk <trishruk>

>

>

> Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:50 pm (PST)

>

>

>

>

>

> You seem to me to be somewhat muddled in your understanding of what

> Sheila recommends ...if you carefully re-read all that she had written

> you will then understand.

>

>

> >

> > Sheila, I have no particular ax to grind with you. I have�not been

> on your list and I have not had any confrontation with you. I am

> simply going by what you say.

> > �

> > The fact that you are telling your list members that a product

> without T4 or T3 is going to help them with hypothyroidism is

> incredible. Hypothyroidism is a serious illness, and without the

> proper hormones to replace what their body is not making or absorbing

> they will die. How can you, in good conscience tell these people that

> they will get better with something that could not possibly make them

> better because it's not what their bodies need?

[Guest guest]

I understood what you meant. Thank you.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

> 

>

> No wonder I always feel better after eating a beef meal. After reading

> all the negative admonitions about beef, I thought I must be imagining

> things, but your post shows me

> again that even if I don't know what's going on, my body does.

Other meats and fish should have similar levels of thyroid hormones and

metabolic products. I suspect your body is approving more of the

balanced mix of amino acids and calories than thyroid content. Our point

was that with the active hormones removed, the glandular material is

very similar to any other body tissue, except you have to pay a lot more

for it.

Chuck

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

As I've mentioned before, I have no real knowledge of your your systems work. I

do know that things can change if enough people stand up and dissent. I would

hope you are involved in getting groups together to bombard the government and

the medical establishment in your country with emails, letters, phone calls and

whatever you can think of to get them to start listening. A million medical

sufferers might make an impression if they marched on your Houses of Commons and

Lords. I wish I knew what would help. Many people here buy their hormones from

Canada. Is there no way to do that for those in your country? It might me worth

trying to get in touch with some people there to see what pathways could be

opend up for all of you.

 

In any case, good luck to you all.

 

 

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: SheilaT <sheilaturner@...>

Subject: Re: Experience with " other " thyroid meds

hypothyroidism

Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 7:11 AM

>

> Sheila,

> I don't question your I.Q. and education, I question your honesty and

integrity. It is unconscionable to recommend something for these

suffering people who have come to you for help that you know is not

going to stop their decline, only cause them to spend money neddlessly.

>

Roni,  What would be in it for me to be the cause of such suffering and

a decline in such sufferers health?  Perhaps if you were a member of my

forum, you would actually see that I try to do whatever I can to stop

such suffering. Honesty means telling the truth. Integrity means having

high moral character and living by a strict set of ethics and

principals. One can be honest without integrity, but you can't have

integrity without honesty. I don't have any worries about my honesty and

integrity and can live with myself happily.

I have spent well over 6 years of my life doing little else but working

up to 12 hours a day at times trying to help those with the symptoms of

hypothyroidism who are being left to suffer needlessly. They are being

left to suffer because doctors are not given the proper training on the

best way to reach a proper diagnose, and for those folk who are lucky to

get diagnosed, doctors are not trained in how to treat them properly, or

they refuse to give them a choice of threatment. I spend my life

campaigning to bring about changes in this field. Be assured, that any

recommendation I make does have the ability to help stop their decline.

Many sufferers are doing very well taking  thyroid glandulars and

adrenal glandulars. I do appreciate that many people have been forced to

leave paid employment and are trying to exist on State Benefits. I try

to ensure they do not spend their money needlessly.

I am a diagnosed sufferer of (Hashimoto's) hypothyroidism. I became

extremely unwell on levothyroxine-only and regained my health only on

natural thyroid extract. I would now be wheelchair bound had I not found

natural thyroid extract.  I wouldn't wish my worse enemy to suffer what

I had been forced to suffer within the NHS.

Sheila

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I take 125mcg t4 at around 2.30am. I take most supplements at around 10.30am

which is about 90mins after my breakfast.

Adding in the glandulars made a big difference for me. I stopped taking them

for a week to see " what was what " ...my temps went slightly down and so did I.

I would have wished it otherwise because I would prefer not to take anything.

