Re: Anyone Doing T shots SubQ.

[Guest guest]

I thought the down side of Sub-Q shots of Depo was that in the fat, you would

get more conversion to E2 since that is where the aromatase is? Or are you

suppose to inject in areas where there is not much fat deposited?

Confused in Arkansas

Philip Georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

I have this cut & paste of one of Dr. Shippen's men saying that Dr.

Shippen is doing his shots of T every 3 days. Are there any of his

guys out there doing this. Need to know how it is going here doing

this is keeping E2 down.

Phil

http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?showtopic=8130

[From the link above:]

[initial posting:]

" I was corresponding with a patient of Dr. Eugene Shippen (THE

TESTOSTERONE SYNDROME) about Dr. Shippen's protocol. Apparently his

preferred method of testosterone replacement therapy in cases where

he otherwise might have tried pellets, creams or gels is now

SUBCUTANEOUS testosterone injection. According to this patient,

unlike intramuscular injection, subcutaneous injection of a small

amount three times per week results in ultra stable levels and low

estrogen conversion. Apparently Shippen uses this method for his own

testosterone replacement. Not only does it work better than even

pellets apparently but it's dirt cheap compared to about any other

method.

I was going to get pellets (hypopituitary) but now I wonder if I

should try this. I have two questions though:

1) Are there any studies on this method? I couldn't find any.

2) I don't doubt Shippen; the lab work of who knows how many

patients would not lie. But if it works so well, why the HELL wasn't

this thought of and tested a long time ago?? It seems like there is

a big " DUH " factor here. "

[A second posting:]

" does he use free testosteorne? a suspension? does he used an oil

based ester? specifics please

also, subQ injections are often more painful or lead to

inflammation. if you ever have accidentally gotten a steroid

injection into the subq instead of the muscle you would understand "

[A reply:]

" I heard back from the patient of Dr. Shippen. He injects depo-

testosterone 200mg/ml, .35 ml every 3 days into abdominal fat. He

splits the injections into two .18 ml injections which is .36 ml,

and says this is because a tiny amount will leak out of the

injection site.

According to this patient, this dosing schedule leaves him with a

stable 900 ng/dl total testosterone level and none of the high

estrogen conversion associated with large intramuscular injection.

Apparently Shippen is convinced enough that this is now his

preferred method of TRT. I know he starts by trying to get levels

into the high normal range by trying to get the body to make its

own, but if TRT is called for apparently subcutaneous injection is

the first thing he prescribes. "

[This appears to be 70mg every 3 days for a total of 163mg/wk]

[Guest guest]

This is my reason for posting this to see if any of the guys doing subQ are

having good success on this. In the cut & paste Dr. Shippen is doing this on

him self and I was hopeing on of his guys would post back letting me know how it

is going. Dr. did say he is not ready to try this but feels subQ shots in

small amounts like every 3 days will not convert as fast as the gels do. I

started doing my HCG subQ and my E2 is half the problem so I am trying to find

out how the guys that are doing there shots subQ are doing with there E2.

Phil

Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany@...> wrote:

I thought the down side of Sub-Q shots of Depo was that in the fat, you would

get more conversion to E2 since that is where the aromatase is? Or are you

suppose to inject in areas where there is not much fat deposited?

Confused in Arkansas

Philip Georgian

wrote:

I have this cut & paste of one of Dr. Shippen's men saying that Dr.

Shippen is doing his shots of T every 3 days. Are there any of his

guys out there doing this. Need to know how it is going here doing

this is keeping E2 down.

Phil

http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?showtopic=8130

[From the link above:]

[initial posting:]

" I was corresponding with a patient of Dr. Eugene Shippen (THE

TESTOSTERONE SYNDROME) about Dr. Shippen's protocol. Apparently his

preferred method of testosterone replacement therapy in cases where

he otherwise might have tried pellets, creams or gels is now

SUBCUTANEOUS testosterone injection. According to this patient,

unlike intramuscular injection, subcutaneous injection of a small

amount three times per week results in ultra stable levels and low

estrogen conversion. Apparently Shippen uses this method for his own

testosterone replacement. Not only does it work better than even

pellets apparently but it's dirt cheap compared to about any other

method.

