Re: fruits are not good for kids or anyone

[Guest guest]

Hi Bee,

Not to be contrary, but I've read many of Mercola's articles about

fructose and fruit. My take on what he is saying is that fructose

is bad, not whole fruit. In fact he recommends certain fruits in

his articles, particularly berries. I think you are possibly

throwing out the baby with the bathwater here. I agree that fruit

juices are of no value, but many people can tolerate fruit,

particularly children who can handle carbs better than adults. It

doesn't make sense that the best tasting natural food out there is

terrible for your health. Some of the healthiest cultures that

Weston Price visited were in tropical areas and they ate fruit. It

was the people growning grains who were less healthy. I truly

respect your opinions, but I have to disagree on this one. I do

agree, however, that fruit is not good for candida sufferers.

Jan

>

> Hi, the very worst thing for kids is fruit and fruit juices -

please

> see these articles:

>

> Fructose is No Answer For a SweetenerLearn how the so-called " safe

> sweetener " is anything but that, as new evidence shows many

dangers

> from excessive Fructose ingestion.

> www.mercola.com/2002/jan/5/fructose.htm - Similar pages

>

> Fructose Raises Triglyceride Levels 1/14/01Free twice-weekly

natural

> health newsletter of top medical news on subjects including

splenda,

> soy, sucralose, statins, insulin, aspartame, prevention and ...

> www.mercola.com/2001/jan/14/fructose.htm - Similar pages

>

> More Problems With Fructose 3/26/03Fructose is commonly used in

> health food products, but some scientists say it may lead to

negative

> health consequences. While small amounts of fructose in ...

> www.mercola.com/2003/mar/26/fructose.htm - Similar pages

>

> How Fructose, Insulin and Syndrome X Can Change Your Lifeeating

plan

> however, can make all difference in avoiding it.

> www.mercola.com/2001/dec/12/syndrome_x.htm - Similar pages

>

> Fructose is Not an Acceptable Sugar 11/13/02Fructose is commonly

used

> in health food products. While small amounts in fruits are fine

for

> most people, when it is processed and consumed in large ...

> www.mercola.com/2002/nov/13/fructose.htm - Similar pages

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Jan,

One fruit per day with plenty of " good " fats to slow the release of

fructose into the bloodstream is okay for healthy people. The value of

any fruits is way over-rated when you can get more nutrients like

vitamin C from broccoli or peppers.

Bee

>

> Hi Bee,

>

> Not to be contrary, but I've read many of Mercola's articles about

> fructose and fruit. My take on what he is saying is that fructose

> is bad, not whole fruit. In fact he recommends certain fruits in

> his articles, particularly berries. I think you are possibly

> throwing out the baby with the bathwater here.

[Guest guest]

Hi Bee,

What is your source for the one fruit per day limit, with plenty of

fats? This was all I could find on Mercola, and he doesn't really

mention a universal quantity restriction, he just talks about eating

according to your metabolic type, which is different for each of us,

and for children compared to adults.

From http://www.mercola.com/2005/feb/26/fruit_juices.htm (this is an

article about fruit juices and children).

" I am not advocating that one should avoid all fruit (unless one

struggles with yeast or Candida), just fruit juice. One thing to

keep in mind: The starch-derived (corn) fructose used to sweeten

soft drinks and all kinds of processed foods is refined, man-made

and metabolically different than the natural kind already in fruit.

That's why your body converts the starch-derived fructose in

processed foods to brown adipose tissue and trigylcerides that

contribute to diabetes, hypoglycemia, obesity and cardiovascular

disease.

On the other hand, fruit fructose, along with all the nutrients,

vitamins, minerals, water, other mono-, di- and olgio-saccharides

and fiber found in fruit, are converted to blood glucose. " - ph

Mercola

Fruit happens to be one food that children will eat raw, which to my

understanding is beneficial to health. I do care about this issue

because I am raising two daughters who are 11 and 14. They love

fruit and veggies, but also sugar. I am trying to keep the sugar

out of their lives as much as I can. It's very difficult in this

culture because it is handed to them repeatedly in school and

church. I have never worried about their eating fruit. They are

both thin and quite healthy. I believe that a good indication of

whether you have an insulin problem is if you have too much body

fat. I would therefore think it would be wise to watch the

carbohydrate intake of an overweight child. Children didn't used to

be so fat when they ate less sugar and soda (high fructose corn

syrup). Our health epidemic is not caused by overconsumption of

fruit, but rather consumption of processed foods.

