Re: A bit frustrated - so ask for more support

[Guest guest]

Hi

Whilst partly understanding your frustrations I do feel you should feel you

are having a bad time and when you feel a bit better you will want to help

others who are perhaps not so ill as yourself. There are few groups like

this one and if we share each others problems we are of benefit to many. If

you feel you need more support then say so and ask for more support from us

but please do not deprive some others from the mutual help. Chronic illness

is frustrating.

When I was an undergrad a senior professor was giving a lecture and some

students near the bad complained they could not here the professor and could

he speak louder. The professor (already a Dean of Science) speaking in a

large lecture hall with only say 30 students remark. No, you will find if

you bring yourself nearer the front I can speak at the same level but you

will hear so much better. I think this is such a case now. You are quite

rightly wanted and needing support and help. If you send emails and those

with similar problems then you will find there are far more emails from what

you term " Emergency room level " than those you term less critical: Voila, I

hope!

Take care

A bit frustrated

>I absolutely love this group. But sometimes I find myself frustrated.

>I have been diagnosed with idiopathic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism.

>Yes, there are a lot of things we have in common with each other, but

>I am really sick of people here who always had normal testicles and

>because of age have a drop in testosterone levels when people like me

>have had, and will have this forever. What I am trying to say is,

>sometimes the really important messages get diluted amongst all the

>cry babies with a low libido.

>

>I hope I am not offending anyone, but it's like putting emergency

>room

>patients with those who have strep throat. Isn't it possible to

>categorize this forum along specifici problems, such as low

>testosterone, Klinefelters, etc etc.??

>

>Thanks.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank You for your point. Yes, chronic disease is hard. All I am

saying is I am just a little frustrated with going through dozens of

posts with people with insignificant problems who can't get it up

and all the pertinent information I need gets diluted in the

numbers. I am sorry, but if you had normal testicular function all

your life, normal size, normal puberty, normal relationship life

without thougts of suicide, and if you have kids, and CAN have kids,

and now you are 60 and old Jimmy doesn't want to cooperate, don't

you dare put yourself on the same position as a person with

Klinefelters, or hypo.

Your classroom analogy is a fitting one. But what happens when you

can't hear the instructor teach about the class because some of your

classmates will not stop shouting??

I love this group. But I am not sure if it is serving me anymore.

There is just an explosion of messages, it's not categorized, you

have to go through dozens of messages to find what you need. That's

all I am saying. Maybe it's just a logistics issue. We should all

move to a more web-portal based setting.

As for suffering, please. A gunshot wound to the head and strep

throat are not the same thing. And don't give me that all pain is

relative crap

> Hi

>

> Whilst partly understanding your frustrations I do feel you should

feel you

> are having a bad time and when you feel a bit better you will want

to help

> others who are perhaps not so ill as yourself. There are few

groups like

> this one and if we share each others problems we are of benefit to

many. If

> you feel you need more support then say so and ask for more

support from us

> but please do not deprive some others from the mutual help.

Chronic illness

> is frustrating.

>

> When I was an undergrad a senior professor was giving a lecture

and some

> students near the bad complained they could not here the professor

and could

> he speak louder. The professor (already a Dean of Science)

speaking in a

> large lecture hall with only say 30 students remark. No, you will

find if

> you bring yourself nearer the front I can speak at the same level

but you

> will hear so much better. I think this is such a case now. You are

quite

> rightly wanted and needing support and help. If you send emails

and those

> with similar problems then you will find there are far more emails

from what

> you term " Emergency room level " than those you term less critical:

Voila, I

> hope!

>

> Take care

>

>

> A bit frustrated

>

>

> >I absolutely love this group. But sometimes I find myself

frustrated.

> >I have been diagnosed with idiopathic hypogonadotropic

hypogonadism.

> >Yes, there are a lot of things we have in common with each other,

but

> >I am really sick of people here who always had normal testicles

and

> >because of age have a drop in testosterone levels when people

like me

> >have had, and will have this forever. What I am trying to say is,

> >sometimes the really important messages get diluted amongst all

the

> >cry babies with a low libido.

> >

> >I hope I am not offending anyone, but it's like putting emergency

> >room

> >patients with those who have strep throat. Isn't it possible to

> >categorize this forum along specifici problems, such as low

> >testosterone, Klinefelters, etc etc.??

> >

> >Thanks.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 12:31:24 -0000, you wrote:

>I love this group. But I am not sure if it is serving me anymore.

>There is just an explosion of messages, it's not categorized, you

>have to go through dozens of messages to find what you need. That's

>all I am saying. Maybe it's just a logistics issue. We should all

>move to a more web-portal based setting.

You can set these up to be delivered by e-mail and then filter more

etc. I find the web based method unusable.