I was going to get pellets (hypopituitary) but now I wonder if I

should try this. I have two questions though:

1) Are there any studies on this method? I couldn't find any.

2) I don't doubt Shippen; the lab work of who knows how many

patients would not lie. But if it works so well, why the HELL wasn't

this thought of and tested a long time ago?? It seems like there is

a big " DUH " factor here. "

[A second posting:]

" does he use free testosteorne? a suspension? does he used an oil

based ester? specifics please

also, subQ injections are often more painful or lead to

inflammation. if you ever have accidentally gotten a steroid

injection into the subq instead of the muscle you would understand "

[A reply:]

" I heard back from the patient of Dr. Shippen. He injects depo-

testosterone 200mg/ml, .35 ml every 3 days into abdominal fat. He

splits the injections into two .18 ml injections which is .36 ml,

and says this is because a tiny amount will leak out of the

injection site.

According to this patient, this dosing schedule leaves him with a

stable 900 ng/dl total testosterone level and none of the high

estrogen conversion associated with large intramuscular injection.

Apparently Shippen is convinced enough that this is now his

preferred method of TRT. I know he starts by trying to get levels

into the high normal range by trying to get the body to make its

own, but if TRT is called for apparently subcutaneous injection is

the first thing he prescribes. "

[This appears to be 70mg every 3 days for a total of 163mg/wk]

[Guest guest]

Phil,

I started doing sub-q in the side of the belly where the skin can be pulled away

and

pinched maybe a year ago and suggested 3 times a week around 6 months ago. Used

25

guage 1/2 inch to inject with no problems as long as the injection is in the

" space " and not

in the fat, as that sometimes makes a sterile cyst.

Stopped doing sub-q in the belly and have switched to IM in the leg for the last

5 weeks to

see if it had a different effect. For me i can say that i like the IM in the leg

much more in

that i never get a cyst or red spot or local infection like in the belly. Alos i

get morning

wood all day now, so back to normal. Doing 100mg every 5-10 days, just depends

on how

i feel.

>

> I have this cut & paste of one of Dr. Shippen's men saying that Dr.

> Shippen is doing his shots of T every 3 days. Are there any of his

> guys out there doing this. Need to know how it is going here doing

> this is keeping E2 down.

> Phil

>

> http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?showtopic=8130

>

> [From the link above:]

> [initial posting:]

> " I was corresponding with a patient of Dr. Eugene Shippen (THE

> TESTOSTERONE SYNDROME) about Dr. Shippen's protocol. Apparently his

> preferred method of testosterone replacement therapy in cases where

> he otherwise might have tried pellets, creams or gels is now

> SUBCUTANEOUS testosterone injection. According to this patient,

> unlike intramuscular injection, subcutaneous injection of a small

> amount three times per week results in ultra stable levels and low

> estrogen conversion. Apparently Shippen uses this method for his own

> testosterone replacement. Not only does it work better than even

> pellets apparently but it's dirt cheap compared to about any other

> method.

>

> I was going to get pellets (hypopituitary) but now I wonder if I

> should try this. I have two questions though:

>

> 1) Are there any studies on this method? I couldn't find any.

>

> 2) I don't doubt Shippen; the lab work of who knows how many

> patients would not lie. But if it works so well, why the HELL wasn't

> this thought of and tested a long time ago?? It seems like there is

> a big " DUH " factor here. "

>

> [A second posting:]

> " does he use free testosteorne? a suspension? does he used an oil

> based ester? specifics please

>

> also, subQ injections are often more painful or lead to

> inflammation. if you ever have accidentally gotten a steroid

> injection into the subq instead of the muscle you would understand "

>

> [A reply:]

> " I heard back from the patient of Dr. Shippen. He injects depo-

> testosterone 200mg/ml, .35 ml every 3 days into abdominal fat. He

> splits the injections into two .18 ml injections which is .36 ml,

> and says this is because a tiny amount will leak out of the

> injection site.

>

> According to this patient, this dosing schedule leaves him with a

> stable 900 ng/dl total testosterone level and none of the high

> estrogen conversion associated with large intramuscular injection.