Jan

> >

> > Hi Bee,

> >

> > Not to be contrary, but I've read many of Mercola's articles

about

> > fructose and fruit. My take on what he is saying is that

fructose

> > is bad, not whole fruit. In fact he recommends certain fruits

in

> > his articles, particularly berries. I think you are possibly

> > throwing out the baby with the bathwater here.

>

[Guest guest]

Jan wrote: " I believe that a good indication of

whether you have an insulin problem is if you have too much body

fat. "

--- Not necessarily Jan. One of my close friends in high school was thin,

athletic, etc and ate a seemingly healthy diet of proteins, fats, veggies,

fruits and very little (if any) grains or other sugars. Yet after graduation

when she took the physical to join the air force she was diagnosed as diabetic.

Her blood sugar level was so dangerously high that she was immediately put on

insulin.

It was only after she changed her diet further and eliminated starchy/sweet

veggies and fruits that she was able to drop the insulin and go to low dose oral

meds. Unfortunately, I have lost track of her over the years so have no idea

what her status is now.

Ellen

[Guest guest]

Hi Ellen,

I agree that body weight isn't the only indication. What I didn't

mention is that I am thin and had blood glucose levels as high as 192

(over 200 is a clinical diagnosis for diabetes). I believe this was

caused by candida and I'm hoping that the problem corrects as I get

rid of the candida. My blood glucose is easily kept in a good range

by eating Bee's diet. I found that I couldn't tolerate more than

one piece of fruit or 1/2 cup of grain without my glucose rising

above 120. That is the desired upper limit for diabetics these

days. People with normal systems can tolerate a piece of fruit or

half cup of grain without any problem. I even tested myself, my

sister, and my brother after Christmas dinner a couple of years ago

and found that their blood glucose didn't get above about 115 after

a heavy starchy, sugary meal. Mine went to about 135 after eating

very light on the carbs compared to them. They both carry more

weight than I do, especially my brother.

So my point here isn't to say that all is well just because you are

thin, but to say that if your child is overweight, you should take a

look at how much carbs they are eating. Also, it appears that your

friend didn't have too much insulin, but rather wasn't producing it,

which is why she had to be put on insulin. People with type 2

diabetes can produce insulin, their bodies just can't seem to use it

properly, which causes them to put on weight. Being thin can be a

sign of type 1 diabetes (because lack of insulin causes starvation),

whereas being overweight is a common sign of type 2. They are

really two different diseases, although in late stages, a type 2

diabetic's pancreas can eventually fail and they will also stop

producing insulin.

Jan

" I believe that a good indication of

> whether you have an insulin problem is if you have too much body

> fat. "

>

> --- Not necessarily Jan. One of my close friends in high school

was thin, athletic, etc and ate a seemingly healthy diet of

proteins, fats, veggies, fruits and very little (if any) grains or

other sugars. Yet after graduation when she took the physical to

join the air force she was diagnosed as diabetic. Her blood sugar

level was so dangerously high that she was immediately put on

insulin.

>

> It was only after she changed her diet further and eliminated

starchy/sweet veggies and fruits that she was able to drop the

insulin and go to low dose oral meds. Unfortunately, I have lost

track of her over the years so have no idea what her status is now.

>

> Ellen

>

>

[Guest guest]

I can tell you one thing, that is that I not only meet

nearly all of the RDA's but vastly exceed most of them

with just veggies.

You can see one of my daily menus if you are

interested with the nutritional data for the day here:

http://debbypadilla.0catch.com/lowcarb/menu.jpg

http://debbypadilla.0catch.com/lowcarb/nutrients.jpg

You can see I get nearly 2000% the RDA for vitamin C

and more than 3000% the RDA for Vitamin K. I am

consistently lacking on the Vitamin D and calcium,

every single day.

For the vitamin D I make sure I sit in the sun for 15

mins a day, and I supplement the calcium. So I do

agree that you can get everything you need from your

veggies.

