Re: How much artemisinin? BEFORE core protocol?

[Guest guest]

i was just researching the same question: should i be treating the babs with

artemisinin BEFORE i get into the core protocol?

ellen: where did you find buhner said yes?

i found on page 178: " ...babesia must be treated first in order to bring the

lyme infection under control more successfully. "

page 181: " treating beaesia coinfection first will generally promote better

outcomes in treatment of lyme disease. "

wondering,

kendra

-----Original Message-----

> Am I correct in assuming that I can add the artemisinin to the

core protocol, rather than choosing between one or the other?

->Yes, can add to protocol

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to throw this in there...Dr Zhang (Chinese herbs) treats Babesia

first with

Artemisinin as well. I believe Buhner even refers to him in his book...ah yes,

just found the

reference on pg 180, last paragraph. That's how he treated me.

>

> i was just researching the same question: should i be treating the babs with

> artemisinin BEFORE i get into the core protocol?

> ellen: where did you find buhner said yes?

>

> i found on page 178: " ...babesia must be treated first in order to bring the

> lyme infection under control more successfully. "

> page 181: " treating beaesia coinfection first will generally promote better

> outcomes in treatment of lyme disease. "

>

> wondering,

> kendra

>

> -----Original Message-----

> > Am I correct in assuming that I can add the artemisinin to the

> core protocol, rather than choosing between one or the other?

>

> ->Yes, can add to protocol

>

[Guest guest]

Aah...the danger in not reading carefully and then giving advice.

(smile).

Kendra, I didn't actually look in Buhner before I treated my

babesia, I just took the artemisinin with the Core Protocol.

Glad you checked it out!

ellen

>

> i was just researching the same question: should i be treating the

babs with

> artemisinin BEFORE i get into the core protocol?

> ellen: where did you find buhner said yes?

>

> i found on page 178: " ...babesia must be treated first in order to

bring the

> lyme infection under control more successfully. "

> page 181: " treating beaesia coinfection first will generally

promote better

> outcomes in treatment of lyme disease. "

>

> wondering,

> kendra

>

> -----Original Message-----

> > Am I correct in assuming that I can add the artemisinin to the

> core protocol, rather than choosing between one or the other?

>

> ->Yes, can add to protocol

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I have always heard that babesia must be treated first, and I do remember

Buhner saying that as well. But much of the core protocol is about ameliorating

symptoms and feeling better and repairing damage, as well as killing

spirochetes. Is there any reason at all not to continue to take the CP herbs

while taking artemisinin? They all seem very health-promoting.

I mean, if you have are on the CP, and you're all ramped up to the maximum

dosage, and then decide, gee, I think maybe this might be babesia... Do you

stop the CP and just take artemisinin and the boneset tea and whatever the other

one was? And then have to ramp back up on the CP from nothing? What if it's

not babesia, and you've wasted all that time and let the Lyme get a stronger

foothold while you dither around doing the wrong protocol? It's not like we

have definitive babs tests. I tested negative for babs. This might be just

Lyme. We're just going by symptoms here, and lack of response to abx - feeling

our way in the dark.

So I gusss the question is, does staying on the CP in any way interact with the

babesia protocol, making it less effective? And is there any danger combining

the two? Or is it just that we can't expect the CP to do its job as long as

there is still babs present? If there is no danger in doing both, I'd just as

soon stay on it. I don't think Buhner addresses this directly. Might be a good

question for his column.

D. (who had a VERY bad night with constant sweats, and hopes maybe that's

because the artemisinin is killing stuff)

rasheedaas <rasheedaas@...> wrote:

Aah...the danger in not reading carefully and then giving advice.

(smile).

Kendra, I didn't actually look in Buhner before I treated my

babesia, I just took the artemisinin with the Core Protocol.

Glad you checked it out!

ellen

>

> i was just researching the same question: should i be treating the

babs with

> artemisinin BEFORE i get into the core protocol?

> ellen: where did you find buhner said yes?