>

> Apparently Shippen is convinced enough that this is now his

> preferred method of TRT. I know he starts by trying to get levels

> into the high normal range by trying to get the body to make its

> own, but if TRT is called for apparently subcutaneous injection is

> the first thing he prescribes. "

> [This appears to be 70mg every 3 days for a total of 163mg/wk]

>

[Guest guest]

So you never noticed if one way or the other helped keep e2 down.

Phil

theta_2k <pohare@...> wrote:

Phil,

I started doing sub-q in the side of the belly where the skin can be pulled away

and

pinched maybe a year ago and suggested 3 times a week around 6 months ago. Used

25

guage 1/2 inch to inject with no problems as long as the injection is in the

" space " and not

in the fat, as that sometimes makes a sterile cyst.

Stopped doing sub-q in the belly and have switched to IM in the leg for the last

5 weeks to

see if it had a different effect. For me i can say that i like the IM in the leg

much more in

that i never get a cyst or red spot or local infection like in the belly. Alos i

get morning

wood all day now, so back to normal. Doing 100mg every 5-10 days, just depends

on how

i feel.

>

> I have this cut & paste of one of Dr. Shippen's men saying that Dr.

> Shippen is doing his shots of T every 3 days. Are there any of his

> guys out there doing this. Need to know how it is going here doing

> this is keeping E2 down.

> Phil

>

> http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?showtopic=8130

>

> [From the link above:]

> [initial posting:]

> " I was corresponding with a patient of Dr. Eugene Shippen (THE

> TESTOSTERONE SYNDROME) about Dr. Shippen's protocol. Apparently his

> preferred method of testosterone replacement therapy in cases where

> he otherwise might have tried pellets, creams or gels is now

> SUBCUTANEOUS testosterone injection. According to this patient,

> unlike intramuscular injection, subcutaneous injection of a small

> amount three times per week results in ultra stable levels and low

> estrogen conversion. Apparently Shippen uses this method for his own

> testosterone replacement. Not only does it work better than even

> pellets apparently but it's dirt cheap compared to about any other

> method.

>

> I was going to get pellets (hypopituitary) but now I wonder if I

> should try this. I have two questions though:

>

> 1) Are there any studies on this method? I couldn't find any.

>

> 2) I don't doubt Shippen; the lab work of who knows how many

> patients would not lie. But if it works so well, why the HELL wasn't

> this thought of and tested a long time ago?? It seems like there is

> a big " DUH " factor here. "

>

> [A second posting:]

> " does he use free testosteorne? a suspension? does he used an oil

> based ester? specifics please

>

> also, subQ injections are often more painful or lead to

> inflammation. if you ever have accidentally gotten a steroid

> injection into the subq instead of the muscle you would understand "

>

> [A reply:]

> " I heard back from the patient of Dr. Shippen. He injects depo-

> testosterone 200mg/ml, .35 ml every 3 days into abdominal fat. He

> splits the injections into two .18 ml injections which is .36 ml,

> and says this is because a tiny amount will leak out of the

> injection site.

>

> According to this patient, this dosing schedule leaves him with a

> stable 900 ng/dl total testosterone level and none of the high

> estrogen conversion associated with large intramuscular injection.

>

> Apparently Shippen is convinced enough that this is now his

> preferred method of TRT. I know he starts by trying to get levels

> into the high normal range by trying to get the body to make its

> own, but if TRT is called for apparently subcutaneous injection is

> the first thing he prescribes. "

> [This appears to be 70mg every 3 days for a total of 163mg/wk]

>

[Guest guest]

The IM in the thigh VS the sub-q in the belly:

Much less to no acne VS lots of acne on the back and upper arms.

Morning wood all day VS hit and miss morning wood.

Wonder if it not so much that there is more estrogen but that there is a better

ratio as the

IM injection of testosterone is better metabolized.

> >

> > I have this cut & paste of one of Dr. Shippen's men saying that Dr.

> > Shippen is doing his shots of T every 3 days. Are there any of his

> > guys out there doing this. Need to know how it is going here doing

> > this is keeping E2 down.