That said, you should find yourself a klinefelters group. You

shouldn't be letting your frustrations lead you to telling other

people their problems don't matter as much as yours.

Lack of T is life threatening in many ways. At what ever stage of

life.

We could as easily say there are a lot of things worse in the world

than klinfelters.

This group is about support. If you want more support ask for it. Ask

questions, start threads, read the responses.

But I think it's inappropriate to complain others are getting the

information they ask for or need.

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 17:55:35 -0000, you wrote:

>I acknowledge that no 2 cases of hypo will ever be alike, but I'd

>want to reach more to people like me, at least in my general age

>group, especially for the psychology if nothing else. I am sorry, I

>may be too harsh, but I have no sympathy for you if you have

>children and tell me how tough you have it when I only have a 50%

>chance. Likewise, I understand if you have no sympathy for me if

>your chance is 0.

>

>Basically I am pointing out to the limitations of the group

>and just wished that all of us could go to a more portal based web

>which allowed for more categorization, and profiling. Just think, we

>all go on line, fill out an anonymous profile that can be searched,

>so we find people who are more like us. So we can still have a

>public discussion, but with those people who are closer to our

>situation. Hope I make sense. If not, that's cool too. But you guys

>are welcome to e-mail me if you want to touch base.

OR . .

You could simply start your own group devoted entirely to

klinefelters.

Or use this one:

klinetriplogroup/

or this one

klinefelter/

or this one:

livingwithklinefelter/

or this one:

KlinefelterMales/

or this one:

klinefelter_syndrome/

19 :

search?query=klinefelter & sc=-1 & sg=10 & ss=1

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 18:36:30 -0000, you wrote:

>Somebody always has it worse than ourselves, we are alive do not have

>cancer, MS, are not crippled, are not starving to death in the Sudan,

>and are not being tortured to death in some hellhole.

I've always loved Arlo Guthrie's story of the last man. He's the guy

who's got it worse than everyone else and get point to someone else

who has it worse to feel better about himself.

But only slightly more seriously - as some motivational speaker I saws

said " The wake doesn't drive the boat. "

Meaning - Where you come from doesn't determine where you are going to

go. You can look back at the wake of where you've been and complain,

or you can look ahead and plot a course for yourself.

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

[Guest guest]

I think this is a good thing you brought up- because the board is

supposed to help the members. Yes, I find the portal is not

the most efficient for me to follow the threads I am interested in.

If the focus of the group was narrowed, you might not have to filter

through what is not relevant to your needs. There is another

Hypogonadism group, though I'm not sure what their charter is like.

There are 'masters bodybuilding' websites for middle

aged 'andropause' guys to discuss their needs. What topics do you

envision if you had a portal that gave you the most support?

Genetic testing? Discusing puberty concerns / frustrations?

Current research into classical hypogonadism?

For me, I guess every case is along a grey area spectrum, but I had

a pseudo-normal puberty (small frame, late bloomer), but was

depressed, romantically frustrated, suicidal, substance abusing, and

began having memory problems in college- kind of a downward trend

that took 10 years before it became obvious it was low T at 31.

Plus dad had hypogonadal symptoms, and left when I was 9- didn't

give a sh_t when I was suicidal and mom called him to see if he

could help. I'll get over this eventually now that I feel like a

man finally, but it is a lonely feeling that you feel like noone

understands what you've been through. Lately I spend a fair amount

of time now crying and just staring off into space- but I know it

can only get better from here.

For me it IS like a gunshot wound to the head, but I'm not going to

argue my suffering is more important than a 60 yo

with 'andropause'. Each case is unique, but even some of the older

guys here have had some very, very devestating stories with

hypogonadism in mid life.

[Guest guest]

One of my counselors gave me the following to think about, and I hope

it is something you can think about:

1) Say you have something happen to you that wasn't fair (in our case,

hypogonadism).

2) You meet a guy who had something not fair happen to him (lost a

business, wife cheated on him, etc).

3) You can argue till you are blue in the face that your pain is

greater than his, and he may never agree with you. His friends will

say " yes, you had a medical condition, but you can get it treated.

His wife was screwing the pool boy while the kids were in the other

room watching Barney. You can't compare your suffering to his, his

life is ruined. "

4) Reducto ad absurdem: Instead of the above example, you meet a guy

who thinks his hang-nail has caused greater suffering, and all his

buddies agree and come up with arguments to that effect.

5) Why waste your time arguing with him, or even the guy who got

cheated on? Rather, find supportive people who will listen to your

problems non-judgementally and get on with making a good life for

yourself. If not, you are just looking for pity. I am truly sorry

for whatever pains you have experienced, cause I have probably been

there. We are here to help.