That being said, I do agree that small amounts of

fruit, especially the fruit that has less sugar and

more antioxidants and good qualities like coconut,

blueberries, blackberries, etc. is OK for healthy

people, especially children.

I do limit fruit for my son as I do think it's easy to

go overboard on those things. I also do not try to

give higher sugar fruits to him.

Luv,

Debby

San , CA

--- Bee Wilder <beeisbuzzing2003@...> wrote:

> Dear Jan,

> One fruit per day with plenty of " good " fats to slow

> the release of

> fructose into the bloodstream is okay for healthy

> people. The value of

> any fruits is way over-rated when you can get more

> nutrients like

> vitamin C from broccoli or peppers.

Website for my son Hunter Hudson, born 10/11/04:

http://debbypadilla.0catch.com/hunter/

Today is the most important day.

[Guest guest]

>

> I can tell you one thing, that is that I not only meet

> nearly all of the RDA's but vastly exceed most of them

> with just veggies.

>

*****I noticed you listed bell pepper on your menu. Actually, that

is a fruit. Also in the fruit category are tomatoes, summer squash,

zucchini, eggplant, avocado, - I believe anything that isn't the

leaf or the root is officially a fruit. (Might be wrong there) I

agree with Jan about fruits being actually good for most people, and

also agree that fruit juice is a bad idea (especially the cooked

stuff in the stores) - however, I don't think the baby should be

thrown out with the bath water. Fruit can be added to vegetable

juices (fresh squeezed) and some salads and veggies to make them

delicious and appealing to both children and adults. Which is not

to contradict Bee, since she is mostly talking about people with

candida and for them, apparently the sweeter ones are harmful.

[Guest guest]

--- grammylaura59 <grammylaura59@...> wrote:

> *****I noticed you listed bell pepper on your menu.

> Actually, that

> is a fruit. Also in the fruit category are

> tomatoes, summer squash,

> zucchini, eggplant, avocado, -

I do find I have to limit all of these things in my

diet otherwise I run into problems, especially bell

peppers. Even on days I do not include bell peppers

in my diet I meet (and exceed by quite a bit) all of

the RDA's except D and Calcium. So my point was only

to show you that you *can* indeed get exceptional

nutritional value from veggies without any fruits

needed, healthy or not.

As far as bell peppers being fruit, I think we are

arguing semantics. There are plenty of things that

are *technically* fruits but that most people consider

a veggie, like peppers. I think that when it is

recommended to avoid fruits in general what is being

referred to is what most people consider fruits, as

those tend to be high in sugar like bananas, apples,

pineapple, oranges, etc.

Bell Peppers, Zucchini, eggplant and avocado are

considered " Fruiting and flowering vegetables " , and

they are kind of in a cross-over category between

fruit and vegetable. They also tend to have higher

carb counts so I tend to use them sparingly, and stick

with the real veggies. Also Bee has a very clear list

of what veggies are OK and which are not.. it's easy

to just go by that list and not worry about the rest.

In case you are interested, here's a list of technical

veggies and fruits:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vegetables

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fruits

Keep in mind that candida feeds on sugar, and there is

sugar in fruits and veggies, so if you make the best

choices and choose the low sugar ones as your staples

you'll do all right with your candida diet. Likewise

for healthy people, it's best to choose lower sugar

veggies mainly with higher sugar veggies and fruit

used sparingly, otherwise the Healthy person will

eventually become unhealthy.

So while we can debate semantics about what is and

isn't a fruit, the bottom line comes down to the

amount of sugar you are putting in your body. The more

sugar you eat, the more chance that candida will take

hold, even if you are healthy.

Luv,

Debby

San , CA

Website for my son Hunter Hudson, born 10/11/04:

http://debbypadilla.0catch.com/hunter/

Today is the most important day.

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Bee,

>

> What is your source for the one fruit per day limit, with plenty of

> fats? This was all I could find on Mercola, and he doesn't really

> mention a universal quantity restriction, he just talks about eating

according to your metabolic type, which is different for each of us,

and for children compared to adults.

