Re: Question on Essiac

[Guest guest]

I've been using it since I was diagnosed last year. Overall my health has been a bit better, and my white count has been holding below where it was when I was diagnosed. But I can't prove it was the Essiac that did it. I rather suspect it is like the green tea question, it might help some but not others. I've also changed my diet a bit, so I don't know why I am doing OK. I might have been like I am now even if I did nothing.

Sylvia

From: tippy2473 <mistywateryorkies@...>Subject: Question on Essiac Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 5:18 PM

Has anyone use this and do they know if it helps? Thanks

[Guest guest]

re: " I might have been like I am now even if I did nothing. "

Which sums up nicely why personal accounts are not evidence and why controls are

needed in clinical trials.

For Essiac, another big issue is lack of scientific plausiblity. In short,

unfortunately, most food compounds (at food-level doses) that do not cause side

effects are unlikely to have meaningful treatment effects on tumor cells in the

body.

Step one in the clinical phase of testing new agents for cancer is to determine

a safe dose at which there is signficant blood levels of the active compound

(could be activity) ... See also What's a drug

http://www.lymphomation.org/What_is_drug.htm

All the best,

Karl

>  

> Sylvia 

>

>

> Has anyone use this and do they know if it helps? Thanks

>

[Guest guest]

Herb-care.com also sells it. It's cert organic and called Ojibwa tea. About

$90 a lb. I order their pau d'arco. I've emailed them as well. They're good

to do business with.

Louise

From: Noto Chemo

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010

I thought I sent this email but did not see it go to the site.  I'm trying again

- someone directed me to healthfreedom.org where essiac is sold at $149 a pound

- apparently, the difference is such that it includes the roots - I have been

paying a lot less, a lot less, by buying loose from an herbal shop and the sheep

sorrel is powdered so I don't know if it is leaves or what.

If anyone has anything to share on this, it would be very much appreciated.  

Thank you,

Siewleng

[Guest guest]

Do you know if it matters that the sheep sorrel must include leaves, stems and

roots?  Apparently, the price of $149 a pound is because their sheep sorrel

includes the whole plant.Does anybody else know anything about this?

Thank you._________________________

Herb-care.com also sells it.  It's cert organic and called Ojibwa tea.  About

$90 a lb.  I order their pau d'arco.  I've emailed them as well.  They're good

to do business with.

Louise

[Guest guest]

Supposedly there's a Dr. Chester Stock at Sloan Kettering who did experiments on

sheep sorrel (whole plant) and confirmed through these experiments that this was

true. These internet websites are notorious for " cutting and pasting "

statements without verifying whether or not they are true. If you google his

name and sheep sorrel, you'll get a lot of hits. I just can't find any that

will verify whether this is true or not. Maybe someone on here has a way to

verify if he did actually experiment or if he even exists?

Louise

[Guest guest]

Organic sheep sorrel is available at:

http://www.wildroots.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=sheep+sorrel & x=6 & y=\

13

$17.80 per pound.

I wonder what kind of value-added fable a marketeer would concoct to

justify $149 per pound.

At 08:27 AM 1/26/2010, you wrote:

>

>Do you know if it matters that the sheep sorrel must include leaves,

>stems and roots? Apparently, the price of $149 a pound is because

>their sheep sorrel includes the whole plant.Does anybody else know

>anything about this?

>Thank you._________________________

>

>Herb-care.com also sells it. It's cert organic and called Ojibwa

>tea. About $90 a lb. I order their pau d'arco. I've emailed them

>as well. They're good to do business with.

>

>Louise

[Guest guest]

All - there was a report some years ago that most sheep sorrel on the

market comes from China, and is actually not sheep sorrel at all, but a

different but similar plant. Unknown of the truthfulness of that report,

but maybe ask your suppliers where their sheep sorrel is from. Sheep

sorrel seems to grow nicely as weeds in my garden in So. Calif. (if it

really is sheep sorrel.) We use it in salads. My herbologist grows most

of his own plants, so I am pretty confident of his products (teasel for

example..)

-Dave

On 1/26/2010 10:41:14 AM, VGammill (vgammill@...) wrote:

> Organic sheep sorrel is available at:

> http://www.wildroots.com/advanced_search_result.