> > Phil

> >

> > http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?showtopic=8130

> >

> > [From the link above:]

> > [initial posting:]

> > " I was corresponding with a patient of Dr. Eugene Shippen (THE

> > TESTOSTERONE SYNDROME) about Dr. Shippen's protocol. Apparently his

> > preferred method of testosterone replacement therapy in cases where

> > he otherwise might have tried pellets, creams or gels is now

> > SUBCUTANEOUS testosterone injection. According to this patient,

> > unlike intramuscular injection, subcutaneous injection of a small

> > amount three times per week results in ultra stable levels and low

> > estrogen conversion. Apparently Shippen uses this method for his own

> > testosterone replacement. Not only does it work better than even

> > pellets apparently but it's dirt cheap compared to about any other

> > method.

> >

> > I was going to get pellets (hypopituitary) but now I wonder if I

> > should try this. I have two questions though:

> >

> > 1) Are there any studies on this method? I couldn't find any.

> >

> > 2) I don't doubt Shippen; the lab work of who knows how many

> > patients would not lie. But if it works so well, why the HELL wasn't

> > this thought of and tested a long time ago?? It seems like there is

> > a big " DUH " factor here. "

> >

> > [A second posting:]

> > " does he use free testosteorne? a suspension? does he used an oil

> > based ester? specifics please

> >

> > also, subQ injections are often more painful or lead to

> > inflammation. if you ever have accidentally gotten a steroid

> > injection into the subq instead of the muscle you would understand "

> >

> > [A reply:]

> > " I heard back from the patient of Dr. Shippen. He injects depo-

> > testosterone 200mg/ml, .35 ml every 3 days into abdominal fat. He

> > splits the injections into two .18 ml injections which is .36 ml,

> > and says this is because a tiny amount will leak out of the

> > injection site.

> >

> > According to this patient, this dosing schedule leaves him with a

> > stable 900 ng/dl total testosterone level and none of the high

> > estrogen conversion associated with large intramuscular injection.

> >

> > Apparently Shippen is convinced enough that this is now his

> > preferred method of TRT. I know he starts by trying to get levels

> > into the high normal range by trying to get the body to make its

> > own, but if TRT is called for apparently subcutaneous injection is

> > the first thing he prescribes. "

> > [This appears to be 70mg every 3 days for a total of 163mg/wk]

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I stopped doing sub-q injections because Dr. does not like it.

I had no problems at all, but could not find anything to disprove

what Dr. thought of sub-q injections.

However if it correct that Dr.Shippen ok'd them, then I will start

again as I felt better doing sub-q than I do doing IM.

As for getting my E's tested, forget it, the doctors I see have no

idea.................

Later.

> > >

> > > I have this cut & paste of one of Dr. Shippen's men saying

that Dr.

> > > Shippen is doing his shots of T every 3 days. Are there any of

his

> > > guys out there doing this. Need to know how it is going here

doing

> > > this is keeping E2 down.

> > > Phil

> > >

> > > http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?showtopic=8130

> > >

> > > [From the link above:]

> > > [initial posting:]

> > > " I was corresponding with a patient of Dr. Eugene Shippen (THE

> > > TESTOSTERONE SYNDROME) about Dr. Shippen's protocol.

Apparently his

> > > preferred method of testosterone replacement therapy in cases

where

> > > he otherwise might have tried pellets, creams or gels is now

> > > SUBCUTANEOUS testosterone injection. According to this

patient,

> > > unlike intramuscular injection, subcutaneous injection of a

small

> > > amount three times per week results in ultra stable levels and

low

> > > estrogen conversion. Apparently Shippen uses this method for

his own

> > > testosterone replacement. Not only does it work better than

even

> > > pellets apparently but it's dirt cheap compared to about any

other

> > > method.

> > >

> > > I was going to get pellets (hypopituitary) but now I wonder if

I

> > > should try this. I have two questions though:

> > >

> > > 1) Are there any studies on this method? I couldn't find any.

