Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 It has something to do with healthcare because that homeless man with over 200,00 in his fanny pack can absolutely afford HC, but chooses to live on the tax payers monies. If you think beggin for money is a legit way to make money then you aren't realizing that they do not claim that money on their tax returns, therefore they are not paying into a system that supports them. This is un American and illeagal! If they are using this man as an example of a person without HC then how many thousands of people who can afford do not have it simply because they don't want to not because they can't afford? CW -- Re: Re:Rationing >> >> Nancie, >> >> You wrote about the AMA position: >>> >>> here is their opinion and support stance: >>> http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml >>> <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml> >> >> Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion >> to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, >> support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of >> exactly those parts to which I objected. >> >> Chuck > -- Steve - dudescholar4@... " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 We don't know whether he pays taxes or not. That is your assumption. Assuming he does not buy insurance for himself, I am against that, as well as against the couple with the 4 children who chose not to buy insurance for their family. I think everyone should purchase insurance, just like everyone who drives a car is supposed to buy insurance. It's part of living in society. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> >> I think the most important issue is that bigger government mean smaller the >> people. " We have govt run healthcare and its a HOT mess. Why would anyone >> want the govt making those systems bigger? The progressives (republicans >> and democrats) who want socialized anything need to read our constitution >> It does not guarantee the right to healthcare! >> CW >> >> -- Re: Re:Rationing >> >> Nancie, >> >> You wrote about the AMA position: >>> >>> here is their opinion and support stance: >>> http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml >>> <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml> >> >> Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion >> to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, >> support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of >> exactly those parts to which I objected. >> >> Chuck > -- Steve - dudescholar4@... " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I am the family that chose not to buy insurance in order to buy groceries. We paid our bill. We did not live off the system. We did not have food stamps or any government aid. We received medical care without insurance and we paid our bill. If everyone who received medical care would pay their bill we wouldn't have the health insurance mess we have now. If we went to the doctor we wanted and paid him we would not have all the middle men. Prices would come down. Insurance is not a right or the answer. beebe From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ] On Behalf Of Roni Molin Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:24 PM hypothyroidism Subject: Re: Re:Rationing We don't know whether he pays taxes or not. That is your assumption. Assuming he does not buy insurance for himself, I am against that, as well as against the couple with the 4 children who chose not to buy insurance for their family. I think everyone should purchase insurance, just like everyone who drives a car is supposed to buy insurance. It's part of living in society. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> >> I think the most important issue is that bigger government mean smaller the >> people. " We have govt run healthcare and its a HOT mess. Why would anyone >> want the govt making those systems bigger? The progressives (republicans >> and democrats) who want socialized anything need to read our constitution >> It does not guarantee the right to healthcare! >> CW >> >> -- Re: Re:Rationing >> >> Nancie, >> >> You wrote about the AMA position: >>> >>> here is their opinion and support stance: >>> http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml >>> <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml> >> >> Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion >> to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, >> support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of >> exactly those parts to which I objected. >> >> Chuck > -- Steve - dudescholar4@... <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net> " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I am the family that chose not to buy insurance in order to buy groceries. We paid our bill. We did not live off the system. We did not have food stamps or any government aid. We received medical care without insurance and we paid our bill. We did not run and ask everyone else to pay our bills, we took that responsibility. If everyone who received medical care would pay their bill we wouldn't have the health insurance mess we have now. If we went to the doctor we wanted and paid him we would not have all the middle men. Prices would come down. beebe From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ] On Behalf Of Roni Molin Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:24 PM hypothyroidism Subject: Re: Re:Rationing We don't know whether he pays taxes or not. That is your assumption. Assuming he does not buy insurance for himself, I am against that, as well as against the couple with the 4 children who chose not to buy insurance for their family. I think everyone should purchase insurance, just like everyone who drives a car is supposed to buy insurance. It's part of living in society. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 You were very lucky. Your life worked out. That doesn't mean that everyone is as lucky as you. I think you would have a very different story if you had come down with cancer or a spinal cord injury or any number of debilitating and costly illnesses. Your guns would not help you then, no matter where you're from, even Utah. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> >> >> and whx portions do you object to? > > I already gave you the specific paragraphs. If those sections setting up > a committee to ration care in the face of shortages are so benign, why > did congress need to make expensive back room deals, the Cornhusker > Kickback, the Louisiana Purchase, to get Democrats to vote for it? > > There are several causes for the current high costs of health insurance. > One is covering the cost of frivolous law suits. Yet, there is no > mention of tort reform in the bill. Nor did I see any provision for > improving the competency of medical providers, which seems to be the > most common complaint with the current system voiced on this list. > > Another major cost factor is that state governments have negotiated > large price breaks for state employees in exchange for effective > insurance monopolies. The result is that the favored few insurance > companies in those states can raise rates with impunity to make everyone > else subsidize the savings to the state. Some states are much worse than > others, so the cost of care varies wildly from state to state. > > My son's family is one of the many who have been priced out of health > insurance, because he lives in one state but is employed in California. > My son and his company cannot afford the out of state rates, but they > are not allowed to buy from a much more competitive company from my > son's home state, at about half the price. We could cover a near > majority of the estimated uninsured by simply prohibiting state > governments from interfering with free trade and competition. > > Chuck -- Steve - dudescholar4@... " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I don't think you are remotely acquainted with the majority of the people that you speak about, so therefore your conclusions are not based on fact, but on supposition. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> >> >> >> From: Crystal<sweetnwright@...> >> Subject: Re: Re:Rationing >> hypothyroidism >> Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 7:51 AM >> >> >> I think the most important issue is that bigger government mean smaller " the >> people. " We have govt run healthcare and its a HOT mess. Why would anyone >> want the govt making those systems bigger? The progressives (republicans >> and democrats) who want socialized anything need to read our constitution. >> It does not guarantee the right to healthcare! >> CW >> >> -- Re: Re:Rationing >> >> Nancie, >> >> You wrote about the AMA position: >>> >>> here is their opinion and support stance: >>> http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml >>> <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml> >> >> Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion >> to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, >> support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of >> exactly those parts to which I objected. >> >> Chuck > -- Steve - dudescholar4@... " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Since that is the system we have now, it's the only way most people can afford to have healthcare. You stated that it took you quite some time to pay for a single operation. If the illness was ongoing and costs thousands and thousands of dollars for a long time, it's doubtful that you would be able to pay for the healthcare that would be needed. You and your family are gambling with everyone else's money. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> >> I think the most important issue is that bigger government mean smaller the >> people. " We have govt run healthcare and its a HOT mess. Why would anyone >> want the govt making those systems bigger? The progressives (republicans >> and democrats) who want socialized anything need to read our constitution >> It does not guarantee the right to healthcare! >> CW >> >> -- Re: Re:Rationing >> >> Nancie, >> >> You wrote about the AMA position: >>> >>> here is their opinion and support stance: >>> http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml >>> <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml> >> >> Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion >> to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, >> support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of >> exactly those parts to which I objected. >> >> Chuck > -- Steve - dudescholar4@... <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net> " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Instead of taxing everyone into oblivion with a health bill that is stuffed with pork, bribes and kickbacks there needs to be real reform. I don't think anyone believes that we don't need reform because we do. It is ridiculous how much things cost. The 2020 page bill they have now is lining the pockets of a lot of people and taking it from us. This plan is crippling small business and the unemployment rate is rising. There needs to be a patient centered system of consumer choice and free market competition. By the way, I am not gambling with anyone else's money. When I didn't have insurance I paid my bills. When we could afford insurance we purchased it. It is no one else's responsibility to take care of me. I am not entitled to anyone else's money. But yes the system is broken and needs reform. Beebe From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ] On Behalf Of Roni Molin Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:12 PM hypothyroidism Subject: RE: Re:Rationing Since that is the system we have now, it's the only way most people can afford to have healthcare. You stated that it took you quite some time to pay for a single operation. If the illness was ongoing and costs thousands and thousands of dollars for a long time, it's doubtful that you would be able to pay for the healthcare that would be needed. You and your family are gambling with everyone else's money. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> >> I think the most important issue is that bigger government mean smaller the >> people. " We have govt run healthcare and its a HOT mess. Why would anyone >> want the govt making those systems bigger? The progressives (republicans >> and democrats) who want socialized anything need to read our constitution >> It does not guarantee the right to healthcare! >> CW >> >> -- Re: Re:Rationing >> >> Nancie, >> >> You wrote about the AMA position: >>> >>> here is their opinion and support stance: >>> http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml >>> <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml> >> >> Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion >> to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, >> support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of >> exactly those parts to which I objected. >> >> Chuck > -- Steve - dudescholar4@... <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net> <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net> " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 In my opinion the thing that is broken is Congress. It's a disgrace how they bargain for items in any bill healthcare or otherwise, I hate it. They have been elected to serve the people and they are serving no one with the way they haggle and deal. They should all be thrown out and a new crew brought in, one that dodn't know the ins and outs and just wants to do a good job, and will vote yes or no on a bill and its provisions on its own merit. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> >> I think the most important issue is that bigger government mean smaller the >> people. " We have govt run healthcare and its a HOT mess. Why would anyone >> want the govt making those systems bigger? The progressives (republicans >> and democrats) who want socialized anything need to read our constitution >> It does not guarantee the right to healthcare! >> CW >> >> -- Re: Re:Rationing >> >> Nancie, >> >> You wrote about the AMA position: >>> >>> here is their opinion and support stance: >>> http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml >>> <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml> >> >> Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion >> to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, >> support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of >> exactly those parts to which I objected. >> >> Chuck > -- Steve - dudescholar4@... <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net> <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net> " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Amen Roni...you are exactly right. From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ] On Behalf Of Roni Molin Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 3:05 PM hypothyroidism Subject: RE: Re:Rationing In my opinion the thing that is broken is Congress. It's a disgrace how they bargain for items in any bill healthcare or otherwise, I hate it. They have been elected to serve the people and they are serving no one with the way they haggle and deal. They should all be thrown out and a new crew brought in, one that dodn't know the ins and outs and just wants to do a good job, and will vote yes or no on a bill and its provisions on its own merit. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> >> I think the most important issue is that bigger government mean smaller the >> people. " We have govt run healthcare and its a HOT mess. Why would anyone >> want the govt making those systems bigger? The progressives (republicans >> and democrats) who want socialized anything need to read our constitution >> It does not guarantee the right to healthcare! >> CW >> >> -- Re: Re:Rationing >> >> Nancie, >> >> You wrote about the AMA position: >>> >>> here is their opinion and support stance: >>> http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml >>> <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml> >> >> Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion >> to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, >> support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of >> exactly those parts to which I objected. >> >> Chuck > -- Steve - dudescholar4@... <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net> <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net> <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net> " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Thanks, Beebe. We ought to start a group of people who are not necessarily conservative or liberal, but want to see the United States run for the best interests of it's citizens and the best use made of it's tax dollars. We don't need bridges to nowhere and we don't need parks right now when no one is building anything. We need the jobs that have been outsourced all over the world to be back insourced to this country and to rehire our people. China, India and a bunch of other places are making out like bandits on our money, instead of our government taking care of this country like it's supposed to do. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> >> I think the most important issue is that bigger government mean smaller the >> people. " We have govt run healthcare and its a HOT mess. Why would anyone >> want the govt making those systems bigger? The progressives (republicans >> and democrats) who want socialized anything need to read our constitution >> It does not guarantee the right to healthcare! >> CW >> >> -- Re: Re:Rationing >> >> Nancie, >> >> You wrote about the AMA position: >>> >>> here is their opinion and support stance: >>> http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml >>> <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml> >> >> Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion >> to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, >> support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of >> exactly those parts to which I objected. >> >> Chuck > -- Steve - dudescholar4@... <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net> <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net> <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net> " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Nancie, You wrote: > > > no you didn't give me anything, chuck. I don't know what your views are > prior to this email. This was posted to the list on the 8th: " The usual argument is over Sec. 1233, which requires end of life counseling, because that was under discussion when Palin used the phrase. My real problem is with Sec. 122, p. 29, which specifies rationing. Sec. 123, p. 30 describes a government-appointed committee to determine treatments and benefits. To the extent that such rationing and treatments selected for cost are not optimal, given the available technology, that is a panel empowered to make decisions that will shorten life for some people. To me, that meets the definition. " One of the key assumptions in the CBO estimates predicting cuts in Medicare is that end of life costs can be reduced by nothing more than " counseling. " Since about 27% of the Medicare budget is spent in the last year of life, it is a major target for cost cutters. I would certainly want clearer sounding restrictions on exactly how this reduction is to be achieved. ly, I don't see how they can do this without strongly persuading people to forgo care. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 the problem with our economy has Nothing to do with the healthcare reform bill that is still being finalized in the house. It Hasn't even been signed into law yet. ERGO, you can't blame the economy problems on health care reform. blame it on Bush's era since the economy tanked in 2007 , that is when unemployment started. That was on Bush's watch. From: bfsmo Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:42 PM hypothyroidism Subject: RE: Re:Rationing Instead of taxing everyone into oblivion with a health bill that is stuffed with pork, bribes and kickbacks there needs to be real reform. I don't think anyone believes that we don't need reform because we do. It is ridiculous how much things cost. The 2020 page bill they have now is lining the pockets of a lot of people and taking it from us. This plan is crippling small business and the unemployment rate is rising. There needs to be a patient centered system of consumer choice and free market competition. By the way, I am not gambling with anyone else's money. When I didn't have insurance I paid my bills. When we could afford insurance we purchased it. It is no one else's responsibility to take care of me. I am not entitled to anyone else's money. But yes the system is broken and needs reform. Beebe From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ] On Behalf Of Roni Molin Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:12 PM hypothyroidism Subject: RE: Re:Rationing Since that is the system we have now, it's the only way most people can afford to have healthcare. You stated that it took you quite some time to pay for a single operation. If the illness was ongoing and costs thousands and thousands of dollars for a long time, it's doubtful that you would be able to pay for the healthcare that would be needed. You and your family are gambling with everyone else's money. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> >> I think the most important issue is that bigger government mean smaller the >> people. " We have govt run healthcare and its a HOT mess. Why would anyone >> want the govt making those systems bigger? The progressives (republicans >> and democrats) who want socialized anything need to read our constitution >> It does not guarantee the right to healthcare! >> CW >> >> -- Re: Re:Rationing >> >> Nancie, >> >> You wrote about the AMA position: >>> >>> here is their opinion and support stance: >>> http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml >>> <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml> >> >> Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion >> to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, >> support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of >> exactly those parts to which I objected. >> >> Chuck > -- Steve - dudescholar4@... <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net> <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net> " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 tell me what homeless person has 200,000 in their fanny pack?? Lol I work with the homeless crystal on a medical level and I have NEVER met a homeless person who is carrying around 200,000.00 in a fanny pack and who doesn't want a roof over their heads and a safe secure place to live with food, shelter and clean clothes! where do you get this stuff? I can't wait to tell my colleagues who work with the homeless about this alleged person. From: Crystal Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 10:59 AM hypothyroidism Subject: Re: Re:Rationing It has something to do with healthcare because that homeless man with over 200,00 in his fanny pack can absolutely afford HC, but chooses to live on the tax payers monies. If you think beggin for money is a legit way to make money then you aren't realizing that they do not claim that money on their tax returns, therefore they are not paying into a system that supports them. This is un American and illeagal! If they are using this man as an example of a person without HC then how many thousands of people who can afford do not have it simply because they don't want to not because they can't afford? CW -- Re: Re:Rationing >> >> Nancie, >> >> You wrote about the AMA position: >>> >>> here is their opinion and support stance: >>> http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml >>> <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml> >> >> Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion >> to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, >> support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of >> exactly those parts to which I objected. >> >> Chuck > -- Steve - dudescholar4@... " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 no their not. You are LYING From: Crystal Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:30 PM hypothyroidism Subject: Re: Re:Rationing That is exactly what happens in the UK.. Their hospitals are overflowing! CW -- Re: Re:Rationing > > Nancie, > > You wrote about the AMA position: >> >> here is their opinion and support stance: >> http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 > shtml >> <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 > shtml> > > Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion > to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, > support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of > exactly those parts to which I objected. > > Chuck -- Steve - dudescholar4@... " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I agree with that. just remember that not to cut out Complex carbs out your diet. low {simple} carb, high complex carb diets are healthy From: Trish Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:23 AM hypothyroidism Subject: Re:Rationing >...our life expectancy is worse than South Korea... Hardly surprising given the very sad SAD with genetically modified organisms, high fructose corn syrup, aspartame etc., etc., ...seems more sensible to eat good quality and preferably organic produce, low carbs diets...think " PREVENTION " and take responsibility for yourself (wherever possible) to be well. Trish > > - > I deal with Medicare All the time and I never have any problems with Medicare vs. I have problems with PRIVATE insurx providing care for patients. talk about rationing- the privates ration all the time and you always feel like there is a " 3rd person " in the room with you. I never have to write a TAR aka treatment authorization request with my Medicare patients but I have to it constantly with every private insurx out there. > It guarantees the right to LIFE and today that means the right to have healthcare so that