Dano

> As for suffering, please. A gunshot wound to the head and strep

> throat are not the same thing. And don't give me that all pain is

> relative crap

>

[Guest guest]

I believe there is a group specifically for men with erectile

issues. I have been a member of this group for about a year and a half

or so and I have never expected that all or even a majority of the

members had similar life experiences with hypogonadism as mine. We are

all very very different with varying degrees of H. Some like me have

suffered their entire life with it, and some guys come just recently

diagnosed with H and are just starting or contemplating Testosterone

replacement. I think it is unfair to expect that those with still

normal testicles but beginning H limit their concerns by posting less

frequently out of respect to those with hard core H who do not want to

hear their " lesser " problems. I suppose one could form their own

group with only H issues similar to their own. Membership would be

quite limited I suspect, and perhaps worse is the fact that those who

are new to H would not benefit from the experiences of the hard core

group. I like this forum the way it is right now, and I don't consider

it any inconvenience to wade through posts that don't necessarily mimic

my situation. I sympathise with anyone with H.

norton

[Guest guest]

By no means am I trying to muzzle the opinions or the input of

others...absolutely not. All I am saying is that as a 30 year old

male with Hypo (diagnosed in 1998), testosterone induced puberty,

pre-pubertal size testicles, 50% chance of fathering children,

gynecomastia, I will probably relate more to people who are closer

to my situation than let's say a 55 year old guy, who had normal

puberty, full testicles, 2 kids, and now is experiencing low

testosterone. That's just an example, not picking on those guys.

I acknowledge that no 2 cases of hypo will ever be alike, but I'd

want to reach more to people like me, at least in my general age

group, especially for the psychology if nothing else. I am sorry, I

may be too harsh, but I have no sympathy for you if you have

children and tell me how tough you have it when I only have a 50%

chance. Likewise, I understand if you have no sympathy for me if

your chance is 0.

Basically I am pointing out to the limitations of the group

and just wished that all of us could go to a more portal based web

which allowed for more categorization, and profiling. Just think, we

all go on line, fill out an anonymous profile that can be searched,

so we find people who are more like us. So we can still have a

public discussion, but with those people who are closer to our

situation. Hope I make sense. If not, that's cool too. But you guys

are welcome to e-mail me if you want to touch base.

zeybek@...

> I believe there is a group specifically for men with

erectile

> issues. I have been a member of this group for about a year and a

half

> or so and I have never expected that all or even a majority of the

> members had similar life experiences with hypogonadism as mine. We

are

> all very very different with varying degrees of H. Some like me

have

> suffered their entire life with it, and some guys come just

recently

> diagnosed with H and are just starting or contemplating

Testosterone

> replacement. I think it is unfair to expect that those with still

> normal testicles but beginning H limit their concerns by posting

less

> frequently out of respect to those with hard core H who do not

want to

> hear their " lesser " problems. I suppose one could form their own

> group with only H issues similar to their own. Membership would

be

> quite limited I suspect, and perhaps worse is the fact that those

who

> are new to H would not benefit from the experiences of the hard

core

> group. I like this forum the way it is right now, and I don't

consider

> it any inconvenience to wade through posts that don't necessarily

mimic

> my situation. I sympathise with anyone with H.

> norton

[Guest guest]

---<zeybek@h...> wrote:

> By no means am I trying to muzzle the opinions or the input of

> others...absolutely not. All I am saying is that as a 30 year old

> male with Hypo (diagnosed in 1998), testosterone induced puberty,

> pre-pubertal size testicles, 50% chance of fathering children,

> gynecomastia, I will probably relate more to people who are closer

> to my situation than let's say a 55 year old guy, who had normal

> puberty, full testicles, 2 kids, and now is experiencing low

> testosterone. That's just an example, not picking on those guys.

>

> I acknowledge that no 2 cases of hypo will ever be alike, but I'd

> want to reach more to people like me, at least in my general age

> group, especially for the psychology if nothing else. I am sorry, I

> may be too harsh, but I have no sympathy for you if you have

> children and tell me how tough you have it when I only have a 50%

> chance. Likewise, I understand if you have no sympathy for me if

> your chance is 0.

>

> Basically I am pointing out to the limitations of the group

> and just wished that all of us could go to a more portal based web

> which allowed for more categorization, and profiling. Just think,

we

> all go on line, fill out an anonymous profile that can be searched,

> so we find people who are more like us. So we can still have a

> public discussion, but with those people who are closer to our

> situation. Hope I make sense. If not, that's cool too. But you guys

> are welcome to e-mail me if you want to touch base.

>

> zeybek@h.

------------------------

I think I know exactly what you are saying. And you are in better

shape than I am! I could not go through puberty at all. I had the

body of a 10 year old at age 20 when in desparation I went to a

doctor at the college I was attending and got human growth hormone

shots to induce puberty, went through it in six months with virtually

no testicle develpment, and have been on testosterone ever since.

