Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Except historically they don't. The bottom 50% of wage earners pay next to no income tax; that's not likely to change too much just because Obama decides to spend a few more trillion dollars on whatever. And the top 5% will keep on paying 50% of the tab; EXCEPT that Obama intends to stick it to the " rich " to help cover the deficit [which he claims will not be there but will be there] so I guess the top 5% will pay more than 50%. .. .. > > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20\ Re%3ARationing> > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:11 pm (PST) > > > > , that is pretty much what I was saying. Everybody pays. > > Roni > <>Just because something > isn't seen doesn't mean it's > not there<> > > > > From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> > Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 5:17 PM > > Roni, I'm sure that's your position but it's not the position of a vast > number of liberals and socialists. " Free " healthcare [or " free " > anything] is going to be paid for by someone, and it's almost always the > working stiff that gets it in the shorts for any other tax and spend > idiot proposal that someone can come up with. Often the rich have > enough power/influence to protect their interests. Just look at the > bone-headed boondoggle idea to tax yachts a few decades back. > > > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 O.K. so I'll ask you the same question. How do you know your numbers are correct fact, and not just someone's opinion? Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > From: Crystal <sweetnwright@... <mailto:sweetnwright%40cox.net>> > Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 4:38 PM > > Because nancie they include people who can afford HC insurance as those > without it. You are the one who needs to check your facts. They inflate > the number of people without for a reason. A lot of the people they > include > are illegals or non-citizens. So including these people doesn't give > us the > real story. They act like ALL the people without insurance are poverty > stricken. The point is there are way less! > CW > > -- Re: Fw: Re:Rationing > > > No you are incorrect. the numbers are 45 million people who have no health > insurance. Why don't YOU Google it. ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Oh, I'm sure she went to it; it says exactly what she says it does. But it's not the latest data, which I believe you quoted. Although less that 50% of Americans support the present bill there are a few percentage points more supporting it than opposing it IIRC in the latest info I've seen. Far too much of that support based on bogus crap like the 45,000,000 uninsured and similar BS. ... .. > > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20\ Re%3ARationing> > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:18 pm (PST) > > > > Yes that's what it did when I pasted it too. I don't think Crystal > went to the site herself, just put the link down from some right wing > site that said it was a real poll. > > Did you go to the site Crystal? What did you get. If you got something > different, post it here for us. > > Roni > <>Just because something > isn't seen doesn't mean it's > not there<> > > > > From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> > Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 5:37 PM > > The link Crystal posted was broken; if you paste it together here's what > you should get: > . > . > <http://www.gallup.com/poll/124715/Majority-Americans-Not-Backing-Healthcare-Bil\ l.aspx > <http://www.gallup.com/poll/124715/Majority-Americans-Not-Backing-Healthcare-Bil\ l.aspx>> > . > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Roni, I'm on the Gallop panel. All of the information is there for everyone to see; you just need to find it [search]. You don't have to have a link. .. .. > > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20\ Re%3ARationing> > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:45 pm (PST) > > > > From where did you obtain the link in the first place? > > Roni > <>Just because something > isn't seen doesn't mean it's > not there<> > > > > From: Crystal <sweetnwright@... <mailto:sweetnwright%40cox.net>> > Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 7:34 PM > > Yes, I tried the link too, but it didn't work, that is why I gave > instructions on exactly what to click on. > CW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 You know what it boils down to, Steve? In order to be totally free you have to have the right to be stupid. Literally. Otherwise some self-anointed [probably liberal {ggg}] " wise " person will decide something you're doing is " stupid " [in their value system] and you aren't free any more. .. .. > > Posted by: " Steve " dudescholar4@... > <mailto:dudescholar4@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%\ 5D%20Re%3ARationing> > dudescholar <dudescholar> > > > Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:20 pm (PST) > > > > And some books are more " unhealthy " than others so tax those a lot > extra. Who gets to make my decisions for me? What about non-organic, > that's less healthy so tax it extra! What about music devices that > allow one to turn it loud enough to cause hearing loss over time, tax > that extra. How about TV shows that come on late at night when you > OUGHT to be asleep, tax that. What about pools without fences, tax > that. What about windows that aren't triple paned for energy > efficiency, tax that. And what the heck, have you look at a one pound > package of salt! Dirt cheap. It should at least have a $10 tax per > pound to FORCE people to be healthier. > > Have I taken this to the logical end where government decides what is > and isn't good for you and makes your decisions for you? (And they are > not capable of determining what is and isn't good for you so they follow > the recommendations of the lobbyists and special interests which have > nothing to do with your interests.) > > No BS taxes! The only tax that makes any sense and would eliminate the > ability of special interests and corporate interests from creating 1000s > of pages of tax law is a flat tax either on income or purchases with tax > rebate for people in the bottom say 10%. Anything more is corrupt and > unfair at it core. > > On 1/12/2010 11:30 AM, Roni Molin wrote: > > I a bad economy, politicians come up with crazy schemes to get extra > tax money. Taxing those things that are unhealthy in the first place > is probably the least crazy. In my estimation they should tax tobbacco > (cigaretted, cigars) to 200% of the price. > > > > > > Roni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 On 1/12/2010 2:40 PM, Roni Molin wrote: > I don't think that is so for this reason. Countries with universal healthcare traditionally tax their people more than the U. S. does, but their people get the healthcare, education, pension, 4-8 weeks of vacation a year, dental care, child care and some other things we don't get . Why should you have a right to " get " anything you didn't pay for and have a right to force someone else to give you their earnings? -- Steve - dudescholar4@... " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 If only we could all be moral, upright, honest, altruistic, godlike, perfect, socialist democrats. " Making stuff up " is not moral. Steve On 1/12/2010 5:15 PM, nancie barnett wrote: > I am sorry but YOU are the one who is living in a republican twisted > world of LIES and misrepresentations of the truth. I have said REPEATEDLY > that I HAVE FAMILY LIVING ABROAD WHO LOVE THEIR HEALTHCARE AND WOULD NEVER > TRADE THEIR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM FOR THE BULL SHIT SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE HERE IN > THE USA. > I THINK YOU NEED TO GO LIVE THERE FOR A FEW YEARS AND ALSO LIVE IN > CONTINENTAL EUROPE AND SEE THE BLOODY TRUTH INSTEAD OF RELYING ON RIGHTWING > REPUBS WHO HAVE AN ADGENDA OF KEEPING THEMSELVES WEALTHY FROM TAKING MONEY > FORM HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES. > > NOT EVERYTHING ON GOOGLE IS THE REALITY OR FACTUAL. YOU HAVE TO WEED ITOUT, > JAMES. I KNOW YOU ARE SMARTER THAN THAT. YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER. > MY FAMILY AND I HAVE EXPERIENCED UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE ACROSS THE GLOBE AND > ALL OF IT WAS GOOD, EVEN CANADA AND MEXICO. > NO WAITING LINES; NO EXCESSIVE WAITING PERIODS THAT ARE LONGER THAN WHAT > OURS ARE ALREADY. WE NEVER GOT A BILL NOT ONCE EVEN THOUGH WE WERE NOT A > CITIZEN OF THEIR COUNTRY. THE MEDICINE WAS THE SAME AS WE WOULD GET HERE- > FROM THE SAME PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES. > > YOU AND I WILL NEVER AGREE ON THIS ISSUE- YOU ARE A CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN > [ HOPEFULLY NOT A RIGHT WINGER] AND I AM A LEFT WING LIBERAL DEMOCRAT. > I HAVE SEEN THE TRUTH ABOUT UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE ON A GLOBAL LEVEL AND > APPARENTLY YOU HAVEN'T. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: " " <res075oh@...> > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:24 AM > To:<hypothyroidism > > Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing > >> Nancie, you're truly living in a dream world. Try putting " problems with >> UK healthcare system " into Google and read just a few of the first hits. >> It puts the lie to everything you say about the healthcare system there. >> There are over 12 million hits. >> >> But I know you won't dare; you're not going to look at any evidence that >> contradicts your opinions. You're going to ignore the vast quantity of >> data that expresses a different viewpoint that contradicts yours. >> >> Here's just one of the 12 million hits: >> . >> . >>> >>> >>> *UK* Health Care *System* In Need of Repair >>> >>> by Carty, MD, MSPH >>> 01-26-2008 >>> >>> >>> Inadequate facilities, poor quality medical and nursing care in >>> several British hospitals cause deaths from intestinal infections. >>> >>> Imagine that you are seriously, even critically ill. You are in a >>> dirty, rundown, understaffed hospital. The nurses, doctors, and other >>> employees are rude, inattentive, and incompetent, and you can’t get >>> out. What could be more terrifying? >>> >>> Such, apparently, was the nightmarish predicament of a number of >>> patients with serious intestinal infections in a group of British >>> hospitals between 2004 and 2006. An October 2007 report by the >>> government’s Commission for *Healthcare* Audit and Inspection has >>> exposed a number of deficiencies in the UK’s rickety government-run >>> health care *system*, the National Health Service (NHS). The report >>> showed that outbreaks of Clostridium difficile (C. diff.) intestinal >>> infections in several NHS hospitals: Kent Hospital, Sussex Hospital, >>> and Maidstone Hospital, directly caused at least 90 deaths between >>> 2004 and 2006 and contributed to many more. C. diff. is a type of >>> bacterium which can cause serious intestinal infections, often after >>> the administration of antibiotics. >>> >>> The report documented poor quality medical and nursing care and >>> inadequate infection control measures. Doctors made mistakes in >>> antibiotic prescribing, fluid and nutrition management, and in many >>> other aspects of care. >>> >>> Nurses frequently did not wash their hands, wear gloves and gowns, >>> clean mattresses, empty and clean commodes, feed patients, or give >>> patients their medications. Patients who asked for help in going to >>> the toilet were often told to “go in the bed,” then left to lie in >>> their own urine and stool for long periods. Patients and family >>> members described the care as “despicable,” “sickening,” and “appalling,” >>> >>> Drity sink in clean utility room in UK hospital >>> >>> A sink in the " clean " utility room >>> >>> The NHS hospitals involved were old, dirty, and rundown. Although >>> patients with C. diff. infection should be put in single rooms to >>> prevent transmission of the infection to other patients, this was >>> usually impossible. Only 10% of the hospitals’ beds were in single >>> rooms. Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows >>> in large rooms. One hospital had only one sink for every 6 beds, and >>> the other two hospitals had one sink for every 12 beds. >>> >>> >>> Empty apologies, empty promises. >>> >>> The public release of the report was followed by the usual cynical >>> apologies and promises of reform and “zero tolerance.” In addition to >>> the C. diff. outbreaks at Kent, Sussex, and Maidstone hospitals, a >>> similar outbreak at another NHS hospital, Stoke Mandeville Hospital, >>> caused 33 deaths between 2003 and 2005. >>> >>> Beds jammed together in a UK hospital contributed to spread of infection >>> >>> Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows in >>> large rooms >>> >>> >>> *UK* health care *system* needs a makeover. >>> >>> How did the *UK* end up with such a dysfunctional health care >>> *system*? The English are prosperous, intelligent, even brilliant >>> people. One of my medical school professors, originally from the *UK*, >>> published the first account of a carotid endarterectomy, the operation >>> to clean out the arteries in the neck to prevent strokes. He was >>> famous as a surgeon, professor, and writer and operated on Winston >>> Churchill and the King of Kuwait. >>> >>> >>> Inadequate funding, poor management. >>> >>> Although government mismanagement is without question part of the >>> problem, the *UK* spends much less on health care than the US. Still, >>> the British government nationalized the health care *system* in 1948 >>> and has had over fifty years to work the kinks out of the *system*. >>> >>> The British people deserve better. >>> >> . >> . >> That's what you want for us??? >> >> >> >> . >> . >> >>> >>> Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspirit@... >>> >>> <mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%\ 3ARationing> >>> aspenfairy1<aspenfairy1> >>> >>> >>> Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:26 pm (PST) >>> >>> >>> >>> the numbers are from Think Tanks and from policy centers as in RAND; >>> UCLA Public Health and from Gerard from Hopkins >>> Bloomberg School of Public Health. So are you calling Prof. 