> > > �

> > > > Such supplements are especially useful when a patient's

> > > > thyroid gland function tests are within the reference range, yet they

> > > > have symptoms and signs of hypothyroidism, and their doctor refuses them

> > > > a diagnosis and therefore, no thyroid hormone replacement.

> > > >

> > > This claim makes no sense at all. Your members will be buying something

that they think can help them. That's not so. Their doctor isn't helping, and

this won't either. They need another doctor, not another useless supplement.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>I said " roughly " to simplify the calculation. When was the last time you ate

exactly 1/2 pound of beef? The nearest steak house to me has a minimum size

order of 12 ounces, which is 50% more than what we were

considering.

I consider the above statement to be obfuscation.

Just for accuracy's sake, you did not say " roughly " a half a pound of beef is

1kg, what you wrote was 1/2 pound of beef is about 1 kg.

>Which planet do you come from?

LOL ...is that an add horrible attack

On the planet I inhabit, 2.2 POUNDS = 1 KILO n'est pas!

Trish

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > 1/2 pound of beef is not 1 Kg ..at least not where I come from

>

> I said " roughly " to simplify the calculation. When was the last time you

> ate exactly 1/2 pound of beef? The nearest steak house to me has a

> minimum size order of 12 ounces, which is 50% more than what we were

> considering.

>

> 1 pound = 2.2 kg. So, 1/2 pound = 1.1 kg, roughly 1 kg.

>

> Which planet do you come from?

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, I see. You are on thyroid hormone. I'm so glad that you are getting the

extra support that you feel you need from the extract and not using it as your

only medication.

 

.. Only speaking from my own experince, could it be possible that you would do

better on the T4 if you were also taking T3 along with it? I have always found

T4 to be inadequate for me, and recently (the Armour fiasco) it made me ill when

they tried to add it to the T3 only I was taking. I'm currently having a go

around with another endo (they're endless) who is reducing my T3 and then wants

to ad some T4. The last doctor did the same thing and it didn't work. This one

is supposed to be " a great doctor " so I hear from everyone, and a patient can't

even get an appt with him with out a recommendation from a doctor. I'm letting

him try, because if I can tolerate some T4 without manufacturing too much T3 it

will be easier on me.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: Trish <fielddot@...>

Subject: Re: Experience with " other " thyroid meds

hypothyroidism

Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 11:22 AM

I take 125mcg t4 at around 2.30am.  I take most supplements at around 10.30am

which is about 90mins after my breakfast. 

Adding in the glandulars made a big difference for me.  I stopped taking them

for a week to see " what was what " ...my temps went slightly down and so did I. 

I would have wished it otherwise because I would prefer not to take anything.

> > > �

> > > > Such supplements are especially useful when a patient's

> > > > thyroid gland function tests are within the reference range, yet they

> > > > have symptoms and signs of hypothyroidism, and their doctor refuses them

> > > > a diagnosis and therefore, no thyroid hormone replacement.

> > > >

> > > This claim makes no sense at all. Your members will be buying something

that they think can help them. That's not so. Their doctor isn't helping, and

this won't either. They need another doctor, not another useless supplement.

> >

>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Trish, this is hysterical.

 

You wrote:

 

Just for accuracy's sake, you did not say " roughly " a half a pound of beef is

1kg, what you wrote was 1/2 pound of beef is about 1 kg. 

Let's be real here. Roughly is equal to About.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: Trish <fielddot@...>

Subject: Re: Experience with " other " thyroid meds

hypothyroidism

Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 11:33 AM

>I said " roughly " to simplify the calculation. When was the last time you ate

exactly 1/2 pound of beef? The nearest steak house to me has a minimum size

order of 12 ounces, which is 50% more than what we were

considering.

I consider the above statement to be obfuscation.

Just for accuracy's sake, you did not say " roughly " a half a pound of beef is

1kg, what you wrote was 1/2 pound of beef is about 1 kg. 

>Which planet do you come from?

LOL ...is that an add horrible attack

On the planet I inhabit, 2.2 POUNDS = 1 KILO n'est pas!

Trish

> > 

> >

> >

> >

> > 1/2 pound of beef is not 1 Kg ..at least not where I come from

>

> I said " roughly " to simplify the calculation. When was the last time you

> ate exactly 1/2 pound of beef? The nearest steak house to me has a

> minimum size order of 12 ounces, which is 50% more than what we were

> considering.

