Re: Looking for anti-viral aid

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the warning. I have to say that I am terribly

disappointed as I saw this as a way of removing the heavy pathogen

load I seem to be carrying to jump-start my recovery.

I understand that I will not be well or in remission until my immune

system increases functionality but I was really hoping this treatment

would give me a boost. I was aware of the oxidative stress but saw

this as sort of a chemotherapy-type treatment.

Thanks again - I am so ready for some relief that I don't always

measure the risk.

Blessings,

Marti

> >

> > Hi there,

> > I know about several different anti-viral protocols but curious

if

> > there are new ones since I was on the list years ago. I have

tried

> > Coconut oil, Olive Leaf, Apple Cider Vinegar, Elderberry, Olive

Oil

> > with Lemon, Garlic with some success but was curious if there

was

> > anything new in this arena. Needing something very powerful.

> >

> > Currently on acyclovir and it helps as long as I have no physical

> > issues. As soon as I don't sleep well, the viral symptoms

return.

> > Doc & I have continued to up the dose - currently at 1600mg per

day.

> >

> > CURIOUS: Has anyone tried Hydrogen peroxide in any form such as

> > IV's. or otherwise for control or elimination of any type of

> > pathogens including viruses?

> >

> > Living north of Houston very near to sea level - still sick.

> >

> > Thanks everyone,

> > Marti Z.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

No, I have not tried any of the items mentioned thus far. I am

really out of it. I try to stay with herbals but I somehow missed

the Lemon Balm.

I have heard of amantadine but no luteolin.

Definitely have a lot of research to do.

Marti

> >

> > Hi there,

> > I know about several different anti-viral protocols but curious if

> > there are new ones since I was on the list years ago. I have tried

> > Coconut oil, Olive Leaf, Apple Cider Vinegar, Elderberry, Olive

Oil

> > with Lemon, Garlic with some success but was curious if there was

> > anything new in this arena. Needing something very powerful.

> >

> > Currently on acyclovir and it helps as long as I have no physical

> > issues. As soon as I don't sleep well, the viral symptoms return.

> > Doc & I have continued to up the dose - currently at 1600mg per

day.

> >

> > CURIOUS: Has anyone tried Hydrogen peroxide in any form such as

> > IV's. or otherwise for control or elimination of any type of

> > pathogens including viruses?

> >

> > ALSO: Are there any Dr. Salvato patients on the list?

> >

> > I would like to get referred to a more knowledgeable CFIDS Doc who

> > will be open to helping me with the Yasko protocol and

documentation

> > for disability.

> >

> > Living north of Houston very near to sea level - still sick.

> >

> > Thanks everyone,

> > Marti Z.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> ***Yes. New at the table is nondenatured whey in the form of

products like RenewPro and The True Whey, not to be confused with the

inferior undnatured whey tried in PWCs since the late 90s with Dr

Cheney.

>

>

The only whey product I have tried was ImmunePro (can't remember if

it is nondenatured or undenatured). I never tried the formulas you

mentioned such as Immunocal. I have not heard of the two you mention

so I will do research.

I was never able to take more than 1/8 tsp every other day. Very

powerful stuff (ImmunePro). It seemed to detox me too quickly. I

had my amalgams removed but hadn't started my chelation treatment.

Also, had not started glutathione injections so my detox pathways

were probably still blocked.

> ***Nondenatured whey tops by far in effectiveness the drugs

valtrex, acyclovir, gancyclovir and others. From personal

experience, it as well tops Ampligen in keeping fluish symptoms down

and RnaseL levels normalized.

>

>

>

> ***Also, a product called Lipoceutical Glutathione(LG) was tried

against HHV6 by the HHV6 Foundation connected to Dr Ablashi who

discovered this virus and LG was effective at killing HHV6 better

than 70 agents they had tested including very potent but very toxic,

Famvir.

I will definitely look into this.

