Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Nancie, the problem is that you cannot interpret the constitution to include healthcare. I'm pretty sure people died much earlier and faced many more killer diseases than we do today when the constitution was being constructed Therefore, if the writers intended for the govt to take care of people's health, they would have written that in. I wonder who comes up with the # of people who are uninsured? I bet there are way less. Also, how many of those are here illegally? Those people still wont be eligible for healthcare if they were citizens. Also, how many of the uninsured choose to be uninsured? A large majority of the uninsured can afford it if they wanted to. Having insurance has to be a priority for people (not a cell phone and cable and other forms of entertainment). I'm not saying the private insurance companied are perfect, they need work! Chuck is right about allowing people to buy across state lines. That would virtually wipe out the problems. Oh but capitalism is wrong, I forgot. Universal healthcare presents all kinds of waiting lists. That is why people who live in the UK and Canada come here. In my personal opinion what needs to be illegal is cigarettes. If the govt wants to get involved in the healthcare of people so bad, that's the first place they should start. Shut down the tobacco factories and a lot of people will have their lives saved. I bet they leave those people up and running though. However, they will tell you since you have a high BMI you will be penalized. Google UK healthcare and see what you get. My best friend has a daughter who had cancer when she was 5. She was on chemo for 2 and a half years. The bills stacked up and 5 years later they are still paying. Ask them if they think the govt should be in charge of their daughters healthcare and they say no!!!! Google Huffman who is a British politician and see what he said about their healthcare system. He was a supporter of Obama BTW. Govt healthcare is a mistake! -- Re: Re:Rationing Nancie, You wrote about the AMA position: > > here is their opinion and support stance: > http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 shtml > <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 shtml> Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of exactly those parts to which I objected. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 the numbers are from Think Tanks and from policy centers as in RAND; UCLA Public Health and from Gerard from Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. So are you calling Prof. 's research and data all a lie?? The numbers are factual. They also only include US Citizens. I bet if I asked all those AMERICANS that are not insured if they wanted health insurance, they would scream YES! But, the fact is that many of them can't get it because they either have a pre-existing condition or they can't financially afford the premiums because either they are unemployed; POOR; Underemployed; or their employer can't afford the premiums or IF they are lucky enough to have medical insurx in the first place- have huge premiums that keep going up. Don't put YOUR words into my mouth. I never stated capitalism is wrong and I agree that health insurance SHOULD be portable. I think if you can get a better price on insurx in another state then you should be able to buy it. BUT, the private insurance companies don't allow that. that is part of the problem. That is what the health care reform would fix. As far as universal healthcare in the UK, Europe, Australia and Canada goes. You are Incorrect because I have family all over the globe and they ALL love their universal healthcare! The US already has rationing and waiting lists. You can NOT tell me that if you wanted to have an elective surgery tomorrow or even this week that your insurance would allow you. That only exists with those " Cadillac plans " . All other medical insurx plans have pre-authorization processes that takes weeks. I know because I deal with that ALL THE TIME. My friend Malcolm is a surgeon and everyone of his patients' insurance companies ALL have a Pre-authorization process that his office has to work through and unless it is emergency surgery, he can not operate right away. ERGO, there is a waiting period. I don't need to Google UK healthcare, because I know about it first hand and It was Great! Never got a bill. And ZERO waiting! well , as far as your friend goes, her daughter is screwed in the present system, because when she grows up she won't be able to get health insurance because every private health insurx company will use her cancer diagnosis against her AS in Preexisting Condition; UNLESS we have successful healthcare reform that reins in the abuses by the insurance companies. From: Crystal Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:29 PM hypothyroidism Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing Nancie, the problem is that you cannot interpret the constitution to include healthcare. I'm pretty sure people died much earlier and faced many more killer diseases than we do today when the constitution was being constructed Therefore, if the writers intended for the govt to take care of people's health, they would have written that in. I wonder who comes up with the # of people who are uninsured? I bet there are way less. Also, how many of those are here illegally? Those people still wont be eligible for healthcare if they were citizens. Also, how many of the uninsured choose to be uninsured? A large majority of the uninsured can afford it if they wanted to. Having insurance has to be a priority for people (not a cell phone and cable and other forms of entertainment). I'm not saying the private insurance companied are perfect, they need work! Chuck is right about allowing people to buy across state lines. That would virtually wipe out the problems. Oh but capitalism is wrong, I forgot. Universal healthcare presents all kinds of waiting lists. That is why people who live in the UK and Canada come here. In my personal opinion what needs to be illegal is cigarettes. If the govt wants to get involved in the healthcare of people so bad, that's the first place they should start. Shut down the tobacco factories and a lot of people will have their lives saved. I bet they leave those people up and running though. However, they will tell you since you have a high BMI you will be penalized. Google UK healthcare and see what you get. My best friend has a daughter who had cancer when she was 5. She was on chemo for 2 and a half years. The bills stacked up and 5 years later they are still paying. Ask them if they think the govt should be in charge of their daughters healthcare and they say no!!!! Google Huffman who is a British politician and see what he said about their healthcare system. He was a supporter of Obama BTW. Govt healthcare is a mistake! -- Re: Re:Rationing Nancie, You wrote about the AMA position: > > here is their opinion and support stance: > http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 shtml > <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 shtml> Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of exactly those parts to which I objected. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 With the exclusion of illegals, most Americans who don't not have health care don't have it because they choose to spend their money on something else. When I was very newly married, we had apartment insurance (renter's insurance) to cover unforeseen losses. Not a single person we know was willing to spend money on this kind of insurance but they went out to eat much more often than we did since we managed our money differently. For 3 years, I didn't have insurance but lived in a 6100 sq/ft house which was fully paid for. Perhaps, Nancie should have helped pay for my insurance costs! My financial calculation is that I could pay for one significant surgery each year including all the monthly medications and doctor visits the family needed and still have lower medical costs than buying health insurance. And, I cut the medication costs by buying on the international market, a savings of will over $500/month. Nancie seems to think that people who don't have insurance are entitled to a free ride using her paycheck. Ok, well not HER paycheck, but all the money she can steal from someone else's paycheck. Steve On 1/11/2010 10:29 PM, Crystal wrote: > Nancie, the problem is that you cannot interpret the constitution to include > healthcare. I'm pretty sure people died much earlier and faced many more > killer diseases than we do today when the constitution was being constructed > Therefore, if the writers intended for the govt to take care of people's > health, they would have written that in. I wonder who comes up with the # > of people who are uninsured? I bet there are way less. Also, how many of > those are here illegally? Those people still wont be eligible for > healthcare if they were citizens. Also, how many of the uninsured choose to > be uninsured? A large majority of the uninsured can afford it if they > wanted to. Having insurance has to be a priority for people (not a cell > phone and cable and other forms of entertainment). I'm not saying the > private insurance companied are perfect, they need work! Chuck is right > about allowing people to buy across state lines. That would virtually wipe > out the problems. Oh but capitalism is wrong, I forgot. > > Universal healthcare presents all kinds of waiting lists. That is why > people who live in the UK and Canada come here. In my personal opinion what > needs to be illegal is cigarettes. If the govt wants to get involved in the > healthcare of people so bad, that's the first place they should start. Shut > down the tobacco factories and a lot of people will have their lives saved. > I bet they leave those people up and running though. However, they will > tell you since you have a high BMI you will be penalized. Google UK > healthcare and see what you get. > > My best friend has a daughter who had cancer when she was 5. She was on > chemo for 2 and a half years. The bills stacked up and 5 years later they > are still paying. Ask them if they think the govt should be in charge of > their daughters healthcare and they say no!!!! > > Google Huffman who is a British politician and see what he said about > their healthcare system. He was a supporter of Obama BTW. Govt healthcare > is a mistake! > -- Re: Re:Rationing > > Nancie, > > You wrote about the AMA position: >> >> here is their opinion and support stance: >> http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 > shtml >> <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 > shtml> > > Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion > to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, > support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of > exactly those parts to which I objected. > > Chuck -- Steve - dudescholar4@... " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 On 1/12/2010 12:26 AM, nancie barnett wrote: > the numbers are from Think Tanks and from policy centers as in RAND; UCLA Public Health and from Gerard from Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. So are you calling Prof. 's research and data all a lie?? YES, a big lie. > The numbers are factual. They also only include US Citizens. No they don't as you well know. -- Steve - dudescholar4@... " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I agree Steve. When we were young we made a choice to not have insurance because we had four children and needed groceries. That was our choice. When my husband had a major illness that required a long hospital stay we were given medical care even though we didn't have insurance. We received care and his life was saved. We paid off our hospital bill on a payment plan of many years but we paid it off. There are a LOT of reforms to be made that will make health care better for everyone but the health insurance bill they are proposing is not going to help anyone. All these people who don't have insurance and don't really want it are going to pay a big penalty for not having it and the IRS is going to be the one who collects that information. Our rights as citizens are being taken away. beebe From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ] On Behalf Of Steve Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:11 AM hypothyroidism Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing With the exclusion of illegals, most Americans who don't not have health care don't have it because they choose to spend their money on something else. When I was very newly married, we had apartment insurance (renter's insurance) to cover unforeseen losses. Not a single person we know was willing to spend money on this kind of insurance but they went out to eat much more often than we did since we managed our money differently. For 3 years, I didn't have insurance but lived in a 6100 sq/ft house which was fully paid for. Perhaps, Nancie should have helped pay for my insurance costs! My financial calculation is that I could pay for one significant surgery each year including all the monthly medications and doctor visits the family needed and still have lower medical costs than buying health insurance. And, I cut the medication costs by buying on the international market, a savings of will over $500/month. Nancie seems to think that people who don't have insurance are entitled to a free ride using her paycheck. Ok, well not HER paycheck, but all the money she can steal from someone else's paycheck. Steve On 1/11/2010 10:29 PM, Crystal wrote: > Nancie, the problem is that you cannot interpret the constitution to include > healthcare. I'm pretty sure people died much earlier and faced many more > killer diseases than we do today when the constitution was being constructed > Therefore, if the writers intended for the govt to take care of people's > health, they would have written that in. I wonder who comes up with the # > of people who are uninsured? I bet there are way less. Also, how many of > those are here illegally? Those people still wont be eligible for > healthcare if they were citizens. Also, how many of the uninsured choose to > be uninsured? A large majority of the uninsured can afford it if they > wanted to. Having insurance has to be a priority for people (not a cell > phone and cable and other forms of entertainment). I'm not saying the > private insurance companied are perfect, they need work! Chuck is right > about allowing people to buy across state lines. That would virtually wipe > out the problems. Oh but capitalism is wrong, I forgot. > > Universal healthcare presents all kinds of waiting lists. That is why > people who live in the UK and Canada come here. In my personal opinion what > needs to be illegal is cigarettes. If the govt wants to get involved in the > healthcare of people so bad, that's the first place they should start. Shut > down the tobacco factories and a lot of people will have their lives saved. > I bet they leave those people up and running though. However, they will > tell you since you have a high BMI you will be penalized. Google UK > healthcare and see what you get. > > My best friend has a daughter who had cancer when she was 5. She was on > chemo for 2 and a half years. The bills stacked up and 5 years later they > are still paying. Ask them if they