==>I do not necessarily agree with everything that Mercola writes, and

I do not agree with his metabolic typing. I can't recall exactly where

I read about eating one fruit per day with plenty of fats, but I think

it was at www.westonaprice.org - I do not have time to look it up right

now. Fruits as a source of nutrients is very overrated, probably

because of the food industry. There is much more vitamin C per volume

in foods like broccoli or green peppers than in any fruits, except

acerola cherries. Fructose is worse than glucose for raising insulin

levels, but fats slow their release so the body isn't flooded all at

once.

Bee

[Guest guest]

Hi Bee,

I don't agree with everything Mercola says either, but he certainly

has opened my eyes about a lot of issues - and so have you. I tried

his free metabolic typing on the internet, but the questions didn't

even apply well to someone who is already eating low carb. There

were questions about how you feel after eating carbs, that sort of

thing. In my case, I just keep an awareness of my weight and blood

sugar levels. If either one is too high, then my carb intake is too

high. Of course, on the candida diet, I am almost too thin, and my

blood sugar is super stable. I'm sure that once I'm completely

cured, I will probably not feel like having more than one fruit a

day anyway as I am so used to not having it and my kraut has filled

that niche for me. Plus, my mind is clearer than ever and I feel

very emotionally calm on this low carb diet - and I don't get hungry

easily and I have no more bloating.

As for feeding my children, that is another matter. I have a

growing 11-yr-old daughter (tall and slender) who could out-eat a

farm hand. I see no need to restrict her fruit intake. She

typically has one to three fruits per day. She doesn't eat much

bread or other grains (at home) and she eats plenty of vegetables.

It's either give her fruit or she will be starving for some much

worse carb like candy or ramen noodles. I'm weaning her off

chocolate milk by blending carob and a little banana in her (raw)

milk. She has never liked plain milk (she breastfed until she was

three, so refused cow's milk after that). It's difficult raising a

child in this culture if you don't go along with the status quo.

I'm trying to make the best choices I can for my girls and they

appreciate all of the good homemade food. It's dangerous out in the

world though because sugar is everywhere. (ly, fruit is the

least of my worries.) The two supposedly safest havens for children

(church and school) are the worst offenders. It's scary.

Jan

> ==>I do not necessarily agree with everything that Mercola writes,

and

> I do not agree with his metabolic typing. I can't recall exactly

where

> I read about eating one fruit per day with plenty of fats, but I

think

> it was at www.westonaprice.org - I do not have time to look it up

right

> now. Fruits as a source of nutrients is very overrated, probably

> because of the food industry. There is much more vitamin C per

volume

> in foods like broccoli or green peppers than in any fruits, except

> acerola cherries. Fructose is worse than glucose for raising

insulin

> levels, but fats slow their release so the body isn't flooded all

at

> once.

>

> Bee

>

[Guest guest]

> Dear Jan,

> One fruit per day with plenty of " good " fats to slow the release of

> fructose into the bloodstream is okay for healthy people. The value of

> any fruits is way over-rated when you can get more nutrients like

> vitamin C from broccoli or peppers.

OK, I haven't made it all the way through this threat yet since I'm still

playing catch-up, so forgive me if this stuff has been mentioned before.

First of all, peppers are technically fruit. So are things like tomatoes,

squash, cukes... IIRC, the definition of " fruit " that I learned in biology

was " the seed-containing part of the plant " . I'm sure that these " fruits "

contain fructose, but that doesn't make them bad for us.

Also, as I've mentioned before, fructose is found in other non-fruit parts

of edible plants. Onions have fructose. Again, onions are really great

for us.

Fructose does have a slightly quicker impact on blood glucose levels than,

say, sucrose, but if you have fat or fiber along with your fructose, you

can slow the impact it has on your blood glucose levels. For people who

AREN'T insulin resistant (or otherwise impaired), whole fruit is a fine

choice in moderation. Even for those of us with candida, fruits like

peppers, cukes, and avocados are fine and contain amazing nutrients.

My view - fruit isn't bad for everyone, but I can't handle it now.

Fructose isn't bad either unless you're ingesting it without the fiber

that helps slow its impact on your blood glucose. I don't even DARE get

on my soap box about how I feel about pasturized fruit juice that they

sell in the stores. *sigh*

in IN