> php?keywords=sheep+sorrel & x=6 & y=13

> $17.80 per pound.

>

> I wonder what kind of value-added fable a marketeer would concoct to

> justify $149 per pound.

>

>

>

> At 08:27 AM 1/26/2010, you wrote:

> >

> >Do you know if it matters that the sheep sorrel must include leaves,

> >stems and roots? Apparently, the price of $149 a pound is because

> >their sheep sorrel includes the whole plant.Does anybody else know

> >anything about this

[Guest guest]

Makes 'big pharma' look like choir boys.

I only wish I had their moral scruples (not that I would know what to do with

the bucks they are trying to rake in). Parting fools from their money.

Anyone know anyone who has been cured using Essiac classic, 8, or lite? And

there's the stuff Walmart sells " Made in Canada " and endorsed by the ghost of

Nurse What's her name. May not cure you, but you'll be too bussed to care

thanks to the alcohol base; I have visions of Cher

(http://www.poemhunter.com/song/gypsies-tramps-and-thieves/).

I've been taking it for near two years now. Make my own, original recipe, few

dollars a pound, herbs from wild mountain rose (or something like that). Good

for bulk. Also doing the Budwig thing. Still slowly departing.

Find my early posts, about a year or so back on Flaxseedoil2.

Re. the root thing. Burdock root. and nothing but the root, is by far the main

constituent of Essiac. I grew up eating sheep sorrel. The roots are a few

inches long, fibrous, and contain more nutrients in the soil clinging to them

than in the rather tasteless root itself. Slippery Elm, last I heard, bark

doesn't come with roots. Turkey rhubarb, that's your homework.

Having to continually, and repeatedly, sift through the same ... is killing me.

Is there not a space for intelligent and knowledgeable presentation?

A repository of nearest to source information?

Most of us will die right on schedule. Cancer is either relatively fast or very

slow. Often up and down no matter what the treatment. All the celeb trips to

Mexico or Germany - end result Death right on schedule.

So why can we not cut the noise and develop a good data base of illness

progression/remission, treatment protocol, with patient history (age, sex,

height, weight, lifestyle, etc.)

Mike Murray

P.S. Sat in on a couple of pre-pub research presentation seminars at Columbia

Medical a few days ago. The allo boys might have some great stuff in about

twenty years if they can just stop those sneaky cancer cells from mutating every

time they take a chemo hit.

>

> I thought I sent this email but did not see it go to the site. I'm trying

again - someone directed me to healthfreedom.org where essiac is sold at $149 a

pound - apparently, the difference is such that it includes the roots - I have

been paying a lot less, a lot less, by buying loose from an herbal shop and the

sheep sorrel is powdered so I don't know if it is leaves or what.

> If anyone has anything to share on this, it would be very much appreciated.

> Thank you,

> Siewleng

>

[Guest guest]

Essiac's a great detoxifier, and it has some efficacy against cancer,

but I doubt any Essiac product has a high success rate w/cancer.

My 1st choice of Essiac products by far would be

Detox Plus Formula by

www.aloelife.com/ezStore123/DTProductZoom.asp?productID=18

(www.harvesthealth.com/allifterhera.html has ingredients list and discounted

prices)

primarily because it also contains (in addition to Essiac)

aloe, cat’s claw, American ginseng, red clover, milk thistle, astragalus, pau

d’arco (all of which are powerfully cancer-healing), as well as chamomile and

colloidal silver.

[Guest guest]

A friend of ours from church took Essiac for his prostate cancer,

he's fine now, NO CANCER!!!

Barbara

[Guest guest]

Hi Leonard,

Are you familiar with he Essiac Tea available at

www.affordable-essiac-tea.com?

If not, let me know what you think, after checking it out. This was recommended

by an ND.

Nili

[ ] Re: Question on Essiac

Essiac's a great detoxifier, and it has some efficacy against cancer,

but I doubt any Essiac product has a high success rate w/cancer.

My 1st choice of Essiac products by far would be

Detox Plus Formula by

www.aloelife.com/ezStore123/DTProductZoom.asp?productID=18

(www.harvesthealth.com/allifterhera.html has ingredients list and discounted

prices)

primarily because it also contains (in addition to Essiac)

aloe, cat’s claw, American ginseng, red clover, milk thistle, astragalus,

pau d’arco (all of which are powerfully cancer-healing), as well as chamomile

and colloidal silver.

