high ammonia

October 18, 2011

hi - Im wondering if anyone has experience w high levels of ammonia and can give me some advice. My son was in the hospital last week as neurologist was sure he was having seizures. after he was discharged w a normal MRI and EEG - I went home and looked up some old posts re: ammonia on this board then I did some research online that led me to believe my son had hyperammonemia. Pretty sure I found out just in time as he was having heart issues and all sorts of advanced symptoms which got worse after an iodine loading tests last mo,!

He stopped having "episodes"* (that seemed like passing out in a sleep like state for a few min several times a day) after we got hom from the hospital (probably because he didnt eat for 36 hrs and was off all supplements). we got ammonia lab results back yesterday and the level is at 33. Im assuming that is still very high as the range goes to 35. He is still having severe apnea symptoms (Im sure it is from ammonia from what others have told me) and is scheduled for a sleep study on Fri.

Im just wondering if anyone can tell me if they've experience high ammonia levels and how long it can take to get them down. He started BH4 today. Any other info from those that have experienced it would be really appreciated. Im waiting for the LLMD to call me back but I doubt I will get any info today. In the meantime Im keeping up w detox and not giving supplements other than the BH4, Vit C and Mag and limiting protein and sugar. How concerned should I be about the state of his liver and GB. He is still having quite a bit of tummy pain and possibly GB too as he has been nauseous ever since the episodes stopped occurring. He was having these episodes on and off for many mos and they gradually got a lot worse (started out as more of a brief stupor). Id been told nothing about the issue of ammonia. Im just glad i read and old post here and looked into it some more.

thanks!

October 18, 2011

Hello, has he had the Yasko liver methylation profile or the equivalent? Yasko gives plenty of advice on this situation, and many generous people on this forum will have the info ready to send you in a Klinghardt minute if you ask them. For ammonia, I think I remember activated charcoal caps can "mop up" as she likes to say in toxic emergencies, just be sure it does not bind the gut; also chelated molybdenum; and yucca capsules with every heavy protein meal. Magnessium citrate caps or liquid were mentioned as an emergency backup too to flush the system out, but the liquid, although effective, is fairly drastic for a couple hours. Remember, in the body and outside of it (the most deadly cleaning mistake; it kills people who combine ammonia and bleach or

chorine) ammonia combines with chlorine from pools and treated water, etc. to form chloramines, a deadly chemical that, if memory serves, is the equivalent of mustard gas used in warfare, or something pretty close to it. For safety always use non-chlorine bleach for household use.To: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism Sent: Tue, October 18, 2011 7:19:15 PMSubject: high

ammonia

hi - Im wondering if anyone has experience w high levels of ammonia and can give me some advice. My son was in the hospital last week as neurologist was sure he was having seizures. after he was discharged w a normal MRI and EEG - I went home and looked up some old posts re: ammonia on this board then I did some research online that led me to believe my son had hyperammonemia. Pretty sure I found out just in time as he was having heart issues and all sorts of advanced symptoms which got worse after an iodine loading tests last mo,!

He stopped having "episodes"* (that seemed like passing out in a sleep like state for a few min several times a day) after we got hom from the hospital (probably because he didnt eat for 36 hrs and was off all supplements). we got ammonia lab results back yesterday and the level is at 33. Im assuming that is still very high as the range goes to 35. He is still having severe apnea symptoms (Im sure it is from ammonia from what others have told me) and is scheduled for a sleep study on Fri.

Im just wondering if anyone can tell me if they've experience high ammonia levels and how long it can take to get them down. He started BH4 today. Any other info from those that have experienced it would be really appreciated. Im waiting for the LLMD to call me back but I doubt I will get any info today. In the meantime Im keeping up w detox and not giving supplements other than the BH4, Vit C and Mag and limiting protein and sugar. How concerned should I be about the state of his liver and GB. He is still having quite a bit of tummy pain and possibly GB too as he has been nauseous ever since the episodes stopped occurring. He was having these episodes on and off for many mos and they gradually got a lot worse (started out as more of a brief stupor). Id been told nothing about the issue of ammonia. Im just glad i read and old post here and looked into it some more.

thanks!