You have a 50% chance of fathering children? That is 50% better

chance than I ever had. My testicles never produced any sperm, and

yes I do have sympathy for you, because I know better than you may

think what you are going through. I gave up feeling sorry for myself

about five years ago, yes it took me some 40 years to learn to deal

with it without antidepressants, anger managment, and hating myself.

Somebody always has it worse than ourselves, we are alive do not have

cancer, MS, are not crippled, are not starving to death in the Sudan,

and are not being tortured to death in some hellhole. I have maybe

some 25 years left to live and I am through feeling sorry for myself.

My point is, you are still a young guy and going through what I went

through, and not as bad as I did, so ask away if you have questions,

and know that you are NOT alone, that I know who you are and how you

feel, and I love you because you are " special " , like me!

norton

[Guest guest]

I think your argument is ridiculous. This group is perfectly fine as

is. Go start your own group if you're not happy. It's worth a shot.

Vornan and myself started a group soley devoted to long-term sexual

dysfunction from taking SSRIs (which can cause low T), and in a

short time we've obtained over 150 members.

You're complaining about people with various types of hypo and

symptoms who are seeking help, making new friends, and getting

better. Give me a break.

DK

> > I believe there is a group specifically for men with

> erectile

> > issues. I have been a member of this group for about a year and

a

> half

> > or so and I have never expected that all or even a majority of

the

> > members had similar life experiences with hypogonadism as mine.

We

> are

> > all very very different with varying degrees of H. Some like me

> have

> > suffered their entire life with it, and some guys come just

> recently

> > diagnosed with H and are just starting or contemplating

> Testosterone

> > replacement. I think it is unfair to expect that those with

still

> > normal testicles but beginning H limit their concerns by posting

> less

> > frequently out of respect to those with hard core H who do not

> want to

> > hear their " lesser " problems. I suppose one could form their

own

>

> > group with only H issues similar to their own. Membership would

> be

> > quite limited I suspect, and perhaps worse is the fact that

those

> who

> > are new to H would not benefit from the experiences of the hard

> core

> > group. I like this forum the way it is right now, and I don't

> consider

> > it any inconvenience to wade through posts that don't

necessarily

> mimic

> > my situation. I sympathise with anyone with H.

> > norton

[Guest guest]

Let's see.

As an " older male " (yikes, 54 now) I abruptly came down with

hypogonadism only 13 months ago. From 9.5 on the 10 scale to a

zero...both with libido and erectile functioning... all in about two

weeks. Seems I had a " hardwire crash " with the HPA / HPAT Axis and

developed some sort of highly unusual excessive cortisol secretion

problem. Eventually labelled it as Pseduo Cushings. Along the way

somewhere was told that it caused the secondary (and possibly also

primary) hypogonadism.

So turned to this Board - and other Boards - not simply for support

but also as ONE source of information.

And, Jeez, I wish that it was just " simply " the " loss of libido " that

accompanied this " problem " .

Like with many (most?) others on this Board, it was also accompanied

by many severe mood disorders and - with some of us - physical

disorders also. Mine came with severe anxiety, not iniitally, but

finally also depression and then also with severe tinnitus, some form

of severe peripheral neuropathy type of pain (but that " isn't really

Peripheral Neuropathy... " ), etc., etc.

I know others have had complicating problems - like Greg - with other

hormonal issues like Thyroid levels cascading up and down... with all

of the mood disorder problems and physical problems that accompany

that type of problem!

You know what? I don't have any Thy problems with my hypogonadal

state. I don't even know that much about Ty problems, other than my

wife is very slightly hyper (on a medication only on certain days -

and then will probably be off it completely in 3 months). And a couple

of my in-laws are hypothy and hyperthy. But you know what. I

communicate with Greg and offer him advice on info that I do know

about and I research info for him... and mainly offer support.

And psychological problems, and all the gut wrenching pain that they

bring with them, and all the years (in some cases decades) guys had to

" bite the bullet' with those (apparently insignificant) pains?

Who wants to start with the education about that?

Phil?

Some of the other senior members who had those sufferings for such

long periods of times.... probably in some cases for more years than

you've been alive???

No, " zeybek " , you're right.

We should just structure this just around " your " version of hypogonadism.

No one else has a legitimate form of hypogonadism (Jeez, seems to me

that hypogonadism is hypogonadism) - or if they do it some sort of

" pain free version " .

DK,... I agree with you.

Larry

> > > I believe there is a group specifically for men with

> > erectile

> > > issues. I have been a member of this group for about a year and

> a

> > half

> > > or so and I have never expected that all or even a majority of

> the

> > > members had similar life experiences with hypogonadism as mine.