>

> i found on page 178: " ...babesia must be treated first in order to

bring the

> lyme infection under control more successfully. "

> page 181: " treating beaesia coinfection first will generally

promote better

> outcomes in treatment of lyme disease. "

>

> wondering,

> kendra

>

> -----Original Message-----

> > Am I correct in assuming that I can add the artemisinin to the

> core protocol, rather than choosing between one or the other?

>

> ->Yes, can add to protocol

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Hi , Very good question. Glad you brought that up as I have also been

thinking the same thing. Especially when the tests are said to not all be

accurate. Good ? for Buhner. Blessings to your healing Joyce

DeMarco <ponyrubs@...> wrote: Yes,

I have always heard that babesia must be treated first, and I do remember Buhner

saying that as well. But much of the core protocol is about ameliorating

symptoms and feeling better and repairing damage, as well as killing

spirochetes. Is there any reason at all not to continue to take the CP herbs

while taking artemisinin? They all seem very health-promoting.

I mean, if you have are on the CP, and you're all ramped up to the maximum

dosage, and then decide, gee, I think maybe this might be babesia... Do you

stop the CP and just take artemisinin and the boneset tea and whatever the other

one was? And then have to ramp back up on the CP from nothing? What if it's

not babesia, and you've wasted all that time and let the Lyme get a stronger

foothold while you dither around doing the wrong protocol? It's not like we

have definitive babs tests. I tested negative for babs. This might be just

Lyme. We're just going by symptoms here, and lack of response to abx - feeling

our way in the dark.

So I gusss the question is, does staying on the CP in any way interact with the

babesia protocol, making it less effective? And is there any danger combining

the two? Or is it just that we can't expect the CP to do its job as long as

there is still babs present? If there is no danger in doing both, I'd just as

soon stay on it. I don't think Buhner addresses this directly. Might be a good

question for his column.

D. (who had a VERY bad night with constant sweats, and hopes maybe that's

because the artemisinin is killing stuff)

rasheedaas <rasheedaas@...> wrote:

Aah...the danger in not reading carefully and then giving advice.

(smile).

Kendra, I didn't actually look in Buhner before I treated my

babesia, I just took the artemisinin with the Core Protocol.

Glad you checked it out!

ellen

>

> i was just researching the same question: should i be treating the

babs with

> artemisinin BEFORE i get into the core protocol?

> ellen: where did you find buhner said yes?

>

> i found on page 178: " ...babesia must be treated first in order to

bring the

> lyme infection under control more successfully. "

> page 181: " treating beaesia coinfection first will generally

promote better

> outcomes in treatment of lyme disease. "

>

> wondering,

> kendra

>

> -----Original Message-----

> > Am I correct in assuming that I can add the artemisinin to the

> core protocol, rather than choosing between one or the other?

>

> ->Yes, can add to protocol

---------------------------------

Get your email and more, right on the new .com

[Guest guest]

i tested neg for Babesia too. i actually went to Dr. Zhang in NYC (whom

Buhner refers to

in the book) and Zhang gave me chinese herbs - one of which was

Artemesia. (same

as artemisinin) - i took this for about 3 months and didn't notice any

difference in symtoms.

perhaps got a little worse. which could mean die-off. but not that much

worse than my

baseline. i stopped taking the artemesia and don't notice feeling any

better.

so i wonder if it's really necessary to take the artemisinin at all if

you don't have a pos. babesia test.

STeve

On Sep 9, 2006, at 11:27 AM, joyce la fleur wrote:

> Hi , Very good question. Glad you brought that up as I have also

> been thinking the same thing. Especially when the tests are said to

> not all be accurate. Good ? for Buhner. Blessings to your healing

> Joyce

>

> DeMarco <ponyrubs@...> wrote: Yes, I have always heard

> that babesia must be treated first, and I do remember Buhner saying

> that as well. But much of the core protocol is about ameliorating

> symptoms and feeling better and repairing damage, as well as killing

> spirochetes. Is there any reason at all not to continue to take the CP

> herbs while taking artemisinin? They all seem very health-promoting.