October 19, 2011

Hi

Apparently having an alkaline diet is important in reducing ammonia levels.

There's an article about it here

http://www.the-aps.org/publications/tphys/legacy/1984/issue2/95.pdf

>

> Hello, has he had the Yasko liver methylation profile or the equivalent?

Yasko

> gives plenty of advice on this situation, and many generous people on this

forum

> will have the info ready to send you in a Klinghardt minute if you ask them.

> For ammonia, I think I remember activated charcoal caps can " mop up " as she

> likes to say in toxic emergencies, just be sure it does not bind the gut; also

> chelated molybdenum; and yucca capsules with every heavy protein meal.

> Magnessium citrate caps or liquid were mentioned as an emergency backup too to

> flush the system out, but the liquid, although effective, is fairly drastic

for

> a couple hours. Remember, in the body and outside of it (the most

deadly

> cleaning mistake; it kills people who combine ammonia and bleach or chorine)

> ammonia combines with chlorine from pools and treated water, etc. to form

> chloramines, a deadly chemical that, if memory serves, is the equivalent of

> mustard gas used in warfare, or something pretty close to it. For safety

> always use non-chlorine bleach for household use.

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism

> Sent: Tue, October 18, 2011 7:19:15 PM

> Subject: high ammonia

>

> hi - Im wondering if anyone has experience w high levels of ammonia and can

give

> me some advice. My son was in the hospital last week as neurologist was sure

he

> was having seizures. after he was discharged w a normal MRI and EEG - I went

> home and looked up some old posts re: ammonia on this board then I did some

> research online that led me to believe my son had hyperammonemia. Pretty sure

I

> found out just in time as he was having heart issues and all sorts of advanced

> symptoms which got worse after an iodine loading tests last mo,!

>

> He stopped having " episodes " * (that seemed like passing out in a sleep like

> state for a few min several times a day) after we got hom from the hospital

> (probably because he didnt eat for 36 hrs and was off all supplements). we

got

> ammonia lab results back yesterday and the level is at 33. Im assuming that is

> still very high as the range goes to 35. He is still having severe apnea

> symptoms (Im sure it is from ammonia from what others have told me) and is

> scheduled for a sleep study on Fri.

>

> Im just wondering if anyone can tell me if they've experience high ammonia

> levels and how long it can take to get them down. He started BH4 today. Any

> other info from those that have experienced it would be really appreciated.

Im

> waiting for the LLMD to call me back but I doubt I will get any info today. In

> the meantime Im keeping up w detox and not giving supplements other than the

> BH4, Vit C and Mag and limiting protein and sugar. How concerned should I be

> about the state of his liver and GB. He is still having quite a bit of tummy

> pain and possibly GB too as he has been nauseous ever since the episodes

stopped

> occurring. He was having these episodes on and off for many mos and they

> gradually got a lot worse (started out as more of a brief stupor). Id been

told

> nothing about the issue of ammonia. Im just glad i read and old post here and

> looked into it some more.

> thanks!

>

October 19, 2011

Thanks Jeanette. We need to get that test done but havent!

Appreaciate the tips. Now I know why he got worse swimming over the summer -yikes! scary noone warned me about this potential situation... He dosent do well w Charcoal or chlorella (liver and GB issues like I have) so that is probably why it happened as I stopped giving them to him. I had told practicioners this however,., Will see if I can find yucca capsules! Going to get glutamine too!

never use bleach or common household chems as we are all senstive here. However bath water has chorine as we dont have a filter like we do for shower - been meaning to get one!

thanks very much

To: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism Sent: Tue, October 18, 2011 9:39:58 PMSubject: Re: high ammonia

Hello, has he had the Yasko liver methylation profile or the equivalent? Yasko gives plenty of advice on this situation, and many generous people on this forum will have the info ready to send you in a Klinghardt minute if you ask them. For ammonia, I think I remember activated charcoal caps can "mop up" as she likes to say in toxic emergencies, just be sure it does not bind the gut; also chelated molybdenum; and yucca capsules with every heavy protein meal. Magnessium citrate caps or liquid were mentioned as an emergency backup too to flush the system out, but the liquid, although effective, is fairly drastic for a couple hours. Remember, in the body and outside of it (the most deadly cleaning mistake; it kills people who combine ammonia and bleach or chorine) ammonia combines with chlorine from pools and treated water, etc. to form chloramines, a deadly chemical that, if memory serves, is the

equivalent of mustard gas used in warfare, or something pretty close to it. For safety always use non-chlorine bleach for household use.