>

> 1 pound = 2.2 kg. So, 1/2 pound = 1.1 kg, roughly 1 kg.

>

> Which planet do you come from?

>

> Chuck

>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Nutri-Meds claims that their thyroid product contains the complete

gland, and that NOTHING has been removed. If that is the case it would

have both T4 and T3. Yet they appear to be selling it without a

prescription. The differences between that and Armour appear to be that

the levels of T4 and T3 are not balanced at all and that it comes from a

pig rather than a cow. The inert ingredients are also probably different.

..

..

> The whole thyroid gland is simply desiccated (freeze dried), which

> then concentrates the natural constituents. Nothing is added or removed.

..

..

The current page

[<http://www.nutri-meds.com/Nutri_Meds_Desiccated_Porcine_Thyroid_Capsules_p/nm-\

g-ptc.htm>]

has the above statement [which comes from Google's cache] removed.

How can they sell an Armour substitute with full strength T4 and T3

without a prescription?

..

..

>

> Posted by: " SheilaT " sheilaturner@...

>

<mailto:sheilaturner@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Experience%20with%20%22oth\

er%22%20thyroid%20meds>

> campaigner77 <campaigner77>

>

>

> Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:20 am (PST)

>

>

>

>

> How are you comparing 1.6mcg T3 and 66mcg of T4 in half a pound of beef

> to 130 mg of thyroxine free thyroid extract Chuck? The measure of

> calcitonin is not published because it is not measured, in the same way

> the other hormones and enzymes in natural extract are not measured. They

> only ever measure T4 and T3 levels.

[Guest guest]

If anyone has a list of ingredients of Nutri-Thyroid [by the

manufacturer or otherwise] will you please post them, or a link?

Thanks,

..

..

>

> Posted by: " SheilaT " sheilaturner@...

>

<mailto:sheilaturner@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Experience%20with%20%22oth\

er%22%20thyroid%20meds>

> campaigner77 <campaigner77>

>

>

> Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:20 am (PST)

>

>

>

>

> How are you comparing 1.6mcg T3 and 66mcg of T4 in half a pound of beef

> to 130 mg of thyroxine free thyroid extract Chuck?

[Guest guest]

Here is a site with the ingredients listed. You will have to click on consumer

information after you scroll down. It's starred and written in tiny script.

 

http://www.lifestylenaturalhealth.co.uk/nutri-thyroid-i1038.html

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: Re: Experience with " other " thyroid meds

hypothyroidism

Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 12:18 PM

If anyone has a list of ingredients of Nutri-Thyroid [by the

manufacturer or otherwise] will you please post them, or a link?

Thanks,

..

..

>

>       Posted by: " SheilaT " sheilaturner@...

>   

   <mailto:sheilaturner@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Experience%20with%20%22\

other%22%20thyroid%20meds>

>       campaigner77 <campaigner77>

>

>

>         Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:20 am (PST)

>

>

>

>

> How are you comparing 1.6mcg T3 and 66mcg of T4 in half a pound of beef

> to 130 mg of thyroxine free thyroid extract Chuck?

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I wonder where you get some of this. Please see below...

..

..

>

> Posted by: " SheilaT " sheilaturner@...

>

<mailto:sheilaturner@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Experience%20with%20%22oth\

er%22%20thyroid%20meds>

> campaigner77 <campaigner77>

>

>

> Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:19 am (PST)

>

>

>

>

> -- In hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>, <res075oh@..

> .> wrote:

> >

> > Sheila, I think I see a problem with our communication. Please see

> below...

>

> > What's wrong with that is that you can [and do] promote some quack

> > product and prevent anyone from pointing out that it's a quack

> product.

> > I suspect that's one reason Chuck left: He could not honestly be part

> > of such a deceptive undertaking. And it's one of the reasons I'm not

> so

> > bothered about being booted. After all, it was just a matter of time;

> > because you're not going to allow anyone to come on that list and

> > correct your lies with truth.

>

> I consider my self to be in excellent company - though I do appreciate

> you will need to let us have your thoughts about some of these people.