's >>> research and data all a lie?? >>> The numbers are factual. They also only include US Citizens. >>> I bet if I asked all those AMERICANS that are not insured if they >>> wanted health insurance, they would scream YES! But, the fact is that >>> many of them can't get it because they either have a pre-existing >>> condition or they can't financially afford the premiums because either >>> they are unemployed; POOR; Underemployed; or their employer can't >>> afford the premiums or IF they are lucky enough to have medical insurx >>> in the first place- have huge premiums that keep going up. >>> Don't put YOUR words into my mouth. I never stated capitalism is wrong >>> and I agree that health insurance SHOULD be portable. I think if you >>> can get a better price on insurx in another state then you should be >>> able to buy it. BUT, the private insurance companies don't allow that. >>> that is part of the problem. That is what the health care reform would >>> fix. >>> >>> As far as universal healthcare in the UK, Europe, Australia and Canada >>> goes. You are Incorrect because I have family all over the globe and >>> they ALL love their universal healthcare! The US already has rationing >>> and waiting lists. You can NOT tell me that if you wanted to have an >>> elective surgery tomorrow or even this week that your insurance would >>> allow you. That only exists with those " Cadillac plans " . All other >>> medical insurx plans have pre-authorization processes that takes >>> weeks. I know because I deal with that ALL THE TIME. >>> My friend Malcolm is a surgeon and everyone of his patients' insurance >>> companies ALL have a Pre-authorization process that his office has to >>> work through and unless it is emergency surgery, he can not operate >>> right away. ERGO, there is a waiting period. >>> >>> I don't need to Google UK healthcare, because I know about it first >>> hand and It was Great! Never got a bill. And ZERO waiting! >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Who said the get something for nothing. They pay with taxes the same as everyone else. Your problem is that you don't understand the concept of " works and plays well with others. " Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > I don't think that is so for this reason. Countries with universal healthcare traditionally tax their people more than the U. S. does, but their people get the healthcare, education, pension, 4-8 weeks of vacation a year, dental care, child care and some other things we don't get . Why should you have a right to " get " anything you didn't pay for and have a right to force someone else to give you their earnings? -- Steve - dudescholar4@... " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 It was mentioned on CNN. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: Trish <fielddot@...> Subject: Fw: Re:Rationing hypothyroidism Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:40 AM Not for the first time Nancie, I'm struggling to understand the relevance of your reply ....where was the number of uninsured mentioned? Trish > > No you are incorrect. the numbers are 45 million people who have no health insurance. Why don't YOU Google it. > > > From: Crystal > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:19 AM > hypothyroidism > Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing > > > > Actually, more than half of the people without health insurance make 50,000 > or more a year. Again, private insurance needs help and reformation, but > allowing govt control is a big big mistake. If we can't learn from other > countries thenwe deserve what we get. There is a reason the majority of > Americans don't want Obama care to pass. A lot of law makers WILL lose > their seats if this thing passes. I suggest you quit watching msnbc to get > your news. > If you mean a breast augmentation for elective surgery, then no my insurance > will not pay it, but what insurance will? The majority of people in those > countries do not like their healthcare. I honestly do not believe you when > you tell me how wonderful it is because I know otherwise. More man run govt > is never good. I don't care who the president is. Teddy Roosevelt was one > of the worst presidents in history, yet he was Republican. He was a > progressive, just like Obama, Clinton and McCain are. At least now with our > current helathcare, they don't tell you what you can eat. I guarantee you > that if we have govt run HC, they will tell us to put our ice cream away! I > m not going to keep arguing with your views, it's a waste of time as I'm > sure you think the same. Only time will tell. I said the same thing about > Obama. I kinda hoped he would get voted in just so people could see hoe bad > things are going to get. I kinda feel like we are slipping into a > Orwell novel. Creepy! > CW ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 As I've already posted IIRC they are from the US