> We

> > are

> > > all very very different with varying degrees of H. Some like me

> > have

> > > suffered their entire life with it, and some guys come just

> > recently

> > > diagnosed with H and are just starting or contemplating

> > Testosterone

> > > replacement. I think it is unfair to expect that those with

> still

> > > normal testicles but beginning H limit their concerns by posting

> > less

> > > frequently out of respect to those with hard core H who do not

> > want to

> > > hear their " lesser " problems. I suppose one could form their

> own

> >

> > > group with only H issues similar to their own. Membership would

> > be

> > > quite limited I suspect, and perhaps worse is the fact that

> those

> > who

> > > are new to H would not benefit from the experiences of the hard

> > core

> > > group. I like this forum the way it is right now, and I don't

> > consider

> > > it any inconvenience to wade through posts that don't

> necessarily

> > mimic

> > > my situation. I sympathise with anyone with H.

> > > norton

[Guest guest]

You don't need to go with my definition of anything. You are 54. Did

you have normal testicular function all your life? Do you have

children? Did you have a normal puberty? Did you live your teenage

years? Have you been depressed and suicidal every day of your life

since your teenage years? I never said what you need is less but put

things in perspective.

You are 54, and if you answer yes to most of the questions I asked

above, you have nothing to complain about. Yes, that's what I think.

Sit down and shut the hell up. You know why? There are 16 year old

guys here who are sentenced to a life time of misery, and they know

it. So it's not about me deciding what is hypo but it's duration and

full effect. You have started experiencing hypo at age 54. Welcome

to hell. We have been living with it since age 16. Learn to show

some respect.

And don't you DARE EVER AND EVER compare your condition to a lifer

like some of us here, ok?

> > > > I believe there is a group specifically for men with

> > > erectile

> > > > issues. I have been a member of this group for about a year

and

> > a

> > > half

> > > > or so and I have never expected that all or even a majority

of

> > the

> > > > members had similar life experiences with hypogonadism as

mine.

> > We

> > > are

> > > > all very very different with varying degrees of H. Some

like me

> > > have

> > > > suffered their entire life with it, and some guys come just

> > > recently

> > > > diagnosed with H and are just starting or contemplating

> > > Testosterone

> > > > replacement. I think it is unfair to expect that those with

> > still

> > > > normal testicles but beginning H limit their concerns by

posting

> > > less

> > > > frequently out of respect to those with hard core H who do

not

> > > want to

> > > > hear their " lesser " problems. I suppose one could form

their

> > own

> > >

> > > > group with only H issues similar to their own. Membership

would

> > > be

> > > > quite limited I suspect, and perhaps worse is the fact that

> > those

> > > who

> > > > are new to H would not benefit from the experiences of the

hard

> > > core

> > > > group. I like this forum the way it is right now, and I

don't

> > > consider

> > > > it any inconvenience to wade through posts that don't

> > necessarily

> > > mimic

> > > > my situation. I sympathise with anyone with H.

> > > > norton

[Guest guest]

That's awful cute.

Who started out with comparing conditions and their miseries?

What medications are you on?

Let's see.

I have Xanax XR (anxiety and tinnitus), Remeron (depression and

cortisol excesses), Ambien (sleep aid - some nights Restoril),

Neurontin (peripheral neuropathies), and then of course the TRT therapy.

And I'm sure that I'm not the only individual who has it " so lucky " ...

I think that Mark put it very distinctly in his recent posting:

QUOTE:

However, suffering is suffering, and just because someone else's

suffering is worse does not wipe away one's suffering. For example, I

will sometimes get the " at least you don't have (insert horrifying

malady here) " routine. I am grateful that that is true, but it does

not mean that I am not suffering, and that my own health problems

aren't a pain in the ass to deal with.

END QUOTE

P.S. And, no, I don't intend to " sit down and shut the hell up " ....

And as far as respect, I show it as it is given.

> > > > > I believe there is a group specifically for men with

> > > > erectile

> > > > > issues. I have been a member of this group for about a year

> and

> > > a

> > > > half

> > > > > or so and I have never expected that all or even a majority

> of

> > > the

> > > > > members had similar life experiences with hypogonadism as

> mine.

> > > We

> > > > are

> > > > > all very very different with varying degrees of H. Some

> like me

> > > > have

> > > > > suffered their entire life with it, and some guys come just

> > > > recently

> > > > > diagnosed with H and are just starting or contemplating

> > > > Testosterone

> > > > > replacement. I think it is unfair to expect that those with

> > > still

> > > > > normal testicles but beginning H limit their concerns by

> posting

> > > > less

> > > > > frequently out of respect to those with hard core H who do

> not

> > > > want to

> > > > > hear their " lesser " problems. I suppose one could form

> their

> > > own

> > > >

> > > > > group with only H issues similar to their own. Membership

> would

> > > > be

> > > > > quite limited I suspect, and perhaps worse is the fact that

> > > those

> > > > who

> > > > > are new to H would not benefit from the experiences of the

> hard

> > > > core

> > > > > group. I like this forum the way it is right now, and I

> don't

> > > > consider

> > > > > it any inconvenience to wade through posts that don't

> > > necessarily

> > > > mimic

> > > > > my situation. I sympathise with anyone with H.