> You obviously have a very serious issue about adrenal and thyroid

> glandulars,

..

..

Have I been discussing adrenal glandulars with you? Or with anyone else

on this list?

..

..

> so much so that if you really do care about those sufferers

> who have been duped into taking them, you really must go to the horses

> mouth and take up this issue with the manufacturers

..

..

In which Bible is it written that I must do that? I care about those

duped and I try to do what I can on this list to provide information

that will allow patients to make informed decisions. I don't have to

follow any directives from you.

..

..

> and with those

> " Quacks " who appear to have the same lack of " spectacular education " as

> me (as written by you) such as Dr Lowe, Dr Brownstein, Shomon, Dr

> Holtorf , Dr Adrienne Clamp and numerous others, plus the manufacturers

> of the thyroid glandulars mentioned below.

..

..

You don't have to be ignorant to sell quack products; all you need is

for your customers to be ignorant. Given the great care with which the

typical quack site words the boiler plate I'm convinced someone there

typically will have fairly good education and probably IQ, or will have

access to the services of someone who does. If you're the seller it

will probably help you to sleep at night if you're not burdened with ethics.

..

..

> Dr. Brownstein

..

..

I have long ago placed anything written by Dr. Brownstein in my mental

trash bin, and won't be wasting my time reading same.

..

..

> mentioned the

> glandular thyroid supplement GTA Forte from Biotics. Some other

> over-the-counter thyroid glandulars include Nutri-Meds Porcine Thyroid

> Glandular Concentrate Capsules and Tablets

> <http://www.nutri-meds.com/thyroid_supplements_s/33.htm

> <http://www.nutri-meds.com/thyroid_supplements_s/33.htm>> and RLC's Hypo

> Support Formula

> <http://www.thyroidscience.us/general/latest.updates.htm

> <http://www.thyroidscience.us/general/latest.updates.htm>> . These are

> non-prescription dietary desiccated thyroid products with ONLY the T4

> removed, meaning they provide the active T3. Dr. Lowe has provided

> some guidelines for patients on how these glandulars are used

> <http://www.drlowe.com/emailnewsletter/2009archive6.htm

> <http://www.drlowe.com/emailnewsletter/2009archive6.htm>> , but it's

> generally recommended that you use these products only under a doctors

> guidance, which, in the UK National Health Service, is impossible to do,

> so we seek the services of private doctors who work outside mainstream

> guidelines. Check out the following too

> http://www.thyroidscience.us/info/Q & As/Q & As.Nutri.Thyroid.7.htm

> <http://www.thyroidscience.us/info/Q & As/Q & As.Nutri.Thyroid.7.htm>

> <http://www.thyroidscience.us/info/Q & As/Q & As.Nutri.Thyroid.7.htm

> <http://www.thyroidscience.us/info/Q & As/Q & As.Nutri.Thyroid.7.htm>>

>

> Was it sheer coincidence, or was it part of an agenda, that both

> yourself and Chuck joined my forum within a couple of days of each

> other,

..

..

I don't know when Chuck joined WRT when I joined; I seem to remember he

was a member when I joined. I had no discussions with him about any

agenda on your site, and as a matter of fact I had none beyond learning

what I could about my hypothyroidism and providing whatever help I could

to anyone there or elsewhere who needed it.

..

..

> and almost immediately started to rubbish our recommendations of

> adrenal and thyroid glandulars for some of our members.

..

..

I don't recall discussing adrenal glandulars there. Someone asked about

the effacy of Nutri-Thyroid and I gave my opinion that it was basically

very expensive hamburger, but that is not an adrenal glandular. When I

was attacked for that statement chuck supported it. I have stated here

and elsewhere that to whatever extent the active ingredients of

glandulars are removed those products become " expensive hamburger " . The

trace remnants of hormones and such things as minerals or amino acids

are not of sufficient quantity to be helpful if what you need is real

medicine.

..

..

> You sent in a

> message calling one of my medical advisers a " quack " .

..

..

The fact is I had no idea that Dr. Peatfield was your adviser. I had no

idea that he promoted Nutri-thyroid. I had no idea that you promoted

Nutri-Thyroid. I didn't call him or any other doctor there a quack.