think the govt should be in charge of > their daughters healthcare and they say no!!!! > > Google Huffman who is a British politician and see what he said about > their healthcare system. He was a supporter of Obama BTW. Govt healthcare > is a mistake! > -- Re: Re:Rationing > > Nancie, > > You wrote about the AMA position: >> >> here is their opinion and support stance: >> http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 > shtml >> <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 > shtml> > > Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion > to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, > support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of > exactly those parts to which I objected. > > Chuck -- Steve - dudescholar4@... <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net> " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Actually, more than half of the people without health insurance make 50,000 or more a year. Again, private insurance needs help and reformation, but allowing govt control is a big big mistake. If we can't learn from other countries thenwe deserve what we get. There is a reason the majority of Americans don't want Obama care to pass. A lot of law makers WILL lose their seats if this thing passes. I suggest you quit watching msnbc to get your news. If you mean a breast augmentation for elective surgery, then no my insurance will not pay it, but what insurance will? The majority of people in those countries do not like their healthcare. I honestly do not believe you when you tell me how wonderful it is because I know otherwise. More man run govt is never good. I don't care who the president is. Teddy Roosevelt was one of the worst presidents in history, yet he was Republican. He was a progressive, just like Obama, Clinton and McCain are. At least now with our current helathcare, they don't tell you what you can eat. I guarantee you that if we have govt run HC, they will tell us to put our ice cream away! I m not going to keep arguing with your views, it's a waste of time as I'm sure you think the same. Only time will tell. I said the same thing about Obama. I kinda hoped he would get voted in just so people could see hoe bad things are going to get. I kinda feel like we are slipping into a Orwell novel. Creepy! CW -- Re: Re:Rationing Nancie, You wrote about the AMA position: > > here is their opinion and support stance: > http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 shtml > <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 shtml> Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of exactly those parts to which I objected. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I heard this morning the are going to start restricting the use of salt!! That might be in New York, not sure of the detail. New York was also going to tax sweet beverages like soda, fruit juice. From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ] On Behalf Of Crystal Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 10:19 AM hypothyroidism Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing Actually, more than half of the people without health insurance make 50,000 or more a year. Again, private insurance needs help and reformation, but allowing govt control is a big big mistake. If we can't learn from other countries thenwe deserve what we get. There is a reason the majority of Americans don't want Obama care to pass. A lot of law makers WILL lose their seats if this thing passes. I suggest you quit watching msnbc to get your news. If you mean a breast augmentation for elective surgery, then no my insurance will not pay it, but what insurance will? The majority of people in those countries do not like their healthcare. I honestly do not believe you when you tell me how wonderful it is because I know otherwise. More man run govt is never good. I don't care who the president is. Teddy Roosevelt was one of the worst presidents in history, yet he was Republican. He was a progressive, just like Obama, Clinton and McCain are. At least now with our current helathcare, they don't tell you what you can eat. I guarantee you that if we have govt run HC, they will tell us to put our ice cream away! I m not going to keep arguing with your views, it's a waste of time as I'm sure you think the same. Only time will tell. I said the same thing about Obama. I kinda hoped he would get voted in just so people could see hoe bad things are going to get. I kinda feel like we are slipping into a Orwell novel. Creepy! CW -- Re: Re:Rationing Nancie, You wrote about the AMA position: > > here is their opinion and support stance: > http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 shtml > <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 shtml> Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of exactly those parts to which I objected. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I a bad economy, politicians come up with crazy schemes to get extra tax money. Taxing those things that are unhealthy in the first place is probably the least crazy. In my estimation they should tax tobbacco (cigaretted, cigars) to 200% of the price. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: bfsmo <bfsmo@...> Subject: RE: Fw: Re:Rationing hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 8:33 AM I heard this morning the are going to start restricting the use of salt!! That might be in New York, not sure of the detail. New York was also going to tax sweet beverages like soda, fruit juice. From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ] On Behalf Of Crystal Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 10:19 AM hypothyroidism Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing Actually, more than half of the people without health insurance make 50,000 or more a year. Again, private insurance needs help and reformation, but allowing govt control is a big big mistake. If we can't learn from other countries thenwe deserve what we get. There is a reason the majority of Americans don't want Obama care to pass. A lot of law makers WILL lose their seats if this thing passes. I suggest you quit watching msnbc to get your news. If you mean a breast augmentation for elective surgery, then no my insurance will not pay it, but what insurance will? The majority of people in those countries do not like their healthcare. I honestly do not believe you when you tell me how wonderful it is because I know otherwise. More man run govt is never good. I don't care who the president is. Teddy Roosevelt was one of the worst presidents in history, yet he was Republican. He was a progressive, just like Obama, Clinton and McCain are. At least now with our current helathcare, they don't tell you what you can eat. I guarantee you that if we have govt run HC, they will tell us to put our ice cream away! I m not going to keep arguing with your views, it's a waste of time as I'm sure you think the same. Only time will tell. I said the same thing about Obama. I kinda hoped he would get voted in just so people could see hoe bad things are going to get. I kinda feel like we are slipping into a Orwell novel. Creepy! CW -- Re: Re:Rationing Nancie, You wrote about the AMA position: > > here is their opinion and support stance: > http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 shtml > <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 shtml> Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of exactly those parts to which I objected. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Nancie, you're truly living in a dream world. Try putting " problems with UK healthcare system " into Google and read just a few of the first hits. It puts the lie to everything you say about the healthcare system there. There are over 12 million hits. But I know you won't dare; you're not going to look at any evidence that contradicts your opinions. You're going to ignore the vast quantity of data that expresses a different viewpoint that contradicts yours. Here's just one of the 12 million hits: .. .. > > > *UK* Health Care *System* In Need of Repair > > by Carty, MD, MSPH > 01-26-2008 > > > Inadequate facilities, poor quality medical and nursing care in > several British hospitals cause deaths from intestinal infections. > > Imagine that you are seriously, even critically ill. You are in a > dirty, rundown, understaffed hospital. The nurses, doctors, and other > employees are rude, inattentive, and incompetent, and you can’t get > out. What could be more terrifying? > > Such, apparently, was the nightmarish predicament of a number of > patients with serious intestinal infections in a group of British > hospitals between 2004 and 2006. An October 2007 report by the > government’s Commission for *Healthcare* Audit and Inspection has > exposed a number of deficiencies in the UK’s rickety government-run > health care *system*, the National Health Service (NHS). The report > showed that outbreaks of Clostridium difficile (C. diff.) intestinal > infections in several NHS hospitals: Kent Hospital, Sussex Hospital, > and Maidstone Hospital, directly caused at least 90 deaths between > 2004 and 2006 and contributed to many more. C. diff. is a type of > bacterium which can cause serious intestinal infections, often after > the administration of antibiotics. > > The report documented poor quality medical and nursing care and > inadequate infection control measures. Doctors made mistakes in > antibiotic prescribing, fluid and nutrition management, and in many > other aspects of care. > > Nurses frequently did not wash their hands, wear gloves and gowns, > clean mattresses, empty and clean commodes, feed patients, or give > patients their medications. Patients who asked for help in going to > the toilet were often told to “go in the bed,” then left to lie in > their own urine and stool for long periods. Patients and family > members described the care as “despicable,” “sickening,” and “appalling,” > > Drity sink in clean utility room in UK hospital > > A sink in the " clean " utility room > > The NHS hospitals involved were old, dirty, and rundown. Although > patients with C. diff. infection should be put in single rooms to > prevent transmission of the infection to other patients, this was > usually impossible. Only 10% of the hospitals’ beds were in single > rooms. Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows > in large rooms. One hospital had only one sink for every 6 beds, and > the other two hospitals had one sink for every 12 beds. > > > Empty apologies, empty promises. > > The public release of the report was followed by the usual cynical > apologies and promises of reform and “zero tolerance.” In addition to > the C. diff. outbreaks at Kent, Sussex, and Maidstone hospitals, a > similar outbreak at another NHS hospital, Stoke Mandeville Hospital, > caused 33 deaths between 2003 and 2005. > > Beds jammed together in a UK hospital contributed to spread of infection > > Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows in > large rooms > > > *UK* health care *system* needs a makeover. > > How did the *UK* end up with such a dysfunctional health care > *system*? The English are prosperous, intelligent, even brilliant > people. One of my medical school professors, originally from the *UK*, > published the first account of a carotid endarterectomy, the operation > to clean out the arteries in the neck to prevent strokes. He was > famous as a surgeon, professor, and writer and operated on Winston > Churchill and the King of Kuwait. > > > Inadequate funding, poor management. > > Although government mismanagement is without question part of the > problem, the *UK* spends much less on health care than the US. Still, > the British government nationalized the health care *system* in 1948 > and has had over fifty years to work the kinks out of the *system*. > > The British people deserve better. > .. .. That's what you want for us??? .. .. > > Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspirit@... > <mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%\ 3ARationing> > aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > > Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:26 pm (PST) > > > > the numbers are from Think Tanks and from policy centers as in RAND; > UCLA Public Health and from Gerard from Hopkins > Bloomberg School of Public Health. So are you calling Prof. 's > research and data all a lie?? > The numbers are factual. They also only include US Citizens. > I bet if I asked all those AMERICANS that are not insured if they > wanted health insurance, they would scream YES! But, the fact is that > many of them can't get it because they either have a pre-existing > condition or they can't financially afford the premiums because either > they are unemployed; POOR; Underemployed; or their employer can't > afford the premiums or IF they are lucky enough to have medical insurx > in the first place- have huge premiums that keep going up. > Don't put YOUR words into my mouth. I never stated capitalism is wrong > and I agree that health insurance SHOULD be portable. I think if you > can get a better price on insurx in another state then you should be > able to buy it. BUT, the private insurance companies don't allow that. > that is part of the problem. That is what the health care reform would > fix. > > As far as universal healthcare in the UK, Europe, Australia and Canada > goes. You are Incorrect because I have family all over the globe and > they ALL love their universal healthcare! The US already has rationing > and waiting lists. You can NOT tell me that if you wanted to have an > elective surgery tomorrow or even this week that your insurance would > allow you. That only exists with those " Cadillac plans " . All other > medical insurx plans have pre-authorization processes that takes > weeks. I know because I deal with that ALL THE TIME. > My friend Malcolm is a surgeon and everyone of his patients' insurance > companies ALL have a Pre-authorization process that his office has to > work through and unless it is emergency surgery, he can not operate > right away. ERGO, there is a waiting period. > > I don't need to Google UK healthcare, because I know about it first > hand and It was Great! Never got a bill. And ZERO waiting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Here's some info if you put " satisfaction with healthare in UK " into google. This includes info from your adored FOX NEWS and a GALLUP POLL.  http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136990,00.html  http://www.gallup.com/poll/8056/healthcare-system-ratings-us-great-britain-canad\ a.aspx   Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075oh@...> Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 11:24 AM Nancie, you're truly living in a dream world. Try putting " problems with UK healthcare system " into Google and read just a few of the first hits. It puts the lie to everything you say about the healthcare system there. There are over 12 million hits. But I know you won't dare; you're not going to look at any evidence that contradicts your opinions. You're going to ignore the vast quantity of data that expresses a different viewpoint that contradicts yours. Here's just one of the 12 million hits: .. .. > > >   *UK* Health Care *System* In Need of Repair > > by Carty, MD, MSPH > 01-26-2008 > > >     Inadequate facilities, poor quality medical and nursing care in >     several British hospitals cause deaths from intestinal infections. > > Imagine that you are seriously, even critically ill. You are in a > dirty, rundown, understaffed hospital. The nurses, doctors, and other > employees are rude, inattentive, and incompetent, and you can’t get > out. What could be more terrifying? > > Such, apparently, was the nightmarish predicament of a number of > patients with serious intestinal infections in a group of British > hospitals between 2004 and 2006. An October 2007 report by the > government’s Commission for *Healthcare* Audit and Inspection has > exposed a number of deficiencies in the UK’s rickety government-run > health care *system*, the National Health Service (NHS). The report > showed that outbreaks of Clostridium difficile (C. diff.) intestinal > infections in several NHS hospitals: Kent Hospital, Sussex Hospital, > and Maidstone Hospital, directly caused at least 90 deaths between > 2004 and 2006 and contributed to many more. C. diff. is a type of > bacterium which can cause serious intestinal infections, often after > the administration of antibiotics. > > The report documented poor quality medical and nursing care and > inadequate infection control measures. Doctors made mistakes in > antibiotic prescribing, fluid and nutrition management, and in many > other aspects of care. > > Nurses frequently did not wash their hands, wear gloves and gowns, > clean mattresses, empty and clean commodes, feed patients, or give > patients their medications. Patients who asked for help in going to > the toilet were often told to “go in the bed,†then left to lie in > their own urine and stool for long periods. Patients and family > members described the care as “despicable,†“sickening,†and “appalling,†> > Drity sink in clean utility room in UK hospital > > A sink in the " clean " utility room > > The NHS hospitals involved were old, dirty, and rundown. Although > patients with C. diff. infection should be put in single rooms to > prevent transmission of the infection to other patients, this was > usually impossible. Only 10% of the hospitals’ beds were in single > rooms. Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows > in large rooms. One hospital had only one sink for every 6 beds, and > the other two hospitals had one sink for every 12 beds. > > >     Empty apologies, empty promises. > > The public release of the report was followed by the usual cynical > apologies and promises of reform and “zero tolerance.†In addition to > the C. diff. outbreaks at Kent, Sussex, and Maidstone hospitals, a > similar outbreak at another NHS hospital, Stoke Mandeville Hospital, > caused 33 deaths between 2003 and 2005. > > Beds jammed together in a UK hospital contributed to spread of infection > > Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows in > large rooms > > >     *UK* health care *system* needs a makeover. > > How did the *UK* end up with such a dysfunctional health care > *system*? The English are prosperous, intelligent, even brilliant > people. One of my medical school professors, originally from the *UK*, > published the first account of a carotid endarterectomy, the operation > to clean out the arteries in the neck to prevent strokes. He was > famous as a surgeon, professor, and writer and operated on Winston > Churchill and the King of Kuwait. > > >     Inadequate funding, poor management. > > Although government mismanagement is without question part of the > problem, the *UK* spends much less on health care than the US. Still, > the British government nationalized the health care *system* in 1948 > and has had over fifty years to work the kinks out of the *system*. > > The British people deserve better. > .. .. That's what you want for us??? .. .. > >     Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspirit@... >     <mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D\ %20Re%3ARationing> >     aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > >      Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:26 pm (PST) > > > > the numbers are from Think Tanks and from policy centers as in RAND; > UCLA Public Health and from Gerard from Hopkins > Bloomberg School of Public Health. So are you calling Prof. 's > research and data all a lie?? > The numbers are factual. They also only include US Citizens. > I bet if I asked all those AMERICANS that are not insured if they > wanted health insurance, they would scream YES! But, the fact is that > many of them can't get it because they either have a pre-existing > condition or they can't financially afford the premiums because either > they are unemployed; POOR; Underemployed; or their employer can't > afford the premiums or IF they are lucky enough to have medical insurx > in the first place- have huge premiums that keep going up. > Don't put YOUR words into my mouth. I never stated capitalism is wrong > and I agree that health insurance SHOULD be portable. I think if you > can get a better price on insurx in another state then you should be > able to buy it. BUT, the private insurance companies don't allow that. > that is part of the problem. That is what the health care reform would > fix. > > As far as universal healthcare in the UK, Europe, Australia and Canada > goes. You are Incorrect because I have family all over the globe and > they ALL love their universal healthcare! The US already has rationing > and waiting lists. You can NOT tell me that if you wanted to have an > elective surgery tomorrow or even this week that your insurance would > allow you. That only exists with those " Cadillac plans " . All other > medical insurx plans have pre-authorization processes that takes > weeks. I know because I deal with that ALL THE TIME. > My friend Malcolm is a surgeon and everyone of his patients' insurance > companies ALL have a Pre-authorization process that his office has to > work through and unless it is emergency surgery, he can not operate > right away. ERGO, there is a waiting period. > > I don't need to Google UK healthcare, because I know about it first > hand and It was Great! Never got a bill. And ZERO waiting! ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Roni both of these articles are outdated. One is from 2004 and the other is from 2003. CW -- Re: Fw: Re:Rationing hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 11:24 AM Nancie, you're truly living in a dream world. Try putting " problems with UK healthcare system " into Google and read just a few of the first hits. It puts the lie to everything you say about the healthcare system there. There are over 12 million hits. But I know you won't dare; you're not going to look at any evidence that contradicts your opinions. You're going to ignore the vast quantity of data that expresses a different viewpoint that contradicts yours. Here's just one of the 12 million hits: .. .. > > > *UK* Health Care *System* In Need of Repair > > by Carty, MD, MSPH > 01-26-2008 > > > Inadequate facilities, poor quality medical and nursing care in > several British hospitals cause deaths from intestinal infections. > > Imagine that you are seriously, even critically ill. You are in a > dirty, rundown, understaffed hospital. The nurses, doctors, and other > employees are rude, inattentive, and incompetent, and you can’t get > out. What could be more terrifying? > > Such, apparently, was the nightmarish predicament of a number of > patients with serious intestinal infections in a group of British > hospitals between 2004 and 2006. An October 2007 report by the > government’s Commission for *Healthcare* Audit and Inspection has > exposed a number of deficiencies in the UK’s rickety government-run > health care *system*, the National Health Service (NHS). The report > showed that outbreaks of Clostridium difficile (C. diff.) intestinal > infections in several NHS hospitals: Kent Hospital, Sussex Hospital, > and Maidstone Hospital, directly caused at least 90 deaths between > 2004 and 2006 and contributed to many more. C. diff. is a type of > bacterium which can cause serious intestinal infections, often after > the administration of antibiotics. > > The report documented poor quality medical and nursing care and > inadequate infection control measures. Doctors made mistakes in > antibiotic prescribing, fluid and nutrition management, and in many > other aspects of care. > > Nurses frequently did not wash their hands, wear gloves and gowns, > clean mattresses, empty and clean commodes, feed patients, or give > patients their medications. Patients who asked for help in going to > the toilet were often told to “go in the bed,†then left to lie in > their own urine and stool for long periods. Patients and family > members described the care as “despicable,†“sickening,†and “appalling,†> > Drity sink in clean utility room in UK hospital > > A sink in the " clean " utility room > > The NHS hospitals involved were old, dirty, and rundown. Although > patients with C. diff. infection should be put in single rooms to > prevent transmission of the infection to other patients, this was > usually impossible. Only 10% of the hospitals’ beds were in single > rooms. Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows > in large rooms. One hospital had only one sink for every 6 beds, and > the other two hospitals had one sink for every 12 beds. > > > Empty apologies, empty promises. > > The public release of the report was followed by the usual cynical > apologies and promises of reform and “zero tolerance.†In addition to > the C. diff. outbreaks at Kent, Sussex, and Maidstone hospitals, a > similar outbreak at another NHS hospital, Stoke Mandeville Hospital, > caused 33 deaths between 2003 and 2005. > > Beds jammed together in a UK hospital contributed to spread of infection > > Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows in > large rooms > > > *UK* health care *system* needs a makeover. > > How did the *UK* end up with such a dysfunctional health care > *system*? The English are prosperous, intelligent, even brilliant > people. One of my medical school professors, originally from the *UK*, > published the first account of a carotid endarterectomy, the operation > to clean out the arteries in the neck to prevent strokes. He was > famous as a surgeon, professor, and writer and operated on Winston > Churchill and the King of Kuwait. > > > Inadequate funding, poor management. > > Although government mismanagement is without question part of the > problem, the *UK* spends much less on health care than the US. Still, > the British government nationalized the health care *system* in 1948 > and has had over fifty years to work the kinks out of the *system*. > > The British people deserve better. > .. .. That's what you want for us??? .. .. > > Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspirit@... > <mailto:deifspirit@msn com?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3ARationing> > aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > > Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:26 pm (PST) > > > > the numbers are from Think Tanks and from policy centers as in RAND; > UCLA Public Health and from Gerard from Hopkins > Bloomberg School of Public Health. So are you calling Prof. 's > research and data all a lie?? > The numbers are factual. They also only include US Citizens. > I bet if I asked all those AMERICANS that are not insured if they > wanted health insurance, they would scream YES! But, the fact is that > many of them can't get it because they either have a pre-existing > condition or they can't financially afford the premiums because either > they are unemployed; POOR; Underemployed; or their employer can't > afford the premiums or IF they are lucky enough to have medical insurx > in the first place- have huge premiums that keep going up. > Don't put YOUR words into my mouth. I never stated capitalism is wrong > and I agree that health insurance SHOULD be portable. I think if you > can get a better price on insurx in another state then you should be > able to buy it. BUT, the private insurance companies don't allow that. > that is part of the problem. That is what the health care reform would > fix. > > As far as universal healthcare in the UK, Europe, Australia and Canada > goes. You are Incorrect because I have family all over the globe and > they ALL love their universal healthcare! The US already has rationing > and waiting lists. You can NOT tell me that if you wanted to have an > elective surgery tomorrow or even this week that your insurance would > allow you. That only exists with those " Cadillac plans " . All other > medical insurx plans have pre-authorization processes that takes > weeks. I know because I deal with that ALL THE TIME. > My friend Malcolm is a surgeon and everyone of his patients' insurance > companies ALL have a Pre-authorization process that his office has to > work through and unless it is emergency surgery, he can not operate > right away. ERGO, there is a waiting period. > > I don't need to Google UK healthcare, because I know about it first > hand and It was Great! Never got a bill. And ZERO waiting! ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Here is a more recent healthcare from a website you sited: http://www.gallup com/poll/124715/Majority-Americans-Not-Backing-Healthcare-Bill.aspx -- Re: Fw: Re:Rationing hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 11:24 AM Nancie, you're truly living in a dream world. Try putting " problems with UK healthcare system " into Google and read just a few of the first hits. It puts the lie to everything you say about the healthcare system there. There are over 12 million hits. But I know you won't dare; you're not going to look at any evidence that contradicts your opinions. You're going to ignore the vast quantity of data that expresses a different viewpoint that contradicts yours. Here's just one of the 12 million hits: .. .. > > > *UK* Health Care *System* In Need of Repair > > by Carty, MD, MSPH > 01-26-2008 > > > Inadequate facilities, poor quality medical and nursing care in > several British hospitals cause deaths from intestinal infections. > > Imagine that you are seriously, even critically ill. You are in a > dirty, rundown, understaffed hospital. The nurses, doctors, and other > employees are rude, inattentive, and incompetent, and you can’t get > out. What could be more terrifying? > > Such, apparently, was the nightmarish predicament of a number of > patients with serious intestinal infections in a group of British > hospitals between 2004 and 2006. An October 2007 report by the > government’s Commission for *Healthcare* Audit and Inspection has > exposed a number of deficiencies in the UK’s rickety government-run > health care *system*, the National Health Service (NHS). The report > showed that outbreaks of Clostridium difficile (C. diff.) intestinal > infections in several NHS hospitals: Kent Hospital, Sussex Hospital, > and Maidstone Hospital, directly caused at least 90 deaths between > 2004 and 2006 and contributed to many more. C. diff. is a type of > bacterium which can cause serious intestinal infections, often after > the administration of antibiotics. > > The report documented poor quality medical and nursing care and > inadequate infection control measures. Doctors made mistakes in > antibiotic prescribing, fluid and nutrition management, and in many > other aspects of care. > > Nurses frequently did not wash their hands, wear gloves and gowns, > clean mattresses, empty and clean commodes, feed patients, or give > patients their medications. Patients who asked for help in going to > the toilet were often told to “go in the bed,†then left to lie in > their own urine and stool for long periods. Patients and family > members described the care as “despicable,†“sickening,†and “appalling,†> > Drity sink in clean utility room in UK hospital > > A sink in the " clean " utility room > > The NHS hospitals involved were old, dirty, and rundown. Although > patients with C. diff. infection should be put in single rooms to > prevent transmission of the infection to other patients, this was > usually impossible. Only 10% of the hospitals’ beds were in single > rooms. Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows > in large rooms. One hospital had only one sink for every 6 beds, and > the other two hospitals had one sink for every 12 beds. > > > Empty apologies, empty promises. > > The public release of the report was followed by the usual cynical > apologies and promises of reform and “zero tolerance.†In addition to > the C. diff. outbreaks at Kent, Sussex, and Maidstone hospitals, a > similar outbreak at another NHS hospital, Stoke Mandeville Hospital, > caused 33 deaths between 2003 and 2005. > > Beds jammed together in a UK hospital contributed to spread of infection > > Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows in > large rooms > > > *UK* health care *system* needs a makeover. > > How did the *UK* end up with such a dysfunctional health care > *system*? The English are prosperous, intelligent, even brilliant > people. One of my medical school professors, originally from the *UK*, > published the first account of a carotid endarterectomy, the operation > to clean out the arteries in the neck to prevent strokes. He was > famous as a surgeon, professor, and writer and operated on Winston > Churchill and the King of Kuwait. > > > Inadequate funding, poor management. > > Although government mismanagement is without question part of the > problem, the *UK* spends much less on health care than the US. Still, > the British government nationalized the health care *system* in 1948 > and has had over fifty years to work the kinks out of the *system*. > > The British people deserve better. > .. .. That's what you want for us??? .. .. > > Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspirit@... > <mailto:deifspirit@msn com?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3ARationing> > aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > > Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:26 pm (PST) > > > > the numbers are from Think Tanks and from policy centers as in RAND; > UCLA Public Health and from Gerard from Hopkins > Bloomberg School of Public Health. So are you calling Prof. 's > research and data all a lie?? > The numbers are factual. They also only include US Citizens. > I bet if I asked all those AMERICANS that are not insured if they > wanted health insurance, they would scream YES! But, the fact is that > many of them can't get it because they either have a pre-existing > condition or they can't financially afford the premiums because either > they are unemployed; POOR; Underemployed; or their employer can't > afford the premiums or IF they are lucky enough to have medical insurx > in the first place- have huge premiums that keep going up. > Don't put YOUR words into my mouth. I never stated capitalism is wrong > and I agree that health insurance SHOULD be portable. I think if you > can get a better price on insurx in another state then you should be > able to buy it. BUT, the private insurance companies don't allow that. > that is part of the problem. That is what the health care reform would > fix. > > As far as universal healthcare in the UK, Europe, Australia and Canada > goes. You are Incorrect because I have family all over the globe and > they ALL love their universal healthcare! The US already has rationing > and waiting lists. You can NOT tell me that if you wanted to have an > elective surgery tomorrow or even this week that your insurance would > allow you. That only exists with those " Cadillac plans " . All other > medical insurx plans have pre-authorization processes that takes > weeks. I know because I deal with that ALL THE TIME. > My friend Malcolm is a surgeon and everyone of his patients' insurance > companies ALL have a Pre-authorization process that his office has to > work through and unless it is emergency surgery, he can not operate > right away. ERGO, there is a waiting period. > > I don't need to Google UK healthcare, because I know about it first > hand and It was Great! Never got a bill. And ZERO waiting! ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 There are very few people, except the people that are indigent for one reason or another that think people who work for a living should be paying for everyone else. Everyone needs to participate in the society. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > Nancie, the problem is that you cannot interpret the constitution to include > healthcare. I'm pretty sure people died much earlier and faced many more > killer diseases than we do today when the constitution was being constructed > Therefore, if the writers intended for the govt to take care of people's > health, they would have written that in. I wonder who comes up with the # > of people who are uninsured? I bet there are way less. Also, how many of > those are here illegally? Those people still wont be eligible for > healthcare if they were citizens. Also, how many of the uninsured choose to > be uninsured? A large majority of the uninsured can afford it if they > wanted to. Having insurance has to be a priority for people (not a cell > phone and cable and other forms of entertainment). I'm not saying the > private insurance companied are perfect, they need work! Chuck is right > about allowing people to buy across state lines. That would virtually wipe > out the problems. Oh but capitalism is wrong, I forgot. > > Universal healthcare presents all kinds of waiting lists. That is why > people who live in the UK and Canada come here. In my personal opinion what > needs to be illegal is cigarettes. If the govt wants to get involved in the > healthcare of people so bad, that's the first place they should start. Shut > down the tobacco factories and a lot of people will have their lives saved. > I bet they leave those people up and running though. However, they will > tell you since you have a high BMI you will be penalized. Google UK > healthcare and see what you get. > > My best friend has a daughter who had cancer when she was 5. She was on > chemo for 2 and a half years. The bills stacked up and 5 years later they > are still paying. Ask them if they think the govt should be in charge of > their daughters healthcare and they say no!!!! > > Google Huffman who is a British politician and see what he said about > their healthcare system. He was a supporter of Obama BTW. Govt healthcare > is a mistake! > -- Re: Re:Rationing > > Nancie, > > You wrote about the AMA position: >> >> here is their opinion and support stance: >> http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 > shtml >> <http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/health-system-reform/bulletin/23dec2009 > shtml> > > Please note that this refers to the Senate bill. All of our discussion > to this point was about the house bill. According to this statement, > support of a conference agreement is contingent on getting rid of > exactly those parts to which I objected. > > Chuck -- Steve - dudescholar4@... " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism " Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_England Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075oh@...> Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 11:24 AM Nancie, you're truly living in a dream world. Try putting " problems with UK healthcare system " into Google and read just a few of the first hits. It puts the lie to everything you say about the healthcare system there. There are over 12 million hits. But I know you won't dare; you're not going to look at any evidence that contradicts your opinions. You're going to ignore the vast quantity of data that expresses a different viewpoint that contradicts yours. Here's just one of the 12 million hits: .. .. > > >   *UK* Health Care *System* In Need of Repair > > by Carty, MD, MSPH > 01-26-2008 > > >     Inadequate facilities, poor quality medical and nursing care in >     several British hospitals cause deaths from intestinal infections. > > Imagine that you are seriously, even critically ill. You are in a > dirty, rundown, understaffed hospital. The nurses, doctors, and other > employees are rude, inattentive, and incompetent, and you can’t get > out. What could be more terrifying? > > Such, apparently, was the nightmarish predicament of a number of > patients with serious intestinal infections in a group of British > hospitals between 2004 and 2006. An October 2007 report by the > government’s Commission for *Healthcare* Audit and Inspection has > exposed a number of deficiencies in the UK’s rickety government-run > health care *system*, the National Health Service (NHS). The report > showed that outbreaks of Clostridium difficile (C. diff.) intestinal > infections in several NHS hospitals: Kent Hospital, Sussex Hospital, > and Maidstone Hospital, directly caused at least 90 deaths between > 2004 and 2006 and contributed to many more. C. diff. is a type of > bacterium which can cause serious intestinal infections, often after > the administration of antibiotics. > > The report documented poor quality medical and nursing care and > inadequate infection control measures. Doctors made mistakes in > antibiotic prescribing, fluid and nutrition management, and in many > other aspects of care. > > Nurses frequently did not wash their hands, wear gloves and gowns, > clean mattresses, empty and clean commodes, feed patients, or give > patients their medications. Patients who asked for help in going to > the toilet were often told to “go in the bed,†then left to lie in > their own urine and stool for long periods. Patients and family > members described the care as “despicable,†“sickening,†and “appalling,†> > Drity sink in clean utility room in UK hospital > > A sink in the " clean " utility room > > The NHS hospitals involved were old, dirty, and rundown. Although > patients with C. diff. infection should be put in single rooms to > prevent transmission of the infection to other patients, this was > usually impossible. Only 10% of the hospitals’ beds were in single > rooms. Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows > in large rooms. One hospital had only one sink for every 6 beds, and > the other two hospitals had one sink for every 12 beds. > > >     Empty apologies, empty promises. > > The public release of the report was followed by the usual cynical > apologies and promises of reform and “zero tolerance.†In addition to > the C. diff. outbreaks at Kent, Sussex, and Maidstone hospitals, a > similar outbreak at another NHS hospital, Stoke Mandeville Hospital, > caused 33 deaths between 2003 and 2005. > > Beds jammed together in a UK hospital contributed to spread of infection > > Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows in > large rooms > > >     *UK* health care *system* needs a makeover. > > How did the *UK* end up with such a dysfunctional health care > *system*? The English are prosperous, intelligent, even brilliant > people. One of my medical school professors, originally from the *UK*, > published the first account of a carotid endarterectomy, the operation > to clean out the arteries in the neck to prevent strokes. He was > famous as a surgeon, professor, and writer and operated on Winston > Churchill and the King of Kuwait. > > >     Inadequate funding, poor management. > > Although government mismanagement is without question part of the > problem, the *UK* spends much less on health care than the US. Still, > the British government nationalized the health care *system* in 1948 > and has had over fifty years to work the kinks out of the *system*. > > The British people deserve better. > .. .. That's what you want for us??? .. .. > >     Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspirit@... >     <mailto:deifspirit@msn com?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3ARationing> >     aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > >      Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:26 pm (PST) > > > > the numbers are from Think Tanks and from policy centers as in RAND; > UCLA Public Health and from Gerard from Hopkins > Bloomberg School of Public Health. So are you calling Prof. 's > research and data all a lie?? > The numbers are factual. They also only include US Citizens. > I bet if I asked all those AMERICANS that are not insured if they > wanted health insurance, they would scream YES! But, the fact is that > many of them can't get it because they either have a pre-existing > condition or they can't financially afford the premiums because either > they are unemployed; POOR; Underemployed; or their employer can't > afford the premiums or IF they are lucky enough to have medical insurx > in the first place- have huge premiums that keep going up. > Don't put YOUR words into my mouth. I never stated capitalism is wrong > and I agree that health insurance SHOULD be portable. I think if you > can get a better price on insurx in another state then you should be > able to buy it. BUT, the private insurance companies don't allow that. > that is part of the problem. That is what the health care reform would > fix. > > As far as universal healthcare in the UK, Europe, Australia and Canada > goes. You are Incorrect because I have family all over the globe and > they ALL love their universal healthcare! The US already has rationing > and waiting lists. You can NOT tell me that if you wanted to have an > elective surgery tomorrow or even this week that your insurance would > allow you. That only exists with those " Cadillac plans " . All other > medical insurx plans have pre-authorization processes that takes > weeks. I know because I deal with that ALL THE TIME. > My friend Malcolm is a surgeon and everyone of his patients' insurance > companies ALL have a Pre-authorization process that his office has to > work through and unless it is emergency surgery, he can not operate > right away. ERGO, there is a waiting period. > > I don't need to Google UK healthcare, because I know about it first > hand and It was Great! Never got a bill. And ZERO waiting! ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 The site you put on your post is not what you said it was. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075oh@...> Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 11:24 AM Nancie, you're truly living in a dream world. Try putting " problems with UK healthcare system " into Google and read just a few of the first hits. It puts the lie to everything you say about the healthcare system there. There are over 12 million hits. But I know you won't dare; you're not going to look at any evidence that contradicts your opinions. You're going to ignore the vast quantity of data that expresses a different viewpoint that contradicts yours. Here's just one of the 12 million hits: .. .. > > >   *UK* Health Care *System* In Need of Repair > > by Carty, MD, MSPH > 01-26-2008 > > >     Inadequate facilities, poor quality medical and nursing care in >     several British hospitals cause deaths from intestinal infections. > > Imagine that you are seriously, even critically ill. You are in a > dirty, rundown, understaffed hospital. The nurses, doctors, and other > employees are rude, inattentive, and incompetent, and you can’t get > out. What could be more terrifying? > > Such, apparently, was the nightmarish predicament of a number of > patients with serious intestinal infections in a group of British > hospitals between 2004 and 2006. An October 2007 report by the > government’s Commission for *Healthcare* Audit and Inspection has > exposed a number of deficiencies in the UK’s rickety government-run > health care *system*, the National Health Service (NHS). The report > showed that outbreaks of Clostridium difficile (C. diff.) intestinal > infections in several NHS hospitals: Kent Hospital, Sussex Hospital, > and Maidstone Hospital, directly caused at least 90 deaths between > 2004 and 2006 and contributed to many more. C. diff. is a type of > bacterium which can cause serious intestinal infections, often after > the administration of antibiotics. > > The report documented poor quality medical and nursing care and > inadequate infection control measures. Doctors made mistakes in > antibiotic prescribing, fluid and nutrition management, and in many > other aspects of care. > > Nurses frequently did not wash their hands, wear gloves and gowns, > clean mattresses, empty and clean commodes, feed patients, or give > patients their medications. Patients who asked for help in going to > the toilet were often told to “go in the bed,†then left to lie in > their own urine and stool for long periods. Patients and family > members described the care as “despicable,†“sickening,†and “appalling,†> > Drity sink in clean utility room in UK hospital > > A sink in the " clean " utility room > > The NHS hospitals involved were old, dirty, and rundown. Although > patients with C. diff. infection should be put in single rooms to > prevent transmission of the infection to other patients, this was > usually impossible. Only 10% of the hospitals’ beds were in single > rooms. Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows > in large rooms. One hospital had only one sink for every 6 beds, and > the other two hospitals had one sink for every 12 beds. > > >     Empty apologies, empty promises. > > The public release of the report was followed by the usual cynical > apologies and promises of reform and “zero tolerance.†In addition to > the C. diff. outbreaks at Kent, Sussex, and Maidstone hospitals, a > similar outbreak at another NHS hospital, Stoke Mandeville Hospital, > caused 33 deaths between 2003 and 2005. > > Beds jammed together in a UK hospital contributed to spread of infection > > Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows in > large rooms > > >     *UK* health care *system* needs a makeover. > > How did the *UK* end up with such a dysfunctional health care > *system*? The English are prosperous, intelligent, even brilliant > people. One of my medical school professors, originally from the *UK*, > published the first account of a carotid endarterectomy, the operation > to clean out the arteries in the neck to prevent strokes. He was > famous as a surgeon, professor, and writer and operated on Winston > Churchill and the King of Kuwait. > > >     Inadequate funding, poor management. > > Although government mismanagement is without question part of the > problem, the *UK* spends much less on health care than the US. Still, > the British government nationalized the health care *system* in 1948 > and has had over fifty years to work the kinks out of the *system*. > > The British people deserve better. > .. .. That's what you want for us??? .. .. > >     Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspirit@... >     <mailto:deifspirit@msn com?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3ARationing> >     aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > >      Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:26 pm (PST) > > > > the numbers are from Think Tanks and from policy centers as in RAND; > UCLA Public Health and from Gerard from Hopkins > Bloomberg School of Public Health. So are you calling Prof. 's > research and data all a lie?? > The numbers are factual. They also only include US Citizens. > I bet if I asked all those AMERICANS that are not insured if they > wanted health insurance, they would scream YES! But, the fact is that > many of them can't get it because they either have a pre-existing > condition or they can't financially afford the premiums because either > they are unemployed; POOR; Underemployed; or their employer can't > afford the premiums or IF they are lucky enough to have medical insurx > in the first place- have huge premiums that keep going up. > Don't put YOUR words into my mouth. I never stated capitalism is wrong > and I agree that health insurance SHOULD be portable. I think if you > can get a better price on insurx in another state then you should be > able to buy it. BUT, the private insurance companies don't allow that. > that is part of the problem. That is what the health care reform would > fix. > > As far as universal healthcare in the UK, Europe, Australia and Canada > goes. You are Incorrect because I have family all over the globe and > they ALL love their universal healthcare! The US already has rationing > and waiting lists. You can NOT tell me that if you wanted to have an > elective surgery tomorrow or even this week that your insurance would > allow you. That only exists with those " Cadillac plans " . All other > medical insurx plans have pre-authorization processes that takes > weeks. I know because I deal with that ALL THE TIME. > My friend Malcolm is a surgeon and everyone of his patients' insurance > companies ALL have a Pre-authorization process that his office has to > work through and unless it is emergency surgery, he can not operate > right away. ERGO, there is a waiting period. > > I don't need to Google UK healthcare, because I know about it first > hand and It was Great! Never got a bill. And ZERO waiting! ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Posting links from Wikipedia is as good as posting here. Their citations are from private citizens and are not verified. I'm not quite sure what the article is about, but I know that it's not a reliable site for truly accurate info about such heated subjects. CW -- Re: Fw: Re:Rationing hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 11:24 AM Nancie, you're truly living in a dream world. Try putting " problems with UK healthcare system " into Google and read just a few of the first hits. It puts the lie to everything you say about the healthcare system there. There are over 12 million hits. But I know you won't dare; you're not going to look at any evidence that contradicts your opinions. You're going to ignore the vast quantity of data that expresses a different viewpoint that contradicts yours. Here's just one of the 12 million hits: .. .. > > > *UK* Health Care *System* In Need of Repair > > by Carty, MD, MSPH > 01-26-2008 > > > Inadequate facilities, poor quality medical and nursing care in > several British hospitals cause deaths from intestinal infections. > > Imagine that you are seriously, even critically ill. You are in a > dirty, rundown, understaffed hospital. The nurses, doctors, and other > employees are rude, inattentive, and incompetent, and you can’t get > out. What could be more terrifying? > > Such, apparently, was the nightmarish predicament of a number of > patients with serious intestinal infections in a group of British > hospitals between 2004 and 2006. An October 2007 report by the > government’s Commission for *Healthcare* Audit and Inspection has > exposed a number of deficiencies in the UK’s rickety government-run > health care *system*, the National Health Service (NHS). The report > showed that outbreaks of Clostridium difficile (C. diff.) intestinal > infections in several NHS hospitals: Kent Hospital, Sussex Hospital, > and Maidstone Hospital, directly caused at least 90 deaths between > 2004 and 2006 and contributed to many more. C. diff. is a type of > bacterium which can cause serious intestinal infections, often after > the administration of antibiotics. > > The report documented poor quality medical and nursing care and > inadequate infection control measures. Doctors made mistakes in > antibiotic prescribing, fluid and nutrition management, and in many > other aspects of care. > > Nurses frequently did not wash their hands, wear gloves and gowns, > clean mattresses, empty and clean commodes, feed patients, or give > patients their medications. Patients who asked for help in going to > the toilet were often told to “go in the bed,†then left to lie in > their own urine and stool for long periods. Patients and family > members described the care as “despicable,†“sickening,†and “appalling,†> > Drity sink in clean utility room in UK hospital > > A sink in the " clean " utility room > > The NHS hospitals involved were old, dirty, and rundown. Although > patients with C. diff. infection should be put in single rooms to > prevent transmission of the infection to other patients, this was > usually impossible. Only 10% of the hospitals’ beds were in single > rooms. Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows > in large rooms. One hospital had only one sink for every 6 beds, and > the other two hospitals had one sink for every 12 beds. > > > Empty apologies, empty promises. > > The public release of the report was followed by the usual cynical > apologies and promises of reform and “zero tolerance.†In addition to > the C. diff. outbreaks at Kent, Sussex, and Maidstone hospitals, a > similar outbreak at another NHS hospital, Stoke Mandeville Hospital, > caused 33 deaths between 2003 and 2005. > > Beds jammed together in a UK hospital contributed to spread of infection > > Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows in > large rooms > > > *UK* health care *system* needs a makeover. > > How did the *UK* end up with such a dysfunctional health care > *system*? The English are prosperous, intelligent, even brilliant > people. One of my medical school professors, originally from the *UK*, > published the first account of a carotid endarterectomy, the operation > to clean out the arteries in the neck to prevent strokes. He was > famous as a surgeon, professor, and writer and operated on Winston > Churchill and the King of Kuwait. > > > Inadequate funding, poor management. > > Although government mismanagement is without question part of the > problem, the *UK* spends much less on health care than the US. Still, > the British government nationalized the health care *system* in 1948 > and has had over fifty years to work the kinks out of the *system*. > > The British people deserve better. > .. .. That's what you want for us??? .. .. > > Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspirit@... > <mailto:deifspirit@msn com?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3ARationing> > aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > > Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:26 pm (PST) > > > > the numbers are from Think Tanks and from policy centers as in RAND; > UCLA Public Health and from Gerard from Hopkins > Bloomberg School of Public Health. So are you calling Prof. 's > research and data all a lie?? > The numbers are factual. They also only include US Citizens. > I bet if I asked all those AMERICANS that are not insured if they > wanted health insurance, they would scream YES! But, the fact is that > many of them can't get it because they either have a pre-existing > condition or they can't financially afford the premiums because either > they are unemployed; POOR; Underemployed; or their employer can't > afford the premiums or IF they are lucky enough to have medical insurx > in the first place- have huge premiums that keep going up. > Don't put YOUR words into my mouth. I never stated capitalism is wrong > and I agree that health insurance SHOULD be portable. I think if you > can get a better price on insurx in another state then you should be > able to buy it. BUT, the private insurance companies don't allow that. > that is part of the problem. That is what the health care reform would > fix. > > As far as universal healthcare in the UK, Europe, Australia and Canada > goes. You are Incorrect because I have family all over the globe and > they ALL love their universal healthcare! The US already has rationing > and waiting lists. You can NOT tell me that if you wanted to have an > elective surgery tomorrow or even this week that your insurance would > allow you. That only exists with those " Cadillac plans " . All other > medical insurx plans have pre-authorization processes that takes > weeks. I know because I deal with that ALL THE TIME. > My friend Malcolm is a surgeon and everyone of his patients' insurance > companies ALL have a Pre-authorization process that his office has to > work through and unless it is emergency surgery, he can not operate > right away. ERGO, there is a waiting period. > > I don't need to Google UK healthcare, because I know about it first > hand and It was Great! Never got a bill. And ZERO waiting! ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I'm not sure what you mean? You posted a link to a Gallup poll that was outdated, I simply posted a link to a Gallup poll that was posted in December 2009. CW -- Re: Fw: Re:Rationing hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 11:24 AM Nancie, you're truly living in a dream world. Try putting " problems with UK healthcare system " into Google and read just a few of the first hits. It puts the lie to everything you say about the healthcare system there. There are over 12 million hits. But I know you won't dare; you're not going to look at any evidence that contradicts your opinions. You're going to ignore the vast quantity of data that expresses a different viewpoint that contradicts yours. Here's just one of the 12 million hits: .. .. > > > *UK* Health Care *System* In Need of Repair > > by Carty, MD, MSPH > 01-26-2008 > > > Inadequate facilities, poor quality medical and nursing care in > several British hospitals cause deaths from intestinal infections. > > Imagine that you are seriously, even critically ill. You are in a > dirty, rundown, understaffed hospital. The nurses, doctors, and other > employees are rude, inattentive, and incompetent, and you can’t get > out. What could be more terrifying? > > Such, apparently, was the nightmarish predicament of a number of > patients with serious intestinal infections in a group of British > hospitals between 2004 and 2006. An October 2007 report by the > government’s Commission for *Healthcare* Audit and Inspection has > exposed a number of deficiencies in the UK’s rickety government-run > health care *system*, the National Health Service (NHS). The report > showed that outbreaks of Clostridium difficile (C. diff.) intestinal > infections in several NHS hospitals: Kent Hospital, Sussex Hospital, > and Maidstone Hospital, directly caused at least 90 deaths between > 2004 and 2006 and contributed to many more. C. diff. is a type of > bacterium which can cause serious intestinal infections, often after > the administration of antibiotics. > > The report documented poor quality medical and nursing care and > inadequate infection control measures. Doctors made mistakes in > antibiotic prescribing, fluid and nutrition management, and in many > other aspects of care. > > Nurses frequently did not wash their hands, wear gloves and gowns, > clean mattresses, empty and clean commodes, feed patients, or give > patients their medications. Patients who asked for help in going to > the toilet were often told to “go in the bed,†then left to lie in > their own urine and stool for long periods. Patients and family > members described the care as “despicable,†“sickening,†and “appalling,†> > Drity sink in clean utility room in UK hospital > > A sink in the " clean " utility room > > The NHS hospitals involved were old, dirty, and rundown. Although > patients with C. diff. infection should be put in single rooms to > prevent transmission of the infection to other patients, this was > usually impossible. Only 10% of the hospitals’ beds were in single > rooms. Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows > in large rooms. One hospital had only one sink for every 6 beds, and > the other two hospitals had one sink for every 12 beds. > > > Empty apologies, empty promises. > > The public release of the report was followed by the usual cynical > apologies and promises of reform and “zero tolerance.†In addition to > the C. diff. outbreaks at Kent, Sussex, and Maidstone hospitals, a > similar outbreak at another NHS hospital, Stoke Mandeville Hospital, > caused 33 deaths between 2003 and 2005. > > Beds jammed together in a UK hospital contributed to spread of infection > > Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows in > large rooms > > > *UK* health care *system* needs a makeover. > > How did the *UK* end up with such a dysfunctional health care > *system*? The English are prosperous, intelligent, even brilliant > people. One of my medical school professors, originally from the *UK*, > published the first account of a carotid endarterectomy, the operation > to clean out the arteries in the neck to prevent strokes. He was > famous as a surgeon, professor, and writer and operated on Winston > Churchill and the King of Kuwait. > > > Inadequate funding, poor management. > > Although government mismanagement is without question part of the > problem, the *UK* spends much less on health care than the US. Still, > the British government nationalized the health care *system* in 1948 > and has had over fifty years to work the kinks out of the *system*. > > The British people deserve better. > .. .. That's what you want for us??? .. .. > > Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspirit@... > <mailto:deifspirit@msn com?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3ARationing> > aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > > Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:26 pm (PST) > > > > the numbers are from Think Tanks and from policy centers as in RAND; > UCLA Public Health and from Gerard from Hopkins > Bloomberg School of Public Health. So are you calling Prof. 's > research and data all a lie?? > The numbers are factual. They also only include US Citizens. > I bet if I asked all those AMERICANS that are not insured if they > wanted health insurance, they would scream YES! But, the fact is that > many of them can't get it because they either have a pre-existing > condition or they can't financially afford the premiums because either > they are unemployed; POOR; Underemployed; or their employer can't > afford the premiums or IF they are lucky enough to have medical insurx > in the first place- have huge premiums that keep going up. > Don't put YOUR words into my mouth. I never stated capitalism is wrong > and I agree that health insurance SHOULD be portable. I think if you > can get a better price on insurx in another state then you should be > able to buy it. BUT, the private insurance companies don't allow that. > that is part of the problem. That is what the health care reform would > fix. > > As far as universal healthcare in the UK, Europe, Australia and Canada > goes. You are Incorrect because I have family all over the globe and > they ALL love their universal healthcare! The US already has rationing > and waiting lists. You can NOT tell me that if you wanted to have an > elective surgery tomorrow or even this week that your insurance would > allow you. That only exists with those " Cadillac plans " . All other > medical insurx plans have pre-authorization processes that takes > weeks. I know because I deal with that ALL THE TIME. > My friend Malcolm is a surgeon and everyone of his patients' insurance > companies ALL have a Pre-authorization process that his office has to > work through and unless it is emergency surgery, he can not operate > right away. ERGO, there is a waiting period. > > I don't need to Google UK healthcare, because I know about it first > hand and It was Great! Never got a bill. And ZERO waiting! ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Crystal, this is what comes up from the address you posted.  http://search3.comcast.com/?cat=dnsr & con=ds & url=www.gallup Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075oh@...> Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 11:24 AM Nancie, you're truly living in a dream world. Try putting " problems with UK healthcare system " into Google and read just a few of the first hits. It puts the lie to everything you say about the healthcare system there. There are over 12 million hits. But I know you won't dare; you're not going to look at any evidence that contradicts your opinions. You're going to ignore the vast quantity of data that expresses a different viewpoint that contradicts yours. Here's just one of the 12 million hits: .. .. > > >   *UK* Health Care *System* In Need of Repair > > by Carty, MD, MSPH > 01-26-2008 > > >     Inadequate facilities, poor quality medical and nursing care in >     several British hospitals cause deaths from intestinal infections. > > Imagine that you are seriously, even critically ill. You are in a > dirty, rundown, understaffed hospital. The nurses, doctors, and other > employees are rude, inattentive, and incompetent, and you can’t get > out. What could be more terrifying? > > Such, apparently, was the nightmarish predicament of a number of > patients with serious intestinal infections in a group of British > hospitals between 2004 and 2006. An October 2007 report by the > government’s Commission for *Healthcare* Audit and Inspection has > exposed a number of deficiencies in the UK’s rickety government-run > health care *system*, the National Health Service (NHS). The report > showed that outbreaks of Clostridium difficile (C. diff.) intestinal > infections in several NHS hospitals: Kent Hospital, Sussex Hospital, > and Maidstone Hospital, directly caused at least 90 deaths between > 2004 and 2006 and contributed to many more. C. diff. is a type of > bacterium which can cause serious intestinal infections, often after > the administration of antibiotics. > > The report documented poor quality medical and nursing care and > inadequate infection control measures. Doctors made mistakes in > antibiotic prescribing, fluid and nutrition management, and in many > other aspects of care. > > Nurses frequently did not wash their hands, wear gloves and gowns, > clean mattresses, empty and clean commodes, feed patients, or give > patients their medications. Patients who asked for help in going to > the toilet were often told to “go in the bed,†then left to lie in > their own urine and stool for long periods. Patients and family > members described the care as “despicable,†“sickening,†and “appalling,†> > Drity sink in clean utility room in UK hospital > > A sink in the " clean " utility room > > The NHS hospitals involved were old, dirty, and rundown. Although > patients with C. diff. infection should be put in single rooms to > prevent transmission of the infection to other patients, this was > usually impossible. Only 10% of the hospitals’ beds were in single > rooms. Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows > in large rooms. One hospital had only one sink for every 6 beds, and > the other two hospitals had one sink for every 12 beds. > > >     Empty apologies, empty promises. > > The public release of the report was followed by the usual cynical > apologies and promises of reform and “zero tolerance.†In addition to > the C. diff. outbreaks at Kent, Sussex, and Maidstone hospitals, a > similar outbreak at another NHS hospital, Stoke Mandeville Hospital, > caused 33 deaths between 2003 and 2005. > > Beds jammed together in a UK hospital contributed to spread of infection > > Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows in > large rooms > > >     *UK* health care *system* needs a makeover. > > How did the *UK* end up with such a dysfunctional health care > *system*? The English are prosperous, intelligent, even brilliant > people. One of my medical school professors, originally from the *UK*, > published the first account of a carotid endarterectomy, the operation > to clean out the arteries in the neck to prevent strokes. He was > famous as a surgeon, professor, and writer and operated on Winston > Churchill and the King of Kuwait. > > >     Inadequate funding, poor management. > > Although government mismanagement is without question part of the > problem, the *UK* spends much less on health care than the US. Still, > the British government nationalized the health care *system* in 1948 > and has had over fifty years to work the kinks out of the *system*. > > The British people deserve better. > .. .. That's what you want for us??? .. .. > >     Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspirit@... >     <mailto:deifspirit@msn com?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3ARationing> >     aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > >      Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:26 pm (PST) > > > > the numbers are from Think Tanks and from policy centers as in RAND; > UCLA Public Health and from Gerard from Hopkins > Bloomberg School of Public Health. So are you calling Prof. 's > research and data all a lie?? > The numbers are factual. They also only include US Citizens. > I bet if I asked all those AMERICANS that are not insured if they > wanted health insurance, they would scream YES! But, the fact is that > many of them can't get it because they either have a pre-existing > condition or they can't financially afford the premiums because either > they are unemployed; POOR; Underemployed; or their employer can't > afford the premiums or IF they are lucky enough to have medical insurx > in the first place- have huge premiums that keep going up. > Don't put YOUR words into my mouth. I never stated capitalism is wrong > and I agree that health insurance SHOULD be portable. I think if you > can get a better price on insurx in another state then you should be > able to buy it. BUT, the private insurance companies don't allow that. > that is part of the problem. That is what the health care reform would > fix. > > As far as universal healthcare in the UK, Europe, Australia and Canada > goes. You are Incorrect because I have family all over the globe and > they ALL love their universal healthcare! The US already has rationing > and waiting lists. You can NOT tell me that if you wanted to have an > elective surgery tomorrow or even this week that your insurance would > allow you. That only exists with those " Cadillac plans " . All other > medical insurx plans have pre-authorization processes that takes > weeks. I know because I deal with that ALL THE TIME. > My friend Malcolm is a surgeon and everyone of his patients' insurance > companies ALL have a Pre-authorization process that his office has to > work through and unless it is emergency surgery, he can not operate > right away. ERGO, there is a waiting period. > > I don't need to Google UK healthcare, because I know about it first > hand and It was Great! Never got a bill. And ZERO waiting! ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Given that I've never watched Fox news in my life why do you think I " adore " them??? I must admit that anything that gives the liberals so much heartburn has a certain appeal to me though. Anyway: I don't understand the logic of comparing the opinions of people as to the availability of affordable health care between a fee for service economy and one where it is " free " . It to me seems kind of like asking someone how please they are with the cost of apples when they are $1 each and asking the same question of those where they are " free " . People who do not know how much " free " really costs them or who are not among the group paying the cost are likely to prefer " free " apples or health care. .. .. > > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20\ Re%3ARationing> > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:39 am (PST) > > > > Here's some info if you put " satisfaction with healthare in UK " into > google. This includes info from your adored FOX NEWS and a GALLUP POLL. > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136990,00.html > <http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136990,00.html> > > http://www.gallup.com/poll/8056/healthcare-system-ratings-us-great-britain-canad\ a.aspx > <http://www.gallup.com/poll/8056/healthcare-system-ratings-us-great-britain-cana\ da.aspx> > > > > Roni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 It looks like the link was broken. Http://www.Gallup com/poll/124715/Majority-Americans-Not-Backing-Healthcare-Bill.aspx here it is again. -- Re: Fw: Re:Rationing hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 11:24 AM Nancie, you're truly living in a dream world. Try putting " problems with UK healthcare system " into Google and read just a few of the first hits. It puts the lie to everything you say about the healthcare system there. There are over 12 million hits. But I know you won't dare; you're not going to look at any evidence that contradicts your opinions. You're going to ignore the vast quantity of data that expresses a different viewpoint that contradicts yours. Here's just one of the 12 million hits: .. .. > > > *UK* Health Care *System* In Need of Repair > > by Carty, MD, MSPH > 01-26-2008 > > > Inadequate facilities, poor quality medical and nursing care in > several British hospitals cause deaths from intestinal infections. > > Imagine that you are seriously, even critically ill. You are in a > dirty, rundown, understaffed hospital. The nurses, doctors, and other > employees are rude, inattentive, and incompetent, and you can’t get > out. What could be more terrifying? > > Such, apparently, was the nightmarish predicament of a number of > patients with serious intestinal infections in a group of British > hospitals between 2004 and 2006. An October 2007 report by the > government’s Commission for *Healthcare* Audit and Inspection has > exposed a number of deficiencies in the UK’s rickety government-run > health care *system*, the National Health Service (NHS). The report > showed that outbreaks of Clostridium difficile (C. diff.) intestinal > infections in several NHS hospitals: Kent Hospital, Sussex Hospital, > and Maidstone Hospital, directly caused at least 90 deaths between > 2004 and 2006 and contributed to many more. C. diff. is a type of > bacterium which can cause serious intestinal infections, often after > the administration of antibiotics. > > The report documented poor quality medical and nursing care and > inadequate infection control measures. Doctors made mistakes in > antibiotic prescribing, fluid and nutrition management, and in many > other aspects of care. > > Nurses frequently did not wash their hands, wear gloves and gowns, > clean mattresses, empty and clean commodes, feed patients, or give > patients their medications. Patients who asked for help in going to > the toilet were often told to “go in the bed,†then left to lie in > their own urine and stool for long periods. Patients and family > members described the care as “despicable,†“sickening,†and “appalling,†> > Drity sink in clean utility room in UK hospital > > A sink in the " clean " utility room > > The NHS hospitals involved were old, dirty, and rundown. Although > patients with C. diff. infection should be put in single rooms to > prevent transmission of the infection to other patients, this was > usually impossible. Only 10% of the hospitals’ beds were in single > rooms. Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows > in large rooms. One hospital had only one sink for every 6 beds, and > the other two hospitals had one sink for every 12 beds. > > > Empty apologies, empty promises. > > The public release of the report was followed by the usual cynical > apologies and promises of reform and “zero tolerance.†In addition to > the C. diff. outbreaks at Kent, Sussex, and Maidstone hospitals, a > similar outbreak at another NHS hospital, Stoke Mandeville Hospital, > caused 33 deaths between 2003 and 2005. > > Beds jammed together in a UK hospital contributed to spread of infection > > Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows in > large rooms > > > *UK* health care *system* needs a makeover. > > How did the *UK* end up with such a dysfunctional health care > *system*? The English are prosperous, intelligent, even brilliant > people. One of my medical school professors, originally from the *UK*, > published the first account of a carotid endarterectomy, the operation > to clean out the arteries in the neck to prevent strokes. He was > famous as a surgeon, professor, and writer and operated on Winston > Churchill and the King of Kuwait. > > > Inadequate funding, poor management. > > Although government mismanagement is without question part of the > problem, the *UK* spends much less on health care than the US. Still, > the British government nationalized the health care *system* in 1948 > and has had over fifty years to work the kinks out of the *system*. > > The British people deserve better. > .. .. That's what you want for us??? .. .. > > Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspirit@... > <mailto:deifspirit@msn com?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3ARationing> > aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > > Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:26 pm (PST) > > > > the numbers are from Think Tanks and from policy centers as in RAND; > UCLA Public Health and from Gerard from Hopkins > Bloomberg School of Public Health. So are you calling Prof. 's > research and data all a lie?? > The numbers are factual. They also only include US Citizens. > I bet if I asked all those AMERICANS that are not insured if they > wanted health insurance, they would scream YES! But, the fact is that > many of them can't get it because they either have a pre-existing > condition or they can't financially afford the premiums because either > they are unemployed; POOR; Underemployed; or their employer can't > afford the premiums or IF they are lucky enough to have medical insurx > in the first place- have huge premiums that keep going up. > Don't put YOUR words into my mouth. I never stated capitalism is wrong > and I agree that health insurance SHOULD be portable. I think if you > can get a better price on insurx in another state then you should be > able to buy it. BUT, the private insurance companies don't allow that. > that is part of the problem. That is what the health care reform would > fix. > > As far as universal healthcare in the UK, Europe, Australia and Canada > goes. You are Incorrect because I have family all over the globe and > they ALL love their universal healthcare! The US already has rationing > and waiting lists. You can NOT tell me that if you wanted to have an > elective surgery tomorrow or even this week that your insurance would > allow you. That only exists with those " Cadillac plans " . All other > medical insurx plans have pre-authorization processes that takes > weeks. I know because I deal with that ALL THE TIME. > My friend Malcolm is a surgeon and everyone of his patients' insurance > companies ALL have a Pre-authorization process that his office has to > work through and unless it is emergency surgery, he can not operate > right away. ERGO, there is a waiting period. > > I don't need to Google UK healthcare, because I know about it first > hand and It was Great! Never got a bill. And ZERO waiting! ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Is there a way to unsubscribe to just this thread? ________________________________ From: Crystal <sweetnwright@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Tue, January 12, 2010 3:19:38 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing  It looks like the link was broken. Http://www.Gallup com/poll/124715/ Majority- Americans- Not-Backing- Healthcare- Bill.aspx here it is again. -- Re: Fw: Re:Rationing hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 11:24 AM Nancie, you're truly living in a dream world. Try putting " problems with UK healthcare system " into Google and read just a few of the first hits. It puts the lie to everything you say about the healthcare system there. There are over 12 million hits. But I know you won't dare; you're not going to look at any evidence that contradicts your opinions. You're going to ignore the vast quantity of data that expresses a different viewpoint that contradicts yours. Here's just one of the 12 million hits: .. .. > > > *UK* Health Care *System* In Need of Repair > > by Carty, MD, MSPH > 01-26-2008 > > > Inadequate facilities, poor quality medical and nursing care in > several British hospitals cause deaths from intestinal infections. > > Imagine that you are seriously, even critically ill. You are in a > dirty, rundown, understaffed hospital. The nurses, doctors, and other > employees are rude, inattentive, and incompetent, and you can’t get > out. What could be more terrifying? > > Such, apparently, was the nightmarish predicament of a number of > patients with serious intestinal infections in a group of British > hospitals between 2004 and 2006. An October 2007 report by the > government’s Commission for *Healthcare* Audit and Inspection has > exposed a number of deficiencies in the UK’s rickety government-run > health care *system*, the National Health Service (NHS). The report > showed that outbreaks of Clostridium difficile (C. diff.) intestinal > infections in several NHS hospitals: Kent Hospital, Sussex Hospital, > and Maidstone Hospital, directly caused at least 90 deaths between > 2004 and 2006 and contributed to many more. C. diff. is a type of > bacterium which can cause serious intestinal infections, often after > the administration of antibiotics. > > The report documented poor quality medical and nursing care and > inadequate infection control measures. Doctors made mistakes in > antibiotic prescribing, fluid and nutrition management, and in many > other aspects of care. > > Nurses frequently did not wash their hands, wear gloves and gowns, > clean mattresses, empty and clean commodes, feed patients, or give > patients their medications. Patients who asked for help in going to > the toilet were often told to “go in the bed,†then left to lie in > their own urine and stool for long periods. Patients and family > members described the care as “despicable,†“sickening,†and “appalling,†> > Drity sink in clean utility room in UK hospital > > A sink in the " clean " utility room > > The NHS hospitals involved were old, dirty, and rundown. Although > patients with C. diff. infection should be put in single rooms to > prevent transmission of the infection to other patients, this was > usually impossible. Only 10% of the hospitals’ beds were in single > rooms. Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows > in large rooms. One hospital had only one sink for every 6 beds, and > the other two hospitals had one sink for every 12 beds. > > > Empty apologies, empty promises. > > The public release of the report was followed by the usual cynical > apologies and promises of reform and “zero tolerance.†In addition to > the C. diff. outbreaks at Kent, Sussex, and Maidstone hospitals, a > similar outbreak at another NHS hospital, Stoke Mandeville Hospital, > caused 33 deaths between 2003 and 2005. > > Beds jammed together in a UK hospital contributed to spread of infection > > Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows in > large rooms > > > *UK* health care *system* needs a makeover. > > How did the *UK* end up with such a dysfunctional health care > *system*? The English are prosperous, intelligent, even brilliant > people. One of my medical school professors, originally from the *UK*, > published the first account of a carotid endarterectomy, the operation > to clean out the arteries in the neck to prevent strokes. He was > famous as a surgeon, professor, and writer and operated on Winston > Churchill and the King of Kuwait. > > > Inadequate funding, poor management. > > Although government mismanagement is without question part of the > problem, the *UK* spends much less on health care than the US. Still, > the British government nationalized the health care *system* in 1948 > and has had over fifty years to work the kinks out of the *system*. > > The British people deserve better. > .. .. That's what you want for us??? .. .. > > Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspiritmsn (DOT) com > <mailto:deifspirit@ msn com?Subject= %20Re%3A% 20Fw%3A%20% 5Bhypothyroidism %5D%20Re% 3ARationing> > aspenfairy1 <http://profiles. / aspenfairy1> > > > Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:26 pm (PST) > > > > the numbers are from Think Tanks and from policy centers as in RAND; > UCLA Public Health and from Gerard from Hopkins > Bloomberg School of Public Health. So are you calling Prof. 's > research and data all a lie?? > The numbers are factual. They also only include US Citizens. > I bet if I asked all those AMERICANS that are not insured if they > wanted health insurance, they would scream YES! But, the fact is that > many of them can't get it because they either have a pre-existing > condition or they can't financially afford the premiums because either > they are unemployed; POOR; Underemployed; or their employer can't > afford the premiums or IF they are lucky enough to have medical insurx > in the first place- have huge premiums that keep going up. > Don't put YOUR words into my mouth. I never stated capitalism is wrong > and I agree that health insurance SHOULD be portable. I think if you > can get a better price on insurx in another state then you should be > able to buy it. BUT, the private insurance companies don't allow that. > that is part of the problem. That is what the health care reform would > fix. > > As far as universal healthcare in the UK, Europe, Australia and Canada > goes. You are Incorrect because I have family all over the globe and > they ALL love their universal healthcare! The US already has rationing > and waiting lists. You can NOT tell me that if you wanted to have an > elective surgery tomorrow or even this week that your insurance would > allow you. That only exists with those " Cadillac plans " . All other > medical insurx plans have pre-authorization processes that takes > weeks. I know because I deal with that ALL THE TIME. > My friend Malcolm is a surgeon and everyone of his patients' insurance > companies ALL have a Pre-authorization process that his office has to > work through and unless it is emergency surgery, he can not operate > right away. ERGO, there is a waiting period. > > I don't need to Google UK healthcare, because I know about it first > hand and It was Great! Never got a bill. And ZERO waiting! ------------ --------- --------- ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I don't think that is so for this reason. Countries with universal healthcare traditionally tax their people more than the U. S. does, but their people get the healthcare, education, pension, 4-8 weeks of vacation a year, dental care, child care and some other things we don't get . If you add up the things we spend money on and add that to the taxes we already pay, we are usually spending much more. Whoever said there is no free lunch is still right. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075oh@...> Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 1:13 PM Given that I've never watched Fox news in my life why do you think I " adore " them??? I must admit that anything that gives the liberals so much heartburn has a certain appeal to me though. Anyway: I don't understand the logic of comparing the opinions of people as to the availability of affordable health care between a fee for service economy and one where it is " free " . It to me seems kind of like asking someone how please they are with the cost of apples when they are $1 each and asking the same question of those where they are " free " . People who do not know how much " free " really costs them or who are not among the group paying the cost are likely to prefer " free " apples or health care. .. .. > > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D\ %20Re%3ARationing> > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:39 am (PST) > > > > Here's some info if you put " satisfaction with healthare in UK " into > google. This includes info from your adored FOX NEWS and a GALLUP POLL. > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136990,00.html > <http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136990,00.html> > > http://www.gallup.com/poll/8056/healthcare-system-ratings-us-great-britain-canad\ a.aspx > <http://www.gallup.com/poll/8056/healthcare-system-ratings-us-great-britain-cana\ da.aspx> > > > > Roni ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 It still went to that site with all the choices, not to a specific gallup poll. Where are you Crystal. I'm in the Seattle area and it's been raining for two days. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075oh@...> Subject: Re: Fw: Re:Rationing hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 11:24 AM Nancie, you're truly living in a dream world. Try putting " problems with UK healthcare system " into Google and read just a few of the first hits. It puts the lie to everything you say about the healthcare system there. There are over 12 million hits. But I know you won't dare; you're not going to look at any evidence that contradicts your opinions. You're going to ignore the vast quantity of data that expresses a different viewpoint that contradicts yours. Here's just one of the 12 million hits: .. .. > > >   *UK* Health Care *System* In Need of Repair > > by Carty, MD, MSPH > 01-26-2008 > > >     Inadequate facilities, poor quality medical and nursing care in >     several British hospitals cause deaths from intestinal infections. > > Imagine that you are seriously, even critically ill. You are in a > dirty, rundown, understaffed hospital. The nurses, doctors, and other > employees are rude, inattentive, and incompetent, and you can’t get > out. What could be more terrifying? > > Such, apparently, was the nightmarish predicament of a number of > patients with serious intestinal infections in a group of British > hospitals between 2004 and 2006. An October 2007 report by the > government’s Commission for *Healthcare* Audit and Inspection has > exposed a number of deficiencies in the UK’s rickety government-run > health care *system*, the National Health Service (NHS). The report > showed that outbreaks of Clostridium difficile (C. diff.) intestinal > infections in several NHS hospitals: Kent Hospital, Sussex Hospital, > and Maidstone Hospital, directly caused at least 90 deaths between > 2004 and 2006 and contributed to many more. C. diff. is a type of > bacterium which can cause serious intestinal infections, often after > the administration of antibiotics. > > The report documented poor quality medical and nursing care and > inadequate infection control measures. Doctors made mistakes in > antibiotic prescribing, fluid and nutrition management, and in many > other aspects of care. > > Nurses frequently did not wash their hands, wear gloves and gowns, > clean mattresses, empty and clean commodes, feed patients, or give > patients their medications. Patients who asked for help in going to > the toilet were often told to “go in the bed,†then left to lie in > their own urine and stool for long periods. Patients and family > members described the care as “despicable,†“sickening,†and “appalling,†> > Drity sink in clean utility room in UK hospital > > A sink in the " clean " utility room > > The NHS hospitals involved were old, dirty, and rundown. Although > patients with C. diff. infection should be put in single rooms to > prevent transmission of the infection to other patients, this was > usually impossible. Only 10% of the hospitals’ beds were in single > rooms. Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows > in large rooms. One hospital had only one sink for every 6 beds, and > the other two hospitals had one sink for every 12 beds. > > >     Empty apologies, empty promises. > > The public release of the report was followed by the usual cynical > apologies and promises of reform and “zero tolerance.†In addition to > the C. diff. outbreaks at Kent, Sussex, and Maidstone hospitals, a > similar outbreak at another NHS hospital, Stoke Mandeville Hospital, > caused 33 deaths between 2003 and 2005. > > Beds jammed together in a UK hospital contributed to spread of infection > > Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows in > large rooms > > >     *UK* health care *system* needs a makeover. > > How did the *UK* end up with such a dysfunctional health care > *system*? The English are prosperous, intelligent, even brilliant > people. One of my medical school professors, originally from the *UK*, > published the first account of a carotid endarterectomy, the operation > to clean out the arteries in the neck to prevent strokes. He was > famous as a surgeon, professor, and writer and operated on Winston > Churchill and the King of Kuwait. > > >     Inadequate funding, poor management. > > Although government mismanagement is without question part of the > problem, the *UK* spends much less on health care than the US. Still, > the British government nationalized the health care *system* in 1948 > and has had over fifty years to work the kinks out of the *system*. > > The British people deserve better. > .. .. That's what you want for us??? .. .. > >     Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspirit@... >     <mailto:deifspirit@msn com?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3ARationing> >     aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > >      Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:26 pm (PST) > > > > the numbers are from Think Tanks and from policy centers as in RAND; > UCLA Public Health and from Gerard from Hopkins > Bloomberg School of Public Health. So are you calling Prof. 's > research and data all a lie?? > The numbers are factual. They also only include US Citizens. > I bet if I asked all those AMERICANS that are not insured if they > wanted health insurance, they would scream YES! But, the fact is that > many of them can't get it because they either have a pre-existing > condition or they can't financially afford the premiums because either > they are unemployed; POOR; Underemployed; or their employer can't > afford the premiums or IF they are lucky enough to have medical insurx > in the first place- have huge premiums that keep going up. > Don't put YOUR words into my mouth. I never stated capitalism is wrong > and I agree that health insurance SHOULD be portable. I think if you > can get a better price on insurx in another state then you should be > able to buy it. BUT, the private insurance companies don't allow that. > that is part of the problem. That is what the health care reform would > fix. > > As far as universal healthcare in the UK, Europe, Australia and Canada > goes. You are Incorrect because I have family all over the globe and > they ALL love their universal healthcare! The US already has rationing > and waiting lists. You can NOT tell me that if you wanted to have an > elective surgery tomorrow or even this week that your insurance would > allow you. That only exists with those " Cadillac plans " . All other > medical insurx plans have pre-authorization processes that takes > weeks. I know because I deal with that ALL THE TIME. > My friend Malcolm is a surgeon and everyone of his patients' insurance > companies ALL have a Pre-authorization process that his office has to > work through and unless it is emergency surgery, he can not operate > right away. ERGO, there is a waiting period. > > I don't need to Google UK healthcare, because I know about it first > hand and It was Great! Never got a bill. And ZERO waiting! ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 You are missing the Point because that was not the way our country was intended to be run. The settlers came here to get away from big govt. So comparing the US to other big govt companies isn't fair. We are suppose to follow our constitution not the structure of other countries. CW -- Re: Fw: Re:Rationing hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 1:13 PM Given that I've never watched Fox news in my life why do you think I " adore " them??? I must admit that anything that gives the liberals so much heartburn has a certain appeal to me though. Anyway: I don't understand the logic of comparing the opinions of people as to the availability of affordable health care between a fee for service economy and one where it is " free " . It to me seems kind of like asking someone how please they are with the cost of apples when they are $1 each and asking the same question of those where they are " free " . People who do not know how much " free " really costs them or who are not among the group paying the cost are likely to prefer " free " apples or health care. .. .. > > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam@ com?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3ARationing> > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:39 am (PST) > > > > Here's some info if you put " satisfaction with healthare in UK " into > google. This includes info from your adored FOX NEWS and a GALLUP POLL. > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136990,00.html > <http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136990,00.html> > > http://www.gallup com/poll/8056/healthcare-system-ratings-us-great-britain-canada.aspx > <http://www.gallup com/poll/8056/healthcare-system-ratings-us-great-britain-canada.aspx> > > > > Roni ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 is breaking the link. This isn't the first time this has happened. Just go to gallup.com and click on healthcare and you will get all the articles on healthcare. The one I posted a link to was about AMerican's not backing the Healthcare reform -- Re: Fw: Re:Rationing hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 11:24 AM Nancie, you're truly living in a dream world. Try putting " problems with UK healthcare system " into Google and read just a few of the first hits. It puts the lie to everything you say about the healthcare system there. There are over 12 million hits. But I know you won't dare; you're not going to look at any evidence that contradicts your opinions. You're going to ignore the vast quantity of data that expresses a different viewpoint that contradicts yours. Here's just one of the 12 million hits: .. .. > > > *UK* Health Care *System* In Need of Repair > > by Carty, MD, MSPH > 01-26-2008 > > > Inadequate facilities, poor quality medical and nursing care in > several British hospitals cause deaths from intestinal infections. > > Imagine that you are seriously, even critically ill. You are in a > dirty, rundown, understaffed hospital. The nurses, doctors, and other > employees are rude, inattentive, and incompetent, and you can’t get > out. What could be more terrifying? > > Such, apparently, was the nightmarish predicament of a number of > patients with serious intestinal infections in a group of British > hospitals between 2004 and 2006. An October 2007 report by the > government’s Commission for *Healthcare* Audit and Inspection has > exposed a number of deficiencies in the UK’s rickety government-run > health care *system*, the National Health Service (NHS). The report > showed that outbreaks of Clostridium difficile (C. diff.) intestinal > infections in several NHS hospitals: Kent Hospital, Sussex Hospital, > and Maidstone Hospital, directly caused at least 90 deaths between > 2004 and 2006 and contributed to many more. C. diff. is a type of > bacterium which can cause serious intestinal infections, often after > the administration of antibiotics. > > The report documented poor quality medical and nursing care and > inadequate infection control measures. Doctors made mistakes in > antibiotic prescribing, fluid and nutrition management, and in many > other aspects of care. > > Nurses frequently did not wash their hands, wear gloves and gowns, > clean mattresses, empty and clean commodes, feed patients, or give > patients their medications. Patients who asked for help in going to > the toilet were often told to “go in the bed,†then left to lie in > their own urine and stool for long periods. Patients and family > members described the care as “despicable,†“sickening,†and “appalling,†> > Drity sink in clean utility room in UK hospital > > A sink in the " clean " utility room > > The NHS hospitals involved were old, dirty, and rundown. Although > patients with C. diff. infection should be put in single rooms to > prevent transmission of the infection to other patients, this was > usually impossible. Only 10% of the hospitals’ beds were in single > rooms. Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows > in large rooms. One hospital had only one sink for every 6 beds, and > the other two hospitals had one sink for every 12 beds. > > > Empty apologies, empty promises. > > The public release of the report was followed by the usual cynical > apologies and promises of reform and “zero tolerance.†In addition to > the C. diff. outbreaks at Kent, Sussex, and Maidstone hospitals, a > similar outbreak at another NHS hospital, Stoke Mandeville Hospital, > caused 33 deaths between 2003 and 2005. > > Beds jammed together in a UK hospital contributed to spread of infection > > Patients were usually put in beds jammed together in long rows in > large rooms > > > *UK* health care *system* needs a makeover. > > How did the *UK* end up with such a dysfunctional health care > *system*? The English are prosperous, intelligent, even brilliant > people. One of my medical school professors, originally from the *UK*, > published the first account of a carotid endarterectomy, the operation > to clean out the arteries in the neck to prevent strokes. He was > famous as a surgeon, professor, and writer and operated on Winston > Churchill and the King of Kuwait. > > > Inadequate funding, poor management. > > Although government mismanagement is without question part of the > problem, the *UK* spends much less on health care than the US. Still, > the British government nationalized the health care *system* in 1948 > and has had over fifty years to work the kinks out of the *system*. > > The British people deserve better. > .. .. That's what you want for us??? .. .. > > Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspirit@... > <mailto:deifspirit@msn com?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3ARationing> > aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > > Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:26 pm (PST) > > > > the numbers are from Think Tanks and from policy centers as in RAND; > UCLA Public Health and from Gerard from Hopkins > Bloomberg School of Public Health. So are you calling Prof. 's > research and data all a lie?? > The numbers are factual. They also only include US Citizens. > I bet if I asked all those AMERICANS that are not insured if they > wanted health insurance, they would scream YES! But, the fact is that > many of them can't get it because they either have a pre-existing > condition or they can't financially afford the premiums because either > they are unemployed; POOR; Underemployed; or their employer can't > afford the premiums or IF they are lucky enough to have medical insurx > in the first place- have huge premiums that keep going up. > Don't put YOUR words into my mouth. I never stated capitalism is wrong > and I agree that health insurance SHOULD be portable. I think if you > can get a better price on insurx in another state then you should be > able to buy it. BUT, the private insurance companies don't allow that. > that is part of the problem. That is what the health care reform would > fix. > > As far as universal healthcare in the UK, Europe, Australia and Canada > goes. You are Incorrect because I have family all over the globe and > they ALL love their universal healthcare! The US already has rationing > and waiting lists. You can NOT tell me that if you wanted to have an > elective surgery tomorrow or even this week that your insurance would > allow you. That only exists with those " Cadillac plans " . All other > medical insurx plans have pre-authorization processes that takes > weeks. I know because I deal with that ALL THE TIME. > My friend Malcolm is a surgeon and everyone of his patients' insurance > companies ALL have a Pre-authorization process that his office has to > work through and unless it is emergency surgery, he can not operate > right away. ERGO, there is a waiting period. > > I don't need to Google UK healthcare, because I know about it first > hand and It was Great! Never got a bill. And ZERO waiting! ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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