> > > > > norton

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 04:04:34 -0000, you wrote:

>Sit down and shut the hell up.

I don't think this attitude is appropriate for this forum.

Please find a way to express your frustrations with respect for

others.

All you are doing is diminishing the respect others might have for you

and eroding the chances you will get help from them.

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 04:04:34 -0000, you wrote:

>You are 54, and if you answer yes to most of the questions I asked

>above, you have nothing to complain about. Yes, that's what I think.

>Sit down and shut the hell up. You know why? There are 16 year old

>guys here who are sentenced to a life time of misery, and they know

>it. So it's not about me deciding what is hypo but it's duration and

>full effect. You have started experiencing hypo at age 54. Welcome

>to hell. We have been living with it since age 16. Learn to show

>some respect.

>

>And don't you DARE EVER AND EVER compare your condition to a lifer

>like some of us here, ok?

Go on feeling sorry for yourself and expressing it in hostility then.

Here's a clue though - many many here have been through a lot. I spent

two years getting diagnosed. They spent time evaluating me for bone

cancer, liver cancer and brain cancer. I spent a good deal of that two

years feeling under a death sentence and putting my affairs in order

to say goodbye to my kids, my wife, and friends and figuring out what

things I needed to take care of so as not to burden them . Now yeah I

had a wife and kids, and I counted myself lucky but that made it

harder to deal with what I thought were surely my last days. (I didn't

tell them.) But what I did not do is attack others and get jealous

over those who's problems seemed less important TO ME.

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

[Guest guest]

Hey, you know what? Fuck you. How's about that? You think my life has

been a plate of berries? YOU try living it. When I was 12 I got run over

by a fucking dump truck. So FUCK you. You don't know shit about normal,

so don't front like you do. You don't know my issues, so don't think

you're one TINY bit worthier than I am. You just keep taking that T and

hope it makes you a man on the INSIDE.

Louis

> Message: 2

> Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 04:04:34 -0000

> From: " brand_recognition " <zeybek@...>

> Subject: Re: A bit frustrated - so ask for more support

>

> You don't need to go with my definition of anything. You are 54. Did

> you have normal testicular function all your life? Do you have

> children? Did you have a normal puberty? Did you live your teenage

> years? Have you been depressed and suicidal every day of your life

> since your teenage years? I never said what you need is less but put

> things in perspective.

>

> You are 54, and if you answer yes to most of the questions I asked

> above, you have nothing to complain about. Yes, that's what I think.

> Sit down and shut the hell up. You know why? There are 16 year old

> guys here who are sentenced to a life time of misery, and they know

> it. So it's not about me deciding what is hypo but it's duration and

> full effect. You have started experiencing hypo at age 54. Welcome

> to hell. We have been living with it since age 16. Learn to show

> some respect.

>

> And don't you DARE EVER AND EVER compare your condition to a lifer

> like some of us here, ok?

>

>

>

>

>

--

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.10/43 - Release Date: 7/6/2005

[Guest guest]

i think its important that we understand what this website is for. i just

joined it

a month or so ago, but i can only assume that it was meant to help one

another. i have and will have hypogonadism my whole life, but i am NOT

saying that my " suffering " is worse than anyone else's. yea, its a really hard

thing to go through and its something that i have to deal with everyday. some

days are better than others. i dont want to be lumped into a group of people

that have classic (or life long) hypogonadism that feel its necessary to throw

things in other people's faces. i feel like some of these threads have been

really disrespectful. i re-read my posts and hope that i havent come across as

extremely bitter. i think that there are certain things that cut deep within

those

of us that have this our whole life, ie: " feeling like a man. " and im sure

there

are things that affect those that have age induced hypogonadism that i

wouldnt understand. if anything i think that we can learn from each other. i

cant be certain but i can only assume that for those of us that seek to feel

normal (on a T level at least) need to hear from those that have had a normal

T level at some point in their life. i understand that it is different for

every man,

but you get my point. i guess all i am saying is that i dont think anyone here

needs this kind of negative energy in a place where we go to for help. im sure

i dont. if we cant seek solace in this website, where can we?

brandon.

> Hey, you know what? Fuck you. How's about that? You think my life has

> been a plate of berries? YOU try living it. When I was 12 I got run over

> by a fucking dump truck. So FUCK you. You don't know shit about normal,

> so don't front like you do. You don't know my issues, so don't think

> you're one TINY bit worthier than I am. You just keep taking that T and

> hope it makes you a man on the INSIDE.

>

> Louis

>

> > Message: 2

> > Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 04:04:34 -0000

> > From: " brand_recognition " <zeybek@h...>

> > Subject: Re: A bit frustrated - so ask for more support

> >

> > You don't need to go with my definition of anything. You are 54. Did

> > you have normal testicular function all your life? Do you have

> > children? Did you have a normal puberty? Did you live your teenage

> > years? Have you been depressed and suicidal every day of your life

> > since your teenage years? I never said what you need is less but put

> > things in perspective.

> >

> > You are 54, and if you answer yes to most of the questions I asked

> > above, you have nothing to complain about. Yes, that's what I think.

> > Sit down and shut the hell up. You know why? There are 16 year old

> > guys here who are sentenced to a life time of misery, and they know

> > it. So it's not about me deciding what is hypo but it's duration and

> > full effect. You have started experiencing hypo at age 54. Welcome

> > to hell. We have been living with it since age 16. Learn to show

> > some respect.

> >

> > And don't you DARE EVER AND EVER compare your condition to a lifer

> > like some of us here, ok?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> --

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.10/43 - Release Date: 7/6/2005

[Guest guest]

This guy needs to get get real!!!

I was born with an undecended testicle, fused ribs a malformation of

the spine, an enlarged heart, an enlarged left kidney, alpha 1

antitrypsin deficiency. I had liver cancer at 17 and had a 10 and a

half hour operation to remove several tumors and two thirds of my

liver and gallbladder. I had follow up chemotherapy that has led to

nerve neuropathy, balance and hearing problems. At 25 I had my

second primary cancer, this time bladder cancer.

My hypogonadism was undiagnosed and unrecognized for many years, I

now have osteopenia/boarderline osteoporosis in my spine and

osteochondritis in my arm- I'm 31.

And in the UK many people struggle to be adequately treated for

hypogonadism- the US is light years ahead (although I am now getting

help)

I moan too much for my own good, I feel myself doing it, but I never

ever try to downgrade other people's problems.

Neither should you!!!

> > > > > > I believe there is a group specifically for men

with

> > > > > erectile

> > > > > > issues. I have been a member of this group for about a

year

> > and

> > > > a

> > > > > half

> > > > > > or so and I have never expected that all or even a

majority

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > members had similar life experiences with hypogonadism as

> > mine.

> > > > We

> > > > > are

> > > > > > all very very different with varying degrees of H. Some

> > like me

> > > > > have

> > > > > > suffered their entire life with it, and some guys come

just

> > > > > recently

> > > > > > diagnosed with H and are just starting or contemplating

> > > > > Testosterone

> > > > > > replacement. I think it is unfair to expect that those

with

> > > > still

> > > > > > normal testicles but beginning H limit their concerns by

> > posting

> > > > > less

> > > > > > frequently out of respect to those with hard core H who

do

> > not

> > > > > want to

> > > > > > hear their " lesser " problems. I suppose one could form

> > their

> > > > own

> > > > >

> > > > > > group with only H issues similar to their own.

Membership

> > would

> > > > > be

> > > > > > quite limited I suspect, and perhaps worse is the fact

that

> > > > those

> > > > > who

> > > > > > are new to H would not benefit from the experiences of

the

> > hard

> > > > > core

> > > > > > group. I like this forum the way it is right now, and I

> > don't

> > > > > consider

> > > > > > it any inconvenience to wade through posts that don't

> > > > necessarily

> > > > > mimic

> > > > > > my situation. I sympathise with anyone with H.

> > > > > > norton

[Guest guest]

Glad you are back Chris- I was concerned that last I read you were

getting nowhere with the UK health system, but it sounds like things

are getting better. ?? Hope you are doing well.

> This guy needs to get get real!!!

>

> I was born with an undecended testicle, fused ribs a malformation of

> the spine, an enlarged heart, an enlarged left kidney, alpha 1

> antitrypsin deficiency. I had liver cancer at 17 and had a 10 and a

> half hour operation to remove several tumors and two thirds of my

> liver and gallbladder. I had follow up chemotherapy that has led to

> nerve neuropathy, balance and hearing problems. At 25 I had my

> second primary cancer, this time bladder cancer.

>

> My hypogonadism was undiagnosed and unrecognized for many years, I

> now have osteopenia/boarderline osteoporosis in my spine and

> osteochondritis in my arm- I'm 31.

>

> And in the UK many people struggle to be adequately treated for

> hypogonadism- the US is light years ahead (although I am now getting

> help)

>

> I moan too much for my own good, I feel myself doing it, but I never

> ever try to downgrade other people's problems.

>

> Neither should you!!!

[Guest guest]

Hi

Of course you are totally correct.