Your charges are complete fabrications; outright lies.

> I warned you not

> to rubbish doctors online as doing so could cause problems for the

> doctor concerned, and who could take legal action against the writer.

..

..

You sent no such message to me because I didn't call any doctor there a

quack. That is a lie.

..

..

> I

> removed you after my moderators asked me to remove you.

..

..

I can imagine the kind of moderators you would probably choose, so I

won't argue with that statement.

..

..

> TPA-UK supports

> and helps those suffering, we do not create suffering as you would have

> folk believe. I also see now that you are accusing me of promoting

> " some " quack products - so tell me the names of what these are? Your

> allegations are appalling.

>

> Chuck has already posted the reason he left my forum. I refused to allow

> him to post lots of references on science on the main support forum,

> after I had already posted one reference to the particular science in

> question, and although I appreciated that he was trying to help me, I

> saw his new posting as a chance to open a new thread on the Science

> (LABGAB) forum. I rejected that message and asked him to post it onto

> LABGAB instead, which he refused to do, and decided to leave. He was

> treated with politeness, as you were, at all times. Chuck called me a

> " bully " for what I did. It never occured to me that I was a bully, and

> if he felt that, then that was his problem.

>

> I take exception to you making allegations that he unsubscribed I was

> promoting what you (or he) decided is a " quack product " . I do check out

> products before recommending them to my members. I also check out

> supplements that have been recommended for me before taking them, as

> any sensible person would do, and I will continue to do so.

..

..

You have a rather strange memory, but whatever. Is there any way you

can post a link to the actual specific ingredients of Nutri-thyroid? I

am very much interested to find any specific indication that it has as

much T3 as Armour does.

..

..

>

> Sheila

[Guest guest]

> Posted by: " SheilaT " sheilaturner@...

>

<mailto:sheilaturner@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Experience%20with%20%22oth\

er%22%20thyroid%20meds>

> campaigner77 <campaigner77>

>

>

> Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:15 am (PST)

>

> .

[...]

..

> Be assured, that any

> recommendation I make does have the ability to help stop their decline.

> Many sufferers are doing very well taking thyroid glandulars

..

..

Well, that's not what you posted. You posted that you recommend

patients take Nurti-Thyroid until their conditions declines to the

extent that hypothyroidism is finally diagnosed and they get proper

treatment [hopefully]. At that point the NT is discontinued.

ly to me is confusing as to exactly what you're claiming. You

claim NT has all of the natural T3 in it; I have been unable to confirm

that but let's assume for a moment it's a fact. My question to you then

becomes, " Exactly WHAT is your problem??? " You should be able to treat

hypo well and indefinitely with a sufficient quantity of T3 alone in

most cases. Why not forget about Armour or any other product in you

fights with the socialist healthcare system in the UK and just treat

with NT?

SERIOUSLY. If NT has as much T3 in it as Armour does then my

description of it as " expensive hamburger " isn't accurate; as that much

T3 should be an effective medicine. At least I'd think it would;

although you'd probably have to take more of it in most cases.

But then if the claims are correct re: Nutri-Meds in that nothing is

taken out you could have both T4 and T3 in one product [medicine?

supplement?], and apparently no prescription needed.

I'm sure I'm fallen off the wagon somewhere here, because the claims

just don't add up.

[Guest guest]

Trish,

You wrote:

>

> On the planet I inhabit, 2.2 POUNDS = 1 KILO n'est pas!

Mea culpa! My planet too.

So, let's use a 12 oz. minimum steak. That is just over 1/3 kg. Cut my

numbers by 1/3, and it is still a lot more than is allowed in otc

thyroid extract.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

How bad were your bones before you started that supplement? How good are your

bones now?

Do you have test values for these two states of bone density? What is it in the

supplement that you feel improved your bone density?

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: SheilaT <sheilaturner@...>

Subject: Re: Experience with " other " thyroid meds

hypothyroidism

Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 2:20 AM

How are you comparing 1.6mcg T3 and 66mcg of T4 in half a pound of beef

to 130 mg of thyroxine free thyroid extract Chuck? The measure of

calcitonin  is not published because it is not measured, in the same way

the other hormones and enzymes in natural extract are not measured. They

only ever measure T4 and T3 levels.