> > >

> > > 2) I don't doubt Shippen; the lab work of who knows how many

> > > patients would not lie. But if it works so well, why the HELL

wasn't

> > > this thought of and tested a long time ago?? It seems like

there is

> > > a big " DUH " factor here. "

> > >

> > > [A second posting:]

> > > " does he use free testosteorne? a suspension? does he used an

oil

> > > based ester? specifics please

> > >

> > > also, subQ injections are often more painful or lead to

> > > inflammation. if you ever have accidentally gotten a steroid

> > > injection into the subq instead of the muscle you would

understand "

> > >

> > > [A reply:]

> > > " I heard back from the patient of Dr. Shippen. He injects depo-

> > > testosterone 200mg/ml, .35 ml every 3 days into abdominal fat.

He

> > > splits the injections into two .18 ml injections which is .36

ml,

> > > and says this is because a tiny amount will leak out of the

> > > injection site.

> > >

> > > According to this patient, this dosing schedule leaves him

with a

> > > stable 900 ng/dl total testosterone level and none of the high

> > > estrogen conversion associated with large intramuscular

injection.

> > >

> > > Apparently Shippen is convinced enough that this is now his

> > > preferred method of TRT. I know he starts by trying to get

levels

> > > into the high normal range by trying to get the body to make

its

> > > own, but if TRT is called for apparently subcutaneous

injection is

> > > the first thing he prescribes. "

> > > [This appears to be 70mg every 3 days for a total of 163mg/wk]

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Well I did start doing my HCG shot in the belly but not just the skin I pinch a

fold and shoot. Doing this has my E2 down but I don't get much of a feeling of

well being like I do if I shoot into my thigh IM. But doing HCG into my belly

100 IU's everyday has me using a lot less Arimidex. Now I am only doing .5 mgs.

every 3 days the days I do my T shot. Was doing .5 mgs 2x's a day. Big

difference or the new batch of HCG I just started is not good.

Phil

theta_2k <pohare@...> wrote:

The IM in the thigh VS the sub-q in the belly:

Much less to no acne VS lots of acne on the back and upper arms.

Morning wood all day VS hit and miss morning wood.

Wonder if it not so much that there is more estrogen but that there is a better

ratio as the

IM injection of testosterone is better metabolized.

> >

> > I have this cut & paste of one of Dr. Shippen's men saying that Dr.

> > Shippen is doing his shots of T every 3 days. Are there any of his

> > guys out there doing this. Need to know how it is going here doing

> > this is keeping E2 down.

> > Phil

> >

> > http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?showtopic=8130

> >

> > [From the link above:]

> > [initial posting:]

> > " I was corresponding with a patient of Dr. Eugene Shippen (THE

> > TESTOSTERONE SYNDROME) about Dr. Shippen's protocol. Apparently his

> > preferred method of testosterone replacement therapy in cases where

> > he otherwise might have tried pellets, creams or gels is now

> > SUBCUTANEOUS testosterone injection. According to this patient,

> > unlike intramuscular injection, subcutaneous injection of a small

> > amount three times per week results in ultra stable levels and low

> > estrogen conversion. Apparently Shippen uses this method for his own

> > testosterone replacement. Not only does it work better than even

> > pellets apparently but it's dirt cheap compared to about any other

> > method.

> >

> > I was going to get pellets (hypopituitary) but now I wonder if I

> > should try this. I have two questions though:

> >

> > 1) Are there any studies on this method? I couldn't find any.

> >

> > 2) I don't doubt Shippen; the lab work of who knows how many

> > patients would not lie. But if it works so well, why the HELL wasn't

> > this thought of and tested a long time ago?? It seems like there is

> > a big " DUH " factor here. "

> >

> > [A second posting:]

> > " does he use free testosteorne? a suspension? does he used an oil

> > based ester? specifics please

> >

> > also, subQ injections are often more painful or lead to

> > inflammation. if you ever have accidentally gotten a steroid

> > injection into the subq instead of the muscle you would understand "

> >

> > [A reply:]

> > " I heard back from the patient of Dr. Shippen. He injects depo-

> > testosterone 200mg/ml, .35 ml every 3 days into abdominal fat. He

> > splits the injections into two .18 ml injections which is .36 ml,

> > and says this is because a tiny amount will leak out of the

> > injection site.