To: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism Sent: Tue, October 18, 2011 7:19:15 PMSubject: high ammonia

hi - Im wondering if anyone has experience w high levels of ammonia and can give me some advice. My son was in the hospital last week as neurologist was sure he was having seizures. after he was discharged w a normal MRI and EEG - I went home and looked up some old posts re: ammonia on this board then I did some research online that led me to believe my son had hyperammonemia. Pretty sure I found out just in time as he was having heart issues and all sorts of advanced symptoms which got worse after an iodine loading tests last mo,!

He stopped having "episodes"* (that seemed like passing out in a sleep like state for a few min several times a day) after we got hom from the hospital (probably because he didnt eat for 36 hrs and was off all supplements). we got ammonia lab results back yesterday and the level is at 33. Im assuming that is still very high as the range goes to 35. He is still having severe apnea symptoms (Im sure it is from ammonia from what others have told me) and is scheduled for a sleep study on Fri.

Im just wondering if anyone can tell me if they've experience high ammonia levels and how long it can take to get them down. He started BH4 today. Any other info from those that have experienced it would be really appreciated. Im waiting for the LLMD to call me back but I doubt I will get any info today. In the meantime Im keeping up w detox and not giving supplements other than the BH4, Vit C and Mag and limiting protein and sugar. How concerned should I be about the state of his liver and GB. He is still having quite a bit of tummy pain and possibly GB too as he has been nauseous ever since the episodes stopped occurring. He was having these episodes on and off for many mos and they gradually got a lot worse (started out as more of a brief stupor). Id been told nothing about the issue of ammonia. Im just glad i read and old post here and looked into it some more.

thanks!

October 20, 2011

It sounds like your son could have a genetic mutation on the CBS enzyme.

Yasko's methylation panel tests for this. If so, you need to watch out for a

few things to keep the ammonia under control:

--protein meals can push on that CBS enzyme resulting in ammonia production.

This is not to say you should avoid meat protein but just be aware of it and be

ready to supplement with things to " mop up " the extra ammonia. More on those

later.

--methylators also put pressure on the CBS enzyme. So if you supplement with B

vitamins, SAMe, folate or folinic acid, glycine, etc. be ready with supplements

that will clean up the ammonia (and sulfur) that is created by the broken

enzyme. Also, anytime you increase these, be ready to increase the supplements

needed to mop up.

--another consequence of having a CBS mutation is excess sulfate production so

avoid supplements that are sulfur donors (like MSM, Epsom salt baths, NAC,

etc.).

--have on hand to mop up excess ammonia: magnesium citrate capsules and

activated charcoal; possibly yucca. The yucca is sprinkled on high protein

foods and helps break down the protein, I believe. The mag citrate and charcoal

is used for flushes once or twice per week. You would give 1-2 capsules of

charcoal, depending on your son's body weight, wait 20 minutes then give him 1-3

capsules of mag citrate. I would usually do this in the evening, close to

bedtime. Make sure you do this 1 hour before or 2 hours after any meals or

other supplements. I suppose you could also do just the charcoal followed 20

minutes later by an enema.

--have on hand for excess sulfate (look for dark circles and sunken eyes as a

sign): molybdenum. Molybdenum helps the body detox excess sulfate. We use both

the mini minerals Molybdenum from World Health Mall and a product called Mo-Zyme

by Biotics Research Corporation.

--finally, Amy Yasko has a product called RNA Ammonia (or CBS+ RNA) drops. It

is quite pricey at $85 per little bottle but so far we have not found anything

else to help control the ammonia as well as this stuff. You can order it at

www.holisticheal.com . However, given the cost, I would try the other measures

first and see if those are enough.