[Guest guest]

Hello Ray,

I will relate to the group something a friend told me a few months back. It was

in passing as we were discussing the state of health care/competence here in

Canada. My buddy and I are both sixty.

His dad is in his late eighties and going strong. The old guy was diagnosed

with prostate seventeen years ago and told that he would be dead within a few

years. Still has pc, still alive. Was in for his annual a few months back, the

doc now has a helper trainee doc(latest thing in system tinkering as doc

shortage and burnout increases). Funny longish story; cut to the chase, young

fellow confers with old doc, old doc reminded by old gug that old doc make

original declaration, both docs shocked old guy still going strong. Old guy's

secret; cleaned up bad eating habits and de-stressed. No complex, and costly,

regime of pills (a pill by any other name is still a pill - the American* answer

to everything).

A year or so back a major government funded prostate study was published.

Participants were early stage,

protocol was diet (semi-veg, akin to 's findings; and, disregarding the

small meat allowance, quite similar to Budwig meals), light exercise, and some

Vit. C. (must have some pill)

Findings: progression stopped to reversed in nearly all cases.

I posted pointers to the press releases and the full study on flaxseedoil2 at

the time.

[Guest guest]

Do you know what else he did?

How advanced was the cancer?

Mike

bk4529@... wrote:

>

>

> A friend of ours from church took Essiac for his prostate cancer,

> he's fine now, NO CANCER!!!

> Barbara

[Guest guest]

The discussion on Prostate Cancer cannot be answered in 'general' ways. It is

pretty well established that most Prostate cancers do not kill the people

afflicted because when autopsies are done on advanced aged men, they find that

most have signs of Prostate Cancer.

Early stage Prostate cancers, unless revealing 'aggressive' attributes, are very

often 'Watchful waiting' situations where no treatment is given.

It is doubtful that any of us on this list would follow those suggestions

without at least doing something that has apparent benefits. I have had high

PSA numbers, ranging from 7 + originally to as high as 10 and up and down since

then as low as 6 and hovering around 8. However, the Free PSA, a more

reliable test, has improved. I have no idea whether or not I have Prostate

Cancer and have never allowed a biopsy though I believe one was done when a

Bladder Re-section was done 5 years ago. My prostate started acting up about

14 years ago.

When one discusses Prostate Cancer, understand this is usually very different

from discussing the other more deadly types.

Though there is some new thinking by the Allopathic system that some Breast

Cancers might also provide for 'Watchful Waiting', it is doubtful that anyone

with Lung, Esophageal, Liver etc., cancers would be inclined towards 'Watchful

Waiting'. With the heavy emphasis (Physician pressure) on heavy treatment it

would take a different type of person to do 'watchful waiting' after a cancer

diagnosis. Most of us remember the shock upon diagnosis.

Imagine the benefit if these people had Alternative Practitioners that knew

what worked and what didn't that could help them wither their watchful waiting?

Joe C.

[Guest guest]

This is what I am trying to get at. What I expect is that people stop blindly

following their professional. Know what is going into the body , and why.

Demand to know what is to be the expected consequence. Make detailed notes;

make them available to the world.

As for big 'C' cancer, been there done that. As for now, I don't consider the

current two any big deal. Having given the chop out the thyroid, hack out a big

chunk of liver ('it grows back'), and downing a glass of glow in the dark

iodine, or die a death by chocking, option a pass; I'm not doing a watch and

wait, and I'm not buying into the big business alternative con either.

mikeM

Joe wrote:

> Imagine the benefit if these people had Alternative Practitioners that knew

what worked and what didn't that could help them wither their watchful waiting?

>

> Joe C.

[Guest guest]

I am of native ancestry and right now am visiting my family in the Yukon. My

sister-in-law took me out the other day and we peeled some balsam bark off the

trees. She also has caribou weed that I boiled up with the bark....tasted quite

ok with a bit of sugar (just because I did not bring any stevia). The Indian

Medicine is not to be sold for profit or sold at all. It is to be given away.