>

> I mean, if you have are on the CP, and you're all ramped up to the

> maximum dosage, and then decide, gee, I think maybe this might be

> babesia... Do you stop the CP and just take artemisinin and the

> boneset tea and whatever the other one was? And then have to ramp back

> up on the CP from nothing? What if it's not babesia, and you've wasted

> all that time and let the Lyme get a stronger foothold while you

> dither around doing the wrong protocol? It's not like we have

> definitive babs tests. I tested negative for babs. This might be just

> Lyme. We're just going by symptoms here, and lack of response to abx -

> feeling our way in the dark.

>

> So I gusss the question is, does staying on the CP in any way

> interact with the babesia protocol, making it less effective? And is

> there any danger combining the two? Or is it just that we can't expect

> the CP to do its job as long as there is still babs present? If there

> is no danger in doing both, I'd just as soon stay on it. I don't think

> Buhner addresses this directly. Might be a good question for his

> column.

>

> D. (who had a VERY bad night with constant sweats, and hopes

> maybe that's because the artemisinin is killing stuff)

>

> rasheedaas <rasheedaas@...> wrote: Aah...the danger in not

> reading carefully and then giving advice.

> (smile).

>

> Kendra, I didn't actually look in Buhner before I treated my

> babesia, I just took the artemisinin with the Core Protocol.

> Glad you checked it out!

>

> ellen

>

[Guest guest]

Connie and Steve, et. al,

The first time I took Art I definitely noticed a reduction in air

hunger and sweats; now, nothing. I have been taking 2 art twice a day

and the sweats and AH are worse than ever, fatigue as well. I, like

you, don't know if I should stop the Art or just keep going. If you

figure something out let me know. :-)

Ballady

>

> and everyone,

>

> I can relate to the night of bad sweats. I have been combining the

Babs and Lyme protocols and am now on 3/4 dose of the CP 3 - 4 times a

day and 100 mg Art with each dose. Initially I had a big reduction

in sweats, but they have returned. I do not completely understand why

and am not sure what I should be doing differently. I just started on

boneset tea and red root a few days ago and I will hope that will help me.

>

> I have always thought I have much more trouble with Babs than Lyme.

I went through a couple of years of Lyme treatment, then when I came

off IV I crashed hard, and was sicker than I ever was before and lost

my career. After 2 years of hanging in there, even hanging IVs in the

car on the way to appts, my brain got so bad I could hardly think. As

my job required brains I could no longer do it. Imagine my surprise

when the doc decided to run a bunch of tests again and I was positive

on the Babs FISH. Starting Babs treatment with Mepron and Zith was

the best thing I ever did and I made great improvements..

>

> Reading all this has me questioning what I am doing.

>

> Should I stop the CP and go full speed ahead on the 3 Babs things,

and how should I do this?

>

> My problem is also related to the fact that I had a bout with BC

early this year and had to come abruptly off HRT. Sweats seemed to

come on then, but then after several months of horrible sleep

disruption, I was desparate and wondered if it was Babs at work. So

I took a month of Mepron and antibiotics and BINGO, my sweats

improved. But I don't really want to stay on those hard core drugs

and wanted to try this protocol.

>

> I am also in a situation where I have a LLMD who has been sanctioned

by his medical board and I do not know if I will be able to continue

treatment.. That is another reasonto get off " drugs " and get some

control over this.

>

> If anyone has any thoughts or recs for me, please speak up. I have

been on the protocol for about 5 weeks now and started off slowly, and

added 1/4 dose every week and a half or so. Just about up to full

speed and I hate to stop it. But would it be best to go after Babs

with the art, red root and boneset tea?

>

> Sweats have not returned to the level they were before I took that

month of Mepron a few months back. Before that they were horrible.

It was not unusual for me to have 12 really bad flashes a day. Not

just a few minutes, I would become drenched with sweat, would get

really fatigued and dizzy, flushed. And this was at least 12 times

every 24 hours. At times they were so bad I would throw up. In the

night I would jerk awake every 2 hours or so then go into the flash

routine. Then 1/2 hr to get back to sleep and was so sleep deprived.

It was as if my body was waking me up to experience the full flash.

>

> Thank God they are no longer that bad. And I can only assume that I

beat the Babs critters back with that month of Mepron.