census. .. .. > > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20\ Re%3ARationing> > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:26 pm (PST) > > > > O.K. so I'll ask you the same question. How do you know your numbers > are correct fact, and not just someone's opinion? > > Roni > <>Just because something > isn't seen doesn't mean it's > not there<> > > > > From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> > Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 10:11 PM > > Roni, I posted today [or late yesterday] a breakdown of some of those > include in the bogus 45,000,000 number of uninsured. As Nancie > suggested, I Googled it. Please either read my post and present any > questions or just Google it yourself. The actual number of those who > don't have insurance and can't afford it is probably quite a bit under > 20% of the claimed 45,000,000. It's the typical liberal lie, repeated > over and over and over until everyone [well, except those who bother to > check it out] believes it. > > > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 That census was done, I believe 10 years ago. The population has changed a great deal since then. The actual number of those who > don't have insurance and can't afford it is probably quite a bit under > 20% of the claimed 45,000,000. This little ditty is your own opinion. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> > Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 10:11 PM > > Roni, I posted today [or late yesterday] a breakdown of some of those > include in the bogus 45,000,000 number of uninsured. As Nancie > suggested, I Googled it. Please either read my post and present any > questions or just Google it yourself. The actual number of those who > don't have insurance and can't afford it is probably quite a bit under > 20% of the claimed 45,000,000. It's the typical liberal lie, repeated > over and over and over until everyone [well, except those who bother to > check it out] believes it. > > > . ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 I wish you folks would kindly trim your posts. from Illinois ________________________________ From: Crystal <sweetnwright@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Tue, January 12, 2010 3:52:35 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing You are missing the Point because that was not the way our country was intended to be run. The settlers came here to get away from big govt. So comparing the US to other big govt companies isn't fair. We are suppose to follow our constitution not the structure of other countries. CW -- Re: Fw: Re:Rationing hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 1:13 PM Given that I've never watched Fox news in my life why do you think I " adore " them??? I must admit that anything that gives the liberals so much heartburn has a certain appeal to me though. Anyway: I don't understand the logic of comparing the opinions of people as to the availability of affordable health care between a fee for service economy and one where it is " free " . It to me seems kind of like asking someone how please they are with the cost of apples when they are $1 each and asking the same question of those where they are " free " . People who do not know how much " free " really costs them or who are not among the group paying the cost are likely to prefer " free " apples or health care. .. .. > > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam > <mailto:matchermaam @ com?Subject= %20Re%3A% 20Fw%3A%20% 5Bhypothyroidism %5D%20Re% 3ARationing> > matchermaam <http://profiles. / matchermaam> > > > Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:39 am (PST) > > > > Here's some info if you put " satisfaction with healthare in UK " into > google. This includes info from your adored FOX NEWS and a GALLUP POLL. > > http://www.foxnews. com/story/ 0,2933,136990, 00.html > <http://www.foxnews. com/story/ 0,2933,136990, 00.html> > > http://www..gallup com/poll/8056/ healthcare- system-ratings- us-great- britain-canada. aspx > <http://www.gallup com/poll/8056/ healthcare- system-ratings- us-great- britain-canada. aspx> > > > > Roni ------------ --------- --------- ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 The theory of entitlements is that you have a right to get something for nothing. Taxes are legalized plunder from one group so that another group can " get " something for nothing. You have no right to get something for nothing and if you get more than you pay in taxes, you are benefiting from plunder and piracy. Anyone who gets less than they pay have been abused, defrauded, and enslaved. Anyone who doesn't get to spend each and every one of their dollars for their own benefit is being defrauded. If you are only getting back what you paid in taxes, you should never have had your money stolen in the first place and