>

> ***Hydrogen peroxide therapy turns out is really quite a horrible

choice if you have CFS. Low glutathione often found in CFS causes a

rise of hydrogen peroxide in our bodies and this in turn actually

causes problems with our thyroid function and probably other problems

as well.

>

>

>

> ***Better to treat the underlying root problem that leads to low

glutathione and strengthen your immunity to kill or suppress

pathogens from that stand point.

>

Very disappointing. Thanks for the warning. I was hanging lots of

hope on this treatment.

>

>

>

> ***

>

[Guest guest]

EBV, CMV, HHV6a, Herpes 1, 2, Zoster all positive.

I tried OLE but definitely not long enough. I will research the

others you mentioned.

Thanks for the help,

Marti

>

> Marti

>

> You do not mention which viruses you are dealing with.

>

> McCandless, MD, has good success with autistic children

dealing

> with their viral issues using Olive Leaf Extract (a particular

brand) and

> Virastop and Luaricidin and a couple of others.

>

> I was successful in bringing EB and CMV under control with

> officinalis tincture.

>

> Lots of time people on natural things do not have the right type,

the

> correct dose and/or take it long enough.

>

> mjh

> " The Basil Book "

> _http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_

(http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

>

>

> Posted by: " marti_zavala " _marti_zavala@... _

> (mailto:marti_zavala@...?Subject=Re: Looking%20for%20anti-viral%

20aid) _marti_zavala _

> (marti_zavala)

> Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:43 pm (PST)

> Hi there,

> I know about several different anti-viral protocols but curious if

> there are new ones since I was on the list years ago. I have tried

> Coconut oil, Olive Leaf, Apple Cider Vinegar, Elderberry, Olive

Oil

> with Lemon, Garlic with some success but was curious if there was

> anything new in this arena. Needing something very powerful.

>

> Currently on acyclovir and it helps as long as I have no physical

> issues. As soon as I don't sleep well, the viral symptoms return.

> Doc & I have continued to up the dose - currently at 1600mg per

day.

>

> CURIOUS: Has anyone tried Hydrogen peroxide in any form such as

> IV's. or otherwise for control or elimination of any type of

> pathogens including viruses?

>

> ALSO: Are there any Dr. Salvato patients on the list?

>

> I would like to get referred to a more knowledgeable CFIDS Doc who

> will be open to helping me with the Yasko protocol and

documentation

> for disability.

>

> Living north of Houston very near to sea level - still sick.

>

> Thanks everyone,

> Marti Z.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

MIxing whey:

I have a rather small french whisk that really does the job without any heat

buildup.

Adrienne

Re: Looking for anti-viral aid

Hi, Katrina.

" kattemayo " <kattemayo@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Hi ,

>

> I am very confused as to why you keep posting statements like this:

>

> >>>>not to be confused with the inferior undnatured whey tried in PWCs since

the late 90s with Dr Cheney.<<<<<

>

> Dr. Cheney began trials of Immunopro in 1999 and has been using it ever

since.

***This is probably the problem. Dr Cheney was actually using ImmuneCal in

1999 too, based on its wide promotion for AIDS patients in the 1990's, and he

even recommended it to me in 2002 as the best glutathione building option

available. But ImmuneCal it turns out, and this is why it failed with me then,

is undenatured whey rather than the more effective nondenatured whey products

like RenewPro, ImmunePro and The True Whey to build glutathione in non-sulfur

sensitive PWCs.

It was from his articles that I learned about Glutathione, which he had been

studying/treating for several years, and because of his trials of Immunopro that

I began using it in 1999.

>

> He first tried Immunoplex? and Immunocal, with mixed results. When he heard

of Immunopro (I think it was brand new) and communicated with it's creator, he

began trials with it.

***Well, actually he recommened ImmuneCal as the best for quite a while for

PWCs. He's never made the distinction that Rich has that the cystine basis of

ImmuneCal renders it problematic for PWCs to building glutathione vs the

cysteine basis of ImmunePro, etc. to more readily help us make it.