>

> Anyone here have the unique experience of sorting out flashes from

menopause vs Babs.

>

> Thanks for any advice/help whatever.

>

> Conie

>

> >

> > From: DeMarco <ponyrubs@...>

> > Date: 2006/09/09 Sat AM 10:00:29 EDT

> >

> > Subject: Re: [ ] Re: How much artemisinin? BEFORE

core protocol?

> >

> > Yes, I have always heard that babesia must be treated first, and I

do remember Buhner saying that as well. But much of the core protocol

is about ameliorating symptoms and feeling better and repairing

damage, as well as killing spirochetes. Is there any reason at all

not to continue to take the CP herbs while taking artemisinin? They

all seem very health-promoting.

> >

> > I mean, if you have are on the CP, and you're all ramped up to the

maximum dosage, and then decide, gee, I think maybe this might be

babesia... Do you stop the CP and just take artemisinin and the

boneset tea and whatever the other one was? And then have to ramp

back up on the CP from nothing? What if it's not babesia, and you've

wasted all that time and let the Lyme get a stronger foothold while

you dither around doing the wrong protocol? It's not like we have

definitive babs tests. I tested negative for babs. This might be

just Lyme. We're just going by symptoms here, and lack of response to

abx - feeling our way in the dark.

> >

> > So I gusss the question is, does staying on the CP in any way

interact with the babesia protocol, making it less effective? And is

there any danger combining the two? Or is it just that we can't

expect the CP to do its job as long as there is still babs present?

If there is no danger in doing both, I'd just as soon stay on it. I

don't think Buhner addresses this directly. Might be a good question

for his column.

> >

> > D. (who had a VERY bad night with constant sweats, and hopes

maybe that's because the artemisinin is killing stuff)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Connie,

Your flashes sound very much like mine were before taking doxycycline. They

would literally knock me to the ground, along with lightening bolt sensations

and pain deep in my skin over my entire body, like my sweat glands were all

screaming about having to work so hard. For me, doxy was the magic bullet.

After about 3 months of doxy, they were completely gone. It was a miracle.

When I went from doxy to amoxicillin, they came back, but not as bad as they

used to be. I'll still get one every hour or so, but it is just a few minutes,

and the fatigue and dizziness and occasional nausea that comes with them is very

minor now. It sure would be great to get them gone, though.

Mine started when I had 4 wisdom teeth removed, and the oral surgeon broke my

jaw, and another surgeon put it back together with plates & screws 5 days later.

I think it was a combination of stress, and losing a lot of weight, and being

given all those drugs, including steroids. It appeared at the time that the

experience knocked me into menopause (I was 45), but now I think it just gave

the Lyme a chance to take hold.

It's really, really hard to know what is menopause and what is babs and what is

Lyme. For me, if the sweats come with those other sensations - the pain and

cramping and lightening bolts, then I think it is Lyme/Babs-related. Otherwise,

I blame it on menopause.

Have you been on doxycycline? I would be very interested to hear if it worked

for someone else. If it does, I want it back. I stopped due to extreme

sun-sensitivity, but there's always minocycline.

Take care,

conniemc@... wrote: and

everyone,

I can relate to the night of bad sweats. I have been combining the Babs and

Lyme protocols and am now on 3/4 dose of the CP 3 - 4 times a day and 100 mg Art

with each dose. Initially I had a big reduction in sweats, but they have

returned. I do not completely understand why and am not sure what I should be

doing differently. I just started on boneset tea and red root a few days ago

and I will hope that will help me.

I have always thought I have much more trouble with Babs than Lyme. I went

through a couple of years of Lyme treatment, then when I came off IV I crashed

hard, and was sicker than I ever was before and lost my career. After 2 years

of hanging in there, even hanging IVs in the car on the way to appts, my brain

got so bad I could hardly think. As my job required brains I could no longer do

it. Imagine my surprise when the doc decided to run a bunch of tests again and

I was positive on the Babs FISH. Starting Babs treatment with Mepron and Zith

was the best thing I ever did and I made great improvements..

Reading all this has me questioning what I am doing.