> >

> > According to this patient, this dosing schedule leaves him with a

> > stable 900 ng/dl total testosterone level and none of the high

> > estrogen conversion associated with large intramuscular injection.

> >

> > Apparently Shippen is convinced enough that this is now his

> > preferred method of TRT. I know he starts by trying to get levels

> > into the high normal range by trying to get the body to make its

> > own, but if TRT is called for apparently subcutaneous injection is

> > the first thing he prescribes. "

> > [This appears to be 70mg every 3 days for a total of 163mg/wk]

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I know what you mean but you need to stay on them I was dam sick for yrs.

because of high Estradiol. Here are some links you can show them.

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

http://www.smart-drugs.com/ias-estrogen.htm

http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcls-txt/t-prtcl-130.html

Just Tell them you want it tested your paying the dam bill. If you end up

being high and he will not give you anything for it your can try Indolplex/DIM

to get it down and keep it down.

http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html

Also any man on TRT should be taking Zinc/Copper this keeps you testis healthy

and helps keep E's down.

http://www.myvitanet.com/zincop100cnt.html

Any Dr. that knows about low T knows about the converson of T meds to

Estradiol. The brain can't tell the difference between T and E2 in the cells so

if you cells are full of E2 Estradiol your pissing you T meds down the drain.

When the cells are full of E2 there is no place for the T to go to do it's job.

It is all in the Lef. link.

Phil

magenta_1996 <no_reply > wrote:

I stopped doing sub-q injections because Dr. does not like it.

I had no problems at all, but could not find anything to disprove

what Dr. thought of sub-q injections.

However if it correct that Dr.Shippen ok'd them, then I will start

again as I felt better doing sub-q than I do doing IM.

As for getting my E's tested, forget it, the doctors I see have no

idea.................

Later.

> > >

> > > I have this cut & paste of one of Dr. Shippen's men saying

that Dr.

> > > Shippen is doing his shots of T every 3 days. Are there any of

his

> > > guys out there doing this. Need to know how it is going here

doing

> > > this is keeping E2 down.

> > > Phil

> > >

> > > http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?showtopic=8130

> > >

> > > [From the link above:]

> > > [initial posting:]

> > > " I was corresponding with a patient of Dr. Eugene Shippen (THE

> > > TESTOSTERONE SYNDROME) about Dr. Shippen's protocol.

Apparently his

> > > preferred method of testosterone replacement therapy in cases

where

> > > he otherwise might have tried pellets, creams or gels is now

> > > SUBCUTANEOUS testosterone injection. According to this

patient,

> > > unlike intramuscular injection, subcutaneous injection of a

small

> > > amount three times per week results in ultra stable levels and

low

> > > estrogen conversion. Apparently Shippen uses this method for

his own

> > > testosterone replacement. Not only does it work better than

even

> > > pellets apparently but it's dirt cheap compared to about any

other

> > > method.

> > >

> > > I was going to get pellets (hypopituitary) but now I wonder if

I

> > > should try this. I have two questions though:

> > >

> > > 1) Are there any studies on this method? I couldn't find any.

> > >

> > > 2) I don't doubt Shippen; the lab work of who knows how many

> > > patients would not lie. But if it works so well, why the HELL

wasn't

> > > this thought of and tested a long time ago?? It seems like

there is

> > > a big " DUH " factor here. "

> > >

> > > [A second posting:]

> > > " does he use free testosteorne? a suspension? does he used an

oil

> > > based ester? specifics please

> > >

> > > also, subQ injections are often more painful or lead to

> > > inflammation. if you ever have accidentally gotten a steroid

> > > injection into the subq instead of the muscle you would

understand "

> > >

> > > [A reply:]

> > > " I heard back from the patient of Dr. Shippen. He injects depo-

> > > testosterone 200mg/ml, .35 ml every 3 days into abdominal fat.

He

> > > splits the injections into two .18 ml injections which is .36

ml,

> > > and says this is because a tiny amount will leak out of the

> > > injection site.