***This missing biochemical detail in his understanding of these products may

be why he is behind the times now in not recognizing glutathione depletion's

critical role in the diastolic heart dysfunction in PWCs. The glutathione

building measures he pioneered for the PWC community that failed early on, like

ImmuneCal and ImmunePro also for too limited a trial time frame in PWC use I

think, may have also lead him to erroneously believe now that glutathione is not

connected to the energy deficit in our cells he acknowledges is central to the

heart problem.

***This seems an odd conclusion on his part given the known science about

glutathione being essential to energy production within the cell, never mind

Rich's overall hypothesis for CFS for a second.

> We were able to follow his and patients' results on this and other lists,

because they were kind enough to report weekly, if not daily on all 3 products.

>

> This gave us a chance to fully evaluate it and see the exact results and

dosing of others, before making a decision about using it.

***ImmuneCal was the first one studied by him though, in which my post was

illuding. Since 1994, I've followed this conversation on the web and off as well

as with the doc himself in 2002 & 2003 just before his heart transplant.

> AS you know, RenewPro is made by the same company...WellWisdom. I think it

is the same ?, except that is is naturally sweetened, easier to mix, and less

expensive (don't know why).

***Yes, that's correct.

>

> WHen I saw Dr. Cheney in April 05, he did tell me to continue on ImmunoPro,

which I have.

***Good.

> I'll post an article from WellWisdom's website that's taken from an

interview with Dr. Cheney right before he began ImmunoPro trials.

>

> Some of the 1st patients' reports on IP are in this lists' archives from

1999.

>

> I think Dr. Cheney's articles on Glutathione and the 3 trials are on the DFW

website.

***Yes, I saw one posted at DFW in 2002 and earlier, which talked about

ImmuneCal as the primary one he had studied with mixed results.

Since there are always new people to the scene, it certainly is brand new to

them, and RenewPro is a new addition.

I would be interested if anyone who's been on ImmunoPro for a long period and

switched to RenewPro has seen any difference.

***I've heard a report from one saying they feel RenewPro is better absorbed

in their gut but from a technical standpoint they are essentially the same, the

RenewPro having more user-friendly features being the only real difference.

Also, better to get a quantitative measure, a test of some sort, for how one's

glutathione status is doing in the first year or two over relying on how one

feels given improved feeling may not happen early on or may not happen until

heavy metals have been successfully chelated, which glutathione cannot do.

I don't have any problem with IP taste, or mixing, once I figured it out.

>

> I use a small plastic mixer that I purchased at Walgreen's for about $4.

Before that, I mixed it in a jar, but was not always strong enough to do it.

***Be careful with mixing it with a motor based mixer, if that's what you're

doing, as it could ruin its potency.

> I'm also taking Lipoceutical Glutathione, which I think I first heard about

from you, which sounded very exciting. It was prescribed to me by Dr. Cheney in

April 06.

***Good. Did he recommend any effective chelation therapies as well to follow

successful glutathione repletion?

> BW,

> Katrina

***

[Guest guest]

DAvid,

Thanks, but if it is not heated at all, how is it turned from a liquid into a

powder? That sounds like an awful lot of evaporation.

Adrienne

----- Original Message -----

From: davidhall2020

Hi, Adrienne.

" Adrienne G. " <duckblossm@...> wrote:

>

> DAvid, do you happen to know the difference in processing between

Non-denatured and Un denatured?

> Thanks,

> Adrienne

***Yes. Nondenatured whey products like RenewPro DO NOT go through a process

of heating which is oxidizing and render disulfide bonding between cysteine

molecules, producing cystine.

***Denatured or undenatured mean this heating process has occurred and cystine

rather than cysteine is in the product. So, a PWC already suffering oxidative

stress and lowered ATP production needs to use some of the little ATP they have

in order to deal with the oxidized molecule, cystine, and break it down to two

cysteine molecules, the rate limiting ingredient for producing glutathione, if

they use one of these inferior products for this purpose.