Should I stop the CP and go full speed ahead on the 3 Babs things, and how

should I do this?

My problem is also related to the fact that I had a bout with BC early this

year and had to come abruptly off HRT. Sweats seemed to come on then, but then

after several months of horrible sleep disruption, I was desparate and wondered

if it was Babs at work. So I took a month of Mepron and antibiotics and BINGO,

my sweats improved. But I don't really want to stay on those hard core drugs

and wanted to try this protocol.

I am also in a situation where I have a LLMD who has been sanctioned by his

medical board and I do not know if I will be able to continue treatment.. That

is another reasonto get off " drugs " and get some control over this.

If anyone has any thoughts or recs for me, please speak up. I have been on the

protocol for about 5 weeks now and started off slowly, and added 1/4 dose every

week and a half or so. Just about up to full speed and I hate to stop it. But

would it be best to go after Babs with the art, red root and boneset tea?

Sweats have not returned to the level they were before I took that month of

Mepron a few months back. Before that they were horrible. It was not unusual

for me to have 12 really bad flashes a day. Not just a few minutes, I would

become drenched with sweat, would get really fatigued and dizzy, flushed. And

this was at least 12 times every 24 hours. At times they were so bad I would

throw up. In the night I would jerk awake every 2 hours or so then go into the

flash routine. Then 1/2 hr to get back to sleep and was so sleep deprived. It

was as if my body was waking me up to experience the full flash.

Thank God they are no longer that bad. And I can only assume that I beat the

Babs critters back with that month of Mepron.

Anyone here have the unique experience of sorting out flashes from menopause vs

Babs.

Thanks for any advice/help whatever.

Conie

>

> From: DeMarco <ponyrubs@...>

> Date: 2006/09/09 Sat AM 10:00:29 EDT

>

> Subject: Re: [ ] Re: How much artemisinin? BEFORE core

protocol?

>

> Yes, I have always heard that babesia must be treated first, and I do

remember Buhner saying that as well. But much of the core protocol is about

ameliorating symptoms and feeling better and repairing damage, as well as

killing spirochetes. Is there any reason at all not to continue to take the CP

herbs while taking artemisinin? They all seem very health-promoting.

>

> I mean, if you have are on the CP, and you're all ramped up to the maximum

dosage, and then decide, gee, I think maybe this might be babesia... Do you

stop the CP and just take artemisinin and the boneset tea and whatever the other

one was? And then have to ramp back up on the CP from nothing? What if it's

not babesia, and you've wasted all that time and let the Lyme get a stronger

foothold while you dither around doing the wrong protocol? It's not like we

have definitive babs tests. I tested negative for babs. This might be just

Lyme. We're just going by symptoms here, and lack of response to abx - feeling

our way in the dark.

>

> So I gusss the question is, does staying on the CP in any way interact with

the babesia protocol, making it less effective? And is there any danger

combining the two? Or is it just that we can't expect the CP to do its job as

long as there is still babs present? If there is no danger in doing both, I'd

just as soon stay on it. I don't think Buhner addresses this directly. Might

be a good question for his column.

>

> D. (who had a VERY bad night with constant sweats, and hopes maybe

that's because the artemisinin is killing stuff)

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Hi all, On test it said no babs. But I do have sweats, and I think air hunger u

all talk about. Post menopausal. When I started Buhner protocal my night and day

sweats have been extreme. Wondering if this is immune stronger with herbs or

what. So confusing. Has anyones sweats increased with core protocal?

Namaste' Joyce

ballady4 <ballady4@...> wrote:

Connie and Steve, et. al,

The first time I took Art I definitely noticed a reduction in air

hunger and sweats; now, nothing. I have been taking 2 art twice a day

and the sweats and AH are worse than ever, fatigue as well. I, like

you, don't know if I should stop the Art or just keep going. If you

figure something out let me know. :-)

Ballady

>

> and everyone,

>

> I can relate to the night of bad sweats. I have been combining the

Babs and Lyme protocols and am now on 3/4 dose of the CP 3 - 4 times a

day and 100 mg Art with each dose. Initially I had a big reduction

in sweats, but they have returned. I do not completely understand why

and am not sure what I should be doing differently. I just started on

boneset tea and red root a few days ago and I will hope that will help me.