should have been able to invest all you money in the benefits you wished to have at any future point in time. Steve On 1/13/2010 8:44 AM, Roni Molin wrote: > Who said the get something for nothing. They pay with taxes the same as everyone else. > Your problem is that you don't understand the concept of " works and plays well with others. " > > > Roni > <>Just because something > isn't seen doesn't mean it's > not there<> > > >> I don't think that is so for this reason. Countries with universal healthcare traditionally tax their people more than the U. S. does, but their people get the healthcare, education, pension, 4-8 weeks of vacation a year, dental care, child care and some other things we don't get . > > Why should you have a right to " get " anything you didn't pay for and > have a right to force someone else to give you their earnings? > -- Steve - dudescholar4@... " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Is this better? Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: ND <blessedark2009@...> Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing hypothyroidism Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 10:41 AM I wish you folks would kindly trim your posts. from Illinois Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Steve seems to have some method. What I do if I don't want to follow a thread is flag all the messages with that subject and send them to delete. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075ohverizon (DOT) net> Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 11:24 AM Nancie, you're truly living in a dream world. Try putting " problems with UK healthcare system " into Google and read just a few of the first hits. It puts the lie to everything you say about the healthcare system there. There are over 12 million hits. But I know you won't dare; you're not going to look at any evidence that contradicts your opinions. You're going to ignore the vast quantity of data that expresses a different viewpoint that contradicts yours. Here's just one of the 12 million hits: .. .. > > > *UK* Health Care *System* In Need of Repair > > by Carty, MD, MSPH > 01-26-2008 > > > Inadequate facilities, poor quality medical and nursing care in > several British hospitals cause deaths from intestinal infections. > > Imagine that you are seriously, even critically ill. You are in a > dirty, rundown, understaffed hospital. The nurses, doctors, and other > employees are rude, inattentive, and incompetent, and you can’t get > out. What could be more terrifying? > > Such, apparently, was the nightmarish predicament of a number of > patients with serious intestinal infections in a group of British > hospitals between 2004 and 2006. An October 2007 report by the > government’s Commission for *Healthcare* Audit and Inspection has > exposed a number of deficiencies in the UK’s rickety government-run > health care *system*, the National Health Service (NHS). The report > showed that outbreaks of Clostridium difficile (C. diff.) intestinal > infections in several NHS hospitals: Kent Hospital, Sussex Hospital, > and Maidstone Hospital, directly caused at least 90 deaths between > 2004 and 2006 and contributed to many more. C. diff. is a type of > bacterium which can cause serious intestinal infections, often after > the administration of antibiotics. > > The report documented poor quality medical and nursing care and > inadequate infection control measures. Doctors made mistakes in > antibiotic prescribing, fluid and nutrition management, and in many > other aspects of care. > > Nurses frequently did not wash their hands, wear gloves and gowns, > clean mattresses, empty and clean commodes, feed patients, or give > patients their medications. Patients who asked for help in going to > the toilet were often told to “go in the bed,†then left to lie in > their own urine and stool for long periods. Patients and family > members described the care as “despicable,†“sickening,†and “appalling,†> > Drity sink in clean utility room in UK hospital > > A sink in the " clean " utility room > > The NHS hospitals involved were old, dirty, and rundown. Although > patients with C. diff. infection should be put in single rooms to > prevent transmission of the infection to other patients, this was > usually impossible. Only 10% of the hospitals’ beds were in single > rooms. Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows > in large rooms. One hospital had only one sink for every 6 beds, and > the other two hospitals had one sink for every 12 beds. > > > Empty apologies, empty promises. > > The public release of the report was followed by the usual cynical > apologies and promises of reform and “zero tolerance.