> > >

> > > According to this patient, this dosing schedule leaves him

with a

> > > stable 900 ng/dl total testosterone level and none of the high

> > > estrogen conversion associated with large intramuscular

injection.

> > >

> > > Apparently Shippen is convinced enough that this is now his

> > > preferred method of TRT. I know he starts by trying to get

levels

> > > into the high normal range by trying to get the body to make

its

> > > own, but if TRT is called for apparently subcutaneous

injection is

> > > the first thing he prescribes. "

> > > [This appears to be 70mg every 3 days for a total of 163mg/wk]

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Sorry Phil, but I'm not in " America " and it does not matter who is

paying the bill as in some countries E testing is hard to get done

for males and Arimidex is not available for men, only ladies with

breast cancer.

How many years did it take you to find a doctor you could educate?

They only believe the dribble that some drug companies tell them, I

know nothing, I've only been self injecting for bloody years

Shit, I'm sick of trying to get one of these dumb shits to help me

and they don't read forums like this or Dr. s.............

Later.

> > > >

> > > > I have this cut & paste of one of Dr. Shippen's men saying

> that Dr.

> > > > Shippen is doing his shots of T every 3 days. Are there any

of

> his

> > > > guys out there doing this. Need to know how it is going here

> doing

> > > > this is keeping E2 down.

> > > > Phil

> > > >

> > > > http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?showtopic=8130

> > > >

> > > > [From the link above:]

> > > > [initial posting:]

> > > > " I was corresponding with a patient of Dr. Eugene Shippen

(THE

> > > > TESTOSTERONE SYNDROME) about Dr. Shippen's protocol.

> Apparently his

> > > > preferred method of testosterone replacement therapy in

cases

> where

> > > > he otherwise might have tried pellets, creams or gels is now

> > > > SUBCUTANEOUS testosterone injection. According to this

> patient,

> > > > unlike intramuscular injection, subcutaneous injection of a

> small

> > > > amount three times per week results in ultra stable levels

and

> low

> > > > estrogen conversion. Apparently Shippen uses this method for

> his own

> > > > testosterone replacement. Not only does it work better than

> even

> > > > pellets apparently but it's dirt cheap compared to about any

> other

> > > > method.

> > > >

> > > > I was going to get pellets (hypopituitary) but now I wonder

if

> I

> > > > should try this. I have two questions though:

> > > >

> > > > 1) Are there any studies on this method? I couldn't find any.

> > > >

> > > > 2) I don't doubt Shippen; the lab work of who knows how many

> > > > patients would not lie. But if it works so well, why the

HELL

> wasn't

> > > > this thought of and tested a long time ago?? It seems like

> there is

> > > > a big " DUH " factor here. "

> > > >

> > > > [A second posting:]

> > > > " does he use free testosteorne? a suspension? does he used

an

> oil

> > > > based ester? specifics please

> > > >

> > > > also, subQ injections are often more painful or lead to

> > > > inflammation. if you ever have accidentally gotten a steroid

> > > > injection into the subq instead of the muscle you would

> understand "

> > > >

> > > > [A reply:]

> > > > " I heard back from the patient of Dr. Shippen. He injects

depo-

> > > > testosterone 200mg/ml, .35 ml every 3 days into abdominal

fat.

> He

> > > > splits the injections into two .18 ml injections which

is .36

> ml,

> > > > and says this is because a tiny amount will leak out of the

> > > > injection site.

> > > >

> > > > According to this patient, this dosing schedule leaves him

> with a

> > > > stable 900 ng/dl total testosterone level and none of the

high

> > > > estrogen conversion associated with large intramuscular

> injection.

> > > >

> > > > Apparently Shippen is convinced enough that this is now his

> > > > preferred method of TRT. I know he starts by trying to get

> levels

> > > > into the high normal range by trying to get the body to make

> its

> > > > own, but if TRT is called for apparently subcutaneous

> injection is

> > > > the first thing he prescribes. "

> > > > [This appears to be 70mg every 3 days for a total of

163mg/wk]

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I have talked to guys in the UK and they have the same problem. They had all

the sines of high Estradiol but could not get it tested. And the ones that we

able to get it tested there Dr. would not give them anything to bring it down.