>

> I have always thought I have much more trouble with Babs than Lyme.

I went through a couple of years of Lyme treatment, then when I came

off IV I crashed hard, and was sicker than I ever was before and lost

my career. After 2 years of hanging in there, even hanging IVs in the

car on the way to appts, my brain got so bad I could hardly think. As

my job required brains I could no longer do it. Imagine my surprise

when the doc decided to run a bunch of tests again and I was positive

on the Babs FISH. Starting Babs treatment with Mepron and Zith was

the best thing I ever did and I made great improvements..

>

> Reading all this has me questioning what I am doing.

>

> Should I stop the CP and go full speed ahead on the 3 Babs things,

and how should I do this?

>

> My problem is also related to the fact that I had a bout with BC

early this year and had to come abruptly off HRT. Sweats seemed to

come on then, but then after several months of horrible sleep

disruption, I was desparate and wondered if it was Babs at work. So

I took a month of Mepron and antibiotics and BINGO, my sweats

improved. But I don't really want to stay on those hard core drugs

and wanted to try this protocol.

>

> I am also in a situation where I have a LLMD who has been sanctioned

by his medical board and I do not know if I will be able to continue

treatment.. That is another reasonto get off " drugs " and get some

control over this.

>

> If anyone has any thoughts or recs for me, please speak up. I have

been on the protocol for about 5 weeks now and started off slowly, and

added 1/4 dose every week and a half or so. Just about up to full

speed and I hate to stop it. But would it be best to go after Babs

with the art, red root and boneset tea?

>

> Sweats have not returned to the level they were before I took that

month of Mepron a few months back. Before that they were horrible.

It was not unusual for me to have 12 really bad flashes a day. Not

just a few minutes, I would become drenched with sweat, would get

really fatigued and dizzy, flushed. And this was at least 12 times

every 24 hours. At times they were so bad I would throw up. In the

night I would jerk awake every 2 hours or so then go into the flash

routine. Then 1/2 hr to get back to sleep and was so sleep deprived.

It was as if my body was waking me up to experience the full flash.

>

> Thank God they are no longer that bad. And I can only assume that I

beat the Babs critters back with that month of Mepron.

>

> Anyone here have the unique experience of sorting out flashes from

menopause vs Babs.

>

> Thanks for any advice/help whatever.

>

> Conie

>

> >

> > From: DeMarco <ponyrubs@...>

> > Date: 2006/09/09 Sat AM 10:00:29 EDT

> >

> > Subject: Re: [ ] Re: How much artemisinin? BEFORE

core protocol?

> >

> > Yes, I have always heard that babesia must be treated first, and I

do remember Buhner saying that as well. But much of the core protocol

is about ameliorating symptoms and feeling better and repairing

damage, as well as killing spirochetes. Is there any reason at all

not to continue to take the CP herbs while taking artemisinin? They

all seem very health-promoting.

> >

> > I mean, if you have are on the CP, and you're all ramped up to the

maximum dosage, and then decide, gee, I think maybe this might be

babesia... Do you stop the CP and just take artemisinin and the

boneset tea and whatever the other one was? And then have to ramp

back up on the CP from nothing? What if it's not babesia, and you've

wasted all that time and let the Lyme get a stronger foothold while

you dither around doing the wrong protocol? It's not like we have

definitive babs tests. I tested negative for babs. This might be

just Lyme. We're just going by symptoms here, and lack of response to

abx - feeling our way in the dark.

> >

> > So I gusss the question is, does staying on the CP in any way

interact with the babesia protocol, making it less effective? And is

there any danger combining the two? Or is it just that we can't

expect the CP to do its job as long as there is still babs present?

If there is no danger in doing both, I'd just as soon stay on it. I

don't think Buhner addresses this directly. Might be a good question

for his column.

> >

> > D. (who had a VERY bad night with constant sweats, and hopes

maybe that's because the artemisinin is killing stuff)

> >

>

---------------------------------

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