†In addition to > the C. diff. outbreaks at Kent, Sussex, and Maidstone hospitals, a > similar outbreak at another NHS hospital, Stoke Mandeville Hospital, > caused 33 deaths between 2003 and 2005. > > Beds jammed together in a UK hospital contributed to spread of infection > > Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows in > large rooms > > > *UK* health care *system* needs a makeover. > > How did the *UK* end up with such a dysfunctional health care > *system*? The English are prosperous, intelligent, even brilliant > people. One of my medical school professors, originally from the *UK*, > published the first account of a carotid endarterectomy, the operation > to clean out the arteries in the neck to prevent strokes. He was > famous as a surgeon, professor, and writer and operated on Winston > Churchill and the King of Kuwait. > > > Inadequate funding, poor management. > > Although government mismanagement is without question part of the > problem, the *UK* spends much less on health care than the US. Still, > the British government nationalized the health care *system* in 1948 > and has had over fifty years to work the kinks out of the *system*. > > The British people deserve better. > .. .. That's what you want for us??? .. .. > > Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspiritmsn (DOT) com > <mailto:deifspirit@ msn com?Subject= %20Re%3A% 20Fw%3A%20% 5Bhypothyroidism %5D%20Re% 3ARationing> > aspenfairy1 <http://profiles. / aspenfairy1> > > > Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:26 pm (PST) > > > > the numbers are from Think Tanks and from policy centers as in RAND; > UCLA Public Health and from Gerard from Hopkins > Bloomberg School of Public Health. So are you calling Prof. 's > research and data all a lie?? > The numbers are factual. They also only include US Citizens. > I bet if I asked all those AMERICANS that are not insured if they > wanted health insurance, they would scream YES! But, the fact is that > many of them can't get it because they either have a pre-existing > condition or they can't financially afford the premiums because either > they are unemployed; POOR; Underemployed; or their employer can't > afford the premiums or IF they are lucky enough to have medical insurx > in the first place- have huge premiums that keep going up. > Don't put YOUR words into my mouth. I never stated capitalism is wrong > and I agree that health insurance SHOULD be portable. I think if you > can get a better price on insurx in another state then you should be > able to buy it. BUT, the private insurance companies don't allow that. > that is part of the problem. That is what the health care reform would > fix. > > As far as universal healthcare in the UK, Europe, Australia and Canada > goes. You are Incorrect because I have family all over the globe and > they ALL love their universal healthcare! The US already has rationing > and waiting lists. You can NOT tell me that if you wanted to have an > elective surgery tomorrow or even this week that your insurance would > allow you. That only exists with those " Cadillac plans " . All other > medical insurx plans have pre-authorization processes that takes > weeks. I know because I deal with that ALL THE TIME. > My friend Malcolm is a surgeon and everyone of his patients' insurance > companies ALL have a Pre-authorization process that his office has to > work through and unless it is emergency surgery, he can not operate > right away. ERGO, there is a waiting period. > > I don't need to Google UK healthcare, because I know about it first > hand and It was Great! Never got a bill. And ZERO waiting! ------------ --------- --------- ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 The reason for the slight increase of support since December is because people feel like since it is a new year it won't be pushed through too quickly. Hopefully people will see the closed door discussions that took place for 8 hours today and see that their elected officials are taking advantage of them. There will be a lot of senators who lose their jobs this year. Finally a change I can believe in! CW -- Re: Fw: Re:Rationing > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 5:37 PM > > The link Crystal posted was broken; if you paste it together here's what > you should get: > . > . > <http://www.gallup com/poll/124715/Majority-Americans-Not-Backing-Healthcare-Bill.aspx > <http://www.gallup com/poll/124715/Majority-Americans-Not-Backing-Healthcare-Bill.aspx>> > . > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 I'm pretty sure if you get on the Census Bureau's website you can find the info we have given you. CW -- Re: Fw: Re:Rationing > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 10:11 PM > > Roni, I posted today [or late yesterday] a breakdown of some of those > include in the bogus 45,000,000 number of uninsured. As Nancie > suggested, I Googled it. Please either read my post and present any > questions or just Google it yourself. The actual number of those who > don't have insurance and can't afford it is probably quite a bit under > 20% of the claimed 45,000,000. It's the typical liberal lie, repeated > over and over and over until everyone [well, except those who bother to > check it out] believes it. > > > . ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 Just put " 45,000,000 uninsured " into Google. I didn't follow up but it looks like the first half dozen or so hits are sites explaining how big a dish of crap the bogus number is. Not that the number is inaccurate; but rather the fact is that more than 80% of that 45,000,000 actually do have options; in some cases already paid for with tax dollars and they won't even bother to sign up. IIRC the info all comes from the US census; but the BS part is the implications of the liberals that there are 45,000,000 poor, sick people who can't get insurance is totally bogus. Many millions [between 10,000,000 and 20,000,000] live in households with annual income over $50,000 for example. A great number of millions live in households with annual income over $75,000. And numerous other groups, each totaling many, many millions. The spin is just the totally typical liberal BS. Take one teaspoon of facts and mix with a ton of $#!t and call it ice cream. .. .. > > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20\ Re%3ARationing> > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:56 am (PST) > > > > It was mentioned on CNN. > > Roni > <>Just because something > isn't seen doesn't mean it's > not there<> > > > > From: Trish <fielddot@... <mailto:fielddot%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Fw: Re:Rationing > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:40 AM > > Not for the first time Nancie, I'm struggling to understand the > relevance of your reply ....where was the number of uninsured mentioned? > > Trish > > > > > > No you are incorrect. the numbers are 45 million people who have no > health insurance. Why don't YOU Google it. > > > > > > From: Crystal > > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:19 AM > > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > > Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing > > > > > > > > Actually, more than half of the people without health insurance make > 50,000 > > or more a year. Again, private insurance needs help and reformation, but > > allowing govt control is a big big mistake. If we can't learn from other > > countries thenwe deserve what we get. There is a reason the majority of > > Americans don't want Obama care to pass. A lot of law makers WILL lose > > their seats if this thing passes. I suggest you quit watching msnbc > to get > > your news. > > If you mean a breast augmentation for elective surgery, then no my > insurance > > will not pay it, but what insurance will? The majority of people in > those > > countries do not like their healthcare. I honestly do not believe > you when > > you tell me how wonderful it is because I know otherwise. More man > run govt > > is never good. I don't care who the president is. Teddy Roosevelt > was one > > of the worst presidents in history, yet he was Republican. He was a > > progressive, just like Obama, Clinton and McCain are. At least now > with our > > current helathcare, they don't tell you what you can eat. I > guarantee you > > that if we have govt run HC, they will tell us to put our ice cream > away! I > > m not going to keep arguing with your views, it's a waste of time as I'm > > sure you think the same. Only time will tell. I said the same thing > about > > Obama. I kinda hoped he would get voted in just so people could see > hoe bad > > things are going to get. I kinda feel like we are slipping into a > > Orwell novel. Creepy! > > CW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 Yes; but you have to manage your email by properly setting up your browser. You can have email from any thread placed under that thread and just delete them all, or you can have them placed directly in trash. It varies from browser to browser and I've never bothered learning how to do it. I just page down or delete. In any event the moderator has requested that the thread be dropped. I didn't get that message for almost 24 hours and others may have gotten it that much later or possibly more, so such messages that entered the pipeline during those hours probably will continue to show up here for a day or three. .. .. > > Posted by: " Love " lilshell35@... > <mailto:lilshell35@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20R\ e%3ARationing> > lilshell35 <lilshell35> > > > Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:49 am (PST) > > > > Is there a way to unsubscribe to just this thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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