if you are sick you can get medical care and then you can have a LIFE. EVERY civilized nation on the planet provides universal coverage for it's citizens, except for the USA. It is no wonder that over 40,000 Americans DIE every year for lack of healthcare insurx and that our life expectancy is worse than South Korea and the total cost of medical care per person is the highest in the world, @ $7,290 yet life expectancy is shorter than in most other developed nations and many developing ones. Lack of health coverage is a major factor in life span and contributes to an estimated 45,000 deaths per year. These figures are for 2007 so just imagine what the cost is now in 2010. > Source: Gerard , professor at s Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public health who studies health insurance worldwide. > > so, you are saying that those 45,000+ Americans that die every year from lack to access to healthcare don't deserve to LIVE? Are you saying that those 46+ million people who don't and/or can't have/afford health insurx don't have a right to have the same options that you or I have just because we can afford to pay for health insurx?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Roni, You wrote: > > Chuck, I agree there are frivolous law suits, but from what I see they > come under the heading of female customer gets huge settlement for > spilling hot coffee on herself. > Not here. We have been facing serious doctor shortages, especially in OBGyn, and we actually have ceilings on damages. The real problem is with the punitive damages. I can understand a jury giving the lady with the hot coffee, the cost of care for a second degree burn or a new dress, but they awarded millions, simply because they knew Mc had deep pockets. If doctors pay more for liability insurance than they take home, guess who ends up paying for all these punitive damages? Now Obama has put Sec. of HHS Kathleen Sibelius in charge of the effort to restrain massive court awards sought by trial lawyers. Unfortunately, Sibelius used to be the director of the Kansas Association of Trial Lawyers before she was elected governor. When Joe Biden said there was no tort reform in the house bill, because they didn't want to confront the trial lawyers, he meant a majority of congress. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Roni, You wrote: > > According to you, they have no right to health care. No, they would have health care if California did not give a monopoly to a handful of insurance companies in exchange for favors. Power corrupts. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 I honestly do not care if you believe me or not. The officer in charge of our traffic division at the OKC police department was my professor and he told me the story of arresting the homeless man. I HIGHLY doubt he made this up. Some people want to live in poverty. Go to any downtown and see how many homeless people sleep on the street and refuse to go to a shelter even in the bitter cold. My mother and I both worked at the human services office and we saw the same people coming in getting their food stamps and social security hanging on the street corner begging for money. Those people do not want to work, they make a fine living working the streets. CW -- Re: Re:Rationing >> >> Nancie, >> >> You wrote about the AMA position: >>> >>> here is their opinion and support stance: >>> http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml >>> <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 >> shtml> >> >> Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion >> to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, >> support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of >> exactly those parts to which I objected. >> >> Chuck > -- Steve - dudescholar4@... " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Nancie I honestly think you are in denial. Stop calling me a liar please. You are out of line. CW -- Re: Re:Rationing > > Nancie, > > You wrote about the AMA position: >> >> here is their opinion and support stance: >> http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 > shtml >> <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 > shtml> > > Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion > to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, > support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of > exactly those parts to which I objected. > > Chuck -- Steve - dudescholar4@... " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 I agree that the woman, and others like her shouldn't have gotten huge punitive damages for something they caused themselves, but that's not what I'm worried about. I'm concerned that they will limit the results of damage to patients not causeed by themselves. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > Chuck, I agree there are frivolous law suits, but from what I see they > come under the heading of female customer gets huge settlement for > spilling hot coffee on herself. > Not here. We have been facing serious doctor shortages, especially in OBGyn, and we actually have ceilings on damages. The real problem is with the punitive damages. I can understand a jury giving the lady with the hot coffee, the cost of care for a second degree burn or a new dress, but they awarded millions, simply because they knew Mc had deep pockets. If doctors pay more for liability insurance than they take home, guess who ends up paying for all these punitive damages? Now Obama has put Sec. of HHS Kathleen Sibelius in charge of the effort to restrain massive court awards sought by trial lawyers. Unfortunately, Sibelius used to be the director of the Kansas Association of Trial Lawyers before she was elected governor. When Joe Biden said there was no tort reform in the house bill, because they didn't want to confront the trial lawyers, he meant a majority of congress. Chuck ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 That's the whole point of universal healthcare. The insurance companies would have to share the whole country, and would not be able to rip people off or deny them coverage for pre existing conditions as they do today. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > According to you, they have no right to health care. No, they would have health care if California did not give a monopoly to a handful of insurance companies in exchange for favors. Power corrupts. Chuck ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Nobody puts together big bucks panhandling. While your source may have found a homeless man with serious bucks in his backpack, the reason is most likely that the man is mentally ill. There are occasionally stories of homeless people with hoards of cash, but they are by far the extreme minority and are almost invariably mentally ill-- they may have worked jobs most of their lives, or inherited money, or sold their house, and are too mentally ill to deal with their money properly. To make these few examples a reason to think that homeless people are making a " fine living working the streets " is absurd. -- >I honestly do not care if you believe me or not. The officer in charge of >our traffic division at the OKC police department was my professor and he >told me the story of arresting the homeless man. I HIGHLY doubt he made >this up. Some people want to live in poverty. Go to any downtown and see >how many homeless people sleep on the street and refuse to go to a shelter >even in the bitter cold. My mother and I both worked at the human services >office and we saw the same people coming in getting their food stamps and >social security hanging on the street corner begging for money. Those >people do not want to work, they make a fine living working the streets. >CW > >-- Re: Re:Rationing > >> > >> Nancie, > >> > >> You wrote about the AMA position: > >>> > >>> here is their opinion and support stance: > >>> http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 > >> shtml > >>> <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 > >> shtml> > >> > >> Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion > >> to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, > >> support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of > >> exactly those parts to which I objected. > >> > >> Chuck > > > >-- > >Steve - dudescholar4@... > > " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you >run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher > > " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " > >Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at >http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html > >------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Luck my a$$. I worked my butt off to get my education and to advance in my first careers. I took calculated risks and LOST as often as it worked out. I got laid off more than most since I took risks with young companies with stock option potential and clawed my way back each time. Luck was not a component, it was old fashion work. A heart attack at 45 was not part of my planning. I took a calculated risk that I wouldn't have serious health problems and didn't buy health insurance. I LOST that calculated risk and it was not cheap. Some people whine about why all kinds of bad s**t always happen to them but that rich guy over there has all the luck. No luck and most likely not rich. Ever success requires one to overcome obstacles, some unforeseen. Every success was proceeded by many failures. If one looks at failure as learning opportunities of what not to do next time, then they can keep going until success is achieved. People with the right inner drive succeed, even if they are born a serious cripple, were in a bad accident with permanent disability, etc. It's a mindset, not luck, that makes the difference between failure and success. Life is not fair and never will be. Get over it. Steve On 1/12/2010 12:53 PM, Roni Molin wrote: > You were very lucky. Your life worked out. That doesn't mean that everyone is as lucky as you. I think you would have a very different story if you had come down with cancer or a spinal cord injury or any number of debilitating and costly illnesses. Your guns would not help you then, no matter where you're from, even Utah. > > Roni > <>Just because something > isn't seen doesn't mean it's > not there<> > > >>> >>> and whx portions do you object to? >> >> I already gave you the specific paragraphs. If those sections setting up >> a committee to ration care in the face of shortages are so benign, why >> did congress need to make expensive back room deals, the Cornhusker >> Kickback, the Louisiana Purchase, to get Democrats to vote for it? >> >> There are several causes for the current high costs of health insurance. >> One is covering the cost of frivolous law suits. Yet, there is no >> mention of tort reform in the bill. Nor did I see any provision for >> improving the competency of medical providers, which seems to be the >> most common complaint with the current system voiced on this list. >> >> Another major cost factor is that state governments have negotiated >> large price breaks for state employees in exchange for effective >> insurance monopolies. The result is that the favored few insurance >> companies in those states can raise rates with impunity to make everyone >> else subsidize the savings to the state. Some states are much worse than >> others, so the cost of care varies wildly from state to state. >> >> My son's family is one of the many who have been priced out of health >> insurance, because he lives in one state but is employed in California. >> My son and his company cannot afford the out of state rates, but they >> are not allowed to buy from a much more competitive company from my >> son's home state, at about half the price. We could cover a near >> majority of the estimated uninsured by simply prohibiting state >> governments from interfering with free trade and competition. >> >> Chuck > -- Steve - dudescholar4@... " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 My house burnt down but I now want some fire insurance. I didn't need it before but now I do. Will you sell me some so I can get my house rebuilt? I mean, sorry old me needs to live somewhere. DO you have a problem with a law that requires home owners insurance companies to sell me fire insurance AFTER that house has burned down? That's called a pre-existing condition. Steve On 1/12/2010 5:54 PM, Roni Molin wrote: > That's the whole point of universal healthcare. The insurance companies would have to share the whole country, and would not be able to rip people off or deny them coverage for pre existing conditions as they do today. > > > Roni > <>Just because something > isn't seen doesn't mean it's > not there<> > > >> >> According to you, they have no right to health care. > > No, they would have health care if California did not give a monopoly to > a handful of insurance companies in exchange for favors. Power corrupts. > > Chuck -- Steve - dudescholar4@... " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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