I know in this world with so much cancer this is nearly impossible. My problem

with these people selling bottled Essiac is that they are doing it purely for

profit. Here in Canada, Essiac, 4 or 8 herb is $40 a bottle, which is

outrageous. A bottle only lasts a week.

As for the caribou weed, I found 1 website that called it wormwood (artemesia)

by another name. There are many anectodal stories up here of people who drank

it and cured their cancers. I'm sure like all substances, it's not 100%

effective. When it is boiled with balsam bark, it is even more effective. I'm

taking some home to with me.

If I had a Medicine Man sitting with me right now, he'd even say to me putting

it on here is " forbidden " . I guess they are supposed to share their medicine

" face to face " but in this electronic age I'd think it ok.

Louise

[Guest guest]

mmurra777 I believe you are so right about Diet, and prostate cancer. I have

had prostate cancer for over 18 years now, I had a PSA of between 3 to 4 for 15

years it went really bad when I had a prostate biopsy. after this, within one

year, I ended up in a lot of pain with prostate bone metastasis and my prostate

half way into my bladder. but since 2008 I have been on a diet of no sugary

foods, no bread, limited fruit, I'm fine now. My prostate is all most normal

size. and all the lumps are gone. I still take vitamin supplements though I

took Zeolite. I think that's what knocked out my prostate Bone metastasis, but

yes, I think diet is very important for any cancer. Cheers Ray

From: mmurra777

Hello Ray,

I will relate to the group something a friend told me a few months back. It was

in passing as we were discussing the state of health care/competence here in

Canada. My buddy and I are both sixty.

His dad is in his late eighties and going strong. The old guy was diagnosed with

prostate seventeen years ago and told that he would be dead within a few years.

Still has pc, still alive. Was in for his annual a few months back, the doc now

has a helper trainee doc(latest thing in system tinkering as doc shortage and

burnout increases). Funny longish story; cut to the chase, young fellow confers

with old doc, old doc reminded by old gug that old doc make original

declaration, both docs shocked old guy still going strong. Old guy's secret;

cleaned up bad eating habits and de-stressed. No complex, and costly, regime of

pills (a pill by any other name is still a pill - the American* answer to

everything).

A year or so back a major government funded prostate study was published.

Participants were early stage, protocol was diet (semi-veg, akin to 's

findings; and, disregarding the small meat allowance, quite similar to Budwig

meals), light exercise, and some Vit. C. (must have some pill)Findings:

progression stopped to reversed in nearly all cases.

I posted pointers to the press releases and the full study on flaxseedoil2 at

the time.

[Guest guest]

Joe prostate cancer is the deadly type. the reason it dos not grow as fast as

other cancer is it inside the prostate, and it is because the fluid in the

prostrate are aniline, that the cancer is slow growing, but once out side the

prostate it a different story. it will grow any were where there is a low blood

supply where the immune system cant get at it easy, like in bone and the lymph

nodes, it a killer, mine out side the prostrate I ended up with Prostate Bone

metastasis but I'm find now cheers Ray

From: Joe Castron

The discussion on Prostate Cancer cannot be answered in 'general' ways. It is

pretty well established that most Prostate cancers do not kill the people

afflicted because when autopsies are done on advanced aged men, they find that

most have signs of Prostate Cancer.

Early stage Prostate cancers, unless revealing 'aggressive' attributes, are very

often 'Watchful waiting' situations where no treatment is given.

It is doubtful that any of us on this list would follow those suggestions

without at least doing something that has apparent benefits. I have had high PSA

numbers, ranging from 7 + originally to as high as 10 and up and down since then

as low as 6 and hovering around 8. However, the Free PSA, a more reliable test,

has improved. I have no idea whether or not I have Prostate Cancer and have

never allowed a biopsy though I believe one was done when a Bladder Re-section

was done 5 years ago. My prostate started acting up about 14 years ago.

When one discusses Prostate Cancer, understand this is usually very different

from discussing the other more deadly types.

Though there is some new thinking by the Allopathic system that some Breast

Cancers might also provide for 'Watchful Waiting', it is doubtful that anyone

with Lung, Esophageal, Liver etc., cancers would be inclined towards 'Watchful

Waiting'. With the heavy emphasis (Physician pressure) on heavy treatment it

would take a different type of person to do 'watchful waiting' after a cancer

diagnosis. Most of us remember the shock upon diagnosis.