I can only tell you that since taking natural thyroid extract almost 7

years ago now, I have had two bone scans, and both showed an improvement

in density. My consultant told me the scan showed I now have the " bones

of an elephant " - but I don't have the figure, thank goodness.

Sheila

> > Beef muscle tissue is assayed at 1.57 ng/ml for T3 and 66 ng/ml for

T4.

> >

> > J Anim Sci 1981. 52:1437-1441:

> > http://jas.fass.org/cgi/reprint/52/6/1437.pdf

> >

> > 1/2 pound of beef is about 1 kg. Then, you have about 1.6 mcg of T3

and

> > 66 mcg of T4 in a modest dinner. The detectable limit set by the FDA

for

> > OTC sales is around 0.5 mcg for both T4 and T3. Thus, you get about

> > three times the T3 and well over 100 times the T4 in a steak than in

an

> > OTC extract.

> >

> > The catch is that the steak must be eaten rare, as cooking destroys

all

> > the thyroid hormones. We have mentioned that before also.

> >

> > Calcitonin is a littler harder to nail down, but the circulating

value

> > is 6.5 picomole/L. I'll let you figure out how much is in the

extract,

> > since the manufacturers don't seem to want to publicize this.

> >

> > Chuck

> >

>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

,

You wrote:

>

> ly to me is confusing as to exactly what you're claiming. You

> claim NT has all of the natural T3 in it; I have been unable to confirm

> that but let's assume for a moment it's a fact. ...

A number of web sites claim that thyroid glandulars have had the T4

removed but still contain all the T3. However, both active forms are

prohibited for over the counter sales by 21 CFR 310 and 330-358, which

governs otc drugs. If the levels of either T3 or T4 were high enough to

have much effect, they would be regulated as drugs. Only if the levels

are at about the limit of easy detection can they be classed as

supplements.

Secondly, the process for removal of T4 is an alcohol wash. They puree

the glands in the presence of ethanol, which will dissolve both T3 and

T4, as well as some of the other metabolites. A process that would

remove T4 only would be prohibitively expensive.

Finally, the suppliers I have seen all put a limit on the number of

doses you should take in one day. I suspect that gives a safe margin

above the upper limit of the regulations. That in turn again means that

T3 would be limited along with the T4. In fact, since the T3 is more

potent, I would expect that it is the residual T3 that sets the maximum

one day dose.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

In case any of you haven't seen it I've posted a correction; should by

Armour is from pigs. I think...

>

> Posted by: " " res075oh@...

>

<mailto:res075oh@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Experience%20with%20%22other%22%\

20thyroid%20meds>

> jamesl33511 <jamesl33511>

>

>

> Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:17 pm (PST)

>

>

>

> Nutri-Meds claims that their thyroid product contains the complete

> gland, and that NOTHING has been removed. If that is the case it would

> have both T4 and T3. Yet they appear to be selling it without a

> prescription. The differences between that and Armour appear to be that

> the levels of T4 and T3 are not balanced at all and that it comes from a

> pig rather than a cow. The inert ingredients are also probably different.

> .

> .

> > The whole thyroid gland is simply desiccated (freeze dried), which

> > then concentrates the natural constituents. Nothing is added or removed.

> .

> .

> The current page

>

[<http://www.nutri-meds.com/Nutri_Meds_Desiccated_Porcine_Thyroid_Capsules_p/nm-\

g-ptc.htm

>

<http://www.nutri-meds.com/Nutri_Meds_Desiccated_Porcine_Thyroid_Capsules_p/nm-g\

-ptc.htm>>]

>

> has the above statement [which comes from Google's cache] removed.

>

> How can they sell an Armour substitute with full strength T4 and T3

> without a prescription?

>

>

> .

> .

[Guest guest]

Roni, I appreciate the attempt but I need more help. If I click on

" Consumer Information " on that page here is the page I get:

..

<http://www.lifestylenaturalhealth.co.uk/disclaimer-c89.html>

..

..

The only thing I see there is a general listing of information that

pertains to all their products. I don't see a listing of the

ingredients of Nutri Thyroid anywhere. Would you please confirm your link?