One part of the newer computer/Internet age is flaming and the quickness by

which discussions can go astray. However, I feel we all sometimes need to

also understand that some endocrine-patients will by the nature of their

illnesses have periods of depression and extremes. I visited a London

hospital at the beginning of June and a Growth Hormone patient was sitting

next to me on the specialist endocrinology-ward for blood tests (in fact a

week of blood tests). A nurde was collecting breakfast dishes from those

allowed breakfasts or having breakfasts and suddenly this patient wanted to

explode supposedly because the nurse took her plate whilst she was still

chewing although nothing was on the plate. The patiet then said " Oh sorry I

just feel so angry and feel like exploding " . These symptoms are

helplessness, frustration etc do cause occasional problems and patients need

to be aware of them and try and control them but I think we also have to try

resolve any discussion problems in a way that we can all learn from them

albeit distressing sometimes.

Whilst writing I feel I want to express something about yesterday's London

terrorist attack. I hope that of the ca 700 injuried people from this group

are not directly affected although some do live in London and I did until

fairly recently.

Have a good day

Re: A bit frustrated - so ask for more support

>> >

>> > You don't need to go with my definition of anything. You are 54. Did

>> > you have normal testicular function all your life? Do you have

>> > children? Did you have a normal puberty? Did you live your teenage

>> > years? Have you been depressed and suicidal every day of your life

>> > since your teenage years? I never said what you need is less but put

>> > things in perspective.

>> >

>> > You are 54, and if you answer yes to most of the questions I asked

>> > above, you have nothing to complain about. Yes, that's what I think.

>> > Sit down and shut the hell up. You know why? There are 16 year old

>> > guys here who are sentenced to a life time of misery, and they know

>> > it. So it's not about me deciding what is hypo but it's duration and

>> > full effect. You have started experiencing hypo at age 54. Welcome

>> > to hell. We have been living with it since age 16. Learn to show

>> > some respect.

>> >

>> > And don't you DARE EVER AND EVER compare your condition to a lifer

>> > like some of us here, ok?

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>>

>>

>> --

>> No virus found in this outgoing message.

>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

>> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.10/43 - Release Date: 7/6/2005

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Chis

Good to have you back-onboard. Missed your inputs.

Speak to you soon, I hope

Re: A bit frustrated - so ask for more support

>This guy needs to get get real!!!

>

>I was born with an undecended testicle, fused ribs a malformation of

>the spine, an enlarged heart, an enlarged left kidney, alpha 1

>antitrypsin deficiency. I had liver cancer at 17 and had a 10 and a

>half hour operation to remove several tumors and two thirds of my

>liver and gallbladder. I had follow up chemotherapy that has led to

>nerve neuropathy, balance and hearing problems. At 25 I had my

>second primary cancer, this time bladder cancer.

>

>My hypogonadism was undiagnosed and unrecognized for many years, I

>now have osteopenia/boarderline osteoporosis in my spine and

>osteochondritis in my arm- I'm 31.

>

>And in the UK many people struggle to be adequately treated for

>hypogonadism- the US is light years ahead (although I am now getting

>help)

>

>I moan too much for my own good, I feel myself doing it, but I never

>ever try to downgrade other people's problems.

>

>Neither should you!!!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>> > > > > > I believe there is a group specifically for men

>with

>> > > > > erectile

>> > > > > > issues. I have been a member of this group for about a

>year

>> > and

>> > > > a

>> > > > > half

>> > > > > > or so and I have never expected that all or even a

>majority

>> > of

>> > > > the

>> > > > > > members had similar life experiences with hypogonadism as

>> > mine.

>> > > > We

>> > > > > are

>> > > > > > all very very different with varying degrees of H. Some

>> > like me

>> > > > > have

>> > > > > > suffered their entire life with it, and some guys come

>just

>> > > > > recently

>> > > > > > diagnosed with H and are just starting or contemplating

>> > > > > Testosterone

>> > > > > > replacement. I think it is unfair to expect that those

>with

>> > > > still

>> > > > > > normal testicles but beginning H limit their concerns by

>> > posting

>> > > > > less

>> > > > > > frequently out of respect to those with hard core H who

>do

>> > not

>> > > > > want to

>> > > > > > hear their " lesser " problems. I suppose one could form

>> > their

>> > > > own

>> > > > >

>> > > > > > group with only H issues similar to their own.

>Membership

>> > would

>> > > > > be

>> > > > > > quite limited I suspect, and perhaps worse is the fact

>that

>> > > > those

>> > > > > who

>> > > > > > are new to H would not benefit from the experiences of

>the

>> > hard

>> > > > > core

>> > > > > > group. I like this forum the way it is right now, and I

>> > don't

>> > > > > consider

>> > > > > > it any inconvenience to wade through posts that don't

>> > > > necessarily

>> > > > > mimic

>> > > > > > my situation. I sympathise with anyone with H.

>> > > > > > norton

>

>

>

>

>

>