--one last thing. The supplement curcumin seems to have the effect of " closing

the gate " on the CBS enzyme, slowing it's activity and, thereby, it's production

of ammonia and sulfate. If your child can tolerate this supplement (some kids

cannot--depends on whether or not they have another mutation in their COMT

enzyme), he should take it regularly (we take it twice per day). If you end up

using the RNA Ammonia drops, then those should be given about 20 minutes after

your child has taken the curcumin.

Hope this helps.

Suzanne

Woodland Hills, CA

" We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we

created them. " --Albert Einstein

Sent from my iPad

October 21, 2011

This is great info. Thanks so much Suzanne!

We have trouble 'mopping up' here as we both seem to have Liver, GB and kidney issues when using , charcoal, chlorella or clay. In fact I gave my son a 1/4 capsule of clay yesterday and he had terrible back (Im assuming kidney) pain all morn ! Maybe the charcoal w the mag citrate would work if we did it on weekends. Will try it !

Also- if anyone can give me refs for some homeopathics that might work I would really appreciate. All we currently have are the Unda drops.

Im definately going to have him do the Yasko Mehthylation test very soon.

thanks again!

To: "BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism " <BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism >Sent: Thu, October 20, 2011 9:35:24 AMSubject: Re: high ammonia

It sounds like your son could have a genetic mutation on the CBS enzyme. Yasko's methylation panel tests for this. If so, you need to watch out for a few things to keep the ammonia under control:--protein meals can push on that CBS enzyme resulting in ammonia production. This is not to say you should avoid meat protein but just be aware of it and be ready to supplement with things to "mop up" the extra ammonia. More on those later.--methylators also put pressure on the CBS enzyme. So if you supplement with B vitamins, SAMe, folate or folinic acid, glycine, etc. be ready with supplements that will clean up the ammonia (and sulfur) that is created by the broken enzyme. Also, anytime you increase these, be ready to increase the supplements needed to mop up.--another consequence of having a CBS mutation is excess sulfate production so avoid supplements that are sulfur donors (like MSM, Epsom salt baths, NAC, etc.).--have on

hand to mop up excess ammonia: magnesium citrate capsules and activated charcoal; possibly yucca. The yucca is sprinkled on high protein foods and helps break down the protein, I believe. The mag citrate and charcoal is used for flushes once or twice per week. You would give 1-2 capsules of charcoal, depending on your son's body weight, wait 20 minutes then give him 1-3 capsules of mag citrate. I would usually do this in the evening, close to bedtime. Make sure you do this 1 hour before or 2 hours after any meals or other supplements. I suppose you could also do just the charcoal followed 20 minutes later by an enema.--have on hand for excess sulfate (look for dark circles and sunken eyes as a sign): molybdenum. Molybdenum helps the body detox excess sulfate. We use both the mini minerals Molybdenum from World Health Mall and a product called Mo-Zyme by Biotics Research Corporation.--finally, Amy Yasko has a product called RNA Ammonia

(or CBS+ RNA) drops. It is quite pricey at $85 per little bottle but so far we have not found anything else to help control the ammonia as well as this stuff. You can order it at www.holisticheal.com . However, given the cost, I would try the other measures first and see if those are enough.--one last thing. The supplement curcumin seems to have the effect of "closing the gate" on the CBS enzyme, slowing it's activity and, thereby, it's production of ammonia and sulfate. If your child can tolerate this supplement (some kids cannot--depends on whether or not they have another mutation in their COMT enzyme), he should take it regularly (we take it twice per day). If you end up using the RNA Ammonia drops, then those should be given about 20 minutes after your child has taken the curcumin. Hope this helps.SuzanneWoodland Hills, CA"We can't solve problems by using

the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." --Albert Einstein Sent from my iPad

October 22, 2011

For kidney support, we use Kidney 2 drops by HaHG. For liver support, we use

Unda 243 and Liverlife. You can also look into San Pharm brand and Pleo brand

supplements.

Suzanne

" We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we

created them. " --Albert Einstein

Sent from my iPad

November 6, 2011

http://healthyreferral.com/2010/09/the-alkaline-brain-lyme-borrelia-induced-hype\

r-ammonemia/

This article by Jernigan says the alkaline diet idea is completely wrong

and that part of the problem is being too alkaline.

Lots of interesting info here.

VH

>

> hi - Im wondering if anyone has experience w high levels of ammonia and can

give

> me some advice. My son was in the hospital last week as neurologist was sure

he

> was having seizures. after he was discharged w a normal MRI and EEG - I went

> home and looked up some old posts re: ammonia on this board then I did some

> research online that led me to believe my son had hyperammonemia. Pretty sure

I

> found out just in time as he was having heart issues and all sorts of advanced

> symptoms which got worse after an iodine loading tests last mo,!

>

> He stopped having " episodes " * (that seemed like passing out in a sleep like

> state for a few min several times a day) after we got hom from the hospital

> (probably because he didnt eat for 36 hrs and was off all supplements). we

got

> ammonia lab results back yesterday and the level is at 33. Im assuming that is

> still very high as the range goes to 35. He is still having severe apnea

> symptoms (Im sure it is from ammonia from what others have told me) and is

> scheduled for a sleep study on Fri.

>

> Im just wondering if anyone can tell me if they've experience high ammonia

> levels and how long it can take to get them down. He started BH4 today. Any

> other info from those that have experienced it would be really appreciated.

Im

> waiting for the LLMD to call me back but I doubt I will get any info today. In

> the meantime Im keeping up w detox and not giving supplements other than the

> BH4, Vit C and Mag and limiting protein and sugar. How concerned should I be

> about the state of his liver and GB. He is still having quite a bit of tummy

> pain and possibly GB too as he has been nauseous ever since the episodes

stopped

> occurring. He was having these episodes on and off for many mos and they

> gradually got a lot worse (started out as more of a brief stupor). Id been

told

> nothing about the issue of ammonia. Im just glad i read and old post here and

> looked into it some more.

> thanks!

>

November 6, 2011

Dr B always said to us that high ammonia is an indication of mitochondrial disorder. Keena

http://healthyreferral.com/2010/09/the-alkaline-brain-lyme-borrelia-induced-hyper-ammonemia/

This article by Jernigan says the alkaline diet idea is completely wrong and that part of the problem is being too alkaline.

Lots of interesting info here.

VH

>

> hi - Im wondering if anyone has experience w high levels of ammonia and can give

> me some advice. My son was in the hospital last week as neurologist was sure he

> was having seizures. after he was discharged w a normal MRI and EEG - I went

> home and looked up some old posts re: ammonia on this board then I did some

> research online that led me to believe my son had hyperammonemia. Pretty sure I

> found out just in time as he was having heart issues and all sorts of advanced

> symptoms which got worse after an iodine loading tests last mo,!

>

> He stopped having "episodes"* (that seemed like passing out in a sleep like

> state for a few min several times a day) after we got hom from the hospital

> (probably because he didnt eat for 36 hrs and was off all supplements). we got

> ammonia lab results back yesterday and the level is at 33. Im assuming that is

> still very high as the range goes to 35. He is still having severe apnea

> symptoms (Im sure it is from ammonia from what others have told me) and is

> scheduled for a sleep study on Fri.

>

> Im just wondering if anyone can tell me if they've experience high ammonia

> levels and how long it can take to get them down. He started BH4 today. Any

> other info from those that have experienced it would be really appreciated. Im

> waiting for the LLMD to call me back but I doubt I will get any info today. In

> the meantime Im keeping up w detox and not giving supplements other than the

> BH4, Vit C and Mag and limiting protein and sugar. How concerned should I be

> about the state of his liver and GB. He is still having quite a bit of tummy

> pain and possibly GB too as he has been nauseous ever since the episodes stopped

> occurring. He was having these episodes on and off for many mos and they

> gradually got a lot worse (started out as more of a brief stupor). Id been told

> nothing about the issue of ammonia. Im just glad i read and old post here and

> looked into it some more.

> thanks!

>

November 6, 2011

Hello where do you get BH4 my son had recomendation on ONE PROFILE test but i cant find it is it with RX?Thanks RalitsaTo: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism Sent: Sunday, 6 November 2011, 10:41:03Subject: Re: high ammonia