Sheila keeps telling me that NT contains T3; but I can't confirm that

anywhere. The original page you sent lists as ingredients only 140 mg

thyroid concentrate, and further states: " ... Nutri Thyroid provides

hormone-free thyroid concentrate, to nutritionally support this

regulatory gland. "

..

..

Since both T3 and T4 are hormones then this site selling it states it

has neither T4 nor T3. All of my posts about NT have assumed that this

site and sites like it are correct.

Thanks,

..

..

>

> Here is a site with the ingredients listed. You will have to click on

> consumer information after you scroll down. It's starred and written

> in tiny script.

>

> http://www.lifestylenaturalhealth.co.uk/nutri-thyroid-i1038.html

> <http://www.lifestylenaturalhealth.co.uk/nutri-thyroid-i1038.html>

>

> <>Roni

> Immortality exists!

> It's called knowledge!

>

> Just because something isn't seen

> doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: Experience with " other " thyroid meds

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 12:18 PM

>

> If anyone has a list of ingredients of Nutri-Thyroid [by the

> manufacturer or otherwise] will you please post them, or a link?

>

> Thanks,

>

[Guest guest]

If they measure T3 in Nutri Thyroid then please tell me how much T3 is

in it. You've repeatedly stated that the T3 is not removed and I've

repeatedly suggested that is not correct. It appears one of us must be

wrong, and I'm trying to find out for sure which it is.

I did find a site in the UK selling NT that states that it is hormone

free. The site is Lifestyle Natural Health and here is the link:

..

..

<http://www.lifestylenaturalhealth.co.uk/nutri-thyroid-i1038.html>

..

..

Here is the copy where they claim NT is hormone free:

..

..

*Description*

*Nutri Thyroid

**Thyroid Gland Concentrate

*

Thyroid hormones regulate metabolic rate, body temperature and cellular

repair. Nutri Thyroid provides hormone-free thyroid concentrate, to

nutritionally support this regulatory gland.

Thyroid concentrate contains the amino acids required to support healthy

function of the thyroid gland.

*

Recommendation:* 1-3 tablets daily with food, or as directed

*

------------------------------------------------------------------------

**Ingredients:* Each tablet typically contains: Thyroid concentrate*

140mg (*Bovine source from New Zealand)

..

..

Since T4 and T3 are both hormones they're claiming it _DOES NOT_ have T3.

If you have a site that contradicts the above please post it.

Now, to confuse matters further Nutri-Meds claims their thyroid

glandular product contains all of the natural thyroid; nothing is

removed [that would mean both T4 and T3]. But Dr. Lowe states that

is incorrect; that there is no T4 in Nutri-Med's product.

Thanks,

..

..

> Posted by: " SheilaT " sheilaturner@...

> <mailto:sheilaturner%40tpa-uk.org.uk>

> > <mailto:sheilaturner@...

> <mailto:sheilaturner%40tpa-uk.org.uk>?Subject=%20Re%

> 3A%20Experience%20with%20%22other%22%20thyroid%20meds>

> > campaigner77 <campaigner77

> <campaigner77>>

> >

> >

> > Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:20 am (PST)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > How are you comparing 1.6mcg T3 and 66mcg of T4 in half a pound of beef

> > to 130 mg of thyroxine free thyroid extract Chuck? The measure of

> > calcitonin is not published because it is not measured, in the same way

> > the other hormones and enzymes in natural extract are not measured. They

> > only ever measure T4 and T3 levels.

[Guest guest]

Here's a different site. I checked the other that you have, and it didn't give

the information that it had before. It seems they've changed their labels and

information regarding this product.

 

http://www.schawel.com/nutri-meds-supplements-re-brand/2009/07/26/

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: Experience with " other " thyroid meds

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 12:18 PM

>

> If anyone has a list of ingredients of Nutri-Thyroid [by the

> manufacturer or otherwise] will you please post them, or a link?

>

> Thanks,

>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Here is the information from that site for NutriMed Bovine.

 

Now, this is what it says. It contains NO thyroid hormones.  It contains 140 mgs

of Bovine thyroid concentrate in each capsule. It says NOTHING about containing

thyroid hormone. In fact it clearly states that it does not. It is a nutritional

support for the thyroid gland, that's all.