So here is what they did they ordered some Indolplex/DIM it took 3 to 4 weeks

for delivery.

http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html

http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

They started on one tablet a day because they had not test to go by. I told

them that when Estradiol " E2 " starts to come down there libido and morning wood

will come back. The thing you need to not do is go to low if you go to low you

will lose the morning wood and will not be able to get it up taking a pill. So

I told them when this happens stop the Indolplex/DIM until the wood and libido

comes back. Then go back on it but cut the tablet in half. They would keep

doing this until they found the right dose. Some were able to keep there E2

down using 1/4 of a tablet. So you can try this with out a blood test.

Phil

magenta_1996 <no_reply > wrote:

Sorry Phil, but I'm not in " America " and it does not matter who is

paying the bill as in some countries E testing is hard to get done

for males and Arimidex is not available for men, only ladies with

breast cancer.

How many years did it take you to find a doctor you could educate?

They only believe the dribble that some drug companies tell them, I

know nothing, I've only been self injecting for bloody years

Shit, I'm sick of trying to get one of these dumb shits to help me

and they don't read forums like this or Dr. s.............

Later.

> > > >

> > > > I have this cut & paste of one of Dr. Shippen's men saying

> that Dr.

> > > > Shippen is doing his shots of T every 3 days. Are there any

of

> his

> > > > guys out there doing this. Need to know how it is going here

> doing

> > > > this is keeping E2 down.

> > > > Phil

> > > >

> > > > http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?showtopic=8130

> > > >

> > > > [From the link above:]

> > > > [initial posting:]

> > > > " I was corresponding with a patient of Dr. Eugene Shippen

(THE

> > > > TESTOSTERONE SYNDROME) about Dr. Shippen's protocol.

> Apparently his

> > > > preferred method of testosterone replacement therapy in

cases

> where

> > > > he otherwise might have tried pellets, creams or gels is now

> > > > SUBCUTANEOUS testosterone injection. According to this

> patient,

> > > > unlike intramuscular injection, subcutaneous injection of a

> small

> > > > amount three times per week results in ultra stable levels

and

> low

> > > > estrogen conversion. Apparently Shippen uses this method for

> his own

> > > > testosterone replacement. Not only does it work better than

> even

> > > > pellets apparently but it's dirt cheap compared to about any

> other

> > > > method.

> > > >

> > > > I was going to get pellets (hypopituitary) but now I wonder

if

> I

> > > > should try this. I have two questions though:

> > > >

> > > > 1) Are there any studies on this method? I couldn't find any.

> > > >

> > > > 2) I don't doubt Shippen; the lab work of who knows how many

> > > > patients would not lie. But if it works so well, why the

HELL

> wasn't

> > > > this thought of and tested a long time ago?? It seems like

> there is

> > > > a big " DUH " factor here. "

> > > >

> > > > [A second posting:]

> > > > " does he use free testosteorne? a suspension? does he used

an

> oil

> > > > based ester? specifics please

> > > >

> > > > also, subQ injections are often more painful or lead to

> > > > inflammation. if you ever have accidentally gotten a steroid

> > > > injection into the subq instead of the muscle you would

> understand "

> > > >

> > > > [A reply:]

> > > > " I heard back from the patient of Dr. Shippen. He injects

depo-

> > > > testosterone 200mg/ml, .35 ml every 3 days into abdominal

fat.

> He

> > > > splits the injections into two .18 ml injections which

is .36

> ml,

> > > > and says this is because a tiny amount will leak out of the

> > > > injection site.

> > > >

> > > > According to this patient, this dosing schedule leaves him

> with a

> > > > stable 900 ng/dl total testosterone level and none of the

high

> > > > estrogen conversion associated with large intramuscular

> injection.

> > > >

> > > > Apparently Shippen is convinced enough that this is now his

> > > > preferred method of TRT. I know he starts by trying to get

> levels

> > > > into the high normal range by trying to get the body to make

> its

> > > > own, but if TRT is called for apparently subcutaneous

> injection is

> > > > the first thing he prescribes. "

> > > > [This appears to be 70mg every 3 days for a total of

163mg/wk]

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >