Re: UK HEALTHCARE PROBLEMS. WAS: Fw: Re:Rationing

January 13, 2010

There have got to be people under any healthcare system in any country that are

not happy with the system. That's a statistical fact. However, that doesn't mean

that universal healthcare is a bad or evil idea. It doesn't even necessarily

mean that the healthcare has to be government run. It only means that every one

is entitled to the healthcare. I do take issue with people here illegally

though. I believe that illegals should not be jailed, but just detained and sent

back home on the first available transportation. I'm sure any country in the

world would do this if thousands or even millions of Americans decided to enter

their counlry and partake of it's services illegally.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: UK HEALTHCARE PROBLEMS. WAS: Fw: Re:Rationing

hypothyroidism

Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 8:51 PM

Somehow I completely failed to receive this message but saw it included

in someone's reply.

First, please don't shout. It makes you look like the liberal's

stereotype of the right-wing radical screaming and foaming at the mouth!

[ggg]

So you have family living abroad and they to the last person tell you

the the socialized medicine programs in the UK and Europe are truly

heaven sent. Not a single problem under the sun, right? Let's be

charitable and assume they're not all liars or nut cases. In which case

how many people are we talking about? A few dozen/hundreds/thousands?

Now let's put " problems with UK healthcare system " into Google and we

get over 12 million hits. Okay; probably some of these hits are in fact

liars and nut cases. Some may even be conservatives; or, horror of

horrors, Republicans. And some of the articles may not be all that bad

or even negative or applicable at all. Still, there are quite a lot of

people who have been concerned enough with problems in the UK healthcare

system that your relative praise so highly that I somehow suspect not

every aspect of it is created and operated by someone who walks on

water. It really looks as though for every relative you can put up to

claim that the UK socialist healthcare system could not be improved even

if it were taken over and operated by ph, and Jesus we can find

something like 10,000 or maybe 100,000 who say the opposite.

And BTW: Yes, I'm a right wing conservative; and given the options it's

pretty much certain my vote will go Republican. Hey, in less than 10

minutes I'll be 69 years old; I'm entitled to be a curmudgeon! [ggg]

..

> From: nancie barnett <deifspirit@... <mailto:deifspirit%40msn.com>>

> Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 4:15 PM

>

> I am sorry but YOU are the one who is living in a republican

> twisted

> world of LIES and misrepresentations of the truth. I have said REPEATEDLY

> that I HAVE FAMILY LIVING ABROAD WHO LOVE THEIR HEALTHCARE AND WOULD

> NEVER

> TRADE THEIR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM FOR THE BULL SHIT SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE

> HERE IN

> THE USA.

> I THINK YOU NEED TO GO LIVE THERE FOR A FEW YEARS AND ALSO LIVE IN

> CONTINENTAL EUROPE AND SEE THE BLOODY TRUTH INSTEAD OF RELYING ON

> RIGHT WING

> REPUBS WHO HAVE AN ADGENDA OF KEEPING THEMSELVES WEALTHY FROM TAKING

> MONEY

> FORM HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES.

>

> NOT EVERYTHING ON GOOGLE IS THE REALITY OR FACTUAL. YOU HAVE TO WEED

> IT OUT,

> JAMES. I KNOW YOU ARE SMARTER THAN THAT. YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER.

> MY FAMILY AND I HAVE EXPERIENCED UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE ACROSS THE GLOBE

> AND

> ALL OF IT WAS GOOD, EVEN CANADA AND MEXICO.

> NO WAITING LINES; NO EXCESSIVE WAITING PERIODS THAT ARE LONGER THAN WHAT

> OURS ARE ALREADY. WE NEVER GOT A BILL NOT ONCE EVEN THOUGH WE WERE NOT A

> CITIZEN OF THEIR COUNTRY. THE MEDICINE WAS THE SAME AS WE WOULD GET HERE-

> FROM THE SAME PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES.

>

> YOU AND I WILL NEVER AGREE ON THIS ISSUE- YOU ARE A CONSERVATIVE

> REPUBLICAN

> [ HOPEFULLY NOT A RIGHT WINGER] AND I AM A LEFT WING LIBERAL DEMOCRAT.

> I HAVE SEEN THE TRUTH ABOUT UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE ON A GLOBAL LEVEL AND

> APPARENTLY YOU HAVEN'T. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

>

> ------------

> --------------------------------------

> From: " " <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:24 AM

> <hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>>

> Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing

>

> > Nancie, you're truly living in a dream world. Try putting " problems with

> > UK healthcare system " into Google and read just a few of the first hits.

> > It puts the lie to everything you say about the healthcare system there.

> > There are over 12 million hits.

> >

> > But I know you won't dare; you're not going to look at any evidence that

> > contradicts your opinions. You're going to ignore the vast quantity of

> > data that expresses a different viewpoint that contradicts yours.

> >

> > Here's just one of the 12 million hits:

> > .

> >>

> >> *UK* Health Care *System* In Need of Repair

> >>

> >> by Carty, MD, MSPH

> >> 01-26-2008

> >>

> >> Inadequate facilities, poor quality medical and nursing care in

> >> several British hospitals cause deaths from intestinal

> infections.

> >>

> >> Imagine that you are seriously, even critically ill. You are in a

> >> dirty, rundown, understaffed hospital. The nurses, doctors, and other

> >> employees are rude, inattentive, and incompetent, and you can´t get

> >> out. What could be more terrifying?

> >>

> >> Such, apparently, was the nightmarish predicament of a number of

> >> patients with serious intestinal infections in a group of British

> >> hospitals between 2004 and 2006. An October 2007 report by the

> >> government´s Commission for *Healthcare* Audit and Inspection has

> >> exposed a number of deficiencies in the UK´s rickety government-run

> >> health care *system*, the National Health Service (NHS). The report

> >> showed that outbreaks of Clostridium difficile (C. diff.) intestinal

> >> infections in several NHS hospitals: Kent Hospital, Sussex Hospital,

> >> and Maidstone Hospital, directly caused at least 90 deaths between

> >> 2004 and 2006 and contributed to many more. C. diff. is a type of

> >> bacterium which can cause serious intestinal infections, often after

> >> the administration of antibiotics.

> >>

> >> The report documented poor quality medical and nursing care and

> >> inadequate infection control measures. Doctors made mistakes in

> >> antibiotic prescribing, fluid and nutrition management, and in many

> >> other aspects of care.

> >>

> >> Nurses frequently did not wash their hands, wear gloves and gowns,

> >> clean mattresses, empty and clean commodes, feed patients, or give

> >> patients their medications. Patients who asked for help in going to

> >> the toilet were often told to " go in the bed, " then left to lie in

> >> their own urine and stool for long periods. Patients and family

> >> members described the care as " despicable, " " sickening, " and

> " appalling, "

> >>

> >> Drity sink in clean utility room in UK hospital

> >>

> >> A sink in the " clean " utility room

> >>

> >> The NHS hospitals involved were old, dirty, and rundown. Although

> >> patients with C. diff. infection should be put in single rooms to

> >> prevent transmission of the infection to other patients, this was

> >> usually impossible. Only 10% of the hospitals´ beds were in single

> >> rooms. Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows

> >> in large rooms. One hospital had only one sink for every 6 beds, and

> >> the other two hospitals had one sink for every 12 beds.

> >>

> >> Empty apologies, empty promises.

> >>

> >> The public release of the report was followed by the usual cynical

> >> apologies and promises of reform and " zero tolerance. " In addition to

> >> the C. diff. outbreaks at Kent, Sussex, and Maidstone hospitals, a

> >> similar outbreak at another NHS hospital, Stoke Mandeville Hospital,

> >> caused 33 deaths between 2003 and 2005.

> >>

> >> Beds jammed together in a UK hospital contributed to spread of

> infection

> >>

> >> Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows in

> >> large rooms

> >>

> >> *UK* health care *system* needs a makeover.

> >>

> >> How did the *UK* end up with such a dysfunctional health care

> >> *system*? The English are prosperous, intelligent, even brilliant

> >> people. One of my medical school professors, originally from the *UK*,

> >> published the first account of a carotid endarterectomy, the operation

> >> to clean out the arteries in the neck to prevent strokes. He was

> >> famous as a surgeon, professor, and writer and operated on Winston

> >> Churchill and the King of Kuwait.

> >>

> >> Inadequate funding, poor management.

> >>

> >> Although government mismanagement is without question part of the

> >> problem, the *UK* spends much less on health care than the US. Still,

> >> the British government nationalized the health care *system* in 1948

> >> and has had over fifty years to work the kinks out of the *system*.

> >>

> >> The British people deserve better.

> >>

> > .

> > That's what you want for us???

> >

> > .

------------------------------------

January 13, 2010

Sure; but we have Nancie claiming that she knows very well a goodly

number of people with extensive experience with the socialist healthcare

systems in the UK and elsewhere, and not one single one of them ever had

any kind of complaint at all. Or at least that's the impression I get.

How likely does that seem, given the number of mistakes that humans

make; even if we had no contrary evidence at all?

But we do have contrary evidence: In fact we have over 12 million hits

on " UK healthcare problems " . I'm sure not all are valid or even in some

cases on the proper subject; but a brief perusal of the headlines

suggests there are millions that directly deal with perceived problems

with the system she lauds as perfect. Totally inconsistent with

Nancie's position. Maybe the greater part of 12 million people are

wrong and Nancie is right but the odds don't really look to good for

that. I will have to admit though that it makes about as much sense as

a lot of other liberal posits.

..

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

>

<mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20UK%20HEALTHCARE%20PROBLEMS%2E%2\

0%20WAS%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3ARationing>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

> Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:36 pm (PST)

>

> There have got to be people under any healthcare system in any country

> that are not happy with the system. That's a statistical fact.

> However, that doesn't mean that universal healthcare is a bad or evil

> idea. It doesn't even necessarily mean that the healthcare has to be

> government run. It only means that every one is entitled to the

> healthcare. I do take issue with people here illegally though. I

> believe that illegals should not be jailed, but just detained and sent

> back home on the first available transportation. I'm sure any country

> in the world would do this if thousands or even millions of Americans

> decided to enter their counlry and partake of it's services illegally.

>

> Roni

> <>Just because something

> isn't seen doesn't mean it's

> not there<>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: UK HEALTHCARE PROBLEMS. WAS: Fw: Re:Rationing

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 8:51 PM

>

> Somehow I completely failed to receive this message but saw it included

> in someone's reply.

>

> First, please don't shout. It makes you look like the liberal's

> stereotype of the right-wing radical screaming and foaming at the mouth!

> [ggg]

>

> So you have family living abroad and they to the last person tell you

> the the socialized medicine programs in the UK and Europe are truly

> heaven sent. Not a single problem under the sun, right? Let's be

> charitable and assume they're not all liars or nut cases. In which case

> how many people are we talking about? A few dozen/hundreds/

> thousands?

>

> Now let's put " problems with UK healthcare system " into Google and we

> get over 12 million hits. Okay; probably some of these hits are in fact

> liars and nut cases. Some may even be conservatives; or, horror of

> horrors, Republicans. And some of the articles may not be all that bad

> or even negative or applicable at all. Still, there are quite a lot of

> people who have been concerned enough with problems in the UK healthcare

> system that your relative praise so highly that I somehow suspect not

> every aspect of it is created and operated by someone who walks on

> water. It really looks as though for every relative you can put up to

> claim that the UK socialist healthcare system could not be improved even

> if it were taken over and operated by ph, and Jesus we can find

> something like 10,000 or maybe 100,000 who say the opposite.

>

> And BTW: Yes, I'm a right wing conservative; and given the options it's

> pretty much certain my vote will go Republican. Hey, in less than 10

> minutes I'll be 69 years old; I'm entitled to be a curmudgeon! [ggg]

>

> .

>

> > From: nancie barnett <deifspirit@...

> <mailto:deifspirit%40msn.com> <mailto:deifspirit%40msn.com>>

> > Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing

> > hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> > Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 4:15 PM

> >

> > I am sorry but YOU are the one who is living in a republican

> > twisted

> > world of LIES and misrepresentations of the truth. I have said

> REPEATEDLY

> > that I HAVE FAMILY LIVING ABROAD WHO LOVE THEIR HEALTHCARE AND WOULD

> > NEVER

> > TRADE THEIR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM FOR THE BULL SHIT SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE

> > HERE IN

> > THE USA.

> > I THINK YOU NEED TO GO LIVE THERE FOR A FEW YEARS AND ALSO LIVE IN

> > CONTINENTAL EUROPE AND SEE THE BLOODY TRUTH INSTEAD OF RELYING ON

> > RIGHT WING

> > REPUBS WHO HAVE AN ADGENDA OF KEEPING THEMSELVES WEALTHY FROM TAKING

> > MONEY

> > FORM HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES.

> >

> > NOT EVERYTHING ON GOOGLE IS THE REALITY OR FACTUAL. YOU HAVE TO WEED

> > IT OUT,

> > JAMES. I KNOW YOU ARE SMARTER THAN THAT. YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER.

> > MY FAMILY AND I HAVE EXPERIENCED UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE ACROSS THE GLOBE

> > AND

> > ALL OF IT WAS GOOD, EVEN CANADA AND MEXICO.

> > NO WAITING LINES; NO EXCESSIVE WAITING PERIODS THAT ARE LONGER THAN WHAT

> > OURS ARE ALREADY. WE NEVER GOT A BILL NOT ONCE EVEN THOUGH WE WERE NOT A

> > CITIZEN OF THEIR COUNTRY. THE MEDICINE WAS THE SAME AS WE WOULD GET

> HERE-

> > FROM THE SAME PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES.

> >

> > YOU AND I WILL NEVER AGREE ON THIS ISSUE- YOU ARE A CONSERVATIVE

> > REPUBLICAN

> > [ HOPEFULLY NOT A RIGHT WINGER] AND I AM A LEFT WING LIBERAL DEMOCRAT.

> > I HAVE SEEN THE TRUTH ABOUT UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE ON A GLOBAL LEVEL AND

> > APPARENTLY YOU HAVEN'T. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

> >

January 13, 2010

I think Nancie was just trying to make a point. Actually, I found a site showing

the satisfaction of the healthcare system of Americans vs. UK, and the UK people

were

more satisfied. This was a survey done in 2003 or 2004. Of course that doesn't

mean that everyone in the country was satisfied.