***That's a lot of work and may not work so barring sulfur sensitivity,

NONdenature wheys rather than these other types is a superior treatment choice

for PWCs.

***

> From: davidhall2020

***...nondenatured whey in the form of products like RenewPro and The True

Whey, not to be confused with the inferior undnatured whey tried in PWCs since

the late 90s with Dr Cheney.

***Nondenatured whey tops by far in effectiveness the drugs valtrex,

acyclovir, gancyclovir and others. From personal experience, it as well tops

Ampligen in keeping fluish symptoms down and RnaseL levels normalized.

[Guest guest]

Marti

When you search these archives you will find that I have many times written

about my use of officinalis tincture (lemon balm) to bring very high

titres of Epstein-Barr and Cytomegalovirus down. I was not tested for other

members of the Herpes family and could not afford the $425.00/month cost of

the pharmaceutical prescribed.

The antiviral aspect of lemon balm is only found in FRESH or tinctures made

from the fresh herb. The bottles must state that. I make my own after

starting with commercially available tinctures.

mjh

" The Basil Book "

_http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

_Re: Looking for anti-viral aid _

(/message/105508;_ylc=X3oDMTJxODl\

hMWRpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkxNTc0BGdyc

HNwSWQDMTYwMDA2MTY0NQRtc2dJZAMxMDU1MDgEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE1NjU

4MTM5OQ--)

Posted by: " marti_zavala " _marti_zavala@... _

(mailto:marti_zavala@...?Subject= Re:%20Looking%20for%20anti-viral%20aid)

_marti_zavala _

(marti_zavala)

Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:11 pm (PST)

No, I have not tried any of the items mentioned thus far. I am

really out of it. I try to stay with herbals but I somehow missed

the Lemon Balm.

I have heard of amantadine but no luteolin.

Definitely have a lot of research to do.

Marti

[Guest guest]

Hi, Adrienne.

" Adrienne G. " <duckblossm@...> wrote:

>

> DAvid,

> Thanks, but if it is not heated at all, how is it turned from a liquid into a

powder? That sounds like an awful lot of evaporation.

> Adrienne

***Probably a lot of careful low temp managed evaporation indeed. I don't know

the exact process but given the guy who makes RenewPro for instance is a PhD

scientist specializing in nondenatured wheys, I'm sure he's figured out at what

temperature specifically below which he can dry the stuff without producing an

oxidized whey.

***His product certainly proves him right.

***

> From: davidhall2020

>

" Adrienne G. " <duckblossm@> wrote:

> >

> > DAvid, do you happen to know the difference in processing between

Non-denatured and Un denatured?

> > Thanks,

> > Adrienne

>

> ***Yes. Nondenatured whey products like RenewPro DO NOT go through a process

of heating which is oxidizing and render disulfide bonding between cysteine

molecules, producing cystine.

>

> ***Denatured or undenatured mean this heating process has occurred and

cystine rather than cysteine is in the product.

[Guest guest]

Blueberries are good - chelation helps a great deal as does

removing yourself from the electrosmog! Also increasing

your Natural Killer Cell count should help since natural

killer cells attack virally infected cells.

paul

--- foxhillers@... wrote:

> Marti

>

> When you search these archives you will find that I have

> many times written

> about my use of officinalis tincture (lemon balm)

> to bring very high

> titres of Epstein-Barr and Cytomegalovirus down. I was

> not tested for other

> members of the Herpes family and could not afford the

> $425.00/month cost of

> the pharmaceutical prescribed.

>

> The antiviral aspect of lemon balm is only found in FRESH

> or tinctures made

> from the fresh herb. The bottles must state that. I

> make my own after

> starting with commercially available tinctures.