 

Nutri Thyroid

Thyroid Gland Concentrate

Thyroid hormones regulate metabolic rate, body temperature and cellular repair.

Nutri Thyroid provides hormone-free thyroid concentrate, to nutritionally

support this regulatory gland.

Thyroid concentrate contains the amino acids required to support healthy

function of the thyroid gland. 

Recommendation: 1-3 tablets daily with food, or as directed

Ingredients: Each tablet typically contains: Thyroid concentrate* 140mg (*Bovine

source from New Zealand)

Tableted with: Dicalcium phosphate Microcrystalline cellulose Silicon dioxide

Stearic acid

Caution: None known if directions are followed.

Information on this site is not intended to recommend any supplement other than

for nutritional purposes. Consult with your health care professional if you have

an existing medical condition. Do not take these products if pregnant, planning

pregnancy or breast-feeding without first consulting your health care

professional

*  Consumer information

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: Re: Experience with " other " thyroid meds

hypothyroidism , " JAMES " <res075oh@...>

Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 6:33 PM

If they measure T3 in Nutri Thyroid then please tell me how much T3 is

in it.  You've repeatedly stated that the T3 is not removed and I've

repeatedly suggested that is not correct.  It appears one of us must be

wrong, and I'm trying to find out for sure which it is.

I did find a site in the UK selling NT that states that it is hormone

free.  The site is Lifestyle Natural Health and here is the link:

..

..

<http://www.lifestylenaturalhealth.co.uk/nutri-thyroid-i1038.html>

..

..

Here is the copy where they claim NT is hormone free:

..

..

*Description*

*Nutri Thyroid

**Thyroid Gland Concentrate

*

Thyroid hormones regulate metabolic rate, body temperature and cellular

repair. Nutri Thyroid provides hormone-free thyroid concentrate, to

nutritionally support this regulatory gland.

Thyroid concentrate contains the amino acids required to support healthy

function of the thyroid gland.

*

Recommendation:* 1-3 tablets daily with food, or as directed

*

------------------------------------------------------------------------

**Ingredients:* Each tablet typically contains: Thyroid concentrate*

140mg (*Bovine source from New Zealand)

..

..

Since T4 and T3 are both hormones they're claiming it _DOES NOT_ have T3.

If you have a site that contradicts the above please post it.

Now, to confuse matters further Nutri-Meds claims their thyroid

glandular product contains all of the natural thyroid; nothing is

removed [that would mean both T4 and T3].  But Dr. Lowe states that

is incorrect; that there is no T4 in Nutri-Med's product.

Thanks,

..

..

> Posted by: " SheilaT " sheilaturner@...

> <mailto:sheilaturner%40tpa-uk.org.uk>

> > <mailto:sheilaturner@...

> <mailto:sheilaturner%40tpa-uk.org.uk>?Subject=%20Re%

> 3A%20Experience%20with%20%22other%22%20thyroid%20meds>

> > campaigner77 <campaigner77

> <campaigner77>>

> >

> >

> > Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:20 am (PST)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > How are you comparing 1.6mcg T3 and 66mcg of T4 in half a pound of beef

> > to 130 mg of thyroxine free thyroid extract Chuck? The measure of

> > calcitonin is not published because it is not measured, in the same way

> > the other hormones and enzymes in natural extract are not measured. They

> > only ever measure T4 and T3 levels.

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

That site is a total bust too. Thanks for trying.

They may have changed their site because they [or the FDA] found out

they were advertising their Nutri-Med thyroid product as having the T3

and T4 still in it; a violation of federal law for an OTC product. IMHO

they probably weren't actually selling an illegal product; just

advertising it.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

>

<mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Experience%20with%20%22other%22\

%20thyroid%20meds>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

>

> Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:25 pm (PST)

>

>

>

> Here's a different site. I checked the other that you have, and it

> didn't give the information that it had before. It seems they've

> changed their labels and information regarding this product.

>

> http://www.schawel.com/nutri-meds-supplements-re-brand/2009/07/26/

> <http://www.schawel.com/nutri-meds-supplements-re-brand/2009/07/26/>

>

> <>Roni