Imagine the benefit if these people had Alternative Practitioners that knew what

worked and what didn't that could help them wither their watchful waiting?

Joe C.

[Guest guest]

Barbara, I have a few questions:

1. How did he know that he has No cancer? What tests to confirm it?

2. What was his PSA, Gleason score before his taking Essiac?

3. How long has he on Essiac?

4. What was his daily dosage?

5. Which brand of Essiac did you take? Please give a website to buy it.

Thanks.

Jim

In a message dated 1/31/2010 10:03:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

bk4529@... writes:

A friend of ours from church took Essiac for his prostate cancer,

he's fine now, NO CANCER!!!

Barbara

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

Being native American (Cherokee) all that you said is true!

Donna ACS

>

> I am of native ancestry and right now am visiting my family in the

> Yukon. My sister-in-law took me out the other day and we peeled some

> balsam bark off the trees. She also has caribou weed that I boiled up

> with the bark....tasted quite ok with a bit of sugar (just because I

> did not bring any stevia). The Indian Medicine is not to be sold for

> profit or sold at all. It is to be given away. I know in this world

> with so much cancer this is nearly impossible. My problem with these

> people selling bottled Essiac is that they are doing it purely for

> profit. Here in Canada, Essiac, 4 or 8 herb is $40 a bottle, which is

> outrageous. A bottle only lasts a week.

>

> As for the caribou weed, I found 1 website that called it wormwood

> (artemesia) by another name. There are many anectodal stories up here

> of people who drank it and cured their cancers. I'm sure like all

> substances, it's not 100% effective. When it is boiled with balsam

> bark, it is even more effective. I'm taking some home to with me.

>

> If I had a Medicine Man sitting with me right now, he'd even say to me

> putting it on here is " forbidden " . I guess they are supposed to share

> their medicine " face to face " but in this electronic age I'd think it ok.

>

> Louise

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here is a website that I was given by my naturopath

www.affordable-essiac-tea.com

I have not ordered from them yet. Does anyone know anything about them?

[Guest guest]

Hi mmurra777 I'm close to 60, I'm 57. I truly think diet is a major part of

stopping cancer. and from getting it started in the first place I have been

reading a theories that cancers like prostate cancer and Breast cancer, dos not

start in the primary cancer site. like the prostate or the breast, but comes

from else were in the body. That some time in our lives we do some thing to

really weakening our immune system. then add to this a diet rich in the

processed sugary foods that cancer loves to eat, the weakened immune system

just gets overwhelmed from just too many cancer cells, The cancer cells then are

able to find a way into prostate tissues or breast tissue and turn these tissues

into cancer cell tissues but it just a theories. all the best Cheers Ray

From: mmurra777

Hello Ray,

I will relate to the group something a friend told me a few months back. It was

in passing as we were discussing the state of health care/competence here in

Canada. My buddy and I are both sixty.

His dad is in his late eighties and going strong. The old guy was diagnosed with

prostate seventeen years ago and told that he would be dead within a few years.

Still has pc, still alive.....Old guy's secret; cleaned up bad eating habits and

de-stressed. No complex, and costly, regime of pills (a pill by any other name

is still a pill - the American* answer to everything)...

[Guest guest]

The original Essiac is only 4 ingredients, not eight.

>

> Here is a website that I was given by my naturopath

> www.affordable-essiac-tea.com

> I have not ordered from them yet. Does anyone know anything about them?

>

[Guest guest]

" Nili Gitig " <ngitig@...> wrote:

> www.affordable-essiac-tea.com

Its list of ingredients is identical to Flor-Essence, which I think is better

than standard Essiac but which is generally only modestly effective in healing

cancer.

[Guest guest]

Leonard,

One program participant told me that Flor-Essence creme was extremely

effective in protecting and healing her skin when she did

radiation. There are few things that can do this.

At 07:11 AM 2/1/2010, you wrote:

>

>

> " Nili Gitig " <ngitig@...> wrote:

> > www.affordable-essiac-tea.com

>

>Its list of ingredients is identical to Flor-Essence, which I think

>is better than standard Essiac but which is generally only modestly

>effective in healing cancer.