>

> mjh

> " The Basil Book "

> _http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_

> (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

>

>

> _Re: Looking for anti-viral aid _

>

(/message/105508;_ylc=X3oDMTJxODl\

hMWRpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkxNTc0BGdyc

>

HNwSWQDMTYwMDA2MTY0NQRtc2dJZAMxMDU1MDgEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE1NjU

> 4MTM5OQ--)

> Posted by: " marti_zavala " _marti_zavala@... _

> (mailto:marti_zavala@...?Subject=

> Re:%20Looking%20for%20anti-viral%20aid) _marti_zavala _

>

> (marti_zavala)

> Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:11 pm (PST)

> No, I have not tried any of the items mentioned thus

> far. I am

> really out of it. I try to stay with herbals but I

> somehow missed

> the Lemon Balm.

>

> I have heard of amantadine but no luteolin.

>

> Definitely have a lot of research to do.

>

> Marti

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Chinese wolfberreis are MUCH better , they also have the highest antioxidant

capacity of

all known fruits. I think you should research them .

>

> > Marti

> >

> > When you search these archives you will find that I have

> > many times written

> > about my use of officinalis tincture (lemon balm)

> > to bring very high

> > titres of Epstein-Barr and Cytomegalovirus down. I was

> > not tested for other

> > members of the Herpes family and could not afford the

> > $425.00/month cost of

> > the pharmaceutical prescribed.

> >

> > The antiviral aspect of lemon balm is only found in FRESH

> > or tinctures made

> > from the fresh herb. The bottles must state that. I

> > make my own after

> > starting with commercially available tinctures.

[Guest guest]

Hi, .

Selenium might be worth a try for sackie, based on Prof. Harry

's theory. The Institute of Medicine recommends an upper limit

of 400 micrograms per day for adults.

Rich

>

> Still looking for evidence that anything is effective against

> sackie and enteroviruses.

>

[Guest guest]

Are wolfberries the same as goji berries? My acupuncturist just gave

me some. Quite tasty.

Helen

> >

> > Blueberries are good - chelation helps a great deal as does

> > removing yourself from the electrosmog! Also increasing

> > your Natural Killer Cell count should help since natural

> > killer cells attack virally infected cells.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

So, DAvid;

It is not totally not heated. It is heated to some low temp. This is as I

imagined. Thank you for the clarification.

Adrienne

Re: Looking for anti-viral aid

Hi, Adrienne.

" Adrienne G. " <duckblossm@...> wrote:

>

> DAvid,

> Thanks, but if it is not heated at all, how is it turned from a liquid into

a powder? That sounds like an awful lot of evaporation.

> Adrienne

***Probably a lot of careful low temp managed evaporation indeed. I don't know

the exact process but given the guy who makes RenewPro for instance is a PhD

scientist specializing in nondenatured wheys, I'm sure he's figured out at what

temperature specifically below which he can dry the stuff without producing an

oxidized whey.

***His product certainly proves him right.

***

> From: davidhall2020

>

" Adrienne G. " <duckblossm@> wrote:

> >

> > DAvid, do you happen to know the difference in processing between

Non-denatured and Un denatured?

> > Thanks,

> > Adrienne

>

> ***Yes. Nondenatured whey products like RenewPro DO NOT go through a process

of heating which is oxidizing and render disulfide bonding between cysteine

molecules, producing cystine.

>

> ***Denatured or undenatured mean this heating process has occurred and

cystine rather than cysteine is in the product.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Adrienne.

There is also a process known as freeze-drying. This involves

freezing the substance and then putting it under a vacuum, so that

the water sublimes. I don't know if this process is used for this

product, but you don't have to heat to get rid of water if you use a

vacuum.

Rich

> > >

> > > DAvid, do you happen to know the difference in processing

between Non-denatured and Un denatured?

> > > Thanks,

> > > Adrienne

> >

> > ***Yes. Nondenatured whey products like RenewPro DO NOT go

through a process of heating which is oxidizing and render disulfide

bonding between cysteine molecules, producing cystine.

> >

> > ***Denatured or undenatured mean this heating process has

occurred and cystine rather than cysteine is in the product.

>

>

>

>

>

>